After effects of longer Audaxes

[jamesld8]

Just wondering how others feel day (s) after longer (ie more than 200s) Audaxes with prospect of PBP looming when my schedule could be 500 +400+300.

After recent 300s, 400s and a 600 I `ve had feelings of being washed out, digestive issues, sometimes a loss of appetite, very tired (no surprise after minimal sleep ) and continuing dehydration. basically lots normal functions disrupted..Just wonder whether other `normal` auks (ie mid range steadier riders, not the supermen) experience the same and how I can then deal with potential PBP schedule and days after event?

ta

[Peter]

Ithink you just have to hope that adrenaline will get you through.  I'm guessing that re-hydration is important, though you probably don't feel like it at the time.  Audax is not a normal human activity, or, at least, it isn't at the longer distances.  I've only gone as far as 600 and that only once.  Somebody who has more experience will be along in a minute.  Good luck anyway!

[sojournermike]

Just wondering how others feel day (s) after longer (ie more than 200s) Audaxes with prospect of PBP looming when my schedule could be 500 +400+300.

After recent 300s, 400s and a 600 I `ve had feelings of being washed out, digestive issues, sometimes a loss of appetite, very tired (no surprise after minimal sleep ) and continuing dehydration. basically lots normal functions disrupted..Just wonder whether other `normal` auks (ie mid range steadier riders, not the supermen) experience the same and how I can then deal with potential PBP schedule and days after event?

ta

Washed out, tired and dehydrated don't surprise me. Your body grabs water to fill inflamed/damaged muscle, which is pretty much all of the motor.muscles if you do enough. In marathon runners there's evidence of damage to heart muscle too as a result of competition . The symptoms of  loss of appetite and funny tummy are also entirely credibly normal.

The impact really depends on your load tolerance, modifiable with training, and the level of sustained exertion undertaken. There is evidence that sustained high intensity endurance exercise is bad for heart health. Moderate levels are, of course, positive . The shocking thing to me was how low the life cumulative dose appears to be before damage is possible.

As an aside, it's interesting compare the impact of a speed session consisting of a dozen short, very high intensity reps with a long long run or ride. The speed session can leave you feeling very sore and stiff, but energised. A very long day out can sap energy for a.few.days and give a general feeling of malaise. Extreme cases, but worth considering.

Mike

[hellymedic]

Many people will feel 'washed out'.
Some will have digestive issues.
I got THE HUNGER midweek.
Some get fluid retention - I had a 4kg weight swing once - and can get swollen ankles.

[jamesld8]

Interesting Mike what you`ve said about damaged muscles and fluid needs; after this w/e 400 a couple hours after finishing I felt I was properly hydrated--having drunk about 10 pints liquid during riding and 3 beers after finishing---, but next day felt quite dehydrated and was drinking a lot of liquid. Muscles really sore too and stiff until 48 hr later and a gentle cycle ride seemed sort that out.
Also when a couple years ago I rode a 300km too fast for my comfort I felt truly dreadful, almost nauseously weak,  for several days after so a sort of cumulative effect of long distance and intense effort was not good   

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Long rides are quite different to medium rides like 400s and 600s. I think I'm somewhere in the teens for 1000+km brevets and the third day is virtually always better than the second (contact issues aside). There are a few creaks and groans when you get on the bike but an hour in and everything hums along surprisingly well. Possibly the body finally realises that complaining to the brain is a waste of time and just gets on with the job of turning the pedals.

[caerau]

ie mid range steadier riders, not the supermen

Well being (allegedly) Man O' Steel - I'll have to keep schtum here 

[Ian H]

Fitness/speed has a bearing.  The nearer you are to maximum effort (and for longer), the longer you'll take to recover.  There's also a learning curve dealing with the up and downs of your body over prolonged exertion, knowing when to ease off and when to push on. 

[vorsprung]

J I `ve had feelings of being washed out, digestive issues, sometimes a loss of appetite, very tired (no surprise after minimal sleep ) and continuing dehydration.

if you were in the middle of a ride then you'd rest, eat even if not hungry and drink

so just do that

Personally I find that a hot bath asap after a 600 helps no end.

[caerau]

Or alternatively, back on planet reality, you describe pretty much exactly how I feel now.  Not that that's any great insight.

[jamesld8]

Or alternatively, back on planet reality, you describe pretty much exactly how I feel now.  Not that that's any great insight.

but it is reassuring that I`m not alone feeling that way ! and it seems many others do too. It is after all just a bit on pushing towards the extreme demands on a normal human body to do what very many regard as strenuous exercise for a prolonged period with sod all sleep ( eg nil on 400, 1 .5 hours last 600).

