Taking children out on school trips. (Moan)

[Frenchie]

So they decide that, actually, they are far better off not volunteering to help the local scout troop, kids club,  cycle club etc. or even to take a few of the kids friends out on a trip. The losers are the kids who stay indoors being babysat by CBBC instead of getting the chance to experience managed risk.

Yes, I agree with that!

Gonzo, I think you will find that this sort of paperwork delight is in fact a very British "vice". I am not saying that it does not exist elsewhere in the EU, but that it is particularly acute in the island(s).

[Regulator]

My thesis is that CRB checks are harming children more than they are preventing them coming to harm.

..d

Sorry - as someone who deals extensively with CRB checks I would disagree.  It is not the checks themselves that are the problem - but the stupidity of those administering the systems that use CRB checks - the employers in particular. 

With a well administered system then there should be few if any problems and certainly no increased risk to children.

I think you miss the point. It isn't that people are being certified by CRB as safe (or, more correctly, not known to be unsafe at the point of enquiry) but that the cost and hassle of getting all the paperwork lined up and in order, and the fearmongering and misinformation that goes with it due to, well, people being people and not all having the understanding of a first class graduate.

So they decide that, actually, they are far better off not volunteering to help the local scout troop, kids club,  cycle club etc. or even to take a few of the klids friends out on a trip. The losers are the kids who stay indoors being babysat by CBBC instead of getting the chance to experience managed risk.

And then they turn adult overnight and suddenly come out of the bubble.

That is the perniciousness of the current system. It is unintended but it is there. Our society is the poorer because of it.

..d

I think you'll find we're saying the same thing.  It is not teh CRB check themselves that are the problem but the way that they are used.

IMHO the CRB checks are useful - but they're being used incorrectly.  Adn it is not helped by the hype and hysteria whipped up by the gutter media.

[Regulator]

So they decide that, actually, they are far better off not volunteering to help the local scout troop, kids club,  cycle club etc. or even to take a few of the kids friends out on a trip. The losers are the kids who stay indoors being babysat by CBBC instead of getting the chance to experience managed risk.

Yes, I agree with that!

Gonzo, I think you will find that this sort of paperwork delight is in fact a very British "vice". I am not saying that it does not exist elsewhere in the EU, but that it is particularly acute in the island(s).

Ahem...  My experience of French bureaucracy is that it makes the British look positively carefree. 

[Frenchie]

So they decide that, actually, they are far better off not volunteering to help the local scout troop, kids club,  cycle club etc. or even to take a few of the kids friends out on a trip. The losers are the kids who stay indoors being babysat by CBBC instead of getting the chance to experience managed risk.

Yes, I agree with that!

Gonzo, I think you will find that this sort of paperwork delight is in fact a very British "vice". I am not saying that it does not exist elsewhere in the EU, but that it is particularly acute in the island(s).

Ahem...  My experience of French bureaucracy is that it makes the British look positively carefree. 

We will obviously disagree on the love for paperwork as described above, risk assessment of all sort (inc. to use a workstation), yellow tape etc... Try to beat the British on that!  Having worked on both sides of the Channel, I know your vices.

[David Martin]

I think you'll find we're saying the same thing.  It is not teh CRB check themselves that are the problem but the way that they are used.

IMHO the CRB checks are useful - but they're being used incorrectly.  Adn it is not helped by the hype and hysteria whipped up by the gutter media.

Indeed. I think they are overused, and people think that you must have a CRB check if you are even going to think about doing anything with children. Wheras in fact the requirements are very loose.

What hasn't helped the situation is one organisation refusing to accept a CRB performed on behalf of another. And the consequent waste of money, time and goodwill that engenders.

..d

[mrcharly-YHT]

What hasn't helped the situation is one organisation refusing to accept a CRB performed on behalf of another. And the consequent waste of money, time and goodwill that engenders.

..d

Absolutely.
As I used to teach, I had gone through an enhanced disclosure CRB.

The year after I stopped teaching, I volunteered to help with Duk of Edinburg stuff. I mentioned to the leader that I supposed I'd have to complete another CRB check. She looked at me, and said "You taught at the Steiner school and were CRB checked there, it seems pointless doing it again."

Common sense; just about floored me.

[nutkin]

The CRB infuriate me!

The idea is fair enough - check that there are no criminal convictions or cautions relating to children, for people working with children.

However...

I despise the fact that I have to have one done for every supply agency I work for, at a cost of £36 each. This is payable to what is essentially a private company. But do they do the checks themselves? No. They send the paperwork off to the relevant police forces according to the previous addresses listed on the form.

If you have two going through the system at once this slows it down. According to the helpful man at the CRB this is because "the police forces will be suspicious of two for different employers."

Having collated all the information from the relevant forces, can the CRB hold this data? No. Due to the Data Protection Act, apparently.

So, having had one check done, if another is required a month later, the paperwork must be sent to the same police forces, representing where you have lived for the last five years. Common sense would state that this should only be done for the intervening month, or time since the last check. But that would be too simple.

The employer, having received a copy of the CRB form, is only allowed to retain it for a short while (3 or 6 months) before they have to destroy it. Data Protection Act again.

Oh, and the CRB can obviously only guarantee the content of the CRB from up to the day it is printed.

I'm not sure the CRB in its current form is really doing the job it was intended for.

Incidentally, on the TES website there are a number of horror stories concerning occasions on which the CRB have made mistakes.

[Valiant]

Aswell as filling out those forms I also have to make up consent forms for the following

Taking still images of the kids
Taking video of the kids
Using their voices for voice overs
Having the ability to screen the film to the school
Being able to make DVD compilations of the films with films from the rest of the class
Permission to use the film outside school - one form for each event.
Permission to use the films to show our funders examples of the work we do
Permission to use clips of the films in the company showreel

Whatever happend to bloody one form to rule them all?

Could you imagine what would happen if we had to go through the same thing when saying wedding vows?