Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Freewheeling => The Dark Side => Topic started by: Jedrik on 05 August, 2008, 02:34:20 pm
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About once or twice every year for a few years now I have been researching the offerings of the dark side.
I always stepped back again because of the weight, size and cost of those otherwise so seductive machines, but in order to be really cured of that bug, maybe I should just give in?
But - and there is always a but isn't there? - are my mind and body really suitable? Will I be able to do long and relaxed tours or will I despair thinking of the time limit while walking up every second hill, cursing my affliction? Please endarken me.
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JFDI
Marj had a Trice approx 18 months ago & I occassionally satisfy my own darkside desires by borrowing her rec..
I am sufficiently impressed to have a Trice of my own on the wish list & normally when I get an itch it does get scratched.
I seriously doubt that you would regret it
p.s.
& if you do & subsequently have a s/hand rec.. for sale,let me know ;)
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I've been on the Dark Side for many a year, and the only hills I've had to walk up have been when I've been so completely zonked that I can no longer balance (once, on PBP), or when a muffed gear change has caused me to topple gracelessly into the ditch (twice, on the Cambrian 600). Going up hills merely requires (very) low gears.
Weight can be a problem, admittedly, though this can be overcome with the application of enough money. Size I don't find to be much of a problem - TWFKAML's Kingcycle SWB actually occupied less space than my mountain bike.
Buy a nice shiny carbon thing and then sell it to ME if you don't like it ;D
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I used to have a Trice (the original ones, when Peter Ross used to make them), and it was great fun, even if a bit heavy. Iirc it was about 38lbs, but that was an early one, and I think Peter used to over engineer them a bit, the original steel box sectioned ones that preceded mine was stupidly heavy.
Being a tricycle, when you hit a hill you just dropped down the gears and twiddled, no issues with falling over from going too slow! I used to cycle it up the 1 in 10 hills out of Cheltenham, and it was then a real weeeee moment on the way back! ;D
Tricycles do take up more room to store though, but that's as true of upwrong ones as well as darksiders.
I'd buy another one if I hadn't just spent all my pennies on a brand spanking new, Victorian house...
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Tricycles do take up more room to store though.
Unless it's a Kettwiesel. (http://www.kinetics.org.uk/assets/images/kett0021.jpg) ;D
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Weight can be a problem, admittedly, though this can be overcome with the application of enough money.
I had been considering a Toxy TT, that would have a reasonable weight without being too far out there. And they do an XS-Size
Size I don't find to be much of a problem - TWFKAML's Kingcycle SWB actually occupied less space than my mountain bike.
Buy a nice shiny carbon thing and then sell it to ME if you don't like it ;D
Ah, there you are. I was actually talking about my size and the frequent "will fit riders taller than 165 cms". My being just under 5' 4'' has been spoiling most prospects of just trying the most lovely bling machines. Sitting on a Kingcycle for instance my feet might just scratch the ground if I try very hard. And a further downside on that: Once I get one that fits, it will hardly fit anyone else if I decide it's not for me. :'(
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Being a tricycle, when you hit a hill you just dropped down the gears and twiddled, no issues with falling over from going too slow! I used to cycle it up the 1 in 10 hills out of Cheltenham, and it was then a real weeeee moment on the way back! ;D
Tricycles would surely be very reassuring in that respect, but I can't really afford to boost system weight by more than 25% now, can I? That would practically guarantee I'd need those very low gears even going over a railway bridge. :-[
Next time around I'll be born to grow into a strapping 6'4'' lad. it hast to happen, just to even out. O:-)
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My back's been a mess for a long time, and after about three years of little or no riding, I bought a secondhand Speedy in 2001. For the next 5 years, that was pretty much the only thing I rode, until I built up the tourer. In that time I got much fitter, learned to spin, and learned to manage my back pain without drugs, to the point where I nowadays ride the tourer more than Speedy. That's a shame, because despite its lack of suitability for heavy-duties, and despite (some would say because of) its idiosyncrasies, speedy is a really nice toy, and a joy to ride up hills. It's not the lightest, nor is it the fastest or the most advanced these days, but it definitely has something that other trikes don't have. For me, that is. YMMV.
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I have been on the dark side for a year, almost exactly. I brought myself a Challenge Concept Trike 2nd hand and not looked back. I haven't taken it up many hills but those I have, I have found easier on it, much wider and lower gear range but also when I got really tired I just stopped, put the parking brake on, had a rest and then continued on my way. The bike itself doesn't weigh much, 13.7kg and feels really comfortable, but yet sporty. As for riding on the roads, it commands respect, people love it and give you loadsa space.
