Yet Another Cycling Forum

Off Topic => The Pub => Arts and Entertainment => Topic started by: geraldc on 25 July, 2010, 09:16:53 pm

Title: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 25 July, 2010, 09:16:53 pm
Liking it so far...
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: pixieannie on 25 July, 2010, 09:19:08 pm
So am I, particularly liking the 'crop' thingy.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on 25 July, 2010, 09:55:55 pm
This is Doctor Who without space aliens.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 25 July, 2010, 10:02:28 pm
More allusions to being gay than Dr Who, so it's Torchwood meets Morse.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: GruB on 25 July, 2010, 10:36:13 pm
It was very well done we thought.  Liked it very much.
I agree on the Dr Who view, but Sherlock is better IMO.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: rower40 on 25 July, 2010, 10:47:28 pm
I enjoyed it, but...
Some of the dialogue was very very fast, and while I would normally have the subtitles on, my sister (who was watching it here too) has an aversion to text-on-the-screen.
I'll be reading the subtitles next week.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Tail End Charlie on 25 July, 2010, 11:10:10 pm
I really enjoyed it. It made me laugh without trying to be a comedy and I liked the way several parts from the originals were included and brought up to date (I'm thinking of Holmes's examination of Watson's phone).
Have set the tape for next week.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 25 July, 2010, 11:23:10 pm
Sharp, clever, well paced, great dialogue, excellent cast. I was really sceptical about it beforehand but I loved every second of it.  :thumbsup:

True to the spirit of the original too.

d.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Captain Zep on 25 July, 2010, 11:49:39 pm
I've been a big Holmes fan since my early teens.  Therefor I have not seen the Guy Ritchie film.  I loathe Martin Freeman.

But I loved this.   :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Can't wait 'til next week.

Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 26 July, 2010, 12:00:53 am
The Mycroft twist was very good. The image in my mind of Mycroft being Charles Gray from the Jeremy Brett series may finally have been supplanted.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 26 July, 2010, 12:24:42 am
The Mycroft twist was very good.

Twist? Perhaps if you're not familiar with the original Conan Doyle stories...  :smug: ;)

(click to show/hide)

I've read a lot in the press about the various "in jokes" but all the write-ups overlooked my favourite, which was the way they flipped the meaning of "Rache" from A Study In Scarlet. As if a dying woman would scrawl some obscure German word!  ;D

d.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Bledlow on 26 July, 2010, 04:33:50 pm
No, no, no!

To take this seriously, we have to accept that the brilliant Sherlock Holmes overlooks the most obvious things, & that runs counter to the basic premise.

I correctly guessed the murderer's trade while Sherlock was standing over the dead woman pontificating, & that's not because I'm brilliant, but because it was bleedin' obvious that someone in that trade was the most likely suspect. At first, I expected the police to come up with that idea (they would, you know! In real life, they bloody well would!) & Sherlock to come out with some stroke of genius, something he'd spotted but they'd missed, which ruled it out. But then I realised that the writers were too thick for that, & I spent much of the rest of the programme getting increasingly irritated, wondering why everyone (& especially Sherlock, who kept hovering on the brink) was overlooking what I had become gloomily resigned to being revealed - until it was. I still hoped for some kind of twist to prove me wrong, but was disappointed.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Si on 26 July, 2010, 05:11:37 pm
I liked it apart from the sound.  Could be because we get our TV via a cable, but in parts it was very difficult to make out what the actors were saying.  Obviously, turning it up helped, but then it'd switch to the next scene and our ear drums would be imploding.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 26 July, 2010, 05:28:49 pm
I correctly guessed the murderer's trade while Sherlock was standing over the dead woman pontificating, & that's not because I'm brilliant, but because it was bleedin' obvious that someone in that trade was the most likely suspect.

Hmm, I'm not sure this is a fair criticism - iirc Holmes doesn't suss whodunnit that quickly in the original A Study In Scarlet either.

d.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Captain Zep on 26 July, 2010, 08:19:04 pm
I liked it apart from the sound.  Could be because we get our TV via a cable, but in parts it was very difficult to make out what the actors were saying.  Obviously, turning it up helped, but then it'd switch to the next scene and our ear drums would be imploding.

I thought so too.  I had had my finger on the volume control for most of the programme.   ::-)  Why do they do this?  If you want to hear the dialogue, your neighbours get the music basting through the walls too.  >:(
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Pancho on 26 July, 2010, 08:50:14 pm
Dr Watson had returned from the (current) Afghan war - the original Dr Watson had also just returned from the (then current) Afghan war. Depressing, eh?
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: oncemore on 26 July, 2010, 09:13:03 pm
We both quite liked it. Compared with most televisual offerings rather witty.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Cunobelin on 26 July, 2010, 09:43:58 pm
This is Doctor Who without space aliens.

My impression - the whole "What am I missing" theme was straight out of Dr Who
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Noodley on 26 July, 2010, 09:51:33 pm
It was pleasant enough viewing but I rather think it will head in the same direction as many other series in that only 'special' people will be able to follow the stories and 'get it' after week 3 or 4....and they will snigger at people without piss-stained trousers and a cupboard full of pot noodle and a 'girlfriend' with a permanently open orifice.  Oh how clever.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Bledlow on 26 July, 2010, 10:10:50 pm
I correctly guessed the murderer's trade while Sherlock was standing over the dead woman pontificating, & that's not because I'm brilliant, but because it was bleedin' obvious that someone in that trade was the most likely suspect.

Hmm, I'm not sure this is a fair criticism - iirc Holmes doesn't suss whodunnit that quickly in the original A Study In Scarlet either.

d.
No, but I think it isn't blatantly obvious in that (unlike this one), & I don't think the idea of crime by that particular group was so high profile back then. This time, the slowest cop should be wondering why nobody has started checking the obvious, let alone Holmes.

BTW, I got it without making any connection with the original, which I hadn't read for 40 years & had completely forgotten, & I've just found that a friend who'd never read A Study in Scarlet had also worked it out quickly.

Suspension of disbelief shouldn't be pushed too far. There are appropriate levels for the type of entertainment. Farce can stand a hell of a lot, drama much less.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: David Martin on 26 July, 2010, 10:48:22 pm
Just watched it. The murderers trade was laid on rather thick.

And I'm surprised nobody has said 'The Princess Bride (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUee1WvtQZU)' yet?

But jolly good entertainment none the less. Can't wait for the next one.

..d
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Deano on 26 July, 2010, 10:58:19 pm
Well, I enjoyed it.  The guy who played Holmes was pretty good - the physical resemblance to the Sydney Paget illustrations of Holmes probably helped.  It was fun to pick out the references to the original stories such as the rache/rachel thing mentioned above, and the nicotine patches standing in for Holmes's opium habit.  I was also pleased to see that Watson wasn't portrayed as a bumbling idiot, which he sometimes is.  There was a good range of supporting characters - Mark Gatiss being especially sinister as Mycroft. 

I remembered most of the plot from having read the original novel, so it wasn't terribly hard to work things out.  They replaced the slightly iffy Mormon backplot with a less-than-believable tale of serial killers for hire, which was a bit weak, but it bodes well for the future.  I'm looking forward to the next one immensely.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: urban_biker on 27 July, 2010, 08:30:49 am
Best show on TV at the moment. And it cleverly manages to link the Doctor Who audience and the murder mystery audience. I bet even my parents would like it. I suspect it will become a BBC classic and sell well in the US as well. Lets hope they can keep up the quality of the writing.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 27 July, 2010, 08:36:37 am
Hmm, yes - Matt Smith would have made an excellent Sherlock. And Benedict Cumberbatch a fine Doctor Who.

d.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Tigerrr on 28 July, 2010, 11:20:56 am
It was pleasant enough viewing but I rather think it will head in the same direction as many other series in that only 'special' people will be able to follow the stories and 'get it' after week 3 or 4....and they will snigger at people without piss-stained trousers and a cupboard full of pot noodle and a 'girlfriend' with a permanently open orifice.  Oh how clever.
Crikey noodles - sounds like you need to escape from the weight of those chips, or change your newspaper, or eat more sugar to sweeten up?
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: clarion on 28 July, 2010, 11:34:20 am
Hmm, yes - Matt Smith would have made an excellent Sherlock. And Benedict Cumberbatch a fine Doctor Who.

d.

I thought that Benedict Cumberbatch was a character played by Matt Smith.  I may yet be proved correct.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Mr Larrington on 28 July, 2010, 11:56:30 am
And I'm surprised nobody has said 'The Princess Bride (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUee1WvtQZU)' yet?

Quite.  Dr. Watson had already fallen victim to one of the classic blunders - the most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia".
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 28 July, 2010, 12:48:20 pm
The poisoned pill featured in the original study in scarlet, so it wasn't really referencing the Princess Bride.

I think Noodley should write to points of view!
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: TimO on 31 July, 2010, 08:01:53 am
I just watched it, whilst eating breakfast, and it seems like good escapist fun.

I guessed that Mycroft was he right at the start, and even knew that the scriptwriters would do the "It upsets Mother so" type thing, because it's just too clichéd a line not to use!  They couldn't bring Moriarty in quite so early (as an actual physical character), so it had to be something designed to fool the audience (and I've never read the books, so don't know if this was done similarly in the original story).

The sarcastic comments directed at Anderson and the sergeant as Holmes arrived at the crime scene, did almost make me spit out my cereal!  That was not something that I think could have been done in the original story, but seemed very in keeping with the character.

