making a gpx on the fly

[Martin]

I know that bikely allows you to do it but it's err slow at the best of times and simply infuriating otherwise,

is there a way of creating a gpx on mapsource that will behave like a real one? (obviously without the timings)

(so I can check it for distance / AAA for DIY perms?)

[Sergeant Pluck]

As in, following roads? Mapsource does that OK for me - just intersperse a minimal set of necessary via points and it'll calculate a route.

(I've probably misunderstood your query).

[Greenbank]

(so I can check it for distance / AAA for DIY perms?)

GPX files generated by various bits of software will be useless for assessing AAA points for DIY perms. For example, plotting the Bryan Chapman route on bikely it reckons there's only 3800m of climbing (the real figure is nearer 8300m).

GPX files from actual GPSes are far more useful for determining AAA points, even then they need some data massaging and smoothing. Some software/sites are better than others. YMMV.

[Martin]

the reason I ask is that I'm getting a lot of enquiries as to whether a DIY by GPS is OK and the simple answer is that unless they have already ridden it I don't know; even Mapsource routes saved as a gpx won't work.

also; there have been various posts on the Yahoo list about how easy it is to fabricate a gpx for AUK purposes which I'd like to debunk

[fuaran]

You can use WinGDB3 to convert from a GDB or GPX route to a track.
http://www.sackman.info/

[PloddinPedro]

You can use WinGDB3 to convert from a GDB or GPX route to a track.
http://www.sackman.info/

I have only a scant understanding of this .gpx lark but as someone who uses Tracks rather than Routes, I've been looking for a long time for some software that will convert a Route generated in Garmin Mapsource into a Track. I tried WinGDB3 once (I think) but it didn't do what I required. That is to say, if I create a Route in Mapsource, it will provide a "wiggly line" exactly following the roads on the on-screen map and joining the points I dictate the Route is to pass through. It's very easy to generate Routes this way; a few points placed judiciously and the software does the tedious joining up part. All that's then needed is to convert it to a Track, which Mapsource won't do.

So, you say, here's where WinGDB3 (and other similar programmes) comes in. BUT - in my experience the Track you get after "converting a Route" is actually just a series of waypoints joined by straight lines. As far as I can see see, this is because a Track is fundamentally "a trail of breadcrumbs" whereas a Route is a series of waypoints joined by the software. If you create a Route with a sufficient number of waypoints and convert it to a Track you'll get a more detailed trail but it'll still comprise only the number of waypoints used originally.

Or to put it another way: what's needed is a programme that will look at the path followed by a Route generated by a series of waypoints joined by "follow road" software and automatically lay a trail of breadcrumbs (trackpoints) at close intervals allong that path, just as a GPS unit does when you actually ride the course, enabling you to save a Track rather than a Route file.

So far as I am aware no such technology exists; if it does I'll be delighted to learn of it.

[fuaran]

Or to put it another way: what's needed is a programme that will look at the path followed by a Route generated by a series of waypoints joined by "follow road" software and automatically lay a trail of breadcrumbs (trackpoints) at close intervals allong that path, just as a GPS unit does when you actually ride the course, enabling you to save a Track rather than a Route file.

That's just what WinGDB3 does. Note: this feature only works on GDB files generated by Mapsource, not GPX files. I think the GDB file actually contains the routing data as a series of hidden waypoints, as well as the waypoints / viapoints you manually place.

I just tested this out:
Plot a route in Mapsource, using autorouting, only placing 3 waypoints.
Save as a GDB file.
Run WinGDB3, choose option 11, "convert routes to tracks with all route points"
Then open the generated file in Mapsource, it now contains a track with 588 trackpoints, which follows the original Mapsource route.

[MSeries]

Mapsource generates real GPX files. They may not contain the information you want though, no altitude data for example.

But for DIY approval you just need a list of controls. The recorded track once it's been ridden will contain the altitude data for validations. At least that's how Danial and I did it in the trial.

[Manotea]

Or to put it another way: what's needed is a programme that will look at the path followed by a Route generated by a series of waypoints joined by "follow road" software and automatically lay a trail of breadcrumbs (trackpoints) at close intervals allong that path, just as a GPS unit does when you actually ride the course, enabling you to save a Track rather than a Route file.

That's just what WinGDB3 does. Note: this feature only works on GDB files generated by Mapsource, not GPX files. I think the GDB file actually contains the routing data as a series of hidden waypoints, as well as the waypoints / viapoints you manually place.

I just tested this out:
Plot a route in Mapsource, using autorouting, only placing 3 waypoints.
Save as a GDB file.
Run WinGDB3, choose option 11, "convert routes to tracks with all route points"
Then open the generated file in Mapsource, it now contains a track with 588 trackpoints, which follows the original Mapsource route.

and if you like, you can then copy and paste the track into your original GDB so you can load a route and track into the GPS. If you set the route colour to white it will highlight the track. Then you can ride round as if you were following the track whilst benefiting from the extra junction 'pop-ups' provided by the route secure in the knowledge that if the GPS autorouting does try and take you off-track it will be immediately obvious. Sorted.