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... it commands respect, people love it and give you loadsa space.
I'm not sure I'd go that far, I suspect it's more along the lines of "Oh my god, wtf is that? Let's give it plenty of room, gods only know what it might do..." ;D
Still, if it works. :thumbsup:
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"Will I be able to do long and relaxed tours or will I despair thinking of the time limit while walking up every second hill, cursing my affliction? "
I've had my Giro 20 about 7 weeks. 5 weeks ago I couldn't climb Penkridge Bank in Staffs. I'm not sure if I'd have got up it on my Hewitt; I'm old, unfit and not a very regular cyclist.
Last week I cycled up it carrying a 20kg load. I was very pleased with myself.
Recumbents do go up hill, not fast, but who cares? If it's to be a long relaxed tour why not be relaxed about the time as well? Besides that, I hit 64kph on the downhill and I wasn't pedalling. My average speeds are only slightly lower than on my Hewitt (and will go up if I practise more) but I have more comfort, better road space, and very positive comments from all that I meet. It also carries a heavier load with good stability.
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After a spell riding my upright bikes (although a Moulton and a Ken Rogers trike aren't exactly conventional) I wonder why I ride recumbent trike when it's so much slower. However, after a few miles on the Kett I wonder why I cared. And oddly enough my average speeds aren't that much different.
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My dark side history, if it helps...
I rode mid range road machines: all sub 10kg & I got quite fit & powerful.
Then I broke my wrist.
Twice.
Now I have osteo-arthritis in said wrist & can't ride uprights.
I now have two recumbents: a (c14.5kg) fast tourer (Nazca Fuego Sport) & a super lightweight Challenge Fujin SLII (8.9kg) & I love them both.
TBH, I do find the weight of the Fuego annoying at times, but only really on slopes above 5% (to qualify this, I specced the gearing as if it was a light weight road bike, so I don't have very low gears on it). The Fujin climbs better than any upright I've ever ridden.
The difficulty is that recumbents are far more varied than their DF cousins, so it can take a bit more time to find something that suits. Saying that, they're a lot more versatile: I can carry 30kg luggage on my super lightweight bike & still be within the design limits & I'm not small.
Go try lots of bikes & find something that works for you! You sound quite light, so I'd try to find something at the lighter end of the market & get the widest spread of gears that you can.
Even funny sized 'bents hold their value quite well....
I've yet to regret the loss of being able to ride uprights: for every time it's a bit frustrating, there's 500 times that it's sooo much more fun!
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Being a tricycle, when you hit a hill you just dropped down the gears and twiddled, no issues with falling over from going too slow! I used to cycle it up the 1 in 10 hills out of Cheltenham, and it was then a real weeeee moment on the way back! ;D
Tricycles would surely be very reassuring in that respect, but I can't really afford to boost system weight by more than 25% now, can I? That would practically guarantee I'd need those very low gears even going over a railway bridge. :-[
Next time around I'll be born to grow into a strapping 6'4'' lad. it hast to happen, just to even out. O:-)
Why not? :demon:
Actually, it wouldn't be 25% on the system weight, because the system weight includes the rider. You don't notice the extra weight so much on a 'bent as on a DF, because you can't get out of the saddle and move the bike independently of your body.
I've just moved from a 26kg monster of a bike (a Dawes Lowrider) to a 16.5kg Optima Orca. TBH, the only time I really notice the reduction in weight is when I'm picking the bike up to load it in the van... :-\ And there's no shortage of hills here in South Wales. :thumbsup:
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...for every time it's a bit frustrating, there's 500 times that it's sooo much more fun!
Abso-blinking-lutely :thumbsup:
It is certainly the case that recumbents are very various (http://www.velovision.com/mag/issue22/vv22_recumbents.pdf), even within genres, and for that reason it is essential to try a variety before you buy. A visit to D-Tek (near Ely: 01353 648177) sounds in order, if you live within striking distance...
I know that somebody makes a version of their recumbent bike for shorter riders, but I cannot remember who... all the Burrows (http://www.bikefix.co.uk/index.php?unique=58c51aefe0709107137f04c575afc8a9&get_ol_id=4&get_gl_id=5&get_sgl_id=11#a5) machines are sized to suit their rider, anyway - and they are pretty light by recumbent standards.
I've seen a website that calculates the necessary weight increase vs. an upright (to allow for a seat instead of a saddle, for heavier steering arrangements and for a longer chain) at about 4lbs. There is no escaping this penalty, but quite a lot of recumbents are somewhat overbuilt, IMO. Yes, excess weight only matters when you are going up hill, but when you come downhill as fast as a recumbent does you seem to keep arriving at the feet of climbs :)
The Catrike Pocket (http://www.catrike.com/pocket.htm) trike that my SO bought 4 weeks ago is designed for people up to 5'8" - she is utterly besotted with it (and it's not heavy).
