Coffee - Grinders and Coffee Makers

[LEE]

I'm going start grinding my own coffee beans (because all the anecdotes seem to point to that being the best way to get a nice fresh cup).

I've searched on many grinders and it seems that "Burr" grinders are the best.
They grind for a pre-set result like a pepper-mill rather than smash the beans with rotating blades and hope for the best.

I've settled on this De Longhi "Burr" grinder (£33 or so) as it seems to get great reviews for the price.


And this Delonghi Compact 15 Bar Pump Espresso/ Cappuccino Maker
which is about £55

I can't find a combination of the two which get as good reviews for a total price of about £90.

Any opinions?  (I'm really not interested in spending several hundred pounds.  At first I will still be using the grounds in my drip-filter machine and then I'll buy the Espresso machine.


Any views on Stove-Top coffee makers?  I've always wanted one (they seem ubiquitous in French supermarkets) but never tasted the results.

I'm looking for that perfect "Americano" (or what normal people call "A proper cup of coffee") rather than an actual Espresso.

[Charlotte]

I have some opinions, yes.  I expect others will be along shortly.

Don't skimp on the grinder!  You can make great coffee with fresh beans and a coffee maker costing a few quid, but if your beans aren't ground right, your coffee will always be lacking.  I found this fabulous spreadsheet of grinders on the UK Coffee Forums and I generally agree on what they're saying:

http://coffeeforums.co.uk/showthread.php?2956-Grinder-Prices

We bought a Rancilio Rocky, but that was mainly because we make short and long coffee and it's got an easily adjustable grind setting.  Otherwise, just for espresso, I was set on the Iberital MC2, which is much cheaper and probably just as good.  If you can't afford the cheapest electric burr grinder on this list, buy a manual ceramic burr grinder (I have the Hario slim mill for use at work and although it's not quick, it grinds fine enough for any kind of coffee you could want to make).

If a good grinder has blown the budget then don't buy an espresso machine.  At home, we have Tewdric's old Rancilio Silvia and although it's an awesome bit of kit and makes espresso to die for (on the occasions that the coffee gods are smiling on me and everything goes to plan) I drink more coffee from my twenty quid Aeropress than I do from the Silvia.

For the purest and loveliest coffee experience, you don't even need an Aeropress.  I also make pourover coffee with a simple paper filter and once you've got your technique right, pourover is delicious.

Some more reading on the subject:

http://boingboing.net/2010/09/30/perfecting-my-travel.html

I very much doubt you'll be happy with that coffee maker.  Seriously - if you're only looking to spend a hundred quid, then get a hundred quid grinder and a few quid's worth of paper filters and a drip cone.  You'll make better coffee from the start that way and you'll always have the option of a second hand Gaggia or something at a later date.

[nicknack]

On the odd occasion when I buy beans and grind them myself (I usually CBA) I use my trusty wall mounted Spong. Works fine.

[jezzasnr]

I've recently got my self that grinder, along with a Gaggia Cubika Plus.
I'm fairly happy with both for a first toe in the water of home coffee.
Of the two the grinder would be the one that gets upgraded first I think, but for now it's just fine for the price paid.
It's all a bit of a faff to start, but we seem to be getting fairly consistent, decent coffee and getting the hang of it.

[fred the great]

Don't buy an Espresso machine too quickly until you know a lot more about making coffee. To start pretty cheaply buy a ceramic burr hand grinder, a 2 cup filter preferably ceramic and Mellita paper filters plus some decent beans. Temperature of the water used plus grind size is the key to brewing a nice cup. Pasteurized milk is generally better but don't overheat it.

Do a search for videos as there many available on Vimeo and Youtube and your knowledge will grow quickly.

Have fun.

[Hot Flatus]

I'd agree with Charlotte. Get a good grinder, but not the Iberital MC2 ( it is great for espresso, but a pain in the arse to change the grind settings)

Get s cheap plastic cone filter and some papers. Grind quite coarsely if it is s light coffee like s Kenyan and start by making it weak and adjust until you hit your preferred strength. Good light coffees are better made weaker or you lose the floral qualities.

