Author Topic: Arrivée est arrivé!  (Read 476151 times)

Martin

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2200 on: 05 December, 2017, 03:54:38 pm »
I'm with Helly on mudguards, it's a basic courtesy to the much valued controls not to arrive spattered in mud and deposit it all over the place (and other riders while on the route), hence the rule. Of course the organiser doesn't go out and check before the event, and if anyone should turn up without mudguards I would expect they would make sure they make sure they are presentable when they enter the controls. Given the nature of AUK routes it only takes a bit of rain to turn a pleasant lane into a mud / cowshit quagmire in winter (eg those under the South Downs)

I know of a very well respected organiser who pulled all their events following an extremely muddy winter event where mudguards were not used (and I suspect muddy shoes walked into the  control at the finish too)

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2201 on: 05 December, 2017, 03:55:53 pm »
Maybe take some time to find out why people feel strongly.

Because they feel that one day AUK will decide that helemts are now compulsory... To be honest, an association with 6,000 members which promotes organised events with 50-100 participants (with one exception) is almost invisible and has zero mediatic power... so if one day helmets will become compulsory by law, it will not be because of AUK pushing for it.

On the other hand, if helmets will become law, then there is nothing AUK can do to stop that happening... so you can all chill out, do as you think it's best, follow the law whatever that is and stop getting agitated about some otherwordly realities that might or might never happen and more importantly you can't do anything about.

Equally, I don't see the point of someone waving his hands to persuade AUK to pursue a helmet only coverage... the law is clear and the law does not impose helmets... end of the aggro

Maybe helmets might become law. Maybe that might be because there is a lot of inaccurate stuff out there about helmets and maybe cycling is all the worse for it. Maybe it’s worth cycling countering ignorance, belligerence and subterfuge.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2202 on: 05 December, 2017, 03:57:24 pm »
I don't understand why people feel so strongly about helmets... one way or the other... wear it if you want to, don't wear it if you don't want to. There is no law (yet) and Audax UK sticks to what is the law, on everything, not just helmets... brakes, aero bars and such... what ever is road legal, it is game for AUK

Not on everything. Some Orgs still insist on deciding on riders’ behalves whether or not to ride with mudguards.
I'm going to guess that you think such rules are a bad thing ... but I would suggest Mudguard Rules are in a different category to road laws; it's more a fussiness/manners/hygiene thing. Like asking visitors to take their shoes off at the front door. Or keeping the noise down late at night to keep the neighbours happy.

[In Time Trialling land, the equivalent is probably "No warming up on rollers". Sounds utterly bizarre, but the rule is usually deployed with good reason :P )

But why do only a minority of events require mudguards? It’s not difficult to find two events in the same part of the country at the same time of the year, one with mandatory mudguards, one without. Are all of the Orgs who don’t insist on mudguards unfussy / unmannerly / unhygienic? Or is there something else at play?

Well it could be the different nature of the controls on the two events.  Or just the individual organiser's perceptions.  In just the same way as you might be expected to take your shoes off entering some folks' houses, but not others.
As a rider I can choose not to ride a mudguard-obligatory event** - and in just the same way I can choose not to visit a friend's house because I know they'll want me to remove shoes, and I've a hole in my sock which I would rather not display.  :facepalm:

**Or even a non-AUK event where helmets are required.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2203 on: 05 December, 2017, 04:01:09 pm »
I don't understand why people feel so strongly about helmets... one way or the other... wear it if you want to, don't wear it if you don't want to. There is no law (yet) and Audax UK sticks to what is the law, on everything, not just helmets... brakes, aero bars and such... what ever is road legal, it is game for AUK

Not on everything. Some Orgs still insist on deciding on riders’ behalves whether or not to ride with mudguards.
I'm going to guess that you think such rules are a bad thing ... but I would suggest Mudguard Rules are in a different category to road laws; it's more a fussiness/manners/hygiene thing. Like asking visitors to take their shoes off at the front door. Or keeping the noise down late at night to keep the neighbours happy.

[In Time Trialling land, the equivalent is probably "No warming up on rollers". Sounds utterly bizarre, but the rule is usually deployed with good reason :P )
What is the reason for 'no warming up on rollers'? I'm sure there is a good reason but I can't imagine what it is.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2204 on: 05 December, 2017, 05:07:21 pm »
I do wonder if there was an exact moment when YACF shifted from being a friendly place where people who rode bikes talked about riding bikes to being a noticeboard for ranting and name calling.

It's always been both, at least for as long as I've known it.   :-\

Things always get a bit heated over the winter when people have less cycling to do or talk about, so more time gets devoted to subjects where we have less in common, and a few resort to trolling (in the original starting-arguments-on-the-internet-for-their-own-sake sense, not the generic term for online abuse that it's become) for entertainment.