I'll certainly watch the next episode.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 31 July, 2010, 10:58:42 am
Moriarty doesn't appear until quite late in the books - in fact, his first appearance is also his last, when he and Holmes apparently both plunge to their deaths at Reichenbach Falls in The Final Problem. Conan Doyle wrote this story as a way of killing off the character who had become a burden to him - he wanted to branch out and write other stuff - but later brought him back by popular demand (and because he needed the money). Moriarty was never mentioned before The Final Problem and all subsequent mentions are in flashback - the only other story he actually appears in is The Valley Of Fear, which is set before The Final Problem but was written later.

(I've gleaned most of the above from reading Julian Barnes's Arthur & George rather than the Conan Doyle SH books.)

d.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: andyoxon on 01 August, 2010, 07:27:42 pm
Hmm, yes - Matt Smith would have made an excellent Sherlock. And Benedict Cumberbatch a fine Doctor Who.

SH & Dr Who are quite similar characters in some ways.  BTW googlefight has Dr Who as hands down winner. 
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: GruB on 01 August, 2010, 08:17:57 pm
Andy,

What is googlefight?
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: her_welshness on 01 August, 2010, 10:03:47 pm
Oooh that was rather good. Probably developing a crush on Sherlock.  :D

The Gatiss and Moffat combination is working well  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: andyoxon on 01 August, 2010, 10:37:10 pm
Andy,

What is googlefight?

 http://www.googlefight.com/   ;)
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 01 August, 2010, 11:17:23 pm
Well, I thought that was even better than last week's episode. Thoroughly enjoyable.  :thumbsup:

d.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Mr Larrington on 02 August, 2010, 10:42:42 am
I'd have enjoyed that more had my PVR not omitted to record the first eighteen minutes ???
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 02 August, 2010, 10:53:56 am
I liked it apart from the sound.  Could be because we get our TV via a cable, but in parts it was very difficult to make out what the actors were saying.  Obviously, turning it up helped, but then it'd switch to the next scene and our ear drums would be imploding.

I thought so too.  I had had my finger on the volume control for most of the programme.   ::-)  Why do they do this?  If you want to hear the dialogue, your neighbours get the music basting through the walls too.  >:(

How bizarre. I've been moaning about this for years with the american dramas (generally the ones that reckon themselves a bit more high-brow).

But SH didn't seem to suffer at all (like most Brit stuff). It's not just the fast dialogue is it? I too found it a bit too rushed at times, but it didn't spoil it for me. I quite enjoy having the action* flow over me too fast to absorb properly sometimes (any West Wing fans here?)

On a related note, I think there are crime fans, and drama fans who also like crime:
the latter group are along for the ride, and don't worry toooo much about the details of the plot and the detection. We like the clever ideas more than worrying about how well they stand up!

*Which can be verbal as well as physical, as this show brilliantly demonstrates.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on 02 August, 2010, 10:41:59 pm
I'd have enjoyed that more had my PVR not omitted to record the first eighteen minutes ???
Mine didn't record any of it as BBC1 appeared to have dropped out of its sphere of consciousness so I've just watched it on iPlayer.

Oooh that was rather good. Probably developing a crush on Sherlock.  :D

I'm not. I'm going for Watson.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Cunobelin on 03 August, 2010, 08:07:27 pm
Table for four?

Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: David Martin on 03 August, 2010, 08:24:56 pm
Table for four?



Fancy a chinese?
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Charlotte on 04 August, 2010, 09:10:35 am
Well I bloody loved it.

Watched the first one last night on iPlayer and I was just in seventh heaven.  It is, without doubt, one of the freshest, most engaging dramas I've seen on the Beeb for absolutely ages.

I can't admit to having been a big Conan Doyle fan in the past.  I've only ever read one of the novels, years and years ago and I always thought that previous TV adaptations were okay, but not brilliant.  The recent film was well made, but quite predictably came with the expected Hollywood gloss.

This, on the other hand, is just the ticket.  Homes is young and arrogant, but still someone you want to like.  Watson is flawed, but not by any means stupid and clearly someone that Holmes needs.  There's a delicious hint of sexual ambiguity, with a very clear message that it doesn't matter whether you're gay, straight or not-sure.

The writers did a fabulous job of getting the audience inside the head of a genius.  From the text-on-screen to the bit where he corrects the police and describes himself as a "high-functioning sociopath", I thought it was just marvelously well-conceived.

Did anyone else think that Mark Gatiss' character used just a little of his Matrix-spoof cameo from Spaced?  Wasn't he awesomely good?

I came away from the first episode desperately wanting more.  More London, more Holmes, more of the clever.

Anyone who doesn't like it is clearly a miserable git  :D
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Thor on 04 August, 2010, 09:15:04 am
Probably developing a crush on Sherlock.  :D

He has a face like an uncooked doughnut, according to the Evening Standard critic. 

Hope his helps.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 04 August, 2010, 10:19:33 am
The writers did a fabulous job of getting the audience inside the head of a genius.  From the text-on-screen  ...
[assuming you mean text messages:]
The fact that no-one's mentioned that stuff shows just how well it worked. (I really hate shots of SMSes on actual phone screens - this is a major improvement. I can't believe it has taken all these years for a TV/movie director to come up with it.)

There were also the little captions displayed over key clues as he spotted them. (Which have the added benefit of signposting them to the 'detecting challenged' of us!)
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: her_welshness on 04 August, 2010, 10:32:48 am
Probably developing a crush on Sherlock.  :D

He has a face like an uncooked doughnut, according to the Evening Standard critic. 

Hope his helps.

Mmmmm..doughnuts.

Am gutted that this series is a 3 parter, but then you do get an hour and half per episode. Perhaps Aunty was trying to find out if the populace appreciated it, but if its got Moffat and Gatiss on board then it was going to be convincing.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 04 August, 2010, 10:48:46 am
It looks (and I believe is) a verrry expensive production. 4.5 hours seems like a pretty fair investment on a new series. Most new stuff only gets 6 hours (minus titles/adverts).
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: TimO on 04 August, 2010, 11:14:11 am
I do think it's a very well done attempt at making a more modern Sherlock.  As others have said, the character is very believable, but sometimes utterly shocking in his responses and behaviour.

I thought that the first episode was better than the second one, but I was more distracted when watching the second, so maybe I wasn't really giving it my best attention.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: redshift on 04 August, 2010, 01:43:27 pm
He's only shocking if you don't think that way yourself.  If you do, you're wondering whether you ever do the right thing trying to be more 'normal' to other people.  Most of us aren't geniuses, so wouldn't get away with it.
I haven't read the books for a while, but he seems to have caught the essence of Holmes quite well.  I do hope he's read what Jeremy Brett had to say about the character stealing actors' souls if they're not careful.

The captioned 'thinking process' seems to me to be a direct descendant of the subtitles in Night Watch (the Timur Bekmambetov film, not the Terry Pratchett book), or the mathematical glints of inspiration in A Beautiful Mind.

From a 'working in TV' point of view, I think it's well made, has high production values, and probably cost a fair bit.  The kind of programme I'd prefer to work on, if only more were made these days.   ::-)
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: TimO on 04 August, 2010, 01:53:18 pm
He's only shocking if you don't think that way yourself.  If you do, you're wondering whether you ever do the right thing trying to be more 'normal' to other people. ...

Presumably if you do think this way, then you spend most of your life wondering why other people are doing what they do anyway. ;D

He reminds me a bit of Sheldon in The Big Bang Theory.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: redshift on 04 August, 2010, 02:03:45 pm
He's only shocking if you don't think that way yourself.  If you do, you're wondering whether you ever do the right thing trying to be more 'normal' to other people. ...

Presumably if you do think this way, then you spend most of your life wondering why other people are doing what they do anyway. ;D

This sentence adequately describes my whole life, right from the point where the Little Sisters of Perpetual Bewilderment washed their hands of me...  ;D
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 07 August, 2010, 02:19:38 pm
I didn't like the second one as much as the Chinese was all a bit wrong  ;D
Watson's killing 1 person per episode, a surprisingly high body count.

Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: her_welshness on 08 August, 2010, 08:55:19 pm
5 minutes to go, can't wait  :thumbsup: We get to see Moriarty too.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: itsbruce on 08 August, 2010, 10:17:54 pm
Did you notice that one of tonight's murderers rode a fixie?  Clearly, it is the mark of Cain.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: David Martin on 08 August, 2010, 10:26:23 pm
Would be nice if light doesn't go round corners.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: nicknack on 08 August, 2010, 10:36:50 pm
I see they've just gone over the falls.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Regulator on 08 August, 2010, 10:39:59 pm
Moriarty...

I would....
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 08 August, 2010, 10:40:09 pm
That was good tv that was. Moriarty did remind me of Father Noel Furlong, Graham Norton's character from Father Ted  ;D
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on 08 August, 2010, 10:56:37 pm
I can't be arsed with 90 minutes of it. An hour would be fine. I struggle to maintain my concentration for the whole show.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Deano on 08 August, 2010, 11:07:07 pm
I still enjoyed it, but I know the original novels and stories well, so I'm too aware of how similar and different they are to be able to make a fair judgment.

Having said that, Moriarty was the least frightening villain since Frank n furter.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: David Martin on 08 August, 2010, 11:15:35 pm
I still enjoyed it, but I know the original novels and stories well, so I'm too aware of how similar and different they are to be able to make a fair judgment.

Having said that, Moriarty was the least frightening villain since Frank n furter.

