Yet Another Cycling Forum
Off Topic => The Pub => Food & Drink => Topic started by: LEE on 14 September, 2011, 11:40:32 am
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I'm going start grinding my own coffee beans (because all the anecdotes seem to point to that being the best way to get a nice fresh cup).
I've searched on many grinders and it seems that "Burr" grinders are the best.
They grind for a pre-set result like a pepper-mill rather than smash the beans with rotating blades and hope for the best.
I've settled on this De Longhi "Burr" grinder (£33 or so) as it seems to get great reviews for the price.
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJZxjasZXyxJ7TfPHGXrcnoxx-HKzmGOLQLNCAjsF8DhIKONcqz9rthA)
And this Delonghi Compact 15 Bar Pump Espresso/ Cappuccino Maker
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/public/kzuR6eon9cp-FagturiO9q87Y8hpg51vuqS4Ynv5LzmsNJCXhPQgCTIiF6aY9omniH_6Isc3Mcktct_tJlcHF0yRaON-leXj2kmxTBEXJ46PoCJmSQZJnqQ68xWhzsco3ZjYg6MgKjCdyaS4l9J1qLrY6CQcTjY6Uwtf7Tdy-J6iuBYBvpVZcVwO) which is about £55
I can't find a combination of the two which get as good reviews for a total price of about £90.
Any opinions? (I'm really not interested in spending several hundred pounds. At first I will still be using the grounds in my drip-filter machine and then I'll buy the Espresso machine.
Any views on Stove-Top coffee makers? I've always wanted one (they seem ubiquitous in French supermarkets) but never tasted the results.
I'm looking for that perfect "Americano" (or what normal people call "A proper cup of coffee") rather than an actual Espresso.
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I have some opinions, yes. I expect others will be along shortly.
Don't skimp on the grinder! You can make great coffee with fresh beans and a coffee maker costing a few quid, but if your beans aren't ground right, your coffee will always be lacking. I found this fabulous spreadsheet of grinders on the UK Coffee Forums and I generally agree on what they're saying:
http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?2956-Grinder-Prices
We bought a Rancilio Rocky, but that was mainly because we make short and long coffee and it's got an easily adjustable grind setting. Otherwise, just for espresso, I was set on the Iberital MC2, which is much cheaper and probably just as good. If you can't afford the cheapest electric burr grinder on this list, buy a manual ceramic burr grinder (I have the Hario slim mill for use at work and although it's not quick, it grinds fine enough for any kind of coffee you could want to make).
If a good grinder has blown the budget then don't buy an espresso machine. At home, we have Tewdric's old Rancilio Silvia and although it's an awesome bit of kit and makes espresso to die for (on the occasions that the coffee gods are smiling on me and everything goes to plan) I drink more coffee from my twenty quid Aeropress than I do from the Silvia.
For the purest and loveliest coffee experience, you don't even need an Aeropress. I also make pourover coffee with a simple paper filter and once you've got your technique right, pourover is delicious.
Some more reading on the subject:
http://boingboing.net/2010/09/30/perfecting-my-travel.html
I very much doubt you'll be happy with that coffee maker. Seriously - if you're only looking to spend a hundred quid, then get a hundred quid grinder and a few quid's worth of paper filters and a drip cone. You'll make better coffee from the start that way and you'll always have the option of a second hand Gaggia or something at a later date.
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On the odd occasion when I buy beans and grind them myself (I usually CBA) I use my trusty wall mounted Spong. Works fine.
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I've recently got my self that grinder, along with a Gaggia Cubika Plus.
I'm fairly happy with both for a first toe in the water of home coffee.
Of the two the grinder would be the one that gets upgraded first I think, but for now it's just fine for the price paid.
It's all a bit of a faff to start, but we seem to be getting fairly consistent, decent coffee and getting the hang of it.
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Don't buy an Espresso machine too quickly until you know a lot more about making coffee. To start pretty cheaply buy a ceramic burr hand grinder, a 2 cup filter preferably ceramic and Mellita paper filters plus some decent beans. Temperature of the water used plus grind size is the key to brewing a nice cup. Pasteurized milk is generally better but don't overheat it.
Do a search for videos as there many available on Vimeo and Youtube and your knowledge will grow quickly.
Have fun.
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I'd agree with Charlotte. Get a good grinder, but not the Iberital MC2 ( it is great for espresso, but a pain in the arse to change the grind settings)
Get s cheap plastic cone filter and some papers. Grind quite coarsely if it is s light coffee like s Kenyan and start by making it weak and adjust until you hit your preferred strength. Good light coffees are better made weaker or you lose the floral qualities.
