Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => Health & Fitness => Topic started by: Frenchie on 28 March, 2008, 01:05:41 pm

Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 28 March, 2008, 01:05:41 pm
I used to run. Now I only jog really, but I do that when I travel and in the winter when light means I cannot enjoy long enough evenings (and I don´treally enjoy the turbo trainer).

Anyway back running again, 30 min. each day. The Argentinean climate is spoiling me really, as dry, warm weather conditions (although clammy at times) mean it is much easier to go out here than it is in rainy Britain! My morning jogs feel quite eay at the moment, showing that cycling has helped me maintain a good endurance base. I attacked a couple of inclines today and it felt great. I just need to be careful with the pounding.

I wonder how Grub´s doing?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: GruB on 28 March, 2008, 09:00:04 pm
Grub has not been out again since.  I will go out again in the morning.  I have ridden all week instead as I had to, and I don't start my holiday until Tuesday - and we fly out on Wednesday, so no running in Australia until Friday morning I reckon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 28 March, 2008, 09:17:43 pm
I did my usual 5 mile run yesterday, felt good until 4 miles when I had problems with my right hip and extreme pain.

It has settled a little bit but this concerns me slightly, I wonder if it was the steep incline that I tackled and perhaps ran a little too fast.  I notice my times are improving so I am not overly concerned if I have to slow down a little.  I normally run with someone else and tend to go slower when I run with them, I think I run too fast on my own.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: GruB on 28 March, 2008, 09:19:03 pm
Do you think it is because you find a rhythm?
What caused the hip to flare up?
A mis-step?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 28 March, 2008, 10:45:49 pm
Yeah! I am ahead of Grub in bike run journal!!

Feeling really good and using my runs to go around the place. Run along the Parana river this morning it was lovely! I am planning to go a bit further this WE. Next week Brazil.  8)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: GruB on 28 March, 2008, 10:47:38 pm
As you can see, I am not amused  ;D
You are being the devil.
You know I am a sucker for a competition.
But, I have a mentor, and he tells me I need to get same base miles in before I start to be silly.
So I am not playing  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 28 March, 2008, 10:58:04 pm
As you can see, I am not amused  ;D
You are being the devil.
You know I am a sucker for a competition.
But, I have a mentor, and he tells me I need to get same base miles in before I start to be silly.
So I am not playing  ;)

Are you suggesting I wait for you?!  ::)

Indeed get the base miles in, then play; it´ll be more fun then. I think my base is no far off, so I may be able to play soon. But so far I am still doing my 30 min. rounds.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: GruB on 29 March, 2008, 12:02:10 am
No don't wait.  I want the thrill of overtaking you.
I may draft for a bit and then sucker you.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: GruB on 29 March, 2008, 12:38:00 pm
Went out this morning.  Felt stronger for some reason.  Can't be base yet as I've only just started.
I decided to change the route to just road as I don't think my knees can cope with the uneven surface of the canal yet.  Perhaps when I am stronger and the tow path is not so wet and slippery I will enjoy it more.

I found a nice route - 2.86 miles.  Did this in 26.34 with an average HR of 142 and training zone compliance of 24.18 to dubious Kcal of 427.

It was a better run than my first.  There were some cheeky little gradient changes to mix it up and a nice long flat straight near the end.  I did some tender Fartlek along this - really easy stuff just to mix it up and to feel out my legs.

I enjoyed it so much it scares me a bit - especially since I forgot to wear my Ipod !!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 30 March, 2008, 04:15:11 pm
Am enjoying my running here as well. Ran in town lately but should be back by the river side later on today. Must eliminate that huge steak eaten last night... On the plus side the river run has a few sweet spots, including a nice hill, and the weather is deliciously warm!  ;D

My knees are fine too. I am probably lighter than I was in December and running short distances so far, well within my CV and physical limits.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: GruB on 30 March, 2008, 05:42:29 pm
Sod it, I'm going to go out again now !!
I've put 50 in my legs this morning so it will be interesting to see what happens now.  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 31 March, 2008, 02:22:47 am
Run 50 min., about 6 Mi, at 14:00 local time. It was HOT!

So I walked to town a minute ago and treated myself to an icecream.  :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: GruB on 31 March, 2008, 05:58:20 am
I did my route from Saturday but a minute down the road and along comes a cop car.  I had to stop and chat and take the abuse for trying to look fit  :D 
When I got started again I tried lengthening my stride.  It worked.  I was 'running' for the first time really.
Later last night I felt that sections of my quads have been awakened again after no use in ages.
It is a very satisfying feeling.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 01 April, 2008, 05:20:12 pm
A difficult but solid 30 min. run this morning including 4 flights of stairs (ca. 45 steps each) and attacking a long hill to make it worth it. I exited the darkness of town to make it to the river banks whih was so bright due to a lovely rising sun reflecting on the river surface. It was hot and humid already and it took me a while to stop sweating; even after the shower!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 03 April, 2008, 04:37:59 am
Much better today. 35 min. of a nicely paced run, part of it on soft grass follwoing last night rain. Nice.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: GruB on 06 April, 2008, 05:12:29 am
First run this morning.  Mrs G came with me.  It was no problem.  Just a little wake up for the legs.  I may go out again tonight if I get the chance. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 08 April, 2008, 06:54:50 pm
I have had a few good runs, including a lovely run on a fairly flat beach outside Bertioga, Litoral Paulista, Brazil. I have done this run before on previous travels, but I am sure I did it faser than I ever did this week. Getting better. If only I could shed the weight faster... <sigh> And keep the running going in the cold when I return this week.

PS Grub, two runs a day! I only ever did this when I was preparing for hard races and part of the best teams in the region I was in! Don't overdo it.  ;) Athletes who do this, usually have one jog, and one session (harder run, reps, fartlek, track).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 14 April, 2008, 02:03:06 pm
Still running Grub?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: GruB on 16 April, 2008, 01:06:42 pm
Yep, had a bit of a gap while we went to Sydney and Mrs G refused to take another case just to put my shoes in.  Went out yesterday myself and this morning with her.  This morning was mainly fast walking as she needs to get a base base before she tries to run.  She has booked a place on the Race for Life again.
I will be out again in the morning.
You?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 16 April, 2008, 04:12:59 pm
Yep, had a bit of a gap while we went to Sydney and Mrs G refused to take another case just to put my shoes in. 

You have big feet, haven't you?!  ::-)

Yep, still running, although not for the past 4 days due to a lot of travel and work. Am talking about doing the local 1/2 marathon with a good friend of mine!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 03 July, 2008, 04:40:30 pm
Back on the treadmill for the first time since *checks spreadsheet...eek* January!

20mins at close to 11.8kph (bit too fast but I my usual treadmill is out of order so I had to use the rickety old one which is difficult to set disired speed accurately).

HRav only 162bpm, which is good for me (it's usually 168-173 for 10.5kph runs!).

Goal is to get to 45 minutes at 10.5kph and then do the occasional run home (about 12km). Garmin Forerunner 405 purchase delayed until I get myself up to 45 minutes twice a week.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gandalf on 03 July, 2008, 04:50:10 pm
Funnily enough I started running again last week to try and accelerate my weight loss.  I haven't done any running at all since 2004, when I managed to complete a couple of 10K, albeit in a pathetic time.

To be honest last Friday's little jog nearly killed me and it was counter productive in that I was walking like John Wayne for three days and couldn't even ride my bike, so my longer weekend ride went down the pan.

I guess I'll have to build it up gradually.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 03 July, 2008, 05:11:48 pm
I had horrendous DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) starting 24 hours after the run and lasting for 3 days after my first run (20 minutes at 10.5kph on a treadmill). Despite doing plenty of stretching before and afterwards.

However I only ever got this after this first run. Subsequent runs have been problem free.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 03 July, 2008, 05:15:32 pm
There is a race on the local campus in August (a 10K) whcih may tempt me... I need to get back to running if I want to take part.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: GruB on 03 July, 2008, 07:33:41 pm
I need to get back into running too, as I have some riot training in July and that is all running  :(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: peliroja on 05 July, 2008, 03:58:21 pm
I've been jogging with my sister in our local park for the past month or so. Only about 3 miles at a time, in about half an hour, but we're doing it most days I'm in the country and it's definitely getting easier. I don't get muscle ache anymore afterwards, and am able to keep going for longer. We do try to run on grass, though, as shins hurt aftern running on tarmac.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: GruB on 05 July, 2008, 04:04:07 pm
Son2 is learning to ride his mini bike now that I have taken the bottom bracket and pedals off.  He is learning the art of balancing.  When he has mastered this he can progress to his proper bike.  While he is mastering it I have to run alongside him.  We started this up the lane on Thursday and repeated it on Friday.  Slowly slowly I will get back to running again.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 05 July, 2008, 06:17:17 pm
First run/bike back-to-back session in a while today... half an hour of each.  Puff puff. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 08 July, 2008, 09:57:11 am
After a good gym session yesterday I ran into the lab today. Felt reasonable, managed to keep it going and push to the top of the observatory hill.

Legs are tired now though...

Maybe take the bike for a spin tonight.

..d
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: vince on 09 July, 2008, 08:19:11 am
I've not run since Sunday Saturday. Should have gone out yesterday morning, but frankly too idle. I'm currently striding around telling all and sundry that I'm doing a 10m race at the end of August so I guess it's time to send off the application and put the miles in before I look completely stupid.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 09 July, 2008, 08:23:52 am
I've promised myself that I'll do two runs and two swims a week to complement two or three rides and a couple of dancing sessions.   Yet to get out on the run  :(

I harbour desires of a tri so I guess I should get out.   Tomorrow morning, maybe ...

I know how to do it, jsut too lazy.   I used to run marathons before a series of injuries to my left leg including one clean break of the fib just above my ankle really put all that to bed.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 11 September, 2008, 01:04:19 pm
Back to running and enjoying it. The top was running on country and mountain paths in the Lakes at the WE. I need a more efficient way of training (time pressures) and running may be it, esp. as I am due to travel quite a bit in the next few months and it is easier to fit trainers in a suitcase than a bike!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: GruB on 11 September, 2008, 08:21:32 pm
I'm working too hard at present.  I still have those lovely shoes I bought that are now not getting any mileage.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 11 September, 2008, 08:37:54 pm
I'm going to Australia with my main sport sponsors and to Brazil; and Argentina; and possibly elsewhere in the next few months. Hence the running.

Any advise on where to go in Melbourne (and Sydney)?  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: GruB on 11 September, 2008, 09:18:35 pm
Melbourne !!!  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:

Visit the Melbourne Cricket Ground if you like cricket.

They have a lovely Botanical Gardens.  The National Art Museum is good.  If you like the idea of a Museum per se, with a heavy Aussie bias, they have opened a great one in Melbourne and I can probably get you in gratis, even from here !!

The city itself is quite a nice place.  St. Kilda beach has a market on The Promenade every Sunday that is worth it too.

Depends where you are staying thought. 

The Yarra River and South Bank in town is good too.  There is loads mate, absolutely loads of grouse places to go.

The only problem will be the Aussies.  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 11 September, 2008, 09:19:48 pm
I've pm'ed you.

PS Cricket ain't my thing. But the rest sounds good. I don't know where I'm staying; 'tis taken car of by higher powers!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Julian on 02 November, 2008, 11:13:03 pm
Resurrecting this thread as the owner of a pair of running shoes, for the first time in my life.  Also have managed to jog (slowly) more than 1km for the first time ever.  Charlotte has been showing me how to run without looking like I've been plugged into the mains, and it appears to be marginally easier than last time I tried (about 12 years ago).

Any tips for the total novice gratefully appreciated - especially Vicky, how did you sort the shin-pain thing?  Is that just something that happens or is it something I'm doing wrong?  It seemed worse when I was doing fast walking than slow jogging. 

I am at the running stage equivalent of when cycling 3 miles to the shops was a massive undertaking.  This means I can only get better at it.  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: woollypigs on 02 November, 2008, 11:21:08 pm
Peli just told me that she is only running on grass or else she gets sore shins.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 03 November, 2008, 08:31:55 am
Soft surfaces are easier on shins - tarmac is the hardest.  Grass and gravel are much better. 

But mostly it's a case of developing certain muscles you don't have yet.  Take it easy - don't macho through it or you risk nasties like compartment syndrome and stress fractures, all of which are as exciting as they sound.  Rest up ouchy shins until they're good before running again, and after a month or two you'll find that they're buffer ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 03 November, 2008, 08:39:15 am
The first thing is to get a proper pair of running shoes fitted at a shop; Asics, New Balance, Nike are the most common probably. Then, start with grass and trails indeed, esp. if you are not in your race trim; they will help minimise the impact. Thirdly take it easy and rememember never to increase your distance or pace significantly as you get started (the rule of thumb is no more than 10% week in, week out; start by running 2-3 times a week maybe). Stretch! Finally run in nice surroundings as they really help make running more interesting at the beginning; once fitter you can start to play, run with others and do a bit of fartlek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fartlek) for example!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Malandro on 03 November, 2008, 09:58:16 am
Until recently, running was my main way of staying fit.  Although I've run intermitently most of my adult life, it didn't become a habit until I started on a treadmill at the gym 6 - 7 years ago.  I then gave up the gym membership and the streets of Ealing (and then Edinburgh) were mine!  Managed to run a marathon 3 years ago....and then the injuries started and currently I'm lucky if I can do 4 miles pain free. 

In hindsight, I'd stress to anyone starting running that stretching and perhaps a good gym routine are crucial for staying injury free, especially if, like me, you don't have a body anything like Haile Gebreselassie.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: border-rider on 03 November, 2008, 11:33:29 am
Yep - it's dead easy to injure yourself quite spectacularly running. even when you've got the miles in. 

When you first start running, your (cycling-trained) cardiovascular system is raring to go, but  your legs aren't ready.  So lots of short runs at a steady pace (able to comfortably sustain a conversation is the usual advice) with rest days between.  Don't run with sore legs - on the rest days go for a bike ride.

And stretches before and after, warm up/down
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Chris S on 03 November, 2008, 11:56:30 am
The ortho consultant at the hospital who checked out my knee when I borked it, had this to say:

Him: Cycling is good - are you considering taking up running at all?
Me: No.
Him: Good - don't.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 03 November, 2008, 12:27:23 pm
Well done Liz for making a start on running.  I agree with the advice given by others but would like to add a couple of things.  Jogging/walking is ok to start with, don't think you have to run all the way. 

Jogging and running are quite harsh on the shins and knees when on tarmac or other hard surfaces.  If the heel strikes the ground first there is greater force through the knee joint.  I used to stride out when running but now tend to take smaller steps and try not to strike heel first all the time.

As you know I did my longest run to date on Saturday and have found myself entering my first road race.

I love to run cross country.  Mud, puddles, obstacles make it so much more fun but also more hazardous.

Make sure you enjoy yourself and before you do anything else make sure those trainers are aiding your running and causing you any harm.

 :-* :-*
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Julian on 03 November, 2008, 12:34:11 pm
The trainers are Brooks ones from Wiggle, I walked over a wet floor to find out what my footprint looks like and went with the ones they recommended.  They certainly feel like they're supporting my foot well.  A distinct improvement on running in Woolworths' plimsolls*.  ::-)

I don't think I'm likely to have any problems overexerting myself.  ;) 

I'm trying to take smaller steps and roll, rather than bounce.  I think one of the reasons that I was so crap at running was that I was doing a slow bounce, which takes considerable effort!

I just don't understand the shin thing - it was fine when jogging but long-strides-fast-walking was painful, like I was jarring my shin bones, and I couldn't work out what it was.  If it's just a n00b problem then I will stick to the park until I've built up a bit more.  :)




*Everyone else had Nike GreenFlash, which were (I agree in retrospect) a total waste of money for a girl with growing feet who attended games lessons... infrequently.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 03 November, 2008, 12:47:58 pm
The trainers are Brooks ones from Wiggle, I walked over a wet floor to find out what my footprint looks like and went with the ones they recommended.  They certainly feel like they're supporting my foot well.  A distinct improvement on running in Woolworths' plimsolls*.  ::-)

I don't think I'm likely to have any problems overexerting myself.  ;) 

I'm trying to take smaller steps and roll, rather than bounce.  I think one of the reasons that I was so crap at running was that I was doing a slow bounce, which takes considerable effort!

I just don't understand the shin thing - it was fine when jogging but long-strides-fast-walking was painful, like I was jarring my shin bones, and I couldn't work out what it was.  If it's just a n00b problem then I will stick to the park until I've built up a bit more.  :)




*Everyone else had Nike GreenFlash, which were (I agree in retrospect) a total waste of money for a girl with growing feet who attended games lessons... infrequently.

The long-strides-fast-walking is more likely to be heels first with greater pressure forced up through the shin bones. 

I think you are a star for being so motivated and lucky to have a gorgeous coach by your side.  Out of interest - is this coach carrying a bucket and sponge?

Don't forget those all important stretches before and after, if you don't have enough time to stretch then cut back on your run, they are just as important if not more so than the run itself.

The coach is expected to give post run massages to all affected areas with warm oil :-*
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Julian on 03 November, 2008, 12:49:33 pm
The long-strides-fast-walking is more likely to be heels first with greater pressure forced up through the shin bones. 

I think you are a star for being so motivated and lucky to have a gorgeous coach by your side.  Out of interest - is this coach carrying a bucket and sponge?

Don't forget those all important stretches before and after, if you don't have enough time to stretch then cut back on your run, they are just as important if not more so than the run itself.

The coach is expected to give post run massages to all affected areas with warm oil :-*

Lots and lots of stretching.  I can feel that I've been running at the weekend but I'm not hurting, so the stretching must have worked.

I think the gorgeous coach is definitely a motivating feature.  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: agagisgroovy on 03 November, 2008, 01:48:04 pm
I'm starting running as part of my DofE so I can (hopefully) do a triathlon in the Spring.  :)
I can run about half a mile without having to stop already. I think my problem is that my legs are really uncoordinated while I'm running, and I'm trying to work out how you run properly.  ???
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Malandro on 04 November, 2008, 12:32:57 pm
Ran 4 miles or so this morning before cycling to work.  Still dark and nice and cold!  Pity my back has now started to seize up while sitting at my desk.  Must persevere.  Stretching, core stability, more stretching.....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 17 November, 2008, 08:59:00 am
Time to start dusting my trainers... I'm off to South America soon again for a while and won't have the luxury of a bike. With the warm weather it should be easy to get out though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 07 January, 2009, 02:35:49 pm
Back on the treadmill for me after months of not running.

Starting back on 2 x 20 minute runs a week at a gentle 10.5kph and slowly building up time/distance.

By my reckoning I should be up to 3 x 1hr runs a week by Mid May at which point I'll start running the 11km into work every so often. Something like:-

M: cycle in, run home
T: cycle in, cycle home
W: cycle in, 1 hr treadmill run at work, cycle home
T: cycle in, cycle home
F: run in, cycle home

(I know I'll need two bikes to do this, I'll take the geared bike in on Monday and bring it back on Friday).

25 minutes to treadmill o'clock. Ugh.

[EDIT] Meant to do 20 minutes at 10.5kph but I only managed just over 14 minutes. My excuse is that my HRM showed my average HR for those 14 minutes to be 181bpm which, for a gentle 10.5kph, is a good reason to stop and rest for a few days. We'll see what happens on Friday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 07 January, 2009, 06:23:29 pm
I think you were right to stop when you did Greenbank.

I have had 10 days off from running, today was a gentle 5k as I knew I would be riding later in the day.

I am finding it hard to balance my cycling and running.  I run 3-4 times a week, usually 6-8 miles during the week and a longer run of say 11 miles on a weekend.  Today was back on the treadmill as the conditions on the roads and paths was treacherous, I found it so boring but it was a means to an end.

Good luck
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Manotea on 07 January, 2009, 06:41:45 pm
*Everyone else had Nike GreenFlash, which were (I agree in retrospect) a total waste of money for a girl with growing feet who attended games lessons... infrequently.

I'm not usually one to be pedantic (......) but in this case I'll make an exception.

The plimsoles from before time began to which you refer are

DUNLOP GREEN FLASH

<Al Murray>
Good Honest British Plimsoles from an age when PE meant an hour of calesthenics in the gym.
</Al Murray>
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 07 January, 2009, 07:51:17 pm
I think you were right to stop when you did Greenbank.

I stopped because my HR had read 197bpm for over a minute :)

(This is fine, I'm naturally a fast-beater and my GP is unconcerned about this. I can happily average 165bpm for an entire 11 hour 200km Audax and I'll feel as fresh as a daisy at the finish. I often see 200bpm+ when playing 5-a-side football. But, see below.)

This temporary spike is probably due the end of a recent lurgy or the salt on the roads. The latter always makes me a bit wheezy when I'm out on the bike (my asthma cleared up when I was 16 so I can't blame it on that).

Remembering something I heard of Radio 5 before I went away I've just booked a ECG scan with the Cardiac Risk in the Young charity (CRY). Details here: Upcoming CRY Cardiac Screening (http://www.c-r-y.org.uk/ecg.htm) (Only 18-35 year olds though!)

It's a kind of mobile service so I'm having to wait until 21st Feb until it's next in London. £35 but hopefully worth it for a thorough scan and checkup.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 07 January, 2009, 08:01:20 pm
Unless I am missing something, it seems that they are just doing a 12 lead resting ECG. You could get this done at your GP surgery free in a matter of minutes. You GP is likely, as you have noted previously, to be extremely sceptical as to the justification and indeed the value of this (as am I), but it is cheap, quick, and he might be persuaded...

Oh. I have missed something - they do an echo as well, if indicated. I remain sceptical, given what I know of your abilities, but I'm ready, as ever, to be proven wrong.



Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 07 January, 2009, 08:56:10 pm
Not wishing to do my GP any injustice (I've had nothing but good experiences with the practice) but I think CRY's unwritten point is that anyone can administer an ECG test but not everyone has the experience to understand and interpret the results fully.

I'm willing to be proven wrong though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 07 January, 2009, 09:52:10 pm
Most of the conduction abnormalities associated with sudden cardiac death are readily identifiable.

I am sure your GP would be more than capable of identifying a problem, or at the very least recognising a variation from the norm and initiating further action or expert interpretation as appropriate.

I'm not suggesting that you don't have appropriate investigations done if you are concerned of course, for instance if that wheeze persists or you feel that your heart rate response to exercise is outside normal range for you. I am merely suggesting that your local GP would do just as good a job.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 07 January, 2009, 10:07:10 pm
Fair enough SP. I know that you know your stuff about this so I do value your opinion.

'Tis booked anyway. I'll report back on what I think about it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 07 January, 2009, 11:32:31 pm
Fingers crossed it'll give you a reassuring result that will rule out any electrical conduction abnormalities (unlikely unless you have had symptomatic rhythm disturbances, relevant family history etc) and gross cardiomyopathies (again unlikely given your level of fitness, I'd like to think) and thus not a bad use of £35.


In regard to ECGs and cardiomyopathies: while an ECG is a sensitive test, there is a fairly high risk of false positives as some of the ECG changes you see can be similar to those caused due to changes resulting from fitness training, so it's useful to have access to echo to clarify matters somewhat.

It'll be interesting for you to see if there is any structural or functional reason for the high heart rates. If I was in your position I'd be mildly interested, but relatively unconcerned in view of the lack of any worrying symptoms such as shortness of breath out of proportion to effort, fainting / near-faints etc.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 14 January, 2009, 09:13:48 am
Due to various travels I've gone back into my running (every other day) and have been enjoying it. Being good so far I am maintaining some run sessions here as well. Last night was interesting though: I misjudged the light and lighting there would be on a section of my runs and ended us running in pitch dark; thank goodness the trail was light grey and I could just about follow it -- I need a Petzl! I am trying to re-build a solid endurance base first and have started to introduce a few reps when I was overseas to build up speed as well. So far so good. No idea of exact speed but around 12.5 km/h most probably on 40+ min jogs. I could do with loosing a few pounds though!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 14 January, 2009, 10:22:00 am
Back playing 5-a-side.

HR topped out at 200bpm according to the Garmin, must have been taking it easy in that game (my usual HRmax is 205bpm) as we were outplaying them (we won 6-1).

The running is definitely helping with it.

:)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 14 January, 2009, 03:32:43 pm
Managed a whole 8 minutes on the treadmill before I felt like crap again. Oh well. Better than nothing I guess.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 14 January, 2009, 04:23:35 pm
Managed a whole 8 minutes on the treadmill before I felt like crap again. Oh well. Better than nothing I guess.

What do you mean when you say 'crap', tired, heavy, out of breath, what exactly?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 14 January, 2009, 04:34:41 pm
Tired and heavy. I did play 5-a-side last night. HR was only 172. Not worried at all, I just want to get back into the routine of it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 14 January, 2009, 04:52:39 pm
Tired and heavy. I did play 5-a-side last night. HR was only 172. Not worried at all, I just want to get back into the routine of it.

Perhaps take it a bit easier the morning after playing 5-a-side, give yourself chance to recover until you have built back up to a better level of fitness in terms of your running.  I always rest on a Wednesday morning as I run and do 2 hours of yoga on a Tuesday. 

I am sure it won't take you long to get the fitness back. 

I took two weeks off from running over Christmas to give my body a chance to recover after the chesty cough thingy, when I went out for my 7 mile run yesterday I felt really good although my legs were a tiny bit heavy about mile 6.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 15 January, 2009, 10:05:03 pm
An easy 6-Miler tonight (44 min. of running). I feel easy cardio-vascularly, but my form is very poor and I have to think about it; when I do it helps my pace. Probably the weight (?) and lack of practice -- I feel as if I am slouching forward (?). But a nice run nonetheless
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 16 January, 2009, 05:33:41 pm
Hurrah. 20 minutes at 10.5kph on the treadmill and I felt much better once I'd got into it. Still unable to zone out but getting there.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 06 February, 2009, 08:50:28 pm
Still running regularly, often at night with my Petzl when I feel I want to run "in nature". Great fun when cold and dry; even better in the snow!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 06 February, 2009, 09:08:42 pm
I haven't done any running (including 5-a-side football) since my knee said no.

Still waiting for knee to be back to 100%.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 06 February, 2009, 09:26:04 pm
I went running last night.  Headtorch and Exposure light.  Still ended up with a car pulling out of a drive and me running into the side of it, I couldn't have been more lit up if I tried.  Just love to run in the dark, cold and wet.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 07 February, 2009, 04:58:49 pm
I went running last night.  Headtorch and Exposure light.  Still ended up with a car pulling out of a drive and me running into the side of it, I couldn't have been more lit up if I tried.  Just love to run in the dark, cold and wet.

Great isn't it!? I don't like wet, but crispy cold and dark is heaven.

About car pulling out in front of you: It often happens to me in town. People are clearly only looking to their right as they pull out and would happily run over everyone on the pavement.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 08 February, 2009, 08:49:15 pm
I went running last night.  Headtorch and Exposure light.  Still ended up with a car pulling out of a drive and me running into the side of it, I couldn't have been more lit up if I tried.  Just love to run in the dark, cold and wet.

Great isn't it!? I don't like wet, but crispy cold and dark is heaven.

About car pulling out in front of you: It often happens to me in town. People are clearly only looking to their right as they pull out and would happily run over everyone on the pavement.

Hmm don't know what to do about it really.  Stopping at speed is hard on the joints.

She is lucky my Exposure light didn't end up through her window.

I will be out tomorrow night, come rain or shine. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 20 February, 2009, 06:01:32 pm
Remembering something I heard of Radio 5 before I went away I've just booked a ECG scan with the Cardiac Risk in the Young charity (CRY). Details here: Upcoming CRY Cardiac Screening (http://www.c-r-y.org.uk/ecg.htm) (Only 18-35 year olds though!)

It's a kind of mobile service so I'm having to wait until 21st Feb until it's next in London. £35 but hopefully worth it for a thorough scan and checkup.

Tomorrow!

Will post a followup when I'm done but I'm going straight from test appointment to a big booze fest in Blackpool for the weekend so I doubt I'll be posting anything until Monday.

Interestingly it was also plugged in Cycling Weakly this week.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 22 February, 2009, 08:32:02 pm
Tomorrow!

Will post a followup when I'm done but I'm going straight from test appointment to a big booze fest in Blackpool for the weekend so I doubt I'll be posting anything until Monday.

All clear. :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 23 February, 2009, 10:38:04 pm
Ran in this morning (3.5 miles). Took about 40 mins. This did include a couple of ascents of Balgay Hill to add the paths to OSM. I had to walk up most of the steps the second time - the rucksack had my laptop and 2 days kit in for travelling.

Felt really good.

Got off the plane in Heathrow terminal 1, gate 80 or therabouts. Checked my watch as I stepped off the plane - bus leaves in 6 mins. Made it to the bus station in 5 only to stand around for 10 mins before the driver bothered to turn up.. But for the first time in a long while felt that I could run at a sustainable pace.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 24 February, 2009, 11:32:00 am
Great news Greenbank and David, well done. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Julian on 16 March, 2009, 11:14:42 pm
*thread resuscitation*

I've noticed that I seem to be able to run better the day after a long / hard bike ride.  As a general rule, it's usually the cardiovascular system that wimps out on me first (I run out of puff and my heartrate goes mental).

The day after a long ride, my cardiovascular system seems a lot more calm.  Okay, my legs are screaming for mercy, but I can cope with that.  This evening I managed to actually *hold a conversation* while jogging, which I've never managed before. 

Is there a reason for this or is it totally psychosomatic? 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: geraldc on 16 March, 2009, 11:20:36 pm
Is it that that you just go into aerobic mode a lot earlier ?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 16 March, 2009, 11:25:29 pm
I can't think of a reason; but it good that you can jog and chat. That is how it should be.

One a bike my legs will give first (I TT on fixed), whilst running hard, racing or training, it'll be my CV that will fail, every time but a day after a TT race after which my legs can feel rather numb. I am feeling rather poorly after such a hard ride (for me), but I can't compare it to how I have felt in the past running hard (burning lungs, feeling sick).

