Author Topic: [HAMR] Current thoughts on the record attempt?  (Read 252666 times)

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #775 on: 19 December, 2015, 11:23:17 am »
Is the purpose of the thread to help Steve or to have a discussion? He doesn't have to read it. In fact, if I was him would avoid any thread with a title like this at a time when the challenge has become a struggle. (Unless I decided I needed advice on how to change things.) TBH if you are talking about helping him I'm not sure how repeating 'Steve knows best' is of much assistance when things haven't gone as planned.

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #776 on: 19 December, 2015, 11:26:23 am »
I remain far from convinced that anyone, with the (possible) exception of Steve and Kurt, realised just how hard breaking this record was going to be.
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mattc

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #777 on: 19 December, 2015, 11:28:03 am »
Ah, the Free Speech argument!

As long you're happy Freya ...
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #778 on: 19 December, 2015, 11:30:15 am »
Do any of you think that all this negative talk doesn't have a negative effect on Steve?   How is it helping him at all?

Firstly, like you, Steve has the choice of whether to read this or not. Secondly, if you expect a venture like this to pass without commentary from the full range of opinions and expertise, you're dreaming. Like all great (and not so great) challenges, it will prompt praise, conversation, speculation and criticism. If Steve didn't have a thick skin before 2015, he has probably developed one by now!

In any case, as I've already said, I don't think any of the above can be construed as malicious criticism. Yes, we're pretty much all armchair experts - as we are with football, Formula 1, the application of the law, politicians, drug-taking in sport, who is or isn't a twat, what motorists should do, and just about any other topic that appears on YACF. It's a board for idle conversation and gossip, much of it uninformed or just plain wrong. This thread, rather unusually, is almost unanimous in its support for and admiration of its subject - the HAM'R challenge and those who've taken it on. That there's discussion about its outcome and its conduct is natural.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #779 on: 19 December, 2015, 11:33:04 am »
I've kept very quiet in this whole thing, and won't comment on strategies/diets/etc etc. What Steve has chosen to do is his decision, whether I have felt things are right or wrong, that's not my call.

PB, yes, Steve probably does read all this, and it may have a negative effect. But would it be better for everyone to just say Go Steve, Go Steve every day, even though things may not be all well. I don't want Steve to feel any external pressure to continue with this at the expense of his own long term health.

If Steve feels he needs a few lesser miles days and he can catch it up, then that's all well and good. But if he isn't well, and it's not improving, running himself to breaking point or worse just quite frankly isn't worth it. Whether he wants another attempt in a year or so using what he has learnt, or enough is enough, then I'm sure people will be with him either way and would fund it again.

But I like Steve a lot, I count him as a friend, and I would hate to see him do some permanent or serious damage. There IS more to life than the record, we know Steve is a phenomenal long distance rider, he has had some bad luck for sure. When you are so tired, so broken, and so focused, it can be very hard to look rationally at things, and beyond the one thing you desperately want to achieve.

Personally, I would much rather see Steve stop now, or at least at the end of the month, recover, sort the diet stuff out, use what he has learnt and maybe try again in a year or so- from where I'm sitting it looks like it's slipped away, but he may not feel like that, and have some sort of plan, but of course it has all been so secretive- which I've never understood. I want to go and look after him, give him a cuddle and mother him for a while!!! But it's nothing to do with me, not my decision. I think a lot of people are also just showing concern, not knocking Steve. I would do anything to help him.

If he feels ok in himself, then fine, ride away. I just hope he is not beyond exhausted that he can't make rational decisions, and hope he is getting advice from somewhere.


Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #780 on: 19 December, 2015, 11:41:21 am »
Ah, the Free Speech argument!

As long you're happy Freya ...

Ah, so the only posts about Steve to be allowed are ones that you approve of.

Get real - it's a public attempt and cannot be immune to comment and criticism.

You don't need to be a long distance cycling expert to see the second attempt is in big trouble and almost bound to fail.

Obvious next question is what to do about that.

Steve has never shown himself capable of riding 210+mile days consecutively for months on end.

Thus a big rethink is needed.

Stopping at the end of this year and aiming for a restart in Jan 2017 would give some time to devise and test a strategy.


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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #781 on: 19 December, 2015, 12:27:57 pm »
I have managed PBP, LEL, LEJoG at about 200 miles a day. I was knackered at the end and time some some time off to gather my strength. I did LEJoG again this year at about 120 miles a day and thought I could have gone on for another ride and could have ridden home at the end. We all have our limits and Steve looks like he has found his. I hope it is just a blip and he is back on his game and we all feel relieved.

