Down Under plagiarism case

[Redlight]

BBC News - Men At Work lose plagiarism case in Australia

Maybe it's just swagger from the publishers' lawyer but 40-60% of the earnings for as little flute flourish that appears between the verses seems a bit excessive when the appeal of the song was, as I recall, a mildly amusing video and the self-mocking lyric. 

Still, remember George Harrison paying out for"copying" three notes of another song (also by a dead composer, tellingly) for My Sweet Lord or George Michael fighting off Barry Manilow's pubishers who argued that Last Christmas plagiarised Can't Smile Without You (if I recall, against Manilow's wishes).   It often seems that the most tenuous claims are brought by publishing companies while artists themselves are more relaxed about the similarities between songs.

[mrcharly-YHT]

40-60% of royalties is a bit much, but the flute riff is the most iconic bit of music in the song.

The song pretty much became the unofficial national anthem, particularly after Bondie's boat won the americas cup back in the 80s.

[clarion]

*obligatory reference to criminals and Australians omitted*

[Kathy]

They played the two different bits of music on the news this morning. Now, I readily admit I'm tone-deaf and hard-of-hearing, but I thought they sounded nothing like each other. 

[Moloko]

*obligatory reference to criminals and Australians omitted*

*He just smiled and gave Clarion a Vegemite sandwich*

[clarion]

Gah!

*splutter*

Yerrcchhh!

You trying to poison me?

[nicknack]

"It's a big win for the underdog," said Larrikin's lawyer Adam Simpson after the judgment.

Is it fuck.

It's a victory for a publishing company and lawyers.

The judgement's bollocks. I don't recall any action ever being taken against jazz players who frequently quote popular tunes in their solos. They don't make enough money for the leeches to be interested. If it was all about the principle of the thing there'd be writs flying around like confetti. Only ever about money for the men in suits. Fuckin' artist has been dead 20 years.

[mrcharly-YHT]

They played the two different bits of music on the news this morning. Now, I readily admit I'm tone-deaf and hard-of-hearing, but I thought they sounded nothing like each other.  

All that is altered is that the Down under version is considerably speeded up and the emphasis on notes is changed. Otherwise they are identical, and that was deliberate.

I think the australian general public agrees with nicknack. I predict an avalanche of indi groups ripping off 'kookaburra' and sticking a finger in the air at the music publishers.

[Charlotte]

Copytheft is almost always bollocks.

This is just a bunch of opportunistic, litigious music industry knobcheeses who got lucky on a lawsuit.

[nicknack]

I confidently expect Men At Work's lawyers to trawl through the works of Bach, Haydn, Mozart, etc. to find where Marion Sinclair pinched the riff from.

[Tourist Tony]

Na, keeping it Australian, compare the AC/DC riff from "Beating Around the Bush" with the Mac's "Oh Well"

[bobb]

I confidently expect Men At Work's lawyers to trawl through the works of Bach, Haydn, Mozart, etc. to find where Marion Sinclair pinched the riff from.

Fuck that - loads of bands have stolen stuff I wrote in my bedroom when I was 14!!

[Redlight]

Copytheft is almost always bollocks.

This is just a bunch of opportunistic, litigious music industry knobcheeses who got lucky on a lawsuit.

I'd agree with the second statement but challenge the first. I think we do need robust protection of copyright. Artists have bills to pay too and, in the case of professional pop composers (i.e. non-performers) don't have the ability to reap in the real dough that comes from touring and merchandising. An acquaintance of mine, for example, relies on royalties from a handful of songs he wrote in the '70s to pay for his parents' carers.  Similarly, authors need their work protected from pirating.  But I do object to cases like this one, and the other two I mentioned in the OP, where the original creator, or his/her descendents, is no longer losing out and it's just some smart-alec at a publishing company. (Incidentally, I read somewhere else that this action began only after someone commented on the similarities between the tunes on a tv quiz show 20 years after the record came out, which shows how concerned the original composer (died in 1998) was.)

[Moloko]

Sitting in a gum tree whilst playing that "riff" won't ever help their protests against any money grabbing leeches.

[Flying_Monkey]

It's deliberate, it's a reference / tribute / variation of. This is how art works. Remember, the composer is dead. This is simply a company trying to make money. And yes, the judgement is rubbish, and I hope the band appeal.

[spesh]

Na, keeping it Australian, compare the AC/DC riff from "Beating Around the Bush" with the Mac's "Oh Well"

The very thought occured to me the first time I listened to the Highway To Hell album. 

I did see a comment in the media this week which was along the lines of there being only so many ways that you can string together a sequence of music notes, so it's inevitable that you'll get round to listening to a track and think, "now where have I heard that before?"

Leaving aside the more literal borrowing of riffs/tunes and lyrics in jazz and blues (check out early Led Zep for example), musicians are probably subliminally influenced by what they have listened to when they are writing music/throwing riffs together. It might be some time later, if at all, that any similarities dawn on them.

[rogerzilla]

The problem is that there are only so many melodies you can wring out of a musical scale.  As time goes on this sort of thing becomes more and more inevitable.  Of the really blatant ones, did Right Said Fred ever pay Jimi Hendrix's estate for borrowing the riff from "3rd Stone From The Sun"?

[andygates]

It's deliberate, it's a reference / tribute / variation of. This is how art works.

This.

Culture is reuse.  It's a simmering pot of delicious stew: the same lumps of carrot come up again and again.

[rogerzilla]

It's deliberate, it's a reference / tribute / variation of. This is how art works.

This.

Culture is reuse.  It's a simmering pot of delicious stew: the same lumps of carrot come up again and again.

Sounds more like regurgitated vomit 

[Jaded]

The problem is that there are only so many melodies you can wring out of a musical scale.  As time goes on this sort of thing becomes more and more inevitable.  Of the really blatant ones, did Right Said Fred ever pay Jimi Hendrix's estate for borrowing the riff from "3rd Stone From The Sun"?

Or even for stealing the name of the band...

[Redlight]

It's deliberate, it's a reference / tribute / variation of. This is how art works.

This.

Culture is reuse.  It's a simmering pot of delicious stew: the same lumps of carrot come up again and again.

If my stew had culture in it I would probably throw it away.

[clarion]

And certainly if it contained carrots that had come up again

[RJ]

It's deliberate, it's a reference / tribute / variation of. This is how art works.

This.

Culture is reuse.  It's a simmering pot of delicious stew: the same lumps of carrot come up again and again.

Well, *I* like that metaphor.  Better than my convergent evolution defence, m'lud.