The "I'm Such a Fecking Div" Thread

[Ham]

Fed up with 3-minute power cuts that scrub my espresso machine's settings, I bought an el cheapo SLA battery and put it in one of our old UPSes. Set it all up - it fits nicely in behind the machine - and turned it on.  No smoke, jolly good.  Turned on coffee machine: UPS goes eek and turns on a red light.

Well natch, dumbo.  UPS is 350W max and machine draws 1850.

Looks like our TV (253W) is about to acquire a UPS.

Couldn't you just install a two way switch (make before break) to switch power from UPS to mains when you want to use it? That opens up years of tripping the UPS when you forget to throw the switch

[Feanor]

Couldn't you just install a two way switch (make before break) to switch power from UPS to mains when you want to use it?

Woah! Hold on right there!

That would have the UPS output connected to the mains during the changeover.
That sounds like a spectacularly bad idea.

If the machine's settings are volatile and get lost on power cycling, that sounds like Very Poor Design.
The solution would be to open it up and add battery back-up to the memory on control PCB, rather than to try to UPS the whole thing with heating elements / pumps etc.
That's not going to be feasible for most folks, tho.

[MattH]

The alternative way of doing it is using a changeover relay with a mains coil. That way, when it has mains power it is energised and the machine is driven from the mains. When the mains fails, it runs off the UPS. That isn't too unusual in campers with big inverters on board.
However,
1) If your machine is sensitive to even minor blips in the mains, it'll still lose settings - hopefully it can cope with fractions of a second.
and
2) If you are running the machine when the mains goes out, it'll overload the UPS.

The "right" way of doing it is a big chunky UPS - that way you can run the machine when the power is out, and not suffer caffeine withdrawal during an outage.

[Kim]

Couldn't you just install a two way switch (make before break) to switch power from UPS to mains when you want to use it?

Woah! Hold on right there!

That would have the UPS output connected to the mains during the changeover.
That sounds like a spectacularly bad idea.

If the machine's settings are volatile and get lost on power cycling, that sounds like Very Poor Design.
The solution would be to open it up and add battery back-up to the memory on control PCB, rather than to try to UPS the whole thing with heating elements / pumps etc.
That's not going to be feasible for most folks, tho.

Possibly simpler, depending on how they're controlled, would to be to modify it so that the coffee-making bits are fed through a separate power lead.  No mains, no coffee, but the magic smoke and settings remain intact.

That said, a break-before-make changeover might work fine, on the basis that most DC power supplies can ride out a second or two of supply interruption on the charge in the reservoir capacitor.

ETA: Crosspost with MattH

[Diver300]

I would separate out the heater and give it a separate mains lead, as Kim has suggested.

Take the existing wires from the heater and use them to feed the coil of a 240 V relay. The contacts of that relay go in series with the heater.

https://cpc.farnell.com/relpol/rm85-2011-35-5230/8-pin-low-profile-relay-16a-spco/dp/SW05461 is a possibility.

For safety / earth leakage reasons, you need to make sure that the live and neutral of the heater are separate from the live and neutral of everything else.

The remaining power rating without the heater will probably be less than 10 W.

Alternatively, the electronics in the coffee machine will run from a low voltage dc. If you can find that voltage and support that directly from an SLA battery, it might be simpler.

[T42]

Thank you all, but the machine is still under guarantee - can't open it.  I dunno why the daft buggers at Sage didn't build in a BIOS battery. They're very good at building in other doo-hickeys you could do without.

MrsT suggests pencil & paper.

[Tim Hall]

Is it possible it has one but not working? Still under warranty you say...

[robgul]

Is it possible it has one but not working? Still under warranty you say...

That was my thinking - seems poor design if it relies on mains juice to retain settings . . .  but what sort of settings are they?  - our machine is a plumbed-in Fracino thing that just works with a switch for espresso shots and knobs for steam and hot water.

[T42]

Is it possible it has one but not working? Still under warranty you say...

That was my thinking - seems poor design if it relies on mains juice to retain settings . . .  but what sort of settings are they?  - our machine is a plumbed-in Fracino thing that just works with a switch for espresso shots and knobs for steam and hot water.

Extraction temperature, infusion and extraction time.  Pukka procedure is to dial in again every day because of changes in atmospheric humidity and temperature, so I suppose they think I shouldn't simply assume the current settings will be OK from one day to the next. In my experience they usually are OK as far as I can tell, so it's a nuisance to have to re-calibrate.

I suppose that's Sage's rationale for leaving out a backup system.

[Kim]

Jeez, what doesn't have a bit of flash memory these days.  Pure laziness, I reckon.  Even if you're tweaking every day, starting from the previous value ought to save a few keypresses.

I suppose you can be thankful it doesn't use internet-of-shit technology to obtain atmospheric data for the wrong location and muck up your coffee...

[robgul]

Is it possible it has one but not working? Still under warranty you say...

That was my thinking - seems poor design if it relies on mains juice to retain settings . . .  but what sort of settings are they?  - our machine is a plumbed-in Fracino thing that just works with a switch for espresso shots and knobs for steam and hot water.

Extraction temperature, infusion and extraction time.  Pukka procedure is to dial in again every day because of changes in atmospheric humidity and temperature, so I suppose they think I shouldn't simply assume the current settings will be OK from one day to the next. In my experience they usually are OK as far as I can tell, so it's a nuisance to have to re-calibrate.

I suppose that's Sage's rationale for leaving out a backup system.

All that temperature, atmospheric pressure stuff seems to be total cobblers - if the water temperature is within 3 or 4 degrees of the standard, then the biggest variable in making coffee is the beans and their grind.

[ElyDave]

Is it possible it has one but not working? Still under warranty you say...