I ride a Kingcycle (http://www.davidreid.me.uk/kingcycle/kingcycle.htm). I love it, as do most Kingcycle owners, but they aren't made any more. The closest equivalents are the Burrows Ratcatcher (above) and the much less costly Bacchetta Giro (http://www.bikefix.co.uk/index.php?unique=8167c35c247d108cf53bee8264d4817b&get_ol_id=4&get_gl_id=82&get_sgl_id=155#a82), both fine machines.
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Damn you, harrumph, I think I just added one to my wishlist!
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I know someone who is sub-five feet and has no problem with her Kingcycle, though it does look a bit odd with the seat that far forward. Main problem for Short People is getting the pedals close enough, as one can only saw so much off the boom before things start to get precarious. Especially with bikes designed for seven-foot Dutchmen.
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Bob cut my speedy down from a Medium+ to a Small- when I bought it. I'm 5'3, and at the time I recall him saying that was about the shortest he could go. If you happen to be at Bentwaters for the world championships, you could have a go, since Speedy will almost certainly be going.
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Damn you, harrumph, I think I just added one to my wishlist!
Mwahahahahahahah! :demon:
...If you happen to be at Bentwaters for the world championships...
Yes - why not come along and have a look? Sunday 17/8 will be the better day for seeing bikes and trikes, because the racing is on shorter circuits then. The holder of the world Hour record (http://www.eivie.com/) will be racing :thumbsup: ...and there is no charge to rubberneckers ;D
http://www.wc2008.org.uk/ 9 days and counting...
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About once or twice every year for a few years now I have been researching the offerings of the dark side.
I always stepped back again because of the weight, size and cost of those otherwise so seductive machines, but in order to be really cured of that bug, maybe I should just give in?
But - and there is always a but isn't there? - are my mind and body really suitable? Will I be able to do long and relaxed tours or will I despair thinking of the time limit while walking up every second hill, cursing my affliction? Please endarken me.
Jedrik, I can honestly say that I believe recumbents to be really excellent long distance tourers, even in mountainous terrain.
The 'weight' you talk of is a reality, although there are now many good bikes coming on stream that are not so heavy, and just with DF bikes, so much of the weight saving that goes on is not just because of light weight frame material but all the expensive light-weight components that are then added to make it a complete unit. This applies just as much to bents as to DFs.
When it comes to hill climbing, weight again becomes an important factor, but generally speaking, the key is 'attitude adjustment' to begin with. You're limited in your body position, there is only one on a recumbent, so you need gears - and you need lots of them, or at least I do. Recumbents climb mountains just like any other bike, but the chances are you'll be slower on a bent. But it depends on the person. Me, I'm 49, just under fifteen stone and am no quicker up hills on any kind of bike. So it makes no odds. But, if you're a good young fit rider, have a feather light bike and fly up all the gradients put in front of you, your experience on a bent might be contrary to what you're accustomed to, and you will have a hard time of it if you keeping comparing the two. Don't compare, it's a different kind of bike. But again, be careful of generalisations, or be careful of believing them without direct experience yourself....some people are well capable of giving a very, very different picture (http://www.m5-ligfietsen.nl/site/EN/News/Events///Parijs_-_Brest_-_Parijs_2007/jump:1538/).
One of the big problems for somebody in your position is being able to try different models and styles without spending a shed load of dosh. That's mainly why I got interested in homebuilding [although heaven knows how much I've spent on mig gas!] You've got to decide what kind of cycling you want to do, sort through the various bike options and then try as many as you can. You could visit D-Tek, come to WC2008 etc. It's surprising how many different kinds of recumbent there are, and what may look similar to the eye could well be very different to ride.
Go check some out :)
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I think the Challenge Concept can accommodate upto 8ft people. Seriously. That said, I've cut a lot off the boom on mine to suit me, I am 5'3 too. I can still chuck off another 6 or 7 inches for everything to still work perfectly and someone 5'8 can still ride it with enough of the boom in to satisfy the safety line. The only thing that has posed a problem for me is the chainset being 175mm. But I'll have it cut down to size as I don't feel like forking out for a new BB and chainset.
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...your experience on a bent might be contrary to what you're accustomed to, and you will have a hard time of it if you keeping comparing the two. Don't compare, it's a different kind of bike...
Very true.
