RIP chickens

[Fixedwheelnut]

They've probably got a forum for foxes, yaff I expect, with section titles like 'The Knowledge' (how to get at those chooks), 'Vulnerabilities of Southmeand's 'Caldicot' Design for Beginners' etc etc

All surfed on a Firefox browser no doubt.

 Sorry Julian and Charlotte, kill the Foxes and feed them to Erroll's Pigs
It's only illegal if you are caught allegedly

[longers]

Sorry to hear this. Mum had nearly twenty taken within a month, that was five or more years ago and she's still not keen on getting more providing foxy snacks.

Next doors lad would sit up of a night for pest control after a visit but he's married now and may not be available.

[Julian]

Where in the law does it say it is illegal to shoot a fox with an air rifle?

The various cruelty to animals laws.  You couldn't kill a fox with an air rifle of 12ftlb, just wound it.  To kill one I'd need a FAC and a shotgun, and then it would be illegal to use it in the garden.

[Rapples]

That's really pissing off, Julian. Where was the Ealing Hunt when you needed it?

Hounded out of existence per chance?

Sorry to hear that Julian and Charlotte, I assume the Quails are OK, and suitably protected.

[Julian]

The quail are fine - they're in their accommodation which is on the patio behind another fence. 

[mike]

bad luck J&C (and the chooks, of course).  There's a lot of it about, my cousins in kent just lost about 20 to their local fox who figured out he could bite through the wire and let himself in.

self-trapping and killing is quite high risk, they're quite bitey when cornered.  how about something like this? Fox Control London Urban Fox Specialist Humane Service Pest Control - Urban Fox Control London

[andygates]

Where in the law does it say it is illegal to shoot a fox with an air rifle?

The various cruelty to animals laws.  You couldn't kill a fox with an air rifle of 12ftlb, just wound it.  To kill one I'd need a FAC and a shotgun, and then it would be illegal to use it in the garden.

Likewise with bows, you'd be most likely to have a sad screamy thrashy thing rather than a dead thing. 

Fox losses come with keeping chickens. Did you plan to nom the beasties eventually?

[Julian]

No, they were the sort of chooks which are good at laying eggs but not particularly good for meat.  Plus, they're too old for nomming. 

[Charlotte]

Likewise with bows, you'd be most likely to have a sad screamy thrashy thing rather than a dead thing. 

Not if I got the chance to draw a bead in daylight on one of the mangy little feckers. At 15 yards, with my compound bow, competition bowsight and a carbon arrow, I could shoot it through the eyeball.

Like I said, though: still a bit illegal.

[Rapples]

The only trouble is that if you kill that one another one will come to replace it

You just have to accept that if you want to keep chickens then you will lose some to Mr Foxy.  Personally I don't think foxes and towns are compatable, and more should be done to discourage them from towns and cities.  YMMV

[GruB]

Where in the law does it say it is illegal to shoot a fox with an air rifle?

The various cruelty to animals laws.  You couldn't kill a fox with an air rifle of 12ftlb, just wound it.  To kill one I'd need a FAC and a shotgun, and then it would be illegal to use it in the garden.

Ah, so it doesn't say it is illegal to shoot a fox with an air rifle then?  I didn't think it did.

[vorsprung]

Sounds like you were doing all the right things but the fox just got lucky and got in

Start again next spring with some point of lay

[Charlotte]

Better than that, we have an incubator.  We can hatch our own when we're ready for some more.  Probably as soon as we've moved house 

[TimO]

Killing the foxes won't cure the problem, as others have said, the greater availability of food will just allow others to grow to adulthood and replace them.

The only way to entirely remove the urban fox population is to remove their food sources, so no food left out in bin bags, no uncovered waste bins, no unattended BBQs, no fully secured chickens.  You would basically starve them out of existence.

That is however very easily said, but the reality is that keeping all food this well away from them is down right impossible.  If we could get this to work, we could have used pretty much the same mechanism to get rid of rats, and that hasn't worked over the last few thousand years.

In this scenario all you can do is come back with an even greater degree of security to keep the buggers out.

