The Grumble Thread - No energy for a full on rant.

[CAMRAMan]

There's no gap, the law sees anything >250W (or modified to go faster than 15.5MPH) as a motorbike, requiring insurance, MOT* & a helmet to be worn and CBT to be undertaken. There's probably also an ignored requirement for it to be type approved.

* If applicable

[Cudzoziemiec]

That's what I mean by the gap. It's a motorbike in law but because it's a bit different from most motorbikes, it gets away with being unregistered etc. It's a gap in enforcement both at street level and at the admin and sales level – also, to an extent, in public perception.

I've just seen a grainy photo of the Cardiff bike and it doesn't look quite as "motorbikey" as the ones I'm thinking of.

[rafletcher]

Is this still about the Cardiff incident?

No, it's another one in Salford.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-65854332

And as Kim says, whilst we may well conjecture that the e-bike in question was modified to allow it to travel at greater than the legal speeds allowed, the BBC can't comment (and I've seen nothing from the Cardiff incident referring to mods either, although I strongly suspect that was the case there also.)

I also noted the initial slightly anti-Police vibe of "e-bikeist dies after being chased" although to be fair the initial report I saw on this latest incident said "followed".

[Cudzoziemiec]

The one you've linked to above says "followed". This seems slightly odd. Being "chased" implies the police wanted them to stop, but they didn't. It implies some crime was suspected or detected, whereas "followed" suggests there was no request to stop and no specific offence. So why would the police "follow" someone overtly? They might do so covertly to gain information, but to do so overtly seems a bit like "stop and search" based on vague socioeconomic factors ("scrotes") rather than specific information. Which is just the kind of situation that would lead to riots, as happened in Cardiff. In other words, if (as is probably the case) the bike was illegal, it might be better to have stopped them and dealt with it rather than some vague pressuring.

[rafletcher]

And how do you stop them (assuming they'd be unwilling to do so if asked politely) without blues 'n twos?  It could be they were spotting for a patrol car, and didn't want to get into a chase. Whetver. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Lets just let them ride about unfettered for fear of the reactions we might provoke.  More suited to POBI.

[Cudzoziemiec]

My point is that they didn't use the blues and twos. If they spotted a (petrol) motorbike without plates etc, I assume they would have. But by following them (if that's what they were actually doing) they weren't quite letting them ride round unfettered either – at least not for a short time.

[Polar Bear]

So, reading the article, looking at the location using Google Maps and the "earth" pictures and the pictures in the news article I would say that the e-bikeist appears to have shot out between the bollards where they escaped the following police vehicle but straight over into the path of the oncoming ambulance.  Looking at the pictures I would suggest that he had travelled a good 100 metres, maybe more (using the zigzags in the picture and referencing Google once again) which means that for whatever reason he was unable to avoid a head on with the ambulance.

I think that it is legitimate for the police to patrol and follow somebody that they feel warrants further enquiries.  If the lad had stopped then he wouldn't have endured his fatal accident. 

The problem with policing is that they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.  As for the report: we simply don't have enough information.  I could speculate til the cows come home but that is pointless, counter-productive even.

Sad that somebody loses their life in such a pointless manner.

<Edit>

I saw my typo just now.  I meant to say 10 metres not 100.  My personal opinion on why he hit the ambulance is not entirely relevant but I am thinking that he shot out and was not able to bring the beast under proper control and cut back to the left side of the road before hitting the oncoming ambulance.

Regardless, it's very sad.

[CAMRAMan]

The tragedy, as well as the sad deaths, is a cocktail of a laissez-faire attitude to the selling of such machines in the knowledge they won't be used off-road, social deprivation, and parents/carers who think it's a good idea to buy such a machine for young, inexperienced riders.

[Cudzoziemiec]

The tragedy, as well as the sad deaths, is a cocktail of a laissez-faire attitude to the selling of such machines in the knowledge they won't be used off-road, social deprivation, and parents/carers who think it's a good idea to buy such a machine for young, inexperienced riders.

Good summary.

[Kim]

The tragedy, as well as the sad deaths, is a cocktail of a laissez-faire attitude to the selling of such machines in the knowledge they won't be used off-road, social deprivation, and parents/carers who think it's a good idea to buy such a machine for young, inexperienced riders.

Good summary.

And one that's equally applicable to the petril version.  That for decades the canonical solution to the problem has been Silly Sustrans Gates™ says everything.

[ian]

In olden times it was the kids on little motorbikes sundering the evening peace, till the police regularly S59ed them. I guess the electric version is the new mode. I hate to be harsh (ok, not really), but Darwin might just be doing his job.

[jsabine]

My point is that they didn't use the blues and twos. If they spotted a (petrol) motorbike without plates etc, I assume they would have.

Given the numbers of bikes (and quads) we see (admittedly in phases) round our way, sans plates and ridden by riders who are both sans helmets and appear too young to be in possession of a licence, I think that's a bold assumption.

[SoreTween]

[

Yebbut, 'electric motorcycle' would conjure up the image of something that you can't just buy down the nearest branch of Evans.

You can't just buy an illegal e-bike down the nearest branch of Evans either.  You either buy an illegal bike and hand it to your youth of limited experience or buy a legal bike and disregard the laptop he's plugged into it and the whoopin' and a'hollerin as he hurtles up & down the road.  Either way - parents.

In olden times it was the kids on little motorbikes sundering the evening peace, till the police regularly S59ed them. I guess the electric version is the new mode. I hate to be harsh (ok, not really), but Darwin might just be doing his job.

Harsh.  Kids being (thinking themselves bulletproof) kids.

[T42]

Eejits that I ordered a 14€ insole from sent it by Colissimo with signature, so now MrsT or I must be home to receive the thing. Twats.

