Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Freewheeling => Racing => Topic started by: FatBloke on 18 June, 2018, 09:57:00 am

Title: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: FatBloke on 18 June, 2018, 09:57:00 am
Am ashamed to call myself a cyclist after seeing this. These twats should be identified and prosecuted!!!

http://road.cc/content/news/243742-video-horse-and-rider-struck-undertaking-cyclist-participating-triathlon#comment-1729579


Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Jurek on 18 June, 2018, 10:04:46 am
Thread already started covering this - unsurprisingly in DOTD.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: giropaul on 18 June, 2018, 02:51:54 pm
I think that it is right to have this in “ racing” . The reason is that events like this one are run outside the Cycle Racing on the Highway law - the sheer number and lack of intervals between riders would mean this.
So; what happens? I suggest that CTT timetrials and road races run within the law could suffer. The original Facebook thread is full of “ why can cyclists race on the open road when motorsport can’t?” type comments. The public see this as a bike race, when it is of course a triathlon. However, the opposition to cyclists and especially to ANY sort of cycling events is growing, fuelled by incidents such as these.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: LEE on 18 June, 2018, 03:56:08 pm
This was clearly a race.  It's a Triathlon so I assume it was a mass start race event.

The video clearly shows a large group of cyclists (presumably all head-down, draughting (some on Tri-bars), and not looking where the fuck they were going (or not caring).

It's a recipe for accidents when you have mixed ability group road-racing like this. 

I think it's wholly inappropriate to race on open public roads without suitable marshalling/signage.  Competition encourages risk-taking and I'm 100% positive that such competition led to these irresponsible manoeuvres.

On top of that...Dickheads!   We don't need any more excuses for "fucking wanker cyclists" items in the news or on Social media.

What is MORE irritating though is the amount of attention this is getting when I'll wager my house that there are 1000x more videos like this showing cars going too fast/close to horses. 

Come down to the New Forest and watch the boy racers flying past the ponies by the roadside.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: fimm on 18 June, 2018, 04:07:51 pm
For information; in (most) amateur triathlon events you are not allowed to draft and you should have 7 (or is it 10 these days?) meters between you and the rider in front unless you are overtaking; in which case you have a certain amount of time to overtake (which I can't remember).
BUT
there's a whole difference between what is supposed to happen and what does happen. However the only triathlons I have done that have been bad for drafting have been on closed roads. And I mostly race in Scotland, where there is more space.

None of this is to condone what is shown in the video. I hope One Step Beyond and British Triathlon come down hard on those involved.

One thing that does concern me is that the horse rider said they had no warning of the event being on; most races I do have "Caution Cyclists" signs everywhere.
EDIT that last sentence reads a bit too much like victim-blaming; of course the horse rider had every right to be where they were. I'm just surprised they were not aware that there was a race on.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: quixoticgeek on 18 June, 2018, 10:58:23 pm


There is very little dispute that the cyclist in question is a complete fucking moron who deserves their DSQ.

However, the BBC have reported on the subject, and taken the opportunity to generally knock cyclists:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-berkshire-44512967


'Amanda Coyne, who lives near the route of the race, said she had encountered cyclists riding "dangerously" while driving shortly before 09:00.

"I nearly had a heart attack as I nearly got hit by a car which had been forced to overtake cyclists who were riding four-abreast," she said.'

No Amanda. Noone is forced to over take. Whether cycling, driving, walking. Overtaking is a choice. it is the choice where to do it and when. If a motorist decides to over take 4 cyclists abreast, in such a way that it is effecting a nearby pedestrian, then it is not appropriate to over take. The motorist is in the wrong (the cyclists too for being more than 4 abreast, but the motorist is more in the wrong).

This is one of my many road user pet hates. People who think that it is there obligation to over take a slower cyclist, regardless of if it is safe to do so. Be it on a blind bend, over crest of a hill, crossing a solid white line, etc... If it isn't safe to move completely into the opposite lane to overtake, then it is not safe to overtake. It's that simple.

This is why road user education is needed. As mentioned in other rants.

J

Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Jasmine on 19 June, 2018, 09:05:36 am

None of this is to condone what is shown in the video. I hope One Step Beyond and British Triathlon come down hard on those involved.

