LEJOG: 03-08 JULY 2022

[Phil W]

Comparison is fairly easy... one is a fully catered ride, where all you have to worry about is to ride from A to B every day, the other is a ride where you have to worry about everything else too (logistics, luggage, mechanicals along the way, as well as collecting receipts for validation... )
And of course you are riding the same route in half the time, so roughly twice the daily mileage

Another big difference is the cost. Today I was sent an email from the organisers of RAB warning me that prices will rise after 31st Jan and that 80% of places have now all gone - they currently sell for 1799GBP a pop - see details https://www.rideacrossbritain.com/packages/individual-entry/!

a big chunk of the extra cost is extra time. Riding in 9 days means twice as many overnight stops. If RAB ran at randonneu pace it could be less than £1000, but I guess most people dont want to do 300km every day.

I thought they used tents on RAB, £200 a night for camping.

And food, transport, support, etc

Transport, I thought they were cycling LEJOG. £200 of food a day is also rather a lot. Cut to the chase we know RAB makes a tidy profit. Nothing wrong with that, it’s a commercial venture. Just like Andy’s lejog isnt.

321 back in the room.

[Andy Corless]

Crikey I've just seen the price of the RAB version: £1799 for camping or £2399 for hotels (that's apparently 8-nights though but doesn't give the star rating). I think I'll stick with the £146! Places have been increased to 200.

Andy Corless

[j.bob]

Hi all,

About 14 of us from Brothers on Bikes CC have signed up. We're all a little puzzled with the 2 bag drops. How does this work exactly?

Also noticed there will be breakfast, great! And there will be food at least one control per day. Is this the overnight control every day? Or will it be another etc?

Sorry to be a pain!
Thanks
JBoB

[Phil W]

Hi all,

About 14 of us from Brothers on Bikes CC have signed up. We're all a little puzzled with the 2 bag drops. How does this work exactly?

Also noticed there will be breakfast, great! And there will be food at least one control per day. Is this the overnight control every day? Or will it be another etc?

Sorry to be a pain!
Thanks
JBoB

Andy will be along in a minute I'm sure.

Generally with bag drops you get a gym sized draw string bag like many used to have at school.   Into it you'll be able to fit a change of clothes.  You give these bags to the organiser at the start and then the bags are transported to the bag drop locations.  These locations will be one or two of the controls.  When you reach those controls you then have a fresh set of cycling kit etc. to change into.    Then at the end of the ride the bags are returned to you.  Make sure you have a plastic bag in them for any smellies.

[Ajax Bay]

About 14 of us from Brothers on Bikes CC have signed up. We're all a little puzzled with the 2 bag drops. How does this work exactly?
Also noticed there will be breakfast, great! And there will be food at least one control per day. Is this the overnight control every day? Or will it be another etc?

As Phil says, Andy will be along.
You will be able to designate which two overnight locations/controls you want each of the two bags to go to. Hand them in at registration/start and they will be there when you arrive. Work on 5 litres/3kg. Make them esoteric so easier to spot among 100+ bags. He says: "Drop bag to 2 of the overnight controls, an opportunity for riders to collect clean clothes etc will help ensure everyone makes it through this randonnee. Your drop-bags will later be transferred to John o’Groats ready for collection on arrival."
The overnight controls "will have adequate shower & sleeping facilities" and be at:
Churchill, Somerset: 287 km [assumed: Mendip Activity Centre]
Warrington, Cheshire: 580 km
Abington, South Lanarkshire: 854 km
Inverness, Highland: 1207 km
(Long old Day 4).
Having picked up your bags at the finish, think how you will carry them/the contents if riding across to Thurso or back down to Wick/Inverness.
Provided food is at overnight controls only (see below).
"All food & drink at the overnight controls is included"
"Entry fee includes:
    Breakfast before the start (typically cereal/toast, tea/coffee/juice etc)
    Food & drink at at least 4 of the controls
    Sleeping facilities at 4 of the expected overnight controls"
Andy has separately said that there will be a mix of bunks and air beds.
Having helped run/man the overnight control on another of Andy's rides (3 nights running) food will be available 'all the time' with menu in the evening likely to include baked potatoes, pasta (various) and baked beans (eg on toast); menu moving on to typical (non-fried) breakfast fare pre-dawn. May see you all at the first overnight.

