multiple OSM Maps on Etrex 20

[rwa.martin]

I'm having trouble loading multiple OSM maps on my eTrex 20. I can successfully load one map and it will display regardless of it's name. However, if I load a second map it doesn't display or show in the list of maps. I have tried to load multiple images into one gmapsupp.img file using mkgmap but this again only shows one map. I've tried using different product/family id's (although I'm not fully sure what these are for yet).
Is there any obvious "gotcha" I'm missing? Any advice welcome.
Thanks
Rich.

[Biggsy]

EDIT:  The following instructions are probably no good for the Etrex 20, sorry.  I'll leave them here anyway in case they're of interest to Edge 605/705 users.


1.  Download maps.

2.  Split each map into multiple .IMG files with GMapTool.

3.  Install the multiple .IMG files to MapSource with MapSetToolKit.

4.  Create and send the single memory card file with MapSource.


You won't need to combine maps if you just want the British Isles OSM with contours.  That's available on a single map.

[frankly frankie]

Judging by my experience with an E30, a combined map as above isn't the best solution, because in the E30 menus it just appears as a single map - can't be separated out again.

However I have successfully loaded multiple map files and these are all separately accessible.
1. Each .img file has a different filename and to be safe, I stick to 8.3 naming eg   gmap_osm.img   etc.
2. They can be stored either/or in the GPS memory or on the SD card.  I prefer the SD card but that's just me.
3. Either way, they must sit in a subdirectory \Garmin
(where, in the device memory, you will find the basemap as the file   gmapbmap.img )

so, eg   [Garmin E20] \ Garmin \ gmapsupp.img   could be the bought-from-Garmin map, 'do not disturb'
and,   [microSD card] \ Garmin \ gmap_osm.img   could be additional OSM mapping which could be updated periodically,
and you can select either/or/both in the menus.  More than 2 map files are possible, and in either location.

[Biggsy]

Judging by my experience with an E30, a combined map as above isn't the best solution, because in the E30 menus it just appears as a single map - can't be separated out again.

I think you mentioned that before, and I forgot.  Sorry about that.  I will edit my post above.

[rwa.martin]

I've tried both approaches and neither is working for me. I suspect I'm doing something basic wrong.

Map 1 is built using OSM extracted data using the following:
java -jar %mkgmap_path%\mkgmap.jar --input-file=hwest.osm --route

Map 2 is built the same way :
java -jar %mkgmap_path%\mkgmap.jar --input-file=maenclochog.osm --route

I've then loaded both the .img files loaded to the garmin directory (63240001.img and 63240002.img) Only one is visible.

(I've also used the --gmapsupp parameter and the same issue occurs)

I've also tried to combine the maps as follows:

java -jar %mkgmap_path%\mkgmap.jar --gmapsupp --description=Richards_OSM_Map --family-id=50 --product-id=1 63240001.img --family-id=40 --product-id=1 63240002.img

but again only one map is visible.

With just one file loaded I see it ok which seems to indicate there isn't a problem with the maps themselves.

Thanks for your assistance so far.

Rich.


PS as an aside, I'm still suffering from the maps vanishing when viewing a turn in active route - anyone else suffering this?

[frankly frankie]

When you say only one is visible - do you mean that with both .img files loaded, you only see one in the map setup menu on the GPS?

Or do you mean that you can only see one of the two maps on screen?  If the latter - that's probably just a transparency thing - one overlays the other and obscures it.

If the former - I don't know, I would have suggested one file is faulty, but you've tried that.

Also make sure each map is 'named' differently even before you get to the compile stage - eg call one 'OSM Wales' and the other 'OSM local' or whatever.

[henshaw11]

Funnily enough I almost posted a similar thing yesterday !

I've yet to test this properly - but I *think* it may be to do with using 'Safely remove hardware' under windoze (or I guess a sync/umount under linux). I've got a few other devices that it doesn't seem to matter with, including one disk drive that never removes properly, so I'd rather got into a habit of not doing so...

