Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: Southy on 01 September, 2021, 10:02:39 am
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After dabbling with Triathlon for a few years I am focussing on going back to riding and have just signed up to the Silly Suffolk as it is a local 200 near me.
I'm planning on riding a 300 next year and liked the look of the London Orbital (I was considering 2019 but it clashed with a Tri event). I understand (for obvious reasons) why it has not run for 2020 and 2021 and I know the current situation is making a lot of the longer rides harder to organise, but just wondered whether there are any plans for this making a return in 2022?
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I don't know if Paul was intending to run the Orbital again but unfortunately it looks like it won't be possible for much longer due to the imminent closure of the Gravesend-Tilbury ferry service...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1e8zxeyj15o
This is also a downer for me personally as I have used the ferry to get to rides in Essex in the past.
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I don't know if Paul was intending to run the Orbital again but unfortunately it looks like it won't be possible for much longer due to the imminent closure of the Gravesend-Tilbury ferry service...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1e8zxeyj15o
This is also a downer for me personally as I have used the ferry to get to rides in Essex in the past.
That is indeed a shame. Its a useful river crossing.
The previous operator of the ferry received a massive fine a few years ago. The current vessel has a capacity of 50 passengers. He had considerably more on board. I guess the severity of the fine is because if the boat sinks, once they've pulled 50 people from the water, they won't look for any more. The stupidity of the operator is profound given that where his vessel sails from is right next door to the HQ of The Port of London Authority. :facepalm:
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That’s a real shame. I’ve used the ferry on DIY 400s as well.
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Worth noting that the ferry company do charter operations as well as the 'public' ferry.
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I think Paul has now stopped organising events. The last Orbital in 2019 started from Alfold in order to allow a supporting 200 to use the Southern section (which I took over and now runs from Horsham) but it wasn't very convenient for the carless so the plan from 2020 was to revert to a Chalfont start.
I think the ferry company were OK with the idea of running a bikes only boat in order to allow more riders at a time. Although if they are stopping running the normal ferry that could be out of the question.
There is the option of the Dartford crossing although they might take umbrage at dozens of bikes at a time :-\
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I think Paul has now stopped organising events.
I thought that might be the case but wasn't sure.
There is the option of the Dartford crossing although they might take umbrage at dozens of bikes at a time :-\
Basically, the ferry closing is going to have a massive impact on anyone east of Woolwich who needs to cross the river and doesn't have a car. What a shitshow.
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The Dartford crossing wouldn't be an option.
There are limits on numbers, types of bikes and the times of the crossing.
You have to contact them in advance if there is more than 3 in the group, or if the bike is non standard (Tandem etc). They class non standard as anything that won't go on a regular car bike rack.
It is also only operational between
3am to 9am
10:30am to 2pm
3pm to 9pm
10:30pm to 2am
Owen
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After dabbling with Triathlon for a few years I am focussing on going back to riding and have just signed up to the Silly Suffolk as it is a local 200 near me.
I'm planning on riding a 300 next year and liked the look of the London Orbital (I was considering 2019 but it clashed with a Tri event). I understand (for obvious reasons) why it has not run for 2020 and 2021 and I know the current situation is making a lot of the longer rides harder to organise, but just wondered whether there are any plans for this making a return in 2022?
There is a perm version which I rode in November '22. Assuming you validate by GPX Paul will let you start from any point on the route and ride in either direction.
Living in Harlow I started from there and rode anti-clockwise (the opposite way to the old calendar event). I had a good day out riding it :thumbsup:
I was hoping to ride it again this year but wont have time before the ferry stops at the end of March.
Hopefully it won't be long before another ferry operator is sorted.
Owen
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Slightly different timetable to the Tilbury Ferry and not nearly as nice for the approach/onward trip. https://www.gov.uk/dartford-crossing-bike
RIP annual bike ride from château arabella to my mum's in Canterbury (though I won't miss Chatham Hill).
Opening times
You can use the service 7 days a week, every day of the year, at these times:
3am to 9am
10:30am to 2pm
3pm to 9pm
10:30pm to 2am
There’s no service outside these times.
How long it takes
It usually takes around 15 minutes for the lift to arrive after you’ve called to request a pick up. It might take longer at rush hour or if there’s a traffic jam.
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I won't miss Chatham Hill
It is avoidable, you know! I mean, there's no flat option but there are Varying Degrees of Less Scenic options.
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I last used the ferry on an ECE back from an ACME Winter Series in 2020. It was fun but the ride through Darkest Estuarinea's A roads to get there and through Kent wasn't! I still ended up at Woolwich so will use the foot tunnel next time.
IIRC a similar problem arose when the Humber Bridge replaced the old ferry but you can at least ride (and even get a bus) over it.
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The Dartford crossing wouldn't be an option. [...] You have to contact them in advance if there is more than 3 in the group, or if the bike is non standard (Tandem etc).
whereas our triplet has once travelled on the Tilbury ferry. :(
(also the Harwich foot ferry and the Bawdsey ferry, where the ferryman said that he'd had a quad before!)
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I last used the ferry on an ECE back from an ACME Winter Series in 2020. It was fun but the ride through Darkest Estuarinea's A roads to get there and through Kent wasn't! I still ended up at Woolwich so will use the foot tunnel next time.