The overall speeds of weight-comparable uprights and recumbents are probably not very different; the speed dynamic most certainly is.
A few people build highly satisfactory recumbents at their first try. Most require several iterations to construct a good machine. As an alternative to homebuilding for an inexpensive entry into recumbent riding, the Speed Ross/Orbit Crystal (http://www.hembrow.eu/personal/speedross.html) fits the OP's criteria reasonably well and turns up frequently on eBay. A tidy example fetches about £350-400.
It might be worth starting with one to work out exactly what you want before spending significantly more money.
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What's been said on speed dynamic is the key to satisfaction, and also buying the right machine.
I have 2 recumbents - since 3 years now. A speedmachine for commuting - bombproof, solid - and a fujin SL refitted for audax. I love them both.
I did 25 years on uprights and loved the speed aspect, bunch riding etc.
Recumbent is different - riding with the bunch is less effective because on ups you get dropped and on downs you go off the front. Your speed is not 'steady' like on an upright but goes up and down much more.
Essentially - anywhere a road bike goes below 12mph (like a hill) you will lose advantage and be slower or have to work harder. But anywhere the road bikes are above 17mph you should be faster - but you need to be able to ride at that speed to get the benefit whcih requires good legs.
On a long straight gentlke descent you experience the best speed rush of your cycling life. Pure thrill.
The bike you choose is really critical I think - in recumbents it really is about the bike because they perform so very differently.
But - I have had my best cycling fun in 30 years on teh recumbent and woudl not go back now.
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I'd really recommend spending a half day up with Kevin at D-Tek near Cambridge if you can get there....I did that a few years ago and tried out about 20 different machines. There was no pressure to buy anything but there was total enthusiasm towards 'bents. I'd gone up with the idea that I wanted a trike but I tried mostly 2 wheelers. I did end up with a standard ICE Q trike and have never regretted it.
It is not my main machine....I usually ride a DF upwrong to work during the week but the trike is where I get the greatest pleasure by far and certainly the biggest smiles. It does takes up a bit of storage space and is a fair bit heavier than the DF and I'm not particularly fit.....going uphill is a bit slower on the trike than on my DF, so what, but down hills...wow!
I'd say that the only thing it takes to be happy on the dark side is to be riding a 'bent, be it 2 or 3 wheeled. But try a few out before buying as it can be an expensive mishtake to get the wrong machine.
It also took me a few hundred miles to get the legs for riding the trike compared to the usual upright. Diferent muscles are used it seems.
Just totally brilliant fun though......go for it :thumbsup:
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It takes a day out and a packed lunch washed down by a pint in a country pub.
I'm 57, Asthmatic and overweight. I don't walk hills I ride up and stop for a breather on the VERY rare occaisions when I stall, three stops so far this year.
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About once or twice every year for a few years now I have been researching the offerings of the dark side.
I always stepped back again because of the weight, size and cost of those otherwise so seductive machines, but in order to be really cured of that bug, maybe I should just give in?
But - and there is always a but isn't there? - are my mind and body really suitable? Will I be able to do long and relaxed tours or will I despair thinking of the time limit while walking up every second hill, cursing my affliction? Please endarken me.
Did you not see the Speed Ross that was just offered for £260 on eBay and didn't attract a seller?
You simply can't go wrong with such a machine.
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george here from south yankland (Alabama) in the states. I've been bent for about 5 years now, and have no plan to return to uprights. I'm on the second long wheelbase bent (a Tour Easy), and I like multi day cycletours and commuting. As others have said, a bent rides at a different pace than an upright: slower up the hills, on par on the flats and faster downhill-though the slower part is mostly because my motor is weak and overweight. Worry less about what its called (darkside) and enjoy the ride-I do.--george
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.................., the original steel box sectioned ones that preceded mine was stupidly heavy.
I've got an '87 square section Peter Ross trike (in bits for Winter rebuild) and Kev at D'Tek tells me it is no heavier than a new Trice. What you lose in tubing weights you gains in shock absorbers and other frills, I guess. I lifted a Trice at Mildenhall and it certainly didn't feel any lighter.
As to climbing hills, I am a 'bent beginner on my Bacchetta Giro and it took me about 200 miles to find my bent legs. I haven't actually had many hills I couldn't get up and those I didn't early on I have since been able to climb, albeit slowly. On the other hand I go much, much faster downhill and appreciable faster on the flat. My average speed is much the same as usual. All my fall offs have been on loose surfaces and slow speed running out of stability.
The bike is very comfy; no saddle soreness, no carpal tunnel pins and needles, no aches in shoulders or neck. I had some toe tingling problems but they were cured by moving the cleats on my shoes as far back as possible.