For dark roast stuff try Indonesian. Make it a bit stronger.

Don't buy that espresso machine. Those things are shit, they don't make proper espresso and you'd be better off with s stove top. Anyone who tells you different is a cunt.

Get beans from supplier such as Hasbeans. Much better than supermarket

[Rhys W]

You're like one of these people who ask us cyclists "I want to buy a mountain bike, is this one for £120 good? I don't want to spend more." 

That's the espresso machine equivalent of a BSO, frankly. The cheap materials and construction will become apparent within weeks.

If you just want to make Americanos and don't want to become obsessed with crema, spend £100 on a better-made grinder and get a Bialetti Moka pot.

[clarion]

Since I no longer drink coffee I can't really offer a useful opinion on this.  All I will say on the subject is that you want to be careful, as you definitely want a Grinder, not a Grindr.  Different thing entirely.

[urban_biker]

I've recently bought one of the stainless steel Bialetti Moka pots. Am very pleased with it - cost around £33 from ebay. Currently using Lavazza ready ground espresso coffee which makes a decent cup, but am enjoying reading this thread as I'm considering getting a grinder as well.

[RJ]

On the odd occasion when I buy beans and grind them myself (I usually CBA) I use my trusty wall mounted Spong. Works fine.

I'm using my parents' old Spong - it contains a massive hand-cranked burr and will pulverise beans to espresso fineness, or crumble them for filters equally happily.  Fresh-ground beans from that in a no-name (but classically proportioned) stovetop espresso pot make a very drinkable coffee, though lacking crema - which is absolutely no problem at all for those who add milk or water.  Even on its own, the end product is waaayy better than a lot of bought "espresso".

[ian]

People get themselves too frothy about coffee. It's become a bit of middle-class obsession. Heaven knows, I get dragged into enough kitchens that seem to have been built around a coffee machine that looks and sounds like a dangerously over-pressured steam locomotive. It hoots, and hisses, and coughs up a shot of something that looks like tubercular sputum. Oh they look so happy, like they just milked an angel, as they tentatively hand you the teeny cup. I tell you, it mostly tastes like caffeinated grit, and have to get out that grin (the one you normally keep around for those occasions when ugly babies are thrust at you for comment).

If you must drink espresso, then you need a burr grinder. Otherwise, it doesn't much matter, you don't need to grind coffee down to individual atoms to make a pot of filter coffee. I have a Cusinart coffee robot that does everything other than drink the stuff. Makes a perfect pot of coffee and could take SkyNet in a robo-fight.

[clarion]

Whether you agree with it or not, this could be Post of the Day.

[pcolbeck]

I've got that coffee maker. It's pretty good.  Main thing with it is getting the tamping right on the coffee. I don't grind my own very often but mainly use Illy espresso.  You can get a tad obsessive about these things.

[Hot Flatus]

I've got that coffee maker. It's pretty good. 

Don't say I didn't warn you....

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/aFX5rZZzCp4&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/aFX5rZZzCp4&rel=1</a>

No disrespect

[Billy Weir]

I have some opinions, yes. 

Your sage opinions have just relieved me of the burden of 10s of £.  I'd never heard of the Aeropress, nor thought of buying a hand grinder before reading your post.  A little bit of research and it appears these will be perfect for the office, where currently I rely on tea and "ground coffee" from the admittedly more luxurious than most hot beverage machine.  What with Breakfast Bomb on order as well, I expect to be very productive at work in a couple of days.  As the French say, merci beaucoup.

[DrMekon]

For a noob, aeropress or drip cone?

Been on a caffeine (and alcohol) fast since the beginning of the month, and will break the fast after the MK-Wales and back 600 in mid Oct. Current plan is to have Has Bean send me a Porlex Ceramic Burr Coffee Grinder, some Breakfast Bomb, and either HARIO CERAMIC V60 DRIPPER or Aeropress.

