Ceramic Rims

[GruB]

Roger has all sorts of odd sized wheels in his fleet though.
Very odd but very sparkly clean 

[Jethro]

I have Mavic Open Pro Ceramic rims on one of my bikes and they scared the sh1t out of me on a very wet ride last year simply because I couldnt stop!

Even with the right brake blocks fitted, I no longer use them in the wet!

[Jacomus]

[useless contribution]

Choose disks. Choose a brake that always works. Choose an immense rim life. Choose a colour matched carrier. Choose a fucking big rotor. Choose hydraulics, vents, saw edge disks, and DOT5.1 fluid. Choose good performance, low maintenance and wet-weather braking. Choose ISO calliper mounts. Choose a 210mm rotor. Choose your brand. Choose braided hoses and matching sleeves. Choose a Hope Moto M6 on hire purchase in a range of fucking sizes. Choose disks and wondering who the fuck invented rim brake on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that saddle watching mind-numbing spirit-soaring spinning disk shadows on the road, stuffing fucking bonk rations into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of a 600, pissing your last in a miserable portaloo, nothing more than an example of a broken human being, fucked-up but still able to stop your bike. Choose your future. Choose disks.

[/useless contribution]

[Polar Bear]

You in sales per chance?   

[pdm]

I have Mavic Open Pro Ceramic rims on one of my bikes and they scared the sh1t out of me on a very wet ride last year simply because I couldnt stop!

Even with the right brake blocks fitted, I no longer use them in the wet!

The submerged stopping power of ceramic rims is certainly reduced..... I have some Grizzly rims on my winter commuter.
But I also have parallel motion V brakes with Swisstop blocks - These are both top of the line and seem to work well at offsetting the disadvantages.....
I have also seemed to have developed the habit of drying off my brakes at the top of any hills where I would want top performance...

[tiermat]

I have Mavic Open Pro Ceramic rims on one of my bikes and they scared the sh1t out of me on a very wet ride last year simply because I couldnt stop!

Even with the right brake blocks fitted, I no longer use them in the wet!

Similar to what I found, that and the ceramic wore out in 6 months, my Sun Ringle TCC rims however are still going strong, after 10 years (as far as I know, I sold the bike before we moved from Brighouse)

[GruB]

As it is the back rim that appears to be worn the quickest, I was only going to put a ceramic on the rear wheel.
That still gives me front braking to enable the back to dry out.

[border-rider]

I've never had a problem with braking in the wet myself.

I dunno if it's a matter of which brake blocks you use, but even on PBP (which was far from dry) I had first-class braking.

[Dunc]

..... you can use polishing blocks to re-roughen the surface of the ceramic and improve the braking again. You can buy one with Mavic branded cardboard wrapped around it for over twenty quid but you can buy them from engineering suppliers for a few pounds.

What do you ask/search for at suppliers - is it just "polishing blocks"?

I've tried buffing with the Mavic rim rubber and some 120grit wet&dry to no effect. Yesterday I used a diamond stone and that made a huge difference. It clearly took off the surface of the ceramic, producing a blue/grey dust and left a matt grey finish on the ceramic surface. Wet weather breaking is back to as it was when new. Just need to see how long this lasts; if I get another 10 years out of it I'll be extremely happy.

something similar to this:
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-Diamond-Mini-Stone-Sets-21718.htm

[border-rider]

Interesting

How much of the ceramic surface do you think it might have removed ?  Is it just a matter of "conditioning" the surface or are you actually rubbing it down ?

[Dunc]

Interesting

How much of the ceramic surface do you think it might have removed ?  Is it just a matter of "conditioning" the surface or are you actually rubbing it down ?

My intent was simply to "condition" it, as you say. I think I've just roughened the surface, though it's difficult to tell with a finger whether it really is rougher. Presumably as it's no longer glossy it must be rough?

I have no idea what depth of coating was removed. I didn't need to apply much pressure to get the diamond to bite, and just rubbed sufficiently to see a change in the gloss and colour of the surface. 5 mins work max. (plus half an hour to clean up the dusty mess!) Much of the surface already had small pits where the coating has fallen off/been damaged and I haven't removed sufficient to hide the pitting.

Working on the principle that I was going to bin the rim if this didn't work I'm quite pleased with the result. Will have to wait a few weeks to see how long it lasts. I have a relatively new ceramic rim on the back so I have something to compare with.

[border-rider]

That's really helpful.  Thanks

I guess that sooner or later I'll hit this problem, and when I do I will now know how to fix it with the confidence that I'm not trashing the rims

[border-rider]

I've never had a problem with braking in the wet myself.

I dunno if it's a matter of which brake blocks you use, but even on PBP (which was far from dry) I had first-class braking.