One thing that does concern me is that the horse rider said they had no warning of the event being on; most races I do have "Caution Cyclists" signs everywhere.
EDIT that last sentence reads a bit too much like victim-blaming; of course the horse rider had every right to be where they were. I'm just surprised they were not aware that there was a race on.


To be honest, I think the organiser are being a being slopey shouldered in their response.  If we take the horse rider's statement (that she was unaware of the event and hadn't passed any signs) at face value, then the organiser has a lot to answer for.  The potential presence of horse riders should have been highlighted in any risk assessment (presumably it is a rural area, and there are some livery stables nearby). This should then have resulted in the organiser contacting livery yards before the race and explicitly signing up places where people are likely to enter the road in question.  There shouldn't be the situation where a race with large numbers of riders should be a surprise to other road users.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Ian H on 19 June, 2018, 09:10:43 am
It was a triathlon, not a cycling event.  No cycling organisations involved.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: fimm on 19 June, 2018, 09:21:42 am
It was a triathlon, not a cycling event.  No cycling organisations involved.
Jasmine says "Race organisers" which is correct. Someone organised the triathlon, and should have risk assessed the swim, the bike, and the run.

(I've ben asking myself whether I would behave differently if I came across a horse while I was racing, as opposed to what I do when I'm out for a ride, which is slow right down and get permssion to pass. Would I be a bit less cautious/courteous in a triathlon? Probably. I'd still keep my distance from a horse!)
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Frank9755 on 19 June, 2018, 12:08:58 pm
I was vaguely interested in the legal basis on which triathlons operate on UK roads, but I'd need to register for an account on the British Triathlon site to get that info, and I'm not that interested / have work to do.  I'd assume it is the same as for time trials, but would be interested if it was different. 

The British Triathlon site says this about risk assessments:
"All permitted events listed on the British Triathlon and Home Nation Associations websites have committed to carrying out safety assessments of their events, which they are required to submit to British Triathlon along with proof that the event is covered by adequate insurance."
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: citoyen on 19 June, 2018, 12:39:04 pm
It was a triathlon, not a cycling event.  No cycling organisations involved.

True, though I understand the organisers behind this farce are Human Race, who do organise a number of large cycling events, including the Tour de Yorkshire sportive and the Dragon Ride.

They really ought to know better.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: fimm on 19 June, 2018, 02:01:13 pm
I was vaguely interested in the legal basis on which triathlons operate on UK roads, but I'd need to register for an account on the British Triathlon site to get that info, and I'm not that interested / have work to do.  I'd assume it is the same as for time trials, but would be interested if it was different. 

I probably have an account so I could have a look if you can explain what I'm looking for.
I think you are probably right about it being like a time trial because the bike leg of a tri is a time trial, and, although you can take part in a tri on any roadworthy bike, people who take it seriously tend to ride TT bikes if they can afford one.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: alexb on 19 June, 2018, 03:07:32 pm
Not to try to legitimise things, but this looks like a clump of cyclists came up behind the horse without seeing it and then split to pass either side of it.
This happens all the time in organised races around street furniture, but the idea that they failed to observe a horse is ridiculous.

The whole thing just makes me angry as it's just one more thing for my non-cycling friends to point out to me and one more thing (like red-light jumping, pavement riding and not stopping at zebra crossings) where I can only agree that it's shitty behaviour.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: AK on 19 June, 2018, 03:16:16 pm
Like Fimm said earlier, triathlons are usually either draft legal, i.e. you can ride in a group or non-draft legal. Pretty certain this event was the latter, so all competitors should be a minimum distance from each over, usually a 7m by 3m box, and the onus is on the rider being overtaken to drop back out of the draft zone.

Even so, this is just awful riding. Racing and completely oblivious to their surroundings. I've done a few Human race Triathlons and off-road runs in the past and their organisation is excellent; I can't imagine that there was a lack of signage. I really hope that  they find those responsible and throw the book at them.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: MattH on 19 June, 2018, 09:06:36 pm

(I've ben asking myself whether I would behave differently if I came across a horse while I was racing, as opposed to what I do when I'm out for a ride, which is slow right down and get permssion to pass. Would I be a bit less cautious/courteous in a triathlon? Probably. I'd still keep my distance from a horse!)