[Wycombewheeler]

I thought Abington had changed to Paisley increasing day 3 and reducing day 4

2 drop bags to chosen locations is an assumption. It could just as easily be one drop bag each, all transported to 2 locations as determined by the organiser.

I hope 5litres is not the expected size, considering this is not an out and back or circular route, so will need civies for travelling to penzance and from john o groats. I dont really want to spend all day on public transport in lycra and SPDs

[Phil W]

I thought Abington had changed to Paisley increasing day 3 and reducing day 4

2 drop bags to chosen locations is an assumption. It could just as easily be one drop bag each, all transported to 2 locations as determined by the organiser.

I hope 5litres is not the expected size, considering this is not an out and back or circular route, so will need civies for travelling to penzance and from john o groats. I dont really want to spend all day on public transport in lycra and SPDs

Having 1 drop bag two locations would make movement of drop bag logistically more challenging. As Andy and his helpers would need to know which riders had been through before potentially transporting bags in multiple trips to the other location during event. Just taking separate bags to each location at the start of event, then moving bags to finish after all riders have been through / control closes, is much easier.

[Ajax Bay]

I thought Abington had changed to Paisley increasing day 3 and reducing day 4

2 drop bags to chosen locations is an assumption. It could just as easily be one drop bag each, all transported to 2 locations as determined by the organiser.

I hope 5litres is not the expected size, considering this is not an out and back or circular route, so will need civies for travelling to penzance and from john o groats. I dont really want to spend all day on public transport in lycra and SPDs

Andy has very recently updated the Event Information page: https://lejog1400audax.com/event-information/
and that lists the first control as 'Churchill' - it's half way between Sandford and Churchill (assumed) BS25 5PQ.
So I guess he aspired to change N3 from Abington to Paisley but that hasn't happened.
See what you mean by drop bag text interpretation "Drop bag to 2 of the overnight controls,  . . .  Your drop-bags will later be transferred to John o’Groats ready for collection on arrival." One bag sequentially to two controls (?designated by who?) and then to the finish seems more workable. 10 litres then, perhaps. The yellow PBP bags might just take 5 litres; the LEL ones maybe 7? Why would one need civvies for travelling down to Land's End? What do you think normal unsupported riders do? Wear some shoes you're about to throw out and dump them at Penzance railway station. Same with an old top. Getting back from JoG I posted a shoebox with shoes, socks, T-shirt and shorts to the far north (capacity about 6 litres) so I could travel in comfortable, clean clothes.

[Wycombewheeler]

I thought Abington had changed to Paisley increasing day 3 and reducing day 4

2 drop bags to chosen locations is an assumption. It could just as easily be one drop bag each, all transported to 2 locations as determined by the organiser.

I hope 5litres is not the expected size, considering this is not an out and back or circular route, so will need civies for travelling to penzance and from john o groats. I dont really want to spend all day on public transport in lycra and SPDs

Andy has very recently updated the Event Information page: https://lejog1400audax.com/event-information/
and that lists the first control as 'Churchill' - it's half way between Sandford and Churchill (assumed) BS25 5PQ.
So I guess he aspired to change N3 from Abington to Paisley but that hasn't happened.
See what you mean by drop bag text interpretation "Drop bag to 2 of the overnight controls,  . . .  Your drop-bags will later be transferred to John o’Groats ready for collection on arrival." One bag sequentially to two controls (?designated by who?) and then to the finish seems more workable. 10 litres then, perhaps. The yellow PBP bags might just take 5 litres; the LEL ones maybe 7? Why would one need civvies for travelling down to Land's End? What do you think normal unsupported riders do? Wear some shoes you're about to throw out and dump them at Penzance railway station. Same with an old top. Getting back from JoG I posted a shoebox with shoes, socks, T-shirt and shorts to the far north (capacity about 6 litres) so I could travel in comfortable, clean clothes.

I imagine they use panniers and travel fewer miles per day.  A lot of people use a support van or even sign on to RAB. Travelling to lands end is not so bad. But travelling back from inverness on the plane and then home from heathrow in cycling kit, is not practical. not to mention trying to get through airport security with spd shoes. So if I need to carry these things on the bike, then little need for drop bags.

[FifeingEejit]

Inverness does have some shops BTW...

A pair of travel trousers (or maybe even shorts), a travel shirt and some small light fold or squash able shoes take up very little space.

