Yet Another Cycling Forum
Off Topic => The Pub => Topic started by: hubner on 14 June, 2018, 09:53:16 pm
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I've been to at least 3 Sainsburys where there is a camera and screen facing you at the self service check out.
If anyone objects to this invasion of privacy, my advice is to turn the camera and screen sideways as it's mounted on a pole.
If enough people do this, Sainsbury might get the message.
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Presumably this is an attempt to reduce theft? They might do better by switching out their machines; even by the low low standards of self checkouts, the Sainsbury's ones I've used have been spectacularly crap; laggy interfaces, crashes, the works.
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I actually prefer the self-service checkouts and find the Sainsbury's ones work particularly well. Can't remember the last time I had an issue with scanning, weighing, etc (unlike LIDL!)
Before their installation I would usually have to queue, sometimes for several minutes. Now I rarely have to wait more than a few seconds , and that is only at peak times.
Presumably the cameras have been brought in because some people can't resist the temptation to fiddle the system, which is really just shoplifting by another name.
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I can't help thinking we should all be against replacing actual human jobs by the customer having to do it themselves. If everyone queue'd for the actual human, shops would soon abandon this stuff.
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I can't help thinking we should all be against replacing actual human jobs by the customer having to do it themselves. If everyone queue'd for the actual human, shops would soon abandon this stuff.
Counter argument is that people shouldn't have to do menial jobs that are best handled by a machine to earn a living. There's more than enough of that sort of thing already.
Personally, I find them occasionally convenient[1], and know that they're a major accessibility boon for some people (and an accessiblity nightmare for others). Most of the time (especially when you have big load with multiple identical items), a human operator is better. I don't think we're going to see anything but a mixture of the two for the foreseeable future.
I note that the Co-op in Watlington had acquired some when I was camping there at the weekend. As there was a long queue for the checkouts, my bike with full touring load was secured with a crappy cable lock outside and I only had a couple of items, I used one. Another customer hissed "Don't come back!" to me as she walked past. I assume I must have broken some sort of unpublished boycott[2] or something. :-\
[1] Thanks to whoever it was on here that suggested them as a way to get rid of accumulated small change.
[2] Which seems unlikely to be effective, as given the proximity of the campsite and the Ridgeway, a fair proportion of the customers must be non-locals and therefore unaware.
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I've been to at least 3 Sainsburys where there is a camera and screen facing you at the self service check out.
If anyone objects to this invasion of privacy, my advice is to turn the camera and screen sideways as it's mounted on a pole.
I'm curious why you think this is so egregious an invasion of privacy, when you're on camera virtually everywhere in any store anyway. At least with these ones you can see what the camera is picking up. (And yes, there were protests when they first came in because, depending on angle, they could pick up the PIN entry pad on the card reader, but there's a black box over that area on all the ones I've seen lately.)
Presumably the cameras have been brought in because some people can't resist the temptation to fiddle the system, which is really just shoplifting by another nametheft.
I think there's a fair bit of research that shows cameras are a bit of a deterrent, but it's seeing yourself on screen that *really* puts thieves off. Hence (at least in our local store) visible screens in the booze aisle and near other high value/easily concealable/easily resellable items.
I can't help thinking we should all be against replacing actual human jobs by the customer having to do it themselves. If everyone queue'd for the actual human, shops would soon abandon this stuff.
I agree to a great extent with your first sentence - it's yet another way companies are finding to externalise their costs, though checkout operation is i) tedious, ii) highly measured, and iii) pretty crap ergonomically, so I'm not sure we should have a great campaign to save those jobs in particular. But staff costs are an obvious thing for retailers to try and cut, and as a nation we seem to be so bloody obsessed with the cost of food to the exclusion of almost any consideration of quality, or of service, that I can't see self-checkouts disappearing any time soon - one assistant supervising six or eight or two dozen is a *lot* cheaper than having that number of tills open. (Plus, of course, some people actually prefer them, either because it's a shorter wait, or because you don't actually have to interact with another person when you use them.)
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I helped fund myself through 6th form by working 45 hours a week on a Tesco checkout. A lot of the checkout department staff badly needed that job to feed their families. Not sure where they would be now without that option?
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I helped fund myself through 6th form by working 45 hours a week on a Tesco checkout. A lot of the checkout department staff badly needed that job to feed their families. Not sure where they would be now without that option?
That's still true. (And given the rise in housing (and other) costs and the decline in social housing, probably more than ever.) I wasn't at all suggesting there should be a campaign to get rid of them.
(But rants about tax credits subsidising big corporates, and talk about universal incomes, is probably better taken off to POBI ...)
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I helped fund myself through 6th form by working 45 hours a week on a Tesco checkout. A lot of the checkout department staff badly needed that job to feed their families. Not sure where they would be now without that option?
Sure, but where do you draw the line?
