Eee PC901 - XP or Linux?

[border-rider]

Because you turn it on and it works.  You don't have to fiddle with it despite protestations to the contrary.  You plug in a new gadget and it works.   

See Rob's comments above.  That's actually more likely to happen with Ubuntu than Vista

I don't buy the 'It's less stable'.   Windows is generally very reliable.   To be fair, businesses wouldn't use Windows if it wasn't reliable.  Time costs them money.     

Try both, and then make the judgment about stability. Businesses use Win because that is what everyone uses (because PCs come with it)  so there is no retraining needed and there is total compatibility across workplaces.  I'd actually argue that for those 2 reasons alone Win is a better business platform than Linux.  What I can't comprehend is why anyone would choose t use it at home

But the resource is there so what's the problem? 

That you have to replace a machine every 18 months because it has become incapable of running even basic applications as a result of software bloat.   The spec needed to decently run Vista is  astonishingly high - there's the sheer waste of all that, the power consumption and just the lack of elegance of having to use faster and faster processors and more-and-more memory just to use Word.

Precautions work well.

But all that continual updating of AV software etc, Windows patches, reboot after rebot  - and how often do we see people on here (where we're all pretty IT-literate - with malware problems.  My mother-in-law just wouldn't be able or willing to keep it all up to date

Windows v Linux is one of those Campag v Shimano debates.

 
it's more like driving to the shops vs taking the bike

Sometimes, yes, you have to drive but you damn well should feel guilty when you do 

But yes there are a few apps that won't run natively under Linux. Not the fault of the OS though, and for most people that won't be an issue.

[Polar Bear]

I just cannot agree with your premise.

I am currently using an machine that is five years old running XP.   I will be running XP for quite a few years yet.   I'm not intending to move to Vista any time soon. 

Businesses are big enough and powerful enough to choose.   The reason Windows is so popular is that same reason that Shimano is.  It is ultimately reliable enough and suitable enough.  Whether it is the ultimate/absolute solution or not is always open to debate but it works for most people most of the time.   I'm pretty sure any corporate buyer can say to their supplier, 'No thanks, I don't want Windows.'.   

So it updates.  So what?  What's the big issue?   

As for trying it, I have done just that with Campag v Shimano.   I find myself with so-called better Campag stuff that seems to be going out of date faster than it's Shimano equivalent.   I also find myself forever having to go 'under the hood' with Campag whereas the Shimano runs and runs and runs.  It just does. 

Sorry, gruppo A v gruppo B, os X v os L.   Car and bike are not alike.  Oh, and no, I don't know that feeling because I do not drive.   

If somebody was able to market linux out of the box with the same sort of instant connectivity as Windows and that it could run the apps and peripherals that Windows can out of the box then I'd be happy to give it a whirl, just like I have done with Campag.       

[Charlotte]

If somebody was able to market linux out of the box with the same sort of instant connectivity as Windows and that it could run the apps and peripherals that Windows can out of the box then I'd be happy to give it a whirl, just like I have done with Campag.       

I know I'm a bit of a numpty on this, but I thought that was the idea with Ubuntu...?

[border-rider]

Businesses are big enough and powerful enough to choose.   The reason Windows is so popular is that same reason that Shimano is.  It is ultimately reliable enough and suitable enough.  Whether it is the ultimate/absolute solution or not is always open to debate but it works for most people most of the time.   I'm pretty sure any corporate buyer can say to their supplier, 'No thanks, I don't want Windows.'.   

They can, and they save a shedload of money on corporate licences.  Mrs MV's work looked at this, and the IT geeks were all in favour.  What stopped it was the retraining needed - it would have soaked up a load of time and money - and the issues of compatibility with the existing Win machines.  It's just much easier to manage a monoculture. 

If you believe that Win is more reliable, I can only assume you've never really tried the alternative.

So it updates.  So what?  What's the big issue?   

Reboots,  in a word.  Rebooting after the AV updates, after Office updates, after Win patches itself.  And the pretty strong chance that an update will bork what was a working system.  See XP SP 3 as an example.

As for trying it, I have done just that with Campag v Shimano.   I find myself with so-called better Campag stuff that seems to be going out of date faster than it's Shimano equivalent.   I also find myself forever having to go 'under the hood' with Campag whereas the Shimano runs and runs and runs.  It just does. 

Not quite the same thing

If somebody was able to market linux out of the box with the same sort of instant connectivity as Windows and that it could run the apps and peripherals that Windows can out of the box then I'd be happy to give it a whirl

That would be the eeePC.  Of course, you can't run a Win-only app on it but then I can't run Kompozer under XP.  C'est la vie

I'm not anti Win - we have a media PC that uses XP MCE and most of my Linux machines are dual boot - but I do think that except for certain specialist applications, it's just not as stable and not as fast and is more resource-hungry - which is why I use it day-to-day for work.

