Author Topic: Mixer Tap regulations  (Read 1664 times)

Mixer Tap regulations
« on: 18 April, 2024, 04:36:17 pm »
I've always understood that water board regulations said that hot water and cold from the rising main should not mix before they exit the tap.  Hence we have mixer taps that have two coaxial chambers in the spout.

However, I have just removed the hot cartridge, dripping don't ya know, and was surprised that when I turned on the cold tap it squirted out of the hot tap cartridge housing. There is no separation and this is a tap that is not very old.

What's going on?

Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #1 on: 18 April, 2024, 04:44:51 pm »
Depending on where you are the water boards bylaws were replaced with the "The Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999" in England and Wales.

See here https://www.waterregsuk.co.uk/information/water-fittings-regul/ for the guidance.

Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #2 on: 18 April, 2024, 04:59:01 pm »
I *suspect* that if the cold supply has a none return valve, then it is fine to mix in the tap.
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Kim

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Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #3 on: 18 April, 2024, 05:51:48 pm »
Or if the hot water is potable, as per a combi boiler.

Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #4 on: 18 April, 2024, 06:36:30 pm »
Well, neither a non return valve is fitted nor is the hot supplied by a combi boiler.

The tap description reads " this kitchen tap is suitable for all water systems and pressures for smooth, quiet function and high flow rates, and is WRAS approved."

Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #5 on: 18 April, 2024, 06:46:24 pm »
From the WRAS website for approvals for this manufacturer for a similar tap:

Installation Requirements:

IRN R010

Water supplies shall be at reasonably balanced pressures from a common source (e.g. hot and cold supplies both from the same storage or both from a supply pipe).  Where the fitting is supplied from unbalanced supplies (e.g. hot and cold supplies from separate sources) an ‘Approved’ single check valve or some other no less effective backflow prevention device shall be fitted immediately upstream of both hot and cold water inlets

Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #6 on: 19 April, 2024, 07:34:15 am »
Bad installation then.

Doesn't surprise me. My daughter's first flat in London had sewage come up through the sink waste when upstairs flushed their toilet.
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Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #7 on: 19 April, 2024, 09:05:56 am »
Or if the hot water is potable, as per a combi boiler.

Kim this is not possible, under the water regs, potable water is class 1, water with an aesthetic change e.g. of temperature, is class 2 and requires a back flow prevention device. The classes make their way through to class 5 for containing toxins, carcinogens etc. and the resilience of the device gets more stringent the worse the fluid.

The reason that the combi boiler doesn't need a backflow protection device is because the water is from the source (mains) and therefore at the same pressure and cannot reverse the flow, if the combi boiler was being fed from a header tank in the loft the pressures would be different and the backflow protection device would be required.

Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #8 on: 19 April, 2024, 10:16:00 am »
Bad installation then.

That may be, but I replaced the separated mixer tap with one I believed to be a like for like replacement.  I wasn't aware that tap design had changed.

Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #9 on: 19 April, 2024, 10:19:31 am »
Bad installation then.


Not if the original tap separated the flow.
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Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #10 on: 19 April, 2024, 01:29:26 pm »
Or if the hot water is potable, as per a combi boiler.

Kim this is not possible, under the water regs, potable water is class 1, water with an aesthetic change e.g. of temperature, is class 2 and requires a back flow prevention device. The classes make their way through to class 5 for containing toxins, carcinogens etc. and the resilience of the device gets more stringent the worse the fluid.

The reason that the combi boiler doesn't need a backflow protection device is because the water is from the source (mains) and therefore at the same pressure and cannot reverse the flow, if the combi boiler was being fed from a header tank in the loft the pressures would be different and the backflow protection device would be required.
Does this mean that hot water is always defined as being non-potable? And if so, a) why? b) doesn't that mean that in practice the majority of cold water from a mixer tap is non-potable (because it's very rare the mixer is all the way over to 100% cold)?
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Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #11 on: 19 April, 2024, 01:34:44 pm »
Presumably yes, for the purposes of whether it's allowed to get into water mains.  Once you heat it up, there's the possibility of legionella or whatever.

Nothing to stop you brushing your teeth with it, of course.

Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #12 on: 19 April, 2024, 01:36:56 pm »
Cudz, your stretching my knowledge of the regs to the very limit.

I would say that hot water might be potable or 'wholesome' under the terms of the regulations, but because mains tap water shouldn't be tepid as that would potentially be unpaletable there is a requirement to prevent mixing. See here for the fluid categories https://www.waterregsuk.co.uk/guidance/backflow-protection/backflow-protection/backflow-protection/what-is-a-fluid-cate/

With my water treatment hat on the other reason I wouldn't want to mix in hot water is the residual disinfectant (chlorine or chloramines) that are there to suppress any microbiological contamination after treatment that might make the water unsafe. Heating the water will reduce this residual and will therefore mean that the water once cooled could easily become a viable media for biological growth, see legionella's etc.

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Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #13 on: 19 April, 2024, 01:41:07 pm »
Cudz, your stretching my knowledge of the regs to the very limit.
Sorry! And thanks for the answer, including the link.
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Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #14 on: 19 April, 2024, 01:50:28 pm »
Cudz, your stretching my knowledge of the regs to the very limit.
Sorry! And thanks for the answer, including the link.
Nothing wrong with that, I was just caveating the reply rather than seeming too authoritative.

