Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: PaulF on 15 January, 2018, 07:18:13 am
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is this any different from truing regular spokes? Do I need a different tool? My current one is a disc with notches cut for different nipple sizes
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Some bladed spokes use conventional nipples, some don't. Some have the thread at the hub, some at the rim.
They all have one thing in common, however. The need to keep the spoke from twisting as you adjust the tension. If the spoke key is specific to the wheel model e.g. Shimano Ultegra, the wheels are supplied with the correct spoke keys, with a notch to hold the blade.
If you haven't got the notched key then a pair of smooth jaw pliers will work just as well.
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Thanks, these have the nipple at the rim and are on a low end Trek so I doubt very specific.
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I found, the one time I tried bladed spokes (CX-Ray), that it was easier, though slower, than using thin round spokes (1.5 mm centres). Because any spoke wind-up is plainly visible, I just over turned and turned back all along.
I used a small size adjustable spanner if I wanted to avoid twist, but generally found than turning back was easier.
Your type of spoke key comes under the general heading of "not very good". A Spokey (https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Rixen-Kaul-Spokey-Pro_44094.htm) is considerably better, especially once the spokes start to get tight.
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Your type of spoke key comes under the general heading of "not very good". A Spokey (https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Rixen-Kaul-Spokey-Pro_44094.htm) is considerably better, especially once the spokes start to get tight.
I thought that might be the case - it came with a "complete" set of bike tools, some of which have been OK, others I've replaced as required with "proper" tools as required.
I suppose it's too much to hope for that the industry has settled on a standard nipple size, or small range of sizes?
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....I suppose it's too much to hope for that the industry has settled on a standard nipple size, or small range of sizes?
er, yes, er no, er sort of. Most 14G threaded nipples are catered for by spokey 'red' or spokey 'yellow', which is slightly larger. However, there are a few wheelsets which have nipples that are too large for spokey red, but too small for spokey yellow.
The best tool for these nipples I have found to date is a very worn spokey red. I find myself scratting around in my toolbox for a 35-year old, near bin-fodder veteran-of-hundreds-of-wheelsets spokey when I encounter these nipples....
BTW depending on the shank length and blade width, there are some spoke keys that don't fit well onto some aero spokes, not without modification.
cheers
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Do nipples for 15G threaded spokes typically need a smaller spoke key?
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15G nipples are usually the spokey red size; they fit to rims that accept 14G nipples, so the external shape of the nipple is often identical.
15G nipples are usually identified by a mark on the head; for example DT 15G nipples have a circular groove machined into the top. However not all brands use a clear marking of any kind.
cheers
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A slot, sawn into a small offcut of wood or plastic, works well to hold the blade of aero spokes to prevent/correct wind-up.
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Park Tool has a tool for holding bladed spokes - it's a bit like a dog's bone with slots of different widths cut into the ends to accommodate varying thickness of spoke blade.
When using the spoke key on the nipple you need to hold the blade tool pretty close to the nipple key - DAHIKT!
Rob
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Your type of spoke key comes under the general heading of "not very good". A Spokey (https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Rixen-Kaul-Spokey-Pro_44094.htm) is considerably better, especially once the spokes start to get tight.
There's a spectrum, with the type described by the OP, and the cunningly-sized notches in multi-tools at the 'not very good' end, the Spokey somewhere right of centre (its major failing is the tendency for the metal insert to pingfuckit from the plastic handle at the worst possible moment when things get a bit stiff), and the Park ones at the 'unambiguously good' end. Beware of imitation Spokeys made of cheese.
Sometimes, with small wheels, the best key is the one that actually fits in the gap between spokes.
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Sometimes, with small wheels, the best key is the one that actually fits in the gap between spokes.
This is the first thing I have read on taking a break from dis-spoking a 36H aero 20" wheel with long spoke nipples and 3 that won't budge. >:(
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a Brucey top-tip; if you have seized nipples, try a naked flame on them first to persuade them of the error of their ways. A small micro-blowtorch is ideal, but a cigarette lighter with a fierce flame (such a 'Torjet' one) will do as well.
Makes all the difference.
cheers
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a Brucey top-tip; if you have seized nipples, try a naked flame on them first to persuade them of the error of their ways. A small micro-blowtorch is ideal, but a cigarette lighter with a fierce flame (such a 'Torjet' one) will do as well.
Makes all the difference.
cheers
... or Chill Freeze works too (great product that works a treat on seized un-like metal components .... freezing affects different metals to varying degrees and they often free up) - pouring boiling water on spoke nipples also works.
Rob
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any thermal shock is a good idea, but (with most if not all common spoke/nipple combinations) the CTEs work out in your favour if you use heat on the nipple rather than cold.
Boiling water is fine (and easy to do) but the differential CTE is so small that the 'shock' and the differential expansion is likely to be small.
For example the differential CTE is usually in the range 2-5 ppm/C so a +80C temperature rise on a 14G spoke with a differential CTE of 3 (say) is going to give you
2x10^-3 x 80 x 3 x 10^-6 = 0.48 x 10^-6m
or 0.48 microns.
If you use a naked flame and heat the nipple to ~220C instead then you will get ~x2.5 as much movement, plus any oxide in the screw thread will start to dry out and this will shrink it.
I find that I can reliably remove brass nipples from stainless steel spokes on 70 year old Raleigh wheels :o using a naked flame as a heat source.
cheers
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I found the problem was the nipples'rim interface. :facepalm:
(https://image.ibb.co/jWG1cR/P1100186.jpg)
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a (cut down) spokey will work better on a wheel like that, IME.
cheers
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I have 5 different types of spoke keys to try - that one works best.
It does give sore thumbs, though.