Vacuum cleaners?
Sewing machines?
Strowger exchanges?
Combine harvesters?
Microprocessors?
Technology displacing menial jobs is nothing new, and it's only bad in the short term. Ludditism[1] isn't going to change the problems of an unequal society.
[1] In the anti-technoloy sense the term is generally used. The 19th century textile workers who protested against exploitative business practices would probably agree with me.
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I do my 'big' shopping online, and then mostly buy stuff in between from little supermarkets, with some fairly regular routines. Wednesday lunchtime and Thursday first thing, for example, my commute routes take me past a sainsbo's local and I nip in to buy doughnuts/caramel crispy bites/cookies with no silly fruity bits/milk/coffee/dried fruit for the weirdo who doesn't eat cake or biscuits on my way to site. Milk tends to come from the M&S audax control over the road. Monday evening during the SmallestCub's karate, before he started taking himself there and back, I often used to nip in to the co-op. I never do self checkout if I can possibly avoid it. I like the staff in all the shops I regularly visit, and it brings a smile to my day to see the familiar faces.
I think I probably just like people more than I like tech.
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I'm curious why you think this is so egregious an invasion of privacy, when you're on camera virtually everywhere in any store anyway. At least with these ones you can see what the camera is picking up. (And yes, there were protests when they first came in because, depending on angle, they could pick up the PIN entry pad on the card reader, but there's a black box over that area on all the ones I've seen lately.)
I think there's a fair bit of research that shows cameras are a bit of a deterrent, but it's seeing yourself on screen that *really* puts thieves off. Hence (at least in our local store) visible screens in the booze aisle and near other high value/easily concealable/easily resellable items.
Back on topic, my objection is to how close the camera is to you and also that the live screen is on "public" view. With the normal cctv, the cameras are pretty far away and possibly fairly high up and there is no close-up of your face, would you like it if there was a face facing close up camera that followed you everywhere in the store? And the normal cctv footage is only seen by the cctv operator or not at all, similarly I object to the cctv screens on buses as well.
I know cash machines has cctvs which does record you close up but the footage is not on public view.
I just do not want to see myself on a public screen.
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Back on topic, ....
Which part of the above isn't on topic? ???
You have a choice. If you don't like the self-serve checkouts then don't use them. In every store I've seen there are always manned tills if you are prepared to queue or have trolleys/large volumes of shopping.
I will be using the self-serve tills as they suit my needs and I accepted long ago that, where I live, I am on camera as soon as I step out of my door and probably for my entire day.
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Humans add very little to processing your selections at the till (my mother was a till jockey at Morrisons for many years) and it makes me a bit sad that we feel we need to protect those sorts of jobs for no better reason than we can't think of anything better for people to do.
Anyway, I have emails to answer.
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As a deaf person with the social skills of a badly brought up bear I think that self checkouts are one of the be best uses of technology in supermarkets coming second only to online grocery shopping.
How we employ that percentage of the population who cannot or do not want to take on more complex tasks is a different discussion with lots of philosophical musings.
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A disadvantage of the auto tills is that you can't play "how much do you think this lot will cost?" with the cashier. Hours of fun for all the family.
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I can't help thinking we should all be against replacing actual human jobs by the customer having to do it themselves. If everyone queue'd for the actual human, shops would soon abandon this stuff.
Counter argument is that people shouldn't have to do menial jobs that are best handled by a machine to earn a living. There's more than enough of that sort of thing already.
Both excellent arguments. The unfortunate reality is that people displaced form menial till jobs are probably first sent to menial shelf-loading jobs, then when those are automated, all unemployed. By some reckonings, middle-management type jobs are now at most risk of automation, so we're all heading for a life of unmitigated leisure.
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As for the cameras referred to by the OP; can't say – haven't seen them, none in branches near me. If your face is up on a big screen (I presume this is one screen per till, otherwise what would be the point?) yes, that does seem discomfitting, though objectively, your face is on view anyway. I wonder if they will start banning yashmaks etc at these tills? That could be a shame, as I imagine yashmak-wearers might be just the sort of person who might prefer to interact with a machine than an unknown human, not to mention feeding the anti-human-of-the-wrong-type feeling. Someone will have to try wearing a combination of niqab, balaclava, crash helmet and hoody, just for a laff.
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I'm curious why you think this is so egregious an invasion of privacy, when you're on camera virtually everywhere in any store anyway. At least with these ones you can see what the camera is picking up. (And yes, there were protests when they first came in because, depending on angle, they could pick up the PIN entry pad on the card reader, but there's a black box over that area on all the ones I've seen lately.)
I think there's a fair bit of research that shows cameras are a bit of a deterrent, but it's seeing yourself on screen that *really* puts thieves off. Hence (at least in our local store) visible screens in the booze aisle and near other high value/easily concealable/easily resellable items.