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Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #15 on: 19 April, 2024, 01:54:57 pm »
Cudz, your stretching my knowledge of the regs to the very limit.
Sorry! And thanks for the answer, including the link.
Nothing wrong with that, I was just caveating the reply rather than seeming too authoritative.


Looking at that Cat5 description, what happens if you have more than one fluid posing a serious health hazard?  Does it go up to 11?
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Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #16 on: 19 April, 2024, 02:02:10 pm »
Cudz, your stretching my knowledge of the regs to the very limit.
Sorry! And thanks for the answer, including the link.
Nothing wrong with that, I was just caveating the reply rather than seeming too authoritative.


Looking at that Cat5 description, what happens if you have more than one fluid posing a serious health hazard?  Does it go up to 11?
For the water that comes out of the Spinal Tap presumably.
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Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #17 on: 19 April, 2024, 02:03:15 pm »
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Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #18 on: 20 April, 2024, 12:02:33 am »
I don't know that wras regs ever said you cannot mix hot and cold in a tap body - otherwise all telephone handset bath/shower taps would have been non compliant

What they do say is thou shalt not feed dead pigeon gazpacho from thy loft tank into the mains water system if we turn it off

In t'olden days the bath tap was generally fed from the loft cold tank assuring it couldn't back feed but kitchen taps often used mains cold and gravity hot. The easiest approach to guarantee compliance was the two tube non mixing approach

In your case cold coming out of a disassembled mixer tap is no indicator of non compliance. Even if correctly fitted with non return valves in accordance with regs this would still happen. Water will always find the easiest way to release it's pressure so if there's a dirty great hole in the tap body it will come out of there

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Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #19 on: 20 April, 2024, 09:39:35 am »
I once had dead pigeon coming out of the bath tap.  Bird Flue?
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Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #20 on: 20 April, 2024, 08:20:05 pm »
I don't know that wras regs ever said you cannot mix hot and cold in a tap body - otherwise all telephone handset bath/shower taps would have been non compliant

What they do say is thou shalt not feed dead pigeon gazpacho from thy loft tank into the mains water system if we turn it off

In t'olden days the bath tap was generally fed from the loft cold tank assuring it couldn't back feed but kitchen taps often used mains cold and gravity hot. The easiest approach to guarantee compliance was the two tube non mixing approach

In your case cold coming out of a disassembled mixer tap is no indicator of non compliance. Even if correctly fitted with non return valves in accordance with regs this would still happen. Water will always find the easiest way to release it's pressure so if there's a dirty great hole in the tap body it will come out of there

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Also if you had an old style open hot water system with a header / expansion tank in the loft then the Hot and Cold were at the same pressure. There would also have been a Type AB air gap at the filler of the header tank. After this the water board aren't worried as backflow to the mains or your kitchen tap simply isn't possible.

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Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #21 on: 20 April, 2024, 08:42:34 pm »
I don't know that wras regs ever said you cannot mix hot and cold in a tap body - otherwise all telephone handset bath/shower taps would have been non compliant

What they do say is thou shalt not feed dead pigeon gazpacho from thy loft tank into the mains water system if we turn it off

In t'olden days the bath tap was generally fed from the loft cold tank assuring it couldn't back feed but kitchen taps often used mains cold and gravity hot. The easiest approach to guarantee compliance was the two tube non mixing approach

In your case cold coming out of a disassembled mixer tap is no indicator of non compliance. Even if correctly fitted with non return valves in accordance with regs this would still happen. Water will always find the easiest way to release it's pressure so if there's a dirty great hole in the tap body it will come out of there

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Also if you had an old style open hot water system with a header / expansion tank in the loft then the Hot and Cold were at the same pressure. There would also have been a Type AB air gap at the filler of the header tank. After this the water board aren't worried as backflow to the mains or your kitchen tap simply isn't possible.

Is that right?
The hot and cold are only at the same pressure where the cold is also supplied from the header tank.

But the kitchen Cold tap will always be fed from the incoming main, at mains pressure.
You don't want to be drinking and cooking with dead-Pidgeon-soup.
The Hot tap will be at the lower header-tank pressure.

The potential back-flow situation occurs when the mains water is off, and has no pressure, allowing for the gravity-fed pigeons to back-feed into the public water supply.


Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #22 on: 20 April, 2024, 09:18:44 pm »
But a header tank in the roof would have a type backflow protection.

If the kitchen tap was a mixer rather than two separate taps then your concern would be correct and the cold side would require a backflow protection device, either in the feed line or integrated into tap.

Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #23 on: 21 April, 2024, 09:51:12 am »
Agree with Matthew

That's why the wras listing for the op's similar tap requires non return valves for compliance.

The tap is intrinsically non compliant due to hot and cold mixing internally and hence requires external backflow protection to comply

It's a con really. The wras approval on the box makes the customer think "drop in replacement" which this tap clearly isn't. Nobody is going to read the actual approval document and see the external backflow requirement when Magpie syndrome strikes in the B&Q tap aisle

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Re: Mixer Tap regulations
« Reply #24 on: 21 April, 2024, 04:39:33 pm »
Agree totally with AuldThumper.

I checked the old tap that was replaced and it did have separate chambers for hot and cold and a coaxial spout.