Author Topic: Tandems for kids  (Read 6981 times)

Tandems for kids
« on: 15 February, 2016, 05:00:58 pm »
Or more accurately, tandems for a child/adult pair.

Small L is Not So Small any more (4 next month!) and is going to grow out of the bike seat soon enough.

He's getting his own pedal bike for his birthday and I'm looking at those trailgator thingies, but I don't think that will last to the point where I would be happy for him to ride regularly/for transport on London roads even with a parent right there with him. So... tandem? What sort of a tandem is particularly forgiving of different size stokers? bonus points for also being easy to adjust for changing the captain over so he can ride with either parent. Even more bonus points if it's one of those ones where you can take it apart to get it on a train (ok I might be asking the impossible or at least very expensive here).

Chris S

Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #1 on: 15 February, 2016, 05:03:06 pm »
Crinklylion will be along shortly (although it's half-term, so she may be asleep)  - she and the cubs are Helios regulars.

Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #2 on: 15 February, 2016, 05:21:08 pm »
Crinkly and/or hatler (otp) might be good sources of the sort of info you're looking for J.
4
Wow!
Hope all is well.
J
ETA - Or Chris OTP

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #3 on: 15 February, 2016, 05:39:59 pm »
Doesn't the lovely Butterfly also hoon through the streets of Sarf Lunnon on a Helios?
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Chris S

Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #4 on: 15 February, 2016, 06:03:04 pm »
Doesn't the lovely Butterfly also hoon through the streets of Sarf Lunnon on a Helios?

I believe so.

Kim

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Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #5 on: 15 February, 2016, 06:21:24 pm »
She's got a better saddle on the back than Crinkles, too    ;)

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #6 on: 15 February, 2016, 09:49:31 pm »
*yawns*

*stretches*

Did someone say summat about tandems and Small People?

Better saddle for who, though Kim?  The Cubs have happily enough done a 50 (SmallestCub) and a 100 (EldestCub) using the islabikes one that's on there.  They have both got miniscule arses tho - and the one time I stoked on it I swapped the saddle for something sensible first :)

I thoroughly recommend the Helios - best thing we ever bought.  The SmallestCub was 6 when we bought it and he started stoking for me, but he'd had a lovely trip out on the back of Butterfly's one (using the crank shorteners, cos he's tiny) when he was 4. 

Ours has been piloted by me (5'1"), the EldestCub (slightly taller), CrinklyAuntie (slightly taller again), CrinklyUncle (looks quite tall to me) and Deano otp (who I believe is 6').  Stokers have included both Cubs (and several of their school friends have had a turn), me, one of my headteachers (who was wearing a smart suit and high heels at the time - we got a round of applause from year 1-4 when we returned from our trip round the block and executed a faultless stop and dismount) and CrinklyAuntie who courageously stoked it for me all the way home from Granny Annie's once despite the potential for sibling bickering and the fact that I'm a left-foot-down big gear masher and she's a wrong-foot-down small-gear-spinner.  Nikki and Kim also had a play in the park once.  Oh, and my old uni friend Martin took it out for a spin with his 9yo daughter when they popped in for lunch last summer when they were in town for my ex's wedding and she was rather taken with it :) 

The QR seatposts are marked so if you can remember your numbers it's a matter of moments to adjust correctly so long as the stoker bars aren't sent somewhere completely silly (they don't take long to alter but you'd need an allen key) and the saddles suit the likely riders to an acceptable level.

I also ride it stokerless all the time after doing the school run, on my way to work - including 8 miles out to my furthest site on occasion - and am about the same speed on it as on my sensible hybrid.  Since we bought it they have started to do a version that can indeed be taken apart for transport which I would have got an even bigger mortgage to pay for had it been available at the time. 

Test rides always available in York, along with overnight accommodation and guided tours to Clarion and Butterfly's local or a range of other Yorkish hot-spots, by arrangement.  Oh, and cake, generally.

Kim

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Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #7 on: 15 February, 2016, 10:05:50 pm »
The Helios is splendidly tolerant of small pilots and big stokers, which is also a major bonus.

And it does that cargo bike thing, if you're so inclined.

Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #8 on: 16 February, 2016, 08:56:35 am »
Helios sounds like one to investigate then, thank you!

