New recumbent trike for Auntie Helen - an ICE Sprint Special!

[tonycollinet]

I carry a small hex key which fits into the hole on the rotating gear change mech on the alfine. This allows easy slackening of the cable, to unhook it from the hub. Takes but a moment, and after that wheel removal is as easy or easier than derailleur.

[Auntie Helen]

Have you got an Alfine on your Sprint then, Tony? I thought the only other one went across the pond...

[rower40]

I carry a small hex key which fits into the hole on the rotating gear change mech on the alfine. This allows easy slackening of the cable, to unhook it from the hub. Takes but a moment, and after that wheel removal is as easy or easier than derailleur.

I find a centre-punch is ideal for this purpose.  Pointy, so it locates in the hole, and with a knurled body so it's easy to pull the gear-change thingy round.  (Proud owner of 2 alfines, both on uprights.)

[PaulM]

I had a closer look at my Sprint. The cables on the left handlebar (for left brake and FD) are pressing a little on the track rod which has the effect of pulling the left handlebar forward towards the track rod. This doesn't really turn the wheels when picking up the front end, but when rolling it may be enough to turn the handlebars because with each little bump the wheels will tend to be bumped to the right.

It's not the tracking. There was 3mm toe in when I collected the trike but I adjusted it to parallel. I  also rotated the rear wheel to vertical because it wasn't.

I can't understand how wheel dishing would pull the trike in one direction. Could an improperly installed headset do it? I've no reason to think one of them is wrong but I recall a suggestion on BROL along those lines, though it was in relation to a Tour Easy and not a trike.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Wheel dishing on a trike affects the relationship of the tyre contact patch with the 'head angle'/steering axis.

[Wowbagger]

Why would you want to dish a trike's wheel?

[Kim]

Because of the above, presumably.  To make a wheel built around a chunky dynamo hub geometrically equivalent to a normal wheel?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

To shift where a tyre is in relation to the end of the hub is one reason.

Trikes often have inclined axles and usually inclined steering axis. Significantly changing the tyre size could easily lead to excessive bump steer unless the wheel dish is changed to compensate. If the tyre contact patch is much to the side of the steering axis, the wheel will tend to pivot around the axis just from normal rolling resistance.

[Auntie Helen]

So... final bits of trike preparation/building after a few days of riding.

Trike brought into the kitchen so we can work on it whilst listening to the Tour de France on the TV in the lounge...



Five jobs today. Finalising the fitting of the front light before the Dunwich Dynamo on Saturday; fitting of the front mudguards; fitting of the cheap 'n nasty cycle computer; fitting the LHS bar end with mirror; fitting the bottle cage.

As you can no doubt imagine, I left the difficult job (front light) to James and did the rest myself!

I had transferred the 'skirt' (manky bit of high-vis vest) from the old trike to the new one. I do feel it helps visibility and the orange bit on it is super-reflective. I really ought to get a new one though - this is rather discoloured after a year or so's use.



Now I've got the boom length right James was going to shorten the light cables. Out came the gas-powered soldering iron.



The finished light! We changed the over-large washer at the front which looked ugly but which was all we had to hand when originally fitting the light. We now have a smaller, ugly, washer. We could paint it the same red as the trike as ICE sent me a set of the paint but I suspect we won't get round to it!



I fitted the front mudguards, the cycle computer, taped up the cabling from the cycle computer so it was out of sight below the frame crossmember, added the bottle cage... which wasn't the same red as the trike, unfortunately; I would have done better with a black one. I had to order from ICE the cycle computer mount as with disc brakes there isn't a suitable place to mount the sensor as there is with drum brakes.

Whilst ordering the cycle computer mount I also ordered a bar-end for the left hand side (I had already ordered a bar-end mirror). This arrived and I realised that the cable from the shifter meant I couldn't screw up one of the two bar-end bolts. However, ingenuity struck and I used a cable tie to hold it together. It managed 20 miles last night unscathed so seems to work!



It does mean that it's hard to reach the shifter with your hand gripping the handlebar as normal. Make that impossible, unless I had fingers like Mr Tickle. So to change gear I lift my hand over the bar-end and do the shifting. It's not elegant but I find I need the mirror that side. I could potentially mount it lower down which I may do but then what would I do with the bell...



So here we are, ready to roll on the Dunwich Dynamo...



Trike has now done 69.3 miles and is just brilliant - the hub gear especially. It feels much tighter and less rattly than the old Trice Q, although presumably after 25,000 miles this trike might not feel quite so together. What has been interesting is that I've got fairly tired leg muscles from cycling Alfie just 12 miles or so - which suggests the seating position is different enough that the muscles are being exercised in a different pattern. Which means the 120 miles of the Dunwich Dynamo might be a bit of a challenge. It feels as if I'm sitting in the same place with the boom the same length but clearly not...

