what 3 words

[Diver300]

yeah, it should be that when you dial 999/112/911 from a smart phone the location is just passed over right away.

I agree. I thought that the requirement for that was why phones ended up with GPS receivers, as cell location is only accurate to 10s of metres in towns.

On a marine VHF radio, there is a dedicated button for "Call the coastguard and tell them where I am. Do not expect that I will be able to speak". It tends to be under a cover that has to be flipped up.

Similarly marine GPS navigators have one button for "Add a new favourite position as here, cancel all other navigation and direct me back to that favourite position". It's labelled "Man Overboard".

[quixoticgeek]

For the umpteenth time: The phones can already do it.  It's called AML and it's in all the recent Android and IOS builds, and doesn't require the user to do anything other than call the emergency services.  The problem is that for some reason the BRITISH emergency services haven't got the required systems at their end to receive the location.  Furthermore, some of them seem to have bought into W3W as an inferior solution to a solved problem.

Yes. But as we have seen with so many things. AML is not invented here. There for it is not suitable. The solution used by the British emergency services needs to be created by British people, using British brains and British ideas. We can't just adopt an international standard without at least making an incompatible version...

J

[Kim]

Yes. But as we have seen with so many things. AML is not invented here. There for it is not suitable. The solution used by the British emergency services needs to be created by British people, using British brains and British ideas. We can't just adopt an international standard without at least making an incompatible version...

It was invented by none other than our-favourite-telco!  https://eena.org/knowledge-hub/press-releases/uk-shows-the-way-towards-accurate-caller-location-an-example-for-others-to-replicate/

Maybe it's since been tainted by being adopted as a EUROPEAN standard...


I suspect the problem is at worst political, or at best Dunning-Kruger related.  Anyone with relevant technology experience is bound to think "someone must have worked out a better way to do this" and discover AML with about 5 minutes of googling.  I'll be charitable and assume that emergency services might be run by people who know a lot about emergencies and not very much about telephones.

[Jaded]

w3w sounds brilliant and is marketed.

AML sounds dull and isn't marketed.

[Kim]

w3w sounds brilliant and is marketed.

AML sounds dull and isn't marketed.

That's the realistically tragic explanation.

[Cudzoziemiec]

The BBC article on the previous page mentions three other systems, none of which is AML:

There are alternative systems such as OS Locate, a free app provided by Ordnance Survey, that allows people to locate themselves by GPS latitude and longitude co-ordinates as well as altitude, even without a mobile signal.

Sarloc and Phone Finder are tools that have been developed by mountain rescue team members, and these are used whenever possible to obtain an accurate location.

Googling "phone finder" gets you, surprise surprise, comparison sites for buying phones.

[Kim]

Sarloc seems like a good implementation if AML hasn't been invented; it doesn't require anything to be installed on the user's phone, but it does require a data connection.  AML can operate entirely by SMS, which is more robust when the signal is marginal.

[Regulator]

For the umpteenth time: The phones can already do it.  It's called AML and it's in all the recent Android and IOS builds, and doesn't require the user to do anything other than call the emergency services.  The problem is that for some reason the BRITISH emergency services haven't got the required systems at their end to receive the location.  Furthermore, some of them seem to have bought into W3W as an inferior solution to a solved problem.

(Yes, this doesn't solve the problem of locating dumbphone users.  But neither does W3W.  We still need operators who can understand map coordinates.  Older smartphones that don't have AML but can run W3W are an edge case.)

w3w sounds brilliant and is marketed.

AML sounds dull and isn't marketed.

I understand that there is an investigation going on into how W3W was adopted by the ambulance services.  It has been suggested that 'inappropriate behaviour' may have occured...

[Polar Bear]

W3W wasn't created by one of Hancock's mates down the pub was it?'

[lissotriton]

W3W wasn't created by one of Hancock's mates down the pub was it?'

Created by a BBC employee, and now part owned by Channel 4. They know how to get as much publicity as possible.

[Regulator]

W3W wasn't created by one of Hancock's mates down the pub was it?'

Created by a BBC employee, and now part owned by Channel 4. They know how to get as much publicity as possible.

I don't think it was.   None of the three founders appears to have worked for the BBC, although one has appeared on several quiz shows on the BBC.

[lissotriton]

Jack Waley-Cohen has worked as a question editor for Only Connect.

[Regulator]

Jack Waley-Cohen has worked as a question editor for Only Connect.

That doesn't mean he's a BBC employee.  Only Connect is made by an independent production company (as is much of the Beeb's output).

[lissotriton]

If you want to be pedantic. Anyway, it's all about having connections to the top TV presenters and newspaper journalists.

[MikeFromLFE]

I noticed today that the new signs being installed by the organisation I volunteer for are (thankfully) eschewing the current w3w fad.

[Cudzoziemiec]

So where is AML going wrong in the UK? Why is it not being used? It's in most phones, so that's probably not the problem. Do emergency operators have the facility to use it? And if so, how do they get it to the actual emergency personnel? When you make an emergency call in the UK, you speak to an operator, who then alerts the relevant emergency service(s): I'm not sure if the operator passes your location and problem to the ambulance/fire/police/etc dispatchers who then pass it on to the relevant persons or if the operator contacts the personnel directly, but is this step the problem? The operator's equipment has the location from AML but they need something verbal to give to the cops and rescuers?

[fimm]

... expecting the average person in the street (or on the fells) to be able to use a map and compass ...

Actually, in my view, if you are going up a hill/fell/mountain you should be able to use a map and compass and be able to give a grid reference for where you are.
Just like if you are going to be put in charge of a ton of dangerous machinery you should be trained to use it.

[hubner]

... expecting the average person in the street (or on the fells) to be able to use a map and compass ...

Actually, in my view, if you are going up a hill/fell/mountain you should be able to use a map and compass and be able to give a grid reference for where you are.
Just like if you are going to be put in charge of a ton of dangerous machinery you should be trained to use it.

Yep.

[Feanor]

The OS Locate app for smartphones (free) provides a compass and a location in OSGB Grid Ref.

Needs no phone signal, it just does a Co-ordinate Reference System transform from the GPS WGS-84 to OSGB.
It's a handy companion app to a map and compass.
It's also got a view which emulates a classic Silva compass ( including the Silva logo )!

[Polar Bear]

Yes, it's good.  Very good.  I am impressed with it.  I was able to get map references from Google maps but OS Locate does it without faffage.

[Polar Bear]

... expecting the average person in the street (or on the fells) to be able to use a map and compass ...

Actually, in my view, if you are going up a hill/fell/mountain you should be able to use a map and compass and be able to give a grid reference for where you are.
Just like if you are going to be put in charge of a ton of dangerous machinery you should be trained to use it.

Yep.

Absolutely.  Although we know how some folk just expect somebody else to do the difficult bits for them.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Looks nice, but the compass doesn't work on my phone. Nor does the altitude, but I do get a grid ref.

[Polar Bear]

Are you moving when you check compass function?

[Feanor]

Those features may depend on the hardware available on the phone.
I dont know if all phones have magnetometers or barometric elevation.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Are you moving when you check compass function?

Moving or stopped. I think it's just because the phone itself is old and fairly basic, as smarties go, like Feanor says.