I returned to cycling after a 20 year gap last year and bought a bespoke Hewitt Cheviot SE. Lovely bike, fits me perfectly, but nowhere near the comfort or fun of the Bacchetta which, second hand, was a third of the price.
I'm also fairly certain that I get more room on the road and I definitely get positive comments from the non cycling population.
Your cycling life doesn't start until you have a 'bent and then you'll have two, or three :D
HTH
Edit: Just noticed that I posted on this back in August when I'd only had the Giro a few weeks and I haven't written anything different. sorry, but I'm glad I still feel very positive about the 'bent. It is certainly my favourite bike for touring and load carrying.
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Edit: Just noticed that I posted on this back in August when I'd only had the Giro a few weeks and I haven't written anything different. sorry, but I'm glad I still feel very positive about the 'bent. It is certainly my favourite bike for touring and load carrying.
Unfortunately your comments do nothing to stop me lusting after a Bacchetta. I will clearly have to sell (almost) all my bikes...
:P
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Edit: Just noticed that I posted on this back in August when I'd only had the Giro a few weeks and I haven't written anything different. sorry, but I'm glad I still feel very positive about the 'bent. It is certainly my favourite bike for touring and load carrying.
Unfortunately your comments do nothing to stop me lusting after a Bacchetta. I will clearly have to sell (almost) all my bikes...
:P
I've kept my Hewitt - mainly 'cos the wife is annoyed that I spent so much and have hardly used it, the Brompton has a special place for public transport and Origami rides, the trike is a project, the Bacchetta is just love. See, all you need are good reasons for keeping bikes ;D
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I can't say that I ever felt the weight of a square tubed one, but my old Aluminium Trice weighed about 38 lbs, which would have probably been with the bog standard configuration. The only significant change I made was to fit a rear carrier and a CatEye cycle computer (with a rear wheel sensor). Neither of those would have made a significant change to the weight. It should have been a bit lighter than the square steel one. The main tube had a pretty large diameter, but the whole things wasn't too heavily made, so should have been less than the steel one.
Having said all that, a lot of bits on a bike (or trike) weigh the same regardless of what the frame is made of, and indeed, quite possibly making the frame aluminium instead of steel doesn't have that big an effect on it's mass. Quite possibly the steel Trice has lasted better than the Aluminium one as well. I flogged mine some years back when I had to downscale my possessions, but I wonder if it would still be working if I had used it for all that time?
Do you have any idea what that trice weighs?
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. See, all you need are good reasons for keeping bikes ;D
I disagree Nobby.You need no reasons at all for keeping bikes ;)
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I can't say that I ever felt the weight of a square tubed one,
Do you have any idea what that trice weighs?
Nope, but each individual box of Peter Ross trike bits doesn't weigh much, although the bottom bracket bracket is very heavy ;D
Seriously though, I was quoting Kevin. I was looking at buying a new Trice for a lighter machine and knowing I had the Peter Ross that is what he said. I don't suppose he would deliberately tell a porky, especially to turn folk away, and he knew my retirement lump sum was burning a hole in my pocket.
If I build it up this winter I'll weigh it and post.
I suppose it's about time I weighed my Bacchetta. I know that it will carry 24kg of cold weather camping kit with the weight all low down and within the wheelbase. You can't do that with an upright.
I'm thinking of brazing a very large flat rack to the seat stays on the trike - like I've seen on cycleman's Anthrotec - I'm guessing that it isn't necessary to get the weight low down on a trike. I'm also considering altering the rear stays to fit in a Schwalbe Big Apple (?) tyre that I was given; that probably needs a separate thread to explore.
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A Big Apple will fit I use a 60mm one with no problems.
As to weight. The lower the better unless you want to roll on a fast corner!
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A Big Apple will fit I use a 60mm one with no problems.
As to weight. The lower the better unless you want to roll on a fast corner!
Ah, on the first; I did try it and it rubbed the end of the square tube but I can't remember by how much. Being as I need to rebuild the rear wheel, having forgotten to dish it, I thought I'd try again and introduce the angle grinder to the frametube.
On the second; is rolling a common phenomena with trikes, asks he worriedly?
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On the second; is rolling a common phenomena with trikes, asks he worriedly?
Not really, unless you're taking a sharp corner fast. I think the only time I managed it, and it took some effort, was racing around Wolverhampton town centre on one of the BHPC national championships (or it may have been a European championship).