Isn't that the point? Physically he has no presence. The Golem was pretty good.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Deano on 08 August, 2010, 11:19:22 pm
My first sentence refers.  In the novels and stories where he briefly appeared, Moriarty did possess physical charisma, and was more than just the power behind the scenes.  IIRC, Conan-Doyle took pains to make it so.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: her_welshness on 08 August, 2010, 11:28:26 pm
That was good tv that was. Moriarty did remind me of Father Noel Furlong, Graham Norton's character from Father Ted  ;D

I know, I was thinking of Graham Norton too  :thumbsup:

I thought it was a great episode tonight. Bloody dark too. That old woman's face will haunt me for some time.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: itsbruce on 09 August, 2010, 12:09:19 am
My first sentence refers.  In the novels and stories where he briefly appeared, Moriarty did possess physical charisma, and was more than just the power behind the scenes.  IIRC, Conan-Doyle took pains to make it so.

We can allow them some license, though; these stories have been dramatised so many times, there's little point in just replaying them literally.  Besides, I've also read all the Holmes stories and while some of it is very fine genre writing indeed, some of it is quite ropey, so there's room for improvement in a TV version.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Deano on 09 August, 2010, 12:18:25 am
Fair enough, but Moriarty even failed to live up to the build-up within the show itself, IMO. 

Anyway, I don't want to get hung up on this minor quibble, as I liked it, on the whole. 
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: TheLurker on 10 August, 2010, 01:51:18 pm
Thoroughly enjoyed it, good escapist fun and one had absolutely next to no trouble suspending disbelief for the requisite 90 minutes...

but, but, but, but, but... the Browning.  How the hell did Watson manage to hold on to that?  He's not still a serving member of HM Forces is he?  Didn't the post Dunblane regs make it impossible or very near impossible to keep a pistol?  Where's the lockable gun cabinet?   

Ah well never mind.  It wasn't pretending to be a documentary.  High quality nonsense.  More please.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 11 August, 2010, 09:18:38 am
Watson's gun is no doubt illegally held as a war trophy. It will also be on  the database for unsolved crimes. He killed someone with it in the first episode (which Holmes helped cover up). Then he killed someone with a crossbow in the second episode, but I guess that one was in self defence.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 11 August, 2010, 09:28:05 am
A pretty good finale to a really superb new series. No significant criticisms from this livng room. 1st show was by far the best.

(How come noone's mentioned the opening murderer pedantry scene - that was hilarious!)

Moriarty was interesting - he had a definite charisma, without being physically intimidating. Which makes a nice change from 99.9% of screen villains.

The Dr Who team could learn a lot from the more subtle use of music in this series.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Oaky on 11 August, 2010, 09:31:49 am
What was the incidental music they used (I'm thinking of the piece with a kind of slavic dances feel to it)?
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Mr Larrington on 11 August, 2010, 10:59:49 am
BBC News - Updated Sherlock 'will be back' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-10925753).

Yay! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Tim Hall on 11 August, 2010, 01:27:07 pm
Watson's blog, which Holmes kept referring to in episode 3. It's out there for real.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 11 August, 2010, 04:11:47 pm
I found that via a link from Sherlock's Science of Deduction website, as seen in the last episode.  ;)

d.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Tim Hall on 11 August, 2010, 04:24:46 pm
'zackly

Sit watching Episode 3 grabbed by get_iplayer, with laptop on, er, lap.

See Sherlock/Watson waving laptop about on screen.

Read page.

FWSE.

Bob's yer wossname.
 
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Si on 12 August, 2010, 10:48:53 am
Sorry to say that i wasn't all that impressed by the series. The first had promise but the other two didn't really come through for me.

But then again, I often find Holmes disappointing.  I always watch them expecting a good juicy whodunnit.  But the thing about Holmes is that it often isn't really proper whodunnit stuff, like, say, a Christie is.  To me proper whodunnits are logic problems with lots of red herrings thrown in, but with Holmes much of the deduction depends on the encyclopedic catalogue of knowledge in his head - he has access to a load of info that the average viewer doesn't, thus we don't have the same opportunity to solve the mystery as, say, Poirot (sp?) does.

Anyway, Bazza Rathbone is still Homes for me.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 12 August, 2010, 01:00:38 pm
To me proper whodunnits are logic problems with lots of red herrings thrown in, but with Holmes much of the deduction depends on the encyclopedic catalogue of knowledge in his head - he has access to a load of info that the average viewer doesn't, thus we don't have the same opportunity to solve the mystery as, say, Poirot (sp?) does.
Totally agree. Fortunately, I'm not a real murder mystery fan, so this doesn't bother me! I just like being dazzled by his mental gymnastics, and the clever tricks in the plot (leave a body on top of a train - neat).

This 'style' makes for a much pacier drama - the characters don't waste much time with exposition, and we avoid the 15-min drawing room finale!

The catalogue of knowledge thing is just a brilliant running gag to me. I do hope he identifies a bicycle tyre tread at some point ...
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: border-rider on 12 August, 2010, 01:04:06 pm
Lowlife type: "I were going...."

Sherlock: "It's was.  I was going..."

 It somehow made me feel right at home.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: itsbruce on 12 August, 2010, 02:38:47 pm
But then again, I often find Holmes disappointing.  I always watch them expecting a good juicy whodunnit.  But the thing about Holmes is that it often isn't really proper whodunnit stuff, like, say, a Christie is.  To me proper whodunnits are logic problems with lots of red herrings thrown in, but with Holmes much of the deduction depends on the encyclopedic catalogue of knowledge in his head - he has access to a load of info that the average viewer doesn't, thus we don't have the same opportunity to solve the mystery as, say, Poirot (sp?) does.

You what?  Christie cheats all the time.  She pretends to be doing a solvable whodunnit but regularly hides information (not entirely sure if this is intentional or carelessness).  In "Hercule Poirot's Christmas", for example, there are several important visual clues which are never given to you (the colour of one girl's eyes, the close physical resemblance of two key characters).

I think a lot of people's perceptions of Christie are filtered partly through the myth that's been built up around her and partly through the TV adaptations, which provide much that is missing in her writing like period detail and character delineation (she's not the only one who benefits from that; Colin Dexter's books are plotless, meandering bilge but he's judged by the TV version of Morse) .  For me, she's on the Dan Brown level.  Many far better crime writers around, dead and alive.  Russell Davies's worship of her in Dr. Who was just more evidence for why he had to go.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 12 August, 2010, 02:41:34 pm
Lowlife type: "I were going...."

Sherlock: "It's was.  I was going..."

 It somehow made me feel right at home.
So that's just 2 of us that noticed it ...

That scene was funny, and clearly put in entirely for comic relief.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Regulator on 12 August, 2010, 03:34:51 pm
Lowlife type: "I were going...."

Sherlock: "It's was.  I was going..."

 It somehow made me feel right at home.
So that's just 2 of us that noticed it ...

That scene was funny, and clearly put in entirely for comic relief.

I too noticed it and found it amusing...
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: border-rider on 12 August, 2010, 03:37:29 pm
I too noticed it and found it amusing...

Mrs MV was in stitches: it's usually me shouting stuff like that at the telly :)
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Regulator on 12 August, 2010, 03:39:17 pm
I too noticed it and found it amusing...

Mrs MV was in stitches: it's usually me shouting stuff like that at the telly :)

Mr R just tutted and rolled his eyes when I tried to explain what I found so funny...
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: David Martin on 12 August, 2010, 04:46:03 pm
Lowlife type: "I were going...."

Sherlock: "It's was.  I was going..."

 It somehow made me feel right at home.
So that's just 2 of us that noticed it ...

That scene was funny, and clearly put in entirely for comic relief.

I too noticed it and found it amusing...

It was even funnier when the crim self corrected later..

I'm not quite sure why it was funny, but it was. And we were doing the ROFL bit too.

..d
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: redshift on 25 December, 2011, 02:10:12 pm
Kerbump-thud.

Back on Sunday 01/01/12

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00msw6y
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Charlotte on 25 December, 2011, 06:00:13 pm
I am so looking forward to this.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Tim Hall on 26 December, 2011, 03:42:22 pm
Entirely excellent. (I hope).
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: rower40 on 01 January, 2012, 08:34:19 pm
Oh I think I'm liking this.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Illegal Combat Ant on 01 January, 2012, 08:35:49 pm
Heh. "know when you're beaten"
 ;D
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 01 January, 2012, 08:38:29 pm
So far it's very true to a scandal in Bohemia with the fire alarm thing...
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 01 January, 2012, 09:39:36 pm
That was a brilliant ending  ;D
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: David Martin on 01 January, 2012, 09:44:05 pm
Rather good..
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Karla on 01 January, 2012, 09:51:46 pm
Meh, style over substance.  I preferred the book.
Title: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 01 January, 2012, 10:44:19 pm
Did they forget to put a story in? Enjoyed it but it was 90 minutes of subplot.

d.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Karla on 01 January, 2012, 10:55:53 pm
Did they forget to put a story in? Enjoyed it but it was 90 minutes of subplot.

^^^^^ Yeah, that. 

They didn't give the original story full attention, and consequently used it up halfway through the program.  I'm in no way an advocate for strict following of books, but had they spent a bit more time developing the first scandal (which is admittedly quite a short story), they wouldn't have needed to spend so much time adding superflous twists, turns and subplots while waiting for the 90 minutes to run out.

