Author Topic: [LEL17] LEL Suggestions Box  (Read 49177 times)

mmmmartin

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Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #250 on: 21 August, 2017, 10:31:45 pm »
The system at Moffat seemed pretty  simple and bombproof, and if you were looking for a system I'd start there. One picture of that big sheet of paper revealed at one glance how it worked.
Besides, it wouldn't be audacious if success were guaranteed.

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #251 on: 21 August, 2017, 10:58:19 pm »
The system at Moffat seemed pretty  simple and bombproof, and if you were looking for a system I'd start there. One picture of that big sheet of paper revealed at one glance how it worked.

Hmmm. I wasn't woken up at Moffat. And I wasn't the only one - there were a few complainers hanging around, and one poor volunteer was taking the flak for something that was not her fault.

I'm not complaining - I got an extra hour's sleep, and if I hadn't been so careless as to let my phone battery die, I'd have known the time and been able to get myself up. But it wasn't bombproof.

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #252 on: 21 August, 2017, 11:27:22 pm »
A misconception that vegans are "...greatly more difficult" to cater for due to a "restrictive" and/or "extreme" diet. Basic plant based carbs that you would get at controls such as potatoes, beans, pasta, bread, fruit and dry cereal are all vegan.

Bread's a standard gotcha.  It's not uncommon for whey powder to sneak in there.  I'd want to check the ingredients on baked beans too (I know proper Heinz ones are fine, but cheaper brands might not be).

This is the sort of thing that doesn't occur to people without experience of what to check for.  Common sense only gets you so far.

And to reinforce this point, I made a shepherd's pie this evening and was going to grate some cheese over it before sticking it in the oven. I glanced at the Gran Padano packaging before opening it, and noticed that there was an ingredients list. Lysozyme protein from egg. 

Egg in any quantity is likely to send my wife to hospital: a bit of protein, in a bit of grated cheese, topping a more substantial dish? She might get away with it, she might notice a mild reaction and get away with chewing some antihistamines and rest. But it was easier for just me to have cheese tonight.

(On a similar note, much gluten-free bread contains egg. Bit of a pain when she can't have wheat either, and invariably missed by restaurants when they proudly offer it to her.)

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #253 on: 21 August, 2017, 11:40:52 pm »
Just about any standard supermarket loaf of bread is vegan. Its only fancy or gluten free stuff that might have milk etc.

I've never seen any baked beans that weren't vegan.

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #254 on: 22 August, 2017, 04:20:15 am »
What were the frustrations? We had a few issues at Moffat, but I think they due to shift changes & misunderstandings.

A standard system is a great idea.

Standardisation could also work for other aspects of running a control.

Might help the volunteers if we could standardise the riders......!

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #255 on: 22 August, 2017, 08:12:58 am »
In Barney the main gates were a long way from the control and the larger dormitory was likewise somewhat distant. And the mobile signal was dreadful. At least a rota meant you knew when someone was due to relieve you when you were stranded at an outpost...
We bought walkie-talkies for exactly this reason. Every control should have a set. We always had 1 at the gate, 1 at the front desk, 1 in the kitchen and 1 with controller Iddu.

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #256 on: 22 August, 2017, 11:22:56 am »
The system at Moffat seemed pretty  simple and bombproof, and if you were looking for a system I'd start there. One picture of that big sheet of paper revealed at one glance how it worked.

Hmmm. I wasn't woken up at Moffat. And I wasn't the only one - there were a few complainers hanging around, and one poor volunteer was taking the flak for something that was not her fault.

I'm not complaining - I got an extra hour's sleep, and if I hadn't been so careless as to let my phone battery die, I'd have known the time and been able to get myself up. But it wasn't bombproof.

The problems were down to a combination of: shift changes, inexperience, poor signage and some riders going in & out of the dorm & switching beds (probably due to exhaustion & poor signage marking the bed positions).

Lessons have been learned by me & I'll write it up when work & family holidays permit.

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #257 on: 22 August, 2017, 01:49:55 pm »
 :thumbsup:

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #258 on: 22 August, 2017, 03:45:30 pm »
Hmmm. I wasn't woken up at Moffat.

And you still finished? In time??

Chapeau!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

mmmmartin

  • BPB 1/1: PBP 0/1
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Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #259 on: 23 August, 2017, 10:38:04 am »
A thought.
sometimes the bike parking barriers were all linked in a straight line and when many bikes were put on one side there was a tendency for the entire structure to collapse to one side. Next time maybe they could be arranged in an arrow formation so one prevented another from tipping over.
Besides, it wouldn't be audacious if success were guaranteed.

redfalo

  • known as Olaf in the real world
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Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #260 on: 23 August, 2017, 10:43:45 am »
A thought.
sometimes the bike parking barriers were all linked in a straight line and when many bikes were put on one side there was a tendency for the entire structure to collapse to one side. Next time maybe they could be arranged in an arrow formation so one prevented another from tipping over.

