Author Topic: [HAMR] Current thoughts on the record attempt?  (Read 252682 times)

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #600 on: 15 December, 2015, 01:03:06 pm »
If we're going to argue about mudguards (and why not, we've debated everything else), how about "mudguards don't actually slow you down, other than by adding weight to the bike"?

They can't possibly be any good for the aerodynamics basically acting like a funnel/baffle to the air you're cycling into. Therefore increasing the air resistance and thus the power required to go at the same speed without.

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/05/02/aerodynamics-of-real-world-bicycles/

"Well-mounted metal fenders do not affect the bike’s aerodynamics. The front section of each fender shields the tire and reduces the wind resistance, while the rear fender increases the aerodynamic drag. The two effects cancel each other."

As clear as mud. A front mudguard doesn't have a front section that shields the tyre so not sure what they are on about there and then they say the whole of the rear mudguard increases the drag.

Kim

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #601 on: 15 December, 2015, 01:04:39 pm »
Indeed.  But it's clearly not as simple as "can't possibly be any good for the aerodynamics".

Anyway, it's a marginal gain.  You worry about mudguards after you've gone recumbent.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #602 on: 15 December, 2015, 01:10:39 pm »
Mr Heine is talking about very close-fitting mudguards that very few Brits use, mostly because of lack of clearance for mud. I suspect that the results would be worse with normal SKS mudguards but it is a not particularly large effect anyway.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #603 on: 15 December, 2015, 01:18:56 pm »
Indeed.  But it's clearly not as simple as "can't possibly be any good for the aerodynamics".

Anyway, it's a marginal gain.  You worry about mudguards after you've gone recumbent.

I'm happy for it to be proved one way or another. My gut feeling is that it "can't possibly be any good for the aerodynamics". And yep as they proved anything you do to the bike is pretty marginal compared to the rider's position and clothing.

Kim

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #604 on: 15 December, 2015, 01:32:33 pm »
Meanwhile, the absence of mudguards could lead to illness, saddle sores or just general misery, which are much bigger problems than a marginal detriment to aerodynamics.  I'd want them any time outside the typical two weeks of British 'summer' when it's dry enough that you can reasonably expect there not to be puddles of field run-off.

As with vehicle transfers and so on, I think it's mostly a case of Steve knowing what works, and having been too busy getting on with it to explore other possibilities that might help some of the time.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #605 on: 15 December, 2015, 01:34:42 pm »
Sitting behind a strong large rider into a headwind would be helpful also.

With the record where TG left it, it requires thought and an excellent strategy as well as the physical talent to equal let alone break the record.  TG shouldn't be underestimated because the equipment, food and roads don't match 2015 standards.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #606 on: 15 December, 2015, 01:42:28 pm »

Meanwhile, the absence of mudguards could lead to illness, saddle sores or just general misery, which are much bigger problems than a marginal detriment to aerodynamics.  I'd want them any time outside the typical two weeks of British 'summer' when it's dry enough that you can reasonably expect there not to be puddles of field run-off.

As with vehicle transfers and so on, I think it's mostly a case of Steve knowing what works, and having been too busy getting on with it to explore other possibilities that might help some of the time.

Steve's bike weighs the same as my winter Condor - wouldn't want to ride that for a 365 day record attempt compared to my light bike.

I'm not convinced that Steve knows what works. I've helped him on three 24s after it taking 8 plus years to persuade him that help would be useful as would gears and fast wheels.  Steve admitted that yes, all of these allowed him to go further once he tried them.

In Steve's defence I'd say that right now his brain is so fuzzy with miles the ability to think things through is not particularly brilliant. He needs someone with the right knowledge to think the issues through for him, then work with him to come up with something that Steve has confidence in and is going to make a difference.

Kim

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #607 on: 15 December, 2015, 01:48:11 pm »
I'm not convinced that Steve knows what works. I've helped him on three 24s after it taking 8 plus years to persuade him that help would be useful as would gears and fast wheels.  Steve admitted that yes, all of these allowed him to go further once he tried them.

That's an interesting insight, and seems to fit with my general impression of Steve's original plan being "go out and ride a 300 every day for a year".


Quote
In Steve's defence I'd say that right now his brain is so fuzzy with miles the ability to think things through is not particularly brilliant. He needs someone with the right knowledge to think the issues through for him, then work with him to come up with something that Steve has confidence in and is going to make a difference.

Indeed.  I imagine it's hard to do that retrospectively.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #608 on: 15 December, 2015, 02:04:36 pm »
it's good to be stuck to your ways of doing things when you're in the flow. when things start to go pear shaped it's wise to listen to a coach or a mentor. let's hope for the winter without snow, no margin left for such events!

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #609 on: 15 December, 2015, 02:50:53 pm »
Steve has consistently said he'll do it his way, and no one can argue that he hasn't done that! But it became obvious in the summer that the mahoosive daily distances he'd planned on would not be consistently possible, even without weather, mopeds and bouts of sickness. The change of diet, however sensible prior to embarking on this challenge, really didn't help his daily distances - though it may well be that it was medically necessary.