Back on topic, my objection is to how close the camera is to you and also that the live screen is on "public" view. With the normal cctv, the cameras are pretty far away and possibly fairly high up and there is no close-up of your face, would you like it if there was a face facing close up camera that followed you everywhere in the store?
Fair point, it would be a touch disconcerting if someone with a SteadiCam was backing away from me every time I wandered round the supermarket. But this is a single camera per checkout, with a fixed location. I don't find it particularly intrusive - in fact, although I've seen the screens, I've not even noticed the camera position, though presumably it's either integrated with the screen or on the same mounting pole.
And the normal cctv footage is only seen by the cctv operator or not at all, similarly I object to the cctv screens on buses as well.
I know cash machines has cctvs which does record you close up but the footage is not on public view.
I just do not want to see myself on a public screen.
Well, er, don't look at yourself then. And at least the ones by the self checkouts are angled so the person who gets the best view of what's being displayed is the person using that checkout - I don't make a habit of looking at what activities can be seen on other screens.
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Back on topic, ....
Which part of the above isn't on topic? ???
You have a choice. If you don't like the self-serve checkouts then don't use them. In every store I've seen there are always manned tills if you are prepared to queue or have trolleys/large volumes of shopping.
I will be using the self-serve tills as they suit my needs and I accepted long ago that, where I live, I am on camera as soon as I step out of my door and probably for my entire day.
I started this thread on the topic of the checkout camera. I actually prefer the self check out; they are much quicker and you don't need to interact with another person.
Going by the replies so far, I suppose there isn't any objection to the cameras, or they haven't used a check out with the camera.
On the topic of the self checkout in general, why do you need to scan item item individually anyway? You should be able to put your basket on the machine and it scans all the items in one go, like the machines at the library.
As for the question of automation of menial jobs, that of course relates to how society is run; by and for the benefit of ordinary people or by and for the rich and powerful.
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On the topic of the self checkout in general, why do you need to scan item item individually anyway? You should be able to put your basket on the machine and it scans all the items in one go, like the machines at the library.
As for the question of automation of menial jobs, that of course relates to how society is run; by and for the benefit of ordinary people or by and for the rich and powerful.
Because bar codes are an established technology in retail and rfid is not, I suppose.
But linking the two together, it does seem that librarians welcomed the introduction of selfscan machines in libraries as it allows them to get on with the real work of librarianship as opposed to datestamping tickets. Perhaps the existence of that work is a key difference between libraries and supermarkets!
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I actually prefer the self check out; they are much quicker and you don't need to interact with another person.
I can't see why not having to interact with another person is an advantage.
On the topic of the self checkout in general, why do you need to scan item item individually anyway? You should be able to put your basket on the machine and it scans all the items in one go, like the machines at the library.
Because checkout machines aren't psychic. Library books can have RFID tags (little radio readable tags) stuck in them for they checkout to read, doing the same for food would be a ogistical nightmare plus it would result in huge amounts of RFID tags dumped in the rubbish. We are trying to reduce waste not create more.
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I started this thread on the topic of the checkout camera.
The cameras are a corollary of self-checkouts because people thieve. Can't really discuss one without the other. I presume they are unmanned and largely a deterrent.
LIDL seem to have a different approach. Every 10th item or so triggers an alert (for no obvious reason whatever) so you have to call an assistant who casts a cursory glance at the shelf before clicking it through. I'm pretty sure that's just another scrote deterrent. Personally I prefer the cameras!
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I can't help thinking we should all be against replacing actual human jobs by the customer having to do it themselves. If everyone queue'd for the actual human, shops would soon abandon this stuff.
Counter argument is that people shouldn't have to do menial jobs that are best handled by a machine to earn a living. There's more than enough of that sort of thing already.
Both excellent arguments. The unfortunate reality is that people displaced form menial till jobs are probably first sent to menial shelf-loading jobs, then when those are automated, all unemployed. By some reckonings, middle-management type jobs are now at most risk of automation, so we're all heading for a life of unmitigated leisure.
Well, we're the ones currently being targeted by the consultants.
As an amateur futurologist I do wonder where the tipping point is with regard to so many jobs having been automated that sufficient people will not have funds to buy the products or services of the automated processes that the companies will go out of business. And I wonder if it will be reached in my lifetime.
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I have seen figures that in some parts of the world (Pacific Islands for instance) the majority of people have never been in employment. I don't think we're going to end up with a society based on growing vegetables, fishing, dancing in masks and cannibalistic wars, but there is the opportunity to develop something equally pleasant. Ha ha!
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I actually prefer the self check out; they are much quicker and you don't need to interact with another person.
I can't see why not having to interact with another person is an advantage.
Because you're deaf, don't speak the local language, or have some disability that makes it difficult. Or maybe you want to avoid the disapproving looks from the Gulf Arab/Southern Baptist checkout operator when they scan your booze and porn!