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2205 on: 05 December, 2017, 05:10:58 pm »
After receiving my copy and quickly reading the article I feel challanged to respond to the article. I took the photo in question. The author's viewpoint of banning photo's of riders without helmets would be a blatant limitation to the photographer's task of a good and fair documentation of the event. A rule like this would make me step down from the role of event photographer as I would be forced to censor my pictures and would be breaching the ethics of photography.

Besides, neither wearing or not wearing a helmet is the issue but the helmet debate. The debate which allows certain forces in poltics and governments to channell the debate away from the real issue, car driver behaviour and road design to the kit the cyclists wear.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2206 on: 05 December, 2017, 05:15:02 pm »
It's badly-driver motor vehicles that endanger cyclists, not the lack of safety equipment.  Obviously photographers should be banned from showing people riding in the presence of motor vehicles...

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2207 on: 05 December, 2017, 05:17:18 pm »
What is the reason for 'no warming up on rollers'? I'm sure there is a good reason but I can't imagine what it is.

The TTing rule I was aware of was 'no warming up on turbos' because of the noise generated at daft o'clock and the knock-on risk of waking the neighbours and leading to complaints to the org.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2208 on: 05 December, 2017, 06:12:17 pm »
I don't understand why people feel so strongly about helmets... one way or the other... wear it if you want to, don't wear it if you don't want to. There is no law (yet) and Audax UK sticks to what is the law, on everything, not just helmets... brakes, aero bars and such... what ever is road legal, it is game for AUK
Not on everything. Some Orgs still insist on deciding on riders’ behalves whether or not to ride with mudguards.
I'm going to guess that you think such rules are a bad thing ... but I would suggest Mudguard Rules are in a different category to road laws; it's more a fussiness/manners/hygiene thing. Like asking visitors to take their shoes off at the front door. Or keeping the noise down late at night to keep the neighbours happy.

But in point of fact AUK don't have a rule about keeping the noise down at night - even though it might be a very good idea if they did.  Mudguards are (in some people's eyes) a matter of common decency in which case we don't need rules about them or indeed to mention them at all.  The mudguard provision is a complete aberration in the AUK regs.

... I took the photo in question. The author's viewpoint of banning photo's of riders without helmets would be a blatant limitation to the photographer's task of a good and fair documentation of the event. A rule like this would make me step down from the role of event photographer as I would be forced to censor my pictures and would be breaching the ethics of photography. ...

It's really the magazine editor's job to do the censoring and selection, from the range of pictures they have available.  But there's no agenda, selection is more a matter of technical quality, framing and telling a story.  Arrivee cover photos down the years have always broadly reflected the general demographic among riders at the period in question - lidded or not, male/female etc - with a possible exception that repugnants have been generally under-represented, but I'm sure that's just unlucky, because equally I'm sure there is no agenda.  Perhaps they just naturally keep their heads down.  Of course this broad representation is not obvious when a single cyclist is portrayed (one reason I personally don't much like single cyclist shots), but where there is a group it pans out pretty well, as you would expect.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2209 on: 05 December, 2017, 06:30:25 pm »
But why do only a minority of events require mudguards? It’s not difficult to find two events in the same part of the country at the same time of the year, one with mandatory mudguards, one without. Are all of the Orgs who don’t insist on mudguards unfussy / unmannerly / unhygienic? Or is there something else at play?

The request from mudguards doesn't come purely from the organiser (well, there may be some who misuse the requirement). It's almost certainly to placate one or more of the intended controls. In planning the event the organiser asks the cafe owner if they would mind being a control for the ride giving them a rough idea of how many people will arrive, how much they'll spend and how they are likely to be spread out over a certain time-frame. The cafe owner might say "sorry, no thanks, we get lots of cyclists in and many leave the seats in a muddy mess, much as I'd like the extra custom I can't be dealing with the extra hassle." If the organiser can say "That's ok, we can require all riders to have mudguards, so they may be a little damp if it's raining but they should be clean." That may, or may not, be enough to swing it.

So two rides on the same day in the same area might have different mudguard stipulations because they use different controls, or the control owner hasn't grumbled enough to the organiser.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2210 on: 05 December, 2017, 06:40:57 pm »
Things always get a bit heated over the winter when people have less cycling to do or talk about, so more time gets devoted to subjects where we have less in common, and a few resort to trolling (in the original starting-arguments-on-the-internet-for-their-own-sake sense, not the generic term for online abuse that it's become) for entertainment.

You mean the "This divisive issue will certainly excite response" kind?

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2211 on: 05 December, 2017, 06:44:02 pm »
I haven't read this one yet but just by reading things here I'm already looking forward to the *next* edition of Arrivee.

Having a helmet debate being played out at 3 month intervals will be interesting to watch.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2212 on: 05 December, 2017, 08:13:49 pm »
What is the reason for 'no warming up on rollers'? I'm sure there is a good reason but I can't imagine what it is.