The evidence suggest that Steve knows what he's doing - and that may be part of the problem. What he's doing is what he knows, and it's not working out how it needs to. If he can take up LWaB's offer, that could make a big difference - it's worked for Kurt.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #610 on: 15 December, 2015, 03:33:55 pm »
Not a suggestion as such, more just a thought about some kind of 'local' circuit; and there's probably a good reason why not...

Steve's favorite route to Marsh Gibbon (has to be), then ~5-6 laps of:



So more of a 'yoyo'...
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #611 on: 15 December, 2015, 03:41:41 pm »
Crossing the A41 near Blackthorn can be a right pig. Certainly wouldn't fancy it in poor visibility/weather during busy periods. Other than that it's not a bad route with a few undulations - the regular stamping ground for my club - Bicester Millennium CC.
9 miles SW of Marsh Gibbon

macnark

  • Cake and Tea solves all.
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #612 on: 15 December, 2015, 03:44:18 pm »
Ideally a loop would only have left turns so that you can keep left always and never need to come towards the centre of the road or cross oncoming traffc.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #613 on: 15 December, 2015, 03:44:44 pm »
Crossing the A41 near Blackthorn can be a right pig.

That was my immediate thought. Also the elevation gain is quite high compared to that for a similar circuit in the fens. This is where kurts strategy of a mobile "home" would come into it's won.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #614 on: 15 December, 2015, 03:58:38 pm »
Yes, Fens circuit would be good from a Travelodge (or host).  Book in for a few days and... go for it. 

Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #615 on: 15 December, 2015, 03:59:22 pm »
Ideally a loop would only have left turns so that you can keep left always and never need to come towards the centre of the road or cross oncoming traffc.

Good point. Maybe tweak the route to go straight on from Caversfield to Launton, then take a left into Station Road. Would avoid the stretch on the busy A4421 with a right turn across traffic towards Stratton Audley.

/edit/ just realised that I've assumed a clockwise circuit, but anti-clockwise might be better.
9 miles SW of Marsh Gibbon

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #616 on: 15 December, 2015, 04:16:51 pm »
30 miles is too long a loop - it needs to be short enough that Steve can quickly bolt for home in poor weather or pick up food.  Short loops make it easy to meet up with local riders and to get them to help.  I suggested two ~5mile routes a few pages ago.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #617 on: 15 December, 2015, 04:38:28 pm »
My gut (FWIW) is that 5mls would be too short*; but in the immediate MK area it would probably need to be shorter to keep elevation down...  On a 30-50km loop people would still have a reasonable chance of locating/meeting/supplying Steve. 

*despite Steve having done the MK bowl.
Cycle and recycle.   SS Wilson

Jaded

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #618 on: 15 December, 2015, 04:42:08 pm »
15,000 loops of the same route sounds a tad dull.   :o
It is simpler than it looks.

mattc

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #619 on: 15 December, 2015, 04:48:08 pm »
15,000 loops of the same route sounds a tad dull.   :o
er ... yes.

Surely its fairly accepted that this is a tough mental challenge the way Steve is currently doing it? I don't see making him ride 20km loops of MK (or surroundings) is gonna help.

He's an adventurer, a cycle-tourist if you will. This is a chance to see some countryside. Let's see the rest of you ride 12x30km loops/day just for a WEEK!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #620 on: 15 December, 2015, 04:53:18 pm »
If Steve wants an adventure that is one thing but he has signed up to beat the record. That is the objective, not going out and having a good time.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #621 on: 15 December, 2015, 05:07:40 pm »
If Steve wants an adventure that is one thing but he has signed up to beat the record. That is the objective, not going out and having a good time.
So I guess you don't see the mental side as important?

We shall have to disagree on this.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Wowbagger

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #622 on: 15 December, 2015, 05:12:06 pm »
If Steve wants an adventure that is one thing but he has signed up to beat the record. That is the objective, not going out and having a good time.

One of the points made before the start of the challenge at this time last year was the different approaches that Kurt & Steve were taking. Steve was doing it as a audaxer, Kurt as a racer. I think it was Steve himself who made that point, but I am not sure. I think it was on a television news interview where he first mentioned Kurt. "He's really fast. This will be like the hare and the tortoise." I think were the words he used.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #623 on: 15 December, 2015, 05:14:30 pm »
This will be like the hare and the tortoise." I think were the words he used.

That's the problem.  There aren't enough hours in the day for the tortoise approach unfortunately, and that's been clear from early on.
The sound of one pannier flapping

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #624 on: 15 December, 2015, 05:15:42 pm »
If Steve wants an adventure that is one thing but he has signed up to beat the record. That is the objective, not going out and having a good time.
So I guess you don't see the mental side as important?
We shall have to disagree on this.
Obviously Steve doesn't see the mental side important enough to want to have company on his rides...
This will be like the hare and the tortoise." I think were the words he used.
That's the problem.  There aren't enough hours in the day for the tortoise approach unfortunately, that that's been clear from early on.
...and this particular hare ain't having no nap.