My problem right now is more one of weight when I run though. I can run okay with my cycling base, but if I could loose the extra flab it'd feel much better and I could probably run better.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: GruB on 17 March, 2009, 06:09:38 am
Each time I see this post I feel the shame and guilt of failure.  I have a really nice pair of trainers in my wardrobe but just don't have the time to get out there.
Perhaps with the nicer weather I can go out in the evening, plus the lighter nights may help.  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 17 March, 2009, 07:02:58 am
*thread resuscitation*

The day after a long ride, my cardiovascular system seems a lot more calm.  Okay, my legs are screaming for mercy, but I can cope with that.  This evening I managed to actually *hold a conversation* while running, which I've never managed before. 

Is there a reason for this or is it totally psychosomatic? 

I have no idea why it happens, but I get that too - for a few days after a big ride, I'm incapable of getting my HR up to normal when I'm back on the bike.  My guess would be the body is refusing to work as hard cos it's knackered and in recovery mode. Either that, or it's instant training benefits that wear off after a couple of days (which would be depressingly quick!)   

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: tonyh on 17 March, 2009, 07:57:26 am
for a few days after a big ride, I'm incapable of getting my HR up to normal when I'm back on the bike. 

This applies to me in the later stages of a ride, even a 200 to some extent.

But when resting afterwards (eg during a typically poor night's rather restless sleep), HR remains high (eg 65 rather than 55). As you say Mike, knackered and attempting recovery?

(Suspect my mistake is to be 65 (+2) rather than 55.)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 17 March, 2009, 08:35:39 am
Each time I see this post I feel the shame and guilt of failure.  I have a really nice pair of trainers in my wardrobe but just don't have the time to get out there.
Perhaps with the nicer weather I can go out in the evening, plus the lighter nights may help.  ::-)

Grub, I often run with a Petzl in winter when it is dark... It is great!  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 17 March, 2009, 09:07:07 am
Long summer evenings and crisp summer mornings are better.   :thumbsup:

(I wonder if this is why Kenya produces more world-class runners than Newfoundland?)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Chris S on 17 March, 2009, 09:24:29 am
I called up the consultant who saw me last year regarding my knee.

Me: You know you said I shouldn't take up running?
Him: Yes, cycling is great - running is tough on knees and you have a weak one.
Me: I want to try running - but not tarmac. Our local farmer keeps a grass margin round his fields with permissive access. It's quite soft really.
Him: Hmm... not road running?
Me: Nope
Him: Weell... give it a try, but any pain - stop IMMEDIATELY. And get some proper shoes.
Me: Cool  :thumbsup:

So, I went out this morning. Now - I have never ever been able to run. At school I would bunk off running so I could smoke with my mates in the park  ::-). OK - so I didn't help things - I'm not proud of the yoof I was...

Anyhoo - I can't run because as soon as I make the transition from walking (say 4mph) to jogging (say 5mph), it becomes unsustainable - my heart rate climbs gradually and my breathing gets heavier and heavier until I have to slow to a walk again. It's not like this when I cycle, I can do that all day all night and all the next day.

Do I just need to practice?

FWIW I hardly ever walk or run. I work at home, and if I'm going somewhere I cycle or drive. That's probably the answer there...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 17 March, 2009, 09:59:44 am
practice.  I started with 1 minute run / 1 minute walk and worked up from there. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 17 March, 2009, 10:02:44 am
I called up the consultant who saw me last year regarding my knee.

Me: You know you said I shouldn't take up running?
Him: Yes, cycling is great - running is tough on knees and you have a weak one.
Me: I want to try running - but not tarmac. Our local farmer keeps a grass margin round his fields with permissive access. It's quite soft really.
Him: Hmm... not road running?
Me: Nope
Him: Weell... give it a try, but any pain - stop IMMEDIATELY. And get some proper shoes.
Me: Cool  :thumbsup:

So, I went out this morning. Now - I have never ever been able to run. At school I would bunk off running so I could smoke with my mates in the park  ::-). OK - so I didn't help things - I'm not proud of the yoof I was...

Anyhoo - I can't run because as soon as I make the transition from walking (say 4mph) to jogging (say 5mph), it becomes unsustainable - my heart rate climbs gradually and my breathing gets heavier and heavier until I have to slow to a walk again. It's not like this when I cycle, I can do that all day all night and all the next day.

Do I just need to practice?

FWIW I hardly ever walk or run. I work at home, and if I'm going somewhere I cycle or drive. That's probably the answer there...

Hmmmm ::-)

Sometimes even running off road can cause problems, especially with uneven cambers.

I can run and then run some more, no problems with lungs etc until I sprint for the finish line and then almost vomit.

I am doing lots of thinking about my future and cycling and I think that running may feature more than it used to do.  I hope to carry on cycling but am realistic that I may never be able to overcome certain issues.

I agree with Andy.  Early morning and evening runs are the best time.  I use a headtorch and my Exposure joystick, it is invigorating and I really do feel I have pushed myself.

Chris, I really think you need to be a little bit kinder to yourself.  Lots of run/walk.  Even just running for 30 seconds and walking for a minute or until you are able to hold a conversation, probably with yourself until you get the help of a running partner.   Little and often is most certainly the answer. 

If I do a session on the treadmill (which isn't very often anymore) I tend to walk at around 6.6kph and then jog at around 10.5 - 11kph, any faster I consider to be a run.  When I started out though I was probably running at around 9kph.

Listen to your body, don't do anything silly and with time you will reap the rewards.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Julian on 17 March, 2009, 10:37:17 am
Anyhoo - I can't run because as soon as I make the transition from walking (say 4mph) to jogging (say 5mph), it becomes unsustainable - my heart rate climbs gradually and my breathing gets heavier and heavier until I have to slow to a walk again. It's not like this when I cycle, I can do that all day all night and all the next day.

Do I just need to practice?

Same here.  I got a HRM for Christmas and by the time I've managed a mile at a trundling 5mph, I'm up at 85-90% HR and breathing, as they say, like a peedo in a playground.  It is frustrating that I can cycle for 40 hours straight(ish) but when it comes to running, I'd struggle to keep up with the egg-and-spoon race.

It does just seem to be practice and more practice and breathing reaaaaalllly slowly through my nose.  It's not like riding a bike where if you're off the bike for a month you can hop back on and only struggle slightly, either - between October and Christmas I managed to work up to 5km, then I was poorly-sick over Christmas and didn't go out for ages, and I was right back at square one.  Well, maybe square one-and-a-half.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 17 March, 2009, 04:08:11 pm
With running, stop one week and you're going backward, unlike cycling indeed. if you only do it very occasionally are are big-boned chances are you will hurt yourself, esp. if you try hard, which begs the question: Why do it? If you really want to, you must take it easy, and "shuffle" at the beginning at least.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Chris S on 17 March, 2009, 04:19:06 pm
With running, stop one week and you're going backward, unlike cycling indeed. if you only do it very occasionally are are big-boned chances are you will hurt yourself, esp. if you try hard, which begs the question: Why do it? If you really want to, you must take it easy, and "shuffle" at the beginning at least.

Good points. I'm looking for a convenient cross-training activity that I enjoy, so I'm trying several things including rowing, running and swimming. Running is the one I'm finding the hardest because, as you say, I'm a larger frame so less suited to it.

Time will tell which works best. Problem with swimming is, the nearest pool is 20 miles away and I don't always have time, whereas I can nip out for a quick 20 minute run easily enough.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 17 March, 2009, 04:22:18 pm
Rowing is probably safer for your knees.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 17 March, 2009, 05:08:26 pm
Chris,

I hope you didn't mind what I wrote. I have met you so I can anticipate some of the issues. I am not a small runner either (now), but I have been running for years, still do it regularly amd have kept a good jogging base. One key thing if you want to run is to try and run on soft surfaces and get some *good* shoes (New Balance should cater well for you). If you only do it once in a while you may think that it is expensive, but only this and some training discipline will avoid any injury. I love running. I like running in nice weather (on a beach in Brazil! ;o) but I also enjoy running on dry and cold days (running on a clear sky, cold evening is great). One thing that makes a difference to me is also where I run. Nice locations matter, be they parks, beaches or even towns. At night I also enjoy running with music on.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Chris S on 17 March, 2009, 05:27:30 pm
Of course I don't mind - I hold your opinion in high regard because you know a lot more about running than me.

I'm mindful of the fact that I don't have any history of running, so the potential for injury is high. Luckily, it's currently self-limiting as I can only run for about two or three minutes before having to revert to walking so I can swallow a lung.

As I say, it's currently one of three options I'm looking at. Rowing is a real contender because Mrs S is also interested in giving it a go which makes the expense of a rowing machine more justifiable.

However - it sounds like what you are saying is this: Am I sure I can commit to running, because without commitment, it's hard to progress and the risk of injury remains high, is that right? The answer is I don't know. Having never run much before, I can't tell. However, my knee may well be the deciding factor because I don't want to do anything that compromises that.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 17 March, 2009, 05:43:29 pm
Chris, might I suggest that you walk before you hit the 3-4 minute mark.  Warm up first with a brisk walk, stretch, then begin.

If you know you are really going to suffer at the 3 - 4 minute mark then why not run for 2 minutes, walk, recover and then run for another 2 minutes.

This is just a suggestion of course and you can ignore it but I wouldn't get to the stage when you feel you are going to cough up a lung, not unless you are sprinting for the finish line.

If you can dedicate 20 minutes then try this:

5 minute warm up and stretch
Run 2 minutes, walk 1 minute x 3 times
Cool down for 5 minutes and stretch

You will find that each time you go out it will get easier and you can increase the time you are jogging/running.

Another tip is to avoid doing the same route every time, especially if it is on a camber, alternate the route if at all possible.

With time it will become easier, you will reap the rewards and you will want to do more. 

Do not be tempted to rush this nor go too far or too fast too soon.

Good luck and see you on a half marathon very soon :demon:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Chris S on 17 March, 2009, 05:50:25 pm
Thanks Annie - this is good stuff  :thumbsup:.

It's a strange thing how specific "fitness" is. When I mention how much I cycle, people say "Gosh, you must be fit!" but the ugly truth is, I'm only fit for cycling. When it comes to something else (running in my case) I'm a bumbling, gasping mess.

And that, I guess, is the essence of Cross Training.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 17 March, 2009, 05:54:32 pm
When I want to do the Science Park Fun Run (1.1 miles) my first training run is around 8 minutes but the race time is around 7 minutes.  That's from 2 weeks training.  After the first run my legs are sore for a few days but after the race, they're fine.  It's just adaptation.  I probably adapt a bit faster because I have a history of playing 5-a-side football.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 17 March, 2009, 05:57:02 pm
Thanks Annie - this is good stuff  :thumbsup:.

It's a strange thing how specific "fitness" is. When I mention how much I cycle, people say "Gosh, you must be fit!" but the ugly truth is, I'm only fit for cycling. When it comes to something else (running in my case) I'm a bumbling, gasping mess.

And that, I guess, is the essence of Cross Training.

The thing is, you have made a start and are motivated, you are half way there already :)

I have a whole host of books and running magazines if you want me to send you some, just say the word.

I do a lot of running off-road and use different shoes for this, trail shoes.  They are lighter and react quite differently to road shoes, given that the ankles are required to work slightly differently.

I know I will never be brilliant at cycling but I am at least ok at running.  I am now about to sit down and work out a structured training plan so that I do it right.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 17 March, 2009, 06:09:51 pm
Annie you are a very light runner. Chris probably needs well cushioned or stability shoes, hence my suggestion for some NB (or Saucony if they still do say the Jazz). Good, purposeful shoes will help with injury limitation.

With Annie's routine, Chris, what you can also try and do as you get fitter is to reduce some of the walking times. Getting a goal when one starts is also good.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 17 March, 2009, 06:14:12 pm
Annie you are a very light runner. Chris probably needs well cushioned or stability shoes, hence my suggestion for some NB (or Saucony if they still do say the Jazz). Good, purposeful shoes will help with injury limitation.

With Annie's routine, Chris, what you can also try and do as you get fitter is to reduce some of the walking times. Getting a goal when one starts is also good.

Yes, good point Frenchie.

Also about reducing the walking times, I reckon within a few weeks that Chris would be able to do this quite easily if he keeps at it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 18 March, 2009, 09:37:46 pm
Night running apparatus, Feb. 2009
(http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p278/ZeFrenchie/Cycling/Gab_Feb09_007.jpg)
Perfect for running in the woods, along the river path... on a crisp winter evening.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 18 March, 2009, 09:56:57 pm
5 miles this morning.  Fresh and bright.  I think I went a little too fast though as I was on my own and not always very good at pacing myself. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 18 March, 2009, 10:44:07 pm
<please excuse if this sounds abrubt and rude, I'm trying to be helpful  :-[>

There's a couple of potential dangers for Chris I think ;-

You just get better at plodding, so you can run at 5mph for 30 mins, but don't get above that, and you are not utilising all your running muscles (hammies, glutes, calves, quads) and just relying on eg your hammies to pull you along so you get overdeveloped in that area.

So a suggestion - try varying it a bit more, walk a bit, do some jumping jacks, run a bit, hop on each leg, couple of squat jumps, bit of skipping, bit more walking, bit more jogging.

Then when the running bits get longer do some bounding up hills - just extending steps up a gentle hill to get the glutes firing.

Down side is that you'll feel a bit of a prat  ;D, but I think your running will pick up quickly.



Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 18 March, 2009, 10:54:03 pm
<please excuse if this sounds abrubt and rude, I'm trying to be helpful  :-[>

There's a couple of potential dangers for Chris I think ;-

You just get better at plodding, so you can run at 5mph for 30 mins, but don't get above that, and you are not utilising all your running muscles (hammies, glutes, calves, quads) and just relying on eg your hammies to pull you along so you get overdeveloped in that area.

So a suggestion - try varying it a bit more, walk a bit, do some jumping jacks, run a bit, hop on each leg, couple of squat jumps, bit of skipping, bit more walking, bit more jogging.

Then when the running bits get longer do some bounding up hills - just extending steps up a gentle hill to get the glutes firing.

Down side is that you'll feel a bit of a prat  ;D, but I think your running will pick up quickly.





Apologies but I think this is likely to cause Chris huge problems.

Chris needs to build up a good base before he attempts intervals, sprints etc.  Hopping on one leg only works if your knees are 100% and are probably better off being done in the gym or at least on even and soft ground.

Running up hill with a long stride is also something that should be left for quite some time.  The most effective way to get up a hill whilst reducing the risk of injury is to use very short strides.

I can see where you are coming from but Chris just needs to learn to run first.  There is plenty of time to add in intervals/sprints/fartleks if he so wishes.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 18 March, 2009, 11:03:54 pm
when you say "Chris needs to learn to run first", that's my point - he's not learning to run, he's learning to plod, what you call building a base will likely give him some bad habits that he will find difficult to break later.

And I'm not suggesting intervals, I'm suggesting a couple of hops, a couple of jumps, three or four bounds, to get all his muscle groups firing (and to have a bit more fun  ;D)


Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 18 March, 2009, 11:21:55 pm
Chris probably should make sure his glutes are strong too - this is one of the things I've been told to work on by my physio.

Quote
Weak glutes also cause the hamstring and quadriceps muscles to overcompensate, which can lead to strains, says Jim Thornton, MS, ATC, PES, head athletic trainer at Clarion University in Clarion, Pa. And without a strong, working medius to align the femur, knee and ankle, you’re also more likely to overpronate your feet, which can cause plantar fasciitis (heel pain), Achilles’ tendinitis and shin splints. Inhibited gluteal muscles also lead to tight iliotibial bands, also known as ITB syndrome, and patello-femoral pain, or runner’s knee.

I haz the highlighted problems.  I'm working on the glutes every day as part of my knee rehab.  Glutes seem to be quite important.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 18 March, 2009, 11:22:29 pm
Long summer evenings and crisp summer mornings are better.   :thumbsup:

(I wonder if this is why Kenya produces more world-class runners than Newfoundland?)

It could be that.
Or maybe that Kenya is at high altitude, so that Kenyans can have permanent altitude training.

Where do you runners keep your front door keys when you run? Do running vests or shorts have a pocket for them?
Or do you always have someone waiting for you at home, to let you back in again?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: annie on 19 March, 2009, 06:31:37 am
It would be nice to train the dogs to pass me the keys through the letter box, as this is never going to happen I have to settle for hiding them in a secret Pixie Place.

I do have a pocket in the back of my tri-suit but don't like the feeling of a key against my back or bottom.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 19 March, 2009, 08:52:05 am
Long summer evenings and crisp summer mornings are better.   :thumbsup:

(I wonder if this is why Kenya produces more world-class runners than Newfoundland?)

It could be that.
Or maybe that Kenya is at high altitude, so that Kenyans can have permanent altitude training.

Indeed. Some of the best runners (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paavo_Nurmi) in history have been Finnish BTW.

PS I keep my keys at the back of my jacket in winter or in my shorts pocket in the summer.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blah on 19 March, 2009, 09:43:17 am
Where do you runners keep your front door keys when you run? Do running vests or shorts have a pocket for them?

Running specific shorts usually have a little pocket that sits just under the elastic band at the front (usually at 2o'clock if that makes sense), with space for one key.

I either do that, or just carry them in my hand when I'm running.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 19 March, 2009, 09:57:47 am
If you want some fun then go down to one of the car parks at Richmond Park (or anywhere else people drive down to to go running) and watch the runners about to set off (or come back) from their run. Lots of them leave their car keys on top of one of the front wheels, or in one of those magnetic boxes that stick to the inside of the wheel arch. It's so obvious what they're doing when they're fiddling around by the wheel.

Just sitting on a bench opposite the car park watching them do this makes them very nervous. :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 19 March, 2009, 11:12:06 am
I am surprised nobody has played tricks on these drivers!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blah on 19 March, 2009, 01:15:58 pm
If you want some fun then go down to one of the car parks at Richmond Park (or anywhere else people drive down to to go running) and watch the runners about to set off (or come back) from their run. Lots of them leave their car keys on top of one of the front wheels, or in one of those magnetic boxes that stick to the inside of the wheel arch. It's so obvious what they're doing when they're fiddling around by the wheel.

It's the same on any surfing/windsurfing/kitesurfing beach
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: border-rider on 19 March, 2009, 01:34:25 pm

Where do you runners keep your front door keys when you run? Do running vests or shorts have a pocket for them?


In m hand, usually

Or if I'm going via the paper shop (as I often do) I'll wear a small rucksack with a key pocket
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Manotea on 19 March, 2009, 02:03:42 pm
The thought of dropping a key or having it bounce out of a pocket brings me out in hives. I thread the key twice onto a shoe lace before tieing them. Absolutely secure.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 05 April, 2009, 10:35:22 pm
Went to Sherwood forest last week and did the MTB XC course which is great, great fun for a run too (through the forest, on narrow trails); as it was during the week I didn't see more than two riders (and they were of the slow type too). Run it with a fit friend as well to make the experience even more fun!  :thumbsup:

If only I could loose more weight though, to run these faster! <sigh>
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 15 April, 2009, 12:00:10 pm
Just got some lovely Salomon running kit (they do some lovely stuff) to treat myself and keep me going!  :P

A trip to the Peak Districk is planned this WE I think!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Julian on 19 April, 2009, 10:52:46 pm
I found out how to do intervals yesterday!  :thumbsup:

The novelty value may wear off quite soon though, cos it hurts. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 19 April, 2009, 10:59:46 pm
I found out how to do intervals yesterday!  :thumbsup:

The novelty value may wear off quite soon though, cos it hurts. 

It will make the actual event hurt less though.  Interval training lets you achieve more in less time.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jacomus on 22 April, 2009, 11:29:51 pm
I've discovered that it isn't running that makes my knees weak - its cycling. During my 3 month lay-off the bike I started running.

No knee pain what so ever... get back on the bike and I can't run again :(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 23 April, 2009, 10:18:04 pm
I found out how to do intervals yesterday!  :thumbsup:

The novelty value may wear off quite soon though, cos it hurts. 

It will make the actual event hurt less though. 

More accurately you will  likely hurt more during the event, but it will last less long. Depending how you calculate these things that may equate to less overall hurt  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 24 April, 2009, 11:42:30 am
I found out how to do intervals yesterday!  :thumbsup:

The novelty value may wear off quite soon though, cos it hurts. 

It will make the actual event hurt less though. 

More accurately you will  likely hurt more during the event, but it will last less long. Depending how you calculate these things that may equate to less overall hurt  ;D

It will make you able to displace the pain barrier is the exact point I would say; i.e. run hard at a faster pace and for longer.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blah on 24 April, 2009, 02:41:06 pm
Intervals make you learn to love pain. It lets you know where the hurtbox is and how to stay in it for longer.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 27 May, 2009, 11:32:05 am
Entered my first road race in a while for later in June... I will have little hard training as my hipe has lefted me grounded for a while but I'm getting back into it and it is only 5 miles...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 03 June, 2009, 11:03:24 am
Did two woodland trail runs in the woods near Ruford over the week end. The bit if woodlands I run in is located on an incline and, although the area is small, it offered enough trails (grass, dirt, woodedd) and short climbs to entertain myself for up to 50 min. runs. With the heat it was a perfect way to end the days this WE. I wish I had such settings near where I live!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 11 June, 2009, 08:34:04 am
Entered my first road race in a while for later in June... I will have little hard training as my hipe has lefted me grounded for a while but I'm getting back into it and it is only 5 miles...

Well, well, nothing spectacular but a healthy 35 min. (exact race time to be confirmed). The first 3 miles were a doddle; the 4th was pretty bad, mainly because I got my split time wrong and as I was starting to struggle a bit I was also worried I was slowing down way too much. It is quite a bit slower than I would have done the last time I raced over 8 yeras ago, but seeing as I am also 2 stones heavier and have become an occasional jogger rather than a regular runner I'm pleased! Cycling endurance does transfer into some running fitness in my case.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 22 June, 2009, 08:44:48 am
A nice 4.5 Mi at the end of the day on Saturday. I was quite tired after a long week and a long day with baby G that day but forced myself out and it did me good. Stretched well on returning home and was fresh the next moning for a sporting bike ride.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 18 August, 2009, 09:18:13 pm
Took advantage of being away for work to run. Did a 1h, 1h20, 1h30 and 1h40 run on nice forestry trails in Pacific Park, B.C., Canada and did the Grouse Mountain Grind  (http://www.grousemountain.com/Summer/summer-activities/vancouver-bc-hiking-trails-trips/grouse-grind.asp) at the WE, followed by a couple of climbs before turning back due to the weather. Lovely!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 19 August, 2009, 12:40:50 pm
I confess to a twinge of jealousy!

I've been "under the physio" since Jan with a problem where the achilles joins the bone, lots of really good exercises which have helped key muscle groups but no real improvement on the sore spot.  Few weeks ago a cortisone injection seemed to have really helped, vry pleasant run on Sat morning in the pouring rain, run 4 mins, walk 1 min for 35 mins, felt good, running smooth but then very sore all afternoon  :(

B#gger!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 20 August, 2009, 07:48:14 pm
I hope you get better soon.

I was out last night for a good 35 min. run last night, still jet lagged, but going well. I hope to go in the Peak District for a hill/mountain run this WE.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 23 August, 2009, 08:18:04 pm
Okay run in the Peak District (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=10.msg411646#msg411646); beautiful scenery, some nice running section; but a bit disappointed with part of the trail which was tough to run on (impossible in several parts) and by my navigation which left me frustrated as I missed a nice section! Form was okay, considering the trail and the ride yesterday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 27 August, 2009, 08:38:34 am
8 Mi after work around Carsington Water. The North-East and North parts of the shore offer a few steep climbs which challenged me as I felt peckish and a bit tired. In the end I wasn't very fast either, ca 9 Min/Mi, but it was nice to do this run for some of the views and the quietness of the place after work. Back at the car park for 19:00. After I changed and left darkness came quite quickly; so did the rain. Now is the last changes for these evening runs. Must leave work earlier in the future!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 28 August, 2009, 03:47:48 pm
I ran 8 miles this morning, very up and down, on paths and roads. Just under 1 hour, which isn't too bad. But it really ***king hurt! I hadn't run since June and have only been cycling (a lot) since... my achilles' tendons are particularly sore.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 28 August, 2009, 11:17:19 pm
That's quite fast FM, 7 min/Mi, for someone who doesn't run regularly... Wow! I manage that but by the sound of it I run a bit more than you do, although irregularly too. You must stretch more and massage you Achille's!

Okay, so tomorrow the plan is to run Axe Edge Moor, a 12.5 Mi trail, weather permitting. I will probably do something like 9min/Mi +! But will climb 578 m in two steep ascents (one looks tough).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 30 August, 2009, 10:35:11 pm
A nice run on Axe Edge, along Erwood Reservoir and back up to the Cat & Fiddle pass in the Peak District, West of Buxton, yesterday.

More here (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=10.msg415873#msg415873).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 31 August, 2009, 06:33:54 pm
A nice long run and scramble in the Peak District, from Bonsall to Winster, Winsley, Snitterton and back. Over 3 hours plus/with navigation. I am a bit tired now...  :P

On the plus side my new Adidas Kanadia shoes proved very suitable and comfy on their second outing. A bargain at £41 off the interweb!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 06 September, 2009, 09:18:29 pm
A 30 min brisk run to unwind and trial my new Adidas Supernovas. Verdict: Nice comfortable shoes, straight out of the box. Light, potentially fast trainers too. Got my legs to turn over and my body to work on empty, just before dinner. And I made it home just before it started to rain heavily as well.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 07 September, 2009, 09:08:18 pm
Apparently running is an important part of a triathlon, so I've dusted off my green flash and have been plodding round the local paths.  I'm quite enjoying it, actually and I'm up to a steady hour now, or a brisk 30 minutes (steady = 9, brisk = 7.30 / 8 minute mile pace)

I tweaked a calf muscle on a treadmill on holiday a couple of weeks ago but it seems to have recovered now, I guess I was doing too much too soon.  Lots of stretching required.

The 5k of the mini tri should be OK, then I can build up distances a bit to try a proper tri next year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: border-rider on 07 September, 2009, 09:09:29 pm
I was running at altitude last week.  8-12,000 feet.  That's quite hard.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 07 September, 2009, 09:10:54 pm
quite daft, frankly.  Was the bar closed?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 09 September, 2009, 04:27:07 pm
I've never tried more than a mile.  I can just about do a 6.30 mile with a couple of weeks training.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: border-rider on 11 September, 2009, 07:19:16 pm
quite daft, frankly.  Was the bar closed?

By 'eck it made a lumpy 6 miler at close to sea level just now damn easy though :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 11 September, 2009, 11:01:46 pm
My (bike and ferry) commute is very short these days and I am using my Brompton. So I am getting up at dawn for a 4 mile run every day. I do a couple of proper rides on the weekend, both for speed rather than distance. My legs are feeling much better now and I am really enjoying the running, and so far I have seen coyote, deer, skunks, owls and hawks as well as all the smaller things. To add to the cross-training, I am also doing some canoeing again, which is fabulous.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 13 September, 2009, 05:29:16 pm
A longish, slow 70' ride yesterday late afternoon; it was rather warm, but I got better past the 30' mark and the latter part of the run was very pleasant. I also met with a frisky couple of teenage "rabbits" engaged in a rather intimade bit of exercise on a disused lane in the park close to where I live. It made me laugh; I think my arrival caused quite a stir!  ;D

A faster 5 Mi run this morning, followed by a good cool-down and stretching session too. What a change in the weather. My top was soaking wet yesterday and today I had to take a thicker long top in which I barely sweated until I stopped in fact. It was windy too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 13 September, 2009, 05:31:27 pm
I am also doing some canoeing again, which is fabulous.

Envy! I haven't managed to do as much as I wanted over here (kayaking); yet, I am sure that in your parts of the world now it is far better. I recommend you check Explore at your news agent -- a nice mag for he who likes the Canadian outdoor, running, cycling, kayaking and canoeing...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 14 September, 2009, 04:51:50 pm
I am also doing some canoeing again, which is fabulous.

Envy! I haven't managed to do as much as I wanted over here (kayaking); yet, I am sure that in your parts of the world now it is far better. I recommend you check Explore at your news agent -- a nice mag for he who likes the Canadian outdoor, running, cycling, kayaking and canoeing...

Thanks, I will check it out. Too much time doing and not much time for reading about it recently, but that will change come winter - although the cross-country skies and snowshoes and skates will have to come out (as well as the icebike...)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 14 September, 2009, 10:39:46 pm
I have to say that I was very tempted to apply for a job in Vancouver; but my nationality and specialism were not the #1 items on the list, so I didn't. I really like the Canadian attitude to life, the quality of life there and, of course, the whole country!! Do they need fluid mechanics, modelling, gas-liquid or aeroengine experts where you are?!  :P

Enjoy the running, canoeing and cycling!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 15 September, 2009, 09:49:05 pm
Bloody hell, I've just entered an offroad marathon. In November.  Wantage to Avebury along the Ridgeway!  Smoke me a Druid, I'll be back before Solstice.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 15 September, 2009, 10:02:06 pm
Bloody hell, I've just entered an offroad marathon. In November.  Wantage to Avebury along the Ridgeway!  Smoke me a Druid, I'll be back before Solstice.

Sounds nice. Do you have a link? I am no big fan of marathons (too long, too far, too much LSD training) BUT I like running off road and actually enjoy a long run in nice scenery (3.5 hour for my last fell run).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: border-rider on 15 September, 2009, 10:04:24 pm
Bloody hell, I've just entered an offroad marathon. In November.  Wantage to Avebury along the Ridgeway!  Smoke me a Druid, I'll be back before Solstice.

Blimey

That's going to be a fair old climb up from Wantage, and the West Berks  Ridgeway in November will be gloopy as hell.  I used to live not far, and whilst I'd run it in the summer or when frozen hard...