[Ian H]

Or alternatively, back on planet reality, you describe pretty much exactly how I feel now.  Not that that's any great insight.

but it is reassuring that I`m not alone feeling that way ! and it seems many others do too. It is after all just a bit on pushing towards the extreme demands on a normal human body to do what very many regard as strenuous exercise for a prolonged period with sod all sleep ( eg nil on 400, 1 .5 hours last 600).

Practice makes perfect:  on my first 600 (the Bryan Chapman), back in 93, I managed an hour's sleep. Last time I rode it (2 years ago?) I got about 5.  This year, on a flatter 600, I had a B&B and 7.5 hrs.  I don't think I'm fitter/faster now than I was 23 years ago, so I've somehow become more energy-efficient.

[Von Broad]

Fitness/speed has a bearing.  The nearer you are to maximum effort (and for longer), the longer you'll take to recover. 

That sums me up. If my legs don't burn for a week after a 600 then things are not normal!
I'm sure it's not necessarily good for somebody like me [meaning - for somebody who does no cycling during the week, and little at the weekend] to suddenly turn up for a 200km [never mind anything longer!] and expect to put in a respectable performance from nothing. It's a big hit to the system, you're asking a lot of your body, so it's not surprising my legs will burn and ache for about a week after these kinds of rides.

Or alternatively, back on planet reality, you describe pretty much exactly how I feel now.  Not that that's any great insight.

but it is reassuring that I`m not alone feeling that way ! and it seems many others do too. It is after all just a bit on pushing towards the extreme demands on a normal human body to do what very many regard as strenuous exercise for a prolonged period with sod all sleep ( eg nil on 400, 1 .5 hours last 600).

That's part of the purpose of the qualifying rides [and if you're sensible in preparation....more long rides on top of those too] to see how you shape up in the face of those challenges, and it's important to look at how you respond over that period. As regards PBP, I remember in 2011, about half way round I probably had about 2 hours in hand. Not a lot, but I was in the gutter, so I had no problem in using those 2 hrs for sleep, so in effect starting again as regards time...but with that valuable rest, albeit only 2 hrs, but worth every minute of it.

[Von Broad]

and 3 beers after finishing---

I love beer....but I find that if I start drinking too soon after a long Audax that has really taken me to the edge of what I'm capable of and left me utterly depleted, then it really exacerbates recovery. The body's looking to recover, and alcohol doesn't help me one iota - it just seems to pull me deeper into tired, exhausted state that takes longer to come back from. It's also has a tendency to dehydrate of course.

Protein drinks soon after you finish might help.
wilkiboy was talking about this somewhere I read recently.

[citoyen]

There is evidence that sustained high intensity endurance exercise is bad for heart health.

This is something I find very interesting. Since I've been using a heart rate monitor on long rides, I've been amazed at how my heart rate changes over the duration - I try to keep the average below 140bpm in the early stages, but by the end it's down well below that anyway, seemingly regardless of how hard I ride. I suspect this is not a good thing.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

There is evidence that sustained high intensity endurance exercise is bad for heart health.

This is something I find very interesting. Since I've been using a heart rate monitor on long rides, I've been amazed at how my heart rate changes over the duration - I try to keep the average below 140bpm in the early stages, but by the end it's down well below that anyway, seemingly regardless of how hard I ride. I suspect this is not a good thing.

I don't have a heart rate monitor but there was a detailed article in Arrive several years ago that reported the same thing.  I have a feeling, based on my experiences, rather than detailed medical knowledge, that once the body recognises that carbs will be scarce it regulates the output to avoid excessive carb burning unless necessary.  For me, when I'm fit, the switchover is about 8 hours into the ride, when I find it suddenly hard going.  BY 12 hours I've got used to the situation and ride steady state.

Going back to James's original question, unlike banging your head against a brick wall, it hurts when you stop.  The real hurt, delayed onset muscle soreness takes a day or so to properly set in, so on PBP, where your stops are typically no more than 5 hours, you will start the stage after a night stop stiff (and you might waddle around the control) but it won't be too bad until after the finish. 

The digestive things are different and here its really difficult to find a memory, but I've discovered quite a few riders take antacids such as Gaviscon to balance the stomach.  I've used Gavilast to good effect on PBP.  Afterwards my digestive system can be a bit rough (with or without antacids) - that's primarily because (on PBP) my stomach has had 70+ hours of abuse, of eating at unusual times, of getting on the bike before the food is properly digested, etc, etc.  I think it comes with the territory and only a few lucky individuals are genuinely free from stomach troubles. Swiss Hat is one rider who always me with his ability to absorb three separate meals in about ten minutes.  Teethgrinder is another to ask, when he's finished riding 200 miles a day.