Currently I have (talkytoaster) osm with contours, osm without contours, and osm contours-only  files on my 30 - but only 2 appearing in the map select menu, and only one of those displays - one thing I tried yesterday was using the 'remove' step, but I'm not sure what combination of files I had on there working at what time. So I've just blown away the lot and I'll try them one-by-one

Just tried contours only and that didn't appear..currently downloading Brit Isles less contours....

Update:
Ok, weird shit :/
Powered up the device, now can see 'enabled - british_isles' and 'enabled -'  (ie no name for the contours I guess)
Now I *should* have had a good pan around to try to spot some contours first, but in map setup selected the no-names map and saw enabled/disabled/brighter options. Think I mebbe I hit disable then re-enabled again (without quitting that menu), and selected a 'brighter' option. Drop back to map menu and the fecker's disappeared off the list ! Powered off/on again - no difference.

I'll lob on the 3rd map *with* contours, and see what changes...

Scrub that, slight change of tack:
I now have brit isles+ contours, and brit isles (no contours) in /Garmin - ~455M and 339M respectively
Both enabled - see map with contours (tick)
brit isles enabled - ie contour version disabled  - see map, no contours (ticks)
brit isles disabled - ie brit isles_contours enabled - no map, but have contours (??)

WTF ?

I'll circulate some other combination through the /bak directory I've put there (to save moving the files on each time, and see what else happens...)

Update - with the brit isles (no contours) and contours-only moved to /Garmin/bak - ie just brit isles+contours in /garmin - see all of map data with contours (as expected).

I can kinda live with that, but it's a bit daft to need two *big* maps on there just to have the option of contours on/off....there's something utterly f*cked in their map handling.

I'll see if I can spot any useful behavior with the two large maps and the contour-only map a bit later...

Frankie - are your maps some you've built, or some off the web ? - and what version's the device firmware ?(mine's 2.1)
If you feel inclined to try the talkytoaster maps too, that'd be handy

I've an sdcard on order, I'll try a similar process when that arrives, but I can't see it being anything other than something in the map data or the firmware that's causing the issue - there's a(n xml ?) file on the device which looks like it points the firmware at where the assorted device data (maps etc) resides.

Ok
Final update (for the moment..)
With either or the brit isles maps in /Garmin, then putting in the contours-only file - just don't see the contours in the menu....how I even got 'em to appear once I dunno.

If I use both the brit isles maps together  in /Garmin I get contours, and I can turn off contours (as mentioned before by turning off the combined contours map. However, it seems order dependant*.
If I have brit isle + contours resident, then mv in brit isles only - don't see second file in maps setup.
If I have brit isles (less contours) resindent, then mv in brit isles + contours - see both files in map setup, and can turn off contours by turning off the brit isles + contorus map - as I described earlier.

*that may be a clue as to what I don't see the combined map - maybe I need to put on contours *then* the non-contours brit isles.

However, I'm now back at something which works, even if a bit cackly - at some point I'll raise a support call with Garmin, point them at the maps and let them work out WTF's going on...

[frankly frankie]

v2.1 (out of the box) and, given these difficulties, I don't feel much inclined to experiment away from my working setup 

I've got 3 map .img files, all in the \Garmin folder on the SD card.

1. Garmin Metroguide, UK and much of W.Europe/Alps - a big file of >1Gb.
2. Contours only, UK, France and Alps/Pyrenees.
3. OSM, just local to me (mainly for the paths and tracks).

Of course there is also the Basemap .img file which is on the GPS memory, and all 4 are available separately in the map menu, along with a 5th entry 'Digital Globe' whatever that is (terrain shading? or example aerial imagery?).

(First of all I tried a combined file, Biggsy-style, but in the Map setup menu that appeared only as a single map, so I was unable to switch between OSM/Metroguide.  Separate map files is just another way of skinning the cat, and probably makes more sense really - certainly makes it very easy to update my local OSM map periodically.)