At least they should have no such problems with the Hound next week - it has all the material they need and more.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 01 January, 2012, 11:01:28 pm
Wasn't the original scandal that a Prince of Bohemia married Irene Adler and now wanted it hushed up. That's hardly a scandal these days.
Title: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 01 January, 2012, 11:52:17 pm
There was something else that niggled about the ending and I couldn't quite put my finger on what it was, but this blogger has hit the nail squarely on the head (warning: spoilers):
http://stavvers.wordpress.com/2012/01/01/irene-adler-how-to-butcher-a-brilliant-woman-character/

d.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 03 January, 2012, 12:27:41 pm
Meh, style over substance.  I preferred the book.
the book was far too long and was lacking in charismatic actors. Give me the TV version!

It IS a little style-over-substance - but they're playing to their strengths. I'm not really a fan of detailed whodunit detection type plots; give me great visuals, cracking dialogue, a few twists, and I'm happy.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: andyoxon on 03 January, 2012, 07:59:52 pm
I don't really know what goes through the BBC schedulers minds these days - it started at 8.30pm well before the watershed and wasn't child friendly from a subject matter POV, IMO.   ::-) 

We watched on iplayer, at 10.30ish - when minis were snoozing.


Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: andygates on 03 January, 2012, 08:04:34 pm
There's your Scandal in Bohemia: pre-watershed naughtiness!  :o
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 04 January, 2012, 04:19:51 pm
A key part of the original plot was that Irene Adler could pass herself off as a man. I don't think I've ever seen character in a TV drama pass themselves off as someone of the opposite sex, without instantly realising that it was another character in drag.
The Crying game managed to do it, but that was the cinema.

Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 04 January, 2012, 04:53:17 pm
A key part of the original plot was that Irene Adler could pass herself off as a man... The Crying game managed to do it, but that was the cinema.

Interesting parallel, given the questions over Holmes's sexuality and the way Irene Adler introduces herself to him in the TV version.

d.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 04 January, 2012, 04:57:05 pm
A key part of the original plot was that Irene Adler could pass herself off as a man. I don't think I've ever seen character in a TV drama pass themselves off as someone of the opposite sex, without instantly realising that it was another character in drag.
The Crying game managed to do it, but that was the cinema.
An excellent demonstration of why slavish adaptations of books are not usually the best ones.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: gordon taylor on 06 January, 2012, 09:54:13 pm
We've just watched a recording of the Irene Adler one.
That was stunning, perhaps the best bit of TV I've seen all year.

Chapeau, BBC!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Kim on 06 January, 2012, 10:02:21 pm
I've ranted elsewhere about how they seemed to miss the point of Irene Adler[1] and how I don't actually think it was a positive representation of BDSM at all, but I would agree that 'stunning' was a fair description[2] of the episode.



[1] She should have used her manipulation skills to completely pwn Holmes, then disappear to have a far more interesting life elsewhere.
[2] The word I used at the time was 'splendid'.

Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 08 January, 2012, 09:23:35 pm
Not enjoying this one as much, as the hound of the Baskerville used to scare me as a youngster, but I've now seen so many versions I can't be scared by it. The other half however is petrified by the episode so far.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Wowbagger on 08 January, 2012, 09:59:15 pm
I've just watched one. They lied. It was.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: andygates on 08 January, 2012, 10:01:48 pm
My turn to say "meh" then, as I had it all worked out comfortably by halfway through.  Very stylish, I'll grant.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 15 January, 2012, 09:30:27 pm
This week's looks much better
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: her_welshness on 15 January, 2012, 09:44:00 pm
This week's looks much better

Oh yes  :D The opening sequence was fab.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: andygates on 15 January, 2012, 10:46:22 pm
What. The hell. Was all that bollocks.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Euan Uzami on 15 January, 2012, 11:11:17 pm
I think something to do with a mask.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: red marley on 15 January, 2012, 11:28:44 pm
After two entertaining but flawed epsiodes I thought the last one was Really Rather Good. Difficult to remake a story where we all know in advance that Sherlock has to die convincingly while stage whispering to us that he didn't really.

The ending did remind me though of the winning entry in one of the New Stateman's back page competitions a few years ago. The challenge was to write a last paragraph of a book, that if you glanced at, would put you off from reading the whole thing. I can't remember the exact details, but the winning entry was something along the lines of:

Quote
"But Holmes!", Watson exclaimed, "How could Moriarty have escaped from a locked prison cell under the eyes of six policemen", run naked though central London, get to Exeter in time to kill Lady Ainsleigh, then return to London, sneak back into his cell without anyone spotting him, all within two hours?"

"There are some things", said Holmes with a distant look in his eye, "we shall never know".
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Illegal Combat Ant on 16 January, 2012, 08:56:18 am
Look what's on John Watson's blog.

http://www.johnwatsonblog.co.uk/blog/16ajune (http://www.johnwatsonblog.co.uk/blog/16ajune)

 :-\

Great episode, really made up for the relative disappointment of last week. I think Molly's up to her neck in this.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 18 January, 2012, 11:23:40 am
I didn't like the episode, since it revolved on Sherlock
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: red marley on 18 January, 2012, 01:32:49 pm
Response to MrCharly's view below.

(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Tom B on 18 January, 2012, 01:38:16 pm
Quote
I agree that Holmes' ignorance of things computer-technical is out of character.

He seemed to well up on above in earlier episodes  :-\
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: microphonie on 18 January, 2012, 07:15:50 pm
Anyone know what the music on this Sherlock trailer is? It's also been used as incidental music in other progs over the last couple of months & it's driving me nuts because I know I've got it somewhere but can't think who it's by. My initial thought was it's by Death in Vegas but I can't locate the track if it is...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyh-Uu3gMFs


Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Steph on 22 January, 2012, 08:11:44 pm
Just something about the Hound (watching it now on iPlauer)

That was a certain werewolf Pob-alike in it...in joke?
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: David Martin on 22 January, 2012, 09:51:13 pm
The supposed ignorance of Sherlock with response to universal codes is not to do with him understanding/not understanding the technology, it is to do with Moriarty getting at Sherlock through claiming to have demonstrated such and to have informed Sherlock of it.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: TheLurker on 23 January, 2012, 08:05:47 am
In case anyone else (well it's bugging me) is pondering how SH escaped certain death my hypothesis is that he jumped into what I assume to be an open top (or possibly mesh topped) laundry lorry, NL58 BWK, that we see in the first long(ish) shot of SH's body on the pavement.  There are a few laundry bags in the back of it and it looks as though there may be many more to the front of the cargo area.  Possibly enough to make a crash mat that would make such a jump survivable if not injury free.

The lorry pulls away just before the medics and sundry onlookers get to SH. 

JW wouldn't have seen it from his viewpoint because there's a low works type building between him and the main hospital building.

The lorry must arrive after we get the first few shots from the ledge to the ground and my best guess is that it parks in the street below at about the time that SH is standing on the ledge and starts laughing as if he's worked out a solution.

Hmm. Memo to self. Get a life
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Andrij on 23 January, 2012, 09:41:15 am
A rather amusing take on the series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CL-QUltYGY&feature=share
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 23 January, 2012, 09:57:30 am
In case anyone else (well it's bugging me) is pondering how SH escaped certain death my hypothesis is that he jumped

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: TheLurker on 23 January, 2012, 11:10:33 am
In case anyone else (well it's bugging me) is pondering how SH escaped certain death my hypothesis is that he jumped

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Kathy on 23 January, 2012, 11:14:37 am
In case anyone else (well it's bugging me) is pondering how SH escaped certain death my hypothesis is that he jumped

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

That's what I think, anyway.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 23 January, 2012, 11:38:29 am
Watched it on Saturday and really enjoyed it - the cynic in me can't help wondering if my expectations had been lowered by the relative disappointment of the first two episodes, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and say I enjoyed it because it was a cracking piece of entertainment. As to what happened and how...

(click to show/hide)

d.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on 23 January, 2012, 01:27:19 pm
I've watched it twice and I'm none the wiser.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: andygates on 23 January, 2012, 07:13:04 pm
Making Watson hallucinate a Holmes that isn't there, and showing us what he sees, is the kind of sneaky sneak sneak I'd expect.  That or a Flesh duplicate.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on 23 January, 2012, 07:24:44 pm
Doctor Who crossover with the gangers?  :o
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 23 January, 2012, 08:08:04 pm
I can forgive Holmes for not being a cryptography geek. He knows so much stuff that I think we can forgive him a few holes in his knowledge. I don't think the writers wanted him to be fighting crime with cutting-edge technology - it would start blending into Spooks territory.

Think how crap a Sherlock vs The Hackers episode would be.  :hand: Give me footprint and sweet wrapper analysis any day!

<crosses fingers, touches wood ... >
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Kim on 23 January, 2012, 08:10:57 pm
P vs NP isn't cryptography geekery, it's general knowledge!


Anyway, it were Mollyarty wot dunnit.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 23 January, 2012, 08:17:19 pm
... and I don't want ANY of the scripts to feature the following text:

P vs NP

No offence meant, oh Generally Knowledgable One :P
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Feanor on 23 January, 2012, 09:33:00 pm
P vs NP isn't cryptography geekery, it's general knowledge!


Anyway, it were Mollyarty wot dunnit.

Perhaps the next episode should feature the escapades of a Travelling Salesman wot dun some badness.   And we need to figure out his various optimal routes.    Let's see how he gets on with that...
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 02 January, 2014, 02:16:57 pm
O dear :(

That was hugely disappointing! It just ... never got going, never flowed, never interested me. Not even the 'tache jokes were upto scratch. [Still not as bad as Dr Who!]