[MSeries]

The auot routing on my GPS differs to that on my PC version of Mapsource. Not all the options are the same. I tend to use autorouting when I don't really care about which road I take, for preplanned rides I just off road with plenty of points

[Sergeant Pluck]

if you like, you can then copy and paste the track into your original GDB so you can load a route and track into the GPS. If you set the route colour to white it will highlight the track. Then you can ride round as if you were following the track whilst benefiting from the extra junction 'pop-ups' provided by the route

Now that's very clever   I've been using routes and tracks in parallel to produce a similar effect, but that is a much neater solution. How is it done - the insertion of the track into the .gdb?

[MSeries]

You can use option 14 to generate a route from the generated route, it inserts loads of points so that off road routing works effectively

if you like, you can then copy and paste the track into your original GDB so you can load a route and track into the GPS. If you set the route colour to white it will highlight the track. Then you can ride round as if you were following the track whilst benefiting from the extra junction 'pop-ups' provided by the route

Now that's very clever   I've been using routes and tracks in parallel to produce a similar effect, but that is a much neater solution. How is it done - the insertion of the track into the .gdb?

in mapsource with your track loaded. open the track, highlight every point a any click copy.

in another instance of mapsource with your route loaded. click to the track tan. right click (windows), edit menu->new track. Paste

[Sergeant Pluck]

Ah, ok. I thought it was done using a text editor etc to combine the two into one file that had all the data in it.

So by copying and pasting the track into the instance of Mapsource with the route displayed, surely this just gives you two separate things (a route and a track) that need transferred to the device, as I do at the moment?

Why have two instances of Mapsource when you can make a route and a track in the one instance?

[MSeries]

Ah, ok. I thought it was done using a text editor etc to combine the two into one file that had all the data in it.

So by copying and pasting the track into the instance of Mapsource with the route displayed, surely this just gives you two separate things (a route and a track) that need transferred to the device, as I do at the moment?

Why have two instances of Mapsource when you can make a route and a track in the one instance?

one to open the track with and one to have the route open in ready for the paste. there may be another way but this works.

the route and the track are two separate things, in the same .gdb file or gpx if you save as

[Sergeant Pluck]

I see - so I'd no longer need to save a track and route as separate items (which I think is what I've done before). That's good.

[MSeries]

that's right. Get them both in mapsource along with any custom way points and save them all together. BTW I have never used tracks on the road so all this is going to be trialed by me next Tuesday. Personally I can manage with off road routes or auto routes from a handful of points.

Wingdb3 is good, thanls for pointing that out tonight. I just took a 140km route with about 15 points for auto routing, generated a full route of 200 points, generated a track eith 100 poiints and saved the last two in the same file.

[Martin]

gpx's saved from a route created on Mapsource don't work for AUK purposes (at least not the ones I've tried)

[MSeries]

gpx's saved from a route created on Mapsource don't work for AUK purposes (at least not the ones I've tried)

why is that a problem ?

bikehike ones work

how do you create a track in Mapsource anyway ?

[Sergeant Pluck]

Get them both in mapsource along with any custom way points and save them all together.

Just to clarify, when I transfer this combined single .gdb file to my device, both a track and a route will display (assuming correct colour choices) on the map? Does it appear on the device just as a route, or does a track also appear on the relevant page for selection?

[MSeries]

don't know pluck, I didn't do that bit. They will both transfer, I haven't used tracks for navigation so don't know what it will do, others have done though. I'd epxect to see the track listed in the tracks and routes in routes, as iff they were uploaded in two goes.

[Martin]

how do you create a track in Mapsource anyway ?

apart from the "Track Draw" tool (tediarse in the extreme and very unreliable) no idea!

[Sergeant Pluck]

how do you create a track in Mapsource anyway ?

When I'm doing my separate track and routes, I use MemoryMap to make the track, this can be saved as a gpx then opened in Mapsource where it appears as a track. (I find the track draw in Mapsource itself ok though). 

[MSeries]

gpx's saved from a route created on Mapsource don't work for AUK purposes (at least not the ones I've tried)

they are routes, not tracks. YOu validate tracks don't you ? not routes.  A route converted to a track using wingdb3 and viewed and saved as gpx in MapSource works in vgpx. No time data though.

[MSeries]

OK , i didn't know about 'draw track' looks difficult to use to follow roads. The software follows roads for you for routes.

[Sergeant Pluck]

I only get the track to follow roads exactly at tricky junctions etc, the rest of the time I just approximate. This is fine because all you want the track to do is to act as a fixed guide that is not subject to the vagaries of Garmin in-device routing.