For dark roast stuff try Indonesian. Make it a bit stronger.
Don't buy that espresso machine. Those things are shit, they don't make proper espresso and you'd be better off with s stove top. Anyone who tells you different is a cunt.
Get beans from supplier such as Hasbeans. Much better than supermarket
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You're like one of these people who ask us cyclists "I want to buy a mountain bike, is this one for £120 good? I don't want to spend more." ;)
That's the espresso machine equivalent of a BSO, frankly. The cheap materials and construction will become apparent within weeks.
If you just want to make Americanos and don't want to become obsessed with crema, spend £100 on a better-made grinder and get a Bialetti Moka pot.
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Since I no longer drink coffee :'( I can't really offer a useful opinion on this. All I will say on the subject is that you want to be careful, as you definitely want a Grinder, not a Grindr. Different thing entirely.
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I've recently bought one of the stainless steel Bialetti Moka pots. Am very pleased with it - cost around £33 from ebay. Currently using Lavazza ready ground espresso coffee which makes a decent cup, but am enjoying reading this thread as I'm considering getting a grinder as well.
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On the odd occasion when I buy beans and grind them myself (I usually CBA) I use my trusty wall mounted Spong. Works fine.
:thumbsup:
I'm using my parents' old Spong - it contains a massive hand-cranked burr and will pulverise beans to espresso fineness, or crumble them for filters equally happily. Fresh-ground beans from that in a no-name (but classically proportioned) stovetop espresso pot make a very drinkable coffee, though lacking crema - which is absolutely no problem at all for those who add milk or water. Even on its own, the end product is waaayy better than a lot of bought "espresso".
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People get themselves too frothy about coffee. It's become a bit of middle-class obsession. Heaven knows, I get dragged into enough kitchens that seem to have been built around a coffee machine that looks and sounds like a dangerously over-pressured steam locomotive. It hoots, and hisses, and coughs up a shot of something that looks like tubercular sputum. Oh they look so happy, like they just milked an angel, as they tentatively hand you the teeny cup. I tell you, it mostly tastes like caffeinated grit, and have to get out that grin (the one you normally keep around for those occasions when ugly babies are thrust at you for comment).
If you must drink espresso, then you need a burr grinder. Otherwise, it doesn't much matter, you don't need to grind coffee down to individual atoms to make a pot of filter coffee. I have a Cusinart coffee robot that does everything other than drink the stuff. Makes a perfect pot of coffee and could take SkyNet in a robo-fight.
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Whether you agree with it or not, this could be Post of the Day. ;D
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I've got that coffee maker. It's pretty good. Main thing with it is getting the tamping right on the coffee. I don't grind my own very often but mainly use Illy espresso. You can get a tad obsessive about these things.
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I've got that coffee maker. It's pretty good.
Don't say I didn't warn you....
click (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFX5rZZzCp4&sns=em)
No disrespect
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I have some opinions, yes.
Your sage opinions have just relieved me of the burden of 10s of £. I'd never heard of the Aeropress, nor thought of buying a hand grinder before reading your post. A little bit of research and it appears these will be perfect for the office, where currently I rely on tea and "ground coffee" from the admittedly more luxurious than most hot beverage machine. What with Breakfast Bomb on order as well, I expect to be very productive at work in a couple of days. As the French say, merci beaucoup.
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For a noob, aeropress or drip cone?
Been on a caffeine (and alcohol) fast since the beginning of the month, and will break the fast after the MK-Wales and back 600 in mid Oct. Current plan is to have Has Bean send me a Porlex Ceramic Burr Coffee Grinder, some Breakfast Bomb, and either HARIO CERAMIC V60 DRIPPER or Aeropress.
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Your sage opinions have just relieved me of the burden of 10s of £....
... As the French say, merci beaucoup.
Most welcome. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do every day :)
For a noob, aeropress or drip cone?
I'd say Aeropress. For three reasons:
1. It's easier to make a good cup of coffee in an Aeropress - the technique is more repeatable.
2. Although a drip cone is cheaper than an Aeropress, to make really good coffee in one, you'll need a pour kettle so you can spend at least thirty seconds or so pouring the water in really slowly. A pour kettle + drip cone will probably cost you more than option (1).
3. An Aeropress is more versatile. You can make short coffee (an espresso-like drink, if you will) in it. You can also dilute this to make a longer Americano style coffee. With the drip cone and kettle method, you're limited to long coffee.
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For a noob, aeropress or drip cone?