OK, I'll give the writers an excuse - they were too distracted by bringing him back to life to put a proper story together. Normal service resumed ASAP  >:(

Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 02 January, 2014, 02:24:23 pm
Not even the 'tache jokes were upto scratch.

Certainly none as good as that one.

Quote
[Still not as bad as Dr Who!]

I've been mulling over that myself and I'm not sure. There's not much in it either way.

Quote
OK, I'll give the writers an excuse - they were too distracted by bringing him back to life to put a proper story together. Normal service resumed ASAP  >:(

In a three-episode series, most of the first episode was taken up with recapping the end of the last series, largely at the epense of giving time to the potentially interesting terrorist plot... Yawn.

This seems to be the Moffat way now - all character development, very little actual story.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 02 January, 2014, 02:31:10 pm
This seems to be the Moffat way now - all character development, very little actual story.
Very true.

(but I think Gatiss wrote this one? Perhaps Moffat sticks his oar in rather too much ... )
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Kim on 02 January, 2014, 02:36:34 pm
So, thanks to the BBC and their impeccable knack for failing to provide subtitles at the most irritating moments, only the Deaf viewers got a satisfying explanation for how Sherlock faked his death (before switching off in disgust).
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 02 January, 2014, 02:39:19 pm
Really not liking it, seems to be turning into a comedy.

They did get in one real Holmes story, the one where the dad turns out to the be the person romancing the daughter to keep her at home, although updated to be online romance, rather than dressing up and make up.

It's all too big, Sherlock isn't James Bond, he doesn't need to deal with terrorist attacks, Holmes used to deal with turkeys with sapphires shoved in them, and missing persons etc.

I do enjoy Elementary, the US version, rather more these days, and another show called Psych.

Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 02 January, 2014, 02:40:48 pm
(but I think Gatiss wrote this one? Perhaps Moffat sticks his oar in rather too much ... )

I don't know. I noted the writing credit for Gatiss splashed up on screen at the start but I wouldn't have recognised it as being one of his otherwise. I also noted the "co-creator" credit for Moffat.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Wowbagger on 02 January, 2014, 03:13:31 pm
I got bored with it very quickly but Dez kept watching it. The worst thing about it was that the music was horribly intrusive.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 02 January, 2014, 03:16:39 pm
I got bored with it very quickly but Dez kept watching it. The worst thing about it was that the music was horribly intrusive.
In which case you definitely won't like Dr Who!

We really ought to get together and do something about this. Licence-payers against overly intrusive music! Hmm, might need a snappier slogan ...
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: David Martin on 02 January, 2014, 06:09:40 pm
I thought it was mostly reasonable. Definitely better than the most recent Dr Who. Was it me who was confused by them talking about the district line  and then going on about the bit between westminster and St James Park (which is the Jubilee line, which does have interesting alternative tunnels but not as interesting as the bakerloo line there.)

Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Kim on 02 January, 2014, 06:14:01 pm
We really ought to get together and do something about this. Licence-payers against overly intrusive music!

It's one of the most common causes of complaints, or at least it used to be.

Why downmixing from separate dialogue and music/effects streams in the decoder wasn't part of the DVB spec, I don't know.  Hell of a missed opportunity.  At least with a 5.1 system you can boost the centre channel.  A few dB makes all the difference.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mcshroom on 02 January, 2014, 06:30:52 pm
I thought it was mostly reasonable. Definitely better than the most recent Dr Who. Was it me who was confused by them talking about the district line  and then going on about the bit between westminster and St James Park (which is the Jubilee line, which does have interesting alternative tunnels but not as interesting as the bakerloo line there.)



No it wasn't you that was confused by the tube switches: -
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-london-underground-lines-in-sherlock-are-all-wrong
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: clarion on 02 January, 2014, 06:52:11 pm
I know what happened when he fell off the roof:
(Youtube link)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSY4fEEg4j0
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 02 January, 2014, 06:54:29 pm
I thought it was mostly reasonable. Definitely better than the most recent Dr Who. Was it me who was confused by them talking about the district line  and then going on about the bit between westminster and St James Park (which is the Jubilee line, which does have interesting alternative tunnels but not as interesting as the bakerloo line there.)



No it wasn't you that was confused by the tube switches: -
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/the-london-underground-lines-in-sherlock-are-all-wrong

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Wowbagger on 02 January, 2014, 07:08:12 pm
I got bored with it very quickly but Dez kept watching it. The worst thing about it was that the music was horribly intrusive.
In which case you definitely won't like Dr Who!

We really ought to get together and do something about this. Licence-payers against overly intrusive music! Hmm, might need a snappier slogan ...

I haven't watched Dr. Who since Tom Baker was the man.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Si on 02 January, 2014, 07:51:30 pm
I thought that it was OK, but within about 15mins I too was thinking - this is a Dr Who regeneration episode....story takes second place to explaining the oh so clever characters.

But still better than most of the stuff that has been on recently, even if the bit with the bomb at the end was a little painful to watch.....like Sherlock does The Office.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 02 January, 2014, 09:40:46 pm

the bit between westminster and St James Park (which is the Jubilee line,

No, Westminster-St James's Park is District Line.

But..

Yes, they were using Jubilee line trains to represent the District line.

Reminds me of last year's Doctor Who episode when he was whizzing round on a motorbike...
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 06 January, 2014, 10:58:19 am
Ep2: A billion times better. So good, I no longer resent sitting thru Ep1  :thumbsup:

[If you'd told me the whole thing was going to be based around the wedding I might not even have bothered ... but they really pulled it off.]
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Si on 06 January, 2014, 11:06:09 am
It was very entertaining, but did I miss-understand the murder? 
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 06 January, 2014, 11:09:43 am
Bodger; I chose to ignore the murder mechanics - just as I ignored last week's tube-line nonsense - as there was so much more fun stuff happening. The Game Was On!

[It must be pretty hard to invent a new 'locked-room' type murder technique. ]
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Jaded on 06 January, 2014, 11:10:34 am
We thought it was slow and contrived and could have benefited from 30 mins less. (The episode, not the murder ;) )
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 06 January, 2014, 11:16:45 am
Didn't enjoy it much. Style over plot.

It's getting as bad as Murder She Wrote.  Sherlock's problems with social skills are just turning him into a less sympathetic version of Monk.

I really do watch too many comedy crime dramas.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 06 January, 2014, 11:30:19 am
Tbh, I wouldn't have bothered watching it but my son put it on and I was in the same room so I kept half an eye on it. It didn't really engage my attention though - mostly just irritated me and seemed to drag on forever.

We were discussing last night how much better it would be if they re-used some of the original plots (as they did in the first series) and focused more on the mystery element rather than the tedious "character" stuff. We decided that what we'd most like to see is a modern take on The Red Headed League.

[edit: I note from here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sherlock_episodes) that the first episode of this series was supposedly based on The Empty House, but I can't say I recognised it as such.]
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 06 January, 2014, 11:40:47 am
Clearly we want different things from Sherlock! The whole of Series1 was about style and humour (I can't even remember the actual plots - one of them started with a naked woman?). Some posters are saying it was slow - well the dialogue was fizzing, so I guess some are just waiting for the plot to evolve.

I've never been all that keen on conventional crime fiction - the sort where an intriguing mystery evolves - but I know how popular that stuff has always been. I suppose the Conan Doyle stories were more in that vein (I confess I've only read a couple). This TV series really isn't trying to satisfy fans of that stuff. Moffat and Gattis made their names in quirky comedy - they're playing to their strengths here IMO.

(My only problem yesterday was having watched too much BBT recently - Holmes and Watson are a bit too much like Sheldon and Leonard! )

Each to his own :)
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 06 January, 2014, 11:56:23 am
Moffat and Gattis made their names in quirky comedy - they're playing to their strengths here IMO.

Maybe, up to a point. I remember Press Gang did focus a lot on the Lynda-Spike relationship, but never at the expense of the stories to the extent that Sherlock has done so far in this series.

The trick is balancing the character/story elements - something Moonlighting did so well. That was a great series (until it went off the rails).
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Si on 06 January, 2014, 01:32:13 pm
BTW, did you know it is Holmes' birthday today....160 years old if my maths is correct.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 06 January, 2014, 01:48:15 pm
Massive Moffat diversion:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Kim on 06 January, 2014, 02:26:38 pm
Unlike the previous episode, I quite enjoyed that one.  I must be in the *other* half of the fandom, or something.

No subtitles at all on iPlayer, so I had to repeat a few bits.   :facepalm:
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 06 January, 2014, 02:28:07 pm
I must admit Press Gang almost totally passed me by! It's always been the thing that launched the career of someone I'm watching in something else - Sawalha, Dexter etc ...

My favourite Moffat thing was Joking Apart (when Robert Bathurst still looked young).
Coupling was okaaaayy ... but I've never really appreciated Jack Davenport, so it was a bit wasted on me.

I'm guessing you were probably slightly too old for children's TV by the time Press Gang started, so it may have passed you by for that reason alone. Strictly speaking, so was I, but it was too good. (Likewise Children's Ward, the launchpad for Paul Abbott's career, which I was definitely way too old for by the time it started, but watched it anyway because it was great. Never got into Byker Grove though - another classic kids' TV series of the era that launched many acting careers.)

I missed out on Joking Apart because it first aired at a time when I was watching very little TV (I was a student). Coupling I quite enjoyed - despite Jack Davenport. Like a British Friends but funnier and not as annoying (deliberately contentious statement).