[Polar Bear]

If somebody was able to market linux out of the box with the same sort of instant connectivity as Windows and that it could run the apps and peripherals that Windows can out of the box then I'd be happy to give it a whirl, just like I have done with Campag.       

I know I'm a bit of a numpty on this, but I thought that was the idea with Ubuntu...?

Bit of a numpty myself too ...

I think that is the idea but for instance, no version of linux can work with voice recognition software yet and that is a big requirement for me.   Bit strange really as VR has been around for years.   Be nice if they sorted it so as to give us a viable competitor. 

[Polar Bear]

MV, I didn't say that Windows was more reliable, I just said that it is reliable.  That is entirely different.

I haven't upgraded to SP3 yet on any of my machines.  My world hasn't ended.  It's not compulsory.

But you see, you say, there is, and then you qualify.   Why would I buy something that doesn't do what I need it to do most?   

I'm not pro win.  It just happens to suit my needs rather better than people seem to be comfortable with which puzzles me. 

[Jakob]

Try both, and then make the judgment about stability. Businesses use Win because that is what everyone uses (because PCs come with it)  so there is no retraining needed and there is total compatibility across workplaces.  I'd actually argue that for those 2 reasons alone Win is a better business platform than Linux.  What I can't comprehend is why anyone would choose t use it at home

But yes there are a few apps that won't run natively under Linux. Not the fault of the OS though, and for most people that won't be an issue.

I can stream baseball (which I subscribe to) on Linux and it crashes out when more than 1 apps try to access the sound.
 Several others such issues exists and they don't on Win/Mac. Sure they can probably be fixed if you go around and look for fixes/drivers, but that defeats the purpose of a home machine.
 Further, I *know* how to fix windows...and if I really get a problem, I know people who knows better than me.
 Also, I have had no stability issues with Vista. None. Even less than I've had with XP.
Finally, there's compatibility. Photoshop, Illustrator, my Nikon software, games, etc.
There's absolutely no contest. Yeah, there's free software that sorta does the same, but does it nowhere near as well and is full of bugs.
 I'm dealing with cutting edge software at work and are used to working around bugs and to some extent use software in ways the designer did not plan for, but when at home, I want stuff that works...first time, without having to spend hours scouring for fixes.
Windows, whether you like it or not, does that.
This is the same for the majority of users. They want familiarity and stuff that does roughly what they expect.

[border-rider]

I think that is the idea but for instance, no version of linux can work with voice recognition software yet and that is a big requirement for me.   Bit strange really as VR has been around for years.   Be nice if they sorted it so as to give us a viable competitor. 

Yep, there you are indeed limited to Win.  Problem is, Linux is developed kind of piecemeal.  That has the advantage of free/chap and diverse, and stable, but with holes in the pantheon of software

I've always said that there are specialist apps where there's no sensible alternative to Win - our media PC being one.  I did try MythTV (Linux equiv) but it just wasn't going to work.  XP MCE works OK, but with the usual Win lack of stability so that 99 times out of 100 everything is fine, and the the one other time it just hangs or crashes.
But coming back to the original point I responded to - if you are doing standard vanilla home/office apps then Ubuntu is better, faster, cheaper & more stable and uses less power. I just can't see the point of putting XP on an EeePC.

[border-rider]

I'm not pro win.  It just happens to suit my needs rather better than people seem to be comfortable with which puzzles me. 

What i was saying was that I couldn't see any benefit to Win.  If it works for you, fine.

[border-rider]

I can stream baseball (which I subscribe to) on Linux and it crashes out when more than 1 apps try to access the sound.
 Several others such issues exists and they don't on Win/Mac. Sure they can probably be fixed if you go around and look for fixes/drivers, but that defeats the purpose of a home machine.

But that's exactly what you have to do on most Win machines "Download missing plugin.  Reboot etc etc"

Further, I *know* how to fix windows...and if I really get a problem, I know people who knows better than me.

Familiarity

 

Also, I have had no stability issues with Vista. None. Even less than I've had with XP.

This would be the OS that half the planet refuses to upgrade to ?

And why do you expect less stability with Linux ?

. Yeah, there's free software that sorta does the same, but does it nowhere near as well and is full of bugs.

And Win software isn't ?

This is the same for the majority of users. They want familiarity and stuff that does roughly what they expect.

Then I'd recommend Ubuntu.

As I said earlier, I set up an Ubuntu machine for Mrs MV's mother and it just works - no constant rebooting when the AV upgrades, no Win downloads forcing restarts when she's in the middle of doing something, no random error messages....

[cc93]

Well I've had the 4211 (XP) a week now & it's very good

All programs loaded first time, and running without any issues...

All devices plugged'n'played ditto (Garmin GPS drivers already there)....

comes out of hibernation in a few seconds...