We'll have to get rid of the Christiania to fit it into the garage, I fear :( still, the Christiania has been lovely for taking Small L around locally (especially if going to shops or library), and fantastic for taking things to the tip and buying large quantities of compost; but even now I use bike+rear seat for anything over 3 miles, and we do still have a bike trailer for heavy loads (more hassle cos you have to tie things down, but much smaller to store. So I can make peace with it moving on elsewhere :)

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #9 on: 16 February, 2016, 09:43:32 am »
It is, with the exception of the Den, the most expensive thing I have ever bought in my life - partly because it was a one-shot deal for me and I knew that the 'buy basic, upgrade along the way' model wouldn't work for me so I specced it with dual-drive (partly because of crank length), BB7s, SP dynamo and B&M light, trek rack to match existing luggage, prop stand, brompton block - the lot!  The one mistake I made was the bars.  I was steered away from my instinct to fit a more expensive combination of flats+ergon touring barends and went with the stock bars.  I should have spent the extra to start off with, and they've since been swapped for a set donated by interzen occasionally otp.  I also needed to lose about an inch and a half from the pilot seatpost to get it to drop low enough for me - the shop I bought it from actually offered to do the same on one of the Helios that the owners own, so that I could test ride it although I didn't hold them to the offer.  It still goes comfortably high enough for 6-footers.  I have said that if any other shortarses want a test ride in future they should give me a shout. 

Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #10 on: 16 February, 2016, 10:05:48 am »
Perhaps this should be a separate post, but: does anyone reading have any experience of the Trailgator? I'm wondering if it's realistic to use that for on-road cycling at all or if we should go straight for the tandem.

I have two specific use cases in mind:
- regular day-to-day riding around central London (we ride Tower Bridge-Aldgate-Shoreditch regularly, for example).
- 25 miles from Bristol to Glastonbury in the summer. Last year we did it in 3 short stages but I still got really, really knackered with the bike seat, and he's bigger/heavier now.

Wondering if I can plough on with the bike seat for another year for London, and try the Trailgator for the quieter country-roads Glastonbury ride; or whether it's worth tandem-ing NOW.

Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #11 on: 16 February, 2016, 04:56:57 pm »
If you get a Helios he can go on it now and for ever after. Even unto the time when he's 6' and pilots you on the stoker seat.

Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #12 on: 16 February, 2016, 05:13:02 pm »
Perhaps this should be a separate post, but: does anyone reading have any experience of the Trailgator? I'm wondering if it's realistic to use that for on-road cycling at all or if we should go straight for the tandem.

I have two specific use cases in mind:
- regular day-to-day riding around central London (we ride Tower Bridge-Aldgate-Shoreditch regularly, for example).
- 25 miles from Bristol to Glastonbury in the summer. Last year we did it in 3 short stages but I still got really, really knackered with the bike seat, and he's bigger/heavier now.

Wondering if I can plough on with the bike seat for another year for London, and try the Trailgator for the quieter country-roads Glastonbury ride; or whether it's worth tandem-ing NOW.

I didn't like the look of the Trailgator, so went for the followme instead. Review here.  It is not the equal of a Helios on the road, but it is cheaper, smaller to store, and a very flexible system.

Difficult for me to answer your two uses cases honestly because I'm more of a village/town person myself.  I can't imagine choosing regular day-to-day riding around central London with the kids.  The 25 miles yes, no hesitation.

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #13 on: 16 February, 2016, 05:40:06 pm »
As well as the other Helios and a kiddycrank adapted full size tandem, there's a couple of those [ETA - the followme thingies] that pretty regularly turn up in the bike stands at SmallestCub's school.  Their riders seem pretty happy with them!

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #14 on: 16 February, 2016, 07:43:08 pm »
Perhaps this should be a separate post, but: does anyone reading have any experience of the Trailgator? I'm wondering if it's realistic to use that for on-road cycling at all or if we should go straight for the tandem.

I have two specific use cases in mind:
- regular day-to-day riding around central London (we ride Tower Bridge-Aldgate-Shoreditch regularly, for example).
- 25 miles from Bristol to Glastonbury in the summer. Last year we did it in 3 short stages but I still got really, really knackered with the bike seat, and he's bigger/heavier now.

Wondering if I can plough on with the bike seat for another year for London, and try the Trailgator for the quieter country-roads Glastonbury ride; or whether it's worth tandem-ing NOW.

When my son was in the range 6-8 years, I used a trailgator for longer rides.  Being on the edge of the Chilterns, I figured it would be too cruel to expect him to do much pedalling up hill!

Never had any real issues once I'd got used to how the combined contraptions operated, as there was a fair amount of sideways pull if he leaned over.  Going round corners had to be done slowly.  In addition, sometimes it seemed as though his bike wasn't quite in line with mine.  It was (generally) good fun, especially as it meant he could be unhooked and then zoom around, wherever we'd gone to. 

Having said that, I love my Helios, although it's rare it's used as a tandem - I think about 5 times in 2 years - as it's always in cargo mode.