In my case they've all been generated by exporting from Mapsource into an older Etrex and then copying from that SD card into my 'store' on the PC (NAS actually) from where I can copy them onto any other GPS (since there are several GPSs in this household) - NB Metroguide is not locked in any way so used like this it suits me better than City.
The Contours and OSM were imported into Mapsource in the first place using MapSetToolKit, which I can recommend to Mapsource-owners (though it does farkle with your Registry, which is a bit scary).

I realise none of the last para is very helpful if you only have a new Etrex!

I also sometimes use pre-compiled .img files downloaded from Free Routable Maps for Garmin which is my preferred source for OSM - but I haven't tried this yet on the E30 - a minor problem with these is that they all download with the same name 'OSM World Routable' so it might be confusing to have more than one on the GPS at the same time.

[henshaw11]

Curious.

Yeah, I don't blame you for not wanting to tinker - tho' if there's nothing actually resident on the device I'd rather expect it wouldn't screw things up. Mind you, I'd also rather expect it to just frigging work ! It's a bit bizarre that it's changed from the Oregon/Dakota etc - unless it's one way of trying to make things simpler for a perhaps a lower powered processor under the hood.

Well, the sd card's probably a day or two away, I'll try that when it arrives. With my hw/sw engineer's hat on I'd not expect it to make any odds, but there's summat funny going on so yer never know..

[rwa.martin]

When you say only one is visible - do you mean that with both .img files loaded, you only see one in the map setup menu on the GPS?

Or do you mean that you can only see one of the two maps on screen?  If the latter - that's probably just a transparency thing - one overlays the other and obscures it.

With both maps loaded as separate files only one appears in the list of available maps (I think the first one loaded but I'll check this) and is the only one I can see as an actual map. With the maps combined again only one is shown (as expected) but only one of the maps is visible.

The maps are very simple extracts from OSM of two areas - my home village and Haverfordwest. They are about 10 miles apart and the extracts do not overlap. They were downloaded specifically to experiment with multiple maps on the eTrex so I didn't try to do anything clever at this stage.

I'll continue experimenting and report back if I discover anything.

Rich.

[frankly frankie]

The maps are very simple extracts from OSM of two areas - my home village and Haverfordwest. They are about 10 miles apart and the extracts do not overlap.

In that case transparency should not be an issue.

[fhills]

I have the same issue.

Downloaded an Andy gates OSM map and was encouraged by the fact that the Etrex 20 has a function to select and individually enable/disable maps which made what I had read about it only being possible to have one map loaded at a time seem like a thing of the past.

Put the img file in the main Garmin folder and no dice - can't see it. Also tried putting it in "custom maps" (not sure what that is) but no dice there either.

I have given the file various eightfigure names including the apparently traditionally favoured gmapsupp.img but it seems to make no difference.

I have been loading into the onboard memory since there seems to be plenty of it. I don't have a suitable microSD card to hand at the moment.

I need to sort this in the next week really as need to use it in anger after that.

((By the way, I updated the firmware to 2.4 after I logged on to the Garmin site and it told me that an update was available - not encouraged by Garmin's online system - the instructions for the update routine said to do the update it, then detach the Etrex20 from the PC USB and let it then autmatically reboot itself. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, it warned, should I power up the Etrex 20 if this auto reboot failed it said, as this could screw the device up and necessitate a return to Garmin.

Since it did fail to reboot I called Garmin and they said to then do what I had been told not to do by the online system, which definitely knew which model I had. Even down to its serial number. Not encouraging at all. The Garmin person was helpful but rather had the attitude of "let's move on" when I protested that the online system was just plain wrong.)

Back to the map question - hope someone figures something as I'm lost.

I suppose the zipped IMG file I downloaded could have become corrupted - anyone got a small one to use as a test?

Garmin support now shut until Monday I think.
   

[stat]

I loaded the OSM maps on to SD card but no joy either. Not sure if I should have loaded Base camp on to the GPS. I was told by GPS training from whom I purchased the Etrex that one could only load Garmin maps! Will have a play around at a later date.

