Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: border-rider on 28 March, 2008, 09:23:24 pm
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These seem hard to track down. So here they are:
EASTER & SUMMER ARROWS TO YORK
NB This ride the Easter Arrow may be substitituted for the FLECHE VELOCIO in FRANCE WHEN CLAIMING FROM A.C.P your FREE Brevet 5000 medal
1. TEAMS of 3 to 5 riders [Tandems counting as one unit].
2.DISTANCES/ TIMES Minimum of 360 kms in 24 hours, though you are strongly advised to plan a higher mileage. At the finish, distances of 15% above or 20% below the one stated before you set off, cannot be validated .
3.ROUTES must be the shortest distance between control points, calculated in Kms, from OS AUTOROUTE or similar maps. The itinerary cannot use the same stretch or road twice. In the event of a diversion {roadworks or the like} , a stamp must be obtained at the furthest point. Routes can be circular and in any direction but eventually heading for YORK.
4. DISQUALIFICATION will result for the failure to have night time good lighting or the acceptance of help from anyone outside the team or from an undeclared support car. Teams who need this support must declare the number of the vehicle and the location(s) of contact.
5. PROCEDURE FOR ENTRY : forward to the organiser the proposed route. The captain will receive back a copy of the itinerary with possibly suggested modifications . Riders to complete the standard AUK entry forms.
6. DEPARTURE: each rider is to write on the card places and times agreed with the organiser. Team may leave any time between Thursday PM and Saturday noon.
7.CONTROLS : A stamp, receipt or ATM print-out with time of passage must be obtained and the start time and place adhered to.
8. ON THE ROAD: no deviation from the chosen route except in an emergency. Riders must carry their own card. Passing time at the controls must be written besides the stamps obtained .
9. 22ND HOUR: of the ride; the team must obtain a stamp etc and write on the card the nearest point reached, wherever it may be.
10. A MINIMUM DISTANCE : of 25 kms MUST separate the place traversed between the hours of 22 & 24.
11. ARRIVAL. A stamp is to be obtained at the nearest place reached at of after the 24th hour. This does not have to be YORK. Add the place , time & distance covered.
12. VALIDATION; will be awarded to a team of 3 riders [minimum} who complete an identical distance. Lone riders who comply with the regs may claim AUK but not ACP validation
13. ENTRY FEE of £10 per team is to be sent to the organiser [cheques payable to him please.
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EASTER & SUMMER ARROWS TO YORK
Nb This ride may be substitituted for the FLECHE VELOCIO in FRANCE WHEN CLAIMING FROM A.C.P your FREE Brevet 5000 medal
Only the Easter Arrow can substitute for the Fleche Velocio. The Summer Arrow to York is not recognised by the ACP.
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Ta :)
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1. TEAMS of 3 to 5 riders [Tandems counting as one unit].
This is normally written as teams of 3 to 5 machines which then covers any number of riders on those machines (for example you could have 15 people riding 5 triplets if you were that way inclined)
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They are the basic rules, but not the definitive ones.
Easter Arrows and Summer Arrows have some very slight differences.
I don't know all of the rules, I've never seen them.
One difference is that for the Easter Arrows, no teams may ride together.
But you can ride with other teams in the Summer Arrows.
Noel Simpson, who used to run them, once told me that you had to be a member of Mensa to understand all of the rules.
Good idea to post them here though.
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AUK calendar says:
"Easter Flêches to York. Easter Arrow 360k needed to claim your free ACP medal. Devise your own event and form a team. Entries on official forms ONLY. "
Where do I claim said medal?
Ta.
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Arabella,
You get a free certificate for the Easter Arrow.
The only free medal I can think of is the ACP Brevet 5000 which must include
either the 'real' Fleche Velocio or the local equivalent.
I think you may also need to ride the PBP & a BRM 1000 + a few others to make up the 5000km.
You can't be far off the AUK Brevet 5000 which uses the LEL instad of the PBP
Best of luck with your Ladies Arrow venture.
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Arabella,
You get a free certificate for the Easter Arrow.
The only free medal I can think of is the ACP Brevet 5000 which must include
either the 'real' Fleche Velocio or the local equivalent.
I think you may also need to ride the PBP & a BRM 1000 + a few others to make up the 5000km.