In other posts I have mentioned diet and any new attempt should take a long look at this. One thing we forget is that in the 1930s food had a lot more goodness. Intensive farming has kept the calories the same, but has reduced the minerals, vitamins and trace elements. Processed food has the lowest concentration of goodness. This will not be easy to sort out and although Kurt has done a few well publicised junk food eating sessions I always thought there was some proper food being prepared every night.

I hope I feel foolish for writing this and Steve powers on to set the record, but long term issues appear to have set in.

BB
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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #782 on: 19 December, 2015, 01:05:48 pm »
Last three posts are excellent.  Lady Cavendish please do post more as yours was well worth the read and full of very sound sense.

mattc

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #783 on: 19 December, 2015, 01:14:28 pm »
Ah, the Free Speech argument!

As long you're happy Freya ...

Ah, so the only posts about Steve to be allowed are ones that you approve of.
Nope, I didnt say that.

( I cant currently be arsed with a debate about free speech here - see elsewhere, you'll find that it's been examined quite extensively! )
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #784 on: 19 December, 2015, 01:18:10 pm »
Steve's doing three things at once. The Tommy Godwin Record attempt, the One Year Time Trial and the HAMR.

The Godwin record was originally within the context of the Cycling magazine mile-eater award. Steve's got that sewn up within the UK.

The One Year Time trial should be just that in my opinion. I've seen Steve do the 24 many times. He's kept coming back, because it's just something you do if you're that kind of cyclist. Winning doesn't come into it, it's a way of testing what you are capable of on an annual basis.

The HAMR is something you can start any time, in any place, and seems to inhabit planet Strava.

Comments on here are about the Tommy Godwin Record Attempt, which was the original driver of what Steve is doing. The One Year Time Trial crew don't comment here, that's something that inhabits planet Facebook. It's all become a bit tangled, with three sets of 'stakeholders', but there's just one Steve.

Plenty of high-profile cyclists start record attempts, and pack when they're not on track. That Bruce Berkeley has had a go at the LEJOGLE record twice, and pulled out with a knee problem both times. That's seen as a 'soft' record, as it's not RRA sanctioned. There seem to be attempts on various LEJOG records every year. http://road.cc/content/news/160466-bike-mechanic-attempt-record-cycling-land-s-end-john-o-groats-and-back-again

The 'One Year Time Trial' is the easiest story to comprehend, Steve's a couple of weeks away from completing that. Whether he carries on with the HAMR restart is up to him.


mattc

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #785 on: 19 December, 2015, 01:22:42 pm »
In other posts I have mentioned diet and any new attempt should take a long look at this. One thing we forget is that in the 1930s food had a lot more goodness. Intensive farming has kept the calories the same, but has reduced the minerals, vitamins and trace elements. Processed food has the lowest concentration of goodness. This will not be easy to sort out and although Kurt has done a few well publicised junk food eating sessions I always thought there was some proper food being prepared every night.
Think you're right.

Of course we know Steve/team have looked at his diet recently and made BIG changes. Which hopefully will pay off in the long term.

I'm certain Kurt is eating a lot of good stuff, and just posts about the Krispy Kremes (or whatever!) for a bit of light relief. IIRC they posted a piccie quite recently showing loads of modern "healthy" sports drinks/supplements/snacks?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #786 on: 19 December, 2015, 01:22:48 pm »
( I cant currently be arsed with a debate about free speech here - see elsewhere, you'll find that it's been examined quite extensively! )

Your posts over the past year have consistently represented the worst aspects of any forum discussion - defensive, patronising and aggressive in equal measure.  You profess to support Steve - you don't have a monopoly in that position, and your attitude is doing Steve absolutely no favours.
The sound of one pannier flapping

mattc

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #787 on: 19 December, 2015, 01:28:37 pm »
( I cant currently be arsed with a debate about free speech here - see elsewhere, you'll find that it's been examined quite extensively! )

Your posts over the past year have consistently represented the worst aspects of any forum discussion - defensive, patronising and aggressive in equal measure.  You profess to support Steve - you don't have a monopoly in that position, and your attitude is doing Steve absolutely no favours.
Thanks for that!

Luckily I know my relationship with Steve quite well. Of course input from random strangers on the internet is always welcome - nothing is beyond comment in this day and age  :thumbsup:
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #788 on: 19 December, 2015, 02:01:52 pm »
You profess to support Steve - you don't have a monopoly in that position, and your attitude is doing Steve absolutely no favours.

Quite.