We had that situation a couple of weekends ago on a BC road race. The lead moto gave us a warning over the radio that there were a couple of horses on the road. He went and had a chat with the riders to let them know that the race was coming up behind them. Normally there'll be enough time for them to find somewhere safe to wait, but on this occasion there wasn't as it was a country lane with high banks. They tried to get to a turn off, but the race was bearing down on them and one of the horses was skittish so quite slow. I was second moto (the first had gone ahead by that point), and sent a warning back to the lead cars over the radio. I maintained a safe buffer distance behind the horses, the lead cars behind me slowed down the whole race to walking pace until the horses were safely clear (and I thanked the horse riders).

Basically, the racers didn't get an option as to what to do, the officials sorted it and ensured everyone was safe.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: giropaul on 20 June, 2018, 06:13:24 am

(I've ben asking myself whether I would behave differently if I came across a horse while I was racing, as opposed to what I do when I'm out for a ride, which is slow right down and get permssion to pass. Would I be a bit less cautious/courteous in a triathlon? Probably. I'd still keep my distance from a horse!)

We had that situation a couple of weekends ago on a BC road race. The lead moto gave us a warning over the radio that there were a couple of horses on the road. He went and had a chat with the riders to let them know that the race was coming up behind them. Normally there'll be enough time for them to find somewhere safe to wait, but on this occasion there wasn't as it was a country lane with high banks. They tried to get to a turn off, but the race was bearing down on them and one of the horses was skittish so quite slow. I was second moto (the first had gone ahead by that point), and sent a warning back to the lead cars over the radio. I maintained a safe buffer distance behind the horses, the lead cars behind me slowed down the whole race to walking pace until the horses were safely clear (and I thanked the horse riders).

Basically, the racers didn't get an option as to what to do, the officials sorted it and ensured everyone was safe.

Excellent, that’s how a properly ( and legal) race is run. Unfortunately there’s no viral Facebook thread about this.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Frank9755 on 20 June, 2018, 09:21:38 am
Great to know how these things are done in an actual cycle race, Matt.

The organisers can't solely blame the riders for this as, assuming they are operating on the same legal basis as a time trial, they have allowed a bunch race to develop.  That shows a failure on their part either from not seeding their field correctly, not having wide enough intervals between starters or picking a course with a feature, such as a hill, which made bunching likely. 

If they are operating on the same legal basis as a road race then, as Matt's story illustrates, they have failed in too many areas to list.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: quixoticgeek on 20 June, 2018, 09:23:19 am
Great to know how these things are done in an actual cycle race, Matt.

The organisers can't solely blame the riders for this as, assuming they are operating on the same legal basis as a time trial, they have allowed a bunch race to develop.  That shows a failure on their part either from not seeding their field correctly, not having wide enough intervals between starters or picking a course with a feature, such as a hill, which made bunching likely. 

If they are operating on the same legal basis as a road race then, as Matt's story illustrates, they have failed in too many areas to list.

Around this screw up there has been a wider discussion on how we as cyclists can be better road users around horses.

Emily Chappell started a really interesting discussion about this on twitter, I can recommend digging out the thread and having a read. Both cyclists and horse riders have replied.

J
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: citoyen on 20 June, 2018, 09:24:17 am
Excellent, that’s how a properly ( and legal) race is run. Unfortunately there’s no viral Facebook thread about this.

I was thinking exactly the same. It's a shame you only hear about cycling events in the news when it's because of locals complaining about disruption or incidents of fuckwittery from participants. And yet there are many, many cycling events taking place all the time that pass totally under the radar.

Last summer, I was supposed to be driving the commissaire on a local race, but it was cancelled half an hour before the scheduled start time due to unforeseen problems on the route. It was a regional championship and the riders were all hugely disappointed, as you'd expect, but it was entirely the right decision.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: fimm on 20 June, 2018, 10:07:39 am

The organisers can't solely blame the riders for this as, assuming they are operating on the same legal basis as a time trial, they have allowed a bunch race to develop.  That shows a failure on their part either from not seeding their field correctly, not having wide enough intervals between starters or picking a course with a feature, such as a hill, which made bunching likely. 