You can't be far off the AUK Brevet 5000 which uses the LEL instad of the PBP
Best of luck with your Ladies Arrow venture.
Site officiel de l'Audax Club Parisien (http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/EN/index.php?showpage=382)
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Arabella,
You get a free certificate for the Easter Arrow.
The only free medal I can think of is the ACP Brevet 5000 which must include
either the 'real' Fleche Velocio or the local equivalent.
I think you may also need to ride the PBP & a BRM 1000 + a few others to make up the 5000km.
You can't be far off the AUK Brevet 5000 which uses the LEL instad of the PBP
Best of luck with your Ladies Arrow venture.
Got the AUK Brevet 5000 twinkling on my wall already :)
And thanks Ian. Though I think I'll stick with the AUK version.
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How does one go about claiming Brevet 5000?
Its not obvious to me from the AUK website.
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How does one go about claiming Brevet 5000?
Its not obvious to me from the AUK website.
G,
ISTR I got in touch with Neville Holgate with a list of my greatest achievements qualifying rides.
Have you done an Easter Arrow? :-X
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How does one go about claiming Brevet 5000?
Its not obvious to me from the AUK website.
Have you done an Easter Arrow? :-X
You know what? I have. Did it in 2008, the year when Easter was in mid February. We got lots of snow. But I dont like to talk about it. ;)
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How does one go about claiming Brevet 5000?
Its not obvious to me from the AUK website.
G,
ISTR I got in touch with Neville Holgate with a list of my greatest achievements qualifying rides.
Have you done an Easter Arrow? :-X
sorry to be thick but which one of the contacts listed is Nevile Holgate - validation secretary?
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This is the chap:
RECORDER:
Neville Holgate
22 Cheltenham Way, Kew, Southport PR8 5NP
Very helpful, IIRC.
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7.CONTROLS : A stamp, receipt or ATM print-out with time of passage must be obtained and the start time and place adhered to.
I presume this means a stamp for each member of the team?
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Yes. The mechanics are just like any DIY/Perm - each person has a card and each has to get proof of passage through each pre-declared control.
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If you cover 400k or more can that be used for an SR 400k
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Yes. It comes into the points system as a 400 perm, so just like any perm of the appropriate distance it can count towards an SR
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Yes. It comes into the points system as a 400 perm, so just like any perm of the appropriate distance it can count towards an SR
many thanks for the info
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The only free medal I can think of is the ACP Brevet 5000 which must include
either the 'real' Fleche Velocio or the local equivalent.
Well, free apart from the 8 or 9 IRCs you have to supply with the application....
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if a team rider is not registered with auk, does he need to prove he has adequate insurance? or is that included in £2 entry fee (assuming full team of five)?
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https://www.audax.uk/about-audax/event-types/special-calendar-events/
https://www.audax.uk/about-audax/audax-uk-regulations/rules-arrows/
Latest 'Rulz' updated by Martin on 21 Jan 2019.
Easter and Summer Arrows to York
The Easter and Summer Arrows to York are team events, based on the format created by Audax Club Parisien for the Flèche Vélocio, in which teams head to the traditional Easter cycling rally in Provence (France).
The aim of these events is to ride as a team, with the goal to cover the longest distance possible during 24 hours, heading towards York from various starting points.
The Easter Arrow is validated by Audax Club Parisien as the UK’s equivalent to the Flèche Vélocio. It may be substituted for the Flèche Velocio when claiming your Randonneur 5000 and 10000 awards from ACP.
The Summer Arrow is run to the same rules but is only validated by Audax UK. Either event may be used towards the AUK Brevet 5000 and other AUK awards.
EASTER & SUMMER ARROWS RULES SUMMARY
1. TEAMS consist of between 3 to 5 members (tandems count as one member e.g. 5 tandems allows 10 riders). The team must ride together, and at least 3 team members must arrive at the finish for the ride to be validated. Only team members who ride the whole distance will be validated.
2. START TIMES. Teams may start from Friday 06:00 to Saturday 10:00hrs. The start time must be adhered to. Different teams may not ride together. If several teams use the same starting point and route the start times for the individual teams shall be spaced at least one hour apart.
3. DISTANCES. At least 360km must be covered during the 24 hours but you should plan more e.g. 400k or 500k as your target.