To get back on topic, I don't think my problem with Sherlock is stylistic. If you look at two of the best Doctor Who episodes written by Moffat - Blink and The Girl In The Fireplace - they're mainly about the Doctor's relationship with a female character, but set within the context of very strong stories. That's what I think is missing from Sherlock.

Btw, further Moffat incest: the first two series of Coupling were produced by Beryl Vertue, Sue's mum.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 06 January, 2014, 02:38:43 pm
I missed out on Joking Apart because it first aired at a time when I was watching very little TV (I was a student). Coupling I quite enjoyed - despite Jack Davenport. Like a British Friends but funnier and not as annoying (deliberately contentious statement).

Pretty fair comparison! Friends could be bloody funny, but BOY could it be annoying (I think the writing peaked in S1). Again, the focus was too much on an unfunny central character - Ross in the case of Friends. IIRC the welsh guy was the best thing in Coupling, but it's been a while.

Did Coupling steal the 3boys+3girls setup? Or did Friends steal it from somewhere else? (These things are rarely original I know ... )
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 06 January, 2014, 02:56:23 pm
Did Coupling steal the 3boys+3girls setup? Or did Friends steal it from somewhere else? (These things are rarely original I know ... )

If Moffat tried to claim that Coupling wasn't inspired by Friends, I wouldn't believe him! No idea about the origin of Friends but I imagine that close analysis would probably reveal it nicked most of its ideas from Bilko or Mary Tyler Moore or Taxi or Cheers...
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: LEE on 06 January, 2014, 04:17:57 pm
I don't know how you don't notice someone stabbing you but, that aside, I'm enjoying Sherlock.

It's nice, whimsical, entertainment and the convoluted plots are easy enough to follow (unlike the latest Dr Who stuff, which makes the "Memento" story line seem like "Rocky").

Perfect weekend Telly really.  Best if you don't think too hard about it.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Kim on 06 January, 2014, 04:27:40 pm
I don't know how you don't notice someone stabbing you

Serious injuries can be remarkably painless, especially when they coincide with something sufficiently distracting (usually a non-serious injury, admittedly, but I can imagine someone trained to ignore random itching could also ignore a neat stab wound).  If you've got through life without discovering this, then you're winning.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: David Martin on 06 January, 2014, 04:33:42 pm
It would be very thin, aiming for one of the major vessels and held under tight compression (a belt is tight but not that tight). Ingenious idea and no worse than many suspensions of belief that are required.

I've done the 'where is that blood coming from?' thing before (but not to that scale).

The wedding speech - pushing it to the edge of absurdity then reeling it back in again time after time.

I thought it overall was quite good, the stag night with measuring cylinders was hillarious.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: redshift on 06 January, 2014, 04:42:05 pm
I don't know how you don't notice someone stabbing you

Serious injuries can be remarkably painless, especially when they coincide with something sufficiently distracting (usually a non-serious injury, admittedly, but I can imagine someone trained to ignore random itching could also ignore a neat stab wound).  If you've got through life without discovering this, then you're winning.

This is true.  When I smashed a window with my knee, the glass made a fairly serious cut into the patellar tendon and under the kneecap.  I didn't notice at all, until I realised that everyone around me was staring with a combination of fascination and horror as my shoe filled with blood.  I was more worried about the window, and what the headmistress would say.   ::-)
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Kim on 06 January, 2014, 05:26:53 pm
The "not getting into trouble" and "is the bike okay?" instincts are fairly strong.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Si on 07 January, 2014, 01:31:41 pm
I think that even if you didn't notice the pain of the needle, you'd notice the assailant initially trying to push the weapon through your thick leather military belt.

I sort of agree that a certain amount of suspension of disbelief is required, yet the whole premise of Holmes is that everything is the ultimate in logical reasoned deduction.  Least ways it used to be back in Rathbone's day (who of course, is still the best - not as moody as Brett maybe but at least he didn't put you to sleep  :P).
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: ran doner on 07 January, 2014, 02:04:23 pm
First episode was one big yawn. Second better. Now they'll leave us with a cliff hanger again  :facepalm:

I'm with geraldc upthread: Elementary is just as good (better in fact  :demon:).
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Kim on 07 January, 2014, 02:21:19 pm
I'm with geraldc upthread: Elementary is just as good (better in fact  :demon:).

They're both good.  In different ways.

As was the Granada series, the Hammer film, SH22 and Basil The Great Mouse Detective.

That's the whole point in retelling the Holmes stories and characters.  To do it differently.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: bikenrrd on 07 January, 2014, 04:03:03 pm

As was the Granada series, the Hammer film, SH22 and Basil The Great Mouse Detective.


The Shane Guy Ritchie films are entertaining too.

I thought the last episode was very clever in the way everything came together at the end, but it wasn't particularly enjoyable to watch.
Oh well, it's only TV! (and Sherlock hasn't got as bad as Homeland yet).
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: fuzzy on 08 January, 2014, 12:24:32 pm
I think that even if you didn't notice the pain of the needle, you'd notice the assailant initially trying to push the weapon through your thick leather military belt.
I sort of agree that a certain amount of suspension of disbelief is required, yet the whole premise of Holmes is that everything is the ultimate in logical reasoned deduction.  Least ways it used to be back in Rathbone's day (who of course, is still the best - not as moody as Brett maybe but at least he didn't put you to sleep  :P).
Many military belts have holes along their full length.

Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: fuzzy on 08 January, 2014, 12:26:11 pm
I'm with geraldc upthread: Elementary is just as good (better in fact  :demon:).

The early Elementary episodes were excellent.

The story lines are now getting a tad silly.

Johnny Lee makes a good Holmes.

Lucy is a delightful Watson.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: drgannet on 08 January, 2014, 12:42:56 pm
Really enjoyed episode 2, which was a relief after fearing Sherlock might go the same way as Dr Who after the rambling (and poor) episode 1. I like the passing references to elements from the original stories, but in the modern sense, althohugh this series has certainly moved further away then the first 2.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Tigerrr on 08 January, 2014, 01:56:35 pm
I think that even if you didn't notice the pain of the needle, you'd notice the assailant initially trying to push the weapon through your thick leather military belt.
I sort of agree that a certain amount of suspension of disbelief is required, yet the whole premise of Holmes is that everything is the ultimate in logical reasoned deduction.  Least ways it used to be back in Rathbone's day (who of course, is still the best - not as moody as Brett maybe but at least he didn't put you to sleep  :P).
Many military belts have holes along their full length.
I think this was in fact a webbing belt by the look of it. Not sure if that would be easier to penetrate with the skewer. It would need to be very tight indeed though and would certainly look a bit odd. I am going to try it out on my brother though to see if it works.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Si on 08 January, 2014, 02:16:33 pm
I think that even if you didn't notice the pain of the needle, you'd notice the assailant initially trying to push the weapon through your thick leather military belt.
I sort of agree that a certain amount of suspension of disbelief is required, yet the whole premise of Holmes is that everything is the ultimate in logical reasoned deduction.  Least ways it used to be back in Rathbone's day (who of course, is still the best - not as moody as Brett maybe but at least he didn't put you to sleep  :P).
Many military belts have holes along their full length.

But then the victims insides would have oozed out through the hole wouldn't they?
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Eccentrica Gallumbits on 09 January, 2014, 09:23:09 pm
I've just watched it. Really liked it. Much better than the first one. I cackled a lot.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 12 January, 2014, 10:08:21 pm
Well that was an excellent end of series finale. All is forgiven!
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Jaded on 12 January, 2014, 10:24:24 pm
Lots filmed locally.

It was the best of the series.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Kim on 13 January, 2014, 12:32:36 am
Meh.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Ashaman42 on 13 January, 2014, 06:39:37 am
I enjoyed that, lots of fun  :thumbsup: Think I preferred the wedding episode though.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Charlotte on 13 January, 2014, 08:36:04 am
I thought it was absolutely brilliant.  I love the way that all the characters have developed beyond mere sidekicks for Sherlock and I love the way that the writers have taken Conan Doyle's original and done something bold and modern with it.

Most people are deeply conservative and want the thing to play out in a particular way.  Gatiss, Moffat and Thompson didn't treat the original books with reverence and I think that annoys a lot of people.

Did anybody spot that the actors playing Sherlock's Mum and Dad were actually Timothy Carlton and Wanda Ventham, Benedict Cumberbatch's parents?

/obligraun (http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/jan/13/sherlock-tv-review-lucy-mangan)
Title: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 13 January, 2014, 09:03:42 am
I was quite enjoying it for the first half an hour or so, up to the point where Sherlock noticed the big toothy fish in the harbour and got his water skis out... I don't mind that they've made Mary more of a character than she was in the books, but what they've made her is just silly.

The last hour seemed to go on for an eternity.

Troels made a great Bad Dude though.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Greenbank on 13 January, 2014, 11:31:30 am
Did anybody spot that the actors playing Sherlock's Mum and Dad were actually Timothy Carlton and Wanda Ventham, Benedict Cumberbatch's parents?

Mary (Amanda Abbington) is Martin Freeman's other half in real life too.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: fuzzy on 13 January, 2014, 11:57:18 am
I was quite enjoying it for the first half an hour or so, up to the point where Sherlock noticed the big toothy fish in the harbour and got his water skis out... I don't mind that they've made Mary more of a character than she was in the books, but what they've made her is just silly.

The last hour seemed to go on for an eternity.

Troels made a great Bad Dude though.