Generally so long as you lean a bit into the turn, you won't have any problems. I do remember going onto two wheels a few times, and that seemed to cause the steering to stop doing any steering, until the third wheel dropped back onto the ground again! Panniers or towing a Bob Yak made this worse. Panniers and towing a Bob Yak made it almost a certainty !
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On the second; is rolling a common phenomena with trikes, asks he worriedly?
Wot Tim said. I've managed it twice on my Trice; once executing a low-speed U-turn on a very off-camber road and once executing a high-speed pavement lemming avoidance in Haywards Heath during last year's Hailsham 400.
The second one hurt a bit >:(
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A Big Apple will fit I use a 60mm one with no problems.
As to weight. The lower the better unless you want to roll on a fast corner!
Ah, on the first; I did try it and it rubbed the end of the square tube but I can't remember by how much. Being as I need to rebuild the rear wheel, having forgotten to dish it, I thought I'd try again and introduce the angle grinder to the frametube.
On the second; is rolling a common phenomena with trikes, asks he worriedly?
Hah! My QNT is a 2007, with a dishless rear wheel, suspended in a lovely Aluminium swinging arm. Earlier models will vary. When I bought it ICE said a 50mm BA would fit, I offered up a 60mm and it worked. Now they say a 60mm will fit. They must have tried it too!
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Sorry I dropped of the horizon for quite a while.
I got a little depressed, being more or less stuck on the continent, looking at a market of mostly solid bents made for people for up to 8 ft, instead of interesting meetings in Cambridge and such like, and then doing audax and LEL on my mostly conventional little titanium steed.
Since I now felt free to ease down into practice and much lower speeds instead of being overly concerned with performance and time limits, I took all of your advice and encouragement to heart got myself a second hand Toxy TT xs. It fits me like a glove (except maybe for the crankset), is reasonably light without ruining me completely and seems to be of a nice temper: I have done the first 67 kilometres and it hasn't thrown me yet, not even climbing at 5,5 km/h.
Climbing really is something else and I am afraid, I will need lots of practise and a good increase in speed if I ever want to finish an audax riding the bent, but hey, a challenge is not all about a personal best, learning a new skill at my age might be just the thing I need. Thank you :thumbsup:
Mr Larrington: Race you at PBP 2011? O:-)
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Interesting to see this go live again. I never did complete my plans with the Peter Ross.
Part of the retirement lump sum miracalously turned into a new QNT and I nearly rolled it in Henley. Too fast down the hill, over the bridge into the left hand turn put it on two wheels. leaning into it, a little late, put it onto a different two wheels.
I'll be careful not to repeat the experience!
:D
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Interesting to see this go live again. I never did complete my plans with the Peter Ross.
Part of the retirement lump sum miracalously turned into a new QNT and I nearly rolled it in Henley. Too fast down the hill, over the bridge into the left hand turn put it on two wheels. leaning into it, a little late, put it onto a different two wheels.
I'll be careful not to repeat the experience!
:D
Why? that's part of the fun ;) When you're at Watlington next, try the hill down past the campsite. It's Good for 50+mph and with a R/H corner at the bottom.
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This is a good Question. Me only 15 year experience. Started with Kingcycle. ross orbit ,speedy etc.
Then, could not beat my commute time on an upright to my bike shop.
Now done 5500 miles scince feb on a Bacchetta ,Audax ,commute and fun,
SO THE ANSWER IS COMFORT AND MORE SPEED SOMETIMES?
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This is a good Question. Me only 15 year experience. Started with Kingcycle. ross orbit ,speedy etc.
Then, could not beat my commute time on an upright to my bike shop.
Now done 5500 miles scince feb on a Bacchetta ,Audax ,commute and fun,
SO THE ANSWER IS COMFORT AND MORE SPEED SOMETIMES?
Which Bacchetta?
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Got a giro 26 frame and built it to my spec.
Carbon forks ,700c 105 rims ,stronglight ,XTR and Euro mess.
Pretty light and quick I think?
LIke the look of the Carbon 2.0 tho?
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Got a giro 26 frame and built it to my spec.
Carbon forks ,700c 105 rims ,stronglight ,XTR and Euro mess.
Pretty light and quick I think?
LIke the look of the Carbon 2.0 tho?
Sounds nice.
Anything's faster than me on a giro 20 :D
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I would absolutely LOVE to add a Trice to the stable.
There, I've said it..
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Interesting to see this go live again. I never did complete my plans with the Peter Ross.
Part of the retirement lump sum miracalously turned into a new QNT and I nearly rolled it in Henley. Too fast down the hill, over the bridge into the left hand turn put it on two wheels. leaning into it, a little late, put it onto a different two wheels.
I'll be careful not to repeat the experience!