[Auntie Helen]

Just had a bit of a mega shock. I looked at the invoice for the mirror mount and the cycle computer widget and the mirror mount was almost £30. NO WAY would I have ever bought this if I had known beforehand (which I didn't). I bought a pair of mirror mounts for a tenner a couple of years ago (BBB ones) so I was expecting it to be about a fiver or a little bit more. I've fitted it so I can't return it but needless to say I'll ensure I ask for the cost of parts in future before getting them.

This means my mirror mount and cycle computer sensor arm cost almost £50 together. Gulp. That's the price of a bike a tesco!

[Kim]

Yes, the ICE price list is a funny beast.

For the baraktacycle - if there ever is a baraktacycle - we've decided to only go for the absolute extremely-ICE-specific essentials (racks, mudguards) and worry about computer mounts and the like later.  There's a lot that can be botched successfully with bar ends, cable ties and PVC pipe, and I remain unconvinced that the computer sensor wouldn't be better off on the chainstay anyway.

On the other hand, an ICE mirror mount and sensor arm are still going to be going strong when the third replacement tesco bike is declared too much effort to get a refund on and is ceremonially chucked in a skip. 

[tonycollinet]

Have you got an Alfine on your Sprint then, Tony? I thought the only other one went across the pond...

No, Alfine on my hybrid

On my ICE, I have the mirror mount below the bar grip - works fine there, and you can fit it underneath the cable.

[Auntie Helen]

Report after one week

So... after a week of Alfie and 193.67 miles I thought I'd summarise my experiences so far.

Firstly, the trike is utterly fab. Utterly. And it still looks clean and shiny (which is a miracle with me as an owner). And attracts many admiring glances (this is a group of chums before the Dunwich Dynamo)



The major highlights (to be detailed further below) are:

1. Hub gear.
2. Dynamo and light.
3. Quiet running.

Alfine-11 Hub Gear
The hub gear has been a real revelation to me. Now I know most people get on fine with derailleurs but I have always found them awkward - dirty, noisy things that never index quite right. I seemed to always be in the wrong gear at inappropriate moments (i.e. in top after an emergency stop). I also found that changing the cassette every 6,000-8,000 miles meant twice a year to me and the micro cassette is nearly £70 so the cost added up. I also had the one memorable experience when the gear hanger got bent on my old trike (possibly hit a stone when riding?) and I had to be rescued by car. So a hub gear seemed like a good idea. The 14-speed Rohloff was too expensive (plus ICE aren't keen) but the Shimano Alfine seemed a better option, especially with their new 11-speed one.

So how does it ride? ICE suggested I might find the rear wheel felt heavier to ride but that hasn't been the case. It feels just like the other trike in terms of effort to get it started. The other trike's low-hanging jockey wheels were usually full of gunk and grass so this may account for extra drag on the derailleur system, but whenever I cleaned it out it got mucky again very quickly.

It seems much, much quieter than the derailleur. At speed I can hear a low whine from the back if I listen out for it but if I have panniers on it masks the sound and it's not that significant anyway. There aren't any of the ticking sounds I used to get from my derailleur system (the jockey wheels?).

And the magic thing is that when I approach a junction at full speed, ready to slam the brakes on (and with discs I can stop VERY quickly) if there's a car coming and I have to stop I can change gear when stationary and then pull away comfortably, rather than doing myself an injury trying to pull away in the top gear on the Trice Q (which was, I believe, 110 inches).

The Alfine hub also has a wider gear range. ICE did explain to me what it was but my brain doesn't retain that kind of information, suffice to say it feels like one or two higher gears at the top end and three or four lower gears at the bottom end. The fact I have 33 gears rather than 27 is immaterial, it's just a nice, steady range of gears which are always available. The bar-end front shifter is good too.

The shifter for the Alfine is the standard handlebar one on its side. ICE are awaiting J-Tek (who make bar-end shifters) to produce a bar-end for the Alfine so this is the stop-gap option. However, it's so comfortable and natural feeling when riding that I suspect I'll save myself some money by just keeping with this option. Its only disadvantage is that it's fairly easy to get toggles/bits of clothing caught around it when you stand up.





Both those photos seem to obscure the upshifter lever which is behind and to the right of the downshifter one (the large vertical lever you can see). So there are two levers, the 'down' you push away from you with your thumb, the 'up' you pull towards you with your forefinger, and as fitted there both levers are naturally where your hands fall. You can also just see the orange indicator thingie to let you know what gear you're in.

You can just see it in this picture ('scuse the top of my head in the mirror!)



I did find my hands became uncomfortable towards the end of the Dunwich Dynamo - I realised that I used to rest my hand on the collar of the Grip-Shift shifters on the Trice Q and not having that on the Sprint is slightly less comfortable, but this was a 95 miles ride and I don't usually go that far in one go so I imagine I'll get accustomed to it.