[rwa.martin]

Ok, a bit of progress but not sure why yet.
I loaded an OSM map of Wales produced via mkgmap as gmapsupp.img  This has been on the etrex before and has performed fine. It's referenced in the list of maps as "OSM street map" I built this map a week or so ago and it has been my primary map for a while. It routes ok etc.

I have also loaded a map of the UK downloaded from Talkytoaster. This has been on the etrex as well and has performed ok. I've not tried having it loaded concurrently with the map above.

Yesterday I loaded the Talkytoaster map, renamed it richard.img then loaded my other map. Both appear in the list of maps! The Talkytoaster map is listed....

 Enabled - Richard
GB contours, OSM-great_britain

My map appears as
Enabled - OSM street map

Does this give anyone any clues? Could it have anything to do with product/family ids or perhaps the order of the mkgmap syntax being used?

Rich.

[frankly frankie]

Always leave the product Id as 1.  Family Ids can be anything so long as they're all different - certain numbers are allocated to Garmin's own maps but it doesn't matter as long as you don't have those maps on your system.

[fhills]

Does this give anyone any clues? Could it have anything to do with product/family ids or perhaps the order of the mkgmap syntax being used?

Rich.

Sorry (I'm not very technical and starting to yearn for my previous love of maps/contempt for GPS as the antithesis of cycling) but I don't understand this. Could someone enlighten me?

all the best

P
 

[fhills]

PS in case I'm doing something really basic  wrong.

To get the maps onto the Etrex20 (in theory at least) you just ensure that the appropriately formatted map has an eight figure prefix followed by .img, then with the Etrex in USB mass storage device mode just treat the USB connected Etrex as a plugged in drive and copy/move the .img file from your PC into the Garmin folder? <I'm using the folder on the deviec itself not a card at the moment>

Can anyone tell me what the "custom maps" folder is for?

 

[frankly frankie]

BTW I don't think it has to be 8.3 - that's just me being extra careful - I think any name will do as long as it's a valid map file and it's an .img extension, and is located in the \Garmin folder.

I suspect 'custom maps' is for aerial images and other odd maps that have been scanned and geocoded to work in the GPS.

PS you don't need to know anything about the product number thing - you can download usable .img map files from various sources and they should Just Work.

[henshaw11]

Custom maps are just a map .jpg that you can use as an overlay - you do a little bit of processing using google maps to align it to the google satellite imagery, then download it to the device. It should then appear as another map (layer).
http://www.garmin.com/us/products/onthetrail/custommaps.

Yesterday I loaded the Talkytoaster map, renamed it richard.img then loaded my other map. Both appear in the list of maps! The Talkytoaster map is listed....

 Enabled - Richard
GB contours, OSM-great_britain

You're definitely doing better than me - even when I *did* briefly have what appeared to be the contours in the menu, it didn't give the map name or a description - just said "Enabled - "

To get the maps onto the Etrex20 (in theory at least) you just ensure that the appropriately formatted map has an eight figure prefix followed by .img, then with the Etrex in USB mass storage device mode just treat the USB connected Etrex as a plugged in drive and copy/move the .img file from your PC into the Garmin folder? <I'm using the folder on the deviec itself not a card at the moment>

Yup, that should be fine. You *are* doing the 'safely remove hardware' step ? - if I didn't, it just wouldn't appear in the map menu. Or at least, the last file transferred wouldn't appear. When you go through the 'remove hardware' step, you should see both the Garmin's internal (flash) memory listed, as well as it's sdcard interface (it'll be listed even if there isn't an sdcard fitted)
(The point being that when the pc writes to an sdcard or other removable storage, it may not write *everything* when you think it has - the 'remove hardware' operation forces the pc to complete any outstanding writes to the storage that you're intending to unhook from the PC.)

It doesn't seem to matter whether it's 'card' or 'flash' you select to remove, since it does both.

[Kim]

I would assume that if the product/family ID are the same, the eTrex will assume they're parts of the same map and only give you a single menu option for them, regardless of what area they cover, transparency or what you call them?