[Ian H]

Inverness does have some shops BTW...

A pair of travel trousers (or maybe even shorts), a travel shirt and some small light fold or squash able shoes take up very little space.

Indeed.  I've done longer rides unsupported, with a minimum of off-bike clothing (nothing more than would fit in a large saddlebag).

[Greenbank]

I imagine they use panniers and travel fewer miles per day.  A lot of people use a support van or even sign on to RAB. Travelling to lands end is not so bad. But travelling back from inverness on the plane and then home from heathrow in cycling kit, is not practical. not to mention trying to get through airport security with spd shoes. So if I need to carry these things on the bike, then little need for drop bags.

If I was flying I'd be more worried about how I was going to package up the bike for the return flight as there's no way that 10L would be enough to hold sufficient padding/bags for the bike. When I flew back from PBP in 2011 I carried out a CTC clear plastic bag and a whole load of pre-cut pipe lagging (and zip ties) so I could protect the bike for the return journey (it went out to Paris in the back of a van).

So, how were you going to solve this problem?

If you were going to solve this problem by visiting a bike shop or similar in Inverness to get it boxed up then you can just buy some cheap shoes/clothes (I kitted myself out once for under £20 in Tesco when a friend who was carrying my luggage said she was going to be 6 hours later than expected to meet us and we were already at our destination) and either post other stuff back or package it up with the bike to go in the hold.

If it were me I'd be looking to go by train there and back (it helps to live in London):-

5L should be enough for the spare kit I'd need during the ride (a spare pair of shorts and a couple of spare jerseys plus some other luxuries) and the other 5L allowance could be used for clothes/shoes to travel in. I'd then split the spare kit between the two drop bags so it was in the right place and fill up the rest of the space in each with the normal clothing/shoes as it didn't matter where this was as long as it gets to JOG.

Even then I've done plenty of trains to/from Audaxes in cycling kit. When I did a 3 day one-way DIY recce of London-Edinburgh in 2009 I came back by train in the same kit I'd used on one of the days as I had to carry everything for all 3 days as there were no drop bags at all. It's one reason why I much prefer SPDs and MTB shoes, walking normal distances is perfectly doable.

10L * 200 people = 2000L = 2m³ at least if it was as dense as water. Quantative surverying rule of thumb is to treble volumes for loose items so that's 8m³. That's a big van already. To give people even a 30L rucksack and you triple that to 24m³.

Pare it down, come up with another solution or realise a one-way trip like this with a flight at the end might not be for you.

[FifeingEejit]

One solution to the train clothing problem is to book the sleeper.
Compartment to yourself, clothing doesn't matter (unless it suddenly does when you grind to a halt on Slochd with a broken 86 on the front)

[Ajax Bay]

I hope 5litres is not the expected size, considering this is not an out and back or circular route, so will need civies for travelling to penzance and from john o groats. I dont really want to spend all day on public transport in lycra and SPDs

Why would one need civvies for travelling down to Land's End? What do you think normal unsupported riders do? Wear some shoes you're about to throw out and dump them at Penzance railway station. Same with an old top. Getting back from JoG I posted a shoebox with shoes, socks, T-shirt and shorts to the far north (capacity about 6 litres) so I could travel in comfortable, clean clothes.

I imagine they use panniers and travel fewer miles per day.  A lot of people use a support van or even sign on to RAB. Travelling to lands end is not so bad. But travelling back from inverness on the plane and then home from heathrow in cycling kit, is not practical. not to mention trying to get through airport security with spd shoes. So if I need to carry these things on the bike, then little need for drop bags.

But riders taking on an Audax LEJOG are not "a lot of people" they're more or less self-supported. Imagine panniers all you like: I carried about 5kg in 15 litres in bag and rack. But I only averaged 180km a day. I'm not suggesting travelling home in cycling kit, as I said a shoebox will get you shoes and clothes to travel in - post it for pennies to where you're staying after finishing. To get back to work in London I took the ferry to Orkney, rode the 30km to Kirkwall, caught the overnight ferry to Aberdeen (2330-0700) and flew back (having packed my bike in a cardboard box from a bike shop) to Heathrow and then a bus. Was back at work (well at my desk) 24 hours after finishing at JoG.
"trying to get through airport security with spd shoes" - you seem to be scrabbling at straws and looking for problems not solutions.