[Cudzoziemiec]

My point is that they didn't use the blues and twos. If they spotted a (petrol) motorbike without plates etc, I assume they would have.

Given the numbers of bikes (and quads) we see (admittedly in phases) round our way, sans plates and ridden by riders who are both sans helmets and appear too young to be in possession of a licence, I think that's a bold assumption.

Fair point. (Are you supposed to wear a helmet on a quad? I thought it was only motorbikes, hence the bizarre situation that a passenger in a sidecar doesn't need one but the rider does.)

[Cudzoziemiec]

Eejits that I ordered a 14€ insole from sent it by Colissimo with signature, so now MrsT or I must be home to receive the thing. Twats.

Haven't had to sign for a parcel since the pandemic. Things say they require signatures but it's just not done nowadays. Could be different in France of course!

[Beardy]

My point is that they didn't use the blues and twos. If they spotted a (petrol) motorbike without plates etc, I assume they would have.

Given the numbers of bikes (and quads) we see (admittedly in phases) round our way, sans plates and ridden by riders who are both sans helmets and appear too young to be in possession of a licence, I think that's a bold assumption.

Fair point. (Are you supposed to wear a helmet on a quad? I thought it was only motorbikes, hence the bizarre situation that a passenger in a sidecar doesn't need one but the rider does.)

The track width is the determining factor. This creates the bizarre situation that some tadpole trikes (by the likes of Yamaha and purgeot) can be ridden on a car licence sans lid, and others require motorcycle licence and helmets.

[Mr Larrington]

Mr Sainsbury’s House of Toothy Comestibles has ripped out about 2/3 of its remaining manned tills in favour of MOAR, bigger self-checkouts almost, but not quite, entirely identical to the ones they ripped out in favour of MOAR manned tills a Several of years ago.  In common with their predecessors, however, they really don’t like big floppy Ortlieb panniers

[T42]

Eejits that I ordered a 14€ insole from sent it by Colissimo with signature, so now MrsT or I must be home to receive the thing. Twats.

Haven't had to sign for a parcel since the pandemic. Things say they require signatures but it's just not done nowadays. Could be different in France of course!

It varies according from one delivery wight to another. Anyway, I missed them on Saturday, being waylaid by Lady P, and they're supposed to deliver it today but the usual time for La Poste has passed. Next chance will be to pick it up on Wednesday.  PITA.

[matthew]

Mr Sainsbury’s House of Toothy Comestibles has ripped out about 2/3 of its remaining manned tills in favour of MOAR, bigger self-checkouts almost, but not quite, entirely identical to the ones they ripped out in favour of MOAR manned tills a Several of years ago.  In common with their predecessors, however, they really don’t like big floppy Ortlieb panniers

My previous solution to this was to attach the panniers to the trolley and use the hand held scanner to fill the panniers as I went round. Now I tend to be there in a car so have the normal bags rather than panniers. 

[Mr Larrington]

Mr Sainsbury’s House of Toothy Comestibles has ripped out about 2/3 of its remaining manned tills in favour of MOAR, bigger self-checkouts almost, but not quite, entirely identical to the ones they ripped out in favour of MOAR manned tills a Several of years ago.  In common with their predecessors, however, they really don’t like big floppy Ortlieb panniers

My previous solution to this was to attach the panniers to the trolley and use the hand held scanner to fill the panniers as I went round. Now I tend to be there in a car so have the normal bags rather than panniers. 

Problem with that is that using the self-scan thing requires using one's Nectar card.  I've been boycotting Nectar since they got into bed with the D**ly M**l.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Mr Sainsbury’s House of Toothy Comestibles has ripped out about 2/3 of its remaining manned tills in favour of MOAR, bigger self-checkouts almost, but not quite, entirely identical to the ones they ripped out in favour of MOAR manned tills a Several of years ago.  In common with their predecessors, however, they really don’t like big floppy Ortlieb panniers

My previous solution to this was to attach the panniers to the trolley and use the hand held scanner to fill the panniers as I went round. Now I tend to be there in a car so have the normal bags rather than panniers. 

Problem with that is that using the self-scan thing requires using one's Nectar card.  I've been boycotting Nectar since they got into bed with the D**ly M**l.

In what way do the self-checkouts not like panniers? They have several designs, including one where you pack onto a sort of table, which I think would work fine with panniers – but I guess they don't have that one at your branch.

Anyways, my solution would be to either: put panniers in trolley, put purchases into trolley next to panniers, then from "bagging area" to panniers;
or: shop elsewhere.

[Giraffe]

Panniers and rucksacks are too heavy and a voice says 'unexpected bag in item area' or something - no such problem in Waitrose.
Aldidl were OK, then went to all manned tills - selling a couple of tons of carrots and FA else, I guess.

[ian]

Despite mostly wearing the same variety of shoe since prehistoric times with never a notable problem, a new pair worn for the first time yesterday rubbed my leftest little toe. This little toe is mutant because I broke it stubbing it on an Ikea coffee table the doctor's prognosis was well, that probably hurt didn't it? Why, yes it did. Anyway, it's obligingly mutant, in that it's twisted a little bit but isn't normally an issue. Honestly, I'm not even sure of the point of little toes. I think this is more of a grumble about little toes (generally, I don't like toes, I don't want to see my toes and even less do I want to see the toes of others, so summer is slowly unreeling horror show for me). Anyway, my new shoes are just reminding me of The Horror of Toes and this I don't like.

[perpetual dan]

Panniers and rucksacks are too heavy and a voice says 'unexpected bag in item area' or something - no such problem in Waitrose.
Aldidl were OK, then went to all manned tills - selling a couple of tons of carrots and FA else, I guess.

I get something unexpected in the bagging area almost every time. The helpers reassure the till pretty soon.