PDQ - the wheels

[nobby]

I've ordered a pair of black rims from ICE - I'm nowhere near as ostentatious as Quint - and I will be lacing the rear one to an Alfine 11 Internal Gear Hub.
The Alfine normally has a disc brake but the PDQ has V brakes. Will the hub need building with offset to compensate for something or the other and, if so, how do I calculate that?
Is it anything to do with half the over locknuts measurement minus half the over hub flanges distance? Or similar? Or something?

Answers light on acronyms may be understood immediately 

Cheers

[Quint]

  

[nobby]

Thank you Quint but I see no numbers in your answer 

I have found a Shimano detail sheet that says offset for Alfine Inter 11 is 3.15mm. Is that what I need to know for calculating spoke lengths?

[jsabine]

It may be part of the answer.

Personally, I'd download Damon Rinard's spocalc.xls (linked from Sheldon's site). It has a fairly extensive database of hubs and rims already, and I've found it accurate for the (admittedly limited) range I've built with. If you can't find the Alfine and your rim, Sheldon has details of how to measure both with sufficient accuracy for the calculator to give a sensible answer.

[nobby]

It may be part of the answer.

Personally, I'd download Damon Rinard's spocalc.xls (linked from Sheldon's site). It has a fairly extensive database of hubs and rims already, and I've found it accurate for the (admittedly limited) range I've built with. If you can't find the Alfine and your rim, Sheldon has details of how to measure both with sufficient accuracy for the calculator to give a sensible answer.

Thanks for that. I'll have a go in the morn when I am feeling more awake!
Cheers

[nobby]

It may be part of the answer.

Personally, I'd download Damon Rinard's spocalc.xls (linked from Sheldon's site). It has a fairly extensive database of hubs and rims already, and I've found it accurate for the (admittedly limited) range I've built with. If you can't find the Alfine and your rim, Sheldon has details of how to measure both with sufficient accuracy for the calculator to give a sensible answer.

All the Damon Rinard links to spokes are broken!

[Auntie Helen]

I would suggest asking ICE for advice. My Alfine-hubbed rear wheel that they did had unusual dishing to be right.

[nobby]

I would suggest asking ICE for advice. My Alfine-hubbed rear wheel that they did had unusual dishing to be right.

Cheers Aunty H
I did ask when I was buying the rims and they just referred me to Yourspokes who, in turn, referred me to an online spoke calculator.
Are you running a rear disc on your Trice?

Oh well, it can't be that hard!

[Auntie Helen]

No, I just have a rim parking brake on the back.

[nobby]

No, I just have a rim parking brake on the back.

Thank you.
So you have the Alex 100 rim?
If that is so the spoke lengths would be the same for me and ICE ought have a record.

[Auntie Helen]

Don't know which rim offhand (except it is cool and black) but it is less than two years old so ICE will indeed have a record. They sold me the rim and spokes and Madison built the wheel with a new replacement Alfine hub.

[rogerzilla]

3.15mm offset is not very much difference and you should be able to use the same length spokes on each side provided you round down (a spoke 2mm too short is much less of a problem than one which is 2mm too long).  Is the frame itself offset?  This is unusual but sometimes done to reduce wheel dish.

If ICE can't give you spoke lengths, measuring the ERD of the rims is easy when you have one in your hands.  Put two nipples in opposing rim holes, hold them in with tape or have an asssitant hold them, measure the distance between the inward=facing ends of the nipples and then subtract twice their nominal length (usually 12mm each, so 24mm) to get the exact ERD.  Hub dimensions are a little more tricky to measure (flange distance from centre line takes some care and it's most accurate to measure the distance from the opposite locknut and do a bit of maths).  But ERD, pattern and spoke hole circle diameter have the biggest influence.

[nobby]

Don't know which rim offhand (except it is cool and black) but it is less than two years old so ICE will indeed have a record. They sold me the rim and spokes and Madison built the wheel with a new replacement Alfine hub.

Thank you

[nobby]

3.15mm offset is not very much difference and you should be able to use the same length spokes on each side provided you round down (a spoke 2mm too short is much less of a problem than one which is 2mm too long).  Is the frame itself offset?  This is unusual but sometimes done to reduce wheel dish.

