Let's talk Hydraulic brakes

[Lightning Phil]

Rather than start another thread.

Last week, after 14 months and 16,000km I needed to bleed the front brake on my recumbent. I bled it and normal function resumed, all good.  The rear brake didn’t need bleeding. 

The front is a 406 wheel (rear 622) and I’ve ridden through some deepish floods of late.  So front caliper may have gone underwater but not the rear.  Is this coincidental or might riding through floods have anything to do with the front needing a bleed?

[jiberjaber]

Wouldn't have thought so Phil - Perhaps not right from the start off?

I've only bleeded (sp?) mine when something has changed like the hose being shortened or replacing the brake caliper (25,000km ago)

As long as the pistons are moving correctly and the system is air-free with new pads it should have enough fluid to cover the wear unless it leaks somewhere ?

[Lightning Phil]

Yeah maybe I didn’t put in quite enough fluid to start. Which was fine with new pads but not once worn past a certain point.

[quixoticgeek]

Did the first test ride with the new brakes today.

WHY OH WHY OH WHY, did I not do this upgrade sooner?

Gonna take me a few rides to get used to the increased stopping power. Grab a full handful of brake lever at a traffic light and I'm going to end up going straight over the bars.

The second brake was so much easier than the first.

J

[Hot Flatus]

Great, aren't they 

It's not so much the power that I like but the control and modulation that you never get with cable discs.

[Lightning Phil]

Wait till you use them on steep hills in the rain. Looveeeeerly

[Kim]

Great, aren't they 

It's not so much the power that I like but the control and modulation that you never get with cable discs.

This.

Well, and you can take them to Wales for the weekend and still have stopping power at the end of it^[1].


_{[1] To be fair this only happen to me once, due to not reading the small print on Wilko brake cable inners.}

[Hot Flatus]

Also you don't get the degradation you get with cables that get clogged with shite, or the need to constantly wind the pads out as they wear.

The only thing I don't like about the hydros is the length of lever travel. I can alter it on the DA lever set up on my summer bike, but it's still more than I prefer. On the older set up (1st gen Di2 hydro Ultegra) that came with mtb style calpers on a flat mount frame (because flat mount Road calipers hadn't been made available yet) there is no adjustment on the levers. So, when I have the bike in the stand I just drop the wheels and pump the pistons out a little. Minor hassle but I prefer a super short travel that replicates my road cable set up. Bit more travel on the rear to avoid locking the wheel.

[Hot Flatus]

Great, aren't they 

It's not so much the power that I like but the control and modulation that you never get with cable discs.

This.

Well, and you can take them to Wales for the weekend and still have stopping power at the end of it^[1].


_{[1] To be fair this only happen to me once, due to not reading the small print on Wilko brake cable inners.}

I had a total loss of braking mid way through a January 200 using Juin-Tech cable/hydro hybrids (a bit like a cheap rip off of the TRP hybrid ones). Both brakes. They had been an absolute bugger to set up, and I had been having to adjust them mid ride, every ride. As the 200 was going to go through the Forest of Dean I knew I had to abandon. Fortunately I was in Gloucester, 10 miles from home, so I rode about 5 miles brakeless, but using feet as brakes, to a pub where I phoned my beloved who always likes a car rescue. Then train back to the start at Cardiff, where the lovely Ian L (otp) picked me up to recover my car just off the M4.  Brakes went in the bin. Never really got to the bottom of the issue, but lost faith in them.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I know someone who had the "expensive original" TRP HyRd and had continuous trouble with them. He eventually solved the problems by going to another system, but I can't remember now if it was fully cable or fully hydro. Either way, there seems to be some evidence (not just the two of you) that cable-hydraulic hybrid systems, theoretically best of both worlds, tend not to work well in practice.

[grams]

The thing I noticed during my brief dalliance with HY RDs is that they’re designed for far too much lever travel. It’s very easy to try to dial it out by shortening the cable, but then the piston never returns to its free position where the valve to the reservoir opens and self-adjustment can happen.

When you do have it set up “right” the levers pretty much touch the bar tape.

[Hot Flatus]

I noticed that with my Juins, which, I believe are a rip off of the TrP HyRDs.  Bloody awful things.

[sojournermike]

Yes, my HY/RDs had more lever trace than I liked, although they were both reliable and effective. Better than any pure cable discs I’ve tried. The Shimano hydros are much better though and mine all allow lever trace adjustment, which as HF points out matters.