The head-in-the-sand foolishness and all the naive "in Steve we trust", "don't question the strategy", "Steve knows what he's doing" nonsense is doing his record attempt a far greater dis-service than all the constructive criticism that is actually getting posted here (from people who all clearly want the best outcome for Steve). 

It's been obvious for months that the strategy is seriously flawed as a record-breaking strategy (which is the stated aim), rather than as a 'let's see how many miles can be done fighting headwinds for hours each day on a heavy touring bike' strategy.  The deniers would have done well to put their effort into convincing Steve that his strategy was just going to achieve the latter, rather than encourage him into wasting all that effort instead of re-thinking.

Unless breaking the record wasn't really ever that important compared with just having a year or two off work cycling all day.....

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #789 on: 19 December, 2015, 02:24:14 pm »
I struggle to understand why there has not been an attempt to try something different?  Be it motor transfers, pacing in a group, going abroad, riding a short, fast loop, changing the bike ect ect.   You have to assume the will or intent to change is just not there

With that in mind, at the moment this is looking more like self harm than a serious record attempt - and I find that sad because I think Steve could break the record with better strategy.   

His ability to get up everyday regardless of conditions to sit and peddle a bike for hours is unparalleled.... his ability to cover ground, quickly and easily enough to sustain the record attempt is however in question.   Some fast, flat miles drafting some other riders seems to me the only way to pull himself out of this.   


LMT

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #790 on: 19 December, 2015, 02:58:43 pm »
Foghat has it right.

LMT

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #791 on: 19 December, 2015, 03:00:29 pm »
Do any of you think that all this negative talk doesn't have a negative effect on Steve?   How is it helping him at all?

it's constructive criticism. Sometimes the rider does not know best.

hillbilly

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #792 on: 19 December, 2015, 04:13:45 pm »
I would like to think Steve will realise that many of the post over the past couple of days basically reflect that most of us care for his happiness and wellbeing, as well as whether or not he achieves the record.  Most of us can empathise with his efforts, even if we can't fully understand what he is going through.

I could also see why he has apparently ruled out many of suggestions made in recent weeks, in the context of his preferred modus operandi.  Just because a suggestion is made, it doesn't make it a sensible one to follow.  And in that spirit, I'll suggest he sticks to the usual audax trick of focusing on the short term when things aren't going to plan, in the expectation that things will get better.  Which they will, surely.

mattc

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #793 on: 19 December, 2015, 04:44:00 pm »
Do any of you think that all this negative talk doesn't have a negative effect on Steve?   How is it helping him at all?

it's constructive criticism. Sometimes the rider does not know best.
I would say there is a wide variety of criticism on this thread. Some of it is constructive. Some of it is stuff like this:
Quote
Unless breaking the record wasn't really ever that important compared with just having a year or two off work cycling all day.....

To me - speaking as a friend of Steve - I just find this snide and nasty.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #794 on: 19 December, 2015, 05:33:55 pm »
Do any of you think that all this negative talk doesn't have a negative effect on Steve?   How is it helping him at all?

it's constructive criticism. Sometimes the rider does not know best.

And neither do the vocal critics and self-appointed experts.   How is Steve supposed to adopt hundreds of differing and disjointed views.   Coaching and managment is about cohesion, strategy and planning, not disparate and random musings.   

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #795 on: 19 December, 2015, 05:46:40 pm »
Mike, this isn't a coaching manual, it's a conversation.  There's no-one on here who doesn't wish Steve well, or think that he is more important than a record.

Peter

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Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #796 on: 19 December, 2015, 05:48:15 pm »
Mike, this isn't a coaching manual, it's a conversation.  There's no-one on here who doesn't wish Steve well, or think that he is more important than a record.

Peter

Peter, there are one or two posting on here for whom Steve appears to matter little.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #797 on: 19 December, 2015, 05:56:26 pm »
J, I haven't read them all, so I've probably missed them, sorry.  What I find impossible to do is to equate concern for Steve's wellbeing with being negative.  I certainly have absolutely no qualifications to suggest how Steve should approach record-breaking.  But I care about him.

Ben T

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #798 on: 19 December, 2015, 10:27:52 pm »
Steve carries on not cos it's good strategy but cos he's an audaxer, it's just what he does - like scorpion and frog.
If he is calling it a day he might as well at least see the year out, there's only ten or so days left now, even if the chances of breaking the record are minimal.

Ben T

Re: Current thoughts on the record attempt?
« Reply #799 on: 19 December, 2015, 10:31:30 pm »

Unless breaking the record wasn't really ever that important compared with just having a year or two off work cycling all day.....
get the impression seeing how far an audax style strategy could go towards breaking the record is an important part, possibly more important than actually becoming the record holder.