[pcolbeck]

Commiserations.  Foxes go a bit mad when they get in with the chickens and nearly always kill them all even though they probably only want one. It's a totally unnatural situation for them as in the wild you wouldn't get a ;load of birds that were cooped (sic) up. The foxed would stalk one and the rest would bugger off into the trees. When they get in a coop and the birds can't get away the fox goes into a killing frenzy. My friend lost 16 one evening though the fox only actually took one away with it.

[Julian]

Where in the law does it say it is illegal to shoot a fox with an air rifle?

The various cruelty to animals laws.  You couldn't kill a fox with an air rifle of 12ftlb, just wound it.  To kill one I'd need a FAC and a shotgun, and then it would be illegal to use it in the garden.

Ah, so it doesn't say it is illegal to shoot a fox with an air rifle then?  I didn't think it did.

Illegal = doing something that is against the law

Wounding a fox with an airgun pellet = against the law

There's not a specific section of a theoretical Air Rifles (Shooting of Creatures) Act, if that's what you mean.

[Ian H]

Oh dear. I hope that's nothing to do with the foxes recently evicted from our garden.

[Jules]

Bit of a schlep from south Devon. Did they enquire here about the best place to get cheap train fares


<but seriously>


Sorry to hear about this C+J. Guess its now a real problem in town. Over here in Twicks the beggars are now walking around the streets in broad daylight and don't appear to be afraid of anything

[hellymedic]

Bit of a schlep from south Devon. Did they enquire here about the best place to get cheap train fares

yebbut doesn't Ian have a lady friend down Ealing way? 

<but seriously>

Sorry to hear about this C+J. Guess its now a real problem in town. Over here in Twicks the beggars are now walking around the streets in broad daylight and don't appear to be afraid of anything

They are equally bold round these parts. Their sheer numbers deterred me from considering keeping poultry.

[pcolbeck]

It's interesting that is now almost easier to keep rural than urban chickens. Rural foxes are very wary of people they now that they are risking a blast from a 12 bore. You wouldn't see one walking through the middle of a village.

[rogerzilla]

The only way to entirely remove the urban fox population is to remove their food sources, so no food left out in bin bags, no uncovered waste bins, no unattended BBQs, no fully secured chickens.  You would basically starve them out of existence.

The characteristic smell of London (to an outsider) is one of warm domestic rubbish, so that would take some doing.

[TimO]

The only way to entirely remove the urban fox population is to remove their food sources, so no food left out in bin bags, no uncovered waste bins, no unattended BBQs, no fully secured chickens.  You would basically starve them out of existence.

The characteristic smell of London (to an outsider) is one of warm domestic rubbish, so that would take some doing.

Exactly, it would be a solution, but the possibility of successfully implementing it is insignificant.

[Ian H]

Ealing council does offer advice on deterring foxes. It's pretty useless, though, until you get to the final 'last resort' of calling in a control expert. Our attempts with cat deterrent stuff (as suggested), and prickly mahonia leaves piled around the entrances, were ignored or brushed aside. So, on the grounds that I was fairly certain it was a secondary earth, we flooded it with water and blocked the entrances in a way that would allow a fox to escape but not enter.  They appear to have abandoned it.

[GruB]

Where in the law does it say it is illegal to shoot a fox with an air rifle?

The various cruelty to animals laws.  You couldn't kill a fox with an air rifle of 12ftlb, just wound it.  To kill one I'd need a FAC and a shotgun, and then it would be illegal to use it in the garden.

Ah, so it doesn't say it is illegal to shoot a fox with an air rifle then?  I didn't think it did.

Illegal = doing something that is against the law

Wounding a fox with an airgun pellet = against the law

There's not a specific section of a theoretical Air Rifles (Shooting of Creatures) Act, if that's what you mean.

Causing cruelty is against the law.  Shooting a fox with an air-gun is only illegal if it causes cruelty.  It may not be cruelty though if:


(c)
whether the conduct which caused the suffering was for a legitimate purpose, such as—
(i)
the purpose of benefiting the animal, or
(ii)
the purpose of protecting a person, property or another animal;

So are you being cruel to the chickens or cruel to the fox or both?

[border-rider]

That might only hold if you could show that your actions definitely prevented a specific greater cruelty; shooting an individual fox would never do that. And given that there are more humane ways  than using an air rifle, it'd likely not hold even then.