For cycling in central London, I'd say get the Helios, and then for country rides, use a trailgator.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #15 on: 16 February, 2016, 10:14:54 pm »
You are very welcome to try our Helios out. Nye is nearly big enough to stoke but not quite. I've had a 3 year old stoker and clarion has stoked so it's pretty versatile. They had a stand at the bike show and really do have an amazingly versatile range. Mine has an alfine 11. The great thing is that because they are based in Cambridge they can talk through what you want and when I had my seatpost stolen with the stoked bars, they sent me a replacement that I then paid for when I could. Brilliant customer service and every problem I've had they've had a suggestion for a solution. 
Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.

rob

Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #16 on: 16 February, 2016, 10:17:27 pm »
You are very welcome to try our Helios out. Nye is nearly big enough to stoke but not quite. I've had a 3 year old stoker and clarion has stoked so it's pretty versatile. They had a stand at the bike show and really do have an amazingly versatile range. Mine has an alfine 11. The great thing is that because they are based in Cambridge they can talk through what you want and when I had my seatpost stolen with the stoked bars, they sent me a replacement that I then paid for when I could. Brilliant customer service and every problem I've had they've had a suggestion for a solution.

I particularly liked the sporty 24" wheel sporty prototype they had on the stand - if it was the same one. Might be next year's project.

rr

Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #17 on: 16 February, 2016, 11:05:08 pm »
We have an orbit Libra, micro has stoked it since she was three, with crank shorteners.
Also been stoked by 6' men and both daughters from three to their present full grown, tall women size.
One tip, get some shin pads as if they slip off the pedals it can hurt.

Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #18 on: 17 February, 2016, 11:52:49 am »
I looked seriously at the Helios when getting my tandem and it ticked every box except one: there was no way to get a wide enough gear ratio to cope with all my local steep hills. You won't have this problem in London, or for that matter in SE England!

I eventually bought a second-hand Discovery Twin locally, with crank shorteners this fits my 6 year old but much smaller would be difficult. But the 22" bottom gear will get us (just) up most of the hills in the area.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #19 on: 17 February, 2016, 12:17:56 pm »
New from Circe at the Bike Show: Short cranks for stoker, getting round the problem of massive Q Factor experienced with crank shorteners. :thumbsup:
Getting there...

Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #20 on: 17 February, 2016, 06:57:57 pm »
Would love to try the Helios sometime, Butterfly, thank you!

I do like the idea of it lasting from now til he's proper big & thereafter :)

But it sounds like the Trailgator / Followme type affair might be worthwhile anyway (& certainly might be a better fit for Glastonbury this summer, as it avoids train problems) which gives us a bit of time to think about it. For riding 4-6 miles at a go in London I think we can get another year if needed out of the bike seat.

Slight crimp in plans also caused by L expressing great distress at the idea of losing the cargo trike. How much longer *is* a tandem, anyway? I'm guessing you can't hang them on a regular-height upright bike wall hook thingy? (The sort where you put the front wheel on the hook & the bike hangs downwards, sticking out.)

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #21 on: 17 February, 2016, 07:51:21 pm »
The Helios is 2.1m long, so a bit longer than a normal bike.  At the bottom of their FAQ www.circecycles.com/products/helios/faq/ they've got an image showing the Circe, with the front wheel removed, is the same length as a normal bike.

So you'd have to be tall to hang on a hook.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #22 on: 18 February, 2016, 01:27:08 pm »
I've never tried it, but theoretically Great Western permit tandems on some of their trains (including those that go near Glastonbury). With the short wheelbase of the Circe there shouldn't be a practical problem, but you may need to argue your case. Book ahead, anyway!

arabella

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Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #23 on: 18 February, 2016, 01:55:16 pm »
We had a Thorn childback tandem which we used with crank shorteners from about 3-4 (depending on the height of the little dear).  Originally with a kiddy seat on the back for (generally) the younger one, then later on a Hoening 'add + bike' which is a tag along BUT you get a specific rack to slot it into thus different handling to a seat-post attachment - trails from behnd the axle of the rear wheel.  I'm not sure they exist any more, though these look similar.
(as mine aree now mid&late teens this info is a bit old ...)
Childback not massively longer than a large upright, with front whee rmoved, and so has been hung from the back of a car on a rack thingy.
Mainline trains to Norwich have allowed it in the luggage van.
Any fool can admire a mountain.  It takes real discernment to appreciate the fens.

Re: Tandems for kids
« Reply #24 on: 18 February, 2016, 08:00:07 pm »
The Helios is 2.1m long, so a bit longer than a normal bike.  At the bottom of their FAQ www.circecycles.com/products/helios/faq/ they've got an image showing the Circe, with the front wheel removed, is the same length as a normal bike.

So you'd have to be tall to hang on a hook.

Hm; some of our garage hooks are taller than me (we had to stagger them up and down to make all 5 fit in the space available) so it might just about work. I shall go measure. Of course this does rely on me actually selling the fixie so there is a space free.

*starts planning trip to Cambridge to try stuff out* :D