Err, it is a triathlon. It will have gone off in waves, but a number of people will all have enetered the water together. Some of them will swim faster than others, so that will spread them out to some extent, but some of the slowers swimmers will be faster cyclists and vice versa, so there will be a lot of swapping of positions. It is a bit different to the draft-legal racing you see on TV.

There will (I assume) have been motor bike marshalls on the course but clearly there wasn't one in the right place at the right time to warn of the horse. There will be cyclists spread over quite a wide amount of road (up to 20km for a one lap Sprint) - probably more so than in Matt's cycle race.

Can anyone explain why the horse is on the right hand side of the road?
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: cygnet on 20 June, 2018, 10:21:31 am
Can anyone explain why the horse is on the right hand side of the road?

 ???
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: telstarbox on 20 June, 2018, 10:22:11 am
The horse is in "primary" position maybe, but still definitely left of the centre line.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Goldcrank on 20 June, 2018, 10:47:01 am
Because some twonk on a bike is undertaking it?
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: matthew on 20 June, 2018, 11:14:40 am
I have distinct memories of a family fun ride that my mum used to organise when she was parish clerk, it was only a 5 mile bimble round the country lanes to be ridden at your own pace. Various councilors would be marshaling key junctions, my father would ride TEC with an extended tool kit and I was tasked with riding the front to wake the marshals at each junction and then start a second lap to collect the route marking signs in.

One year I remember a 13/14 year old age cat racer on the ride whose father was with a younger sibling, I was 20 or 21 but a tourer. This kid was pushing me to ride fast to stay with him as he knew the route. About 2/3rd of the way round I slowed because I had a horse ahead and an oncoming car, the lad went passed my left and then through the gap between the horse and the car. Effectively without crossing the white lines. I had to apologise to the rider and never caught the kid. Karma struck later as the route had changed from the previous year and the marshal for the right turn needed alerting from his car so the kid went the wrong way before I could stop him.

Back at the finish the father turned up as about the 10th rider in and I explained why his son wasn't there before setting off for my second lap. I believe the son got a roasting and an education on passing horses.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: DaveReading on 20 June, 2018, 12:28:04 pm
Emily Chappell started a really interesting discussion about this on twitter, I can recommend digging out the thread and having a read. Both cyclists and horse riders have replied.

https://twitter.com/emilychappell/status/1008607479033409536
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 20 June, 2018, 12:49:48 pm
Emily Chappell started a really interesting discussion about this on twitter, I can recommend digging out the thread and having a read. Both cyclists and horse riders have replied.

https://twitter.com/emilychappell/status/1008607479033409536
All pretty much common sense, though the advice to avoid freewheeling was new to me. But then I don't particularly like clicky hubs anyway!
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Kim on 20 June, 2018, 01:07:08 pm
All pretty much common sense, though the advice to avoid freewheeling was new to me. But then I don't particularly like clicky hubs anyway!

Yeah, it hadn't occurred to me either, but I don't have anything noisier than a Shimano XT.  I find freewheeling positively helpful when the horse is wary of a recumbent.  The pedalling motion at the front seems to be second only to flags (which I don't use) for consistently upsetting horses.

Apart from the comedy kickstand incident[1] a few years ago, I've had very little trouble passing horses on a DF bike.  They've generally seen one before[2].


[1] I was taking a sandwich break at a convenient bench on a grass triangle.  The bike was on its stand at the side of the tarmac road.  A horse appeared and absolutely refused to go any closer until I'd got up and wheeled the bike a bit to demonstrate what it was.  The horse rider found this hilarious.
[2] There's a horse that lives in a field I ride past regularly on a recumbent which recognises me and comes up to the fence to watch.  It's just a matter of what they're used to.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: FatBloke on 20 June, 2018, 01:16:28 pm
Can anyone explain why the horse is on the right hand side of the road?

Because you can't tell your left from your right?   ??? ???
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 20 June, 2018, 02:46:16 pm

Apart from the comedy kickstand incident[1] a few years ago, I've had very little trouble passing horses on a DF bike.  They've generally seen one before[2].


[1] I was taking a sandwich break at a convenient bench on a grass triangle.  The bike was on its stand at the side of the tarmac road.  A horse appeared and absolutely refused to go any closer until I'd got up and wheeled the bike a bit to demonstrate what it was.  The horse rider found this hilarious.
[2] There's a horse that lives in a field I ride past regularly on a recumbent which recognises me and comes up to the fence to watch.  It's just a matter of what they're used to.