Dynamo and Light
I've got many friends who are audaxers and they all seem to have Schmidt SON dynohubs with Busch & Müller lights. I now know why.

My light was so bright that on the Dunwich Dynamo I had several people cycle alongside me (at my tortoise-like pace) presumably so that they could actually see where they were going. The light illuminated the country lanes beautifully - I never felt like I couldn't see where I was going or that I didn't have enough light. I had a backup head torch in case I got a puncture but it wasn't needed and I certainly don't need to supplement the front light for normal running conditions.

The Schmidt hub is a special one for trikes and is a fairly neat and unobtrusive bit of kit. I suppose it must make a very minor difference to the rolling of the trike (i.e. create a fraction more work) but I can't notice anything at all when riding it; my trike does still pull to the right as a result of the spoke lacing not being quite right, but I have already learned to subconsciously compensate for this when steering so I don't notice it at all unless I take both hands off the handlebars (which one does quite often on a trike, to adjust clothing or whatever).

I think the absolute optimum option would be a Schmidt on both sides - one side to power the front (and rear if desired) light, the other one connected up to a Busch & Müller E-Werk which provides a USB charging point for various gadgetry. If you go cycle camping it would be ideal. Come to think of it, do you think ICE would notice if, when they send me the new wheel-with-hub, I send back the old wheel-without-hub so I can end up with two hub dynamos?

Quiet running
My old Trice Q was noisy and rattly, particularly with the mudguards on (so I tended to use it without them). A lot of the noise was from the chain through the chain tubes and this was the same when I fitted new chain tubes after about 18,000 miles. The rear freehub sounds like a machine gun on freewheel and there are general creaks and groans from the seat/rear suspension which are, I imagine, complaints about having travelled 25,000 miles with me as a heavy weight on it.

This Trice Sprint seems almost silent in comparison. Chain noise through the chain tubes is minimal, the freewheel is quieter (although much stiffer with the Alfine), the mudguards are currently rattle-free and the seat doesn't complain so much about me moving around on it. Almost all the noise coming from the trike seems to be tyre roar. It's so peaceful!

Conclusions
Overall, this has been yet another great purchase from Inspired Cycle Engineering. It definitely helped that I had experience of trikes so that I could decide what suits me best - the hub gear, for example. I imagine it's not everyone's cup of tea but it's just great for me.

I attempted to ride the Dunwich Dynamo on it last Saturday (five days after completing building it) but in the end only managed 95 of the 120 miles. This was no reflection on the trike which was brilliant, it was more that I was so sleepy that, at the 40 miles to go point, when I knew that I was only 15 miles from home, I decided to take the easier option. It was a very handy ride, though, as a shakedown ride - nothing shook down, all was fine, I had no mechanical issues and I found the seat exceptionally comfortable.

My previous trike cost £1,900 with about another £200 for extras after I bought it (radical sidepods, chainring guard, etc). This new ICE Sprint has been rather more pricey - £3,646.31 for the trike as delivered in the box, plus £35 for pedals, £57 for the B&M Lumotec IQ Cyo Senso Plus light, £47 for bar-end mount and cycle computer mount, about £20 in total for bottle cage, bottle and mirror, £15 for my naff cycle computer, so Alfie is working his way steadily towards 4k. I have robbed from the other trike the Garmin mount, a mirror, some high-vis reflectivity and lots of other peripherals (decent panniers, various SPD shoes etc) that I would have had to buy new if this were my first trike. So it's not a cheap hobby but boy is it fun! And I imagine if I'd done the 25,000 miles from the last trike in the car instead I would have been much worse off. But what price fun, health and freedom? Alfie is definitely worth it!

Various people wanted to know the prices of the individual pieces of kit, so here they are:

Your Sprint RS in [colour] package consists of:
1 Sprint frame and boom Red 638.81
1 Back end - 20 inch suspension - red 307.88
1 Seat pack (incl mounts) - mesh 163.69
1 Drivetrain - J.Tek left barend, Alfine 11 shifter right 172.92
1 Chainset/front mech - 170 firex + X7 136.16
1 20" rear wheel with Alfine 11, fitting kit & Racer tyre 471.78
1 Sprint 20" Chain tube pack with chain 84.09
1 Brake Pack BB7 tektro lever 119.01
1 Complete V brake parking brake Production 13.44
1 ICE Kingpost per pair - 2010 aluminium - IS calliper 120.77
1 Axles - disc brake 23.70
0.5 RIGHT disc front wheel with tube and marathon racer 77.43
2 Sticker - Sprint RS 2.73
1 Flexibility pack 20" susp (FMG, RMG, CRG, Rack + Sides) 278.59
1 Convenience pack - MESH (FLM, Neck Rest - Mesh - QR 111.59
1 Left Side Schmidt dyno hub wheel with tyre and tube 299.27

These prices are all excluding VAT (add another 20%), and not that the half a wheel is because the front wheels come in a pack of two and I only had one 'standard' wheel.