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As for the question of automation of menial jobs, that of course relates to how society is run; by and for the benefit of ordinary people or by and for the rich and powerful.
Most people's lives have menial elements. Mowing the lawn, looking after children, shopping et al. Many people get satisfaction from activities with manual components, gardening is a prime example.
The major division is between those who have control over what they do, and those who don't.
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I actually prefer the self check out; they are much quicker and you don't need to interact with another person.
I can't see why not having to interact with another person is an advantage.
Because you're deaf, don't speak the local language, or have some disability that makes it difficult. Or maybe you want to avoid the disapproving looks from the Gulf Arab/Southern Baptist checkout operator when they scan your booze and porn!
Those of us that are deaf often get disapproving looks from people just because. I really need a T shirt that says 'I'm no daft, I'm DEAF' but worry that my friends would just take the piss. Not that they don't already[1].
1.Unless I ask them to stop, which they will when I do. Mostly though, I give as good as I get ;D
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As for the question of automation of menial jobs, that of course relates to how society is run; by and for the benefit of ordinary people or by and for the rich and powerful.
Most people's lives have menial elements. Mowing the lawn, looking after children, shopping et al. Many people get satisfaction from activities with manual components, gardening is a prime example.
The major division is between those who have control over what they do, and those who don't.
If looking after children is menial, you're doing it wrong!
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Going back to the loss of menial jobs and whether they're worth protecting – maybe if the job seems dull, the wrong person is doing it?
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On the topic of the self checkout in general, why do you need to scan item item individually anyway? You should be able to put your basket on the machine and it scans all the items in one go, like the machines at the library.
As for the question of automation of menial jobs, that of course relates to how society is run; by and for the benefit of ordinary people or by and for the rich and powerful.
Because bar codes are an established technology in retail and rfid is not, I suppose.
But linking the two together, it does seem that librarians welcomed the introduction of selfscan machines in libraries as it allows them to get on with the real work of librarianship as opposed to datestamping tickets. Perhaps the existence of that work is a key difference between libraries and supermarkets!
Actually it allows Libraries to open with fewer qualified staff.
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Dullest job I ever had was unloading 25kg blocks of sheep food off a conveyor and stacking them on a pallet. For twelve hours a day. That would be 70–80 tonnes a shift. There was one guy and he'd been doing that forty years. I didn't manage that quite as long. You didn't want to be punched by me after that summer. I was 90% shoulders and arms.
Night shift was worse. They'd turn up the machines so they ran double time on the basis that you could, having hit your quota, have a sneaky nap till clocking off time. Splendid plan as at that point you practically passed out.
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On the topic of the self checkout in general, why do you need to scan item item individually anyway? You should be able to put your basket on the machine and it scans all the items in one go, like the machines at the library.
As for the question of automation of menial jobs, that of course relates to how society is run; by and for the benefit of ordinary people or by and for the rich and powerful.
Because bar codes are an established technology in retail and rfid is not, I suppose.
But linking the two together, it does seem that librarians welcomed the introduction of selfscan machines in libraries as it allows them to get on with the real work of librarianship as opposed to datestamping tickets. Perhaps the existence of that work is a key difference between libraries and supermarkets!
Actually it allows Libraries to open with fewer qualified staff.
Yes, by reducing the workload to something manageable with the staff left after the council's made half of them redundant because budgets. Though it only works once, in the end you close them all anyway. Perhaps something similar is at work in supermarkets? Not so much machines as a reason to get rid of people, but machines to keep the shop functioning after you've got rid of people anyway, and in the end it'll all be robots picking from a warehouse and loading on to autonomous-driving vans.
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A disadvantage of the auto tills is that you can't play "how much do you think this lot will cost?" with the cashier. Hours of fun for all the family.
Mum had trained Small Brother to tot up groceries as he sat atop the trolley as a Very Small.
Hours of fun...
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Dullest job I ever had was unloading 25kg blocks of sheep food off a conveyor and stacking them on a pallet. For twelve hours a day. That would be 70–80 tonnes a shift. There was one guy and he'd been doing that forty years. I didn't manage that quite as long. You didn't want to be punched by me after that summer. I was 90% shoulders and arms.
Night shift was worse. They'd turn up the machines so they ran double time on the basis that you could, having hit your quota, have a sneaky nap till clocking off time. Splendid plan as at that point you practically passed out.
Dullest one I had was a cable making factory. Watch the machine and if a line goes slack hit the stop button and wait for the supervisor. The other chap had the interesting job at the other end, occasionally nudging a lever to shift the reel a bit right or left.
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I've had more than a several dull jobs.
Cleaning a factory was dull. It was sweeping it out and cleaning the loos. I could sweep the whole thing in half the time of the person I was replacing. The shop steward visited me and told me to slow down.