[Wycombewheeler]

I imagine they use panniers and travel fewer miles per day.  A lot of people use a support van or even sign on to RAB. Travelling to lands end is not so bad. But travelling back from inverness on the plane and then home from heathrow in cycling kit, is not practical. not to mention trying to get through airport security with spd shoes. So if I need to carry these things on the bike, then little need for drop bags.

If I was flying I'd be more worried about how I was going to package up the bike for the return flight as there's no way that 10L would be enough to hold sufficient padding/bags for the bike. When I flew back from PBP in 2011 I carried out a CTC clear plastic bag and a whole load of pre-cut pipe lagging (and zip ties) so I could protect the bike for the return journey (it went out to Paris in the back of a van).

So, how were you going to solve this problem?

If you were going to solve this problem by visiting a bike shop or similar in Inverness to get it boxed up then you can just buy some cheap shoes/clothes (I kitted myself out once for under £20 in Tesco when a friend who was carrying my luggage said she was going to be 6 hours later than expected to meet us and we were already at our destination) and either post other stuff back or package it up with the bike to go in the hold.

If it were me I'd be looking to go by train there and back (it helps to live in London):-

5L should be enough for the spare kit I'd need during the ride (a spare pair of shorts and a couple of spare jerseys plus some other luxuries) and the other 5L allowance could be used for clothes/shoes to travel in. I'd then split the spare kit between the two drop bags so it was in the right place and fill up the rest of the space in each with the normal clothing/shoes as it didn't matter where this was as long as it gets to JOG.

Even then I've done plenty of trains to/from Audaxes in cycling kit. When I did a 3 day one-way DIY recce of London-Edinburgh in 2009 I came back by train in the same kit I'd used on one of the days as I had to carry everything for all 3 days as there were no drop bags at all. It's one reason why I much prefer SPDs and MTB shoes, walking normal distances is perfectly doable.

10L * 200 people = 2000L = 2m³ at least if it was as dense as water. Quantative surverying rule of thumb is to treble volumes for loose items so that's 8m³. That's a big van already. To give people even a 30L rucksack and you triple that to 24m³.

Pare it down, come up with another solution or realise a one-way trip like this with a flight at the end might not be for you.

Bike return is sorted. Shipping it home still a big saving over taking the train. John o groats bike company arrange this for end to end riders all the time.

Sleeper train £190 flight £30 shipping bike home £80. Not to mention the many hours saved. I cant see why anyone would want to pay more to take the train, not to mention the limited number of bike spaces on train. Now the field is about 200. How many bikes per train on the inverness to london line? And how many trains per day? How long to get everyone back?

I made sure j had plans in place for return travel before signing up. The last thing I wanted was to be at the station at wick/thurso with the guard saying no more than 6 people on the train and 150 riders on the platform

[Greenbank]

Bike return is sorted. Shipping it home still a big saving over taking the train. John o groats bike company arrange this for end to end riders all the time.

Sleeper train £190 flight £30 shipping bike home £80. Not to mention the many hours saved. I cant see why anyone would want to pay more to take the train, not to mention the limited number of bike spaces on train. Now the field is about 200. How many bikes per train on the inverness to london line? And how many trains per day? How long to get everyone back?

I made sure j had plans in place for return travel before signing up. The last thing I wanted was to be at the station at wick/thurso with the guard saying no more than 6 people on the train and 150 riders on the platform

OK, so it's simple for you then. Use some of your drop bag space to stash some lightweight shoes and clothes and use those when finished, if need be drop in to a local Primark/H&M/whatever and buy some more clothes, stick your SPD shoes with your bike and let JOG bike company deal with those for you. Or, as others have said, post some clothes up to yourself at JOG in advance. Plenty of people do this.

As for "I cant see why anyone would want to pay more to take the train"

I often take the train because:
a) It's far less eco-damaging[1] than flying
b) I'm willing to sacrifice a bit more time to enable (a) but the difference isn't that huge
c) You can often get much cheaper train tickets when the advance fares open up ~90 days in advance - it might not end up costing more than flying but this is always a gamble. I remember paying £20 or so to come back from Edinburgh to London on the train, and that was 1st class with free biscuits/coffee - no chance of flying for that price.
d) Yes bike reservations can be a bit of a gamble, but generally it works out. I've always managed to get back from various events in the past, and I could just ship my bike in the same way you were planning to.