Well, a slight proviso

The back wheel (new rim) gave great braking in the wet parts of the Bryan Chapman.  But for the first time I did suffer poorer front wheel braking in the wet; fine in the dry but not good in the very-wet.  That's after 4 years of use.

Time to deploy the abrasive.

[Hot Flatus]

I had a bit of bad wet-weather braking on the Chapman but I polished mine up mid ride using Ian H's frown

[greenmeansgo]

[useless contribution]

Choose disks. Choose a brake that always works. Choose an immense rim life. Choose a colour matched carrier. Choose a fucking big rotor. Choose hydraulics, vents, saw edge disks, and DOT5.1 fluid. Choose good performance, low maintenance and wet-weather braking. Choose ISO calliper mounts. Choose a 210mm rotor. Choose your brand. Choose braided hoses and matching sleeves. Choose a Hope Moto M6 on hire purchase in a range of fucking sizes. Choose disks and wondering who the fuck invented rim brake on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that saddle watching mind-numbing spirit-soaring spinning disk shadows on the road, stuffing fucking bonk rations into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of a 600, pissing your last in a miserable portaloo, nothing more than an example of a broken human being, fucked-up but still able to stop your bike. Choose your future. Choose disks.

[/useless contribution]

Brilliant! I enjoyed that. (And trainspotting)

[LittleWheelsandBig]

HK’s trike has a ceramic DT rim on her trike with Koolstop green ceramic pads (Shimano road-compatible). There is a noticeable green tinge to the brake tracks and they feel smooth to the touch.

Are there any ceramic-specific pads that work noticeably better, particularly in the wet? I think that Swissstop have stopped making a ceramic-specific pad. Would using a Mavic or Swissstop rim cleaner be a good idea?

[Brucey]

once the brake track has worn smooth, 'normal' kool stops work pretty well on many ceramic rims. Worth a go?

cheers

[Valiant]

A mate complained about his wet weather braking on ceramic, I toed the pads in by a mm or so and i made all the difference. I tend to align the pads flat, release and then put a credit card on the rear half and engage brakes. Loosen and tighten the pads, job done.

[rogerzilla]

My experience was that the brake tracks eventually became smooth and the main benefit of this was very low pad wear*.  There was no difference in wet braking, which remained mediocre.  Gattopardo had that wheelset from me; it will have 9 years on it now.

Benefits: very low rim wear - the rim could outlast you

Drawbacks: wet braking not as good as plain aluminium.  Very rapid pad wear on a new rim but that soon eases. 

*on a nomal alloy commuting front wheel, a paor of Kool-Stop salmons lasts me just over a year.  The ceramic pads lasted almost indefinitely once the rim was smooth.

[hatler]

Koolstop and Shimano still produce ceramic pads.

Should I stock up ?  I've got two ceramic rims on the bike currently, two made up wheels ready to go and four spare rims.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Koolstop produce pads for almost everything, including Shimano AX brakes that have not been made for 35 years. I doubt they will stop making ceramic pads any time soon.
http://www.koolstop.com/english/rim_pads.html

I have not heard good things about Shimano ceramic pads, so stocking up with them does not seem worth the trouble.

Discobrakes seem to have ceased production of ceramic rim brake pads.

Brucey, we only have Koolstop salmon pads here. Did you mean them or black Koolstop pads?

[rogerzilla]

I still have one pair of Swissstop sky blue pads in the Crypt of Crap, but they are for V-brakes.

[Brucey]

Brucey, we only have Koolstop salmon pads here. Did you mean them or black Koolstop pads?

Salmons are what I'd expect to work best on a rim that is polished smooth but not all ceramic rims are created equal, so it is always something of an experiment.

cheers

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I still have one pair of Swissstop sky blue pads in the Crypt of Crap, but they are for V-brakes.

HK's Trykit has two front brakes, both mini-V brakes with Koolstop Shimano road-compatible pad holders. I might be able to refit V-brake pads to the brake mounted behind the fork, provided the holders were offset rearwards. Long MTB brake pads hit the road-clearance fork blades when the noodle is released and don't separate far enough to clear an inflated 32mm tyre.

[Wowbagger]

I've got the Rigida Andra Carbide rims on my solo machine and the Thorn tandem. I reckon to get at least 5000 miles out of a set of blue Swissstop pads. As RZ states above, the rims are now almost glassy-smooth (the tandem has done over 14000 miles, my solo machine over 39000). Wet weather braking is indeed utter crap (I had a rather buttock-clenching moment somewhere in the Hafren Forest last year), but other than that they work very well indeed.

Unless I break a rim (we did that on the tandem once) I don't think I will ever need to replace them.