I don't think he understands them

[Beardy]

It's nice to get a mention in my morning read;
Bicycle Comics - Yehuda Moon and the Kickstand Cyclery |       

I can't make my mind up whether its a joke at the expense of Stu, or just that the author doesn't actually understand 'bents. I mean, invisible is the last thing we are

[clarion]

I think he's riffing on driver's prejudices.  I bet you've been told countless times that 'bents are dangerous cause they can't be seen, yet they are full of WTF-Factor.

[andygates]

Heh. 

[Cunobelin]

These cartoons are brilliant

They do play heavily on stereotypes and that is one of the reasons they are so clever.

[Quint]

When some idiot says my trike is invisible and or dangerous I always say that as their experience of riding recumbents and mileage must obviously be far in excess of mine  that I bow to their superiour knowledge, oh and how many recumbents have you (I tag on the end), usually pees them off

[Jon P]

Yes, the irony is that if they're complaining that you can't be seen, then they've seen you!  You do have to be careful though, esp on a lowracer or trike, eg if a car is overtaking you and not pulling out and indicating clearly, ie to show following drivers that there's a hazard ahead, they really won't know you're there as you'll have been obscured by the first car.

[EdinburghFixed]

That's the main way that upright riders get taken out though - it's nothing much to do with the height of the bike (since even a medium-size car, and of course any sort of 4x4/van will obscure a cyclist to the drivers behind).

I completely agree that you need to be far enough out to get each car to 'overtake' you rather than just slip past, but not because you are low down. It's a universal, and in fact the wierdness of lowracers (and especially trikes) increases the likelihood that a driver will move over to pass, because they're not blase about whipping by.

[Sigurd Mudtracker]

'bent trikes also seem to have a greater "perceived width" - there was a thread on this on BROL recently.  Certainly despite the fact that my trike is barely wider than my shoulders/handlebars, you get a lot more room on the road.  On my LWB two wheeler 'bent I get less clearance, but still more than on a  DF (perhaps it's to do with the wobbles!)

[Cudzoziemiec]

Some of the comments are... Well, like comments in many other places:

Great to see Rick realises Flag's don't make a difference! A pitty however that the recumbist is stereotyped as the beardy type (with socks in sandals I fear). 
Anyway, you should keep your bike (any bike) outside (or in the garage) and get on your feet when joining the party. The only visible give away might be the small mirror mounted on your glasses (aka helmet mirror, but it doesn'r require the helmet to be hooked on).

[mrcharly-YHT]

Riding alongside Arch in the dark, she disappeared from my peripheral vision very easily. Several times I strayed far too close before realising.

YMMV, but I found it worrying.

[EdinburghFixed]

Aye - but.... the funny thing about the whole recumbent/visible debate is not that there are times when you can be out of someone's sight (newsflash!) but that for some reason people are comfortable with *themselves* being out of sight but can't seem to understand why I am quite happy to ride a lower bike.

For example, 99.9% of people out there will happily ride downhill at 25mph+, in the bike lane in the door zone towards a notorious t-junction where drivers use the lane to nose out for a look - and the junction itself is obscured by closely parked 4x4s with tinted windows - so nobody can see them coming. I don't scream at them "WTF you are completely invisible you reckless w**ker" (although I often feel like it!)

But unfortunately, you'd be amazed at the number of cyclists who come up when I'm waiting in a queue and say something like "you really are quite invisible" with a shocked and passionately quivering voice. I then continue to sit in the queue, watching them scrape up the inside of the left-filter lane to get between some Lothian double-deckers to the ASL. The queue pulls away, mysteriously everybody manages not to run me over, and I pass them shortly, still riding in the traffic stream as they bump along in the gutter casting fearful glances over their shoulder for the next car to rap their elbow...