If ICE can't give you spoke lengths, measuring the ERD of the rims is easy when you have one in your hands.  Put two nipples in opposing rim holes, hold them in with tape or have an asssitant hold them, measure the distance between the inward=facing ends of the nipples and then subtract twice their nominal length (usually 12mm each, so 24mm) to get the exact ERD.  Hub dimensions are a little more tricky to measure (flange distance from centre line takes some care and it's most accurate to measure the distance from the opposite locknut and do a bit of maths).  But ERD, pattern and spoke hole circle diameter have the biggest influence.

I don't think that the frame is offset but I'll make a careful check.
ICE gave me the ERD of the rim but were oddly reluctant to say what the spoke lengths would be even though I said it would be having an Alfine IG hub. I'll press them harder on Monday.
In the tech sheet I found on line it gives a flange diameter of 104.3mm and a PCD of 92.6mm. I've read that PCD is Pitch Cirle Diameter, is that the same as the spoke holes diameter? I do think, however, that spoke hole diameter should be easy to measure thanks to Sheldon Brown's instructions.
Thanks for your help.

[cycleman]

Thank you Quint but I see no numbers in your answer 

I have found a Shimano detail sheet that says offset for Alfine Inter 11 is 3.15mm. Is that what I need to know for calculating spoke lengths?

If you want numbers nobby I would use 42 as that is the answer to everything  .

[nobby]

Thank you Quint but I see no numbers in your answer 

I have found a Shimano detail sheet that says offset for Alfine Inter 11 is 3.15mm. Is that what I need to know for calculating spoke lengths?

If you want numbers nobby I would use 42 as that is the answer to everything  .

1. As soon as I saw your name I thought,"This ain't going to be useful!"
2. I've never understood how 42 can be the answer to anything other than 2x3x7. Whereas 47 is a prime number - not unlike myself 

[cycleman]

But it must be useful  :oo .I read it in a book with don't panic in nice friendly letters on the cover   

[nobby]

But it must be useful  :oo .I read it in a book with don't panic in nice friendly letters on the cover   

Fantasy, as I recall!

[Quint]

Thank you Quint but I see no numbers in your answer 

I have found a Shimano detail sheet that says offset for Alfine Inter 11 is 3.15mm. Is that what I need to know for calculating spoke lengths?

                      http://www.yourspokes.co.uk/   this man (Dylan Thomas) is the man you need, ring him with what you want, he will make/cut spokes to custom requirements, he is damn good

                   

[nobby]

Thank you Quint but I see no numbers in your answer 

I have found a Shimano detail sheet that says offset for Alfine Inter 11 is 3.15mm. Is that what I need to know for calculating spoke lengths?

                      http://www.yourspokes.co.uk/   this man (Dylan Thomas) is the man you need, ring him with what you want, he will make/cut spokes to custom requirements, he is damn good

                 

He recommended an online spoke calculator!
I'd pay extra if he does a bit of poetry an' all. I particularly like that one about not dying quietly

[Mr Larrington]

But the only rims he uses are starless and bible-black ones.

[nobby]

But the only rims he uses are starless and bible-black ones.

[PaulM]

I suggest you build it in an undished fashion. Just get the rim centred between the flanges. So same length spokes on both sides.

[nobby]

I gave up! ICE gave me the sizes of Aunty H's spokes and I tested them against two different calculators and ended up with three different results. Not big differences but enough to make me unsure of ordering at 40p a spoke.
So I phones Dylan Thomas, and what a lovely chap he is. I commended him on his poetry and reminisced about my visit to his house and garage in S. Wales, and then ended up sending him the rims and hubs

Never mind. I'm putting a hundred quids worth of wheels, not counting the cost of the Alfine 11,  into what may yet prove to be a frame I don't like! It will all work out OK. I don't know why but it does 

[Quint]

Knowing (or knowing about) people like this is one of the things that makes life special, to me anyway and I am sure most if not all of you on here, people who know their field inside out, and are still friendly and accomodating