Risk management

[DanialW]

By the way, the first draft of the 2013 LEL risk assessment ran to two pages, and we've plenty more to add to the second draft.

[YahudaMoon]

Hi Dan. Its John Diffley. Is there anywhere this draft or previous risk assesments  to  be available on the web network ? and was that yourself in Todmorden about 5 week ago at 7 am on a friday ?
Im looking into maybe organising a calender event, work load pending ?

[DanialW]

Diffo!

Yes, it was me! Didn't stop because I was dashing for a train. What on earth were you doing in Tod at half seven in the morning?

If you want to organise an event, I'm happy to be your mentor. I'll talk you through the risk assessment and the rest of it. I'll drop you a line later.

[YahudaMoon]

Hi Dan. I had just cycled from Manchester and Just left the ATM in Todmorden for the start of Fleet Moss permanent. Why else would I be in Yorkshire at 7am lol.
That's great if you could help me add another calender event for the Greater Manchester area. I'm sure it will be a success for the AUK calendar. Speak soon John m.

[Gareth Rees]

I think the easiest way round the whole thing

But why would organisers want to get round the whole thing? Surely they want their riders to have a good time and get round safely?

I've not organised an audax, but I lead club rides from time to time, and I try to think about the risks and take steps to ameliorate them, as I'm sure every leader does.

* Risk: rider hit by motor vehicle. Response: pick routes that don't use too many busy roads.
* Risk: rider injured due to pothole or other surface hazard. Response: signal hazards; take it carefully on descents where road surface is poor.
* Risk: rider bonks, gets hypothermic. Response: make sure ride has enough café stops for the distance; check cafés are open; carry bonk rations.
* Risk: rider has heart attack or stroke. Response: carry mobile phone; know basic first aid.
* Risk: rider gets separated from group; gets lost. Response: go at pace of slowest rider or wait for group to catch up at junctions; check that new riders know how to get home at end of ride.

It's basic common sense, not onerous, and I'd be devastated if someone was hurt on a ride I was leading.

[phil d]

I don't think that organisers want to "get round the whole thing" - we do understand the need to do a proper risk assessment.  My understanding of what we are talking about here is where we draw the line between "normal everyday" risks that any rider entering an audax should be aware of and be prepared to deal with themselves, and "special" risks that we need to address for the particular ride(s) we are organising.

As we don't actually lead the rides, but provide entrants with a suggested route, the assessment is rather different to the one you outline.  But no less important.

[Manotea]

Its worth noting that routesheet annotation regarding road hazards is mostly lost on GPS users, and a mapping GPS showing the route ahead encourages riders to ride harder & faster then they might otherwise (especially at night), possibly* at the expense of observing local road conditions.

*Edit. I'm not saying they would, just that the GPS facilitates 'pushing on', in fact that is part of their appeal.

[CommuteTooFar]

Yes but the GPS users are choosing to ignore the route sheet information so the organiser has not increased his personal liability.

[richie]

Its worth noting that routesheet annotation regarding road hazards is mostly lost on GPS users, and a mapping GPS showing the route ahead encourages riders to ride harder & faster then they might otherwise (especially at night), at the expense of observing local road conditions.

I'd fully agree with the first bit. I quite often program the GPS a week or two before the event and then don't even bother looking at the routesheet again, so any hazard warnings are lost on me.  I therefore engage what used to be called 'common sense' when encountering 'local road conditions'....

[Ian H]

I'd say that specific annotation of road hazards is in general a bad thing. The rider should be alert to hazards at all times just as they would at other times. They should not be given the impression that they are somehow protected while on an event, or not subject to the normal rules of the road.

I do make general mention of road conditions and possible traffic conditions (eg:"this route uses lanes which may be in a poor state of repair")

[tom_e]

Er, I did put the routesheet hazard notes into my GPS.  Was not difficult.

Wouldn't rely on them obviously, there's nothing quite like looking where you're going for the up-to-date hazard information. 

[frankly frankie]

Yes but the GPS users are choosing to ignore the route sheet information so the organiser has not increased his personal liability.

Does that also apply to people who choose to navigate using a highlighted paper map?

[Panoramix]

Er, I did put the routesheet hazard notes into my GPS.  Was not difficult.

Wouldn't rely on them obviously, there's nothing quite like looking where you're going for the up-to-date hazard information. 

Same for me, I always put them in my GPS. I think it is a good thing to highlight real hazards. I wish I had known before the BC that the bent at the bottom of Grosmont was tricky, it would certainly have saved me a helmet and some grazing.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

I do make general mention of road conditions and possible traffic conditions (eg:"this route uses lanes which may be in a poor state of repair")

That note isn't of any use to riders.  Knowing that a specific lane has a worse-than-usual surface is useful.

[border-rider]

I wish I had known before the BC that the bent at the bottom of Grosmont was tricky, it would certainly have saved me a helmet and some grazing.

but, but, but...it's no worse - and probably better - than many roads in rural areas. You've just got to ride in a way commensurate with the conditions; if in doubt what's round the corner, take it easy on the descent.

I learned this the hard way many years ago on a Cotswold Corker when I went round a steep descending bend on a narrow lane apace and found the road blocked by a milk tanker.  I'm much more circumspect these days.

[BlackSheep]

I can't help thinking that some folk are getting confused with risk assesment (RA) and risk management (RM).

RA is a wide rangeing and hugely time consuming process - even for the smallest activity.

RM is generally a result of no or ineffective RA.

[Panoramix]

I wish I had known before the BC that the bent at the bottom of Grosmont was tricky, it would certainly have saved me a helmet and some grazing.

but, but, but...it's no worse - and probably better - than many roads in rural areas. You've just got to ride in a way commensurate with the conditions; if in doubt what's round the corner, take it easy on the descent.

I learned this the hard way many years ago on a Cotswold Corker when I went round a steep descending bend on a narrow lane apace and found the road blocked by a milk tanker.  I'm much more circumspect these days.

It was certainly my own making and due to my inexperience; I tend to wear my brake pads more now!

It caught me by surprise, on a tricky descent I am always on the drops but ended up descending this one on the hoods as at the top I did not see it as steep as it was. I basically built up  too much speed at the start and then on the properly steep bit struggled to brake hard fearing to hit the hedge, I was doomed 100 meters before coming off. TBH I was too much of a city rider at the time and I am pretty confident that I would now brake earlier and harder.

I had done the Dean and the Heart of England without scaring myself before, it is certainly not the steepest one but it is just not obvious at the top.

[border-rider]

it is certainly not the steepest one but it is just not obvious at the top.

That's true

Ural Kuntz, MattC, PhilD, Spikey Dave and I did it on a perm earlier this year and it was icy too.  As you say, if you let your speed get too high you've had it

[Jaded]

Is that the one you go up on the Gospel Pass?

[border-rider]

Is that the one you go up on the Gospel Pass?

It's the one you go down on the Gospel Pass.

The BC 400 and the GP150 follow slightly different routes into Grosmont, but then they converge as far as Hay.  Panoramix is talking, I think, about the descent from Grosmont towards Pontrilas, found on both routes

The descent before Grosmont on the BC400 is also quite exciting.

[Panoramix]

Panoramix is talking, I think, about the descent from Grosmont towards Pontrilas, found on both routes

Correct