:D
Why? that's part of the fun ;) When you're at Watlington next, try the hill down past the campsite. It's Good for 50+mph and with a R/H corner at the bottom.
Thinking about this a bit .... but wouldn't a right hand turn at the bottom put you into the pub? :D
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A right turn right at the bottom would, but the one just after the steep bit before the campsite always has me braking and hanging out the side trying to keep at least 2 wheels down.
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You'll never get to my age if you ride like that ;D
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I had my first go on a bent at the weekend :thumbsup: And I have got to say I'm rather struck. In fact I'm condidering selling my lovely Airborne Zepp with Ksyrium wheels and all the goodies to finance one :o Do I need help?
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I had my first go on a bent at the weekend :thumbsup: And I have got to say I'm rather struck. In fact I'm condidering selling my lovely Airborne Zepp with Ksyrium wheels and all the goodies to finance one :o Do I need help?
Yes, if you ring Kevin at D-Tek (01353 648177) he can help you. ;D
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Since I now felt free to ease down into practice and much lower speeds instead of being overly concerned with performance and time limits, I took all of your advice and encouragement to heart got myself a second hand Toxy TT xs. It fits me like a glove (except maybe for the crankset), is reasonably light without ruining me completely and seems to be of a nice temper: I have done the first 67 kilometres and it hasn't thrown me yet, not even climbing at 5,5 km/h.
Climbing really is something else and I am afraid, I will need lots of practise and a good increase in speed if I ever want to finish an audax riding the bent, but hey, a challenge is not all about a personal best, learning a new skill at my age might be just the thing I need. Thank you :thumbsup:
Welcome to the dark side! As I never rode uprights like I ride my bent I don't know how long it will take to get about as fast as you are on the upright.
Climbing... well, you have seen me uphill, and before this year I never really climbed anything, since there are no hills in the Netherlands. You should take into account I'm a bit younger though.
Getting really used to a bent took me about 1000km. In the first 100km I was really disappointed with my speed, and got muscle pains on odd places, but after that I quickly got faster than I was on my upright, and then found out I could keep going for long quite easily. So then longer rides (100km+) came to mind, and then longer, and longer, and LEL.
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I started off with a Linear bought second hand from Neatwork in the late 80's and then added a Peter Ross Trice (again just after the square tube had been replaced.... this is me at RNAS Culdrose in 1994.
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b60/Cunobelin/TriceCuldrose.jpg)
I also run an early (elastomer suspension) Challenge Huricane and a 2002 Street Machine GT
I donated the Trice about two years ago and upgraded to a Catrike Expedition
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My second daughter married a Tricer at the weekend and his bestman had tried the Trice the week before and is smitten.
To be happy on the darkside it only takes a Trice :)
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Marj has a Trice.
We have being holidaying at Coverack for nearly 40 years & can remember when the main road passed thru' Culdrose RNAS & the traffic was halted for aircraft taking off & landing.A bit different to 1994 & now eh Cunobelin?
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Climbing... well, you have seen me uphill, and before this year I never really climbed anything, since there are no hills in the Netherlands. You should take into account I'm a bit younger though.
And you most certainly have longer legs.
Yes, seeing you ride up the Côte de Banneux was quite inspiring. As far as I'm concerned: I would be happy enough if I could stay with Björn while following you up there. :)
Getting really used to a bent took me about 1000km. In the first 100km I was really disappointed with my speed, and got muscle pains on odd places, but after that I quickly got faster than I was on my upright, and then found out I could keep going for long quite easily. So then longer rides (100km+) came to mind, and then longer, and longer, and LEL.
I could always go for as long as I cared to go, whatever the upright, so I could go back to that, if I don't get fast enough on the 'bent and want to continue doing audax, but at the moment I am busily looking for a training regimen to get me up to the necessary speed while leaning back. It would be so much more fun.
First really joyfull moment: Harsh crosswinds from the winds preceeding a thunderstorm, trees bending, sheding twigs, sand whirling up - and the bent just calmly made it's way. Then, turning right into this wind in a moment of craziness, really feeling the wind go over me, being able to ride steady if slow, not fighting to stay on the road like with the upright and looking up into that wild sky with those first flashes of lightning instead of bearing down, eyes glued to the tarmac.
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First really joyfull moment: Harsh crosswinds from the winds preceeding a thunderstorm, trees bending, sheding twigs, sand whirling up - and the bent just calmly made it's way. Then, turning right into this wind in a moment of craziness, really feeling the wind go over me, being able to ride steady if slow, not fighting to stay on the road like with the upright and looking up into that wild sky with those first flashes of lightning instead of bearing down, eyes glued to the tarmac.