[Chinaski]

This is only my second year riding audax so keep that in mind 

On physical effects I've tapered down my training quite and bit compared to last year. Rather than countless hours of slow riding for training I've shortened length of rides but upped intensity, allowing me more time for rest, recovery and mobility/strength work.

For year to date I'be only ridden circa 4000km which includes  2 400km rides, a 600km and at a 200km ride every other month.

Riding lots of low intensity miles for training leaves me tired whereas this method leaves me fresh for events and stronger than last year.

On food I never have an issue; I eat HFLC and do a lot of fasted training which allows me to eat very little on audax rides. Below is a summary of a 400km ride in May. Eating a lot and riding a lot doesn't suit me hence why i chose this way of running. My appetite after this type of event for at least two days is huge; the hypothalamus and leptin etc will have it's way!

" Just a note on a 400km ride on Saturday. 17h 40 total time on bike with just under 16h pedalling.

While I think calorie counting is a blind alley, at least without carefully consideration of macros and micros, I did it for Saturday for an experiment.

According to Strava 7,500 calories used on bike. (Pinch of salt of course, do I add maintenance calories to that?)

Skipped breakfast and between fruit, offal meat eggs and 500 ml sports drink and a snickers I consumed 1950 calories by finish.

Felt really good at end. I kept eating a little even though not hungry for last 150km, however my body didn't want me putting food in. Despite feeling perfect nuts, banana and snickers caused me to gag. Nothing other than Drisheen causes a similar reaction. I never have got that before. No idea why"

[citoyen]

Dehydration?

It's not just drinking enough water though - I've found that adding electrolytes to my bidon (I use High5 Zero tabs, others use Nuun) makes a BIG difference to my ability to eat on longer rides.

[T42]

Which electrolyte source makes a big difference.  On a 300k last year I used Isostar tablets, which are slightly effervescent and only slightly sweet.  By the time I reached 200k I had a howling dose of the knock: trembling, palpitations, nausea, gungy mouth, short temper, the lot.

The cause, as I found out when I got home, was that the Isostar tablets use aspartame as a sweetener.  Aspartame fools your metabolism into reacting to sweetness by secreting insulin, and if there's no sugar there for it to work on it eventually yanks your blood sugar level through the floor. The knock also kills your appetite, making you feel as if eating would make you vomit.

I remembered all this, of course, at around km 500 of our weekend 600, when I made exactly the same error again.  Force-fed my face with crystallized ginger and all was well.

Anyway, watch out for artificial sweeteners: they have no place in a sports drink.

[hellymedic]

What had you eaten, T42? It's very easy to get behind your carbohydrate needs with or without aspartame.

[Lady Cavendish]

Am I the only person who doesn't lose their appetite and just wants to eat a ridiculous amount of food??!

[hellymedic]

Am I the only person who doesn't lose their appetite and just wants to eat a ridiculous amount of food??!

No.
If I've been far too hot or had a recent tummy bug I can be off food though.

[Ningishzidda]

When you can take a day off work on a Wednesday, get up at 04:00 to start a perm 300 at 05:00, getting back at 21:00 and get up and go to work the next day, you’re ready for two days off work to ride a 400.

[LEE]

Loss of appetite following a long Audax is absolutely NOT a problem I have.  I can eat anything and everything (and usually do) for about 3 days afterwards.

I think I dehydrated on the Kirtons 600 at the weekend.  I put that down to stupidly forgetting to pack my HIGH-5 Zero.  I find it makes it easier to keep drinking. 

It's important to note that drinking plain water can make matters worse in some circumstances, when salts are low for example.  I don't think that was my issue though (because I never cramped), I just didn't drink often enough.

The main effect I notice is a general tiredness and feeling run down, weary.  That's hardly surprising given the physical demands and lack of proper sleep. I'm fairly sure it leaves me open to illness so I tend to slob out for a week and drink lots of water, fruit smoothies, eat lots of protein..etc.

Just staying awake for the same amount of time I do during a 600 would leave me feeling a bit weary, add to that the 14,000 calories Strava reckons I burned in 38 hours and it's clear you put great demands on your metabolism.

[Aunt Maud]

Am I the only person who doesn't lose their appetite and just wants to eat a ridiculous amount of food??!

No, me  neither, I managed to easily eat three full English fry ups on a recent 400. I found that I didn't have any problems with digesting half a pig and the weekly output of three Bantams whilst cycling either.

I'm a big fan of Focaccia, ham, mozzarella and tomato feasts and if I let you look in my Carradice at the start of a ride, that's pretty much what you'll find.

I don't get on with sweets, coke, cake or coffee when riding though, but I do love a shandy and those great big, easy to peel oranges. It takes me a week to get over a 600 though, but I'm generally ok for riding the next day.