Day 2/3 tactics

[alwyn]

As we continue to plan LEL2025, a small challenge for riders is beginning to emerge.

In previous editions, many riders stopped at either Brampton or Moffat on night 2, allowing themselves the day to enjoy a loop of Scotland. However our new route throws a bit of a spanner in the works. Our new control in Hawick, effectively displacing Moffat some 75km, is rather smaller than we'd like it to be. I reckon we can squeeze 150 beds into the venue, but only if we first clear out the space of tables and chairs for use during the day.

This will put even more pressure on Brampton as a result. So to mitigate this we've put a few things in place.

- Removing the 100 hour group will free up some 250 highly desirable start slots from 05:00. This should encourage more of you to not only press on to Malton on night 1, but beyond Brampton on night 2.
- We're maxing out the space for beds in Brampton. We've hired some high-quality marquees with flooring and heating, as well as bringing in two more halls at the school as dormitories.
- We've arranged a pop-up dormitory at Newcastleton, between Brampton and Hawick. This will be first-come-first served, and will have few facilities other than loos and a light breakfast in the morning. There are public showers available over the road. The Olive Tree, just round the corner, will be open during the event.
- The bag drop rules have changed a little. You can now choose one control in England and one in Scotland for your bag drops. This should make Brampton a less attractive option for honeypotting.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

One observation from PBP this year that might help.  I followed the same strategy as I had in 2011 and 2015 (I didn't enter the 2019 edition), in the 80-hour group, with the aim of arriving at Brest by dusk, having a good night's sleep, and then enjoying the return.  In those two years, I didn't have a problem getting a dormitory space.  This year, although I arrived at about the same time, the dorms were full (I ended up sleeping under a chair behind a pool table - not quite shades of Eskdalemuir on LEL2009 but heading in that direction).  There were a lot more 90-hour riders that had been able to push on to Brest.

Speeds amongst faster (not really fast) riders seemed to be higher; this may be that a much greater proportion of riders are now equipped with aero-bars, which, in my experience, does make a significant difference to speed.  It made Brest a bit more like Carhaix in terms of being stretched; it certainly wasn't equipped for the greater influx of riders. 

Not having ridden LEL last time (30th wedding anniversary clash) the trend might already have been there, but may be worthwhile considering. 

[LittleWheelsandBig]

There was more of a push for PBP23 riders to get to Brest before sleeping because the Brest time limit was reduced by a couple of hours.

[Flâneur]

I think you've got the wrong Chapelknowe Village Hall on the list on the website? Should be the Canonbie-ish one maybe rather than the Wishae one (if the route goes that way?)

[alwyn]

I think you've got the wrong Chapelknowe Village Hall on the list on the website? Should be the Canonbie-ish one maybe rather than the Wishae one (if the route goes that way?)

I think you're right. Duly zapped (for now).

[Flâneur]

The reason Brampton is a bag-drop honey pot is that it's the first 'double' control, visited on both up and down legs. A bag there has double the utility of a bag at a 'single' control. All the Scottish controls are, yet again, single visit. And Hawick and Eskdalemuir cannot accommodate bag drop so realistically the gaps between bag drop locations are 470km/580km/724km northbound, Edinburgh at 800, then 842/942/1052 southbound.

On this setup, I think Brampton's still going to be a pretty big honeypot, maybe with even bulkier bags than before.

[alfapete]

The reason Brampton is a bag-drop honey pot is that it's the first 'double' control, visited on both up and down legs. A bag there has double the utility of a bag at a 'single' control.

I think you're probably right there

[Lightning Phil]

It’s also before the more remote and possibly wetter and colder legs through the Borders.  Thus a good location for pick up and drop off of layers  to deal with that.  Plus it used to be 300km ish Brampton to Brampton, thus perfect for a day of cycling and back for a sleep and change of clothes.

A combination of distance along route, terrain before / after, and length of Scottish loop making it a honeypot.

[αdαmsκι]

The overnight use of school and hostel in Alston in 2017 was fricking amazing. I assume that isn't a possibility for future events? I ask because it helps to reduce the numbers sleeping at Brampton.

Last year I did
Day 1 midday start and went to Hessel Premier Inn
Day 2 to Moffat
Day 3 crazy long day back to Barney as I predicted Brampton would be rammo

That worked well but I appreciate it isn't the plan many would want to implement

[alwyn]

The overnight use of school and hostel in Alston in 2017 was fricking amazing. I assume that isn't a possibility for future events? I ask because it helps to reduce the numbers sleeping at Brampton.

It certainly is! We'll use the school as a pop-up dorm. No catering beforehand but a light breakfast in the morning to get you to Brampton/The Nook/Alston.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

It would be interesting to learn from people who had stayed in the likes of St Nicholas du Pelem on PBP - which weren't full controls but offered sleeping facilities.

[alanburke]

It would be interesting to learn from people who had stayed in the likes of St Nicholas du Pelem on PBP - which weren't full controls but offered sleeping facilities.

I slept there. It was 'smaller' than the other controls, fewer food options. No bike mechanic, iirc.
But otherwise, as good as the others.

[Flâneur]

Revisiting bag drops

I see alwyn has said on Facebook that 40% of all bag drops in 2022 were to Brampton (so presumably 80% of riders utilising bag drops sent a bag there, maybe more if some sent just 1 bag), which is certainly sobering

However, I struggle to see any scenario where Edinburgh doesn't become the new Brampton in bag drop terms - potentially 50% of bags split over 3 Scottish controls, Edinburgh and Innerleithen quite close together, Edinburgh will be approximately equidistant from whatever English bag drop a rider selects

Perhaps Gracemount HS is better able to handle large numbers of bags, but I could easily see 30-40% of total bags going there

The restrictions on bag drop location also seem a little at variance with the maximal TLC ideal that's driving the other changes...