That was my thinking - seems poor design if it relies on mains juice to retain settings . . .  but what sort of settings are they?  - our machine is a plumbed-in Fracino thing that just works with a switch for espresso shots and knobs for steam and hot water.

Extraction temperature, infusion and extraction time.  Pukka procedure is to dial in again every day because of changes in atmospheric humidity and temperature, so I suppose they think I shouldn't simply assume the current settings will be OK from one day to the next. In my experience they usually are OK as far as I can tell, so it's a nuisance to have to re-calibrate.

I suppose that's Sage's rationale for leaving out a backup system.

All that temperature, atmospheric pressure stuff seems to be total cobblers - if the water temperature is within 3 or 4 degrees of the standard, then the biggest variable in making coffee is the beans and their grind.

I has a different sage machine, and separate grinder, very much this^^^^

I make tweaks for beans

[Beardy]

I’ve got a single gaggia machine. You put beans and water in the top, press a button and coffee (eventually) comes out of the spout.

Ok, you can adjust the grind, the amount of beans it grinds, the volume and temp of water it puts through the grounds and the volume of water it tops up an americano with. It has 4 presets you can programme which it allows you to tweak every time you select a programme. But I played around with these when we first got so the various volumes it gives us fit in the cups we’ve and I’ve not needed to alter it again. Well apart from when Dr B wants a coffee later in the day without caffeine, in which case I have to tell it no coffee because I’ve put the decaf in via the bypass shoot.

Lots of,possibilities that doesn’t need messing with day to day.

[ElyDave]

Coffee, without caffeine? 

I don't understand, you seem to be speaking in riddles

[T42]

All that temperature, atmospheric pressure stuff seems to be total cobblers - if the water temperature is within 3 or 4 degrees of the standard, then the biggest variable in making coffee is the beans and their grind.

Agree re beans & grind, but I find that a couple of degrees make a noticeable difference in acidity vs bitterness.

[T42]

Coffee, without caffeine? 

I don't understand, you seem to be speaking in riddles

Decaf. An excellent opportunity to recycle the puck from the previous shot.

[davelodwig]

Coffee, without caffeine? 

I don't understand, you seem to be speaking in riddles

I used to think the same way, then In the weeks following the boys arrival I poisoned myself and ended up in hospital.

As it turns out there is a limit to the amount of caffeine you can consume before the palpitations and acid reflex get too much.

Decaf all the way now, I've no desire to repeat that, and I've never slept so well before.

[T42]

Coffee, without caffeine? 

I don't understand, you seem to be speaking in riddles

I used to think the same way, then In the weeks following the boys arrival I poisoned myself and ended up in hospital.

As it turns out there is a limit to the amount of caffeine you can consume before the palpitations and acid reflex get too much.

Decaf all the way now, I've no desire to repeat that, and I've never slept so well before.

I tried decaf a while back. Tasted like shit and the reflux was worse.

[ElyDave]

Coffee, without caffeine? 

I don't understand, you seem to be speaking in riddles

I used to think the same way, then In the weeks following the boys arrival I poisoned myself and ended up in hospital.

As it turns out there is a limit to the amount of caffeine you can consume before the palpitations and acid reflex get too much.

Decaf all the way now, I've no desire to repeat that, and I've never slept so well before.

My record as a PSO is a jar of instant in under a week
During summer vac, a jug of filter coffee before lunch
As a "grown up" I may have reached double figures

These days, 2 cups with breakfast, another at lunch. If I hit 5 cups that's a long and stressful day

[Beardy]

My sister’s husband was reputed to live of coffee, cigarettes and finger nails when he was off-shore in the eighties. Looking at his physique during that time I can quite believe it.

Mind ewe, having them shut off a production well (at a cost of $millions an hour) so that you can drop a several hundred of dollars worth of sensitive measurement and analysis kit down their very expensively drilled hole on the end of a very long piece of flimsy wire would make me a bit nervous as well. Add to that the knowledge that if the wire broke you’d have to spend even more time ‘fishing’ for the instrument string becuase they can’t re-start their operations till you get your crap out of their hole. It’s not surprising at all that his diet evolved to include chasers of gaviscon.

He said exploration rigs were even more nerve wrecking becuase they were relying on you telling them that they’d struck paydirt on top of all of the above.

[Feanor]

That is the same job wot I did do, for a company that was called Dresser Atlas when I started.
'Wireline engineer' it is called.
I went on to be a training instructor on the subject.

Dont miss it one bit.

[ElyDave]

That is the same job wot I did do, for a company that was called Dresser Atlas when I started.
'Wireline engineer' it is called.
I went on to be a training instructor on the subject.

Dont miss it one bit.

I've always been a topsides person,  what goes on subsurface is witchcraft as far as I'm concerned.

Dresser Atlas, did that eventually become part of Atlas Copco, or get subsumed elsewhere?

[Beardy]

From what I understand they all became one company. I certainly remember him working for the firm when it was called Baker-Atlas, although what it was called at the end of his career I can’t remember.  He worked for them from leaving uni to retierment through a number of mergers and name changes.

[Mrs Pingu]

Every year about this time, as the seasons change and bring that nip in the air, I always misplace some cold weather accessory or other. One year it was that Jelly Belly buff that was found down the back of a radiator some months later, there's always gloves going astray, last year it was a purple woolly hat missing all winter that D found in his luggage this summer. Now it's the turn of my cycle cap with the little ear flaps. WTF have I done with it?

[Feanor]

From what I understand they all became one company. I certainly remember him working for the firm when it was called Baker-Atlas, although what it was called at the end of his career I can’t remember.  He worked for them from leaving uni to retierment through a number of mergers and name changes.

It was Baker Atlas when I was canned about 6 years ago. There is a fair chance I know him if he passed through Montrose Training Centre in the 10 years prior to that.