Wow, that's near poetic. Lovely ;)
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Can I be the first on this thread to say .... don't get a recumbent. They are expensive, slow up hill and have more non standard parts.
Just imagine what a wonderful diamond frame you could get for the cost of a moderately priced recumbent.
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Can I suggest that you have a DF & a Recumbent ;D
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Climbing... well, you have seen me uphill, and before this year I never really climbed anything, since there are no hills in the Netherlands. You should take into account I'm a bit younger though.
And you most certainly have longer legs.
Yes, seeing you ride up the Côte de Banneux was quite inspiring. As far as I'm concerned: I would be happy enough if I could stay with Björn while following you up there. :)
Hm, never heard complaints about leg-length before, in climbs. I am riding with pretty much standard 170mm cranks, but I know at least 3 other people with 155s, two of them are about my length. One of them did PBP07, the other got serious knee issues while doing his series for that. I think after that he got the 155s.
I did ruin my right knee in December 2007, and since then I ride with a cadence meter. While climbing I stay around 90, unless it's really steep. On flats in long brevets 100-105. Otherwise 110-115. With my Rohloff hub in first gear at a cadence of 90 I do 7.3km/h, according Sheldon Browns calculator. I think about getting a 42 instead of a 39 in the front though. I'll do 7.8 then instead of 7.3km/h then.
Weren't you in the big group that I passed in/just outside Langholm, heading to Eskdalemuir? I had magic legs there. Now that I think of it, you probably weren't, since you left Alston when I arrived there.
If I keep up my cycling I'm afraid I'll be a lot faster next year. Maybe I'll take it easy until Banneux for the company, so we can compare braid-lengths again at the bakery, before I take off. ;)
I will repeat myself here: this was my first randonneur year, also the first year where I did over 10000km(with 4 months still to go), and it's still a couple of years before I'll be 30. I will be a lot stronger next year, if I keep it up.
First really joyfull moment: Harsh crosswinds from the winds preceeding a thunderstorm, trees bending, sheding twigs, sand whirling up - and the bent just calmly made it's way. Then, turning right into this wind in a moment of craziness, really feeling the wind go over me, being able to ride steady if slow, not fighting to stay on the road like with the upright and looking up into that wild sky with those first flashes of lightning instead of bearing down, eyes glued to the tarmac.
:)
Btw, the only pretty good picture I made with others on it during LEL has you in it:
http://arvid.org/lel2009/lel2009a.JPG (http://arvid.org/lel2009/lel2009a.JPG)
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Marj has a Trice.
We have being holidaying at Coverack for nearly 40 years & can remember when the main road passed thru' Culdrose RNAS & the traffic was halted for aircraft taking off & landing.A bit different to 1994 & now eh Cunobelin?
Certainly is!
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Hm, never heard complaints about leg-length before, in climbs. I am riding with pretty much standard 170mm cranks, but I know at least 3 other people with 155s, two of them are about my length. One of them did PBP07, the other got serious knee issues while doing his series for that. I think after that he got the 155s.
Crank length is always a very individual matter, but since I do have quite a bit shorter legs than someone your size, I even ride my upright with 165 mm cranks. I am not very comfortable with the 170 mm cranks that came on my bent. I can not spin decently, the whole movement is awkward and my knees do not like that at all. I expect to do much better with shorter cranks.
I'll worry about the perfect transmission ratio when I feel that I can ride the bent properly. At the moment I am happy about every low gear I have got. :-\
If I keep up my cycling I'm afraid I'll be a lot faster next year. Maybe I'll take it easy until Banneux for the company, so we can compare braid-lengths again at the bakery, before I take off. ;)
I will repeat myself here: this was my first randonneur year, also the first year where I did over 10000km(with 4 months still to go), and it's still a couple of years before I'll be 30. I will be a lot stronger next year, if I keep it up.
Most certainly you will become even stronger while I fight to keep, what I have got. That's life. I spent those strong years having and raising three children, so I can see every day, how strong young men get if they put their mind to it. ;)
And, btw: I can see that their hairs grow faster than mine, too. ;)
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Wow, that's near poetic. Lovely ;)
Thank you.
It just felt like that.
I used to find joy in battling and riding the wind or even thunderstorms on my upright before, but that always was about my strength and my skill, and had a very different quality and feel to it.
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My second daughter married a Tricer at the weekend and his bestman had tried the Trice the week before and is smitten.
To be happy on the darkside it only takes a Trice :)
Well Nobby, they say An ICE is Trice as nice :thumbsup: (sorry)