Sounds great :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 15 September, 2009, 10:06:41 pm
Bloody hell, I've just entered an offroad marathon. In November.  Wantage to Avebury along the Ridgeway!  Smoke me a Druid, I'll be back before Solstice.

Blimey

That's going to be a fair old climb up from Wantage, and the West Berks  Ridgeway in November will be gloopy as hell.  I used to live not far, and whilst I'd run it in the summer or when frozen hard...

Sounds great :)

Should we enter a team?!  O:-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 15 September, 2009, 10:20:59 pm
if i was going to run a marathon, that one sounds great!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 15 September, 2009, 10:22:33 pm
if i was going to run a marathon, that one sounds great!

Andy, we're only waiting for your link to enter a team yACF!  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Julian on 15 September, 2009, 10:23:29 pm
I'm still building distance, going from being unable to run for a bus last October to being unable to run more than 5km now.  Still, I can at least run now, although I've not yet managed much below a 10 minute mile.

Which thankfully makes me far too slow to be part of the yACF marathon team. ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: clarion on 15 September, 2009, 10:28:07 pm
I am impressed. 

I have a note from my mum excusing me from being in the yacf Marathon Team, on account of my kit's in the wash, and I can't run without creating alarming respiratory noises and collupsing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 15 September, 2009, 11:33:40 pm
Druid Challenge // The Druid Challenge Ridgeway Multistage Ultra :: XNRG Extreme Energy :: xnrg.co.uk // xnrg.org.uk (http://www.xnrg.co.uk/events_druidchallenge09.htm)

I'm in 10k form, but I know from practice that 10k form means I can pull a half-marathon out of my arse with a little luck and performance-enhancing pies.  So if I get into half-marathon form, clearly, I'm sorted.  Honest.  And it's Wayland and that's my happy place. 

Oh barmcakes, I'd forgotten about Dragon Hill.  :o

Still, tattooed biker totty has already promised to have a pint waiting at the Red Lion.  And I can always break into a walk.  Now, will it stay dry enough for the Fivefingers?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: border-rider on 15 September, 2009, 11:37:16 pm
Where do you climb up to the Ridgeway from ?

Once you're up there it's reasonably level.

I used to run into work the other way at one time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 15 September, 2009, 11:43:58 pm
Haven't a clue.  Will await the race pack nearer the time; the stage starts at Wantage sports centre but that might just be the administrative start. 

Mmm, mandatory gear includes a space blanket.  I feel all boyscouty!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 16 September, 2009, 12:08:46 am
Druid Challenge // The Druid Challenge Ridgeway Multistage Ultra :: XNRG Extreme Energy :: xnrg.co.uk // xnrg.org.uk (http://www.xnrg.co.uk/events_druidchallenge09.htm)


That looks like fun.
Is there really going to be a YACF team?
I might have to google some bus companies to see if I can do it.
Then do a bit of running around to get used to running.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 16 September, 2009, 12:53:31 am
If I thought my knees would take it I would be tempted by a marathon.  It's my left knee.  She cannae take it cap'n.

A couple of weeks' training the last couple of Octobers got me down to 6'30 mile in time for Children Need the last few years.  Given how fit training for and riding LEL's got me I might be faster this year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 16 September, 2009, 11:13:12 am
Druid Challenge // The Druid Challenge Ridgeway Multistage Ultra :: XNRG Extreme Energy :: xnrg.co.uk // xnrg.org.uk (http://www.xnrg.co.uk/events_druidchallenge09.htm)
i

Wow it's an ultra marathon!! I thought you said "marathon"!

'Tis something I could be tempted to do though. Must check the time minima. Have ot most of the kit bar a whistle!

More later.

EDIT: Are you doing the 3-day or one leg only? If so, which?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 16 September, 2009, 06:04:32 pm
I'm getting ever more tempted.
If I do it, it'll be the Saturday one.
Logistics of getting to and from the start and finish are the biggest PITA for me. It'd be easier if it started and finished at the same place so that I could cycle there and cycle home afterwards.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 16 September, 2009, 06:07:45 pm
I'm getting ever more tempted.
If I do it, it'll be the Saturday one.
Logistics of getting to and from the start and finish are the biggest PITA for me. It'd be easier if it started and finished at the same place so that I could cycle there and cycle home afterwards.


you're getting soft!   Run with this on your back, then scoot home :)
Bergmönch, the Bicycle that Folds into a Rucksack : TreeHugger (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/01/bergmonch-bike-folds-into-backpack.php)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 16 September, 2009, 06:15:46 pm
Getting soft?
Well, one idea I have is to do the run on Saturday and run back to my bike on Sunday.
Not sure I could do it though. I think the Saturday will probably do me in. I only run ran about 6 miles a week.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 16 September, 2009, 06:34:44 pm
I'm doing just the last day.  One marathon is enough for this little black duck! 

But yes, it's a three-day ultra with each day approximately a marathon along the Ridgeway, with sleepovers at the stops.  Kit is supported between bases.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 17 September, 2009, 08:44:42 am
I could be tempted with one day too; question of time and training. I haven't run longer than 3.5 hours with a light backpack though, in recent times. I'll mull over it at the WE and talk to the girls at home.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 17 September, 2009, 10:35:55 am
I ain't even done that.  A Half is my biggest, and that was kitless and on-road. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 17 September, 2009, 01:28:23 pm
I ain't even done that.  A Half is my biggest, and that was kitless and on-road. 

Oh well, don't worry too much. You'll run slower off road anyway. I used to target the 80' mark for a half on the road. Off road and in the PD hills I can sometimes spend twice that, for a shorter distance even, due to the profile and my navigation skills maybe!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 17 September, 2009, 04:21:22 pm
Andy, that looks absolutely mental... so I am sure you'll do just fine!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 05 October, 2009, 06:24:21 pm
 :'( :'( :'( :'(

I'm going to have to skip the weights for a few weeks, while I get this marathon in.  The recovery times just add up to more than the clock time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 15 October, 2009, 09:39:28 am
Heads up!  Aldi are doing running kit starting today.  Quality and price on a par with their bike gear (ideal starter / training stuff). 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 19 October, 2009, 09:38:17 pm
Lovely run yesterday, in the autumn sun, to break the many miles I do in the week on the bike AND to fit the little time (1h) I had too!

Don't know about Aldi kit, but running shoes need to be good ones to avoid injury, unless one is a super feather weight! Running with Adidas Supernovas at present: Great shoes!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 23 October, 2009, 11:43:18 am
I'm back to being optimistic again! Did a 10K race last Sunday, Cancer Research thing round trails in the grounds of Scone palace. Really nice course and I clocked 42+ minutes.  Quite pleased considering I'm not running more than twice a week and mostly in pain.

MRI scan on my Achilles this pm, and a road 10k at Jedburgh on Sunday - maybe I've turned a corner?




Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 24 October, 2009, 06:59:01 pm
Well done Rich!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 25 October, 2009, 01:07:13 pm
My own Achille's heel is playing again. It is very stiff at the moment (right foot); I never feel it when I cycle and didn't feel it much when I did my long mountain runs in the summer, but last week and this week [this morning at least] it has been stiff, making some runs slightly uncomfortable. I guess I will not be up to scratch for an ultra race soon.  :( Hope to do a x-country next WE though!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 25 October, 2009, 07:38:33 pm
The splints of the shin of the DEVIL aborted my last long run today; I'm resting for a week.  Cue pre-race angst and fretting...   ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 25 October, 2009, 08:39:51 pm
lovely five mile run this afternoon.  My foot was really sore last week but changing back to normal laces (from stretchy tri time-cheating ones) and getting the shoes a bit tighter round my toes seems to have done the trick.

Lots more this week.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 31 October, 2009, 11:07:59 am
going stir crazy resting these pins ???
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 31 October, 2009, 09:50:43 pm
No pool and no bike so I have been running. Not much, but enjoying it, even on a treadmill.

Start at 7mph and go up 0.1 mph every .25 miles. Gets me some exercise.

..d
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 01 November, 2009, 12:55:42 am
I started a bit gingerly because I wasn't sure about my knee.  An 8kph jog then ramped it up to about 12.5kph which is a run.  12.5kph is 7.76mph - so starting at 7mph would have felt quite fast.

Fun run is on the 20th.  In the past I've be able to do a 1.1 mile lap in approx 7 minutes, so need to be able to run at almost 9.5mph average by then.  Preferably a little bit faster to try to get a sub 7 minute time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 01 November, 2009, 02:11:07 am
I think it is just my natural rhythm - running slower than about 6.8 is laboured, but it is nice to warm up a bit and then get intense before my brain fries on the treadmill.

Still carrying too much weight to run for long before the legs start to ache some in 'carrying far to much weight' ways rather than run too far ways.

..d
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 03 November, 2009, 09:38:11 pm
I did 30 mins on the treadmill tonight, ramped speed up to 13kph.  Which, after my 5000m rowing felt pretty brisk.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: geraldc on 04 November, 2009, 12:33:21 am
Found something to do when the London Marathon is on TV. I'll be running the Brighton Marathon. Time to start training
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 04 November, 2009, 10:17:11 am
Got results from MRI scan last night - as they suspected problem is scar tissue on achilles where it joins the bone.  Challenge is to break down the scar tissue over time.

Expect to be months and months to complete recovery, becos' this area has a very poor blood supply, but I'm allowed (encouraged even) to run, short and sharp is good.  Lots of stretching and strengthening stuff.  Expect pain but manage around it - which is OK.

So I'm pretty bullish today! 

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 09 November, 2009, 01:46:42 pm
Druid Challenge - Muddy Funsters

Well, I made 20 miles before all the wheels fell off my wagon.

It opened in thick mist (and stoats hunting bunnies) and the first half was decent: everyone was walking the hills and saving their energy, so my strategy wasn't out of place. When the mist lifted it was only to allow proper rain.

Halfway through, around the White Horse, my right knee (o Judas knee) went sproing. After some pissing and moaning, and some experimenting, I was able to carry on to the next checkpoint with a mix of walking and some weird short-step running called the "Ironman shuffle".

After that, things froze up more and I was in walk-or-die mode. The next few miles were weird, a single file of knackered walkers in a stark hilltop-and-mist landscape: it looked like the pogrom scenes from Fiddler On The Roof. I was expecting Cossacks to come riding out of the mist.

...and that was followed by a few miles of wallow through churned mud, and after that - with the finish on the horizon, dammit, my other knee went and I was reduced to shuffling like an old lady who needs a poo. At under 1kph (and occasionally in tears) there was no way I'd reach the end before the end of the day, so I had to call my minions and get helicoptered out.

Gutted that I DNF'd.

Happy that I did my longest run ever, and did an epic bloodyminded carryon. Kit was perfect, etc etc.

This one is not 'unfinished business'

So what went wrong? Let's start with trying to scale from 10k to marathon in ten weeks. That was optimistic. It was based, if I'm honest, on my experience with cycling where you can do that. Of course, on a bike, you don't carry your own weight, and a bike that will do ten miles will do a hundred. On a run, you do. It's more important to do close to race distance. In addition I wasn't at race-weight, so I was carrying more - but that's secondary.

I'd trained offroad up at Woodbury, but not in the weird clingy chalk mud that the Ridgeway has. That stuff was like a rink and at times my shoes clogged and I was reduced to hilarious mincing. The knees didn't like that. Rain, cold - that was fine. But wallowy mud really hit.

What's with the knees? Flexibility! The old short hamstrings mare up when extending the leg, and the grumble spreads until any torsion (like correcting foot position in mud) is quite ouchy.  With repetition, ouchy gets to "unable to bear weight" and it all goes wrong.  Descents were brutal.  That right knee's betrayed me before - time for some proper flexibility work, alas. 

Druid Challenge - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/andygates/sets/72157622642200307/)

After a sleep and a slow walk to the shops (to get ice packs) it's clear that the usual battered feet, toenails, ankles, shins etc are there, just hiding under the Knees of Death.  The left is just sore, the right's taken some soft tissue damage.  Ice, rest and slow increase in activity to get it healthy, then I need to chase down a physio and address the causes.

Huge respect to the Druid ultra guys, who are all weird smiley buddhists.  The toothless one who grinned fangily and told me to "march through it" in the Checkovian hills was cool; the guy who did all three days in Fivefingers was awesome.  The little Asian girl who steamed past me twice (checkpoint pit stop overlap) and the strapping tall lass with thighs like salt beef (it was cold, mumblers were the wrong shorts, Grommit) were also inspiring. ;)

Going to lie down for a bit...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: border-rider on 09 November, 2009, 03:21:49 pm
Great report Andy - sorry it didn't pan out

+1 to the claggy mud though.  Foul stuff indeed.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 09 November, 2009, 04:37:26 pm
Half of me wanted to go home.   The other half wanted to buy MudClaws.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: border-rider on 09 November, 2009, 04:40:46 pm
That  would be a great run in the summer - though the mud sets like, well, clay when it dries out - or when it's freezing.  I used to run that stretch of the Ridgeway a lot when we lived near there.  Rarely in November though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 09 November, 2009, 06:19:34 pm
I wonder why?  O:-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 09 November, 2009, 06:20:47 pm
Reminds me of the claggy mud on the Star Trek orienteering event I did on Exmoor on the 28th Feb this year.  Lovely when you're in a hurry to make the next checkpoint on time :)

In the dark for extra falling over fun.  Not that I did though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Manotea on 09 November, 2009, 06:57:52 pm
Ive been thinking about getting some winter running shoes though the nearest I get to cross country is the tamsin path round richmond park. What shoes were you using, Andy? Those mudclaws look fearsome...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 09 November, 2009, 07:01:55 pm
Good try Andy :thumbsup:
Also, running with your feet clogged up in clay is like running with ankle weights. The Ridgeway is notorious among local mountain bikers as a bog pit if there is any rain. That's 14 miles further than I've ever ran, and it was off road over hills too. I reckon I could do the distance fitness wise, but it's a matter of getting the legs used to the running and on even surfaces to boot. 10 weeks isn't much time for that!
Are you going to try for a marathon again?
(but maybe with more preperation time beforehand)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 09 November, 2009, 07:31:02 pm
good work Andy, very impressive. I hope the knees recover fairly quickly!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 09 November, 2009, 07:41:32 pm
What shoes were you using, Andy? Those mudclaws look fearsome...

Helly Hansen Trailcutters: very light slipper-like shoes with nice soft grippy all-way tread, dandy for wet and dry but with no mud-shedding to speak off.  Seems mud-shedding is a special trait for extreme fell-running nutter shoes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 09 November, 2009, 07:56:36 pm
Epic! Sounds like a good event. Were you trying to do all 3 stages?!?

(It's in my backyard too. Reading the itinererarary I started thinking - hey, I could shuffle 20-odd miles in 10 hours, MAYBE for 3 days. But that would require June-July day lengths ... )

GWS, don't run before you can walk etc ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 09 November, 2009, 09:21:11 pm
Gods no!  I don't have the ethereal, enlightened, Dalai-Lama smile that they do.  I have touched the shorts of greatness, but it's not my gig.

OTOH it did introduce me to long easy countryside runs, and those are a delight, and I'll be keeping that up (to a degree, at least).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 09 November, 2009, 10:59:39 pm
Running certainly is different.  I can cycle 155 miles in a day (Saturday just gone, par exemple), and not be sore the next day.  Run a single solitary mile and I'm sore for 2 days.  Of course on day 3 I do it again and am not sore the next day.  It does seem to require a lot more building up, though.

I'm currently trying to get up to speed for a 1.1 mile run on the 20th.  So I have been on the treadmill once a week for 30 minutes at the gym.  Tonight I played 5-a-side.  There was a bit of trepidation that my knee was going to really complain.  Far from it - not a single twinge.  The treadmill work has helped.  I also changed my footwear - I'm wearing my running shoes instead of my Sambas.  This means less grip; initially I fell over a lot but it means when I turn, my foot doesn't stick so my knee isn't being twisted as much.  This is good.  Also have orthotics in there to prevent over-pronation, as I'm a little bit flat-footed.

It's all good and has me thinking I should get into running regularly as cross training activity N.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 09 November, 2009, 11:08:11 pm
I googled mudclaw - they seem to have some really nice shoes there.

I'm finding the running and swimming is certainly helping, but I can't do them for much longer than about 30 mins at the moment without getting bored (unless I get outdoors when running).

Must source some good outdoor running shoes rather than sliding around in my trainers.

..d
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 09 November, 2009, 11:32:10 pm
I didn't get bored at swimming class last week.  I got confused and knackered.   ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 10 November, 2009, 08:46:47 am
I didn't get bored at swimming class last week.  I got confused and knackered.   ;D


I don't get confused... The swimming is coming on slowly. Feels like I might actually hit some technique soon and be able to string together a couple of lengths of proper crawl.

..d
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 10 November, 2009, 09:34:58 am
Also have orthotics in there to prevent over-pronation, as I'm a little bit flat-footed.

Are you flat-footed as in fallen arches? Or as in over-pronated ankle position? If the latter, it can be improved by postural therapy. Probably. Your ankles will work better in the ...err long run. The orthotics may still be sensible when running.   IANAQPhysio etc ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 13 November, 2009, 02:24:58 pm
Also have orthotics in there to prevent over-pronation, as I'm a little bit flat-footed.

Are you flat-footed as in fallen arches? Or as in over-pronated ankle position? If the latter, it can be improved by postural therapy. Probably. Your ankles will work better in the ...err long run. The orthotics may still be sensible when running.   IANAQPhysio etc ...

A bit of both really. Physio suggested postural changes and orthotics.

Ran 5.5km at lunch time, took 27:30 over it. That includes lace tying at half way.  :facepalm:

Will be able to analyse it properly at home.
 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 13 November, 2009, 09:52:25 pm
I googled mudclaw - they seem to have some really nice shoes there.

If you want an entry level trail shoe look at Adidas Kanadia Trails. They are pretty decent for £40. Very pleased with mine, though buy at least one extra size. On the road I currently use Adidas Supernovas; quite soft compared to my old favourites, Asics 2000 and GT series, but what I need now that I am heavier, older and slower!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 14 November, 2009, 12:11:38 am
Just to add my (belated) congratulations - well done Andy, good effort and great report that gave a good flavour of your trial and tribulations.

I've done a bunch of  long runs over peat, which can get pretty soggy but it doesn't have the death-grip of clay-mud - rather you than me for sure .
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 15 November, 2009, 03:42:19 pm
3 mile run this afternoon - took me 29 minutes (HR zone 3).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 17 November, 2009, 10:37:24 pm
Friday's run:

Garmin Connect -
      Activity Details for
            Untitled   (http://connect.garmin.com/activity/18739011)

Sunday:

Garmin Connect -
      Activity Details for
            Untitled   (http://connect.garmin.com/activity/18814689)

Tonight's 5-a-side game (no map, used the foot pod as was indoors):

Garmin Connect -
      Activity Details for
            Untitled   (http://connect.garmin.com/activity/19058926)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 17 November, 2009, 11:18:19 pm
3 mile run this afternoon - took me 29 minutes (HR zone 3).


This is a jog...  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Chris S on 17 November, 2009, 11:28:48 pm
3 mile run this afternoon - took me 29 minutes (HR zone 3).


This is a jog...  ;)

Hehe - you runners...  ::-)

I once proudly announced to Fidgetbuzz that I'd "run" on the treadmill at the gym at 6mph; to which he snorted - "Pfft... that's not running...!"

Yeah yeah... and riding a bike 200km is not "long distance cycling" - we all get the pissing contest idea;  ;D.

Personally - I would fall apart at the seams if I tried to run three miles. Good work Bridget.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 17 November, 2009, 11:38:25 pm
3 mile run this afternoon - took me 29 minutes (HR zone 3).


This is a jog...  ;)

Yeah I know.  I actually found it very hard going that slow.  I chose the HR zone and had to keep slowing down because naturally I like to go a bit faster.  I didn't find it a problem on the treadmill but on the road it feels very slow.

On Friday the plan was jog 1 lap, run 1 lap, jog 1 lap.  It was a fast jog/slow run for most of the first lap and slow run/run for the second lap, and fast jog, speeding up to slow run for the final lap.

My pace for the event itself is usually about 15kph (1.1 miles in about 7 minutes).


Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 17 November, 2009, 11:50:01 pm
3 mile run this afternoon - took me 29 minutes (HR zone 3).


This is a jog...  ;)

Hehe - you runners...  ::-)

I once proudly announced to Fidgetbuzz that I'd "run" on the treadmill at the gym at 6mph; to which he snorted - "Pfft... that's not running...!"

Yeah yeah... and riding a bike 200km is not "long distance cycling" - we all get the pissing contest idea;  ;D.

Personally - I would fall apart at the seams if I tried to run three miles. Good work Bridget.

Did I not mention how sore I was on Saturday?  ::-)

I set the alarm for 6.45am on Sunday.  I woke up, thought "too sore for a 200" and went back to sleep.  After more sleep and a bit of hobbling when I got up (stiff ankle) I decided to do a slow run to keep it ticking over.  I did feel better for it.

I always feel sore when I put my running shoes on in early November and train for the fun run.  Muscles are simply not used to the impact and they need to adapt.  It's the same every year (I've done it 4 times now, this will be my 5th go).  I am very sore after the first run, after the second I am much better, and by the day of the event my time for a lap has gone from 8:40 to 7:01.  This year I was doing 30 minutes on the treadmill in the couple of weeks before - it didn't make the slightest bit of difference.  It's much too forgiving and doesn't prepare you for running on the road.

Last year I was 86th fastest male runner out of 321, and in 2007 56th out of 267.


Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 18 November, 2009, 12:03:26 am
3 mile run this afternoon - took me 29 minutes (HR zone 3).


This is a jog...  ;)

Hehe - you runners...  ::-)

I know, I know...

For the record I don't consider myself a runner anymore (though I can still maintain a 7 min/Mi for medium distance runs (say 10k), and maybe a tad faster if I get into "racing" mode whatever this means now!, and managed a 3hr30 mountain sortie this summer; a pity I am about two stones heavier than when I felt like a runner...).

I always found treadmill or track/lap running (except for specific training sessions, like reps) very tedious. Just get out there. For me running in a scenic environment helps a lot fight the boredom.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 18 November, 2009, 08:27:17 am
First time for a while that I have run in over the Law. This is a 3-400m warm up gently downhill, then 800m of unrelenting steps and uphill to the top. The last part being irregular wood/earth steps in zig zags. Ouch!
However, I got into work in a much quicker time than anticipated so might have to try to find a longer flatter bit to finish it off with in the mornings and take it nearer the 45min mark. Maybe do both hills?

Now time for a shower and coffee.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 20 November, 2009, 07:50:19 pm
Well, the race was today.  I targeted a sub 7 minute time, and set the GPS for a 3:57/km pace and thought if I beat that then I would be right.  Unfortunately the course is slightly longer so I think I did 7:08 (last I checked the official results weren't up) which matches last year.

As last year was a first leg (no baton handover to take into account and slightly shorter in theory) and I matched that time, that's OK though.

Garmin Connect -
      Activity Details for
            Untitled   (http://connect.garmin.com/activity/19266593)

I felt better physically on the run than in the past (in terms of being out of breath and tired during the middle to latter part of the run) so maybe could have gone a shade faster.  I found the final sprint quite easy.

OTOH by the finish my HR had climbed to 189 bpm so I was clearly pushing myself hard.

When I came in to the handover the announcer said we were top 10 so we may have a top 10 finish.  I took one place on my lap but the final runner lost one* so it depends how far inside the top 10 we were.

* He got passed twice but retook one of them.  He jogged round in fancy dress in parallel with the 1st lap of our team.  That probably took a bit out of him.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 20 November, 2009, 08:03:21 pm
The results are in: I managed a time of 7:06; slowest in our team, but faster than anyone in our other teams, so my position is safe for now.  :thumbsup:

We came 9th overall.  Woo hoo!  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 22 November, 2009, 01:00:19 pm
Nice night 50' run across fields, along the river and then through the local woodland; I had to run more slowly because of the water everywhere which the Petzl thankfully helped see! Enjoyed it much; saw nobody!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 22 November, 2009, 02:46:15 pm
After my rowing stint today I did some intervals on the treadmill.  3 minutes on 3 off, 14kph fast (except for the second which was 14.5) and 8kph slow pace.  I did four of them.  449 kcals burned.  Hard work.

Garmin Connect -
      Activity Details for
            Interval training on the treadmill   (http://connect.garmin.com/activity/19400985)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 29 November, 2009, 04:34:20 pm
55' run in glorious sunshine this morning. Probably 7.5 Mi. Some of the trails were very, very wet! Good warm down it seems as my Achille's heel is not complaining so far.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 30 November, 2009, 10:24:55 pm
Nice one, Frenchie, good for you.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 01 December, 2009, 10:47:24 pm
Nice one, Frenchie, good for you.


How are you getting on?

My shoes are now dry but terribly muddy; somehow, it makes me happy and wanting to go out in the woods or the hills.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 07 December, 2009, 02:29:12 pm
Thanks for asking.

I'm cautiously optimistic - I know what my problem is (inflamed achilles tendon), I know it will get better but very slowly, I can expect it to hurt like f@#k occasionally  but I can run up to an hour OK.

So running 2-3 times a week, feeling stronger week by week, enjoying splashing through puddles, not enjoying descents made precarious by mud! 

Actually I'm underplaying this - I'm joyous at being able to strap on a pair of shoes and just go run, it's so liberating  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 18 December, 2009, 05:23:21 pm
Run in the snow at lunchtime - brilliant!  Is there a better simple pleasure than running in 5 cms of untracked new snow on a bright clear day?

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 20 December, 2009, 11:39:42 pm
I run in the bitter cold during the week when I was in Germany on business. With the end to a busy few months, long hours and delayed planes meaning I made it home at 1:15am, I only managed a 45' run this WE, late today. Running in some snow, in the dark, with some nice music is one of the best treats ever! Loved it!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 29 December, 2009, 08:02:49 pm
Guess what?  I CAN RUN AGAIN!!! 

A wardrobe malfunction meant I missed the gym, so when I got in I suited up for a little easy jog - 17 minutes with a few dashes.  Knees: GOLDEN.  (Calves cramping, feet aching, glutes startled, shins tweaking, but that's just conditioning)

Jack's back, baby, Jack's back. :D

So for reference that's 8 weeks off running, most off the bike as well, for running through an obvious Something Wrong for several hours.  I've put on half a stone too.  Let that be a lesson to any macho types!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 31 December, 2009, 05:08:29 pm
Great news, good for you. 

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 06 January, 2010, 01:53:40 pm
I haven't touched my bike for over two weeks now; but I have been running every other day at least and daily recently. We were staying in Rutland and I have enjoyed a whole range of trail and off road runs in the snow for the most part, ranging from 50' to 120'. I did run along the North Shore quite a bit, then to Eggleton, around the peninsual (from Barnsdale and back) but also went to explore Bourne Woods which I enjoyed as well. I managed two night runs with my Petzl, one in the woods and in open fields along a track I thankfully knew well enough by then, as the sun was coming down on Rutland Water. Sheer joy!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 06 January, 2010, 05:36:15 pm
lovely run in the snow this afternoon, really squeaky :)   I had to walk a couple of icy bits but apart from that it was damn fine!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: border-rider on 06 January, 2010, 05:37:27 pm
I'm going to give it a go tomorrow, but it was hard to walk in places today cos it was so deep.  I dunno what running will be like.  Maybe easier, if it has frozen...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 06 January, 2010, 06:35:53 pm
The main issue, I find, with thick snow is that the top of the shoe can get covered in snow which in melting and over time leads to wet feet, even with good off road shoes. But other than that I find that little beats cold, in the snow off-road or trail running.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 06 January, 2010, 06:45:15 pm
yes, my feet were absolutely frozen by the time I got back but it's only 45 minutes of cold, well worth it IMHO :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 07 January, 2010, 11:16:10 pm
My feet very rarely get cold running - only exception is hillrunning through melting snow which is a purgatorial experience.

Current condition round us are absolutely fantastic for running.  Very cold, which gives beautifully clear air, and some untreated roads that provide a lovely firm but forgiving surface with that wonderful "snow-squeak"!

Mind you 45 mins in -12 did give me frozen cheeks - wouldn't have wanted to be out much longer.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 10 January, 2010, 07:41:23 pm
Lovely run yesterday afternoon with my good friend Julian; 45', felt cold too, but the snow offered a great footing and made the route very pretty. I felt lazy today and didn't go out; more tomorrow I hope!

PS Lovely route (pictures) MV.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 12 January, 2010, 12:04:40 am
Damn weather: I wanted to run off road tonight having arrived home not so late; well I would have been better off sticking to the roads as the paths I went alon were ice rinks! I eventually rejoined the road but with trail shoes that wasn't great.

Lessons: (1) Must dig out spikes next time around or (2) must stick to the road; alternatively use spikes and go to the track! It'll be boring but safe!  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 12 January, 2010, 07:21:44 am
I bought some innov8 trainers at the weekend (these ones, I think: Inov-8 running shoes, mens and womens shoes for fell, trail running, orienteering and free running (http://www.inov-8.com/Products-Detail.asp?PG=PG1&L=26&P=5050973044) , because they were the only ones the shop had in a size 12).  The difference in grip was amazing, ice was still a no-go, but slush and icy snow were a piece of cake.   Very pleased with them and they should keep me going through the muddy thaw too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: border-rider on 12 January, 2010, 08:18:37 am
I've got some New Balance Off Road shoes, and they're very good on snow.  The mesh uppers aren't ideal though...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 12 January, 2010, 02:16:10 pm
I use Adidas trail shoes (and have some Adidas road shoes as well for the matter) and am very pleased with them for road, grass, mud and snow runs (though they are stiff on the road as most such shoes are, in particular if they have rock guards in the sole); on polished ice though, only spikes would have done last night!

Inov-8 do get a good press as a specialist off road and moutain running company.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on 22 January, 2010, 08:53:09 pm
I have a hall full of Inov-8s and rank them highly.  In fact over the last 5 weeks I've pretty much exclusively been wearing either Gore-Tex Roclites or Mudroc "O"s with Sealskinz socks as the only thing to keep me going in the snow.

