Sportive trumps Road Race

[GrahamG]

Mario Cipollini is now on my shit list. Our club road race has had to be postponed, all bookings for HQ, officials, etc. cancelled and on hold, all because there's a sportive on. The police can't give us permission for the events because they know there's another event on that is using the route - and because it's not a race, and therefore they do not need permission, they can't stop it or get them to change the route 

It's the http://www.mcipollinigranfondo.co.uk/ £100 a pop entry.

It's not even a case of whoever notified the police first - they have no control whatsoever over the sportive so they have no choice but to refuse permission to the race. So there you go, pretend races officially trump actual grass-roots level road racing.

F**knuggets.

[mattc]

Well said that man!

Trying to be positive ... I've always suspected Mario was more git than man, more diva than athlete, but I'll defend him anyway; he probably had sod all to do with the admin of this event, and doesn't have a clue about UK racing. It might be fun to contact him directly and explain how "his" event has f*cked over a proper race.

( What is it about Brits and italian ex-pros? Oxford has a bit of this disease at the moment  )

[GrahamG]

Oh yeah, nothing to do with him (sure he'll get a fee though!). There's no way they'd change the route - it's section where there's not much choice for main road avoidance. I did wonder if the same would happen if it was an audax though, there'd certainly be no issue from riders waiting a bit whilst a race rolled through (it's just a couple of minutes a time with out-riders blocking junctions for the pack), but i suspect that some sportive riders would shit a brick if they thought they'd have a few minutes knocked off their finishing time.....

[Karla]

Bl dy fakers. 

I do like the idea of writing a whinge letter to Mario, though.  Do the sportive organisers even know about your road race?:

[Euan Uzami]

One solution would be to run an absolutely MASSIVE audax on the same day, using partially the same route, but not quite. Get some of the audax riders to dress in team kit and then some of the sportivists will follow the audaxers and go the wrong way. Since they largely don't carry any gps or routesheet, mass confusion will break out among them. 

[Ewan Houzami]

Agree with mattc. Write to him. I'd imagine he'd be unaware of the conflict, and would like to think he'd come down on the side of grass-roots racing

'Pretend race'      (Exactly how I feel about these events too.)

[GrahamG]

Club meeting Monday night - will probably discuss the options then. It surely can't be that hard for them to change the route (it's only 70 odd miles anyway - it's shorter than the bloody race I think!)

[David Martin]

Can you apply for a Traffic Regulation Order that will close the road to all non-participants for the duration of the race?

[GrahamG]

Can you apply for a Traffic Regulation Order that will close the road to all non-participants for the duration of the race?

Wishful thinking - no way the council would grant TTRO for this kind of event because it's not necessary for a rolling road closure. Hell, even the tour of Britain only had closures for the start and finishes!


Just found out a bit more detail from the club chairman (organiser) - it wasn't just him who got in touch, someone from British Cycling contacted the organiser and they basically said no. Apparently they could quite easily re-route to run around the other side of Chew Valley Lake with no additional climbs/extra distance etc.

Can not fucking believe that they even refused a request from British Cycling...

[GrahamG]

Oh and the sportive is being organised in association with pro cycling magazine.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

So messages to the magazine would seemingly be in order.

[Rich753]

On the other hand ...

Which event would have the greater participation?  If you want to encourage folks to ride their bikes more do you do that by having club road races or by having big sportif events?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Seems kind of silly that a cycle racing magazine is giving its support to an event that is actively restricting a cycle race.

[citoyen]

Oh and the sportive is being organised in association with pro cycling magazine.

I'm sure Cycling Weekly would be interested to know this. 

Although since I suspect much of their advertising income is derived from sportives, they might be wary of treading on people's toes. 

d.

[vorsprung]

One solution would be to run an absolutely MASSIVE audax on the same day, using partially the same route, but not quite. Get some of the audax riders to dress in team kit and then some of the sportivists will follow the audaxers and go the wrong way. Since they largely don't carry any gps or routesheet, mass confusion will break out among them. 

I don't think that AUK would want to get involved in this shitstorm

Cipollini Corp(tm) would probably appreciate that all publicity is good publicity and not care about your race getting the chop if it helps to promote their event

[GrahamG]

On the other hand ...

Which event would have the greater participation?  If you want to encourage folks to ride their bikes more do you do that by having club road races or by having big sportif events?

That's kind of irrelevant really isn't it? Fact is that there are certain constraints concerned with a road race being held on public roads, whilst a sportive is almost infinitely flexible (within reason of course- a couple of months notice say?) and it would not be terribly difficult to change a small part of a route that runs on open roads with riders who are not racing and can quite easily do right turns, use narrow country lanes etc. etc.

The club has had to cap race entries at about 85 - sorry if that's not enough to compete with the sportive event, but considering there are not many road races easily accessible from Bristol and even fewer that accommodate cat 2/3, it will be a genuine loss to the sport in our region if it can't be re-arranged. Additionally, the racing calendar is carefully established in advance to avoid conflict and ensure that participation is maximised, i.e. avoiding competition, so we run the risk of clashing dates with other events which just undermines every race affected.