[alwyn]

Revisiting bag drops

I see alwyn has said on Facebook that 40% of all bag drops in 2022 were to Brampton (so presumably 80% of riders utilising bag drops sent a bag there, maybe more if some sent just 1 bag), which is certainly sobering

However, I struggle to see any scenario where Edinburgh doesn't become the new Brampton in bag drop terms - potentially 50% of bags split over 3 Scottish controls, Edinburgh and Innerleithen quite close together, Edinburgh will be approximately equidistant from whatever English bag drop a rider selects

Perhaps Gracemount HS is better able to handle large numbers of bags, but I could easily see 30-40% of total bags going there

The restrictions on bag drop location also seem a little at variance with the maximal TLC ideal that's driving the other changes...

It does look at variance, but I honestly think a little tough love now will make for a smoother and better event overall.

What I'm also planning is for controls to sell the sort of things people commonly put into bags, so you won't need to be quite so self-reliant. Inner tubes, inflator cartridges, sachets of bike oil and chamois cream, hydration tablets, energy gels, snack bars etc. We're also exploring charging and powerbank options so we don't have to lug hundreds of batteries around for you.

And yes, some 80% of riders with bag drops chose Brampton. Another 40% chose Hessle. A lot of people dropped two bags at Brampton too. Brampton is a relatively small control and the new route practically begs people to plan to stay there.

[slugbait]

I'm one of the riders who only choose Brampton for a (single) drop bag. It contained oatmeal bars, a spare power bank and a set of clothes. There was such an abundance of food and power sockets at the controls that I only needed the drop bag for the clothes. Next time my drop bag will contain much less, especially if I can know that purchasing additional food and charging devices won't be an issue at the controls.

[John Stonebridge]

Do the control closing times on LEL operate on 12kph throughout or does it taper down (15kph up to 600 then a byzantine arrangement thereafter) a la PBP? 

If its the former then Edinburgh - now a good bit further on (or farther as the AUK website would say) would I think close around 0640 Weds for a 1200 starter thus being attractive for a kip for a decent chunk of the field, thus possibly inducing even more Edinburgh bag drops. 

If it tapers then (based on Loudeac at PBP 782km so not far off Auld Reekie's 800km) it would close in around 55hrs so much much earlier - by my arithmetic 1900 Tuesday thus ruling it out as a Tuesday night sleep stop and making bag drops there less likely.

Of course you're going to say that riders shouldn't sail so close to the wind on closing times when only just over half way, but it might influence some in 2025 in a way that it hasnt previously. 

Caveat - Ive never ridden LEL and am perfectly open to the possibility that Im talking pish.   

[Flâneur]

LEL 22 was a constant 12.15km/h (1519km/125 hours) on the brevet card.

Additional time was allocated just before the off due to diversions.

[Fidgetbuzz]

The pattern was  as far as I recall ..  know the distance and the time allowance , when it was the LRM defined limit ( irrespective of actual distance ) .. and spread that time over the total distance.

I believe that LRM now allow extra time for extra distance , which rather belatedly helped the LEL 2022 total time allowance. Assuming this to be true for 2025 then I would expect Danial to do an exact time allocation over the control distances. BUT I am not only not the boss , but not even involved this time .. so treat my comment with care.

[scarlet]

- Removing the 100 hour group will free up some 250 highly desirable start slots from 05:00. This should encourage more of you to not only press on to Malton on night 1, but beyond Brampton on night 2.

- The bag drop rules have changed a little. You can now choose one control in England and one in Scotland for your bag drops. This should make Brampton a less attractive option for honeypotting.

I think my plan for LEL would be similar to PBP where I was in the 84h group; ride ~400-440km on day 1, ride 350-ish day 2, 325 day3. I think this is pretty common for the 84h group - and it ties in well with the start times on offer at LEL. This creates a bit of a dilemma; Malton is a bit short, Richmond too far. 106km between those checkpoints is a lot. It does strike me there is likely to be high demand for beds on night 1 at Malton, much higher than the 350 on offer. But I may be overestimating how many people will want to ride 364 on day 1.

Day 2 (assuming night 1 at Malton) pretty much has to be Moffatt for me.

For day 3, I am stuck in the same dilemma as day 1; Richmond is a bit short (but I'll be tired); Malton is probably too far - but I could have a bag there.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

That's a good observation.  Any long gap between controls will have an influence on sleep strategy.  On the Mille Miglia in 2010, there was a very long gap between controls that offered accommodation after Pomonte (840km).  That clumped the riders - I arrived there at 8pm and stopped because I didn't fancy 140+km on sketchy roads.

[coops456]

For day 3, I am stuck in the same dilemma as day 1; Richmond is a bit short (but I'll be tired); Malton is probably too far - but I could have a bag there.

And weather is the big unknown - a nice tailwind will see more people pushing on to e.g. Malton. These are the things that make Danial's planning so incredibly challenging 

[madcow]

In 2022,I found the Barnard Castle to Malton stretch to be the most challenging, particularly after Northallerton.
The first signs of sleep deprivation and the constantly undulating terrain meant that roads that I would confidently navigate in daylight were positively disorientating . As a result,I grovelled my way into Malton school at some unearthly hour, when most of the control staff were in bed.
My abiding lesson from 2022 was to stop and rest before you feel totally out of it. An hour or two of shut eye in a control is far better than attempting to kip on wet grass.
Unlike PBP , there are very few pop up roadside stalls with coffee etc. to keep you going.