Picking a random day in March (within the 90 days) then selecting Wick to London train fares I get told it's £196. Doing individual tickets from Wick/Inverness/Edinburgh/London I can get advance fares for £9.80 + £17.60 + £32.00 = £59.40. That would leave Wick at 6am and arrive back in London at 7pm.

So £60 for the train instead of a £30 flight (plus the cost of getting to the airport, which looks like it is £15 at least with advance fares). I could send a bike in the same way you were planning to and only have to spend £15 more to not have to fly.

1. The whole thing is an entirely unnecessary event (but people are allowed some fun in their lives) so I prefer to think of it in terms of eco-damaging rather than doing an absolutely necessary thing in a more eco-friendly way.

[Deano4]

Just got the time off work for this, so I’m in! 

[longflaps]

Crikey I've just seen the price of the RAB version: £1799 for camping or £2399 for hotels (that's apparently 8-nights though but doesn't give the star rating). I think I'll stick with the £146! Places have been increased to 200.

Andy Corless

Now gone up to £1899 for camping and hotel version sold out!

[Andy Corless]

"Now gone up to £1899 for camping and hotel version sold out!"

That's £1899 for the RAB version. The price for the Audax version remains at £146.

More details when the February update with latest developments is emailed to all entrants next week after I return from Paul's 200.

Andy Corless
Organiser
LEJOG AUDAX 2020

[Tomsk]

I'm in! Something to focus my 'training' on [wots that then?] this year. It'll be a contrast to my holiday LEJOG in 2002 - 16 days and 1,100 miles, including a day off the bike and some very easy touristy stages. I'll probably stay on a few days afterwards and explore the north coast, Cape Wrath etc ... which means a bigger saddlebag.

[quixoticgeek]

OK, so it's simple for you then. Use some of your drop bag space to stash some lightweight shoes and clothes and use those when finished, if need be drop in to a local Primark/H&M/whatever and buy some more clothes, stick your SPD shoes with your bike and let JOG bike company deal with those for you. Or, as others have said, post some clothes up to yourself at JOG in advance. Plenty of people do this.

If you are getting JOG bike company to package up your bike, can you also get them to receive a parcel? Wear stuff to Lands end, post it to JOG, done.

Worst case, amazon prime order to the nearest post office to Jog?

As for "I cant see why anyone would want to pay more to take the train"

I often take the train because:
a) It's far less eco-damaging[1] than flying
b) I'm willing to sacrifice a bit more time to enable (a) but the difference isn't that huge
c) You can often get much cheaper train tickets when the advance fares open up ~90 days in advance - it might not end up costing more than flying but this is always a gamble. I remember paying £20 or so to come back from Edinburgh to London on the train, and that was 1st class with free biscuits/coffee - no chance of flying for that price.
d) Yes bike reservations can be a bit of a gamble, but generally it works out. I've always managed to get back from various events in the past, and I could just ship my bike in the same way you were planning to.

e) you really hate airports.

J

[David27]

I've entered
website mentions a commemorative jersey (I love that kind of stuff)
but I can't see how you order it
Have I missed something?

[Wycombewheeler]

I've entered
website mentions a commemorative jersey (I love that kind of stuff)
but I can't see how you order it
Have I missed something?

No details yet, I expect details will emerge in time, will probably be sold on the force GB website

[Andy Corless]

"No details yet, I expect details will emerge in time, will probably be sold on the force GB website."

Jersey currently in design and will appear in early April just before I go away at Easter.

Andy Corless
Organiser
LEJOG AUDAX

[kevinsm]

Hi, we have entered on our Tandem (none coupled frame) and live in Nottingham. Due to the logistics of transporting it, we are considering hiring a car/small van on a one way rental. Notts to Penznace, Wick to Notts. We have 1 night acc. booked prior start and after finish. The cost isn't actually that bad at approx £170ish each way + fuel, while providing some flexibility. There is also the option of couriering it, but insurance of an expensive unit is a problem, ours doesn't cover if not traveling with it, and the cost of insuring it with the Currier stars to out way this option.

Just wondering if anyone fancies sharing either way or both, no problem with stopping en route to collect drop off.

also open to other ideas, if anyone has any