No crashes or re-boots needed.....

but I'm sure the Linux version would be better 

[Jakob]

But that's exactly what you have to do on most Win machines "Download missing plugin.  Reboot etc etc"

I had to download the latest flash plug-in (No reboot required and you would have to do the same on Linux), an update to firefox (which would have been the same on Linux) and then I chose to update Acrobat Reader (Which did require a reboot).

Sorry. This one works out of the box and it works well. The only performance issue I have, is with the internet connection at the place I'm staying at.

[bobajobrob]

I chose to update Acrobat Reader (Which did require a reboot).

Noes!

Sorry. This one works out of the box and it works well. The only performance issue I have, is with the internet connection at the place I'm staying at.

Yeah, it works great until:

(a) you use it for a long time, in which case it turns into a big, slow bag of shite*
(b) you let someone else use it, in which case it turns into a big bag of spyware and virus infected shite

* slow is an understatement, I'd describe it as a snail trying to complete a 100m sprint, in some cases it's slow from word go - mrs bob's shiny new thinkpad R61 windows laptop takes about 10 minutes to boot, frankly it's a joke.

[border-rider]

Sorry.  This one works out of the box and it works well.

Don't be sorry

The question I was asking was why an OS that is more resource hungry and less stable is necessarily better ?

So far we've heard that XP when first installed and/or on a good day works fine.  I'd hope so, really.

[Wendy]

I can't see why either are necessarily better, and I'm chuckling away at the pitbulls on either side of the debate.

p.s. I was the first MCSE in Zimbabwe, and my MCP id is 25349, being so short shows quite how long ago I qualified!!

[frankly frankie]

It's just bizarre.  I have to say I'm 100% with Polar B on this.  I've tried to like Linux, I've done at least 10 Linux installs over several years, using 6 different distros so far - and yes OK they 'just work' (big deal) but by and large they don't 'just do what I want' (which is admittedly mainly 'access and manipulate my old Win-originated files').

Most of the anti-Win diatribe is just plain misbegotten - for example:

I installed Ubuntu on my parents' Dell because their windows install with full Norton crapware had got slower and slower and eventually ground to a complete halt. It was completely unusable.

Why blame Win for Norton's shortcomings?  I agree 100% - Norton is crap.

Under Ubuntu you just add a new LaserJet printer and tell it the IP address. Job done. Under windows, you have to hunt around on the HP site for some executable. Let's say the executable doesn't contain a virus, you still have to download it and click through 50 pages of gumph just to add a printer. HP DeskJet? Just Works with Ubuntu,

Why blame Win for HP's bloatware routines?  I agree 100% - they're crap.  Win has native support for both Deskjets and Laserjets and all the aggro is HP-originated, not Win-originated.

But that's exactly what you have to do on most Win machines "Download missing plugin.  Reboot etc etc"

Download - "not just now".
Reboot - "later".
What's so hard about that.  I've never encountered a compulsory reboot in these circumstances.  My PC gets power-cycled at least once every 24 hours, so that's how long it takes to update the system.

But coming back to the original point I responded to - if you are doing standard vanilla home/office apps then Ubuntu is better, faster, cheaper & more stable and uses less power. I just can't see the point of putting XP on an EeePC.

Back on topic and no argument about any of that, though I think more generally the resources thing is neither here nor there - resources are cheap as chips (part of me wishes they weren't).

[harrumph]

...I just can't see the point of putting XP on an EeePC.

What about Win2K? Will it work on an Eee PC?

I know nothing... except that USB works properly with 2K (as it does not with 98SE), and 2K isn't spyware (as XP is). If I have to have Windows (and it looks as though I do), 2K is the one version I could put up with.

[bobajobrob]

Why blame Win for Norton's shortcomings?  I agree 100% - Norton is crap.

Because windows is or has been insecure, you need some sort of virus and spyware protection on there. Take Linux, there are no or very few viruses available, the reasons for which are outside the scope of this reply.

Why blame Win for HP's bloatware routines?  I agree 100% - they're crap.  Win has native support for both Deskjets and Laserjets and all the aggro is HP-originated, not Win-originated.

Have you tried to add a networked laserjet on windows without using the HP download? I tried and couldn't figure it out, perhaps I missed something. On Linux it's a piece of cake.

Reboot - "later".

Yeah and it pops up again in two minutes time. Great. What I tend to do is move it almost right off the screen and leave it there. The only problem is that it comes back when you lock and unlock the screen.

My PC gets power-cycled at least once every 24 hours, so that's how long it takes to update the system.

My PC gets power cycled whenever it needs it, maybe once per month. It goes into suspend daily.

[harrumph]

My (Linux) Eee PC901 is on order, and I have bought an OEM copy of Win2K on eBay for it 

I shall use 2000Lite to get rid of the unwanted components of Win2K (Outlook Express and Internet Explorer).

I'll let you know how it turns out.