We're still inundated: thinking that the snow was clearing, I headed off up into the forest today, fed up of the same route along the only semi-cleared quiet country road in the area.  Unfortunately I was confronted with 5 miles of shin-deep snow with a frozen crust that was so tough to run in that just trying to walk got me into my target heart rate range, and a run that took nearly twice as long as normal.

Despite the frustration, I was amazed that although I was the only biped who'd been along these tracks for weeks, the local wildlife had been very active.  There was a profusion of even quite recent tracks crossing the trail, suggesting a hive of activity which is normally quite invisible to me on my daily treks.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blah on 25 January, 2010, 01:28:20 pm
I've got some New Balance Off Road shoes, and they're very good on snow.  The mesh uppers aren't ideal though...

The idea of the mesh uppers is that in most multi terrain races, you'll be going through a ditch or some kind of water feature. The focus is then on getting the water out of the shoe as quickly as possible. I've never understood why you'd want to make a running shoe even remotely waterproof, although I am enjoying my nearly unused gore-text Innov8's that I got second hand for next to nothing
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 25 January, 2010, 05:23:34 pm
And so it begins. 20 minutes on the treadmill at 10.5kph (1o incline).

After 5 minutes my HR was up to 172bpm and usual cardiac drift took it up to 190bpm by the end. Joy upon joy. Guess I'm not as fit as I was a few months ago. My total distance run in 2010 is greater than my total distance cycled so far. Forgot my Forerunner chest strap so I can't tell for sure about the HR, had to resort to backup old Polar and the readout on the treadmill itself.

Someone had replaced the usual trance-shit CD with an Akon album, I only realised 30 seconds into my run. That's some drivel to listen to for 19 and a half minutes. Must remember to bring in mp3 player with my choice of music on it and leave it in my locker.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: geraldc on 25 January, 2010, 05:42:29 pm
I'm following a guide on heart rate training, so I have to try keep my heart rate between 130 - 140 bpm. It results in amazingly slow runs (even for me), but it doesn't kill your legs which is awesome!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 01 February, 2010, 01:57:16 pm
Ooh, the BBC have picked up on Tough Guy.

BBC News - In pictures: Tough Guy Challenge (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/8490812.stm)

I've done it twice, 1999 and 2000. Great fun (in hindsight).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 01 February, 2010, 02:03:24 pm
Started running in vff's.  Up to a whole kilometer now.  Calves like wood.  Progress to be anticipated..!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 01 February, 2010, 02:17:13 pm
ooh, interesting! Are you more POSE or heel-strike? What gives out first at this magic kilometre mark?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 01 February, 2010, 02:51:06 pm
I started running very much in the shoe-of-a-thousand-technologies school.  Flirted with forefoot but never got into it.  I've been treating the vff a bit like a fixie - a funny training aid and cool pose.  ;)

With the vff's I'm completely on the ball of the foot, slightly outside - everything comes from there, with the calf working like a spring and heel just dabbing the ground before the drive.  It feels faster over the ground (longer effective leg?) but I haven't timed it.

Nothing gives out, so much as I have an absurd calf pump and have to stop - it's purely conditioning, not biomechanics.  The DOMS lasts around five days at this stage (bear in mind that I'm a heavy runner - 100kg at present - and haven't been running since my knee problem in early November). 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 01 February, 2010, 07:52:22 pm
Ah OK. I've recently**  switched to POSE running, but in my case I think I've ended up running rather like your desccriptiuon (I think POSE allows for a range of contact sequences, but anyway ... ). I've stuck with middish-range cushioned* shoes, rather than your trendy things, but I am interested in the various minimalist shoes.

That knackered-calves feeling is exactly what I got the last time I restarted running after months of just cycling. I'm lighter than you, and managed a cautions 15mins (which is hopefully more than 1k!). Calves still ached like billy-o afterward, and I'd barely got out of breath.

* (I haven't read a convincing explanation of why cushioned shoes are actually _bad_ for you with POSE, so I'll stick with the shoes that fit me for now).
** (2 years but very few miles.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 02 February, 2010, 11:50:43 am
Be really interested to see how you get on with the vff shoes - seem to me to be pretty sound biomechanically.  Closer to barefoot is better!  Maybe you saw this ...
         Video: Running barefoot may mean fewer injuries than wearing trainers |
            Science |
            guardian.co.uk
    (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/video/2010/jan/27/running-barefoot-injuries-trainers)

I'm confused about POSE running (similar to chi running?).  The theory sounds bizarre - how can gravity help, makes no sense - but the practice seems sound.  Again, hope you keep us up to date on your progress.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 02 February, 2010, 12:23:10 pm
I'm confused about POSE running (similar to chi running?).  The theory sounds bizarre - how can gravity help, makes no sense - but the practice seems sound.  Again, hope you keep us up to date on your progress.
Like most complicated subjects, there is a lot of drivel written by a lot of people! Of course gravity doesn't help!
I basically think of it as reducing the impediments to forward motion. Plus I see a an analogy with high-cadence pedalling - it seems intuitively obvious that a higher cadence means less impact per step/cycle, so less wear on joints etc.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 02 February, 2010, 12:41:14 pm
(You simply cannot heel-strike in vff's, it's impossible.  Gait adjusts automagically)

The cycling cadence analogy isn't precise.  You're load-bearing, which is what caught me out on the Druid.  Now the Druid was all about time, but I wonder how much turnover has to play.  Probably it holds, but not necessarily...

Calves are a LOT better today than they were after run #1.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 02 February, 2010, 03:01:11 pm
Andy,

would appreciate more detail on your choice of vff model - which one and why, and where did you get them?  how did you find the sizing? 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 02 February, 2010, 03:09:15 pm
I have the red Sprints.  I figured the strap would keep them on when wallowing in bogs, etc.  KSO is too shoe-y IMO and web comments on the classic said they sometimes came off when, well, wallowing in bogs.  The strap doesn't rub egregiously though YMMV. 

I am usually a size 45; in VFF I'm 42.  I got 'em from fitnessfootwear.com and to get the sizing right, used the official size guide here: Vibram Five Fingers: Discover the Barefooting Alternative (http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/products/index.cfm ) I found sizing just fine - I have broadish flattish feet without any mutant toes or talons. 

The red is truly atomic tart's-knickers red.  On feet it's not sporty so much as brazen - I'd have chosen the more muted taupe/clay if I'd seen them first. 

VFFs do get stinky.  Bung 'em in the wash.  They're designed for it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 02 February, 2010, 03:25:19 pm
Great, thanks.

I thought the mesh over the top of the KSOs would keep bits of grit etc out - but you haven't hd a problem like that?  Your feet sound similar to mine, broadish and flattish!

and thanks for the colour advice -  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 02 February, 2010, 04:16:19 pm
I haven't really run in super-gritty places.  The KSO was added to the range after exactly that feedback. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 02 February, 2010, 04:37:13 pm
Another 25 minutes at 10.5kph on the treadmill.

Remembered to bring mp3 player in and so I had the benefit of banging choons. Certainly makes it much easier than hearing each and every footfall.

First time in ages I've felt like I could have gone on for longer.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 07 February, 2010, 12:09:45 pm
Just done a 10k fun run.
It hurt my calves quite a bit. I seemed to have a very high cadence compared to everyone else. I tried slowing it down and taking bigger strides which seemed a bit better. I did end up going back to my fast cadence now and then though. A good dash for the uphill finish made me dizzy when I crossed the line which was quite nice.
Dunno what time I did. It was under an hour for sure. Probably 50-55 minutes. It was reassuring to know that I put about 15 minutes into some marathon hopefulls. Especially as I've entered a half marathon and will be starting it this day next month. :o
I'd better get some running miles in...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 07 February, 2010, 11:01:51 pm
The thinking is that higher cadence (within limits!) is better - discouraging heel-striking and reducing impact forces.  Too long strides is believed to encourage shin splints ( a bad thing)

round about 180 bpm - try counting every right footfall for a minute, and if it's round about 90 then you are up there with the Kenyans  ;D

good luck with your half marathin

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 07 February, 2010, 11:15:39 pm
Up to a whole mile with the vff's. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 07 February, 2010, 11:46:32 pm
The thinking is that higher cadence (within limits!) is better - discouraging heel-striking and reducing impact forces.  Too long strides is believed to encourage shin splints ( a bad thing)

round about 180 bpm - try counting every right footfall for a minute, and if it's round about 90 then you are up there with the Kenyans  ;D




180 bpm sounds about right. Maybe even 200. I jog a mile and a half twice (an hour inbetween), twice a week. The last two weeks I was wearing steel toe capped boots and 3kg weights on each ankle. When I went back to my trainers today I had super light feet which I could throw all over the place. My legs not used to running is still my weakest link, but my lungs certainly got a bit of a workout, especially the last bit when I kept increasing the pace as I got nearer the finish and ran myself dizzy. Not eating breakfast probably never helped either.
I'll go back to just the trainers now to try increase my stride as well as my regular running distance and get used to my legs moving fast and taking the pounding. Then I'll go back to the weights again and try and do the same longer distance runs before the half marathon where I'll go back to my trainers and have the super light feet again. The fast cadence and short strides did feel more comfortable.


Quote
good luck with your half marathin

Cheers. I know I can do the distance. But it's just a matter of how much it will hurt. I'll aim for under 2 hours, but after today, I know I have some work to do yet.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 11 February, 2010, 10:17:43 pm
With the vff's I'm completely on the ball of the foot, slightly outside - everything comes from there, with the calf working like a spring and heel just dabbing the ground before the drive.  It feels faster over the ground (longer effective leg?) but I haven't timed it.
 

I tried landing on the ball of the foot instead of the heel tonight. I was thinking about it the other day and it seemed to make a lot of sense, especially for other reasons that I started running.
It felt more natural and I like it more. I've still got to get used to it.
I feel much slower, but that's no surprise to me. I'm just concentrating on landing on the ball of the foot for now until it becomes my default way of running. I think my technique is pretty poor, but it was my first go and I'm wearing big boots.
It also struck me as a bit camp, but that could be because my calves aren't up to big strides yet.


Quote
Nothing gives out, so much as I have an absurd calf pump and have to stop - it's purely conditioning, not biomechanics.


Yes, it feels like I'm starting from scratch again, but I'll perservere with it. It feels right, even though I'm not doing a very good job of it. I doubt I'll manage a sub 2 hour half marathon unless I pick it up quicker than I think I will, but if I can do the distance with this method then I'll be happy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 11 February, 2010, 11:01:17 pm
My guess is that with a cadence ~180+ you don't need to worry too much about where you land - you'll naturally be landing on your forefoot, beautifully positioned for a powerful transition to a solid push-off (I was going to say thrust, but you know what people are like  O:-))
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 12 February, 2010, 12:14:49 am
My guess is that with a cadence ~180+ you don't need to worry too much about where you land - you'll naturally be landing on your forefoot, beautifully positioned for a powerful transition to a solid push-off (I was going to say thrust, but you know what people are like  O:-))

My cadence was probably more like 120 tonight. Very short strides too. I had my steel toecapped boots on and I was concentrating on planting my forefoot.
I'm pretty sure that I was landing on my heel on the 10k. I landed on the heel a few times tonight. I know I could have done a faster cadence and ran faster if I just ran like I did on the 10k, but I'm trying to change my running style and don't want to switch my brain off and fall back to landing on the heel.
I'll up my cadence and hopefully my stride once I suss out how to land and am able to land on the forefoot without needing to think about it. Then I'll need my calves to get used to it too. I just need to practice.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 13 February, 2010, 09:03:55 pm
...and vff's are up to 2.5km.  Will consolidate this for a couple of runs as it was achey in shins and arches at the end.  Quick though, for me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 14 February, 2010, 08:28:16 pm
Started running in vff's.  Up to a whole kilometer now.  Calves like wood.  Progress to be anticipated..!

Hi Andy, what is the purpose? Is that to force you to run within and care for your body?

I may be showing my running age but the main ennemy for me is weight. If/when I was lighter I was healthier and able to run with proper racing shoes. Now I prefer running off road whenever I can or with fairly cushioned shoes and with pre and post stretching (I am over 80 kg at present, rather heavy for a runner; I always was but I was in the low 70 kg when I was competing).

As for landing on the ball I have seen a few light runners do it at my running club back in the days, though it is rare and more found among trackies. Is there evidence that it is better?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 14 February, 2010, 10:44:19 pm
Two aspects to "is there evidence it is better" ...

1) for all the "developments in running technology" trumpeted by the shoe companies, the indication is that running related injuires are pretty much as they were. in other words those expensive shoes are not making you any less prone to injury.

2) anecdotally and theoretically there is increasing inclination to the view that "more natural is better". partly fashion/trend stuff, but respected coaches like Joe Friel are suggesting that forefoot strike is both more efficient and less injurious.

The numbers are not in, jury not voted, but vff looks like a very interesting option.

FWIW I'm also playing with vff - 3 runs around 40 mins each so far, I think it's brilliant   ;D

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 14 February, 2010, 11:13:14 pm
While partly it's because I think the biomechanics are better (helped by testimonials from other runners) a lot of it is just that I'm a barefoot ape, I like feeling the ground with my toes and running barefoot makes me smile.

I mean really smile, the way a fresh baby carrot makes me smile, it's just happy feet.  Can't explain it any other way.

The freak flag is also pretty high in monkey shoes ;)

I'm a very heavy runner (98kg now, never under 90) and a martyr to both shin splints and now some ITB fun.  I noticed that with running shoes my foot landing is ugly, which is hard to explain, but the shoe is pretty intrusive.

You have to add a sprinkle of that Pirelli advert and a dash of extropian nonsense too - rather like a fixie, it's enhancement of human potential, but minimal enhancement.

Or something.

Ook! 8)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 14 February, 2010, 11:15:23 pm
Two aspects to "is there evidence it is better" ...

1) for all the "developments in running technology" trumpeted by the shoe companies, the indication is that running related injuires are pretty much as they were. in other words those expensive shoes are not making you any less prone to injury.

2) anecdotally and theoretically there is increasing inclination to the view that "more natural is better". partly fashion/trend stuff, but respected coaches like Joe Friel are suggesting that forefoot strike is both more efficient and less injurious.

The numbers are not in, jury not voted, but vff looks like a very interesting option.

FWIW I'm also playing with vff - 3 runs around 40 mins each so far, I think it's brilliant   ;D



I think that it also uses the inner core muscles more effectively, gives you better balance and more efficiency. I'm trying to change to landing on the ball of the foot to improve my inner core strength, improve my posture and translate it into cycling. I tried a different pedaling technique to ankling based on this today and I think I'm doing the right thing.
No evidence though, just me going by what I feel.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 15 February, 2010, 09:29:39 am
In my mind/imagination, right now, ball strike seems quite an impact and not "looking" very free flowing; unlike a medium to long stride with an efficient runner for example, and something, I must admit, I enjoy doing.

I get the message on shoe technology; though to be fair club and competitive runners tend to run with rather light shoes and would not benefit from such improvement. There are now many more runners on the other hand; many more occasional and heavier runners too. Maybe the technology cannot compensate for an un-healthy lifestyle?

I am not convinced this isn't another new commercially-interesting discovery is where I am getting at.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 15 February, 2010, 10:44:52 am
I'm going to crawl out of the woodwork here and say that I agree with the suspicions that Frenchie seems to have. 

I've only been running for a year or so and am no expert  but I have reached the stage where I can run reasonably comfortably, smoothly and efficiently in the 'normal' way which I see as landing on heels and immediately rolling onto forefoot before the impact gets a chance to jar my bones.  Landing on the ball of my foot as pose and modern barefoot techniques require would mean taking the impact with my Achilles tendon and doesn't ring true to me.  It's the difference between catching a heavy weight (your body) with an already tensed muscle and lifting it from the ground tensing your muscle as you lift, I know which I find easiest.

I'm sure there are runners who have impact problems with 'normal' running and by building up their Achilles tendon and using it as 'suspension' find they can run better.  There are also no doubt plenty of runners out there using this sort of technique who can run further and faster than me, I think that's just because they are better runners than me though.  I really doubt it's actually a 'better' way of running for most of us and there are many tales of Achilles injury in runners trying to adapt to it.  Time may prove me wrong but I suspect it's a trend and will never be more than a fringe method of running.

95% of the runners at the MK Half will be running 'normally' and while it might be a great to finish well using a non-conformist technique it could be a right downer to find yourself limping/walking the last few miles and kicking yourself for not taking the conservative approach.  I've run 7 halfs and buggered up 2 of them by starting too fast and hurting myself, those last 30 mins of crawling along watching everyone go past towards the end seem to go on forever  :(

That's my 2d worth but either way good luck and run well  :thumbsup:

Nik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 15 February, 2010, 10:58:05 am
... the 'normal' way which I see as landing on heels and immediately rolling onto forefoot before the impact gets a chance to jar my bones.  Landing on the ball of my foot as pose and modern barefoot techniques require would mean taking the impact with my Achilles tendon and doesn't ring true to me.
The POSE technique involves taking some weight on the heel too*; so just like your description, the load does spread over the entire foot.
The high cadence is also important - you are reducing peak force by using more impacts-per-minute. This is very hard to do with a heel strike. I can genuinely feel the difference in impact load when I switch styles.

Quote

I'm sure there are runners who have impact problems with 'normal' running and by building up their Achilles tendon and using it as 'suspension' find they can run better. 
Indeed. I only tried this nonsense because of an ankle problem** which was clearly exacerbated by the heel-strike loads. I had run for years before this using the "normal" way without problems.

So although I am persuaded by the theory, there are a billion variables, and it's still under evaluation for me.

*See also andy's description of his gait.
**I broke the ankle (and other things) in a car crash. The joint angles are now subtley different which may be the underlying cause.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 15 February, 2010, 11:01:12 am
Well, maybe, but I've been trying for nearly five years and I'm still a mighty bifter who thuds around.  That might well be because running is just one thing I do, rather than my be-all-and-end-all.  

I've never been as free-flowing as I am in the vff's, so I still think evolution might have a trick or two over the shoe guys.

Quote
There are now many more runners on the other hand; many more occasional and heavier runners too. Maybe the technology cannot compensate for an un-healthy lifestyle?

Careful with the conflation.  I'd be heavy at zero bodyfat.  Not *as* heavy, but still heavy.  If the technology cannot adequately serve its client market, the technology is wrong.

Edit to add: It's taken me six weeks to get able to cover distance in the vffs; I'll report back on how effective they are as actual Sunday-morning-5k daily-grind runners once I've actually done some of that!   ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 15 February, 2010, 01:24:38 pm
... the 'normal' way which I see as landing on heels and immediately rolling onto forefoot before the impact gets a chance to jar my bones.  Landing on the ball of my foot as pose and modern barefoot techniques require would mean taking the impact with my Achilles tendon and doesn't ring true to me.
The POSE technique involves taking some weight on the heel too*; so just like your description, the load does spread over the entire foot.
The high cadence is also important - you are reducing peak force by using more impacts-per-minute. This is very hard to do with a heel strike. I can genuinely feel the difference in impact load when I switch styles.


That I get (lower impact through high cadence) though I am still unsure about impact on the ankle articulation/tendon and even knee; as part of a training or recovery program. I am wondering how fast that can get one though? I am trying to picture track runners too who tend to land more flat fotted than mots roadies.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 15 February, 2010, 01:28:09 pm

The POSE technique involves taking some weight on the heel too*; so just like your description, the load does spread over the entire foot.
The high cadence is also important - you are reducing peak force by using more impacts-per-minute. This is very hard to do with a heel strike. I can genuinely feel the difference in impact load when I switch styles.

I expect what I read about pose was only one form of it (after all don't swimmers and the like also use a form of pose?) but I understood that the heel should never touch the ground.

.... a lot of it is just that I'm a barefoot ape, I like feeling the ground with my toes and running barefoot makes me smile.

This is what does appeal about the whole barefoot/natural running thing.  Sometimes it's more about how you do something than the result.  As you say like enjoying riding fixed even if you do end up a bit slower and hurt a bit more (as I do).


Nik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 15 February, 2010, 01:29:53 pm
Quote
There are now many more runners on the other hand; many more occasional and heavier runners too. Maybe the technology cannot compensate for an un-healthy lifestyle?

Careful with the conflation.  I'd be heavy at zero bodyfat.  Not *as* heavy, but still heavy.  If the technology cannot adequately serve its client market, the technology is wrong.


The point made is that with many more runners in the market, their difficulties with running may have nothing to do with the kit but but more with other parameters; which the shoe is not going to address per se. A more gentle form of exercise combined with an improved diet in a first instance, aimed at strengthening the body and improving the technique, would aid. Going into crazy running mode for the London marathon or the local 5K at short notice, even with the best of shoes, is not. This is a general comment; not one aimed to you.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 15 February, 2010, 01:36:43 pm

The POSE technique involves taking some weight on the heel too*; so just like your description, the load does spread over the entire foot.
The high cadence is also important - you are reducing peak force by using more impacts-per-minute. This is very hard to do with a heel strike. I can genuinely feel the difference in impact load when I switch styles.

I expect what I read about pose was only one form of it (after all don't swimmers and the like also use a form of pose?) but I understood that the heel should never touch the ground.

{swimming? - No idea mate!}

Well ... there do seem to be a few interpretations!

The best description I found, was to start off running on the spot,
then lean forward and just allow yourself to run with the same motion.

If you try running on the spot right now, you'll probably find your heel at least grazes the ground. (Although you can deliberately stop it if you try). Ball lands first, but then your weight pushes the rest of the foot down.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 15 February, 2010, 01:58:55 pm

The POSE technique involves taking some weight on the heel too*; so just like your description, the load does spread over the entire foot.
The high cadence is also important - you are reducing peak force by using more impacts-per-minute. This is very hard to do with a heel strike. I can genuinely feel the difference in impact load when I switch styles.

I expect what I read about pose was only one form of it (after all don't swimmers and the like also use a form of pose?) but I understood that the heel should never touch the ground.

{swimming? - No idea mate!}

(quick Google) Pose swimming, cycling, speed skating, walking, throwing, skiing - all courtesy of Dr Romanov who I understand invented the whole idea in Russia.

If you try running on the spot right now ....

There will be a lot of funny looks  :o

Nik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 18 February, 2010, 10:57:03 pm
In my mind/imagination, right now, ball strike seems quite an impact and not "looking" very free flowing; unlike a medium to long stride with an efficient runner for example, and something, I must admit, I enjoy doing.

I get the message on shoe technology; though to be fair club and competitive runners tend to run with rather light shoes and would not benefit from such improvement. There are now many more runners on the other hand; many more occasional and heavier runners too. Maybe the technology cannot compensate for an un-healthy lifestyle?

I am not convinced this isn't another new commercially-interesting discovery is where I am getting at.

The impact thing is interesting - if you look at how the impact is dissipated in heel-strike vs forefoot strike it seems obvious to me that forefoot strike is preferable ...

With forefoot strike you have a beautifully architected arch structure which absorbs and stores shock and recycles as elastic energy, comparable to doing squats where the stored energy on the down helps the rise.

With heel strike, you've got a fat pad on the heel.  That's it.

Try an experiment - go three step up some stairs and jump off landing on your forefoot  and springing forward.  Now do the same again landing on your heel.  Which rattles your teeth more?  Which gives you the best forward momentum?

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 18 February, 2010, 11:29:17 pm
Pose swimming?  Sounds like a spin on "press your buoy", which is the standard advice for novice front-crawl swimmers.  By concentrating on pushing you floaty chest down and then swimming downhill, your body assumes the correct high-hips position and your legs don't drag. 

But it's really just a physical mnemonic...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 19 February, 2010, 10:02:50 am
I've been buzzing all week because on Monday I ran up my first Monro (Scottish hills over 3000ft/914metres) for more than 15 years!

I was happily ticking them off, 3-7 hour days running in the hills, when my body pretty much fell apart, feet, ankles, back all knackered, maybe arthritis maybe not. Long rehab, most recently with achilles problems, so it was unbelievably fantastic to be out.

Not a biggie, Meall Cluaich, above Dalwhinnie, out and back 3km on Hydro Board track then steady up hill. Snow for top 300m vertical, new powder on old granular snow, quite gentle angles so no danger of avalanche or sliding over the edge! Unfortuantley clag at the top stopped any views

Brilliant!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 19 February, 2010, 02:09:07 pm
Not a biggie, Meall Cluaich,

That's a lot of contours [url Meall Chuaich, Drumochter - Route Map (http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/maps/map2_10cg.shtml) /url]  :o.  I'm only a bit jealous.

I also found snow to run in on top of my local Shotover hill this morning, only an 80m climb but still seems to be enough altitude to have stopped last night' fall melting.  Always amazes me I can run in 2 inches of snow in thin socks and trail shoes and not get cold feet.  The field at the bottom was up to my ankles in melt water.

I often land on my forefoot running down hill to prevent jarring and always run up steep hills on my forefoot (not much choice really).  I think it harder work on the calf and Achilles though and change back to my normal style as soon as I get back on the flat.  I think running writer Bob Glover describes this as 'changing gear'.  (And yes now you mention it I climb and descend the stairs on my forefoot without even thinking about it.)

Attempting an off-road hilly 20 miler and an off-road bit hilly marathon for the first time last year I was surprised to pass many apparently experienced runners walking the steeper hills right from the beginning.  They were maybe less surprised to overtake me as I walked up the slight inclines towards the end  :-[.  I believe they were sparing themselves the stress of straining up the hills on the forefoot so that their muscles would last the course.  Unless you get shin splints or joint trouble it's unlikely to be the bones that hurt first but I certainly get sore leg muscles and I intend to try and preserve them on this years longer runs.

Nik 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 19 February, 2010, 04:58:36 pm
Nice hill ride. I'd like to do one in the PD this Sunday, if possible.

Having just tried the forefoot landing, I certainly feel more of an impact on the knees and Achille's. With the heel landing I roll foward in motion (quickly) and spring away; a smoother transition on the flat. Yes, on hills I run more on the forefoot.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 19 February, 2010, 05:40:34 pm
Not a biggie, Meall Cluaich,

That's a lot of contours [url Meall Chuaich, Drumochter - Route Map (http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/maps/map2_10cg.shtml) /url]  :o.
What a great site:
DISCLAIMER: Walking can be dangerous


:P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 19 February, 2010, 06:20:03 pm
Not a biggie, Meall Cluaich,

That's a lot of contours [url Meall Chuaich, Drumochter - Route Map (http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/maps/map2_10cg.shtml) /url]  :o.
What a great site:
DISCLAIMER: Walking can be dangerous


:P

Agreed, brilliant site, thanks
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 22 February, 2010, 04:47:02 pm
30 mins at 10.5kph on the treadmill (1o incline). 477 kcal including warm up and cool down.

The fan in the gym was broken and so I was even sweatier than normal. Felt quite light headed after finishing. Peaked at 191bpm. DO NOT LIKE.

33 mins next time. May even nip to Maplin and buy a fan. Ugh.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 22 February, 2010, 07:55:11 pm
30 mins at 10.5kph on the treadmill
...

The fan in the gym was broken and so I was even sweatier than normal. Felt quite light headed after finishing. Peaked at 191bpm. DO NOT LIKE.
Couldn't you just slow down? :-?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 22 February, 2010, 08:27:05 pm
But how would he get a body like yours if he slows down?

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 22 February, 2010, 09:05:07 pm
Couldn't you just slow down? :-?

Because below 10.5kph is just slow.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 23 February, 2010, 10:40:46 am
30 mins at 10.5kph on the treadmill (1o incline). 477 kcal including warm up and cool down.

The fan in the gym was broken and so I was even sweatier than normal. Felt quite light headed after finishing. Peaked at 191bpm. DO NOT LIKE.

33 mins next time. May even nip to Maplin and buy a fan. Ugh.

Do the speeds on those treadmills reflect real running speeds?  (I know miles done on my turbo trainer at 'neutral' setting are noticeably slower than real miles on the road.)

Nik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 February, 2010, 11:44:51 am
Do the speeds on those treadmills reflect real running speeds?  (I know miles done on my turbo trainer at 'neutral' setting are noticeably slower than real miles on the road.)

Pretty much yes, it's very slightly easier on a treadmill as it is perfectly even and there's less thought involved in foot placement. The 1o incline makes up for that though.

It's not like a turbo on neutral setting, you're still running that distance. There aren't any resistance settings on a treadmill. The belt is moving at whatever speed you set it to. If you don't match your speed then you'll know about it reasonably quickly.

A treadmill is the running equivalent of doing all of your cycling on lovely smooth Welsh A-roads.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 23 February, 2010, 12:58:52 pm
I'm not entirely convinced of that, but a treadmill is definitely closer to the real thing than a turbo is.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 23 February, 2010, 01:17:00 pm
Yes thinking about it they're very different things, I suppose if so many k of belt has disappeared behind you then you must have run that far.  I suppose the momentum carrying you forward might be different.  And the incline - is that just a sort of technical paperback wedged under the front?

(Not that I'm particularly tempted - I think I'd rather run up a hill in the mud.)

Nik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 23 February, 2010, 01:35:39 pm
Fancy treadmills have a controllable incline, so you can do hill stuff (even less real, but still challenging) and so on.

It's got to be pretty close, because a friend started his running career off using just a treadmill for a 1:45 half-marathon. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 February, 2010, 01:54:24 pm
I'm not entirely convinced of that

Which bit? (because you go on to agree with me that it's "pretty close" in your next post)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 23 February, 2010, 02:05:20 pm
I'm vague on how to describe it, which is why I left it vague.  Certainly with hills it's obvious, you're not doing the work to lift a body against gravity, just running on a slope.  Otherwise... I don't have the brain for physics right now.  Bah.  :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 23 February, 2010, 02:37:34 pm
Right - I'm going to put my Physics degree on the line here ... !

I used to have the uneasy feeling that treadmills were doing some of the  work for you. But I _think_ I've convinced myself its the same as GB's perfect smooth Welsh A-road.