At the top of a short, steep hill just off the Yate spur of the Bristol-Bath path is a stable. Once when I was spinning rapidly labouring up this hill, right at the top I saw a horse ahead of me. The road here is very narrow. Okay, I thought, I'll take it easy, the horse is bound to go into the stables. Which they started to do, then stopped dead. Must have seen me out of the corner of its eye and been scared, I thought, so stopped and spoke to the rider. "It's not you," said the rider, "there are some new hay bales in the stable yard that weren't there when we left, so she won't go in."
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Kim on 20 June, 2018, 02:49:07 pm
Being scared of hay may be a new peak of horse neuroticism...
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: gonzo on 20 June, 2018, 02:53:04 pm
At the top of a short, steep hill just off the Yate spur of the Bristol-Bath path is a stable. Once when I was spinning rapidly labouring up this hill, right at the top I saw a horse ahead of me. The road here is very narrow. Okay, I thought, I'll take it easy, the horse is bound to go into the stables. Which they started to do, then stopped dead. Must have seen me out of the corner of its eye and been scared, I thought, so stopped and spoke to the rider. "It's not you," said the rider, "there are some new hay bales in the stable yard that weren't there when we left, so she won't go in."

I'm lead to believe this unpredictability is all part of the charm of riding a horse!
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Cudzoziemiec on 20 June, 2018, 02:55:12 pm
TBF to the horse, I think the bales were still wrapped in plastic so perhaps not recognizably nice, tasty, nutritious, good-to-sleep-in hay. Though you'd assume a horse would have seen similar bales before.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: citoyen on 20 June, 2018, 04:38:30 pm
I'm lead to believe this unpredictability is all part of the charm of riding a horse!

Yes, I find juggling live chainsaws has a similar kind of charm.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: gonzo on 20 June, 2018, 04:43:15 pm
Quote from: citoyen
Yes, I find juggling live chainsaws has a similar kind of charm.

 ;D
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: DuncanM on 20 June, 2018, 04:48:37 pm
What's more predictable, a horse or a triathlete on a bike? :P
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Phil W on 20 June, 2018, 04:59:15 pm
This is what happens when motorists take part in triathlons.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: quixoticgeek on 20 June, 2018, 05:28:59 pm
What's more predictable, a horse or a triathlete on a bike? :P

Exactly how many horses ride bikes?

BTW, this statement is reportedly by the horse rider:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Df_Ja9BW4AER1iP.jpg:large)

J
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: LEE on 20 June, 2018, 06:19:41 pm

To be honest, I think the organiser are being a being slopey shouldered in their response.  If we take the horse rider's statement (that she was unaware of the event and hadn't passed any signs) at face value, then the organiser has a lot to answer for. 

Signs or no signs, horse rider aware or unaware, I only see irresponsible cycling behaviour.  How are signs and awareness going to help someone who needs to ride down that road at that particular moment?

It could have been a child riding a bike, someone out walking, a broken down car ..etc.  All would have involved in a collision because if you can't see a horse then you can't see anything.

Putting signs out doesn't automatically shift liability away from people racing on public roads.  Rules of the road still apply presumably. 

"Cycling Event" signs cover a lot of things.  Personally I don't interpret them as "Triathletes going flat out but not looking where they are going".

What I'm trying to say is, throw your TT bars away, get a saddlebag, some mudguards, make some sandwiches to put in you new saddlebag, swap your silly vest for a proper jersey (wool preferably) and do an Audax instead.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: mattc on 20 June, 2018, 06:54:14 pm
The "Cycling Event" warning signs are not intended to mitigate the danger FROM the riders!

I think Jasmine's right in that it's a big oversight to not consider horse-riders - but at the same time, I think you can see how that happened. I can't remember riding a TT and meeting a horse; so if I did a Risk-Assesment of a new course it's quite possible that I would totally ignore the issue of horses, and fail to notice any stables/liveries nearby. Verdict: very unfortunate.

Anyway, I could write the predictable anti-triathelope stuff, but let's move on:

 the best thing here is that response from the rider  :thumbsup:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Df_Ja9BW4AER1iP.jpg
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: citoyen on 20 June, 2018, 07:06:33 pm
I can't remember riding a TT and meeting a horse

You wouldn't meet a horse on either of my local TT routes - one is on a dual carriageway, the other on a closed cycle track.