Spalding had the best solution IMHO for this issue. They used three barriers and created tiangles.  Downside probably is this requires more space.
If you can't convince, confuse.

https://cycling-intelligence.com/ - my blog on cycling, long distances and short ones

Mr Larrington

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Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #261 on: 23 August, 2017, 11:43:25 am »
A thought.
sometimes the bike parking barriers were all linked in a straight line and when many bikes were put on one side there was a tendency for the entire structure to collapse to one side. Next time maybe they could be arranged in an arrow formation so one prevented another from tipping over.

We did that at BC, albeit after about three rows had been blown over :-\
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Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #262 on: 23 August, 2017, 12:24:30 pm »
A thought.
sometimes the bike parking barriers were all linked in a straight line and when many bikes were put on one side there was a tendency for the entire structure to collapse to one side. Next time maybe they could be arranged in an arrow formation so one prevented another from tipping over.

Spalding had the best solution IMHO for this issue. They used three barriers and created tiangles.  Downside probably is this requires more space.

Still had barriers blowing over.

Graeme

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Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #263 on: 23 August, 2017, 01:21:35 pm »
Hmmm. I wasn't woken up at Moffat.

And you still finished? In time??

Chapeau!

+1 for cable ties... We just attached the sleeping Deano to his fixed gear bike and off he went.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #264 on: 23 August, 2017, 03:02:13 pm »
Hmmm. I wasn't woken up at Moffat.

And you still finished? In time??

Chapeau!

+1 for cable ties... We just attached the sleeping Deano to his fixed gear bike and off he went.
A grand team effort.  :thumbsup:
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #265 on: 23 August, 2017, 04:12:13 pm »
A thought.
sometimes the bike parking barriers were all linked in a straight line and when many bikes were put on one side there was a tendency for the entire structure to collapse to one side. Next time maybe they could be arranged in an arrow formation so one prevented another from tipping over.

We used zig-zags at St Ives - seemed to work.  I don't think we had any barriers blow over, though some bikes were blown over.  We encouraged riders to put the bars over the top of the barrier; problem solved.

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #266 on: 23 August, 2017, 04:59:41 pm »
A thought.
sometimes the bike parking barriers were all linked in a straight line and when many bikes were put on one side there was a tendency for the entire structure to collapse to one side. Next time maybe they could be arranged in an arrow formation so one prevented another from tipping over.

Spalding had the best solution IMHO for this issue. They used three barriers and created tiangles.  Downside probably is this requires more space.
I don't remember the bike parking barriers at Spalding blowing over, but that might have been because I was too busy rescuing the entrance barriers which had blown over!
Anyway here's a couple of snaps of the Spalding bike parking barriers. (Excuse the crappy images, I was pi$$ing about with a 1963 Ilford Sportsman camera to see if it works - it does if you focus it correctly....)


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Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #267 on: 26 August, 2017, 07:31:51 am »
In the run-up to registration, maybe there should be a rider manual that you have to read and a multiple choice quiz on it that you have to complete. There would need to be a lot of translation work to avoid disadvantaging those with weak or no English, but it might be particularly helpful for people with little English to already understand some of these things so that they don't have to be explained in the thick of it.

  • why are food portion sizes limited at some controls ?
  • if I'm still hungry can I go back for seconds ? What about thirds and forths ?
  • why can't I reserve my bed now and then go and eat ?
  • frostbite coming over Yad Moss, is that a real thing ?
  • how much do the control workers in the red shirts get paid ?
  • which of the following types of mechanical failure effected more riders in 2017 ? ...
  • why do we have to keep taking our shoes off ?
  • what should I do if I a have mechanical failure that I can't fix myself half way between controls ?
  • why is it important to scan out of controls ?
etc

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #268 on: 26 August, 2017, 08:02:39 am »
In the run-up to registration, maybe there should be a rider manual that you have to read and a multiple choice quiz on it that you have to complete. There would need to be a lot of translation work to avoid disadvantaging those with weak or no English, but it might be particularly helpful for people with little English to already understand some of these things so that they don't have to be explained in the thick of it.

  • why are food portion sizes limited at some controls ?
  • if I'm still hungry can I go back for seconds ? What about thirds and forths ?
  • why can't I reserve my bed now and then go and eat ?
  • frostbite coming over Yad Moss, is that a real thing ?
  • how much do the control workers in the red shirts get paid ?
  • which of the following types of mechanical failure effected more riders in 2017 ? ...
  • why do we have to keep taking our shoes off ?
  • what should I do if I a have mechanical failure that I can't fix myself half way between controls ?
  • why is it important to scan out of controls ?
etc
Good plan - but I'd suggest a video?
Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #269 on: 26 August, 2017, 09:53:52 am »
It could teach people with little English how to spell "fourth". Pesky foreigners, coming over here and riding our events.
Eddington Number = 132

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #270 on: 26 August, 2017, 10:08:56 am »
In the run-up to registration, maybe there should be a rider manual that you have to read and a multiple choice quiz on it that you have to complete. There would need to be a lot of translation work to avoid disadvantaging those with weak or no English, but it might be particularly helpful for people with little English to already understand some of these things so that they don't have to be explained in the thick of it.