Once the belt is moving backward at 6mph, it must take the same effort to run "stationary" as it would to run along the same belt laid out along the floor.

[Standard simplifying assumptions:
You are not running at relativistic speeds.
Real running involves some wind-resistance - I assume this is why GB runs with a fan opposing his progress.]

The advantage (if any) with real-world running is you work those little 'balance' muscles more, and vary your stride pattern to gain <unquantifiable training benefit>. Plus of course you get used to crap weather!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 February, 2010, 02:48:36 pm
Oh I see.

The main reason for using the incline is because my physio advised not to run on the flat on a treadmill; either inclined slightly down or slightly up, and there's no way of those two I'm going to set it to be on a downward slope.

A running machine set to 10o incline is no different to running up a perfectly smooth 10o inclined slope. If you pick the right frame of reference (such as the trailing/planted foot at the end of the stride) you can show there's no difference at all to climbing a real slope. You're climbing with each stride (the falling foot is impacting the treadmill above the trailing foot) but sliding backwards and downwards whilst that foot is in contact with the 'ground'. The climbing is still done just as it is with running (whilst the other foot is sliding backwards). It's not just a case of twisting the hips and running at an angle. Just set the treadmill to 20o and see how long you can keep it up at a good speed.

But, of course, a perfectly smooth slope is not what you climb in the real world, so it's not the same as running up a 10o track let alone a 10o uneven slippery grassy hill.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 23 February, 2010, 02:50:28 pm
A running machine set to 10o incline is no different to running up a perfectly smooth 10o inclined slope.

No!

On the road you're lifting your body as well as this frame-of-reference stuff. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 February, 2010, 02:51:15 pm
I assume this is why GB runs with a fan opposing his progress.

No, it's because it gets bloody hot without it because running on the spot means you don't get the cooling effect of the 'wind' you generate.

It's a good point though, static running on a treadmill will be slightly easier as you don't encounter aerodyanmic drag but drag is relatively small at running speeds.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 23 February, 2010, 02:53:49 pm
I assume this is why GB runs with a fan opposing his progress.

No, it's because it gets bloody hot without it because running on the spot means you don't get the cooling effect of the 'wind' you generate.

It's a good point though, static running on a treadmill will be slightly easier as you don't encounter aerodyanmic drag but drag is relatively small at running speeds.
Bazinga!

------------------------------------
[I'm still thinking about the incline thing ... ]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 February, 2010, 03:02:20 pm
A running machine set to 10o incline is no different to running up a perfectly smooth 10o inclined slope.

No!

On the road you're lifting your body as well as this frame-of-reference stuff. 

Yes. Do the physics.

You're still lifting your body on a treadmill. Each subsequent footfall is the appropiate height higher and further forward than the previous one.

If it wasn't then it wouldn't be any harder running on a treadmill on an incline? Try running on one at minimum incline and then at maximum incline.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 23 February, 2010, 03:06:39 pm
A running machine set to 10o incline is no different to running up a perfectly smooth 10o inclined slope.

No!

On the road you're lifting your body as well as this frame-of-reference stuff. 

Yes. Do the physics.

You're still lifting your body on a treadmill. Each subsequent footfall is the appropiate height higher and further forward than the previous one.

If it wasn't then it wouldn't be any harder running on a treadmill on an incline? Try running on one at minimum incline and then at maximum incline.
Yes this is what I was going to say. However:
When running, you actually leave the ground for a short time. In that time the belt drops a few cm that you never need to climb. So I think the effective gradient is slightly less. God knows how big this effect is ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 23 February, 2010, 03:20:14 pm
It seems someone has already done the calculations for wind resistance and worked out how to compensate with the incline adjustment http://www.hillrunner.com/training/tmillchart.php (http://www.hillrunner.com/training/tmillchart.php)

So according to this at 1 degree Greenbank is ruining harder than the equivalent on (flat, smooth etc) road.

Slow down!

Nik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 23 February, 2010, 03:22:40 pm
ruining


That's running (strange typo)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 February, 2010, 03:36:06 pm
Yes this is what I was going to say. However:
When running, you actually leave the ground for a short time. In that time the belt drops a few cm that you never need to climb. So I think the effective gradient is slightly less. God knows how big this effect is ...

Hmm. Interesting.

To turn it around, I wonder if running machines take this into account and adjust the incline appropriately? I've never measured whether the an incline setting of 10o corresponds to a real incline of 10o.

I may have just found a use for the iPhone spirit level application. I may have to nip down to the running machine in the gym to test it out.

The average running stride length is about 2m, footfall on a treadmill is about 1m apart. So, in the absence of some proper thought, you'd need a real incline of 2o on the treadmill to mimic a 1o incline.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 23 February, 2010, 04:15:05 pm
Not sure why you are so opposed to running downhill?

Challenges different muscles (quads especially) but running slightly downhill can be a really good way to work on good form, and is hard work as well!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 February, 2010, 04:15:44 pm
OK, iPhone spirit level application used in anger for first time ever.

To be fair to the running machine I use it doesn't have degrees next to the incline, it's just an incline setting (but see below).

It goes up to 12 which, according to the spirit level app, was only 8o. (Intermediate incline settings matched proportionally.)

But, I think it does assume it is degrees because I remember it telling me I'd climbed 55m after my 30 minutes at 10.5kph at an incline setting of 1. (30mins at 10.5kph = 5.25km, plus a bit more for warm up and cool down, and 1% of that is ~55m).

So according to this at 1 degree Greenbank is ruining harder than the equivalent on (flat, smooth etc) road.

So a setting of 1 (which it thinks is 1o) is actually closer to 0.7o (8/12 = 0.6666...), combined with the fact that my footfalls are only about 1m apart (rather than nearer 2m apart on the actual belt) means that is more like 0.5o.

I should really be running at a setting of 2 (so 1.4o) which would be trimmed down to something under 1o of real climbing given 'short strides' and almost perfectly match where it should be on the table NikW posted to replicate the missing air resistance of running at ~6.5mph (10.5kph) which was somewhere between 0o and 1o of real incline.

This, of course, assumes that the chart hasn't already taken this into account.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 23 February, 2010, 04:23:44 pm
Anyone fancy a pint?



</Fast Show>
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 23 February, 2010, 04:33:46 pm
I like running; but running outside and running day dreaming... I have to admit to NOT doing any physics (mentally at least) when I run! I don't drinkl beer though...  :-[

(I do get terribly bored on a treadmill; the same on a turbo)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 23 February, 2010, 04:35:28 pm
Anyone fancy a pint?
</Fast Show>

No ta - think I'll just go for a run!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 23 February, 2010, 04:38:03 pm
I like running; but running outside and running day dreaming... I have to admit to NOT doing any physics (mentally at least) when I run! I don't drinkl beer though...  :-[

(I do get terribly bored on a treadmill; the same on a turbo)

If I'm lacking in enthusiasm to run I just have to look at turbo and out come the running shoes  ;D

Nik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 23 February, 2010, 04:39:58 pm
I like running; but running outside and running day dreaming... I have to admit to NOT doing any physics (mentally at least) when I run! I don't drinkl beer though...  :-[

(I do get terribly bored on a treadmill; the same on a turbo)

If I'm lacking in enthusiasm to run I just have to look at turbo and out come the running shoes  ;D


Yep. Even at night, in the wet, a good run with a Petzl and some music on does me good.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 23 February, 2010, 05:59:33 pm
my brane hurts
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 February, 2010, 06:00:32 pm
I can go into more detail if that is required?

;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 24 February, 2010, 02:18:34 pm
my brane hurts

Must be the beer... <sorry!>  :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on 24 February, 2010, 08:25:00 pm
Hardest bit for me with treadmills is keeping the brain from getting so bored it orders the rest of the body off the treadmill.  I did have my own (fairly powerful) treadmill for a couple of years and found it agonising to use, just charging along and going nowhere.  I'd far rather have the experience of the scenery moving past me, even if it's pitch dark and pouring with rain.  The only time I use them now is if I'm in some inner city hotel in a dodgy looking area.

The biggest downside for me is that there seems to be very little market for them second-hand.  After purchasing ours for about £700 several years ago, I struggled to sell it for more than a fraction of that.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 24 February, 2010, 08:31:38 pm
...  The only time I use them now is if I'm in some inner city hotel in a dodgy looking area.
+1
Quote
The biggest downside for me is that there seems to be very little market for them second-hand.  After purchasing ours for about £700 several years ago, I struggled to sell it for more than a fraction of that.
Gulp.

that's a lot of new running shoes (or bicycles!) and warm hats. I suspect decent rowers give a better return (but I've never looked into it properly - one for the other thread, probably ... )
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on 24 February, 2010, 08:39:24 pm
I hasten to add I didn't buy it for me, but after six months I was the only one who used it with any frequency...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 27 February, 2010, 10:08:10 am
So are any of you planning on running any events in 2010.  Having a few races planned is a good way of keeping the running on schedule but maybe that's where the cycling starts to become the cross training for the running (which it is for me) instead of the other way round.

I've got several events in the pipeline but my biggie for the year should be the Neolithic Marathon (http://newsite.wiltshirewildlifetrust.org.uk/WhatsOn/SarsenTrail/Route/WideTemplate.aspx) which took me just under 5 hrs as my 1st ever marathon last year and I hope to reduce to 4hrs 30m this year as my 2nd ever.

Nik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 27 February, 2010, 11:00:51 am
Triathlons for me, at least until I'm satisfied my knee is fully recovered.  That Neolithic looks fun... but I'm sour on marathon distance now!  Offroad yes.  Offroad is a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 27 February, 2010, 12:16:57 pm
Hoping to do a few duathlons.  Should have done a club one today but couldn't get the car off the street with the snow   :(

Meant I had a fabulous run in deepish solid snow on local trails instead - felt great, slow running becos' of teh conditions but really felt lively and strong.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 27 February, 2010, 01:01:12 pm
My grand target is an hour without the bad kind of pain - distance irrelevant!

If I reach this, and I can do 10k in that time, I might try an "official" 10k, as this is something N has considered (she'll whip my arse if we both enter). But I may have to accept that "distance" running is just beyond me these days, we'll see.

I'd love to do a mass-start marathon, but it's purely a dream at this stage.

(Might ride over to watch NikW suffer - I think it's on the way back from the BC400 ... hmmm ... )
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 27 February, 2010, 02:08:26 pm
Build up to running in to work in under an hour (11km and almost completely flat).

May enter a half marathon in September (in Windsor) and I'd aim for sub 2-hours.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 27 February, 2010, 03:46:31 pm
(Might ride over to watch NikW suffer - I think it's on the way back from the BC400 ... hmmm ... )

I think I can guarantee a quality suffering spectacle anywhere after the 20 mile point  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 27 February, 2010, 03:56:08 pm
My only ever multi-sport experience was The Boneshaker (http://www.bone-shaker.co.uk/) off-road duathlon which did what it says on the tin.  Might well be there again this year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 27 February, 2010, 04:08:42 pm
So are any of you planning on running any events in 2010. 

I am number 2556 in the Milton Keynes Half Marathon next weekend. :o
I ran a 10k in about 50 minutes about 3 weeks ago. That was bad enough. I'll try and take things easier in the half marathon though. I only want to finish and am not to fussed about time. I'm not really used to running so I'm using this to get used to it rather than test myself, but I'll probably end up going too hard.
I want to build up to something more extreme by the end of the year. I like the idea of the 3 day event that Andy had a go at last year. That'd be a good thing to work up to. Only to finish though, just for the fun of it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on 27 February, 2010, 09:38:38 pm
I've just discovered that after 5 years of trying I've managed to get into the Ben Nevis race.  I last ran it nearly 20 years ago when of course I was younger, faster, lighter, and probably better looking.

I'm trying to devise a plan that will not leave me too embarrassed by my 20-years younger self.  I should mix in a bit more recumbent riding as well as all the running up and down hill, 'bent riding seems to help my hill running.  I was also considering the Loch Ness Marathon but the training might not be compatible with running the Ben.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 28 February, 2010, 08:00:10 am
I've just discovered that after 5 years of trying I've managed to get into the Ben Nevis race.  I last ran it nearly 20 years ago when of course I was younger, faster, lighter, and probably better looking.

I'm trying to devise a plan that will not leave me too embarrassed by my 20-years younger self.  I should mix in a bit more recumbent riding as well as all the running up and down hill, 'bent riding seems to help my hill running.  I was also considering the Loch Ness Marathon but the training might not be compatible with running the Ben.

Richard Asquith writes about the Ben Nevis Race in 'Feet in The Clouds'.  4400 foot of climbing followed by the same back down - sounds like rather hard work!  I wouldn't worry though, should be easier now as they've bound to of worn a few feet off the top over the last 2 decades  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 01 March, 2010, 02:18:39 pm
My plan is to be fit enough to do some long sorties in the PD to do more of the runs on this list:
Home - Peak Trail Runner (http://peaktrailrunner.freehostia.com/mambo/)
I have done a few last year and really enjoyed myself, running typically 2.5 hours on those I did but as long at 3.5 hours on one run. Speed is not the issue over such terrain and length, but navigation, feeding and fun are the secret of the game.

I am retired form road racing "for good" I think. Too hard. I used to do halves in 79' to 84' 10 years ago. I did a local 5 Mi in 35' last year without specific training. Felt okay, but did I enjoy it? I am not sure.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: julianbramley on 01 March, 2010, 05:30:31 pm
Only because I was breathing down your neck all the way round!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 01 March, 2010, 09:30:25 pm
Only because I was breathing down your neck all the way round!

I didn't see hear you!  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 02 March, 2010, 06:51:02 am
So are any of you planning on running any events in 2010. 

I am number 2556 in the Milton Keynes Half Marathon next weekend. :o
I ran a 10k in about 50 minutes about 3 weeks ago. That was bad enough. I'll try and take things easier in the half marathon though. I only want to finish and am not to fussed about time. I'm not really used to running so I'm using this to get used to it rather than test myself, but I'll probably end up going too hard.
I want to build up to something more extreme by the end of the year. I like the idea of the 3 day event that Andy had a go at last year. That'd be a good thing to work up to. Only to finish though, just for the fun of it.

I ran the other, smaller, NSPCC Milton Keynes Half last year and really 'enjoyed' it.  Apart from all them cycle paths there was a park and a lake and stuff and the nearest thing to a hill was the climb up from path to road.  1:52 something which was a PB at the time, only 25 minutes behind the rest of our club.  It felt huge with 1200 odd runners - the March one is much bigger.

Your legs are going to hurt you know! 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 02 March, 2010, 11:25:15 am
I used to run regularly, but not since my son was born 4 years ago. I figured that commuting 14 miles each way would mean I'd be back to running 15km immediately. How wrong I was. I bailed at 6.5km. Two days later, I can still only just walk down the stairs. Bizarrely, my legs feel fine  on the bike.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 02 March, 2010, 11:28:06 am
I used to run regularly, but not since my son was born 4 years ago. I figured that commuting 14 miles each way would mean I'd be back to running 15km immediately. How wrong I was. I bailed at 6.5km. Two days later, I can still only just walk down the stairs. Bizarrely, my legs feel fine  on the bike.

It just goes to show how running and cycling use a considerably different set of muscles. My legs feel knackered after playing 5-a-side for an hour but I still manage to put in a fast 12km commute home each time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: border-rider on 02 March, 2010, 01:09:27 pm
Hill running and riding fixed seems to have a bit of an overlap.

I can still ride a bike with  legs tired from running, but leg braking hurts.  A lot.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on 02 March, 2010, 02:58:05 pm
My plan is to be fit enough to do some long sorties in the PD to do more of the runs on this list:
Home - Peak Trail Runner (http://peaktrailrunner.freehostia.com/mambo/)
I have done a few last year and really enjoyed myself, running typically 2.5 hours on those I did but as long at 3.5 hours on one run. Speed is not the issue over such terrain and length, but navigation, feeding and fun are the secret of the game.

I am retired form road racing "for good" I think. Too hard. I used to do halves in 79' to 84' 10 years ago. I did a local 5 Mi in 35' last year without specific training. Felt okay, but did I enjoy it? I am not sure.

Fell (or hill - depending where you are in the UK) is much more laid back than road racing though there's always the competitive in there somewhere.  It's much easier to relax at the back of the field and enjoy the scenery than is the case when you're pounding round some anonymous town centre.  I gave up road racing 20 years ago except for the odd particularly scenic run or for a specific purpose (eg chasing a 10 mile time).

I can also run for several hours and not feel too bad, but trying the same thing on a bike is much harder!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 02 March, 2010, 07:35:30 pm
First time I cycled back from a run race where I'd given it my best I found sitting on the bike really, really uncomfy -  like I imagine it would be after a few hard boots up the posterior.   I think the muscles I was relying on for padding were the very same I'd just wrecked running.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 02 March, 2010, 10:23:43 pm
In triathlon the bike to run transition can be, in my limited experience, quite painful. I have no experience of doing it the other way round; I used to run to and back from my club/track to warm up/down...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 03 March, 2010, 04:34:27 am

Your legs are going to hurt you know! 

Yup.
That's why I'm not woried about a time. I reckon I'm fit enought to get under 2 hours quite easily, but my legs aren't up to it. I'll just try to survive. There are supposed to be about 5000 runners, so I should bag some company at the back of the field.

Hill running and riding fixed seems to have a bit of an overlap.


I find running uphill much more comfortable than on the flat and even better than running downhill. On a 10k fun run about 5 years ago I was passing everyone on the uphills because it was easy, but everyone passed me on the downhill.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 03 March, 2010, 08:29:04 am
Lovely run in today. Still, dead quiet, clear winters dawn with a heavy frost. Great views off the hill up and down the Tay Estuary.

Used the HRM logger and was surprised at how high the pulse was (mostly in zone 4) as I didn't think I was trying that hard, but that could be the effect of blood donoring yesterday.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 03 March, 2010, 09:20:40 am
Running downhill is a fairly specific skill, you gotta practice it.  I don't have it... a friend who does is an absolute streak.  Cadence and a lack of fear seem to factor.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 03 March, 2010, 05:18:13 pm
Running downhill is a fairly specific skill, you gotta practice it.  I don't have it... a friend who does is an absolute streak.  Cadence and a lack of fear seem to factor.

Big strides too. Oh, and "black" nails!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 03 March, 2010, 05:28:05 pm
Big quads help too.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 03 March, 2010, 09:01:37 pm
I think it's also that the tendons in my legs are very tight too. I can run up stairs faster than I can run down them.
I should really do more some stretching.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 03 March, 2010, 10:23:33 pm
It's a dumb trick to offer advice without actually seeing you in action, but I'm going to do it anyway ...

There are two tricks to running downhill quickly - keep your weight forward and look well ahead .

Not rocket science and much easier to say than implement, becos' most people have a genuine and sensible reluctance to "let themselves go" feeling that they will be out of control and also that they quite want to see what they are putting their feet on next.

Tight tendons/muscles are unlikely to be a factor - most hill/fell runners I know are pretty inflexible!

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 03 March, 2010, 11:07:00 pm
It's a dumb trick to offer advice without actually seeing you in action, but I'm going to do it anyway ...

There are two tricks to running downhill quickly - keep your weight forward and look well ahead .

Not rocket science and much easier to say than implement, becos' most people have a genuine and sensible reluctance to "let themselves go" feeling that they will be out of control and also that they quite want to see what they are putting their feet on next.

Tight tendons/muscles are unlikely to be a factor - most hill/fell runners I know are pretty inflexible!



I might try that going down the stairs at work tomorrow, if I remember and am not carrying my coffee. I can always grab the rail if it goes tits up.
I do tend to lean back when I descend. I probably think I'm on my bike.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 04 March, 2010, 07:44:28 am
It's a dumb trick to offer advice without actually seeing you in action, but I'm going to do it anyway ...

There are two tricks to running downhill quickly - keep your weight forward and look well ahead .

Not rocket science and much easier to say than implement, becos' most people have a genuine and sensible reluctance to "let themselves go" feeling that they will be out of control and also that they quite want to see what they are putting their feet on next.

Tight tendons/muscles are unlikely to be a factor - most hill/fell runners I know are pretty inflexible!


I enjoy running downhill off-road, like Rich says don't resist your weight and keep your eyes open.

Shouldn't you have mentioned the bit about it being nigh on impossible to stop quickly at the bottom though Rich!  I do hope Teethgrinder has got a clear run at the bottom of his stairs  :o
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 04 March, 2010, 07:46:25 am
That "letting yourself go" bit is what I stick on.  Not least because as a bifter I genuinely worry that I'll accelerate beyond my ability to stop or keep up, and cartwheel down the hill shedding kit and teeth.

Practice practice practice... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 04 March, 2010, 08:22:18 am
Yeah, it's a valid worry, it's very easy to describe and much harder to implement

I try and stay light on my feet and not take long strides, but fastish cadence. The thing about looking forward helps as well - gives you advance warning of hazards so more notice to stop or adjust course.

The likes of Jack "falling stone" Maitland or Andy "speed kills" Styan look just manic on descents but they are very controlled - relaxed and concentrating like crazy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 05 March, 2010, 08:27:56 am
I would support Rich's comment to a point; I have always been told to run long strides, barely bouncing of the hill surface, looking ahead and planning one's course, and letting go. Hard to do. Resisting makes it more painful. I am bad at it and tend to do what Rich reports, fast, smaller strides; but I can't keep up with the fast guys.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 05 March, 2010, 08:50:25 am
I would support Rich's comment to a point; I have always been told to run long strides, barely bouncing of the hill surface, looking ahead and planning one's course, and letting go. Hard to do.

Agreed, this is close to perfect form, but only if you land midfoot with your weight moving forward, ie not braking.

If you overstride and land on your heel there a risk of it going away from you

(btw I consider myself a poor descender, too much of a chicken, but still managed top ten in British Championship short races - so it's very possible to train yourself up to a reasonable level)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 05 March, 2010, 11:28:57 am
Are we avoiding the Elephant (descending behind us) In The Room here?

Humans aren't very well designed for descending (monkeys climb down trees); running downhill seems like a massive increase in load on the joints, even done slowly. Not being competitive, and already suffering from running gently on the flat, I'm therefore inclined to descend very steadily indeed.

<\boring old fart>

p.s. a mate of mine left me for dead by running straight down this (in walking boots):
Maps of the world, street map search - powered by Multimap (http://www.multimap.com/s/OO8S0VZ0)
(descent SE off Great Gable - at least 300m down)

--------------------
Edit: Just remembered the business about eccentric* contractions etc.
Normal running:
you supply a small force to cushion your landing, then
a LARGE force to spring away.

Descending:
LARGE force to cushion each landing, then
fairly small force to spring away (cos gravity does all the work)

IIRC training your muscles will give them strength in the 1 direction you use most
i.e. until you've descended a lot, your muscles won't be strong in that kind of work. This may make you very injury-prone.

[*I've forgotten all the right jargon to use here :( ]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on 05 March, 2010, 03:10:45 pm
I'm a very cautious descender - usually lose a lot of places on the descent as a result.  The flipside is that on a race with a few ups and downs I can sometimes haul in those that passed me on the descent on the following ascent.  On more "gentle" descents with a secure surface I can let it rip but it does take a lot out of me.

My race tactics usually involve getting to the top as fast as possible and hoping I don't lose too many places on the way down.  If I may be briefly immodest, it worked quite well for me when I was young and fit.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 05 March, 2010, 06:21:09 pm
I tried leaning forward a bit on a descent. Definitely faster. :thumbsup:
A bit like riding fixed in a lowish gear when you're not used to it though. It did feel like I was chasing to keep up with myself.
I think I need to practice more.
I definitely need to toughen up my legs for the landing, so it' probably worth me getting a few hills in, or at least using the landscaping of Milton Keynes. Plenty of steep grassy banks for me to run up and down.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 06 March, 2010, 10:41:58 am
Humans aren't very well designed for descending (monkeys climb down trees); running downhill seems like a massive increase in load on the joints, even done slowly. Not being competitive, and already suffering from running gently on the flat, I'm therefore inclined to descend very steadily indeed.

I'm not convinced that humans are that well designed for running at all, animals that stuck to using all four limbs seem to be better at it.  I guess we had to learn to run on two legs to escape predators when we came down from the trees but now we are civilised we've realised it easier just to make them extinct instead.

By putting your weight forward running down hill and not resisting I think you actually lessen the impact as you are using the energy as momentum as you roll onto your midfoot and onwards towards the next step rather than absorbing the whole thud as you effectively stop between each footfall, probably by digging your heel in.  If my legs are tired or it's steep or slippery I'm usually too scared to let myself go and find I end up jolting myself about more by being cautious.  Obviously it ceases to be a sensible option if you fall over or crash into something.

The guy in red/black trousers (the winner?) at last years Cooper Hill Cheese Rolling (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOyQBSMeIhM) demonstrates quite a good style (though a lot of the others seem to manage with their feet hardly touching the ground).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 06 March, 2010, 11:06:35 am
Humans aren't very well designed for descending (monkeys climb down trees); running downhill seems like a massive increase in load on the joints, even done slowly. Not being competitive, and already suffering from running gently on the flat, I'm therefore inclined to descend very steadily indeed.

I'm not convinced that humans are that well designed for running at all, animals that stuck to using all four limbs seem to be better at it.  I guess we had to learn to run on two legs to escape predators when we came down from the trees but now we are civilised we've realised it easier just to make them extinct instead.
Crikey, that was a bit deep for me weekend elevenses! Sounds right though.


Quote
By putting your weight forward running down hill and not resisting I think you actually lessen the impact as you are using the energy as momentum as you roll onto your midfoot and onwards towards the next step rather than absorbing the whole thud as you effectively stop between each footfall, probably by digging your heel in.
NOW do you see why some of us are moving away from heel-strike? :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 06 March, 2010, 02:23:42 pm
NOW do you see why some of us are moving away from heel-strike? :)

I'll probably move away from that tomorrow on the half marathon. I'm not sure I'll make it otherwise, but I might try it if the heel strike starts hurting more than I think it needs to. I'm no Eddie Izzard.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 06 March, 2010, 07:31:16 pm
NOW do you see why some of us are moving away from heel-strike? :)

I'll probably move away from that tomorrow on the half marathon. I'm not sure I'll make it otherwise, but I might try it if the heel strike starts hurting more than I think it needs to. I'm no Eddie Izzard.


Most useful half-marathon survival tip I've read is:  'If you don't think you're running too slow you're almost certainly running too fast'.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 06 March, 2010, 08:21:33 pm
NOW do you see why some of us are moving away from heel-strike? :)

I'll probably move away from that tomorrow on the half marathon. I'm not sure I'll make it otherwise, but I might try it if the heel strike starts hurting more than I think it needs to. I'm no Eddie Izzard.


Most useful half-marathon survival tip I've read is:  'If you don't think you're running too slow you're almost certainly running too fast'.  :thumbsup:

I've always adapted that sort of approach. When I was running cross country at school, even before then at a 1500 meter run in infant school. I was always last at sprints. I could have probably ran faster, but I never saw much point in sprinting. But running to get somewhere made sense. I allready accepted that I was a loser at running, so I just plodded. But I was buggerred to find that I was well up the field in a distance run.
I went on to cross country runs at secondary school and did the same thing. Just take it slow and think about keeping the pace up. On one run I always remember my teacher telling me to get a move on about 100m into a 2 mile run. I was well down the field allready as everyone had dashed off. I ignored him and carried on going at my own pace. About half way around I was passing lots of people and I was in the top 5 at the finish.
I applied this to my cycling and cycled my first 100 miles in a day solo when I was 13. I really got the bug for cycling when I found that I could go a very long way on my bike and running fell by the wayside.

I'm still in two minds as to whether I'll try for a sub 2 hour or just run and try to enjoy it. Every mile is signed, so I'll do my maths homework and use my stopwatch for the first few miles and see whether I think I can do a sub 2 hour.
I will try and resign myself to not aiming for a 2 hour though. Just start nice and easy. It's too much too soon really anyway, but then again, I'm a sucker for a challenge. ???
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 07 March, 2010, 02:50:40 pm
By putting your weight forward running down hill and not resisting I think you actually lessen the impact as you are using the energy as momentum as you roll onto your midfoot and onwards towards the next step rather than absorbing the whole thud as you effectively stop between each footfall, probably by digging your heel in.
NOW do you see why some of us are moving away from heel-strike? :)

While I land on my heel I do try not to strike it (unless I'm stumbling down a 1 in 5 just trying to loose speed to survive).  The idea is to roll with the blow and use the momentum to move forward rather than absorbing it in you knee or whichever bit hurts which is a waste.  Maybe heel-roll would be a better term.

I've heard the movement described as an arc, like your feet are just 2 segments of a wheel rim and you roll from one to the next by which time the 1st one is back in front again.  You don't want to 'strike'.  I saw Peter Turnbull strike his back wheel against the ground once when he was trying not to run me other, doing what  I think is technically known as a 'stoppie'.  That bent his wheel as would be expected but that's not normal usage any more than striking your heel while running is.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on 07 March, 2010, 03:02:47 pm

I'm not convinced that humans are that well designed for running at all, animals that stuck to using all four limbs seem to be better at it.  I guess we had to learn to run on two legs to escape predators when we came down from the trees but now we are civilised we've realised it easier just to make them extinct instead.


You might like to read "Born to Run" by Christopher McDougall (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Born-Run-Ultra-running-Super-athlete-Tribe/dp/1861978235/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267974067&sr=8-2) (coming out in paperback next month).  He puts forward a very persuasive argument that humans are made to run, and that our bipedal approach gives us certain advantages over quadrupeds which allowed early man to be a very successful hunter and to range far and wide.  Expanding on this argument he goes on to show evidence that most runners can continue to function at the same sort of level with little relative decline into their sixties.  This cheered me up immensely!

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 07 March, 2010, 03:31:22 pm
So it's that stage in the marathon training when long runs take over most of my Sundays.  It's not that I run all day so much as the after effect of my legs and brain not being up to much.  I'm pretty certain I will manage the mile walk to the pub at 4:30 but right at the moment a little nap sounds more appealing.