I did the Sevenoaks triathlon once, which uses the roads around Knole Park. I have encountered horses around there on other rides but fortunately none on that event. If I had, though, I like to think I would have behaved the same as if I'd been on any other ride - ie slowed the fuck down and given them as wide a berth as possible. The Sevenoaks tri is a popular and well-organised event, and I would imagine the organisers are reasonably clued up about the possibility of horses on the route. It would be a shame to tar all triathlons and triathletes with the same brush.

Tbh, my general principle on how to behave around horses is based largely on self-preservation - I don't want one of them massive feckers kicking me, thank you very much. I'd also hate to be responsible for one unseating its rider.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Kim on 20 June, 2018, 07:09:18 pm
I'm not entirely sure what "Cycling Event" signs are actually supposed to achieve.

I suppose as a motorist they'd mostly tell me that there's little point in trying to overtake this little group of MAMILs, as there's only going to be another cluster of them round the corner.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: mattc on 20 June, 2018, 07:22:17 pm
I'm not entirely sure what "Cycling Event" signs are actually supposed to achieve.

I suppose as a motorist they'd mostly tell me that there's little point in trying to overtake this little group of MAMILs, as there's only going to be another cluster of them round the corner.
On CTT events they're mainly used at junctions where the riders have priority - thus IN THEORY reducing SMIDSYs. It is a fact that more RTAs occur at junctions than the number of hit-from-behind incidents. HOWEVER no statistics show a reduction in accidents from putting these signs out  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Ben T on 20 June, 2018, 08:27:42 pm
It's said that people turn into knobheads when they get into cars, well there's something about triathlons that turns people into cocks as well.
I was once going to the gym, and it happened to be also being used for  the changeover part from running to cycling, and while going across the car park one of them just yelled at me to "GET OUT THE WAY!!!"
As if I should somehow understand why his leisure pursuit is infinitely more important than mine.
I also disagree with the closing of roads that goes on for them. It's like, we're going to disrupt your day because our hobby is more important than yours and we want the road all to ourselves.
Sod off. Cocks, the lot of 'em.

This is one rare occasion when I actually side with the horse rider and that's saying something because I am not exactly the world's biggest horse fan.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Jasmine on 20 June, 2018, 08:44:33 pm
I'm not entirely sure what "Cycling Event" signs are actually supposed to achieve.

I suppose as a motorist they'd mostly tell me that there's little point in trying to overtake this little group of MAMILs, as there's only going to be another cluster of them round the corner.
On CTT events they're mainly used at junctions where the riders have priority - thus IN THEORY reducing SMIDSYs. It is a fact that more RTAs occur at junctions than the number of hit-from-behind incidents. HOWEVER no statistics show a reduction in accidents from putting these signs out  :facepalm:


It largely depends on what sort of event it is.  On a mass start cycling event, the signs are positioned to warn oncoming traffic and traffic coming out of junctions. In these events, the ability to overtake the group of riders (who are largely unlikely to be MAMILS) will be severely restricted by the race convoy vehicles. They are also used at junctions where marshals will be stopping traffic to allow to race to proceed where they wouldn't normally have priority. In TTs they are primarily used at junctions, and in triathlon they are used randomly.

In the case of horse riders, when approaching a junction with a big 'caution cyclists, race in progress' sign on it, most horse riders will decide that they may want to take a slightly different, more enjoyable route that day, because by and large, their rides are not determined by needing to go from A to B. In this case, the rider had made a point that she hadn't known about the event, and hadn't seen any signs to indicate she was on the race route.  Presumably if she had known, she would have gone somewhere else, or gone at a different time.

Also, not putting out the signs is indicative of either not doing a full risk assessment, or not complying with one.  Whilst many people wouldn't think about livery stables, the risk assessors for a British Cycling event certainly do.  In higher risk locations, organisers are instructed to visit livery stables to notify them. Race briefings will include rider behaviour and not being a dick.  Whilst the specific actions on the video clip are individual irresponsible behaviour, race organisers and governing bodies have a role to play in safety of all road users during their events.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Greenbank on 20 June, 2018, 08:53:03 pm
Can anyone explain why the horse is on the right hand side of the road?