WT actual F?
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 13 January, 2014, 12:01:56 pm
WT actual F?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

Oblique reference to the scene in Bad Dude's apartment with Mary.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Kim on 13 January, 2014, 01:32:35 pm
As I said last night in reply to someone considering wheter or not it had jumped the shark: It was more of a Sharknado.  (And I mean that in a good way, I just had higher hopes after last week's episode.)

Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 13 January, 2014, 02:28:42 pm
As I said last night in reply to someone considering wheter or not it had jumped the shark: It was more of a Sharknado.  (And I mean that in a good way, I just had higher hopes after last week's episode.)

I think that's a fair comment.  ;D
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: fuzzy on 13 January, 2014, 03:18:26 pm
WT actual F?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

Oblique reference to the scene in Bad Dude's apartment with Mary.

Ah! I'm with you now- I think.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 13 January, 2014, 03:21:36 pm
The bit where... <spoiler snipped>

Oh, I quite liked that. It was fun. I was thinking of the revelation about a certain character's past.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: fuzzy on 13 January, 2014, 03:31:50 pm
The bit where... <spoiler snipped>

Oh, I quite liked that. It was fun. I was thinking of the revelation about a certain character's past.

See that bright light floating just above my head?

Thats me getting it that is ;D
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 13 January, 2014, 07:08:13 pm
Did anybody spot that the actors playing Sherlock's Mum and Dad were actually Timothy Carlton and Wanda Ventham, Benedict Cumberbatch's parents?

Mary (Amanda Abbington) is Martin Freeman's other half in real life too.
Further trivia: I believe they're still "living in sin", but have now married on screen 3 times!

(Anyone else still think of Abbington in The Bill? God I feel old ... )

Anyhoo, we really enjoyed this one. I'm quite impressed that they could make 3 such varied episodes.

My favourite is still the wedding episode, but I can imagine if you prefer the drama over the zaniness, then Ep3 would be preferred (unless you hate the whole series!)
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: spindrift on 13 January, 2014, 07:26:34 pm
"He made me wear his hat!"
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Asterix, the former Gaul. on 16 January, 2014, 07:41:32 am
It's a modern caricature of the original Conan Doyle stuff.  Obviously the original was written as being bang-up-to-date too but the makers of this re-take knew perfectly well they could not match Conan Doyle on his own turf and went off at a tangent.   A good try but of course not in the same 'League'.   The terminator-like thought 'screens' are way out of date and might be fine for a robot but the human brain simply doesn't work like that.  Not even if you are Sherlock Holmes.  Unless of course he is later revealed to be an android*.

 Milverton Magnusson was good and would also have made an excellent job in the original setting.



* a possible explanation for the re-appearance after the fatal leap.  Military grade or a re-build.
Title: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 16 January, 2014, 09:04:10 am
Milverton Magnusson was good and would also have made an excellent job in the original setting.

Actually, having previously complained that they stray too far from the original stories, it's only fair to say that I thought they did very well with this one. And it's one of my favourite Holmes stories so I had high expectations. Making Milverton/Magnusson a Murdoch-style media mogul was... marvellous.

Shame they had to spoil it slightly by having Holmes be the one to do him in. It just felt wrong.

I suppose the only alternative would have been for Mary to do it, which would have ruined her redemption story. But that was a load of tosh too.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 16 January, 2014, 09:10:29 am
Incidentally, for a modern update of Holmes, I don't think you can do better than Bert Coules. He adapted many of the original stories for radio but then also wrote some more of his own, fleshing out some of the many cases mentioned in passing in the original books. He uses the original characters in the original setting but there's definitely a modern sensibility to his work.

Also, Clive Mereson, who plays Holmes in the Coules radio versions, knocks Cumberbatch into a cocked hat.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: fuzzy on 16 January, 2014, 09:24:09 am
It's a modern caricature of the original Conan Doyle stuff.  Obviously the original was written as being bang-up-to-date too but the makers of this re-take knew perfectly well they could not match Conan Doyle on his own turf and went off at a tangent.   A good try but of course not in the same 'League'.   The terminator-like thought 'screens' are way out of date and might be fine for a robot but the human brain simply doesn't work like that.  Not even if you are Sherlock Holmes.  Unless of course he is later revealed to be an android*.

 Milverton Magnusson was good and would also have made an excellent job in the original setting.



* a possible explanation for the re-appearance after the fatal leap.  Military grade or a re-build.

Your brain doesn't work that way. I'm not sue mine does either but then, I'm not Sherlock Holmes. Some folks branes may work that way. In fact most folks branes may work that way and the fact that yours and mine don't may indicate that we are androids :D
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Tim Hall on 16 January, 2014, 09:53:47 am
Incidentally, for a modern update of Holmes, I don't think you can do better than Bert Coules. He adapted many of the original stories for radio but then also wrote some more of his own, fleshing out some of the many cases mentioned in passing in the original books. He uses the original characters in the original setting but there's definitely a modern sensibility to his work.

Also, Clive Mereson, who plays Holmes in the Coules radio versions, knocks Cumberbatch into a cocked hat.

I've got lots of the Bert Coules stuff as MP3, grabbed from Radio 4 Extra when it pops up from time to time. In fact there's a series just finishing at the moment.  But the two things (recent TV and Coules' radio stuff) are very different beasts.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 16 January, 2014, 09:57:36 am
the two things (recent TV and Coules' radio stuff) are very different beasts.

True. Very different. And Coules is better. ;)

I'd like to see a Bert Coules take on putting Holmes in a modern setting.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: redshift on 16 January, 2014, 10:15:24 am
Your brain doesn't work that way. I'm not sue mine does either but then, I'm not Sherlock Holmes. Some folks branes may work that way. In fact most folks branes may work that way and the fact that yours and mine don't may indicate that we are androids :D

The visualisation thing?  My brain does that very strongly in at least one context:  Vision Mixers.  Multiple sources through multiple layers to multiple outputs simultaneously, along with auxiliary outputs and Digital Video Effects layers.  Some of the layers are re-entrant into other layers, others are cut through by the use of 'key' signals which partially split layers.  Transitions can be between sources, or layers, or a mixture of both.

After many years working with these and setting them up for use, I find myself 'looking' at them with a distinct mental picture of signal paths and layers which I can't adequately describe to other people - it just 'is'.  The brain-training period for this is approaching 26 years.

Branes.  Go figure.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: fuzzy on 16 January, 2014, 10:30:26 am
Your brain doesn't work that way. I'm not sue mine does either but then, I'm not Sherlock Holmes. Some folks branes may work that way. In fact most folks branes may work that way and the fact that yours and mine don't may indicate that we are androids :D

The visualisation thing?  My brain does that very strongly in at least one context:  Vision Mixers.  Multiple sources through multiple layers to multiple outputs simultaneously, along with auxiliary outputs and Digital Video Effects layers.  Some of the layers are re-entrant into other layers, others are cut through by the use of 'key' signals which partially split layers.  Transitions can be between sources, or layers, or a mixture of both.

After many years working with these and setting them up for use, I find myself 'looking' at them with a distinct mental picture of signal paths and layers which I can't adequately describe to other people - it just 'is'.  The brain-training period for this is approaching 26 years.

Branes.  Go figure.

Mine works on an audio visual basis. If I am thinking about something, how to molish something for example, I see the steps of the molishment in my head. If I am reading a book, I see my own private film as I read, hearing the characters speak their parts. If I am thinking about a concept, for example a recipe or a formula, I 'hear' the words in my head- someone, usualy the author if it is a cookbook where I have heard the author, SWMBO or myself otherwise, says"take 200 grams of self raising flour and add 50 grams of salted butter" etc. The only time I see written script is when that is what I am thinking about.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Kim on 16 January, 2014, 03:43:29 pm
It's a modern caricature of the original Conan Doyle stuff.  Obviously the original was written as being bang-up-to-date too but the makers of this re-take knew perfectly well they could not match Conan Doyle on his own turf and went off at a tangent.   A good try but of course not in the same 'League'.

Yes, they could commision yet another faithful-as-possible adaptation of the original stories, but really, what would be the point?

It's fan fiction, from one of the strongest fandoms there is.  The whole point is to do something differently, exploring the characters and settings.  It's just like all that slash you probably don't read on the internet, but by a couple of established TV writers with a stonking great budget. 


Quote
The terminator-like thought 'screens' are way out of date and might be fine for a robot but the human brain simply doesn't work like that.  Not even if you are Sherlock Holmes.  Unless of course he is later revealed to be an android*.

If you're going to nitpick, let's be realistic here for a minute.  For a start, no robot is ever going to 'think' by overlaying English text (or 6502 assembly code) on it's raw uninterpreted visual input.  That's just ridiculous.

On the other hand, if you want to convey someone's thoughts on screen, you don't have a whole lot of options.  You can have them do a voice over.  Or you can cut to a series of flashbacks to them learning relevant things.  Or flash forward to them explaining why they did what they're about to do.  Or you could draw some text or diagrams on the screen.  Why not?  It's quick, easily interpreted, and doesn't detract from the pace like traditional approaches.  If you're going to object to that, then why not the dozens of other screen storytelling cliches that were no doubt used in the same programme, but we're so used to that they were allowed to pass without comment?

I can take or leave Sherlock's thought overlay, but I *really* like the way that pop-up text is used to show what people are reading from electronic devices, as an alternative to a clunky close-up of a MovieOS display, or writing in a phone call where a text message would be used.  I also loved the way the subtitles were done on Heroes (both the open captioning of non-English languages, and the closed captions for the hearing impaired on the HD-DVD[1] release) - positioned around the screen like speech bubbles in a comic, rather than boringly static at the bottom of the screen.  It's innovative, I like it, some people don't.