A hilly (for Oxford) 15 mile multi-terrain this morning.  Plan was to try and do a 10:30 pace and not to take water or food with me though there is a shop at the 10 mile point so I had the option of buying something.  I'd treated myself to MP3 download of Atom Heart Mother which I hadn't heard for yonks and topped up the ipod with a load more Pink Floyd to last me 3 hours.   First 5 miles were too fast but more down than up, through South Park, along Mespot etc. (which means nothing to non-Oxonians).   Managed to ease off a bit through University Parks and feeling pretty ropey climbing up to Old Headington.

Crossed under Greenroad Roundabout then climbed through the CS Lewis Nature Reserve and up the hill to Shotover.  Halfway and not feeling bad, the hill had put me back on pace.  A bloke at Shotover Plain looked decidedly like a marshal and I had a nasty feeling I was going to be that chump who finds himself running the opposite way to a race, fortunately the front runners appeared from the woods and took the other track.

Down the bridleway towards Wheatley,finding enough enthusiasm to jump the 3 horsey hurdles that were set up there.  A look over to the right to see the Windmill at the top of the hill I'd be climbing next.  Through Wheatley then very gently up the hill not bothering with the shop stop.  Some bloke ran past me but I doubt he was going the distance I was.  Up the track by the Windmill then back on tarmac to descend halfway through Littleworth, feeling well stuffed as I turned into Butts Lane, the final off road climb back up to Shotover hurt.

I diverted through Shotover as I thought there might be kids races along the course of the earlier XC race.  Checked my watch at 13.1 miles to find 2hr 15m, made me wonder how Teethgrinder was getting on.  Legs were too stuffed to enjoy the final descent much and I realised I was a bit under distance and would need to add a small loop.  I was hoping the lights would be green at the Bypass crossing so I'd be obliged to stop and wait but no such luck.  That horrible thought that a marathon is actually 11 miles further than this hit me as plodded along the home run.  My lower leg muscles really hurt, like someone had given them a good beating with a broom handle or something, but all me bones and joints seemed to be fine.  A drink of water followed by a recovery drink then I flopped in a chair while Jane massaged the pain away. Average 10:27 pace but not done the easy way.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 07 March, 2010, 03:36:35 pm

I'm not convinced that humans are that well designed for running at all, animals that stuck to using all four limbs seem to be better at it.  I guess we had to learn to run on two legs to escape predators when we came down from the trees but now we are civilised we've realised it easier just to make them extinct instead.


You might like to read "Born to Run" by Christopher McDougall (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Born-Run-Ultra-running-Super-athlete-Tribe/dp/1861978235/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267974067&sr=8-2) (coming out in paperback next month).  He puts forward a very persuasive argument that humans are made to run, and that our bipedal approach gives us certain advantages over quadrupeds which allowed early man to be a very successful hunter and to range far and wide.  Expanding on this argument he goes on to show evidence that most runners can continue to function at the same sort of level with little relative decline into their sixties.  This cheered me up immensely!


I'll look out for that, I'm 47 and feel like I've only just started so could do with some good news  :thumbsup:

Ultra-running eh - now there's a thing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 07 March, 2010, 04:58:38 pm
That was jolly good fun. :D
I couldn't start too fast even if I wanted to. Too many bloomin runners in the way.
So a nice plod down hill at the start running in a big bunch on a closed dual carriageway. I did have a good chuckle at a car that had gone off the road and hit a lamp post. :demon: ;D
I seemed to be passing lots of people and it was a bit of speeding up quite a bit to passa small bunch then settling down again, remembering not to go bonkers.
First mile came up in about 8 minutes, so I was on for a sub 2 hour. (9.23mins is 2 hour pace) That cheered me up. :)
It all seemed to go swimmingly. Legs hurt a bit after the first mile, but as I go into it they felt OK again.
I checked my watch at every milepost and doing the maths. I knew that I was well on schedule for a sub 2 hour which kept me in good spirits and made me think that I could have a little rest or take it easy for a bit if I felt like it and still be in with a good chance.
It was good fun though. Just running along in the sunshine. I was probably a bit erratic. Fast on descents compared to those around me. I tried to let myself go but it did get me breathing.
My cadence was slower than the 10k run a few weeks ago, but so was my pace.
At 10 miles, I definitely noticed that I wasn't going quite as well as I was at the start, but wasn't having a bad time and I don't think I slowed down noticeably.
I just hung in comfortably and ticked off the last few miles.
An uphill finish in the last mile, then the 500m mark. I didn't feel like going just yet. I let go with 250m to go, not that it would make any difference to my time, but just because...
Passed a few more on the last 250m giving it some welly to cross the line with 1:44:?? on the clock.
Luverly jubbly. :thumbsup:
Think I'll go do a marathon next.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 07 March, 2010, 05:04:48 pm
Think I'll go do a marathon next.
I'd give it a couple of days, if i were you.

Must put my feet up - i've just walked to the shops and back ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 07 March, 2010, 07:34:41 pm
That was jolly good fun. :D

Excellent result - up in the first 25%  :thumbsup:

Which marathon then?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on 08 March, 2010, 08:24:30 am
You could do a lot worse than Loch Ness (http://www.lochnessmarathon.com/): scenic point to point race over closed or very quiet roads although the "rolling" terrain would mean a PB was out of the question.  A long way for many to travel, but worth it, IMHO
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 08 March, 2010, 02:41:59 pm
Well done TG, congrats.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 08 March, 2010, 04:14:58 pm
That was jolly good fun. :D

Passed a few more on the last 250m giving it some welly to cross the line with 1:44:?? on the clock.
Luverly jubbly. :thumbsup:
Think I'll go do a marathon next.

Well done. I could never bother about a marathon I have to say; it is hard enough to train for a fast half and getting in for a good marathon seemed a lot more difficult too. I would rather go run in the hills for something hard and long.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 08 March, 2010, 07:08:24 pm

Excellent result - up in the first 25%  :thumbsup:

Which marathon then?


Well, almost in the top 25%

I'm not sure which marathon. I think I'll do some more running first. I was glad to finish the half and I'm only doing it for fun.

The Loch Ness looks good, but I want to have one done before then. Plus it'll cost me a fair bit of time and money to get there. Something along those lines though.
I might even just cycle up to Snowdonia or the Peak District, take a map and just go running for a day.

I'll wait for my blister to heal and my legs to feel better first though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 08 March, 2010, 09:25:06 pm

Excellent result - up in the first 25%  :thumbsup:

Which marathon then?


Well, almost in the top 25%

Sorry, I should know better than attempt mental arithmetic  :-[  Top 27% which is a lot better than I manage, I celebrate extravagantly if I'm in the first half.

I'm not sure which marathon. I think I'll do some more running first. I was glad to finish the half and I'm only doing it for fun.

Frenchie's got a point that it's a lot of bother preparing for a marathon, even a slow one which is the best I'll ever manage.  I quite like the structure of having a plan though and building up the long runs even if they do hurt.  On the other hand I quite like getting on my bike and riding out to run a cheap, local, village 10k and I'm going to have to sacrifice that for a bit.  I do hope I continue enjoying the training as I've gone and entered Abingdon Marathon as well as the Neolithic so looks like I'll have to double peak this year (double peak = 2 small hills in my case).

If you've not found them yet there are race calenders and reviews at Runners World (http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/default.asp?sp=&v=1) and at Fetch (http://www.fetcheveryone.com/)  (you have to sign up but don't have to pay).  Fetch is more a running community than a business and is also great for logging/planning training.

Roman Trail 10 miler at Chedworth for me in 2 weeks, loved it last year, friendly trail run with stream to splash through and a hill etc and 10 miles isn't very far at the moment.  Then the Compton 20 in April which is really hilly and I shall strugle round, it offers the option of switching to the 40 miler at the 19.5 mile point - I most definitely won't be doing that  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on 08 March, 2010, 09:32:20 pm
I enjoy the marathon running experience but the training is a major turn-off for me.  And I like running, despite lurking on a cycling forum I run more miles per year than I ride (this year may be different, but because I'm riding a lot more in addition to my usual running).  All the long runs take up an enormous amount of time, not just the time doing them but the recovery afterwards.  Paradoxically, just going out and running on the hills for half a day seems far less onerous.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 08 March, 2010, 09:48:31 pm
I enjoy the marathon running experience but the training is a major turn-off for me.  And I like running, despite lurking on a cycling forum I run more miles per year than I ride (this year may be different, but because I'm riding a lot more in addition to my usual running).  All the long runs take up an enormous amount of time, not just the time doing them but the recovery afterwards.  Paradoxically, just going out and running on the hills for half a day seems far less onerous.

I think it makes quite a difference whether you are racing the marathon or just running it.  There seems to be an growing bunch of people just running marathons and ultras for the fun of it and not worrying about times much.  Sort of audax for runners.   Long Distance Walker Association events are apparently attracting increasing amounts of runners, the Neolithic Marathon makes a point on it's website about being a run and not a race (though you still get published times).  Still a long, long way for the likes of me though and if I'm honest about my one and only marathon to date that last few miles were neither a race nor fun!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 09 March, 2010, 10:04:22 am
I did a few LDWA events back in the day, really enjoyed them.  The walkers didn't seem to mind the runners, and the courses were demanding without being too brutal.  Nearly all off-road, mixture of track and open fell, so not the repetitive pounding you get with road marathons and runnable all the way.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 09 March, 2010, 10:07:59 am
I've got no excuse for not going for a run this afternoon. Remembered to bring everything I need and have no meetings to get in the way.

33 bloody minutes on a treadmill. Argh.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 09 March, 2010, 10:41:13 am
I've got no excuse for not going for a run this afternoon. Remembered to bring everything I need and have no meetings to get in the way.

33 bloody minutes on a treadmill. Argh.

but think how much better you will feel afterwards  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: border-rider on 09 March, 2010, 10:43:15 am
Well, I deferred my bike ride because the forecast was a bit crap.  And it's a glorious, cloudless sunny day.

A lunchtime run in the woods & hills beckons :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Chris S on 09 March, 2010, 10:45:02 am
33 bloody minutes on a treadmill. Argh.

Is this the work gym?

If you're lucky, your treadmill overlooks the canteen where you can watch the tottie getting their lunch.

If you're unlucky, you'll be facing a blank wall, or worse still - an LCD TV showing corporate inspirational videos.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 09 March, 2010, 10:52:40 am
33 bloody minutes on a treadmill. Argh.

Is this the work gym?

If you're lucky, your treadmill overlooks the canteen where you can watch the tottie getting their lunch.

If you're unlucky, you'll be facing a blank wall, or worse still - an LCD TV showing corporate inspirational videos.

Blank wall. Someone took down the sign that said:-

PLEASE WIPE
DOWN MACHINE
AFTER USE

The work gym is a windowless room in the basement about 10m x 5m, without aircon (although that's getting put in at the end of this week along with new machines).

Tottie? This is IT!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 09 March, 2010, 12:16:28 pm
I enjoy the marathon running experience but the training is a major turn-off for me.  And I like running, despite lurking on a cycling forum I run more miles per year than I ride (this year may be different, but because I'm riding a lot more in addition to my usual running).  All the long runs take up an enormous amount of time, not just the time doing them but the recovery afterwards.  Paradoxically, just going out and running on the hills for half a day seems far less onerous.

I think it makes quite a difference whether you are racing the marathon or just running it.  There seems to be an growing bunch of people just running marathons and ultras for the fun of it and not worrying about times much.  Sort of audax for runners.
<thinks ... > I've read a lot about marathon training. And I consider myself "above beginner" in the theory of 30hr+ bike rides. So inevitably I find myself joining the two together ...
There is no way that you need to ride further than a 100km as "training" for a 200km - you just need lots of training miles, then pace yourself on the day. Thousands of people have demonstrated this.

So I'm wondering whether, for those just wanting to finish a marathon, are those 16-20 mile Long Runs really necessary? Maybe you can do all the training on evenings and Sunday mornings, just like cyclists?


Of course there are differences between the 2 disciplines:
- runners often falter due to joint damage, which isn't (such) a big issue on the bike. (it's all about impact)
- I'm talking about longer duration events on the bike. Very few people could do a 24h continuous run.

Hmmm...
[There is no doubt that I am influenced by Mr Izzard's recent exploits, and we know how 1 anecdote != data ...]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 09 March, 2010, 12:22:49 pm
So I'm wondering whether, for those just wanting to finish a marathon, are those 16-20 mile Long Runs really necessary? Maybe you can do all the training on evenings and Sunday mornings, just like cyclists?

There's more than one marathon training plan that has you running no further than a half marathon during your training.

As you say, if you can run 13 miles and not feel broken afterwards then you should be able to finish a marathon even if it meets stumbling over the line with poo dribbling down your legs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 09 March, 2010, 12:27:40 pm
As you say, if you can run 13 miles and not feel broken afterwards then you should be able to finish a marathon even if it meets stumbling over the line with poo dribbling down your legs.
I think I remember your first 200k ...                    ;)

Quick google comes up with

The ‘Get You Round’ schedule

A beginner’s programme, mixing some walking with running, over 4-5 days a week.

The idea here is to get you fit enough to make it round the course, regardless of speed, so there’ll be very little fast work. You need to build up endurance and the schedule will help you to cut down on body weight.

   RW&rsquo;s Basic Marathon Schedules: Get You Round &ndash; Racing &ndash; Runner's World
 (http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/racing/rws-basic-marathon-schedules-get-you-round/108.html)
Longest run:
16-18M endurance run, taking drinks, walking 5 mins in every hour

---------------
EDIT: This is more like it! Suggests that 2_1/2 hours training run will get you to the finish of a 4:30 marathon run:
Marathon Training: Shorten the Long Run | Active.com (http://www.active.com/running/Articles/Marathon-Training--Shorten-the-Long-Run.htm)

I'm struggling to find any science for the benefits of training runs beyond 2 hours.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 09 March, 2010, 01:34:02 pm
As you say, if you can run 13 miles and not feel broken afterwards then you should be able to finish a marathon even if it meets stumbling over the line with poo dribbling down your legs.
Longest run:
16-18M endurance run, taking drinks, walking 5 mins in every hour

A lot of schedules say a maximum of 20 mile long runs and even that you do more damage than good exceeding 20 so 18 miles should do - 13 miles sounds a bit ambitious though.

I think it's different from cycling, the body tends to give way rather than the soul.  I've seen runners not just unable to continue but unable to move due to cramps/injury, it's not just a case of give up and get on the train.  Lots of St John's Ambulance presence at running races.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 09 March, 2010, 01:37:24 pm
True, true, but then that's the problem comparing apples and oranges like I did.

Lots of St John's Ambulance presence at running races.

Don't they get a lot of stick from the real St John Ambulance people trading on a misspelling of their name? ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 09 March, 2010, 03:32:40 pm
True, true, but then that's the problem comparing apples and oranges like I did.

Lots of St John's Ambulance presence at running races.

Don't they get a lot of stick from the real St John Ambulance people trading on a misspelling of their name? ;)

Oh and there was I thinking they belonged to St John!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 09 March, 2010, 05:29:59 pm
Right. 33 minute run done at a slight incline (see posts passim) and 10.5kph.

*waits for GTC to fire up*

Avg 180bpm, Max HR 191bpm. Bleurgh.

It will be helpful when the aircon is put in, and/or they give us a new fan (current one is broken). Running in warm still air is utterly horrible. I'm hoping it's a revelation when I start to run in to work. Not least something other than a blank wall to stare at (looking forward to running through Parsons Green especially).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 09 March, 2010, 07:36:42 pm
Frenchie's got a point that it's a lot of bother preparing for a marathon, even a slow one which is the best I'll ever manage. 

I reckon I could do a marathon now. I might just get under 4 hours. But I'd probably suffer on it and I don't really want to if I can help it.
I am one of the Audax style runners who just wants to do the distance. I'd rather do a scenic ultra distance run than a fast marathon. I did want to go under 2 hours for the half because I think it's a benchmark for a layman runner. If I do a normal road marathon then I'll definitely be trying to get under 4 hours. I thinkI could get under 3 if I trained properly, but I'm a cyclist and my aim for the year is the Miglia Italia 1000 mile ride in the Italian mountains on my fixer. Running is just a side show for me and will take second place.
Talking to Hummers about the Long Distance Walking Association was one of the big inspirations for me getting into this. I might have a go at one/some of their 100 milers one day. Not this year, I'd have to compromise my cycling to get in condition for one of those, but if and when I think I can hack it, I'll probably give it a go one day and hope to run or jog around rather than walk, if I'm capable.


Quote
If you've not found them yet there are race calenders and reviews at Runners World (http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/default.asp?sp=&v=1) and at Fetch (http://www.fetcheveryone.com/)  (you have to sign up but don't have to pay).  Fetch is more a running community than a business and is also great for logging/planning training.


Cheers. I'll have a look at those. Cycling will move to the fore now though. I need to get some miles in and get a bit fitter. I hope to use running to compliment my cycling. I might try and sneak a crafty marathon in the spring or summer, but special running events will be on hold now untill the cycling eases off in the autumn. My aim in running now is to up my regular running distance to get myself fit enough to do a comfortable sub 4 hour marathon or a fun little ultra marathon in preperation for the biggest event I think I can manage in the autumn.

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Roman Trail 10 miler at Chedworth for me in 2 weeks, loved it last year, friendly trail run with stream to splash through and a hill etc and 10 miles isn't very far at the moment.  Then the Compton 20 in April which is really hilly and I shall strugle round, it offers the option of switching to the 40 miler at the 19.5 mile point - I most definitely won't be doing that  :facepalm:

40 miles! Now you're talking. :thumbsup:
But allthough I might be able to get around it, it would take me some doing. I'll aim for a marathon next. One step at a time, it's only for fun.


My training has only comprised of doing 3 miles twice a week. Tuesdays, run a mile and a half, stop for an hour, then run home. Same on Thursdays. I did do about 2 and a half miles a few times. Sometimes I had 3kg on each ankle and my steel toecapped boots. That, and the 10k fun run was all I did.
I intend to increase the distance of my regular runs now. I think that a little bit every day is better than one big effort every now and then.
Besides, I wont do it if I stop enjoying it. I'd never use a treadmill. I go outside and put my radio or MP3 on. Milton Keynes is great for running too. Lots of parks, streams and lakes to run through/along/around on the Redways and miles of paths. Quite a few nice laydees running about too :D (Probably running away from me!)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 09 March, 2010, 09:24:33 pm

I reckon I could do a marathon now.


After doing that well in the MK Half on that tiny bit of training I wouldn't be that surprised if you went and ran a flattish marathon straight off treating MK as sufficient training.  Probably without the help of St John or the poo down the leg and proving whatever I just said up there ^ totally wrong.  You're a lot fitter and stronger than some of us here though so don't go setting us a bad example  ;)

I'm enjoying getting my monthly 200 in at the moment, I'm treating it as my rest week in my run training plan which seems to work.  I may ride a 300 but nothing longer than that this year, like you say you have to choose or compromise both sports (or work on the swimming and do an Ironman).


Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 09 March, 2010, 10:56:05 pm
or work on the swimming and do an Ironman.

I once had a very good triathlete talk to me about me doing an Ironman about 15 years ago.

It's mostly the swimming that puts me off.
a) I'm awful at swimming. In 1997 I tried to swim a length. I was very fit that year and cycling for several hundred miles a weekend was normal. I failed my first attempt because I stopped on the way. My second attempt was successfull. 20 minutes later my breathing was back to normal. Then I got told off advised by the lifegaurd not to go in the deep end.
I fell over in the sea when I was 5. If my dad never ran into the sea, swam after me and pulled me out I'd probably have died, I can certainly remember a lot of gasps and shocked faces as my dad carried me back to my mum. I've always been scared of water that is deeper than I can stand up in since then and doing my length was as much about overcoming fear as it was about swimming. I did stay at the side of the pool so I could grab the rail if I got too scared or tired, so I was very happy that I managed a length without touching the side. I think fear helped a bit though.
I started swimming in about 2001 and built myself up to doing 7 consecutive lengths in my local pool where I could stay in the shallow end for the whole length, but I found it a bit tedious. My swimming technique is very poor and I really am not motivated to improve on it.
b) I hear that triathlons are quite expensive compared to cycling and I'm a peasant who isn't keen on having little money for the important things (like cycling), so tries not to spend it on less important flights of fancy.

If I was going to do a triathlon, it would be an Ironman and nothing less shorter. Ultra distance is for me, it's just how I am.


Quote
I'm enjoying getting my monthly 200 in at the moment

My longest ride so far this year is about 90 miles. ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hummers on 15 March, 2010, 06:27:48 am
Interesting thread this.

I have made a very tentative step back into running, not for anything other than enjoyment, and have noted some Hummers related points:

1) I really miss running  - just didn't realise how much
2) Those muscles in the bits of my legs beneath the knee? You need them to be quite strong for running up hills and after 6 non-running years, mine are not strong any more
3) I am nowhere near as fit as I thought I was. You have to be fit for cross-country running over the Downs
4) The issue that started to develop on my right knee at the end of 2009 has eased up since I began running suggesting a cycling related muscle imbalance
5) My back is still borked and road running shakes the crap out of me

Watch this space as I have bought some trail related running shoes and intend to get back into this again.

Noting Teethgrinders comments about ultra-distance walking events, the LDWA run a series of such challenges, one such event being the yearly 100 miler which is held in a different part of the country every year. This year's is in Scotland (http://www.ldwa.org.uk/news/news_story.php?news_id=296).

Think of these as the Audax of the walking world (although technically a race) where you have 48 hours to cover 100 (quite often) hilly miles. I did the Dartmoor 100 in 1984 and from experience, that is where the comparison ends with Audax as these events are far tougher - physically and mentally - than any Audax event I have done. You really are out in the elements; there are no petrol stations or convenience stores to top up your bonk rations or provide shelter from the weather. Mind you, I was very fit then; jogged the first 25 miles in 5 hours and I got around the whole thing in a sleepless 33 hours and 20 minutes. The fastest participant got around in just over 20 hours. A bit broken at the end, I vowed never to do one of those again and have no desire to reverse that decision.

Someone who is still active in this field is Mr Arthur Vince (of Primrose Path fame) who runs this sort of event as well as taking part in them.

H
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 15 March, 2010, 09:20:58 am
The first I heard about LDWA 100 milers was from a few years ago from AUK Doug Aspinall.  At first he made it sound like a fun challenge but then he told me the bit about toenails turning black and falling off so I though I'd give it a miss   :sick:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 15 March, 2010, 12:41:33 pm
I recently browsed what seemed a good book about doing a 100-miler, but it was about £15, which put me off! The bits I read were VERY Audaxy (the author was far more walker than runner - bit like my Audax-style)

[google-fu fails me ... ]

Hummers, if you were a less sensitive petal, I would ask a slightly personal question at this point:
Were you a lot ... lighter in your running glory days?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 15 March, 2010, 06:51:27 pm
Think of these as the Audax of the walking world (although technically a race) where you have 48 hours to cover 100 (quite often) hilly miles. I did the Dartmoor 100 in 1984 and from experience, that is where the comparison ends with Audax as these events are far tougher - physically and mentally - than any Audax event I have done.

I think they would be the same as any Audax event if they were done along surfaced roads. But I think they are probably more like doing Audax distance rides on a mountain bike and off road. If you've ever been mountain biking you'll know how much harder it is to do the miles off road and usually with much more climbing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 15 March, 2010, 07:00:45 pm
... and that's before you take into account that running is generally slower than cycling too. :P

(If such an event was mostly on tarmac, I'd want my money back - I don't go walking for fun on roads.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 15 March, 2010, 07:36:45 pm
36min on the treadmill tomorrow. Bag packed so I can't forget anything (like shorts that fit or change of clothes). Ugh.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Manotea on 15 March, 2010, 11:37:41 pm
Inspired by Mr Izzard and devastated by recent poor performance on the bike, pro-tem I've switched to running to regain an exercise habit whilst I'm waiting for the weather to warm up. I'm not planning to run a Marathon every day for a month though, just my local 11km circuit, basically up and down the riverbanks between Chiswick and Hammersmith Bridges, and home. First time out was well over 1:30, now circa 1:15. I'll be happy to get it under an hour.

11km is more or less the same distance of the outer path of Richmond Park, four laps of which is a smidgeon more than a Marathon. I might have a crack at that in the summer. We shall see.

Currently on day 17 out of 17.

23/03 Chiswick to Putney today (16km). Still pretty slow.
21/03 Last two outings as single laps of Richmond Park. Starting to feel like I'm moving from shuffle to jog mode.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 16 March, 2010, 11:02:12 am
Inspired by Mr Izzard and devastated by recent poor performance on the bike, pro-tem I've switched to running to regain an exercise habit whilst I'm waiting for the weather to warm up. I'm not planning to run a Marathon every day for a month though, just my local 11km circuit, basically up and down the riverbanks between Chiswick and Hammersmith Bridge, and home. First time out was well over 1:30, now circa 1:15. I'll be happy to get it under an hour.

11km is more or less the distance of the outer path of Richmond Park, four laps of which is a smidgeon over the Marathon distance. I might have a crack at that in the summer. We shall see.

Currently on day 6 out of 6.

You might find, as I have, that running around a lot doesn't help the bike performance one iota. 

What it does do is provide the convenient justification "Well I've been mostly concentrating on my running lately" as you slide off the back of the bunch  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hummers on 16 March, 2010, 11:14:24 am
Quote from: mattc link=topic=58.msg571576#msg571576
Hummers, if you were a less sensitive petal, I would ask a slightly personal question at this point:
Were you a lot ... lighter in your running glory days?

4st lighter and 26 years younger.

I have a picture somewhere that begs the question "where did that young man go". Someone rather wittily once pointed out "you ate him, Hummers".

On saying that, through my last running foray I managed to get down to just over 14st for the Great Traverse of the Cuillin in one hit back in 1999. This is another mental and physical feat that for me, will not be repeated.

I think they would be the same as any Audax event if they were done along surfaced roads. But I think they are probably more like doing Audax distance rides on a mountain bike and off road. If you've ever been mountain biking you'll know how much harder it is to do the miles off road and usually with much more climbing.

I guess you'll have to find that out for yourself.

All I know is that there is no freewheel for your legs when you are on foot and whilst I am sure you are right about covering Audax distances off road being harder, the Dartmoor 100 was very physically punishing. I could hardly walk at all the day after and it was over a week before I could walk properly again - despite being a very fit and regularly used to covering distances of 50 miles over rough terrain in around or under 12 hours.

Then again, as with all things, the first of anything is either the first of many or the first and last. My mate Tom took almost the whole 48 hours to complete the same event but went on to do over 10 consecutive 100s, some harder than the Dartmoor 100 by quite a margin (Snowdonia 100 - 30000ft of ascent). In the end, he didn't bother to train for them because running, walking and cycling everywhere became a pivotal part of his life so 'training' meant nothing. He stopped the 100s in the end after a series of injuries led to him questioning why he was doing them - and not liking the answers.

I am very happy with the Audax stuff now as it offers a reasonable challenge, is more sociable, keeps me fit and I get to see some great countryside without killing or injuring myself in the process.

H
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 16 March, 2010, 11:27:01 am
You might find, as I have, that running around a lot doesn't help the bike performance one iota. 

Aye, save for one angle: running is great for weight loss, and being lighter is great on the bike.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 16 March, 2010, 11:57:42 am
Noting Teethgrinders comments about ultra-distance walking events, the LDWA run a series of such challenges, one such event being the yearly 100 miler which is held in a different part of the country every year. This year's is in Scotland (http://www.ldwa.org.uk/news/news_story.php?news_id=296).

... which sold out all 530 places in February.

So it's about as popular as Audax (i.e. if you make a very rough comparison to 600+ entries). Nutters ...

Found the Julie Welch 100-miler book:

         Long-distance walking: Iron in the soles -
            Features, Health & Families - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/longdistance-walking-iron-in-the-soles-1805596.html)
It's £17 !
(via the LDWA site. Which is bloody annoying on a small screen - reminds me why I like aukweb.net ! Oh, and the Audax calendar is much better. )
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hummers on 16 March, 2010, 12:22:16 pm
... and being lighter is great on the bike.

Yes and no: quicker going up, slower going down.

Not much difference on flat/rolling countryside though.

Other than your shorts fit you better.

H
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Manotea on 16 March, 2010, 09:14:44 pm
Noting Teethgrinders comments about ultra-distance walking events, the LDWA run a series of such challenges, one such event being the yearly 100 miler which is held in a different part of the country every year. This year's is in Scotland (http://www.ldwa.org.uk/news/news_story.php?news_id=296).

... which sold out all 530 places in February.

So it's about as popular as Audax (i.e. if you make a very rough comparison to 600+ entries). Nutters ...

Found the Julie Welch 100-miler book:

         Long-distance walking: Iron in the soles -
            Features, Health & Families - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/longdistance-walking-iron-in-the-soles-1805596.html)
It's £17 !
(via the LDWA site. Which is bloody annoying on a small screen - reminds me why I like aukweb.net ! Oh, and the Audax calendar is much better. )

Donchajustlove the comments. I was a bit shocked myself...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 16 March, 2010, 10:28:04 pm
I think they would be the same as any Audax event if they were done along surfaced roads. But I think they are probably more like doing Audax distance rides on a mountain bike and off road. If you've ever been mountain biking you'll know how much harder it is to do the miles off road and usually with much more climbing.

I guess you'll have to find that out for yourself.