I think it's quite fair to say that you can get yourself in more trouble riding a recumbent badly - for example, if you make a habit of filtering up the side of left-turning HGVs there really is no chance that the driver will see you, but they just might see the helmet of an upright rider. However readily I agree with that, the fact that ~80% of cyclists killed in London are A) on upright bikes and B) alongside HGVs indicates that the prudent decision on either platform is just not to sit alongside a left-turning HGV!

I haven't ever really thought about riding alongside other riders. Whenever I do it I haven't experienced any problems, but perhaps I am keeping enough separation that I am still in sight at all times (plus I prefer to ride on the outside, so we get some more space from passing cars - and that's where their attention is more likely to be).

[rower40]

Kim, Charlotte and I, on three 2-wheeled 'bents of varying heights, had an awesome (*) ride through North Wales weekend-before-weekend-before-last.  I don't recall anyone not seeing us.

(*) For large values of "some".  While the ride was, possibly, FULL of awe, there's no way I'd describe it as awful.

But there were many comments of the "don't you find it dangerous down there?" type.  3 Pennys next time then, obv.

[Kim]

3 Pennys next time then, obv.

Can I ride a tallbike instead on knee grounds?

[rower40]

Can I ride a tallbike instead on knee grounds?

Grounding a knee is a different kind of biking altogether.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Are knee grounds a cannibal alternative to coffee grounds?

[Zoidburg]

It's funny how some of you have commented in another thread with "oh my god it's so dangerous!"

sit in a bus

And then deny the problem applies when it is being caused at the cyclists end of things.

[Quint]

Perfectly stated
                                               

       

Aye - but.... the funny thing about the whole recumbent/visible debate is not that there are times when you can be out of someone's sight (newsflash!) but that for some reason people are comfortable with *themselves* being out of sight but can't seem to understand why I am quite happy to ride a lower bike.

For example, 99.9% of people out there will happily ride downhill at 25mph+, in the bike lane in the door zone towards a notorious t-junction where drivers use the lane to nose out for a look - and the junction itself is obscured by closely parked 4x4s with tinted windows - so nobody can see them coming. I don't scream at them "WTF you are completely invisible you reckless w**ker" (although I often feel like it!)

But unfortunately, you'd be amazed at the number of cyclists who come up when I'm waiting in a queue and say something like "you really are quite invisible" with a shocked and passionately quivering voice. I then continue to sit in the queue, watching them scrape up the inside of the left-filter lane to get between some Lothian double-deckers to the ASL. The queue pulls away, mysteriously everybody manages not to run me over, and I pass them shortly, still riding in the traffic stream as they bump along in the gutter casting fearful glances over their shoulder for the next car to rap their elbow...

I think it's quite fair to say that you can get yourself in more trouble riding a recumbent badly - for example, if you make a habit of filtering up the side of left-turning HGVs there really is no chance that the driver will see you, but they just might see the helmet of an upright rider. However readily I agree with that, the fact that ~80% of cyclists killed in London are A) on upright bikes and B) alongside HGVs indicates that the prudent decision on either platform is just not to sit alongside a left-turning HGV!

I haven't ever really thought about riding alongside other riders. Whenever I do it I haven't experienced any problems, but perhaps I am keeping enough separation that I am still in sight at all times (plus I prefer to ride on the outside, so we get some more space from passing cars - and that's where their attention is more likely to be).

[Zoidburg]

I don't ride up the left hand side of HGVs.

I don't sit in a deck chair in the middle lane of rush hour traffic either.

[EdinburghFixed]

You should try it. To say that it rocks my world is a major understatement!

The funny thing is, whereas cyclists can't miss an opportunity to piss and whine (especially the sort of cyclist who just changed lanes without bothering to look behind them), quite a few drivers seem to love it. There are a couple of bits in Edinburgh rush hour where multiple lanes sit together (Picardy place roundabout?) and I get no end of friendly banter from the folks in the metal boxes, while the roadies especially are snottering and moaning as they scrape up the inside of the buses.

There was a good one this week where a very sincere chap was giving me the "you really are totally invisible" crap and a boy racer pulled up in the outside lane, all of them hanging out of the window and telling me (through the medium of "street" chat) that I was rocking their world and - of course - wanting to know how much it cost.