Because whatever you're using to play the video is playing it flipped horizontally.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Kim on 20 June, 2018, 08:57:27 pm
I was under the impression that horseists often ride routes that are primarily on bridleways and join them up with roads where needed, much in the way that mountain bikers might.  Seems entirely possible for them to emerge from a bridleway onto a road between junctions and therefore not encounter a sign, unless the organisers were actively thinking horse.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: LEE on 20 June, 2018, 09:00:20 pm
Can anyone explain why the horse is on the right hand side of the road?

Because whatever you're using to play the video is playing it flipped horizontally.

Didn't it flip the cyclists horizontally?
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: David Martin on 20 June, 2018, 10:50:46 pm

(I've ben asking myself whether I would behave differently if I came across a horse while I was racing, as opposed to what I do when I'm out for a ride, which is slow right down and get permssion to pass. Would I be a bit less cautious/courteous in a triathlon? Probably. I'd still keep my distance from a horse!)

We had that situation a couple of weekends ago on a BC road race. The lead moto gave us a warning over the radio that there were a couple of horses on the road. He went and had a chat with the riders to let them know that the race was coming up behind them. Normally there'll be enough time for them to find somewhere safe to wait, but on this occasion there wasn't as it was a country lane with high banks. They tried to get to a turn off, but the race was bearing down on them and one of the horses was skittish so quite slow. I was second moto (the first had gone ahead by that point), and sent a warning back to the lead cars over the radio. I maintained a safe buffer distance behind the horses, the lead cars behind me slowed down the whole race to walking pace until the horses were safely clear (and I thanked the horse riders).

Basically, the racers didn't get an option as to what to do, the officials sorted it and ensured everyone was safe.


I was lead comm for a local race and we had a similar thing - break up the road and some horses ahead. We were fully prepared to neutralise the race until the horses were clear. I'd probably take the time gap and give the break the time back after the delay, but it is an amateur race, on open roads and it is what can happen so you just suck it up and do the right thing.

Fortunately the horses were clear before we needed to do anything. Having NEG is a godsend in these situations.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: fimm on 21 June, 2018, 12:27:04 pm
Can anyone explain why the horse is on the right hand side of the road?
I have no idea what I was thinking when I asked this.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: fd3 on 21 June, 2018, 11:26:29 pm
The motorist is in the wrong (the cyclists too for being more than 4 abreast, but the motorist is more in the wrong).
The HC says you shouldn't ride more than two abreast on narrow roads (IIRC, it's not like I check it on a regular basis).  Not sure if that is a narrow road or what classifies as a narrow road.  Also can't remember if the wording is "must" or "should".
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: DaveReading on 22 June, 2018, 12:09:54 am
The HC says you shouldn't ride more than two abreast on narrow roads (IIRC, it's not like I check it on a regular basis).  Not sure if that is a narrow road or what classifies as a narrow road.  Also can't remember if the wording is "must" or "should".

"Must" in the HC normally means the provision is backed by a law.  There is no law preventing riding more than two abreast.
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: Frank9755 on 22 June, 2018, 02:24:39 am
It is 'should'.
For context, these are other'shoulds':

   You should wear

    a cycle helmet which conforms to current regulations, is the correct size and securely fastened
    appropriate clothes for cycling. Avoid clothes which may get tangled in the chain, or in a wheel or may obscure your lights
    light-coloured or fluorescent clothing which helps other road users to see you in daylight and poor light
    reflective clothing and/or accessories (belt, arm or ankle bands) in the dark.

Not riding on pavement is a 'must'
 
http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/rules-for-cyclists.html (http://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/rules-for-cyclists.html)
Title: Re: Windsor Triathlon - fecking knobends!!!!
Post by: David Martin on 23 June, 2018, 07:32:44 pm
A narrow road was typically one where a car could not pass you if you were riding two abreast, so a single track with passing spaces would be a narrow road. If there is a dividing white line one would not consider it a narrow road in this context. The reasoning then about singling out around corners makes sense as there would not be space for a car coming the other way to pass you if you were two abreast.
This seems to have been reinterpreted int eh minds of motorists to think that narrow means they have to cross the white line to pass.