Suggest someone to build a non-bling cargo bike

[mrcharly-YHT]

A friend runs a heavy-goods bike courier business, and has major problems with his bikes breaking. The frames of the 8-freight bikes are Al, and the seat tubes are too weak.

He wants to find an engineer/framebuilder who will make a steel frame to his specs, using much of the 8-freight design. As he's in communication with Mike Burrows, I don't think there is a problem with copyright.


This is an 8-freight

[Zoidburg]

Longstaffs

That is all.

[Valiant]

Why not use a trailler? That way it does all the work? Carry Freedom build traillers for people to delivery fridges and the like. I've towed 100kg on various bikes including road bikes with fancy racing wheels with no problems.

[gordon taylor]

Longstaffs

That is all.

Agreed. They'd build a tough trike chassis if needed too. But it would cost the same as a small van, probably.

[mrcharly-YHT]

They have heavy cargo trikes already. The 8-freight's are used to take smaller stuff out to destinations on the outskirts of york.

They don't want trailers. Believe me, these guys know every single production cargo-handling bike device there is. They worked on Encyclopedia, and for the Company of Cyclists.

Longstaffs might be worth a try. Their trike experience will make them aware of issues with heavy torsional forces.

[TimO]

Just out of interest, what's wrong with a more traditional Long John bicycle design?  Obviously the load is in front rather than behind, but I would have thought you could find a frame which would take a fair amount of abuse, and for a lot less than having a custom frame made.

[rr]

Royal mail bikes?

[giropaul]

Maybe Pashley; they do a lot of the stuff like Royal Mail bikes I think.

[Charlotte]

They don't want trailers. Believe me, these guys know every single production cargo-handling bike device there is. They worked on Encyclopedia, and for the Company of Cyclists.

But have they heard of the mighty Yuba Mundo?

[Polar Bear]

Just out of interest, what's wrong with a more traditional Long John bicycle design?  Obviously the load is in front rather than behind, but I would have thought you could find a frame which would take a fair amount of abuse, and for a lot less than having a custom frame made.

I had a go on a Long John when I was in Denmark earlier this year.   It is a fabulous machine capable of carrying 100kgs.  The one I rode was quite old but still in everyday use.   The ownere is a farmer and he uses it around his farm. 

Not much good for anything but almost perfectly flat terrain though.     

[mrcharly-YHT]

I think it comes down to handling at speed. They don't ride these bike really fast, but do welly it round at about 15mph, all day, with 50-100kg loads.

The Yuba Mundo and its like aren't flexible enough. It's the low, flat cargo bed that makes the 8-freight so useful. It's a sporty version of a long john.

Mick knows what is on the market, knows what he needs. He just needs someone to build it! Or 4 of it, actually.

[alexb]

You should put this thread up on frameforum frameforum - Index
If I recall correctly there is a guy who works at Pashley who posts on there.

My guess would be that if you wanted a company to do it Pashley would be worth a shot.
A custom builder is going to have too long a lead time if they're any good.

The other option would be to go outside the box and see what a light engineering factory could do for you, if it's just modifiying an existing design with no input from them, then that might work.

[Wendy]

What about a bakfiets?

[mrcharly-YHT]

They'd last 5 minutes, BM. Seriously. 

Thanks, Alex, I hadn't come across that forum. Will try looking on there.

[Wendy]

Then it sounds like they are handing out unrealistic abuse to the bikes if both 8 Freights and bakfietses can't take the strain.  Perhaps they don't need bikes, but something like a car?

[TimO]

There is possibly a contradiction in the requirements.  A Long John is big heavy, bomb proof, and not terribly fast.  An Eight Freight appears to be somewhat faster, but less sturdy.  The facts are possibly not unrelated.  If you want something that can be hammered around, tolerate a lot of abuse, and carry a substantial amount of cargo, it may be difficult to find something.  Re-engineering an Eight Freight with steel instead of Al may end up with something that looses the Eight Freights speed.  A vehicle that can take 50-100 kg at 15mph, all day, is asking quiet a lot.

[mrcharly-YHT]

A vehicle that can take 50-100 kg at 15mph, all day, is asking quiet a lot.

Yup, it is.

The problem is in one area of the bike, the slender seat and rear triangle stays. These break so often that Mick has to own 4 bikes to keep 3 on the road.

I'll believe a Long John is bombproof when I've spoken to someone who has ridden one 8 hours a day, 5 days a week fully loaded, through stop-start traffic, for several years.

[TimO]

I suspect due to either a custom design, or rarity, any bike to suit this requirement is going to have potential drawbacks.  If those stays are the ones prone to breakage, then you could just beef up that area of the bike, although realistically Al possibly isn't the best thing to use for a cargo bike.  I guess the route you're suggesting, which is to rebuild the Eight Freight design in steel, and presumably make those rear elements (which clearly are going to take a lot of strain, simply due to leverage) rather more over engineered than currently, is possibly one way to go.  The downside is always going to be cost.

One possible way to drop the cost of making a small number of frames, would be to make more, to take advantage of the economies of scale, and sell the surplus on.  Whilst there probably isn't a vast market for cargo bikes in the UK, I suspect you could sell a not insignificant number, and this could always be achieved with some sort of partnership with a suitable company.

Good luck, it sounds like an interesting project.  Cargo bikes are very cool, if I could come up with an excuse to own one I would, but at the moment I can only just about justify having a Yak Bob!  (much as a Carry Freedom looks like it would let me carry stupid amounts around, making this a two trailer household would start getting silly.  <mutters under breath, n+1 does not apply to trailers...>).

[Valiant]

Have they tried decent trailers or are they just fobbing them off?

Though if they really want cargo, why not go with a Brox?

[mrcharly-YHT]

They have tried everything.

have you ever come across http://www.encycleopedia.com/?

When cargo-carrying stuff is tested, it is tested in York, by this company. 

The uber-cargo device is a cycles Maximus. The latest frames on those seem almost indestructible.

However, for fast traffic jamming and using cycle paths (which offer decent shortcuts in York), a bike is the device to use. It has to be something that carries the load down low, allows for tall and uneven loads, and is very stable when parked. That's the 8-freight. The only trouble is the Al frame.