I did not like cleaning the loos in a sulphur smog so I used to open the windows. They’d shut them and then open their fetid bowels. Nice. The sexual harassment from the women provided a third antidote to the dull.
Mind you, packing Diesel engines in crates was pretty dull. Bits of wood, hammers, nails. I livened it up by calculating the total length of nails I was hitting in every day. 1/3rd of a mile. They livened it up in the canteen. Firstly by talking about the colleague who deflowered underage girls in his caravan, then by wondering buggering someone who had eaten cabbage was worse than someone who hadn’t and finally one of them brought in a used fanny pad he’d found on the road outside. Another worker grabbed it, opened it out and sniffed it, exclaiming ‘bloody hell, the woman that used this, she had BO’.
Sorry, it’s a bit off. Topic.
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My local Sainsburys has a new model of self-service checkout which doesn't have scales and has a scanner which is very hard to use. You have to be very patient with it and keep your wits about you if you want to make sure you don't steal anything. It's the stupidest thing I've ever seen in retailing.
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They might be better off with a vegetable-recognition camera: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/avocados-carrots-self-service-scam-supermarkets-checkout-stealing-a8370621.html It's not clear why they didn't program it to raise an alert if someone buys 18kg of *anything* in one go.
Or how about an age-recognition camera for when you have beer in your trolley?
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All this talk of mindless jobs reminds me of some of the tasks I had to do as an apprentice and junior technician. In olden times automatic telephone exchanges were electromechanical with lots and lots of relays. Meter routines were dull. You’d have racks of electrically incremented counters, one for each telephone connected to the exchange. You then had a 'routiner' that you plugged in at the end of a shelf of these meters with a rotary switch and toggle switch. You look at the first meter on the shelf, flip the toggle switch and watch the meter as it is incremented by 10. You turn the rotary switch one click, flip the toggle and watch the next switch. And so on. If one of the meters doesn’t increment by 10 you had to fix it. Though 'bank' cleaning was probably the worst job but it requires quite a lengthy description to put it into context.
They really were wonderful technological masterpieces were old telephone exchanges. Steam punk imagination really couldn’t top the delights of an 'eleven and over final selector', a motor uniselector or a personal favourite, a mechanical regenerator. Sigh.
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They might be better off with a vegetable-recognition camera: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/avocados-carrots-self-service-scam-supermarkets-checkout-stealing-a8370621.html It's not clear why they didn't program it to raise an alert if someone buys 18kg of *anything* in one go.
Or how about an age-recognition camera for when you have beer in your trolley?
Or in terms of things that might actually work now, a means of scanning your driving licence, passport or similar.
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Or how about an age-recognition camera for when you have beer in your trolley?
Or in terms of things that might actually work now, a means of scanning your driving licence, passport or similar.
It's surely already equipped to authenticate a credit card? That would seem like an obvious work-around. They don't even have to use it for payment, just log that they've seen it (as per railway ticket machines dispensing pre-booked orange cardboard).
"You appear to be buying drinkohol. Swipe your credit card or wait for assistance." Small matter of programming, innit.
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Or how about an age-recognition camera for when you have beer in your trolley?
Or in terms of things that might actually work now, a means of scanning your driving licence, passport or similar.
It's surely already equipped to authenticate a credit card? That would seem like an obvious work-around. They don't even have to use it for payment, just log that they've seen it (as per railway ticket machines dispensing pre-booked orange cardboard).
"You appear to be buying drinkohol. Swipe your credit card or wait for assistance." Small matter of programming, innit.
Except that it's all too easy to borrow a credit card, or "borrow" one. And even then, would the CC company be willing/able to return personal information to the merchant?
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Or how about an age-recognition camera for when you have beer in your trolley?
Or in terms of things that might actually work now, a means of scanning your driving licence, passport or similar.
It's surely already equipped to authenticate a credit card? That would seem like an obvious work-around. They don't even have to use it for payment, just log that they've seen it (as per railway ticket machines dispensing pre-booked orange cardboard).
"You appear to be buying drinkohol. Swipe your credit card or wait for assistance." Small matter of programming, innit.
Except that it's all too easy to borrow a credit card, or "borrow" one.
Is that not still sufficient arse-covering for the retailer, which is what this is about? "My robot didn't sell to a minor, it was a victim of fraud."
And even then, would the CC company be willing/able to return personal information to the merchant?
Does it have to? Surely "yes, this is a valid card" (which it does anyway to allow payments) should suffice.
I note that $mobile-telco seem satisfied with the use of a credit card for top-ups to prove that you're not a minor for the purposes of unlocking adults-only content (ie. websites suspected to contain pr0n, gambling, bad words or useful information).
Unless pre-payed credit cards have since muddied the "you need to be 18 to have a credit agreement" waters?