IIRC a similar problem arose when the Humber Bridge replaced the old ferry but you can at least ride (and even get a bus) over it.
As long as it's not too late I think. See the hurdles LEL had to go through.
Woolwich FT is notorious for having at least one lift out of order. So be prepared to carry your bike.
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Woolwich FT is notorious for having at least one lift out of order. So be prepared to carry your bike.
Between 9am and 9pm the cable car is running at Greenwich and bikes can be taken. Costs £6 one way, at the weekend you will have to queue
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It looks like the Woolwich ferry is now running at weekends again. It isn't a fast option even if you catch it just right to go straight on, but it's quite fun!
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It looks like the Woolwich ferry is now running at weekends again. It isn't a fast option even if you catch it just right to go straight on, but it's quite fun!
It's also recently gone back to having two ferries running again, which makes a big difference.
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Bikes are now allowed (weekends and off-peak) on both subaqua branches of the DLR, as well as the Elizabeth Line, if you want a more practical / less scenic / less audax rules acceptable option.
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Bikes are now allowed (weekends and off-peak) on both subaqua branches of the DLR, as well as the Elizabeth Line, if you want a more practical / less scenic / less audax rules acceptable option.
Strange elsewhere on the network bikes are not allowed underground. Even between Hendon Central and Colindale (both surface level stations) they are not permitted to use the tunnel.
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Bikes are only banned from tunnels on lines that use the smaller size tube-shaped tube trains.
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It's interesting that the Orbital 300 is still available as a perm as my understanding (also organising perms) is that the route and controls have to be available 24/7*. If you were to divert upstream from either Tilbury or Gravesend and back that would eat away a significant amount of time which presumably counts for no distance like the ferry?
* my perms also use shops which are not open 24/7 but nobody has ridden outside of their normal opening times using paper PoP yet
I believe there is a sportive version of the Orbital but I think it goes all the way back to Tower Bridge and back out
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It is now possible to submit a perm which relies on electronic proof of passage, which allows the use of controls with no receipts etc available.
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It is now possible to submit a perm which relies on electronic proof of passage, which allows the use of controls with no receipts etc available.
yes but in the case of the Orbital it will be significantly overdistance using any alternative to the ferry
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The perm controls are Gravesend and Leaden Roding. Going via the Dartford shuttle would add 8 miles on the south side but save 2 miles on the north side.
A more outlandish manoeuvre would be to take the Ebbsfleet-Stratford International train as a ferry replacement and would save you about 5 km if you take the main road Dunwich Dynamo route.
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I was mulling over the HS1 option myself. You could get it from Gravesend rather than Ebbsfleet. Then from Stratford you can either ride or get the DLR to West Ham, where you can get a C2C train to Tilbury. Simples.
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The perm controls are Gravesend and Leaden Roding.
But assuming you control at Gravesend where do you restart the perm N of the Thames? as soon as you alight from the shuttle?
I've had this conversation with Paul about using the annual IOW 100 as part of a DIY 200; he stated that the ferry back to Pompey is a "cafe which moves" and is part of your riding time but not distance! (I didn't pursue it just rode the 100)
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As you're using the train as a ferry replacement service the fairest thing to do is use only the shortest possible section (Ebbsfleet-Stratford) and ride all the way to/from it.
Checking the audax regulations there's no specific allowance for ferries, but neither is there an explicit baseline directive that you must cycle between controls.
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I'd think that any distance not travelled by human muscular effort, as per AUK rule, you would forfeit the time and only count the shortest distance of the route cycled.
Same as short ferry crossings in Scotland, Lincolnshire and Cornwall.
A 1200km permanent from home to Cork in Ireland, using the ferry crossings as accommodation, has crossed my mind a few times.
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I was mulling over the HS1 option myself. You could get it from Gravesend rather than Ebbsfleet. Then from Stratford you can either ride or get the DLR to West Ham, where you can get a C2C train to Tilbury. Simples.
sounds like it will add at least an hour. If riding as a perm, maybe best to use gravesend/tilbury as the start/finish and remove the crossing time from the equation
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I was mulling over the HS1 option myself. You could get it from Gravesend rather than Ebbsfleet. Then from Stratford you can either ride or get the DLR to West Ham, where you can get a C2C train to Tilbury. Simples.
sounds like it will add at least an hour. If riding as a perm, maybe best to use gravesend/tilbury as the start/finish and remove the crossing time from the equation
How does that work, as you have to finish back at the place you started, not the control over the water!
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Just do a perm route point-to-point, rather than a closed loop?
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Just do a perm route point-to-point, rather than a closed loop?
But the orbital is a closed loop perm!
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Depends whether we're talking about creating a new perm or making the best of the existing one.
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sounds like it will add at least an hour.
Oh yes, at least an hour, probably more like an hour and a half.
It was a flippant suggestion but would be an option if you wanted to stick to the official route controls.
Really, the best thing all round would be if Gravesend/Thurrock councils can get the ferry back in action asap.
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Depends whether we're talking about creating a new perm or making the best of the existing one.
At no point was that suggested.
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If crossing the Thames at Gravesend with a bicycle is so difficult, then I feel no need to include it. PBP vs. actually riding in Paris?
Bank of Thames to bank of Thames is close enough for a London orbit IMHO. You can do whatever you like.