[Charlotte]

Your sage opinions have just relieved me of the burden of 10s of £....

... As the French say, merci beaucoup.

Most welcome.  I hope you enjoy it as much as I do every day 

For a noob, aeropress or drip cone?

I'd say Aeropress.  For three reasons:

1. It's easier to make a good cup of coffee in an Aeropress - the technique is more repeatable.

2. Although a drip cone is cheaper than an Aeropress, to make really good coffee in one, you'll need a pour kettle so you can spend at least thirty seconds or so pouring the water in really slowly.  A pour kettle + drip cone will probably cost you more than option (1).

3. An Aeropress is more versatile.  You can make short coffee (an espresso-like drink, if you will) in it.  You can also dilute this to make a longer Americano style coffee.  With the drip cone and kettle method, you're limited to long coffee.

[Billy Weir]

For a noob, aeropress or drip cone?

Been on a caffeine (and alcohol) fast since the beginning of the month, and will break the fast after the MK-Wales and back 600 in mid Oct. Current plan is to have Has Bean send me a Porlex Ceramic Burr Coffee Grinder, some Breakfast Bomb, and either HARIO CERAMIC V60 DRIPPER or Aeropress.

I looked into a Hario dripper but decided it didn't suit my own needs.  As an aside, you also get plastic versions that are around £10 cheaper (HasBean don't stock, funnily enough).  Simply google "Hario Plastic v60" restricting to UK.  Actually, I'll save you the time

http://www.espresso-products.co.uk/hario-v60-02-plastic-coffee-dripper-vd-02t-225-p.asp

(can't vouch for the store as I've not ordered from it).

PS: It's sounds like your going through the same thought process I did a couple of weeks ago, also being a n00b.  With 10 days under my belt, I'm finding the Aeropress a joy (for office, it is perfect, as it is relatively quick and cleans really easily).  My taste buds prefers Four Bean rather than Breakfast Bomb.  I'm thinking of grinding beans at home and taking into work, rather than relying on the ~(Hario) hand grinder (which does a good job, but one needs to be patient - it takes about 3-5 minutes of intense work to get two shots worth of coffee).

PPS: the Aeropress comes with filters.  I didn't realise this and bought a separate pack on top when I ordered.  Just saying so you don't make the same mistake.

[Rhys W]

I've seen a stainless steel permanent filter for an Aeropress on thinkgeek.com, I dunno if somewhere in the UK sells them.

[Thor]

http://www.creamsupplies.co.uk/stainless-steel-filter-for-aeropress-/prod_2208.html?category=226 

[eeymsmo]

http://www.creamsupplies.co.uk/stainless-steel-filter-for-aeropress-/prod_2208.html?category=226 

Problem with that is that I won't be awake enough to remember to remove it from the coffee puck before ejecting it into the office bin until I've drunk the coffee I've just made.

Another happy Aeropress and Breakfast Bomb user here. (well, after a couple of cups this morning I am).

[Regulator]

Oh dear...



£400 more because of a bit of branding... 

A fool and his money, as they say.

[fred the great]

For the absolute beginner just putting their toes into coffee making as it were. I don't think a pour over kettle is essential for starters.
 
A hand burr grinder, cup filter, Melitta filters and nice beans are all one needs plus of course. lots of practice. There are many tips on the Internet plus various video's.

I must say the Aeropress sounds rather interesting but so far have never seen one in the Shops where I live.

[dasmoth]

It's a bit sad that the Rapha-branded E61 (a decent option, but not exceptional) seems to be the only serious machine in the lineup.

Where's the LM GS3?  The Synesso Cyncra?  Anything from La Spaziale?  Colour me disappointed.  Given those choices, I'd probably end up with the moka pot.

[tonycollinet]

Now thinking of the Porlex hand grinder for work (damn you all!)

Anyone used one - how long to grind about 20g of beans?