Alternatively, they could put that loyalty card database to good use and use that. Cashier check ID once, sets flag in database, mum's nectar card suddenly becomes massively more interesting to teenagers. Throw in a touch of facial recognition to fix that...
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I actually prefer the self check out; they are much quicker and you don't need to interact with another person.
I can't see why not having to interact with another person is an advantage.
For some people the thought of having to speak to another person is tremendously anxiety inducing.
Personally, I hated those self checkout things until Kim pointed out there's a button on the screen so you can make it stop SHOUTING AT YOU , or just STFU altogether, so thanks Kim :thumbsup:
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I actually prefer the self check out; they are much quicker and you don't need to interact with another person.
I can't see why not having to interact with another person is an advantage.
For some people the thought of having to speak to another person is tremendously anxiety inducing.
Personally, I hated those self checkout things until Kim pointed out there's a button on the screen so you can make it stop SHOUTING AT YOU , or just STFU altogether, so thanks Kim :thumbsup:
^This.
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I occasionally see mums with a (probably) 3 or 4 year old who is eating his way through something she has picked off the shelf. It keeps him quiet and occupied while she shops. I have seen a couple of times when mum has to explain to the cashier why she is paying for an empty wrapper. I wonder how self-checkouts would handle that.
It'll scan the empty wrapper just fine, then moan about you not placing the item in the bagging area. Unless it's one of the ones that doesn't bother weighing the items, in which case no problem. Or if you attempt to hoodwink it with a bag of sand like Indiana Jones, I suppose.
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I actually prefer the self check out; they are much quicker and you don't need to interact with another person.
I can't see why not having to interact with another person is an advantage.
For some people the thought of having to speak to another person is tremendously anxiety inducing.
Or just difficult, if you've got a speech or hearing impairment. Actually, that's one of the other cool things about self check-outs - some of them (eg. the Scottish Restaraunt's McOrder-o-Matic[1]) can speak a multitude of different languages. A technology that would be useful in Silly Oak when the international students arrive.
[1] That's what it should be called, anyway.
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Ooh, that's a good idea, so you can be shouted at in your lingo of choice ;)
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Where is the STFU button? And which supermarket's machines are we talking about, as I guess they vary a bit. I've never noticed it. (And is there a way of remotely operating it on all the machines in the shop? :D)
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As an alternative to manned checkouts or self-service ones, many supermarkets now have the hand held scanners. No need to interact, no bagging area, and suitable for a large shop. Given that you have to weigh and price your own fruit and veg, it may not save more than 2 or 3 minutes. And I don’t know how they deal with alcohol, unless it’s by dint of you paying by cc, but most supermarkets operate a minimum 25 years old policy these days.
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And I don’t know how they deal with alcohol, unless it’s by dint of you paying by cc, but most supermarkets operate a minimum 25 years old policy these days.
There's usually a minion in the vicinity to deal with alcomohols, security tags and random searches.
I like the hand held scanner things. It means you can keep a running total of spending without having to actually do the arithmetic yourself.
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Where is the STFU button? And which supermarket's machines are we talking about, as I guess they vary a bit. I've never noticed it. (And is there a way of remotely operating it on all the machines in the shop? :D)
Depends on the flavour of machine, but look for a loudspeaker / volume icon on the opening screen before you start scanning items.
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And I don’t know how they deal with alcohol, unless it’s by dint of you paying by cc, but most supermarkets operate a minimum 25 years old policy these days.
It's not "be 25 or we won't sell you boozohol," it's "look 25 or we'll ask you for ID that proves you're over 18." (Also applies to fireworks, fags, solvents, knives, certain DVDs ...)
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Maybe there's a Chope-Davies variant (deviant) self-checkout that has a camera to surreptitiously film up your skirt/dress/kilt/excessive voluminous trouser leg as you discharge your shopping responsibilities. It's only reasonable to assume that as such machines become inevitably sentient they'll adopt some of the less pleasant manners of the people that programmed them. When the T100 came back, well, letting it all hang out in Griffith Park. A perfect facsimile of LA behaviour. You think that was accident of programming? No. I suppose it could have been worse, I figure leather bondage wear meets the organic tissue requirements of time travel.
I live down the road from the Anne Summers Dildo Proving Grounds, basically an Area 51 for sex toys and lingerie. I'm mostly scared about what happens if they get free and I end up being chased back from the pub by a scantily clad life-like sexbot intent on just two things, only one of which is world-denomination. Come on, the first reason someone will invent a proper humanoid robot is for sex. It's our first and primary motivation. Self-checkout is just a stepping stone and still people insist of putting unexpected items in the bagging area. You have to wonder if that's why aliens are so keen on travelling the galaxy in search of bumfun. It makes sense that aliens created their own robot explorers and they, as they do, took over and now scour the universe looking for orifices to probe.