[GrahamG]

Besides, what inspires people to participate more than the country's pros? Mark Cavendish, Bradley Wiggins, Hoy, etc. etc. it was grass roots sports that got them on the journey to being a professional. A couple of hundred people riding around the countryside dropping gel wrappers with half the field walking up anything over 15% is hardly going to inspire kids to ride now is it?!

[JT]

Besides, what inspires people to participate more than the country's pros? Mark Cavendish, Bradley Wiggins, Hoy, etc. etc. it was grass roots sports that got them on the journey to being a professional. A couple of hundred people riding around the countryside dropping gel wrappers with half the field walking up anything over 15% is hardly going to inspire kids to ride now is it?!

Nice to see elitism alive and well in the local club scene. 

I understand your dismay and annoyance at what's happened, and how important it is that road racing is not sidelined in this country, but honestly your general attitude towards sportives does you no favours at all.

[Rich753]

I understand your frustration but taking what you say at face value I respectfully suggest both sets of organisers needs their heads banging together!

Sportif should be organised with discussion/consultation with local cycling clubs, cycling clubs can be flexible on organising road race dates.  But for sure I don't buy into "road race good, sportif bad " mentality

nb cross post with JT saying similar views to mine.

[citoyen]

but honestly your general attitude towards sportives does you no favours at all.

To be fair, Graham's comments read like they're borne of frustration rather than a sincere dislike of sportives. This is an internet forum, a perfect environment for venting of spleens. I'm sure he'd be more equivocal in a different context.

d.

[JT]

but honestly your general attitude towards sportives does you no favours at all.

To be fair, Graham's comments read like they're borne of frustration rather than a sincere dislike of sportives. This is an internet forum, a perfect environment for venting of spleens. I'm sure he'd be more equivocal in a different context.

d.

So what are you saying, he's two-faced? 

I know Graham's frustrated - I recognised that in my reply - but I'd wager more members of YACF ride sportives than race so this probably isn't the best place to make snide comments about sportive riders.

[GrahamG]

Besides, what inspires people to participate more than the country's pros? Mark Cavendish, Bradley Wiggins, Hoy, etc. etc. it was grass roots sports that got them on the journey to being a professional. A couple of hundred people riding around the countryside dropping gel wrappers with half the field walking up anything over 15% is hardly going to inspire kids to ride now is it?!

Nice to see elitism alive and well in the local club scene. 

I understand your dismay and annoyance at what's happened, and how important it is that road racing is not sidelined in this country, but honestly your general attitude towards sportives does you no favours at all.

it is just frustration, I'm happy with everyone riding but my pointwith that particular post was that whilst sportives get us old buggers out riding, it's our racers that inspite the next generation of riders

[Rich753]

"that whilst sportives get us old buggers out riding, it's our racers that inspire the next generation of riders"

I suggest that's not quite the truism you might think - son of a pal was (is) a promising hill runner but got injured so took up riding a road bike to keep fit, got the bug, entered a few sportifs which he treated as races and decided to see how far he could go and spent a season in Belgium racing on cobbles.  Not thanks to any road race culture in the UK but becos' the sportif experience inspired him.  Which suggests to me that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and I wouldn't be at all surprised in the Cipo event had it's fair share of aspirant racers.

So my frustration is that at teh end of it we are all on the same side!  And these petty minor rivalries don't do anybody any good!

[citoyen]

I have nothing against sportives but they are rides that exist purely for their own sake. In terms of a career in racing, sportives are a dead end.

Sportives may give you the bug, which is great, but they won't get you noticed by Shane Sutton.

The real problem here is not racers thinking they're more important than sportive riders, it's the other way round - a pre-existing road race has been trampled all over by a sportive. Why can't the sportive organisers be more accommodating by re-routing their ride so both can exist together? That's what they'd do if they thought we were all on the same side, surely?

d.

[mattc]

"that whilst sportives get us old buggers out riding, it's our racers that inspire the next generation of riders"

I suggest that's not quite the truism you might think - son of a pal was (is) a promising hill runner but got injured so took up riding a road bike to keep fit, got the bug, entered a few sportifs which he treated as races and decided to see how far he could go and spent a season in Belgium racing on cobbles.  Not thanks to any road race culture in the UK but becos' the sportif experience inspired him.  Which suggests to me that there is more than one way to skin a cat,

It suggests to me that road races are a lot harder to organise due to the regs. Did you read the OP?

(Do you think Sportives would exist without real racing?)

I guess you also think £100 is a reasonable charge, for "encouraging new riders". 

OK, so I'm venting a bit now; but with respect Rich, your view of sportives is plain wrong, and Graham's whinge is completely justified. So there

Graham; I doubt contacting Mario will make anything happen, but it might produce positive effects down the line. He might send you a signed zebra skinsuit!