Been on a caffeine (and alcohol) fast since the beginning of the month, and will break the fast after the MK-Wales and back 600 in mid Oct. Current plan is to have Has Bean send me a Porlex Ceramic Burr Coffee Grinder, some Breakfast Bomb, and either HARIO CERAMIC V60 DRIPPER or Aeropress.
I looked into a Hario dripper but decided it didn't suit my own needs. As an aside, you also get plastic versions that are around £10 cheaper (HasBean don't stock, funnily enough). Simply google "Hario Plastic v60" restricting to UK. Actually, I'll save you the time
http://www.espresso-products.co.uk/hario-v60-02-plastic-coffee-dripper-vd-02t-225-p.asp
(can't vouch for the store as I've not ordered from it).
PS: It's sounds like your going through the same thought process I did a couple of weeks ago, also being a n00b. With 10 days under my belt, I'm finding the Aeropress a joy (for office, it is perfect, as it is relatively quick and cleans really easily). My taste buds prefers Four Bean rather than Breakfast Bomb. I'm thinking of grinding beans at home and taking into work, rather than relying on the ~(Hario) hand grinder (which does a good job, but one needs to be patient - it takes about 3-5 minutes of intense work to get two shots worth of coffee).
PPS: the Aeropress comes with filters. I didn't realise this and bought a separate pack on top when I ordered. Just saying so you don't make the same mistake.
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I've seen a stainless steel permanent filter for an Aeropress on thinkgeek.com, I dunno if somewhere in the UK sells them.
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http://www.creamsupplies.co.uk/stainless-steel-filter-for-aeropress-/prod_2208.html?category=226 :thumbsup:
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http://www.creamsupplies.co.uk/stainless-steel-filter-for-aeropress-/prod_2208.html?category=226 :thumbsup:
Problem with that is that I won't be awake enough to remember to remove it from the coffee puck before ejecting it into the office bin until I've drunk the coffee I've just made.
Another happy Aeropress and Breakfast Bomb user here. (well, after a couple of cups this morning I am).
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Oh dear... (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/features/the-ten-best-espresso-makers-2366058.html?action=Gallery&ino=7)
(http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/dynamic/00654/Ten-Best-7_654536s.jpg)
£400 more because of a bit of branding... :facepalm:
A fool and his money, as they say.
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For the absolute beginner just putting their toes into coffee making as it were. I don't think a pour over kettle is essential for starters.
A hand burr grinder, cup filter, Melitta filters and nice beans are all one needs plus of course. lots of practice. There are many tips on the Internet plus various video's.
I must say the Aeropress sounds rather interesting but so far have never seen one in the Shops where I live.
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It's a bit sad that the Rapha-branded E61 (a decent option, but not exceptional) seems to be the only serious machine in the lineup.
Where's the LM GS3? The Synesso Cyncra? Anything from La Spaziale? Colour me disappointed. Given those choices, I'd probably end up with the moka pot.
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Now thinking of the Porlex hand grinder for work (damn you all!)
Anyone used one - how long to grind about 20g of beans?
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Now thinking of the Porlex hand grinder for work (damn you all!)
Anyone used one - how long to grind about 20g of beans?
20g of beans? That's one mother of a breakfast shot, Tony :D
My Hario mill takes about 150 winds (so maybe between ninety seconds to two minutes) to grind me enough coffee for a double shot in the Aeropress. That's about 14g and a pretty stiff hit of the nasty first thing in the am...
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Now thinking of the Porlex hand grinder for work (damn you all!)
Anyone used one - how long to grind about 20g of beans?
Depends on the grind size of course. For pour over filter coffee my Kyocera two cup ceramic burr hand grinder needs about 90 to 110 turns of the handle. The difference being the blend of beans and how they are roasted.
I have no experience of the Porlex or Hario but imagine they are fairly similar.
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I find myself using my Swissgold one cup coffee filter more than my Aeropress or Pavoni espressso machine. It's less faff and makes good coffee. The one cu unit includes a "water regulator" which would appear to fulfll the function of a pour over kettle.
http://www.anothercoffee.co.uk/products/item110310.aspx (http://www.anothercoffee.co.uk/products/item110310.aspx)
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Damn you all.
No thanks to you lot, today via Mr Postie I recieved a Porlex mini grinder and an Aeropress .....
About an hour ago, armed with instructions from Has beans, 17g Union revalation blend coffeee beans and some hot (but not boiling) water I made my first Aeropress 'espresso'.
It was unbelievably delicious.
I'm still flying around the ceiling.
I need to speak with my Doctor in the morning about doubling the dose of my Beta-blockers.
PS - Brekkie bomb and Jailbreak are in the post ....
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It was unbelievably delicious.