All I know is that there is no freewheel for your legs when you are on foot and whilst I am sure you are right about covering Audax distances off road being harder,

Riding a mountain bike, even on the road is tough going. I cycled to Dolgellau in 2006 on my mountain bike on a Bank Holiday weekend, to meet a friend to go mountain biking at Coed-y-Brenin. It was about 170 miles which would have been an easy 10-12 hour ride on the road bike. It was a long slog on the mountain bike and I was still very tired from it the day after when I was riding with my friend, but because my friend had his girlfriend with him and she was riding with us I didn't need to be fresh, but I still had to spend a while in the cafe reviving myself while they rode one of the shorter trails.
Then I cycled home on the Monday. I realised that it would have been faster and much easier for me to ride up on the road bike and just walk around the mountain bike trails, then ride home again.
Add to that that off roading is harder still than road riding because of the rough surfaces and extra hilliness. I know that I'd not find it easy to cycle 600km in a weekend off road. Even just a 100 mile ride without much climbing is quite a tough day on the mountain bike when I'm fit.

But yes, I'll have to suck it and see. I'm not sure I'll be able to manage a 100 miler this year though.


Quote
My mate Tom took almost the whole 48 hours to complete the same event but went on to do over 10 consecutive 100s, some harder than the Dartmoor 100 by quite a margin (Snowdonia 100 - 30000ft of ascent). In the end, he didn't bother to train for them because running, walking and cycling everywhere became a pivotal part of his life so 'training' meant nothing. He stopped the 100s in the end after a series of injuries led to him questioning why he was doing them - and not liking the answers.

That's the thing. It's what I tried to do in 2007. Just start easy early in the year and get myself doing the distance and naturally get fitter. The toughest rides, or at lest, the ones that hurt the most were the ones from January to March. I was increasing the distance of the rides then, I wasn't up to speed and the weather was usually very tough. Lots of strong headwinds and often into driving rain and dark for most of the rides. I remember reading about people struggling to ride into those winds for 100k where I was riding into them for 400. But once the weather improved (a bit, it was a pretty crap year for weather) and I recovered, it just became business as usual. This meant that I could recover more and get even stronger so that I was doing mega miles and still sometimes in bad conditions, but much more easily. These rides I was doing mid-summer quite comfartably would have been impossible for me in the early season.

It's sort of why I'm giving this a go too. You say you're not anything like as fit as you used to be, but you were going very well on Porkers and Brimstone last year. You can get up the hills fast for a big chap!
I'm wondering whether it's that you are a lot fitter than you think you are because you've just got into the swing of things or if this long distance walking really is all that tough. (I reckon that walking or running is much tougher than cycling because of the impact issues, but fitness wise about the same. If anyone tells me that travelling by foot needs more cardio fitness than cycling then I'll tell them to cycle faster.) After my half marathon (even if it was a very fast course) I'm starting to think it is the former.
But I want to find out for myself and it's something that appeals to me, so I'll give it a proper go. I wont suffer for doing it. If I stop enjoying it or start getting too damaged from it, then I'll stop. It's just a side show to my cycling which will always come first.



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I am very happy with the Audax stuff now as it offers a reasonable challenge, is more sociable, keeps me fit and I get to see some great countryside without killing or injuring myself in the process.

That's good, but be carefull, you can do too much of that Audax game. ;) ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hummers on 16 March, 2010, 11:38:50 pm
But yes, I'll have to suck it and see. I'm not sure I'll be able to manage a 100 miler this year though.

I have seen what you are capable of Mr Teethgrinder and have no doubt that you have the mettle to do this sort of event and will enjoy it immensely.

Best to get the inside track for 2011 as places go quickly and I think you still have to complete a recognised long distance event over 50 miles (in one hit) to be qualify for entry. I suggest you make contact with Arthur Vince on this score as I expect he's up on this stuff.

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You say you're not anything like as fit as you used to be, but you were going very well on Porkers and Brimstone last year. You can get up the hills fast for a big chap!

OK, you asked for it:

Climbing and fell running Hummers of yesteryear (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d96/HummersOriginal/hummersphone-1.jpg)

vs

Cycling Hummers (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d96/HummersOriginal/Titanic.jpg)
 
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But I want to find out for myself and it's something that appeals to me, so I'll give it a proper go. I wont suffer for doing it. If I stop enjoying it or start getting too damaged from it, then I'll stop. It's just a side show to my cycling which will always come first.


That is what they all say.......  :demon:

H
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 16 March, 2010, 11:58:23 pm

OK, you asked for it:

Climbing and fell running Hummers of yesteryear (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d96/HummersOriginal/hummersphone-1.jpg)

vs

Cycling Hummers (http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d96/HummersOriginal/Titanic.jpg)
 

All I can tell from those photos is that you've got a belly and you wear even less clothing now. Probably a bit more hairy too.


Quote
Best to get the inside track for 2011 as places go quickly and I think you still have to complete a recognised long distance event over 50 miles (in one hit) to be qualify for entry. I suggest you make contact with Arthur Vince on this score as I expect he's up on this stuff.

That sounds like a plan. I reckon I could manage a 50 miler if I get my arse in gear and if I liked it I could go for the 100. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hummers on 17 March, 2010, 09:02:19 am
Here is a classic event that might still be open for entries this year:

Dorset Doddle (http://www.btinternet.com/~hardy.annual/doddle.htm)

The fact that it is in Dorset, is referred to as a 'Doddle'  and follows the undulations of the coast should give you an idea what to expect.  :demon:

I have not done the event itself but used the route for training and for many years "the Dorset training day" would appear ominously in the calendar around Easter.

H
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 17 March, 2010, 01:23:06 pm
Here is a classic event that might still be open for entries this year:

Dorset Doddle (http://www.btinternet.com/~hardy.annual/doddle.htm)

The fact that it is in Dorset, is referred to as a 'Doddle'  and follows the undulations of the coast should give you an idea what to expect.  :demon:

I have not done the event itself but used the route for training and for many years "the Dorset training day" would appear ominously in the calendar around Easter.

H
I remember reading about this one last year in Anna Finn's blog (http://annakatfinn.blogspot.com/2009/08/dorset-doddle.html), she gives the impression late entries may well be possible.  I'm definitely not going to attempt this this year

Nik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: geraldc on 17 March, 2010, 02:01:24 pm
I've got a month to the Brighton Marathon. It's going to prove interesting.  Not looking for a fast time, just looking to finish.

I'm loving my GPS/HRM Decathlon Keymaze 700, it makes running far more interesting. Downloading the route into googlemaps, and then looking at my heart rate shoot off at the slightest exertion is fascinating.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 17 March, 2010, 04:41:26 pm
36min on the treadmill tomorrow. Bag packed so I can't forget anything (like shorts that fit or change of clothes). Ugh.

Too busy yesterday but found time today. Least horrible I've felt so far, probably something to do with the new fan blowing cold air on my back the entire time and nice new equipment in the gym.

36 minutes at 6.6mph. HRavg of 178bpm and max at 186bpm. Much nicer.

Bumped into someone in the gym and got chatting about doing a marathon. Whilst warming up he was talking about entering one next year as he's finding running quite easy, he thinks he can do a 3.5 hour marathon (impressive as he didn't look in the best shape).

All was explained when he'd finished his warm up (I was already running by this point) and I watched as he slowly increased the speed towards 8mph and looked panicked. The old machines worked in kph. His easy 3h30 marathon was now a 3h30 nightmare or a 5h15m slog. He lasted 3 minutes at 8mph before stopping and mumbling something about "probably not over this cold I've had".

*snigger*
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 17 March, 2010, 05:33:54 pm
This morning's run to work. It is easy to spot the gradient changes.
Click image for notes. Spot the steps to the observatory!
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/4441302344_d07f56dc90_o.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidmam/4441302344/)

red lines are zone 4 boundaries.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 17 March, 2010, 07:43:41 pm
Here is a classic event that might still be open for entries this year:

Dorset Doddle (http://www.btinternet.com/~hardy.annual/doddle.htm)

The fact that it is in Dorset, is referred to as a 'Doddle'  and follows the undulations of the coast should give you an idea what to expect.  :demon:

I have not done the event itself but used the route for training and for many years "the Dorset training day" would appear ominously in the calendar around Easter.

H

If I wasn't in Italy, then that would be a good one for me to try.
I've ridden enough Wessex Audax to know that the Dorset Coast isn't a doddle.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hummers on 18 March, 2010, 12:39:06 am
LDWA events calendar here (http://www.ldwa.org.uk/challenge_events/events_list.php?list_option=N&list_type=F).

There is always the Dartmoor Oerambulation,

H


Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on 18 March, 2010, 10:48:21 am
Actually those LDWA events look interesting, though there's precious few in Scotland.  The Lochalsh 30 Dirty Challenge (nearest to me) looks quite attractive, if expensive by hill running standards.

What are participants' views of runners?  I'd prefer to run rather than walk because I'm an impatient kind of guy   ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 18 March, 2010, 11:04:38 am
those LDWA events look  expensive
There's always one!            ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 18 March, 2010, 01:10:47 pm
My limited experience of LDWA events is that runners are usually a not large proportion of teh total entry and are well tolerated - some LDWA stalwarts are runners.

Usually a good indication if they have a separate start time for runners.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 18 March, 2010, 03:17:47 pm
I seem to be on some kind of exercise rollercoaster this year. Today's run:
Good news - 36min* running time (+some walking), no pain in muscles, joints or tendons
Bad news - I have my first running blister ever!

I could feel this coming on shorter runs this year, but I hoped the flesh was simply toughening up. My guess is that the new NB shoes are not exactly the same shape as the model they replace. This - combined with front-foot landings - has rubbed the skin on the inner edge of the ball. They do feel kinda tight in that area, right foot only.

I think I'll try my old shoes for a while, and get some new socks to replace the thread-bare pair. Maybe try some non-ortho insoles.

(What's the best short-term treatment for blisters?!?)

*Probably a PB for 2 years. I think.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 18 March, 2010, 06:08:22 pm
I seem to be on some kind of exercise rollercoaster this year. Today's run:
Good news - 36min* running time (+some walking), no pain in muscles, joints or tendons
Bad news - I have my first running blister ever!

I could feel this coming on shorter runs this year, but I hoped the flesh was simply toughening up. My guess is that the new NB shoes are not exactly the same shape as the model they replace. This - combined with front-foot landings - has rubbed the skin on the inner edge of the ball. They do feel kinda tight in that area, right foot only.

I think I'll try my old shoes for a while, and get some new socks to replace the thread-bare pair. Maybe try some non-ortho insoles.

(What's the best short-term treatment for blisters?!?)

*Probably a PB for 2 years. I think.
Well done!  36min can't be far off 5k.  Free entry 5k event every Saturday in Reading (http://www.parkrun.org.uk/reading/) I see, ride to the start makes a good warm-up  :thumbsup:

I find it helps to alternate old and new shoes for a while till the old ones are truly dead and the new feel comfy.  If they feel tight shouldn't you just loosen the laces near the toe a bit?

Many committed runners own several pairs of socks and stop wearing the old ones well before their toes poke out the end  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 18 March, 2010, 06:37:34 pm
LDWA events calendar here (http://www.ldwa.org.uk/challenge_events/events_list.php?list_option=N&list_type=F).

There is always the Dartmoor Oerambulation,

H



This one looks suitably gnarly and something I might be able to build up to (http://www.ldwa.org.uk/challenge_events/show_event.php?list_option=D&list_type=F&event_id=6427)

I never noticed the Dartmoor event allthough I never looked closely.
The one I linked to, I can probably get to and from with just one train and within 2 hours. Dartmoor would need a lot of travel time to and from the event.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hummers on 18 March, 2010, 07:27:37 pm
I never noticed the Dartmoor event allthough I never looked closely.
The one I linked to, I can probably get to and from with just one train and within 2 hours. Dartmoor would need a lot of travel time to and from the event.

Sorry, I meant the Dartmoor Perambulation (http://www.ian.kirkpatrick2.btinternet.co.uk/page3.htm) and it is not an LDWA event - think of it more as a perm.

A cracking walk nonetheless and it is worth meeting the person who set this up, Ian Kirkpatrick*, who is quite a character.

H

*Mention my name to Mrs Kirkpatrick at your peril.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Manotea on 19 March, 2010, 11:07:20 pm
Here is a classic event that might still be open for entries this year:

Dorset Doddle (http://www.btinternet.com/~hardy.annual/doddle.htm)

The fact that it is in Dorset, is referred to as a 'Doddle'  and follows the undulations of the coast should give you an idea what to expect.  :demon:

I have not done the event itself but used the route for training and for many years "the Dorset training day" would appear ominously in the calendar around Easter.

H

Still open for entries. Apparently.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 20 March, 2010, 08:22:14 pm
And you're welcome to it.

Took the fivefingers onto the treadmill for the first time today, to practice speedwork.  All of a sudden the whole "increase cadence, shorten stride" thing -- and the move from a long forward stride component and lots of thigh power to a much shorter forward component and more butt power -- started to come together. 

Because legs aren't over-extending to near lock, it's knee-benign too. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 20 March, 2010, 08:43:24 pm
And you're welcome to it.

Took the fivefingers onto the treadmill for the first time today, to practice speedwork.  All of a sudden the whole "increase cadence, shorten stride" thing -- and the move from a long forward stride component and lots of thigh power to a much shorter forward component and more butt power -- started to come together. 

Because legs aren't over-extending to near lock, it's knee-benign too. :thumbsup:

And you're welcome to the treadmill. :P :D

The reason I only take little strides is because I don't have strong running legs that can handle giant steps (with apologies to Sting)
Big strides are for the strong and fast runners doing up to marathon distance, I would guess.
But for ultra distance, or weaklings like me, then the technique becomes closer to walking, which is probably a good way of describing my running; walking fast forward with a bit of a bounce.
Probably much better for a heavy dude too. I reckon you'll feel more comfortable if it is for you, so I'll leave you to be the judge.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 20 March, 2010, 08:47:46 pm
Sorry, I meant the Dartmoor Perambulation (http://www.ian.kirkpatrick2.btinternet.co.uk/page3.htm) and it is not an LDWA event - think of it more as a perm.

A cracking walk nonetheless and it is worth meeting the person who set this up, Ian Kirkpatrick*, who is quite a character.

H

*Mention my name to Mrs Kirkpatrick at your peril.


Now that does look mighty tempting.
I see that some geezer called Mark Hummerstone was the 4th person to complete this. Anyone you know I wonder?
It doesn't seem to say how far it is. If there's no time limit, then that could be a goer for me. I like the "permanent" style of it, so I can do it when it's best for me.
Think I'll need to research before I run though, I think this is something that needs respect. Especially from a numpty like me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hummers on 20 March, 2010, 10:52:20 pm
It's 48 miles and you can take as long as you like.

I've taken 5 days to do it and I've also done it in just over 12 hours.

I think the record is 10 hours but he ran the whole thing.

H
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 21 March, 2010, 02:52:18 pm
I ran the Roman Trail 10 miler today.  A beautiful day and great organisation but I was crap.  I hoped for 1:25 and got nearer 1:35, it's hillier than I remember but I was at least 5 mins faster last year  ???

My legs feel like they've hardly been used so I guess it was lack of of energy holding me back.  Maybe it's because I've had a bit of a cold or maybe because I ran out of beer last night and had to drink red wine instead.

Still I enjoyed squelching through all that mud and splashing through the River Coln  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Manotea on 21 March, 2010, 09:21:37 pm
And you're welcome to it.

I think I'm going to go I've gone for it. £6 entry for non LDWA plus £6 for the coach from Swanage to Weymouth in the morning. (The Doddle is from Weymouth to Swanage). Vague plan to ride down from London on Saturday, camp or stay at the Swanage YHA, run round (ha!) then train home Sunday evening. TBD.

Took the fivefingers onto the treadmill for the first time today, to practice speedwork.  All of a sudden the whole "increase cadence, shorten stride" thing -- and the move from a long forward stride component and lots of thigh power to a much shorter forward component and more butt power -- started to come together.  

Because legs aren't over-extending to near lock, it's knee-benign too. :thumbsup:

Running in Richmond Park today, I was overtaken by a chap running barefoot. He was mainly on the grass though he spent some time on the path which alternates between sandy gravel and sand & pointy stones.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 22 March, 2010, 05:55:03 pm
And you're welcome to it.

I think I'm going to go I've gone for it. £6 entry for non LDWA plus £6 for the coach from Swanage to Weymouth in the morning. (The Doddle is from Weymouth to Swanage). Vague plan to ride down from London on Saturday, camp or stay at the Swanage YHA, run round (ha!) then train home Sunday evening. TBD.

You are a very brave man or something like that  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hummers on 23 March, 2010, 03:36:16 pm

I think I'm going to go I've gone for it. £6 entry for non LDWA plus £6 for the coach from Swanage to Weymouth in the morning. (The Doddle is from Weymouth to Swanage). Vague plan to ride down from London on Saturday, camp or stay at the Swanage YHA, run round (ha!) then train home Sunday evening. TBD.

That will indeed be a quality weekend. There is a time limit of 12 hrs to get round the event which on the face of it, sounds very generous but then again, as the views become more spectacular in the last half, you may need to pause a while to take them all in.  ;)

Looking at the website, the fastest time last year was 5 hrs 24 mins so you have a target, dear boy.  :thumbsup:

It occurs to me that I am on holiday that week but back in the UK on the 18th......

H
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hummers on 30 March, 2010, 10:30:52 am
.... and I now have a pass to enter this event.

H
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 30 March, 2010, 10:32:33 am
Oh dear, Tuesday isn't it. That means the running machine this afternoon. 40 minutes. Hohum.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Manotea on 30 March, 2010, 10:47:07 am
.... and I now have a pass to enter this event.

Oh dear, what I done?!?!?!?

After 17 days on the trot (so to speak) I've missed a couple of days as I developed a sore heel, caused, I suspect, by lack of stretching. My calves were getting tight to the extent I was walking down stairs sideways first thing in the morning. I poppped down to the local Sweatshop for some advice on Saturday but the only thing the young chap who served me could suggest was to buy some new shoes which as they are a shoeshop was probably not unreasonable but I didn't feel like dropping £85 just then so I didn't. I'll see how things go from hereon. Apart from anything else I need to start alternating running with some cycling if I'm going to do some audax events this year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: tonyh on 30 March, 2010, 01:55:53 pm
£85

You could try some Sorbothane heelpads (or similar) for about £8 (rather a lot).
(They didn't get me back into running, but I think they have eased Achilles problems, long term.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 30 March, 2010, 02:54:21 pm
Blurgh.

9 minutes of my HR being 190bpm is all I can handle. Must have the remnants of a cold. Only managed 26 minutes. Will do another 15 minutes tomorrow to top myself up, also playing 5-a-side on Thursday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 31 March, 2010, 07:52:45 am

Oh dear, what I done?!?!?!?

After 17 days on the trot (so to speak) I've missed a couple of days as I developed a sore heel, caused, I suspect, by lack of stretching. My calves were getting tight to the extent I was walking down stairs sideways first thing in the morning. I poppped down to the local Sweatshop for some advice on Saturday but the only thing the young chap who served me could suggest was to buy some new shoes which as they are a shoeshop was probably not unreasonable but I didn't feel like dropping £85 just then so I didn't. I'll see how things go from hereon. Apart from anything else I need to start alternating running with some cycling if I'm going to do some audax events this year.

Maybe you shouldn't try and run everyday.  Standard advice is always make sure you take your rest days and try to vary your running.  Problem with YACF is too many cyclists and cyclists, audax ones in particular, always have to be different  ::-)

I usually run 4 days a week: at the moment something like 5 miles easy, 5 miles hard(ish), 6 miles off-road hilly and a long run (also off-road hilly at the moment).

Nik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 31 March, 2010, 07:58:45 am
Blurgh.

9 minutes of my HR being 190bpm is all I can handle. Must have the remnants of a cold. Only managed 26 minutes. Will do another 15 minutes tomorrow to top myself up, also playing 5-a-side on Thursday.

I suppose this is what happens when you run on a machine.  Out here in the real world you can just slow down till your breath agrees to stay in your lungs and the need to vomit fades (and some 70 year old woman jogs past you).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 31 March, 2010, 08:19:30 am
having had damn sore shins the last few times I've run, and having to not run for the past 2 weeks, I finally made it to a physio last night.  Really interesting process, checking flexibility and mobility, seeing how I stand then watching me run round a track.  

Seems I am very flexible 'for a cyclist', but rotate both of my feet over to the left, stand and run with my left foot directly under my body and right foot out to the side slightly,  walk and run with my feet too close together and run 'from the knee rather than from the hip'.  

She recons it comes from having underdeveloped glutes, something Mrs mike thought was hilarious, given the size of my backside..

So lots of arse-building exercises for the next eight weeks :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Manotea on 01 April, 2010, 11:55:40 pm

Oh dear, what I done?!?!?!?

After 17 days on the trot (so to speak) I've missed a couple of days as I developed a sore heel, caused, I suspect, by lack of stretching. My calves were getting tight to the extent I was walking down stairs sideways first thing in the morning. I poppped down to the local Sweatshop for some advice on Saturday but the only thing the young chap who served me could suggest was to buy some new shoes which as they are a shoeshop was probably not unreasonable but I didn't feel like dropping £85 just then so I didn't. I'll see how things go from hereon. Apart from anything else I need to start alternating running with some cycling if I'm going to do some audax events this year.

Maybe you shouldn't try and run everyday.  Standard advice is always make sure you take your rest days and try to vary your running.  Problem with YACF is too many cyclists and cyclists, audax ones in particular, always have to be different  ::-)

I usually run 4 days a week: at the moment something like 5 miles easy, 5 miles hard(ish), 6 miles off-road hilly and a long run (also off-road hilly at the moment).

Nik
A wise friend of mine once said the way to avoid injury is not to do the same thing (exercise/sport) two days in a row. Eddie of course had his personal physio, not that he seemed to take much advice!

Anyways its now time to start alternating running,  cycling and a bit of gym work. I really do need to get back on the bike.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 02 April, 2010, 09:05:29 am
She recons it comes from having underdeveloped glutes, something Mrs mike thought was hilarious, given the size of my backside..

The famous underdeveloped medial glutes again!

Medial glutes are the outside part of your arse -- it seems preposterously common for cyclists to have epic, mighty main glutes (they're a power muscle after all) but mimsy weak medial glutes.  After all, we're strapped in, and it doesn't take much power to keep our knees from flapping around.

Running with a slightly wider stance than feels natural will really activate the medial glutes. 

Weak medial glutes, alas, lead to ITB problems and all sorts if you run lots. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 02 April, 2010, 01:02:07 pm
She recons it comes from having underdeveloped glutes, something Mrs mike thought was hilarious, given the size of my backside..

The famous underdeveloped medial glutes again!

Medial glutes are the outside part of your arse -- it seems preposterously common for cyclists to have epic, mighty main glutes (they're a power muscle after all) but mimsy weak medial glutes.  After all, we're strapped in, and it doesn't take much power to keep our knees from flapping around.

Running with a slightly wider stance than feels natural will really activate the medial glutes. 

Weak medial glutes, alas, lead to ITB problems and all sorts if you run lots. 
I think Andy is spot on (well, he certainly agrees with various physios I've used!).

I'm a bit suspect of "Running with a slightly wider stance than feels natural"; sounds like it might cause other problems?

There are simple medial glute floor exercises (if noone finds a link, I'll try describing them!) - I would go for those first. In fact, I would advise them as a once-a-week preventative for all cyclists* (with my 20:20 Hindsight Goggles on).

*If you don't do much weight-bearing exercise - running, ball games etc
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: MSeries on 02 April, 2010, 01:05:59 pm
Interesting, how about these ?

Targeting the Gluteus Medius (http://www.bodyresults.com/e2gluteusmedius.asp)


Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 02 April, 2010, 01:09:30 pm
My physio had me doing #5 lots! 

1-leg squats too.  Hate those.  Hate hate hate THUD.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 02 April, 2010, 01:13:20 pm
Interesting, how about these ?

Targeting the Gluteus Medius (http://www.bodyresults.com/e2gluteusmedius.asp)

Yup - No2 is the one I can vouch for. No need to strap on a weight unless you're a big guy (I don't think endurance cyclists need a LOT of strength in that muscle).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 02 April, 2010, 08:12:32 pm
Barefoot run is up to 3.5km now.  Getting the hang of a faster turnover and shorter strides thanks to the treadmill work. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Manotea on 02 April, 2010, 08:22:49 pm
Round the Richmond Park today, slow as ever, dodging showers and admiring rainbows. I think my right heel problem may well be caused by worn shoes. Time to splash some cash.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 02 April, 2010, 11:25:07 pm
Barefoot run is up to 3.5km now.  Getting the hang of a faster turnover and shorter strides thanks to the treadmill work. :thumbsup:

Is that barefoot as in just your skin or with those odd shoes with the toes?(VFF?)
I like the idea of being able to run barefoot without my feet hurting. My feet are too pampered and soft though, so I'd need to condition them first. Is that what you did with the funny shoes?
(Yes, I am thinking about getting a pair for myself. I'm a sucker for freak factor and being a bit different to everyone else, plus I think they're cool shoes and if it helps me become able to run barefoot, then even better)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 03 April, 2010, 07:29:30 am
There is a chap I often see round my end of Oxford running barefoot.  I would say he was a Rastafarian but I'm not sure, he's often to be seen running in some sort of ceremonial gear - sort of leopard skin judo suit with matching flowerpot on head and voodoo stick.  He is a strong, elegant runner and makes quite a sight. 

I've seen him on and off for years but actually bothered to look at his feet the other week and his heals do seem to stop just before touching the ground.

Feet can get pretty tough if you walk barefoot a lot.  I used to go round barefoot a lot in my late teens and don't remember injuring myself.  We would stand at the bus stop on the way to the pub and I'd grind out my fag butt on the tarmac with bare feet - it'd get some great looks from the old dears.  God I was an obnoxious git!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 03 April, 2010, 07:40:14 am
It's with the funky toe-shoes.  Between the glass-and-poo protection and the thin non-padded skin, think of them as 'fearless feet' and you're about right.

Gonna do some triathlon in them this year.  Transition could be hilarious.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 03 April, 2010, 03:42:23 pm
I ran did Compton Challenge 20 today, 670 metres climbing in some very mixed terrain.  I was rather trepidatious about it as it rather hurt last year and this year there was the threat of heavy rain and wind to spice it up.  Target was 3hr 40m (yes I know that's slow but it's hilly and I'm feeble) and plan was to follow the example of my betters and walk the hills so I didn't end up walking the flat bits later.

1st mile was so muddy the woods turned into a bottle neck and most of us had to walk a bit while the gunge ouzed into our shoes.  Spent much of the first 10 miles running with VR ultra runner Anna Finn who was doing the 40 mile version which was a special run for her as it qualified her for the 100 Marathon Club, she'd done the 99th just yesterday.  Apparently the 100 MC are a bit like AUK and if she didn't do the whole 40 miles in the time limit it didn't count, no dropping out at 39 miles.  Various ultra tips from Anna and others: if you walk a hill start running again before the top; the secret of being able to run further is to run all the time (could have worked that out for myself); don't just ignore the pain in your legs, ignore the legs altogether etc.

I reached the bottom of the biggest hill at 10 miles with a few minutes in the bank, this being the off-road version of Streatley Hill, and walked it alternating walking forwards and walking backwards which spared my muscles enough for me to just take the brakes off and go with the flow down the long descent which followed.  Mile and half drag up to the 16 mile checkpoint was the nearest thing to a bad spot for me but a couple of orange squashes and a banana and I kept myself going for the last few miles along the Ridgeway by reminding myself how crap I'd felt at this stage last year.

Finished in something like 3:36 still smiling and was chuffed to find the finish goody was a proper running shirt rather than yet another T-shirt which made the £15 entry worthwhile (there was a free meal as well but I can't eat straight after running).  Great run, well organised, highly recommended, doesn't really hurt at all, not a drop of rain in the end (and they don't charge any more for the 40 miler).

Nik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 03 April, 2010, 03:51:09 pm
Cracking stuff Nik!

(I rode round to Goring at lunchtime - if I'd known I'd have headed to the Hendreds instead.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 04 April, 2010, 07:12:29 am
Cracking stuff Nik!

(I rode round to Goring at lunchtime - if I'd known I'd have headed to the Hendreds instead.)

Thanks Matt - maybe you were that black dot in Goring on the other side of the Thames way below about 11:30 - some excellent views from Lough Down up there by the golf course.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hummers on 05 April, 2010, 09:58:01 am
Cracking stuff Nik.

Entry posted for the Doddle.

H
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 05 April, 2010, 10:57:01 pm
Well done NikW. 

Good advice of the week must be "ignore the legs altogether"   ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Manotea on 06 April, 2010, 10:35:14 pm
Another run round my 11km circuit 'along the Thames with Ms Manotea the Elder trying to keep up on her bike. My gait is vaguely starting to resemble 'running'. Encouraging...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 06 April, 2010, 10:57:09 pm
Run up my local hill this afternoon in pretty foul conditions - most snow has gone leaving everywhere very very wet plus wind and driving rain on the tops was quite unpleasant.

Some lambs appearing, but also found two dead sheep who had sheltered by a wall and got buried by the snow - farmer reckoned he'd lost (as in couldn't find) 300 sheep and the bull (!) last week.

Very lethargic at start but after 20 mins felt OK and got better thro' the run, tho' a touch of cramp in left calf still bothering me.  Knackered now, but so pleased to have got out.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Manotea on 10 April, 2010, 12:24:25 pm
Scored a new pair of shoes on eBay (£30 against £85 at Sweatshop!) and my heel feels fine after yesterdays run. Whilst the tread on my old shoes was a bit worn the difference is only a couple of mm, and  the sole/heel cushioning feels much the same. Maybe its not the shoes and I'm just getting a bit lighter/fitter. One can hope.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sigurd Mudtracker on 10 April, 2010, 08:31:56 pm
This thread has a lot to answer for with discussions of LDWA events, "audax" running and ultras in general.  I've stumbled on the UltraMarathonRunning.com (http://www.ultramarathonrunning.com/) website which as well as events also has links to training advice (http://www.ultramarathonrunning.com/training/index.html), and in particular was taken by the UltraLadies' 50km advice (http://www.trailrunevents.com/ul/schedule-50k.htm) which suggested that even an ordinary mortal such as myself could do it.  So far I haven't entered anything, but have spent some time arguing with myself why I shouldn't rejig this year's training targets to run an ultra - next year is soon enough...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 11 April, 2010, 04:40:53 pm
This thread has a lot to answer for with discussions of LDWA events, "audax" running and ultras in general.  I've stumbled on the UltraMarathonRunning.com (http://www.ultramarathonrunning.com/) website which as well as events also has links to training advice (http://www.ultramarathonrunning.com/training/index.html), and in particular was taken by the UltraLadies' 50km advice (http://www.trailrunevents.com/ul/schedule-50k.htm) which suggested that even an ordinary mortal such as myself could do it.  So far I haven't entered anything, but have spent some time arguing with myself why I shouldn't rejig this year's training targets to run an ultra - next year is soon enough...