[cycleman]

going well  . well done on your dun run ride. i wish i could have join you on that but maybe next year  i have only ridden about a mile on my new adventure but it much quieter than my qnt to 

[DrMekon]

As I understand it (or rather, as I was told when I indulged in similar fantasies), you can't run two dynohubs because running it on the left means it's running backwards and the innards unscrew catastrophically. I can't recall who passed that on, but it was discussed on here when I got my cargotrike.

On the other hand, the guy who imports the trike we've got claims he's know them to be run backwards with no ill effects.

Twin cyos would be my setup of choice.

[Quint]

It will be interesting in 6 months to see a comparison/report from both Auntie Helen and Cycleman on their different drive trains and how they are performing/comparing with their more convential previous set ups etc, I know it would be from two totally different people but they both USE their trikes so would be excellent feedback.
    We plan to go up Mont Ventoux for my 65th and every little bit of help as regards gearing will be more than welcome.
                                                                 

[cycleman]

i will keep you updated on how my gears are going on my trike thread . i am very interest in how aunty helen gets on with the alfine hub as i put one on the qnt later down the road. of course ah's reports are much better than mine 

[Auntie Helen]

Pulling to the right...

Well Neil from ICE phoned yesterday wanting to talk a little more about the pulling-to-the-right issue with my trike as he was less convinced it had anything to do with the dynohub.

After various measurings and other experiments, including an attempt by me to film the trike pulling to the right (firstly the camera refused to go into video mode, then the trike refused to pull to the right), Neil went and experimented with various trikes at their factory and discovered that the left hand brake cable might be the culprit. It is routed in front of the track rod on the left hand side so it lies against it and might affect the steering.

So I trotted out into the back garden again and disconnected the lhs brake. Before doing anything else I took the bike for a push along the garden - and it went straight! Marvellous!

I then worked out a nice loose routing position for the cable, reconnected it, did the push test again (still straight) and felt most pleased with this easy fix. I then did the other side (still fine afterwards) and am about to take it out for a proper ride but it appears the quite strong pulling-to-the-right tendency was caused by just one brake cable. Who would have thought! Congrats to ICE again for getting to the bottom of the issue on the end of the telephone.

[Oscar's dad]

^^^  I wish I could afford to buy a machine from ICE, they seem like an incredible bunch of people to deal with.  I was really pleased to see Alfie in the flesh yesterday - a stunning piece of kit.

I hope your pulling to the right problem proves to have been resolved.

[Quint]

They are as is The Oracle at D-tek, nice to know it's sorted out
                                                                     

^^^  I wish I could afford to buy a machine from ICE, they seem like an incredible bunch of people to deal with.  I was really pleased to see Alfie in the flesh yesterday - a stunning piece of kit.

I hope your pulling to the right problem proves to have been resolved.

[jogler]

ICE, they seem like an incredible bunch of people to deal with. 

they most certainly are

[Auntie Helen]

Yep, went out for an 11 mile ride and it's sorted. 

[Auntie Helen]

Took the dog out for a ride today so reassembled the Trice Q as that's the bike which her basket fits.

Immediate impressions were:

seat less comfy (much harder somehow)
Brakes rubbish and cables really stiff (although both are relatively new)
Trike wider so harder to manoeuvre through the gate
Handlebar grip-shift collar rests most comfortable!

Alfie definitely more comfy!

Oh, and Trice Q has been immortalised in a drawing which a friend got for my birthday:



However either the trike is small or the dog is extra-large!

[PaulM]

Pulling to the right...

After various measurings and other experiments, including an attempt by me to film the trike pulling to the right (firstly the camera refused to go into video mode, then the trike refused to pull to the right), Neil went and experimented with various trikes at their factory and discovered that the left hand brake cable might be the culprit. It is routed in front of the track rod on the left hand side so it lies against it and might affect the steering.

I had just arrived at that conclusion myself, but thanks for posting - I now know I won't be wasting my time by rerouting the left brake cable. The pulling to the right when wheeling the trike around has irritated me every day this week.

[swscotland bentrider]

Its all your fault Auntie Helen! A year ago I foolishly parted with my ICE Q26. Missed it ever since. I used it to tour 1100 miles in France in 2010 but decided to use my ICE B2 this year. Being a bit faster I was equal to (and sometimes faster than) my mates who were on DF's. Brilliant though it was - I thought the trike a better touring machine. So having read this thread Kevin is now putting together a Sprint 26 package for me. I can feel pain in the area of my credit card but it'll be worth it

John