I'm still flying around the ceiling.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
PS - Brekkie bomb and Jailbreak are in the post ....
If one shot of Revelation has you "flying around the ceiling", may I suggest handling the Breakfast Bomb with extreme caution...
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(http://assets.caffesociety.co.uk/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/256x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/h/shop_model_productimage-226.jpg)
I now have one of these beasties in my kitchen. It's a Mazzer, and cost and unfeasibly silly amount of money, but....
.......the espresso is noticeably better than when grinding with the £120 MC2 I used for many years.
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Just catching up on this thread cos I'm considering getting a grinder. Some good and useful advice on that score - thanks.
However, I'm somewhat surprised at the number of comments advocating the use of paper filters from people who I thought considered themselves serious coffee enthusiasts.
Don't get me wrong, I mostly drink filter coffee and I would definitely agree that you're better off sticking to filter rather than waste money on a crappy espresso machine. But I thought paper filters were a real no-no.
I use a Swissgold permanent filter myself, and although I don't consider myself an aficionado, I reckon I can tell the difference between coffee made with that and coffee made with a paper filter.
Am I only fooling myself?
d.
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Am I only fooling myself?
I can't say. For myself, when I want long coffee (espresso isn't always what I crave) I am quite fond of pourover using Hario paper filters in one of their plastic cones.
I always, always, always wash it through with boiling water first, though. It warms up the filter cone and cup and gets rid of any bleachy nastiness from the paper.
Also, I hate washing permenant filters - with the paper, you just chuck and go :)
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Also, I hate washing permenant filters - with the paper, you just chuck and go :)
If convenience overrides all other concerns, wouldn't you be better off drinking instant? ;)
d.
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It was unbelievably delicious.
I'm still flying around the ceiling.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
PS - Brekkie bomb and Jailbreak are in the post ....
If one shot of Revelation has you "flying around the ceiling", may I suggest handling the Breakfast Bomb with extreme caution...
EEK - The Bomb has landed .....
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To my taste, certain coffees are suited to certain methods of preparation and some need a light-dose and some sort of unpressurised filtration. I'm pretty happy with bog-standard paper filters and a cheap plastic cone. My favourite light roast coffees taste a bit papery anyway, and I'm not aware of the paper adding anything. Never tried a swissgold though.
Vac pots seem to be making a comeback, although now they are called 'siphons' ;)
I smashed mine about 6 years ago and haven't replaced it. I think they have the edge on filters for producing clarity of flavours but certainly the Cona I had needed a hefty dose and was time-consuming to use and clean.
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I'm not aware of the paper adding anything.
Aiui, the problem is more what the paper takes away than what it adds.
My experience is that the permanent filter produces a slightly fuller body and stronger flavour, but I'm willing to accept that this may be an illusion.
d.
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I use Melitta filters and feel my coffee is fine.
But I like mine with foamed milk which presumably could obscure any paper taste should there be any.
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Aiui, the problem is more what the paper takes away than what it adds.
That's my understanding. In particular, absorption of oils into paper filters. It's quite plausible that this will vary according to type of paper. Charlotte's pre-wetting approach might help too (and will certainly improve the temperature profile).
I'd say there are probably too many variables in filter coffee preparation (some of them quite subjective) to say one method is optimum. Personally, I love my Cona vac pot (bought the day I broke my old Bodum one): consistently nice smooth coffee, lab-glassware looks, and for me pretty easy use and cleaning. I accept others will disagree, especially about that last one.
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It certainly is subjective, and anything I post comes with a hefty YMMV caveat.
I am quite tempted by a new vac pot, but I think it might be pushing the limits of my hugely indulgent wife.
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I think I have a bodum vacuum pot. At least, I assume it is what it is.... It's been in the box and never used since I was given it several years ago, as a christmas present. Funnily enough I actually took it down from the top of the cupboard yesterday and gave it a dose of looking at. Might even see what happens if I use it....
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I think I have a bodum vacuum pot. At least, I assume it is what it is.... It's been in the box and never used since I was given it several years ago, as a christmas present. Funnily enough I actually took it down from the top of the cupboard yesterday and gave it a dose of looking at. Might even see what happens if I use it....
Definitely worth a go if you like a nice clean, smooth, cup of filter coffee. From memory:
- The documentation which came with mine suggested leaving it on the heat for a ludicrously long time after the water has gone up to the top chamber. Something like 7 minutes, IIRC. Obviously adjust to taste, but I'd suggest starting with rather less than that!