  • why are food portion sizes limited at some controls ?
  • if I'm still hungry can I go back for seconds ? What about thirds and forths ?
  • why can't I reserve my bed now and then go and eat ?
  • frostbite coming over Yad Moss, is that a real thing ?
  • how much do the control workers in the red shirts get paid ?
  • which of the following types of mechanical failure effected more riders in 2017 ? ...
  • why do we have to keep taking our shoes off ?
  • what should I do if I a have mechanical failure that I can't fix myself half way between controls ?
  • why is it important to scan out of controls ?
etc
Good plan - but I'd suggest a video?

I have been wondering if an online quiz might act as a qualification for entry. A comprehension test, based on an article covering the main factors. A German rider came up and thanked me for the 'LEL Cushion' film. which he said had helped get him round.





ElyDave

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Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #271 on: 26 August, 2017, 11:37:56 pm »
Wow.  There's so much useful input on this board that I'm almost sorry I won't be a controller in 2021!  Some of what I'm about to post is deliberately provocative (and, as I'm sure our provision at St Ives this year will testify to, not how I and Colin handled things this year).

Providing for vegetarians is relatively easy.  Veganism is greatly more difficult, and currently remains a significantly small minority (that's an observation, not a judgement).  While I am confident that all of the veggie food provided at St Ives was also suitable for vegans (and I know Colin put considerable effort into this), it is quite difficult to be absolutely certain, especially when it is not a vegan preparing the menu and thus familiar with the pitfalls.  So on an event like this I think that it is foolhardy for the Organisation to state that vegan food will be available throughout or for a vegan rider to rely on it.  To be honest, I find it difficult to believe that vegans think differently - there's too much at risk.

A similar argument could be made about other "extreme" dietary needs, such as gluten free and dairy free.  It seems slightly strange to call these extreme, but the fact is that to someone who is not susceptible to gluten, or dairy, it is quite difficult to be sufficiently on the ball to confidently cater for those that are.  I know that at St Ives the spread used on the bread was not dairy free (nor vegan), and we did not flag that up (it's only on reading this thread that I realised that).

While I have every sympathy with those who choose to, or even more so for those that have to, follow restricted diets, the responsibility has to rest with them, and at the end of the day they may have to eat somewhere other than the control.  As amateurs in the catering business it would be foolish to rely on volunteer caterers to provide such specialist diets.

Having said that, I sincerely hope that we did indeed manage to provide something suitable for every single rider through our doors at St Ives.  You may not have liked our selection, but hopefully it was edible!

''restricted'', ''extreme'', a bit ignorant/flippant imo.

With some insight it can be relatively easy to cater for vegans - you'd be surprised. What is taken to be good honest audax grub is vegan. Jacket potatoes with beans (no butter), rice, pasta, fruit, cereal, beans on toast (providing no butter on the toast which non dairy). My only gripe on the whole was lack of soy milk if I wanted some cereal if the control had it. I fully accept that I won't be able to eat everything at a control but to say that to cater for vegans is ''greatly more difficult'' as to supposedly not try is rubbish.

Being mostly on food service at st Ives, I found most veggies and vegans extremely grateful for the variety we offered thank entirely to Colin and those supporting him. There was no flippant attitude at all.

The only disgruntled diner I experienced was because he had to wait twenty minutes for soup. I had one guy looked like he was either going to burst into tears, or hug me when I showed him the vat of bean stew.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #272 on: 28 August, 2017, 10:48:15 am »
One lesson I am going to take forward next time is to make it far more explicit that we make no guarantees of gluten-free food. We simply cannot cater for people for whom gluten is a crippling poison.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #273 on: 28 August, 2017, 11:09:29 am »
Gluten is indeed a crippling poison, even in tiny quantities for the truly coeliac. (This is not always true for those who claim to be gluten-intolerant.)

Plain fruit and veg are fine, obviously.

I found a range of packaged falafel and other savouries made by 'Great Foods', which were gluten-free and vegan, for a recent party I held. I served them in their original packaging to prevent contamination.

They weren't cheap but could serve to feed a desperate rider. Wetherspoons have some gluten-free menu items but avoid their chips!

I appreciate avoiding gluten contamination is a potential minefield!

Re: LEL Suggestions Box
« Reply #274 on: 28 August, 2017, 12:06:11 pm »
One lesson I am going to take forward next time is to make it far more explicit that we make no guarantees of gluten-free food. We simply cannot cater for people for whom gluten is a crippling poison.

I think you should make it very clear that we make no guarantees for a lot of things: spare tubes & spokes, available beds, USB sockets, etc...