I did take a normal bike into town on "Pope Day", in the expectation of some sensational traffic jam action, but was sorely disappointed. Instead of an hour session working solid gridlock, hardly anyone had driven in and I had to get used to people trying to pass me in the same lane. (OK, the downhill tyres didn't help matters, but I was still going faster than your average gran).

Na, the easy life for me.

[Arch]

I don't sit in a deck chair in the middle lane of rush hour traffic either.

That would be daft, because, and I don't know if you realise this, but deckchairs don't move.  Sitting in anything immobile in the middle of the road would be daft.

Would you stand in the middle lane reading a book?  No? But you'd ride an upright?

As with all other recumbent riders, my experience is that I get more attention, and room, on the trike than on the uprights (yes, I ride both).  I appreciate that the plural of anecdote is not data, but I know how I feel, and that's safer on the trike.

[Zoidburg]

Draw the outline of a car.

Draw the ouline of a bent.

One fit's inside the other easily with very little showing above the car window sill or dash board, not my idea of something to go mixing in the rush hour traffic with - sooner or later someone is going to pull into a lane on top of you because they did not see you. It won't be a high sided vehicle or a HGV, it will be a perfectly normal car that could not see you.

I like head torches and bag lights for use on an uprights for the same reason, but that's mostly to protect against higher stuff like 4x4s and people carriers.

Can't be arsed with this argument now, it's just people sticking their head in the sand because the truth is inconvenient.

So you can afford to run a bent, well whoopy do.

I remain unimpressed.

[Quint]

I would say my recumbent trike is as economical to run as any upwrong, I have ridden solo cycles, tandems, tandem trikes etc etc, the most respect I have ever had from ALL types of vehicle inc buses and hgv is on my recumbent trike.
        Sheldon Brown once said he reckons people drive 95% of the time on auto pilot and when they encounter a recumbent it jogs them into WTF is that mode, I would agree with that.
         As the actress said to the bishop "just lay back and enjoy it"
                                                                

[Arch]

Draw the outline of a car.

Draw the ouline of a bent.

One fit's inside the other easily with very little showing above the car window sill or dash board, not my idea of something to go mixing in the rush hour traffic with - sooner or later someone is going to pull into a lane on top of you because they did not see you. It won't be a high sided vehicle or a HGV, it will be a perfectly normal car that could not see you.

I like head torches and bag lights for use on an uprights for the same reason, but that's mostly to protect against higher stuff like 4x4s and people carriers.

Can't be arsed with this argument now, it's just people sticking their head in the sand because the truth is inconvenient.

So you can afford to run a bent, well whoopy do.

I remain unimpressed.

With a great many cars/4x4s today, you can barely see an upright through them. Better hope you never get something behind you with tinted windows, which I see more and more. Or indeed a car that happens to have a tall passenger in the front.

If you think I'm bragging about having a recumbent to show off my wealth, you are very seriously mistaken. And as Quint says, they cost no more to run that any bike, so that's a really daft phrase to use. What do you think, we have to eat gold plated porridge or something?

If you don't like them, fine.  I do. The only reason I don't use mine day to day is that I can't store it at my flat, and also I don't want the scroats near where I work to see it parked up regularly in the same place.

[BBJ]

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so sure of themselves, and wiser men so full of doubt.

I like that Quint! Or may be wise men not holding to a fixed view.

I am lifted by the majority, looks and comments of encouragement, when on /in the trike; disappointed by the occassion disapproval from those who seem to think they know better.

Liberty, Egality, Fraternity. A legacy of the Age of Enlightenment!

Also" We will find evidence to support our belief system." (Richard Covey)

Happy cycling brothers and sisters, what ever you ride! Hope the others on the road have a good time to, (but they can't be having as much fun as on a recumbent!!!!!)  :0)

Could anyone direct me to the moral high ground?

[Quint]

It went thataway