- The plastic "filter" was a bit problematic, and had a tendency to clog (i.e. 90% of your coffee is stuck in the top chamber, nothing happening!). Grinding coarser helped, but the thing did fail from time to time for no readily-apparent reason. Don't be too discouraged if this happens. Incidentally, I've never had this problem with my Cona, and I'm 99% sure that the Cona glass rod filter would fit in the Bodum pot...
Just give me a shout if you've got any questions about it.
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It was unbelievably delicious.
I'm still flying around the ceiling.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
PS - Brekkie bomb and Jailbreak are in the post ....
If one shot of Revelation has you "flying around the ceiling", may I suggest handling the Breakfast Bomb with extreme caution...
I'm on my first 'Bomb' right now ... I may be some time 8)
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I have an entry level Delonghi espresso maker [model 330 s I think] and it's gone on the blink, water leaking from the bit where the coffee holder clips in. Anyone had any luck getting something like this serviced?
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I have an entry level Delonghi espresso maker [model 330 s I think] and it's gone on the blink, water leaking from the bit where the coffee holder clips in. Anyone had any luck getting something like this serviced?
First thought is that it might just be some coffee grounds left on the gasket where the portafilter seats. Careful cleaning might be all that's needed.
If not, it could be a failing gasket. Don't know the specific model you're talking about, but they're generally quick and easy to replace.
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What Dasmoth said - new gaskets and shower screens are cheap and easy to fit IME with Rancilios.
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I have an entry level Delonghi espresso maker [model 330 s I think] and it's gone on the blink, water leaking from the bit where the coffee holder clips in. Anyone had any luck getting something like this serviced?
First thought is that it might just be some coffee grounds left on the gasket where the portafilter seats. Careful cleaning might be all that's needed.
If not, it could be a failing gasket. Don't know the specific model you're talking about, but they're generally quick and easy to replace.
Thing is water is leaking out when the heater is on but the actual water dispenser is turned off, so there should be no water coming out of the thing whether the coffee holder [portafilter?] is in place or not. When I switch the pump on to deliver water it pours coffee and clear water comes from above, when I turn the pump off the water continues to drip out until I turn the main switch off. And I'm not talking little drips, I left it turned on the other day and it emptied the whole water reservoir over my kitchen worktop.
Not that I've written your suggestions off, I haven't looked at the thing close enough to really understand the path the water takes on its way to the cup. I've already ordered some descaler and I'll look at the gaskets first chance I get.
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That's a bit worrying. There's probably (but can't find much hard spec information for this machine...) some kind of solenoid-controlled valve between the boiler and the grouphead, and if that's gummed open, there might be a problem. Professional and enthusiast machines with three-way valves are designed to be backflushed (lots of information on the web about this), which -- amongst other things -- keeps the valve clean. I'm reluctant to recommend backflushing this machine without knowing more about how it's plumbed up, though.
Do you heave a solenoid clicking when you turn the brew switch on/off?
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Just tried it without the coffee holder in place. When I turn on the main power switch water starts dripping out, a drip every second or two. Continues to do so until I turn the power off. No audible clicks.
I can't imagine how it could possible be drawing water from the reservoir though, surely there's no pump in action until I actually turn it on? Maybe it just emptied its contents over the worktop when the reservoir was already very low and I imagined the rest. Sure looked like a lot of water though when I was cleaning it up.
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If there is a solenoid, it ought to click when you press the brew switch. No click suggests either "no solenoid" or "something wrong". If there isn't a solenoid, a few drips are probably to be expected.
Do you get more drips when it's in steaming mode?
It's possible there's a water-level sensor in the boiler and it automatically runs the pump for a few seconds when the boiler gets low.
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I can't hear any clicks other than the switch itself.
I've just discovered something though, contrary to what I said earlier the dripping doesn't start until after I've switched the pump on. So when turned on everything is as it should be, then it delivers the coffee but doesn't shut off the water supply to the dispenser properly. Also when I said before that there is clean water coming out at the same time as the coffee that must imply that the water is coming from somewhere other than the bit that goes into the coffee spout.
Following your other suggestion I discovered something else, once the water has been dripping for a while the top plate gets stupidly hot, almost burned myself when I tried to turn the steam knob. Much hotter than normal. When steam is coming out the dripping stops but starts again as soon as I turn the steam off, and just like before continues to drip until I turn off the power.
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Do you think the boiler is overheating? Water coming out at boiling point when you press the brew switch?
I suppose it's possible there's a failed thermostat. I had the brew thermostat on a Rancilio Silvia pop a few years back, but in that case it had failed off rather than on. In that case, it was a straightforward replacement (maybe £5 for the part and five minutes of fettling), but again can't comment on details of the Delonghi machines.