There you go, from Sainsbury's self-checkout to alien sex probes in one post, and it's not even lunchtime.
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I wouldn't worry. Any sexbot from Ann Summers is likely to fall apart shortly after negotiating the surprisingly tricky transition from carpet to wood at the front door. And even if it doesn't it'll deplete its expensive chosen-for-obscurity power source before much in the way of probing can be done.
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As an alternative to manned checkouts or self-service ones, many supermarkets now have the hand held scanners. No need to interact, no bagging area, and suitable for a large shop. Given that you have to weigh and price your own fruit and veg, it may not save more than 2 or 3 minutes. And I don’t know how they deal with alcohol, unless it’s by dint of you paying by cc, but most supermarkets operate a minimum 25 years old policy these days.
It's mostly a fine thing, scanning as you shop. Purchase of age restricted goods have to be approved by a real person.
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Been using self-scan as you shop at Waitrose for years, Saves queuing at a checkout and having to unpack and repack all the items. Get a largely free set of bags, think you have to pay for the cool bag.
Occasionally the final automated checkout calls for a check by staff, about once every two years in my experience.
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I wouldn't worry. Any sexbot from Ann Summers is likely to fall apart shortly after negotiating the surprisingly tricky transition from carpet to wood at the front door. And even if it doesn't it'll deplete its expensive chosen-for-obscurity power source before much in the way of probing can be done.
Standard military/government contractor then.
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I occasionally see mums with a (probably) 3 or 4 year old who is eating his way through something she has picked off the shelf. It keeps him quiet and occupied while she shops. I have seen a couple of times when mum has to explain to the cashier why she is paying for an empty wrapper. I wonder how self-checkouts would handle that.
[OT] I was in the habit of eating wares whilst in the garage check-out queue on nocturnal Audaxes, presenting empty wrappers for payment.
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Is self-scan a thing anywhere other than Waitrose? I've never seen it in any Sainsbury, Tesco, etc.
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Is self-scan a thing anywhere other than Waitrose? I've never seen it in any Sainsbury, Tesco, etc.
They have it in our big Tesco Extra.
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Self-scan exists in the big branch of Mr Sainsbury's House Of Toothy Comestibles near Fort Larrington, in leafy Surrey, but not in my local one in pikey-haunted E17.
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All the supermarkets round us, apart from the big Waitrose in Henleaze but including the little Waitrose in Clifton, are small and pikey, so I won't be expecting any soon!
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Where is the STFU button? And which supermarket's machines are we talking about, as I guess they vary a bit. I've never noticed it. (And is there a way of remotely operating it on all the machines in the shop? :D)
Volume button is at the bottom of the screen, at least in Sainsbury's. I don't think I ever noticed it myself because being shouted at discombobulated me such that I was in a rush and never spotted it...
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OK, I'm not going to use Sainsbury's self checkouts anymore, the last time I tried to turn the screen, it was done up tight and wouldn't move. I will now only use Sainsbury and use the normal checkout for stuff not available in Lidl or Aldi.
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Self-scan: I saw an advertorial in a Polish news site about it. It's now a thing in the Piotr i Paweł chain too, in case you ever happen to be there. Guess it's the growing trend.
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Our Tesco extra gives away free fruit to children. I regularly see the children queuing up to get a banana or small orange to eat as they go round the store. i think this is an excellent idea.
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That is a very good idea. :thumbsup:
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Asda has them now (I mean the cameras and screens).
I've been in a couple:
large store in newish residential area with more self checkouts than staffed checkouts.
high street store, self checkouts only except for one cigarettes/lottery till.
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My local Royal Mail collection office has the screen!
OK, cctv are everywhere but they've put a screen behind the counter on the wall.
Is this the future, everywhere you go outside of your home there'll be monitors and screens on public display showing everyone going about their daily business?
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My local Royal Mail collection office has the screen!
OK, cctv are everywhere but they've put a screen behind the counter on the wall.
Is this the future, everywhere you go outside of your home there'll be monitors and screens on public display showing everyone going about their daily business?
Having a big screen that is visible to customers has been shown to greatly reduce aggression to staff (and other customers). More so than "Warning: CCTV" stickers/posters.
A system that records and keeps the data for 30 days is quite expensive, but a simple camera and screen (with no recording capability) works equally as a deterrent.
Obviously the efficacy of this will be diluted if they start appearing everywhere, or it becomes known that certain systems don't have any recording capability.
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FFS, Lidl has the camera and screen now!
Or at least the one Lidl store I went to last week has them. My previous visits were more than a month ago but they were in a different area. I don't know if it's a trial or they're just starting now to introduce them to all stores.
My local Royal Mail collection office has the screen!
OK, cctv are everywhere but they've put a screen behind the counter on the wall.