That said, I still don’t mind rim brakes...

[Hot Flatus]

Leave it. It's not worth it.  You and your little  inviting '...'   

[imajez]

Either way, there seems to be some evidence (not just the two of you) that cable-hydraulic hybrid systems, theoretically best of both worlds, tend not to work well in practice.

Worst of both worlds in reality. All the the issues with cables faff and not getting the benefit of hydraulic. Pointless in my view.
The main issue I gather is that a bit of cable stretch has a much bigger effect on the hydraulic piston travel than with cable brakes. 

[Duckfoot1606]

Either way, there seems to be some evidence (not just the two of you) that cable-hydraulic hybrid systems, theoretically best of both worlds, tend not to work well in practice.

Worst of both worlds in reality. All the the issues with cables faff and not getting the benefit of hydraulic. Pointless in my view

My own experience is quite different. I replaced TRP Spyres with HyRd’s on my Croix de Fer and find them easy to to set up (YouTube is a friend) and easy to use, far more power and modulation than before and above all else confidence I’m actually going to stop when I need to. And at 18 Stone I take some stopping these days 😀

Each to their own, of course and I don’t dispute that a full hydraulic system would be stronger still

A

[chrisbainbridge]

I have the hydraulic discs on my new lightweight bike.  They are a complete disaster and cause no end of trouble!

Almost every time I come to a stop my Garmin incident detection goes off!!

[TimC]

I have the hydraulic discs on my new lightweight bike.  They are a complete disaster and cause no end of trouble!

Almost every time I come to a stop my Garmin incident detection goes off!!

You might want to try modulating your braking a bit, Chris!

I've triggered the incident detection thingy a couple of times by braking hard - and not just on discs. My family took over 24 hours to respond by asking 'was that real?', so I disabled the alert...

[chrisbainbridge]

Tim, I was being slightly tongue in cheek as it is a boring morning.  I am learning

[Hot Flatus]

I have the hydraulic discs on my new lightweight bike.  They are a complete disaster and cause no end of trouble!

Almost every time I come to a stop my Garmin incident detection goes off!!

You might want to try modulating your braking a bit, Chris!

I've triggered the incident detection thingy a couple of times by braking hard - and not just on discs. My family took over 24 hours to respond by asking 'was that real?', so I disabled the alert...

I stopped to mend somebody's puncture once and my watch started buzzing at me. As usual with Garmin watches, the ensuing instructions confused me slightly and the button I thought cancelled the alert actually confirmed it. I then worried that my very loving wife(who would receive the alert on her mobile) would panic and try and phone me...but my mobile had a flat battery so nobody would answer anyway, and this would create further panic.

I got home as quickly as I could. Turned out that my daughter had my wife's mobile phone, had seen the alert and ignored it 

[Solocle]

Both my bikes have hydraulic brakes, kind of. The fancy road bike has a factory SRAM set.

My commuting bike has a front hydraulic disc brake, and a rear cantilever brake. It's an old 1990 Ridgeback hybrid, so came with Cantilever brakes as stock. It also has a threaded headset...

Nethertheless, I had some cable disc brakes lying around from upgrading a previous bike to hydros, and the wheel needed replacing anyway, so I got a disc brake wheel and a new fork, some unbranded steel one off ebay, but it had disc mounts and a threaded steerer. So I plopped on the cable brakes.

A bit later, I upgraded that brake to a hydro. It's only the front brake that really benefits anyway!

[quixoticgeek]

I'm wondering how long it's going to take for me to adjust to how good these brakes are the amount of movement needed to almost stop the bike vs the amount I needed to have any effect with my old brakes is just a world apart.

Did another ride this evening, only scared myself a couple of times...

J

[Davef]

I'm wondering how long it's going to take for me to adjust to how good these brakes are the amount of movement needed to almost stop the bike vs the amount I needed to have any effect with my old brakes is just a world apart.

Did another ride this evening, only scared myself a couple of times...

J

Not as scary as the first time you go back to a bike with rim brakes.

[Hot Flatus]

...in the wet

[rafletcher]

...in the wet

This is where I find the difference. The difference in the dry between my disc equipped Equilibrium or Domane and my rim braked Argon 18 isn't something I've ever noticed, but in the wet, ah, yes.