The team will be validated if the actual distance covered is within 20% above or below the one stated before the ride (with an absolute minimum of 360km) E.g. if you plan a 450km route the team must ride between 360 and 540km
4. ROUTES. Each team designs their own route. Distances will be credited from the shortest distance between control points. Routes can be circular and in any direction but must eventually head for York. Routes are not eligible for AAA points.
5. CONTROLS Each team member shall obtain proof of passage at the starting point and each designated control in the form of a stamp, ATM or till receipt. If proof of passage is not available a photo of the whole team clearly identifying the place (e.g. in front of a road sign) may be substituted.
During the 22nd hour and at the end of the 24th hour the exact time and location of the team must be noted in the brevet card and proof of passage obtained.
The team must ride until the end of the 24th hour. If proof of passage is not available at that point they must continue riding to the next available place where it may be obtained. This does not have to be York, it can be on the way to York.
A minimum of 25km must be ridden between the 22nd hour control point and the finish.
e.g. You start Saturday at 09:00hrs. You must obtain proof of passage between Sunday 06:00 and 07:00hrs (22nd hour), and at 09:00hrs (24th hour). It is 09:00hrs, you have ridden 420km but are in the countryside 10km from the next town. You must ride to this town, obtain proof of passage and note ‘420km’ in your brevet card.
6. SUPPORT No following cars are allowed. Teams may only meet a support car at the designated controls. No rest stop may exceed two hours.
VALIDATION
Brevet Cards must be returned to the organiser within 14 days of the ride [with numbered PoPs to support each brevet]. The Arrow will be validated provided that:
At least 3 team members have ridden the same distance and arrived at the finish together
At least 25km has been ridden between the 22nd hour control and the end of the 24th hour of the ride
The mileage covered within 24 hours is within 20% above or below the one stated before the ride.
ENTRY PROCEDURE
One team member will be designated as the team captain and will be the sole contact with the organiser.
When a team has been formed the captain must send the completed AUK entry forms for each individual team member, together with the entry fee and stamped addressed envelopes for the return of the brevet cards and medals (either to the captain or to the individual team members) [Note: the entry fee can be paid 'online' but the rest must be sent in the post.]
At least two weeks before the event the captain must also send a completed registration form (available from the organiser) detailing the route controls, distances and estimated passing times.
Added ref 'extra distance' ie if a team gets to its final control ('the finish') and there's time (and the inclination) to ride further (verbatim from the 2019 organiser):
"As regards claiming the extra distance:
"1. You must visit any controls you have listed on the entry form in the order you’ve listed them so don’t include any dummy controls.
"2. If having visited all your nominated controls and arrived at the finish you find yourself with lots of time in hand, you can then add some extra distance. You do this by deciding on one or more places as the extra controls and then riding to them and collecting PoP as normal. You DO NOT include these extra controls on the entry form but rather make them up on the hoof when you find yourself at the finish with lots of extra time. Note that you’re still required to ride at least 25km in the final 2 hours so you’ll need to factor this in when deciding on your extra controls. I’ll then calculate the extra distance covered and add it onto your original entry total."
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Of course it is bullshit that "The team must ride until the end of the 24th hour." Virtually no team actually does that, unless they are finishing short of their target.
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Of course it is bullshit that "The team must ride until the end of the 24th hour." Virtually no team actually does that, unless they are finishing short of their target.
Yes, we made that mistake of following it to the letter the first time I did it as captain - cycling slowly to York from Howdenand then having a panic on at the end to get there in time :facepalm:
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Doesn't "ride until x" in Audax sense mean not get a "receipt until x"?
And even then...
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Of course it is bullshit that "The team must ride until the end of the 24th hour." Virtually no team actually does that, unless they are finishing short of their target.
yes it's poorly worded, as for completion, you need to get your PoP before 24hours are up, so you can't possibly still be riding at the end of 24 hours, unless you are late/short of distance.
I'm sure it's not the expectation that everyone records where they are at 24 hours and then arrives at York some time later.
*yes we really were only 1km short of york at 10:00, I know it took us half an hour but we had two punctures*
Perhaps there should be a clarification, after all if people are expected to get PoP in the 22nd hour, and then continue on at least 25km before completing at the end of the 24th hour, that means that last 25km is covered at between 12.5km/h and 8.33km/h unusually slow for audax.