As for brains, mine works in a way not entirely dissimilar to redshift's, at least some of the time.  It's not verbal, or really visual, just an abstract sense of the connectivity of a system.  Good for problem solving, but hard to communicate without translation.  If a writer were to represent it on screen, they'd probably resort to a high-speed series of clichés reminiscent of The Matrix, Prison Break or Numb3rs (or any science fiction scene that results in a character having a spontaneous nosebleed).  But that's really not what's happening in my head.


[1] I'm not sure whether the Blu-Ray standard allows you to do that with closed captions.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 16 January, 2014, 03:45:22 pm
It's fan fiction, from one of the strongest fandoms there is.  The whole point is to do something differently, exploring the characters and settings.  It's just like all that slash you probably don't read on the internet, but by a couple of established TV writers with a stonking great budget.

Yadda yadda baby yadda yadda bathwater...
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Kim on 16 January, 2014, 03:46:51 pm
It's fan fiction, from one of the strongest fandoms there is.  The whole point is to do something differently, exploring the characters and settings.  It's just like all that slash you probably don't read on the internet, but by a couple of established TV writers with a stonking great budget.

Yadda yadda baby yadda yadda bathwater...

 ???
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: mattc on 16 January, 2014, 06:28:08 pm
For once*, I am completey in agreement with Kim's post.


*It's rare that I actually understand  more than 80%.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 21 May, 2014, 08:55:34 pm
The wonderful thing about being a Sherlock fan in the modern age is that is keeps subverting itself, but always remaining recognisable to the original characters. Just watched the latest episode of Elementary, all wonderfully silly
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: LEE on 09 January, 2017, 03:44:08 pm
Too good.

I love the way this series is written. 
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: ElyDave on 09 January, 2017, 04:13:02 pm
If ypu've read the books as well it's great to be able to see the new interpretation but the threads of the original as well, such as last week's death of Mary Watson.  In the originals, Watson gets married and pretty much next book he's there again as she's died of some unknown/unnamed Victorian disease. I was sat last week explaining all this to the wife.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Mr Larrington on 09 January, 2017, 06:55:22 pm
If Cucumberpatch doesn't stop mumbling I shall be Displeased.  Honestly, he's turning into Rafe Spall.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Ashaman42 on 10 January, 2017, 07:22:43 am
Agreed, they were all quite bad last episode, the amount of times we had to rewind to work out what people were saying was ridiculous.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Jaded on 10 January, 2017, 11:32:46 am
Unfortunately subtitles are your friend.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Charlotte on 10 January, 2017, 01:48:18 pm
Still fucking awesome.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 10 January, 2017, 03:42:38 pm
It's fan fiction, from one of the strongest fandoms there is.  The whole point is to do something differently, exploring the characters and settings.  It's just like all that slash you probably don't read on the internet, but by a couple of established TV writers with a stonking great budget.

Yadda yadda baby yadda yadda bathwater...

 ???

Looking back on my post 2 years down the line, I'm not sure what I meant either.  ;D

Actually, I think I can work it out - I probably meant they've 'updated' it so much that they've lost sight of what was good about the originals. Last episode I watched was Sherlock in name only... I've not watched any of the recent episodes because I've been put off by the reviews. Maybe I should give it a chance, but I've hardly watched any telly recently so it's not like I'm singling out Sherlock to ignore.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Wascally Weasel on 10 January, 2017, 04:44:28 pm
I think it's terrible but it's probably a good thing that I'm in the minority (in that it's surely better that there are more people enjoying it than not).
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: LEE on 12 January, 2017, 09:40:54 am
Last episode I watched was Sherlock in name only

I've never read any Sherlock Holmes so I can't compare it with the books.

Surely the "originals" have been done to death though, and there's no point re-hashing them yet again.

Sherlock seems to be a blend of Conan Doyle's Holmes with Douglas Adams' Dirk Gently, and with lots of money thrown at it. 

No bad thing in my book.  I've found the last two episodes to be genuinely exciting and interesting.

Clear Jimmy Savile references throughout (to help create a true monster I expect).
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Ruthie on 12 January, 2017, 10:15:40 am
Last episode I watched was Sherlock in name only

I've never read any Sherlock Holmes so I can't compare it with the books.

Surely the "originals" have been done to death though, and there's no point re-hashing them yet again.

Sherlock seems to be a blend of Conan Doyle's Holmes with Douglas Adams' Dirk Gently, and with lots of money thrown at it. 

No bad thing in my book.  I've found the last two episodes to be genuinely exciting and interesting.

Clear Jimmy Savile references throughout (to help create a true monster I expect).

I've never read any of the Conan Doyle books either, and I really like the TV programme.  Agree about the Jimmy Savile references, it was so chilling!

Whoever played the corpse in the mortuary was either exceptionally good at it, or genuinely dead.  I hope it was the first one  ;D
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: trekker12 on 12 January, 2017, 10:30:09 am
This has been the best series so far. I only watched this weeks episode last night and it was brilliant, enthralling all the way through.

I had to look away (tiny bit squeamish) during the mortuary scene so didn't concentrate on the body much but we watched a making of NCIS on the DVD (also a fan) in which they need lots of 'bodies' in the mortuary and they are usually very realistic dummies rather than real people. There's whole companies in Hollywood dedicated to making them. I assume this was something similar.

I've never read the Conan Doyle books either but was riding in this morning thinking I should give it a go to see how it's been interpreted. I have no issues with modern interpretations of classics, particularly if it gets me reading the original.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 12 January, 2017, 10:35:48 am
Surely the "originals" have been done to death though, and there's no point re-hashing them yet again.

Why do it at all? Why not come up with something different?

Quote
No bad thing in my book.  I've found the last two episodes to be genuinely exciting and interesting.

I'll probably get round to watching them at some point but there's too much other stuff on the telly to keep up with - some of which isn't entirely derivative of old ideas...
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: LEE on 12 January, 2017, 11:31:23 am

I'll probably get round to watching them at some point but there's too much other stuff on the telly to keep up with - some of which isn't entirely derivative of old ideas...

Good luck with finding them.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: fuzzy on 12 January, 2017, 01:34:25 pm
Sherlock, being shorter seasons, holds its own much better than Elementary. I thought the 'Merkin version was good to start with and Joan Watson can deal with me any day but, the story arcs are getting very silly now.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: LEE on 12 January, 2017, 01:53:44 pm
Worth noting, if you are looking for originality, that the filming, and even more so, the editing, of Sherlock is masterful.

I may watch the episode again, knowing the outcome, to see how carefully the clues were presented...."Anyone".
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Mr Larrington on 16 January, 2017, 01:00:31 am
As a finale, that left something to be desired :(
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: geraldc on 16 January, 2017, 10:23:33 am
I'm a fan of a more conventional Sherlock , ie what Conan Doyle wrote (the psychopath sister in league with Moriarty was a step too far for me), and enjoyed explaining the throwaway bits, the Dancing men code, and the Garridebs to show off to my not in anyway interested wife. My wife who's not a fan of conventional Sherlock enjoyed it and was scared by the opening.
The end bit where Holmes and Watson are seen exiting Rathbone house, I initially mistook for them leaving a registry office together.

Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Mr Larrington on 16 January, 2017, 11:06:27 am
Moriarty would have been more threatening if he didn't remind me so much of Ronnie O'Sullivan.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: LEE on 16 January, 2017, 11:50:23 am
As a finale, that left something to be desired :(

Agreed.  I found myself thinking, "Get on with it" on several occasions.

The forgotten genius sister had such potential but it all got a bit Ghost-Train.  The final reveal should have been all the characters that she'd played up to that point.

Ah well... I've moved on to TABOO with Tom Hardy now.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Mr Larrington on 16 January, 2017, 01:28:07 pm
The forgotten genius sister was Alice Morgan from "Luther" with the interesting bits removed.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Riggers on 16 January, 2017, 01:35:28 pm
I fell asleep halfway through the second episode of Sherlock (and not watched last night's final episode), and found this new frenetic-style far too distracting and disjointed. Clever, intricate and very well crafted it might be, but felt it had been taken too much into the world of psychedelia – which would make for an interesting cookery programme for Delia Smith – baking mind-altering dishes for the adventurous … "sprinkle Angel Dust sparingly on this one!"
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: fuzzy on 16 January, 2017, 10:33:34 pm
Well, just caught up with the finale......

Shouldn't have bothered.

More pointless, silly, 'Hollywood' fucking around than Elementary.

Come back early Sherlock. Please!
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: spesh on 16 January, 2017, 10:46:34 pm
http://newsthump.com/2017/01/16/missing-persons-case-opened-after-sherlock-writer-vanishes-up-his-own-arse/
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: citoyen on 17 January, 2017, 10:58:32 am
This is essentially what I've been saying about Sherlock and Doctor Who for ages, though it's not only about those two shows...

https://www.1843magazine.com/culture/the-daily/the-small-world-of-modern-thrillers

Totally spot on, I reckon.
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Mr Larrington on 17 January, 2017, 11:18:31 am
http://newsthump.com/2017/01/16/missing-persons-case-opened-after-sherlock-writer-vanishes-up-his-own-arse/

I seem to recall having used a similar phrase about the last Christmas Special :D
Title: Re: Sherlock
Post by: Jaded on 20 July, 2017, 09:09:15 am
Last night we had dinner in the room Dr Watson had his wedding in.

 :P