[fhills]

Thanks to all - now sorted it.

You may have been right Henshaw 11 - when I downloaded then copied over the file the previous time I do at some point in the long process remember some error message about failure to write everything. I didn't realise that the "remove hardware safely" thing finished actions off as of course everything seemed finished anyway. Good tip.

Thanks to RWA Martin for sending me a small IMG test file and to stat for the tip to get new cards from 7dayshop.

I have continued until now to use the 8.3 format but it is definitely correct that you can load multiple map fles and the name displayed on the Etrex seems to come from within the file itself rather than from the name you have given the file.

After getting the new file onto the Etrex I then moved it over to an inserted microcard but then couldn't see it any longer. Silly me - needed to create a folder called "Garmin" on the card and then move it there. All now fine. Thanks again chaps. Am pleased with the Etrex and the OSM - amazed at some of the stuff that is on there.
 

[frankly frankie]

Yup, that should be fine. You *are* doing the 'safely remove hardware' step ?

Indeed - this would worry me, given that the GPS memory is effectively not write-protected in any way and that includes several files that are effectively 'system' files (such as the basemap, a couple of XML files, your profiles, etc etc).  Not a safe arrangement IMO.
I got a popup message the other day saying there was a problem with drive [Garmin E30] and would I like Windows to 'fix it' - I politely declined!

@fhills - when you place stuff on the SD card it usually requires a reboot of the Garmin for it to register properly and appear in the menus.  In some cases (eg Tracks) it actually copies the information across, so that when you see a list of Tracks in the menu, you aren't actually seeing the Tracks on the SD card, but copies of them that have been placed in the GPS memory banks.

[henshaw11]

Good tip.

I must admit it was only when I removed it once and windoze whinged that it reminded me. Rather daft since I've been working on linux  sdcard drivers for the last several months and have to do the equivalent thing under linux 

GPS memory is effectively not write-protected in any way

I guess that comes with the flexibility of not having to use a dedicated app. to get files on there - which can sometimes be a nuisance regarding drivers. Eg I've an old Creative Zen Usb2 mp3 player - large 60G hard-drive based thing - which I still use as a mp3 repository. I can't use it with win7 'cos there aren't the drivers available for it

A mate with an Oregon reckons you can't actually blow away the basemaps 'cos they're squirrelled away in non-writeable memory - and that could be true of the default version of other system files (eg restored by a complete device reset), but I thought I'd seen something elsewhere to the contrary..then again, what you read on the internet is often worth what you've paid for it I've certainly made a backup of what's on there just in case.

Re reboots  - I thought it was difficult *not* to reboot the thing. Regardless of whether I connect the E30 turned on or off, on 'removing hardware'/unplugging it, it powers off by itself anyway. Or does anyone else have different behaviour ?

[fhills]

Indeed - this would worry me, given that the GPS memory is effectively not write-protected in any way and that includes several files that are effectively 'system' files (such as the basemap, a couple of XML files, your profiles, etc etc).  Not a safe arrangement IMO.

Since it seems to be so simple/maybe daft though, couldn't Garmin just send you any deleted system file etc for you load back on? ie: it wouldn't be permanently bust?

Apologies if I've asked something daft - have done a bit of tinkering with files in my time but am not a techie.

[rwa.martin]

Ok - might have solved it. I have been using the default mapname when builidng the maps using mkgmap. A wordpad edit of the gmapsupp file shows the map name embedded in it - 63240001.img. I changed the mapname on the build and the map is now visible

From the mkgmap documentation.......

--mapname=name Change the name of the map (i.e. the name of the output file). Garmin maps are named by 8 digit numbers - each tile that is loaded into a GPS must have a different mapname. The default is 63240001.img. Enter the number only, not the extension (img), otherwise mkgmap will throw an exception. It is best to change the name if you are going to be making a map for others to use so that it is unique and does not clash with others.

java -jar mkgmap.jar --mapname=12345678 data.osm