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Of course it is bullshit that "The team must ride until the end of the 24th hour." Virtually no team actually does that, unless they are finishing short of their target.
yes it's poorly worded, as for completion, you need to get your PoP before 24hours are up, so you can't possibly still be riding at the end of 24 hours, unless you are late/short of distance.
I'm sure it's not the expectation that everyone records where they are at 24 hours and then arrives at York some time later.
*yes we really were only 1km short of york at 10:00, I know it took us half an hour but we had two punctures*
Perhaps there should be a clarification, after all if people are expected to get PoP in the 22nd hour, and then continue on at least 25km before completing at the end of the 24th hour, that means that last 25km is covered at between 12.5km/h and 8.33km/h unusually slow for audax.
To LWaB: [""The team must ride until the end of the 24th hour." Virtually no team actually does that unless they are finishing short of their target."] With a 0800 start, our team rode till about 0820. At 0800 we were 10km short of York centre 'in the middle of nowhere' on the cyclepath so rode on to Bishopsthorpe to get a PoP at the shop there. This was by my design: we were not finishing short of our target, we were riding on to achieve 'over-distance'. If the team captain plans too short a route, or the team rides at a speed above that expected, then of course your assertion would be correct. But if the route/distance planned is a 'stretch target' - because the aim is to achieve as high a mileage as possible, using every minute of the 24 hours - then quite likely a team will ride through and beyond the 24 hour moment, and whether that's short of the declared distance or managing a bit of over-distance is irrelevant.
To Wycombe Wheeler ["you need to get your PoP before 24hours are up . . . it's not the expectation that everyone records where they are at 24 hours and then arrives at York some time later.]:
You don't need to get your PoP "before the 24 hours are up". The rules specifically direct how this is to be handled. Some will arrive at their 'finish' before the 24 hour point, nevertheless having done 25km since their 22nd hour PoP. Others will find it easier to ride through the 24 hour moment and get a PoP later.
The rules on riding (and being credited for) more than a team's declared distance are there and Martin's guidance (shared in my post above) points the way. At Easter I deliberately designated Selby as our team's finish, expecting we would get past there, but not being able to predict with how much time to spare. We would be riding on to York regardless. But not designating York offered more flexibility and meant no time was wasted arriving at our 'finish' early and losing the opportunity of extra miles.
If we got to Selby in very good time, I had various excursion options planned, to maximise the distance achieved by our team, going via Tadcaster or even Wetherby to York.
In the event we controlled at Selby at 0718 and headed straight for York. We would have been close to York 'Spoons by 0800 (our 24 hour moment) but 20 minutes earlier @Vorsprung on second wheel indulged in some spectacular A19 acrobatics and damaged his hand during the dismount/landing procedure. We rode on - chapeau to @Vorsprung who got patched/splinted in York hospital and caught his midday train.
With regard to a need for 'clarification' and regarding inferred slowness of the last two plus hours' ride, the key phrase you seem to have disregarded is "at least" or as per the rules "a minimum". IF a team only does 25km in that last period then, yes, the average speed will be slow. But I'd expect teams to be cracking on to their finish, and beyond if they have spare time. Of course this will depend on the team's motivation and ethos: are they just aiming to ride to York or are they trying to achieve as great a distance as they can?
Note the aim/goal of the Easter Arrow: "The aim of these events is to ride as a team, with the goal to cover the longest distance possible during 24 hours". The rules are clear "The team must ride until the end of the 24th hour." Why would one stop enjoying a 24 hour ride before the allotted time was up?
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I've ridden many Fleche Velocios (France), Easter Arrows (UK), Summer Arrows, and Opperman All Day Trials (Oz) since 1993. I don't think there has been any of those fleches where the team hasn't stopped pedalling before the 24hrs actually elapsed, except for the only Easter Arrow I've ridden that wasn't validated! Frankly, it is only the pointy end of the teams that are pushing for every kilometre. Everybody else are setting targets and are happy to achieve them and then stop pedalling with some minutes to spare.
The rule of 'no stop longer than two hours' is another one that is very much ignored for most teams and only recently introduced to the British rules. The Aussies were the first country to run a fleche outside France and they laugh at that requirement.