The TTing rule I was aware of was 'no warming up on turbos' because of the noise generated at daft o'clock and the knock-on risk of waking the neighbours and leading to complaints to the org.
Ah, that does make sense (assuming it's a daft o'clock start, of course!)
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2213 on: 05 December, 2017, 09:03:53 pm »
What is the reason for 'no warming up on rollers'? I'm sure there is a good reason but I can't imagine what it is.

The TTing rule I was aware of was 'no warming up on turbos' because of the noise generated at daft o'clock and the knock-on risk of waking the neighbours and leading to complaints to the org.

Interesting. I run a time trial series for ultra cyclists and we have no such proscription against warming up on anything - or even against running in place.

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2214 on: 05 December, 2017, 09:33:24 pm »
... I also note lots of pictures of bikes on LEL that don't meet the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations*. Is arrivee and AUK condoning this flagrant breach of the law by using such photo's? I look forward to that discussion.

That reminds me of the time I won the 24 hour National Time Trial Championship - at least in my own head.  I disqualified all those I saw cycling illegally without pedal reflectors during the house of darkness (can you believe), even though they might well have been, without exception, displaying powerful lights and wearing reflective gear.  I was the moral, if unrecognised, winner albeit some 200 miles behind, with my sandals and saddlebag and my 5 Audax points.

rob

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2215 on: 05 December, 2017, 09:49:28 pm »
What is the reason for 'no warming up on rollers'? I'm sure there is a good reason but I can't imagine what it is.

The TTing rule I was aware of was 'no warming up on turbos' because of the noise generated at daft o'clock and the knock-on risk of waking the neighbours and leading to complaints to the org.

Interesting. I run a time trial series for ultra cyclists and we have no such proscription against warming up on anything - or even against running in place.

Do your events have HQs in small quiet villages where the whirr of a turbo at 4:30am would cause complaints and the potential loss of venue for the following year ?

Martin

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2216 on: 05 December, 2017, 10:17:08 pm »
I haven't read this one yet but just by reading things here I'm already looking forward to the *next* edition of Arrivee.

Having a helmet debate being played out at 3 month intervals will be interesting to watch.

Indeed; someone has taken the time to write an article in Arrivee so why can't people continue the debate there rather than here? YACF is not Arrivee neither is it AUK

Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2217 on: 05 December, 2017, 10:36:36 pm »
Having a helmet debate being played out at 3 month intervals will be tedious to watch.

Indeed; someone has taken the time to write an article in Arrivee so why can't people continue the debate in the AUK forum rather than here? YACF is not Arrivee neither is it AUK
FTFY


hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2218 on: 05 December, 2017, 11:01:08 pm »
Yet Another F***ing Helmet 'Debate' is ALWAYS F***ing tedious!

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2219 on: 05 December, 2017, 11:19:00 pm »
Indeed; someone has taken the time to write an article in Arrivee so why can't people continue the debate there rather than here? YACF is not Arrivee neither is it AUK

Life would undoubtedly be too short.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2220 on: 05 December, 2017, 11:20:07 pm »
Having a helmet debate being played out at 3 month intervals will be tedious to watch.

Indeed; someone has taken the time to write an article in Arrivee so why can't people continue the debate in the AUK forum rather than here? YACF is not Arrivee neither is it AUK
FTFY
I look at the AUK forum about once every six months.

I don’t seem to miss much.
It is simpler than it looks.

TOBY

  • hello
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2221 on: 05 December, 2017, 11:27:14 pm »
Nice to have the way you ride your bike described as a parade of abhorrent behaviour in a letter published in your club magazine.

mmmmartin

  • BPB 1/1: PBP 0/1
    • FNRttC
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2222 on: 05 December, 2017, 11:31:17 pm »
I look at the AUK forum about once every six months.

I don’t seem to miss much.
I look at it about once a week, and what i see is well worth popping in for. IMHO it's sensible, thoughtful opinion by sensible, thoughtful people, using their own names.
Besides, it wouldn't be audacious if success were guaranteed.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2223 on: 06 December, 2017, 12:11:23 am »
I look at the AUK forum about once every six months.

I don’t seem to miss much.
I look at it about once a week, and what i see is well worth popping in for. IMHO it's sensible, thoughtful opinion by sensible, thoughtful people, using their own names.

Sounds a bit like YACF without the smut.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Arrivée est arrivé!
« Reply #2224 on: 06 December, 2017, 12:39:06 am »
I look at the AUK forum about once every six months.

I don’t seem to miss much.
I look at it about once a week, and what i see is well worth popping in for. IMHO it's sensible, thoughtful opinion by sensible, thoughtful people, using their own names.

Sounds a bit like YACF without the smut.

There is nothing wrong with the AUK forum.
It is not generally sufficiently exciting or entertaining for me to bother visiting very often.