Is this the future, everywhere you go outside of your home there'll be monitors and screens on public display showing everyone going about their daily business?
Having a big screen that is visible to customers has been shown to greatly reduce aggression to staff (and other customers). More so than "Warning: CCTV" stickers/posters.
A system that records and keeps the data for 30 days is quite expensive, but a simple camera and screen (with no recording capability) works equally as a deterrent.
Obviously the efficacy of this will be diluted if they start appearing everywhere, or it becomes known that certain systems don't have any recording capability.
Or people will wear masks. From now on, it will be acceptable and normal to wear masks in public if you feel ill, just like in the far East.
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I went to our local Wilcos recently, (who I think have been open all pandemic, because food)
Half way through the "self checkout" I was thinking this user interface is functional but not good at visually indicating the next action etc.
It turns out they had just turned the screens round on the "manned" tills to face the customer, I assume locked the cash draws and moved on.
I asked the assistant who confirmed it by saying "Yes, you work for us now" in a way that sounded just a touch dystopian.
I hope they go back to employing people, but who knows.
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I went to our local Wilcos recently, (who I think have been open all pandemic, because food)
Half way through the "self checkout" I was thinking this user interface is functional but not good at visually indicating the next action etc.
It turns out they had just turned the screens round on the "manned" tills to face the customer, I assume locked the cash draws and moved on.
I asked the assistant who confirmed it by saying "Yes, you work for us now" in a way that sounded just a touch dystopian.
I hope they go back to employing people, but who knows.
See discussion starting here: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=115182.msg2526740#msg2526740
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If you want to nick stuff, it's probably easier to use self-scan. They very rarely do re-scans and you could pretend it was an honest mistake. I bet this had an effect on shrinkage and they offset that against the cost of the cashiers they could dispense with.
FWIW, the time the system screwed up and I needed a total trolley rescan, the bill came to £5 less than I'd had on the phone app. Cashiers make mistakes too.
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Our local M&S food hall (which I've been using for the weekly necessities since the queues at Tesco were ludicrous) has recently (in the last 3 weeks) removed the three "basket only" tills and one of the conventional tills, and replaced them with 6 self-service tills. Which is fine for baskets but not so much if you have a trolley load. They still have 3 conventional tills but each time I've been since the change, at 5pm they only have 1 of them operational, and they seem to shut that around 5 - I get to the till around that time.
Given the usual demographic of the customer base there - which is generally elderly - I'm not sure of the rationale for the change.
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I accidentally nicked something from the Co-op last week. Had a problem scanning one item, had to wave it around several times. Then when I got home, realised I'd failed to scan the previous item. I suppose I "ought" to have taken the item back and fessed up, but I expect they would have laughed at me. Or nicked me!
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Given the usual demographic of the customer base there - which is generally elderly - I'm not sure of the rationale for the change.
I guess it depends on where this particular M&S is, but our two nearest – one in the city centre, one on a busy road with offices and cafes – attract at least as many office workers as elderly people. Not sure how that ratio has been affected by Covid, when one group is working from home and the other is sheltering.
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Self-scan exists in the big branch of Mr Sainsbury's House Of Toothy Comestibles near Fort Larrington, in leafy Surrey, but not in my local one in pikey-haunted E17.
It does exist in my local outpost of Mr Sainsbury’s House of Toothy Comestibles now, but to use it you need a Nectar card. While I have one, I haven’t used it since the day Nectar announced a tie-up with the Daily Heil, except to spend my accrued points on new underwear.
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That's interesting. I haven't encountered that – but then I haven't been in Mr Sainsbury’s House of Toothy Comestibles since clockdown.
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I accidentally nicked something from the Co-op last week. Had a problem scanning one item, had to wave it around several times. Then when I got home, realised I'd failed to scan the previous item. I suppose I "ought" to have taken the item back and fessed up, but I expect they would have laughed at me. Or nicked me!
The Co-Op would have laughed; Tesco you'd be in the slammer in the basement.
We had a leaky ready meal at Tesco checkout. They went back and got a non-leaky one but when we asked for a bag to put items that had been leaked on they told us it would cost us 10p! How we laughed..
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We once 'nicked' an entire double-bed sized mattress from Ikea. We thought it was cheap, they evidently neglected to scan it. Because we are honest, we did phone them to offer to pay, but if you've ever had cause to phone their helpline, you'll already know that no one ever got to back to us.
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I owe Sainsbury's around £50 for groceries I ordered and had delivered to my Ancient Parents early in March. They never issued a bill, as the computer had apparently broken down.
Parents have repaid me.
I spent ages on endless calls to their Helldesk. Then there was lockdown and I gave up...
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I have a £250 dehumidifier sitting in the garage. It was broke on arrival (the little float that stops the water tank overfilling didn't work). Tesco promptly sent a replacement but never arranged for the return of the old one.