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I've ridden many Fleche Velocios (France), Easter Arrows (UK), Summer Arrows, and Opperman All Day Trials (Oz) since 1993. I don't think there has been any of those fleches where the team hasn't stopped pedalling before the 24hrs actually elapsed, except for the only Easter Arrow I've ridden that wasn't validated! Frankly, it is only the pointy end of the teams that are pushing for every kilometre. Everybody else are setting targets and are happy to achieve them and then stop pedalling with some minutes to spare.
The rule of 'no stop longer than two hours' is another one that is very much ignored for most teams and only recently introduced to the British rules. The Aussies were the first country to run a fleche outside France and they laugh at that requirement.
You are probably the most experienced Arrow rider on the planet, and still so young. And have exclusively ridden on routes which are achievable, by design, and in teams happy to achieve that, if necessary by spending more time stopped at controls if their speed is above expectation, and finishing 'early'.
I wonder how many teams on this year's Arrow stopped at a control (or elsewhere) for "longer than 2 hours"? I reckon very few. This rule is presumably there to deter people from designing a route where they ride 300km in 14 hours (say), kip for 5 dark hours, and then finish off with 100km in 5 hours. Do you think this schedule would be in the spirit of an Arrow?
Why do Aussies "laugh" at the AUK rule prohibiting stops of more than 2 hours? Since the aim/goal is to ride as far as possible in 24 hours, any team stopping that long (eg to sleep) is putting comfort above achievement - would have thought 'hardriding' Aussies would applaud such a rule, which of course is difficult to enforce in practice.
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Look at the distances for the Fleche Opperman and notice how most of the teams ride 360-380km. Aussies don’t have the British hangup about passing 400km ‘to collect another point’. How many British teams go much beyond 430km for the Easter Arrow? They aren’t pushing for the maximum possible distance either.
Even the two Fleche Velocio that I’ve ridden had many teams finishing at the designated finish point (not town) before 24 hours.
Lay off the sarcasm. Plenty of folk (including other Aussies) have ridden more Arrows than me. Jim Hopper probably tops the list in the UK. It is highly likely that some Continentals have done them in more countries than me.
Edit: 9 x Opperman, 2 x Fleche Velocio, 4 x Summer Arrow, 2 x Easter Arrow + 1 Summer DNF + 1 Easter not homologated.
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So if we arrive at york at 23:59. Lock up head in wait to get served and have receipts timed at 24:08 after starting time, do we get credited with the full distance? Or does some get knocked off? Obviously the time stamp will never be exactly 24 hours after starting, should it be before to prove distance covered in time or after to prove 'cycling until the end of the 24th hour' This is the clarification I would like. I think we arrived after 23hours and 40 minutes. By the time everyone controls and probably eats, 24 hours would be up so no continuing, but we have not ridden until the end of the 24th hour by your interpretation. I doubt many people would have pushed on to claim another few km,
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So if we arrive at york at 23:59. Lock up head in wait to get served and have receipts timed at 24:08 after starting time, do we get credited with the full distance? Or does some get knocked off? Obviously the time stamp will never be exactly 24 hours after starting, should it be before to prove distance covered in time or after to prove 'cycling until the end of the 24th hour' This is the clarification I would like. I think we arrived after 23hours and 40 minutes. By the time everyone controls and probably eats, 24 hours would be up so no continuing, but we have not ridden until the end of the 24th hour by your interpretation. I doubt many people would have pushed on to claim another few km,
Think the rules and associated example (adapted) make the process clear:
"e.g. You start Friday at 09:00hrs. It is 09:00hrs, you have ridden 420km but are in the queue for food 10m from the food counter. You must get to this counter, obtain proof of passage and note ‘420km’ [and I suggest the location] in your brevet card."
No normal rider/team captain would suggest riding past 'Spoons north to Haxby and back to make use of the last 20 minutes. But I had this as one of my options - if we achieved a moving speed of more than 23.2kph - which I was prepared to at least suggest to my team, anticipating a negative response. In the event we didn't make York till 0840 (24:40) partly by design (setting a 'stretch target') and partly because gratuitous stopping for ice creams 13 hours earlier played 'havoc' with my spreadsheet plan ::-) .