That UltraLadies schedule looks good - I like the idea* of knocking out a couple of marathons in the preceding month.  The authoress is a Badwater finisher so ought to know what she's going on about (but there again I suppose to her 50k is just the little bit at the end of Badwater after you've bagged the first 100 miles).  Why a separate schedule for ladies I wonder?

A good tale of ultra Scot Jurek having a bad time on Runners World (http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-243-297--13460-1-1X2X3X4X5X6X7X8X9X10X11X12-13,00.html#) website!

Been my turn for sore feet this week, sole of my left foot where the wotsit muscle joins the heal got so painful I walked back from my Tuesday run.  I think running Compton in worn shoes took it's toll but I just didn't feel it till afterwards.  A few days rest and a brand new pair of Inov8s and I was good for 10 miles trail today.

* Just the idea - I suspect the reality would be a bit wearing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 12 April, 2010, 09:39:25 pm
Meanwhile down at the short end of the course, it's time for a goal for the week: This 5k run loop (http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=50.710347&lng=-3.52232&zoom=15&directions=50.71662368543091,-3.509702682495117,50.706623277954606,-3.515496253967285,50.70944969633572,-3.5207748413085938,50.71469442508667,-3.5266971588134766,50.70993886683449,-3.5173416137695312,50.71643348019332,-3.5097885131835938&travel=foot&styleId=1&opened_tab=1) inna lunchtime barefoot stylee.  Not worried about time, Just Do It.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: geraldc on 12 April, 2010, 09:44:37 pm
Brighton Marathon this Sunday, not enough training, going to be interesting  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 13 April, 2010, 06:51:13 am
Brighton Marathon this Sunday, not enough training, going to be interesting  ;D

Good luck -  training just wears you out before you've even started  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 13 April, 2010, 06:55:16 am
Meanwhile down at the short end of the course, it's time for a goal for the week: This 5k run loop (http://maps.cloudmade.com/?lat=50.710347&lng=-3.52232&zoom=15&directions=50.71662368543091,-3.509702682495117,50.706623277954606,-3.515496253967285,50.70944969633572,-3.5207748413085938,50.71469442508667,-3.5266971588134766,50.70993886683449,-3.5173416137695312,50.71643348019332,-3.5097885131835938&travel=foot&styleId=1&opened_tab=1) inna lunchtime barefoot stylee.  Not worried about time, Just Do It.

I had a strange turn last week after that bad run.  I thought 'why not' took my shoes and socks off and ran gently once round the meadow.  Only about 500 metres but still quite liberating and surprisingly comfortable.

A bloke walking his dog made a point of looking in the opposite direction to avoid meeting the nutters eyes  :o
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 13 April, 2010, 02:57:07 pm
Uphill is so much nicer than down.  Done, with several stops to stretch out the giant balloon calves of DEATH.  Now to do it moar!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 16 April, 2010, 09:27:10 pm
One other benefit of vff - they are excellent for squats and deadlifts   ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 16 April, 2010, 09:37:54 pm
Aren't they just?   ;D

They utterly suck for turbo-trainer work though.  I forgot my bike shoes for tonight's tri club session, and had to do everything in the vff's.  Running fine, turbo daft.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 17 April, 2010, 02:32:56 pm
What is your thinking for your triathlon - will you swap shoes or use toeclips and keep the vffs on all the time (could you swim in them)?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 19 April, 2010, 10:55:37 am
Brighton Marathon this Sunday, not enough training, going to be interesting  ;D

So was it fun  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: geraldc on 20 April, 2010, 09:52:00 am
It was excellent! I plodded round the course in 5hrs 5 mins. Which I'm more than happy with given the level of training, and extra weight I'm carrying  ;D

It was a great marathon, weather was a bit too sunny, but with only 10 thousand runners, and massive crowds lining almost the entire course it was a great experience.
I actually thought it was far better than the London marathon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 20 April, 2010, 02:31:03 pm
What is your thinking for your triathlon - will you swap shoes or use toeclips and keep the vffs on all the time (could you swim in them)?

I'll swap shoes.  I bike sockless anyway (there's no point for half an hour) so it'll just be the hilarity of getting them on at speed.  I'll be practicing that.

Note for cycling: they have about a -5mm platform height, 'cos you squish down into the spindle.  That means that your saddle *is* too high (which is what I think re-borked my knee on the turbo).  Also, they suck.  Really really suck.  Unless you have big solid platforms, they suck chunky goat vomit through a twisty straw.  Cruiser = yay.  Time trial = you may as well keep your hair dry in the swim and towel off.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 20 April, 2010, 06:32:09 pm
It was excellent! I plodded round the course in 5hrs 5 mins. Which I'm more than happy with given the level of training, and extra weight I'm carrying  ;D

It was a great marathon, weather was a bit too sunny, but with only 10 thousand runners, and massive crowds lining almost the entire course it was a great experience.
I actually thought it was far better than the London marathon.

It was a bit warm Sunday - I managed to get both sunburnt and dehydrated on my long run and was still back before lunch.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 21 April, 2010, 02:11:59 pm
This morning was lovely, my lift to the TT tonight is not happening so I ran in. Even did an extra loop on the hill.

3.5 miles, 365ft ascent, 450 descent, but my legs ache a bit and I am HUNGRY.

..d
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 23 April, 2010, 10:35:43 am

I'm not convinced that humans are that well designed for running at all, animals that stuck to using all four limbs seem to be better at it.  I guess we had to learn to run on two legs to escape predators when we came down from the trees but now we are civilised we've realised it easier just to make them extinct instead.


You might like to read "Born to Run" by Christopher McDougall (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Born-Run-Ultra-running-Super-athlete-Tribe/dp/1861978235/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267974067&sr=8-2) (coming out in paperback next month).  He puts forward a very persuasive argument that humans are made to run, and that our bipedal approach gives us certain advantages over quadrupeds which allowed early man to be a very successful hunter and to range far and wide.  Expanding on this argument he goes on to show evidence that most runners can continue to function at the same sort of level with little relative decline into their sixties.  This cheered me up immensely!


I've been reading 'Born to Run', a great book, much more 'Feet in the Clouds' than 'Runners Handbook'.  Very engrossing, a proper story with a plot rather than a load of training blurgh - highly recommended  :thumbsup: 

Not quite finished it yet but after sinking into the story with a couple of beers I was getting very tempted to throw all my shoes in the bin, run the trails and go to work barefoot (do they do steel toecap VFFs?).  The arguments and evidence against over-protective shoes are good but I guess the problem is that many of us are too broken and dysfunctional to even survive without society's artificial cushionings, let alone run.

Still after I've got the Neolithic Marathon out of the way I think I may experiment (and maybe eat a few of my earlier words).

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 23 April, 2010, 03:02:23 pm

I'm not convinced that humans are that well designed for running at all, animals that stuck to using all four limbs seem to be better at it.  I guess we had to learn to run on two legs to escape predators when we came down from the trees but now we are civilised we've realised it easier just to make them extinct instead.


You might like to read "Born to Run" by Christopher McDougall (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Born-Run-Ultra-running-Super-athlete-Tribe/dp/1861978235/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267974067&sr=8-2) (coming out in paperback next month).  He puts forward a very persuasive argument that humans are made to run, and that our bipedal approach gives us certain advantages over quadrupeds which allowed early man to be a very successful hunter and to range far and wide.  Expanding on this argument he goes on to show evidence that most runners can continue to function at the same sort of level with little relative decline into their sixties.  This cheered me up immensely!


I've been reading 'Born to Run', a great book, much more 'Feet in the Clouds' than 'Runners Handbook'.  Very engrossing, a proper story with a plot rather than a load of training blurgh - highly recommended  :thumbsup: 

 I was getting very tempted to throw all my shoes in the bin, run the trails and go to work barefoot (do they do steel toecap VFFs?). 



Thanks for the headsup on "Born to Run" in paperback - something for the birthday list.

Instead of steel toecapped vff try these
Dunlop Footwear (http://www.dunlopfootwear.com.au/ProductDetail.asp?PID=147&SCID=574&dir=SAFETY%20FOOTWEAR)

flat heels for forefoot running encouraged, little or no cushioning and very non-slip.  plus your toes are protected   ;D

think they'll do a job and a lot cheaper than vffs
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 23 April, 2010, 03:25:45 pm
Is that Chuck Norris?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 April, 2010, 03:26:42 pm
Chuck doesn't need a nail gun.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 08 May, 2010, 07:14:10 pm
having had damn sore shins the last few times I've run, and having to not run for the past 2 weeks, I finally made it to a physio last night.  Really interesting process, checking flexibility and mobility, seeing how I stand then watching me run round a track. 

Seems I am very flexible 'for a cyclist', but rotate both of my feet over to the left, stand and run with my left foot directly under my body and right foot out to the side slightly,  walk and run with my feet too close together and run 'from the knee rather than from the hip'. 

She recons it comes from having underdeveloped glutes, something Mrs mike thought was hilarious, given the size of my backside..

So lots of arse-building exercises for the next eight weeks :)

update..

have been gradually building up distance, starting off at 3 minutes run / 1 minute walk for 20 minutes, concentrating on keeping my feet a bit wider apart and trying to push rather than pull (if that makes sense). 

& its going really well!  just back from 9 miles in 90 minutes, which was 11 x 7 minutes run, 1 minute walk.  A beautiful run, could have gone a bit quicker but wanted to make sure I didnt explode before the end.  No shin pain at all, just tired legs. 

I dont want to push my luck so will do some short sharp intervals or hills for the next week or so then got a triathlon in <gulp> Keswick in a fortnight so that'll be a nice hilly 10k test.......
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 10 May, 2010, 06:14:18 pm
having had damn sore shins the last few times I've run, and having to not run for the past 2 weeks, I finally made it to a physio last night.  Really interesting process, checking flexibility and mobility, seeing how I stand then watching me run round a track. 

Seems I am very flexible 'for a cyclist', but rotate both of my feet over to the left, stand and run with my left foot directly under my body and right foot out to the side slightly,  walk and run with my feet too close together and run 'from the knee rather than from the hip'. 

She recons it comes from having underdeveloped glutes, something Mrs mike thought was hilarious, given the size of my backside..

So lots of arse-building exercises for the next eight weeks :)

update..

have been gradually building up distance, starting off at 3 minutes run / 1 minute walk for 20 minutes, concentrating on keeping my feet a bit wider apart and trying to push rather than pull (if that makes sense). 

& its going really well!  just back from 9 miles in 90 minutes, which was 11 x 7 minutes run, 1 minute walk.  A beautiful run, could have gone a bit quicker but wanted to make sure I didnt explode before the end.  No shin pain at all, just tired legs. 

I dont want to push my luck so will do some short sharp intervals or hills for the next week or so then got a triathlon in <gulp> Keswick in a fortnight so that'll be a nice hilly 10k test.......

If you can run/walk 9 miles @ 10 min/miles pain free then I don't see you having much problem racing 10k.

Though you do the run bit last with tri don't you - guess you could be a bit knackered ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 16 May, 2010, 10:37:11 pm
Did my first 10k in 5+ years last weekend, so decided to put a bit more in to it today, on the basis I knew I could get around. Loads of effort, culminating in coughing/vomiting when I stopped. All that effort got took 27 seconds off the time. TWENTY SEVEN SECONDS! There is no justice in this world.

I blame the tories.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 17 May, 2010, 08:37:00 pm
That's not trivial!  It's, um...

six seconds per mile

...okay, it's not epic either.  But it's FASTER and that's full of WIN! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 17 May, 2010, 09:15:26 pm
Surely it all depends which seconds they were. 

I scraped in at 49:52 at the Prestwood 10k yesterday - another 7 secs would be neither here nor there but another 10 secs would have felt like whole minutes  ;D

You didn't throw up on the timekeeper did you  :sick:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 25 May, 2010, 12:59:58 pm
There is a chap I often see round my end of Oxford running barefoot.  I would say he was a Rastafarian but I'm not sure, he's often to be seen running in some sort of ceremonial gear - sort of leopard skin judo suit with matching flowerpot on head and voodoo stick.  He is a strong, elegant runner and makes quite a sight. 

I've seen him on and off for years but actually bothered to look at his feet the other week and his heals do seem to stop just before touching the ground.

Feet can get pretty tough if you walk barefoot a lot.  I used to go round barefoot a lot in my late teens and don't remember injuring myself.  We would stand at the bus stop on the way to the pub and I'd grind out my fag butt on the tarmac with bare feet - it'd get some great looks from the old dears.  God I was an obnoxious git!

2 barefoot runs - 4x2mins around the football club's training pitch - in the middle of 'normal' runs. Felt bloody fantastic, no ill effects so far.
Did a cautious recce of the loop with shoes on first, then went for it. At this stage the slightest bit of hard earth sends alarm signals through my feet, if I tread on a stone I shall probably faint.  If it wasn't for budget issues I'd buy some VFFs right now.

Now upto 30mins (plus a little cautionary walking). Using the old shoes to avoid blisters. Dorsal pain went away following:
- rest
- use of inserts to raise my heel while walking
- new orthotics, as recommended by podio, in running shoes.

I guess I need new shoes that fit differently to cure the blister issue. Why are the VFFs so expensive?!? Might buy some cheap/light racing flats instead ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 27 May, 2010, 07:48:58 am

2 barefoot runs - 4x2mins around the football club's training pitch - in the middle of 'normal' runs. Felt bloody fantastic, no ill effects so far.
Did a cautious recce of the loop with shoes on first, then went for it. At this stage the slightest bit of hard earth sends alarm signals through my feet, if I tread on a stone I shall probably faint.  If it wasn't for budget issues I'd buy some VFFs right now.

Now upto 30mins (plus a little cautionary walking). Using the old shoes to avoid blisters. Dorsal pain went away following:
- rest
- use of inserts to raise my heel while walking
- new orthotics, as recommended by podio, in running shoes.

I guess I need new shoes that fit differently to cure the blister issue. Why are the VFFs so expensive?!? Might buy some cheap/light racing flats instead ...

I bought a pair of VFF Sprints of ebay for £60.  1st attempt I didn't really like them, my toes have been together for many years and didn't like being separated, also I was actively trying to run on my midfoot rather than just running and seeing what happened.

Went out in them yesterday though and ran a very comfy mile on grass, I just ran as normal and my style adjusted itself.  I've no ambition to do any distance in them but think a short session every week could be fun.

If you buy them on-line be very aware of the unusual sizing methods, you have to measure your feet and look at a chart and the size is likely to be much smaller than your normal shoe size.

Nik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 27 May, 2010, 11:43:56 am
Can't I go full african and run in some cheap sandals? This site suggests I can:

Barefoot Ted's Adventures: Huarache Running Sandals: Kits & Custom (http://barefootted.com/shop/)

Anyone found anything similar?

Meanwhile:
These are NOT Vibram Five Fingers!  Spotting Fakes, Counterfeits, Knock-Offs, and other Pirated, Black Market Five-Toed Shoes (http://birthdayshoes.com/these-are-not-vibram-five-fingers-spotting-fakes-counterfeits-knock-offs-and-other-pirated-black-market-five-toed-shoes)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 27 May, 2010, 12:59:09 pm
Sure you can - and as soon as I find a sheet of rubber in a skip, I'll give it a go. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 27 May, 2010, 01:18:04 pm
Can't I go full african and run in some cheap sandals? This site suggests I can:

Barefoot Ted's Adventures: Huarache Running Sandals: Kits & Custom (http://barefootted.com/shop/)

Anyone found anything similar?

Meanwhile:
These are NOT Vibram Five Fingers!  Spotting Fakes, Counterfeits, Knock-Offs, and other Pirated, Black Market Five-Toed Shoes (http://birthdayshoes.com/these-are-not-vibram-five-fingers-spotting-fakes-counterfeits-knock-offs-and-other-pirated-black-market-five-toed-shoes)

Oh dear - I see mine in the picture  :-[   AND I could have got the same fakes £15 cheaper  :(

Very convincing what with the proper box and leaflet and even the tag.   They do seem very well made fakes though and as I say quite comfy after a bit.  I guess I'll just try not to be too far from home when they fall apart or I'll be doing some proper barefoot running  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 27 May, 2010, 01:20:22 pm
Sure you can - and as soon as I find a sheet of rubber in a skip, I'll give it a go. :thumbsup:

I think it said old car tires were the proper stuff in 'Born to Run' :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 27 May, 2010, 04:37:48 pm
Sorry Nik! Best  not to worry, just use the things, nothing to lose.

(And note that some copies come from the same factory  :thumbsup:)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 27 May, 2010, 05:26:31 pm
Sorry Nik! Best  not to worry, just use the things, nothing to lose.

(And note that some copies come from the same factory  :thumbsup:)

But won't ordinary people in the street stop and stare and say; "Look that man's wearing FAKE vffs!"  :o
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 27 May, 2010, 07:52:57 pm
Sure you can - and as soon as I find a sheet of rubber in a skip, I'll give it a go. :thumbsup:

I think it said old car tires were the proper stuff in 'Born to Run' :thumbsup:

I reckon that the inner tube from a mountain bike would just be wide enough.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 27 May, 2010, 09:55:29 pm
Way too flimsy, surely?  Practically fake-vff sole! ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 27 May, 2010, 10:55:25 pm
Way too flimsy, surely?  Practically fake-vff sole! ;)

You could glue a couple together. Rub the sides to be glued with some emery cloth to remove the silicon, then glue togther with superglue.
Or put some repair pathches where your toes, ball of the foot and heel go.

They'd be tailor made too, cos you'd draw around your feet before you cut the rubber.

Worth a punt with a knackered mountain bike tube I reckon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 28 May, 2010, 11:07:25 am
Yup, old MTB tubes have I. (still with some material not harvested for other rational use)

How to attach to feet? Superglue?


or ....



toe strap!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 28 May, 2010, 02:06:30 pm
A bit thick.  String is a wonderful thing.  I'm going to use paracord.

Another pattern: Minimalist Running Sandals (Huaraches) (http://www.instructables.com/id/Minimalist-Running-Sandals-Huaraches/)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 28 May, 2010, 02:16:18 pm
What prevents string/paracord/barkstrips from abrading one's skin?

Are the designs trial and error?

Or do you just need soft/smooth/furry types of string?

(think I'll try a short run in my sandals later ... )
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 28 May, 2010, 02:36:27 pm
Buggered if I know.  Magic Tribal Knots or skin like leather.  Let us know how they work out.  :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 26 June, 2010, 04:19:38 pm
I tried some Nike Free 3.0 on Friday. Felt really nice to run in, and only £65*. The shop balked at stocking the Vibrams, cos they couldn't see customers paying the extra.

I would be very tempted, but there are none IN THE UK in my size (except possibly some ladies model, which oddly are £15 cheaper).

The 5.0 were good, but have a lot more heel on them, which seems to miss the point somewhat :-/

So if anyone sees any (around size 9) actually in stock**, let me know.

Oh, quick plug for Fit 2 Run, north Abingdon - really helpful bunch, and cyclist-friendly :thumbsup:

*Which is still a lot of momey for so little shoe!
** No, I won't accept Google Search Results e.g. Wiggle do NOT have any.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 03 July, 2010, 01:13:54 pm
Spookily, this arrived the same morning as the MC1K routesheet:

Dorset Doddle Saturday, 3 July, 2010 12:09
From: "Dorset LDWA" <h...@btinternet.com>
To: mattc

Entry confirmation
+ 1 coach seat


*Double gulp*
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 05 July, 2010, 05:53:48 pm
I ran my first 10k race in years yesterday - because it happened to be starting about 250m away from where I live. No preparation worth mentioning, I had a hangover and it was a really burningly hot day and a hilly course. I was seriously considering not bothering, and once I did decide to go for it, I thought I would just take it easy and jog round in an hour.

Actually I got home in 46.08 (pacing 4.37) and was one place off an age-group medal (20th overall).  ;D However, if I had realised, I might have gone for it a bit more.  >:( I am now going to get back to training properly, and do another 10K in a month or so, and a half marathon in the autumn. If it all goes well, next year I reckon I could easily get nearer 40 minutes, and certainly under 44.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Frenchie on 10 July, 2010, 04:29:14 am
No bike. So regular running action for me for the past two weeks, but also in June; something I enjoy when I travel as a means to do some tourism, relax after meetings or simply start the day or get some "me-time". Did quite a bit of grass and dirt track/trail running this week, have enjoyed it and, so far, my Achille's heel is behaving. More tomorrow morning, in Central Sao Paulo this time (Parque do Trianon!).

PS And still enjoying my Adidas Supernovas.  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 22 August, 2010, 06:34:03 pm
Went out for a 3km run. Relaxed 12kph pace. Knees felt good.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 25 August, 2010, 07:43:35 pm
Here is a classic event that might still be open for entries this year:

Dorset Doddle (http://www.btinternet.com/~hardy.annual/doddle.htm)

The fact that it is in Dorset, is referred to as a 'Doddle'  and follows the undulations of the coast should give you an idea what to expect.  :demon:

I have not done the event itself but used the route for training and for many years "the Dorset training day" would appear ominously in the calendar around Easter.

H

Still open for entries. Apparently.
You can read about our experiment in cycling as training for coastal walking:
Dorset Doddle 31mile Coast Walk, 22nd Aug (http://faffing.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/dorset-doddle-31mile-coast-walk-22nd-aug/)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Manotea on 26 August, 2010, 05:08:04 pm
My prose can be found here (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=37289.msg704767#msg704767).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 26 August, 2010, 08:31:24 pm
5km off road. And 50km cycling. Damp.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jakob on 03 September, 2010, 05:20:35 am
I've always hated running. Hated!. Put me on a bike, and I'll happily pedal for hours, ask me to run and I'll blow up in 30 seconds, regardless of my fitness level. (Unless, I'm chasing a ball or a frisbee, of course..that's different).
(Un)fortunately, it's an integral part of Crossfit, so over the last 2 months, I've been running more than I probably have the last 20 years....and are slowly getting used to it. I still don't like it, but at least I don't hate it( as much).
Mostly we run in 400meter segments, either as warm-up or part of the multi-part work-out. Tonight, we ended up running 2k in total, which for me is quite a lot!
Anyways: I would like to improve my basic running technique, because I'm sure it's neither here or there. Any websites that are good for starting runners?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 07 September, 2010, 04:33:59 pm
Last week: daily moderate-paced 7km, split by 50km bike ride and strength-training.

This week: 13km (today, race speed, so just under 1 hour), up the regular daily run to 10km moderate paced (plus strength-training and bike rides).

Next week: 18km at race speed, keep regular run at 10km (plus strength-training and bike rides).

Week after next: reduce to 7 km regular again, with another c.13km extra one at race speed (plus strength-training and bike rides).

Three weeks' time, short runs just keep warm, loose and stretched, a nice bike ride in the middle of the week, then half-marathon on the weekend... yikes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 12 September, 2010, 10:13:29 am
Haven't run in a few months, but got talking to some other Dads at a Dad's night down the pub (village life is so rock and/or roll), and 10km times came up. I kept schtum, because my best time is from about 7 years ago. However, I was inspired, so decided to do  10km this morning, I did it in just under 49 mins, which is a couple of minutes over my best time, but suggests to me that I am fitter now fromn cycling that I was when I was running regularly back then.

Got into a "it's not a race" race on the way back on my loop, which helped. He was younger and faster (and had nicer hair) than me, but I didn't let him catch me for the 3km before we parted company. I was glad he did go the other way, because I would have puked at the pace I was going to hold him off.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 19 September, 2010, 05:24:47 pm
Last week was awful on the commute after that run - took until friday not to feel bruised. Despite that, I did it again this morning, but deliberately aimed for a steady 12kph average, and managed it. Spent the afternoon wandering around Anglesey Abbey looking for conkers, and the legs feel much better. Hopefully, they'll feel okay in the morning.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 19 September, 2010, 06:51:13 pm
10 miles here yesterday at a very, very gentle 10kph average, I really enjoyed it and am starting to find the equivalent of 'all day gentle ride pace' on my 2 feet.  Then 3 miles straight after a 50 mile bike ride this morning and it was just awful.. my legs felt worse than during a tri but I suppose it's got to help in the long term!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 20 September, 2010, 03:26:20 pm
I did about the same in distance yestreday. The schedule (above) hasn't quite worked out as I was saying due to me having to travel - but I did manage a couple of 13k runs and a 10k last week as well as some gym work (weights and rowing machine) and then did 16k in a gentle 1hr 20 yesterday - I guess that's 12kph. Felt fine afterwards and feel absolutely fine today. So the preparation is going well anyway! I'm going to do a couple of fast 10k's this week and some strength work, and then a final longer one (probably the same 16k) next weekend, before lowering the work rate in the week before the half marathon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 03 October, 2010, 03:19:04 pm
Missed last weekends run, but did 10k in 47m05s this morning. I know the best 10k I did when I was at uni was 47m, so those 5 seconds deny me claiming a PB. It feels like I could go below 45m at some point, so I'll probably have that as a goal for next year. At the mo, I hold back until about 3/4s of the way round in case my legs go.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 03 October, 2010, 10:09:55 pm
Did the half marathon today. It was a cold day, with the wind in the wrong direction - the whole route was set up on the basis of a prevailing south-westerly but today it was from the east. Nevertheless, I was going well and on target for around 1.43, but something nasty happened deep inside my left thigh with about 5km to go and I limped home very painfully in about 1.48. There is nothing worse than feeling you are going backwards, as runner after runner overtakes you...

*update - actually,  I just checked the official times, and it was 1.46.16 and 85th out of 630, so not as bad as I thought (especially for my first ever competitive half). Still as painful, though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 04 October, 2010, 04:13:10 pm
running is the weakest part of my triathlon by miles, and in the past it's been a good way to shift some of the lard, so to give me something to aim for I've just entered a half marathon in Norwich at the end of November. 

Managed 10k last night in a pretty comfy 58 minutes, so with five weeks to go should be on track for something better than 2 hours.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 04 October, 2010, 04:36:56 pm
Good luck, Mike. Sounds like 2 hours would be reasonable given where you are now.

My advice is simple to pace yourself, and if there are pacers provided in the race stick with the 2 hour one (the half I did had several guys wearing cardboard bunny ears which had the time they were pacing for written on them. I should have stuck with the 1.45 guy instead of thinking that I felt good enough to run a few minutes faster than that... which no doubt contributed to the injury I did myself).

Oh, and remember that running a half is not just two 10Ks: that extra 1-and-a-bit km at the end is an absolute killer.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 10 October, 2010, 10:05:12 pm
Today has been spent feeding my newly aquired garden incinerator. Didn't get the kids off to bed on time, so did my first run in the dark with a head torch. Lots of country lanes with no street lighting and it was a clear starry night. Just 7km (still got housework to do) but brilliant fun. Quite tempted by a Zebratorch now.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: michael2u on 11 October, 2010, 09:20:34 am
I would like to tell my experience which is not so good about running but one thing is there to support me that I am a football player and running is basic necessity of the game. However, I haven't measured it in hours or in kilometers but still I run everyday to keep up my stamina. :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 24 October, 2010, 08:54:55 pm
Just ran 13km with a neighbour. He's a bit slower than me, so I did all the talking. He's got an iphone with a piece of software call runkeeper. He set it for 50min 10km pace, and we stayed within 3 seconds of it throughout. Felt like I could have just kept going and going at that pace. Good fun.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 01 November, 2010, 08:08:57 pm
I keep forgetting that unlike bimbly jogging, forefoot-style running is advanced, by which I mean that if you stop doing it for a few weeks, it'll utterly spank you when you restart.

As Captain Restarto, of the Good Ship Lets-Try-That-Again, this bites. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 01 November, 2010, 08:11:21 pm
Do you think so Andy? I find I can run pretty slowly forefoot-stylee too!

[but then i haven't run far or quickly for years now, so YMMV ... ]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 01 November, 2010, 08:17:59 pm
It's not the speed, it's the regularity of the activity!  (I'm slow, I'm slow like entropy!)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 01 November, 2010, 08:48:27 pm
I keep forgetting that unlike bimbly jogging, forefoot-style running is advanced, by which I mean that if you stop doing it for a few weeks, it'll utterly spank you when you restart.

As Captain Restarto, of the Good Ship Lets-Try-That-Again, this bites. :facepalm:

Tell me about it. I've hardly been out since that half-marathon. I can feel the fat accreting and many long slow months of hard training ahead to get back where I was just a few weeks ago...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 07 November, 2010, 11:15:38 am
just got an android phone and installed one of those pacing apps (cardio trainer). Previous 10k pb  was 47.05. Set it at 45min pace and ran a 44.24 without really trying that hard. Massive help getting continuous updates on projected time. It's free (paid option give extras plus integration with a livestrong alike calorie tracking app).

About - WorkSmart CardioTrainer (http://www.worksmartlabs.com/cardiotrainer/about.php)

Unlike Runkeeper, the  voice prompt thing comes with the free version.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 10 November, 2010, 12:05:02 am
Tonight I was on the treadmill at the gym. Went up to 12kph for 10 minutes. 45 minutes and 7.12km in all. Race pace around 14kph to beat my PB next week.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 14 November, 2010, 08:37:38 pm
Ran 4 miles this afternoon in drizzle.  Wore too much clothes, overheated!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 15 November, 2010, 04:08:04 pm
I'm back to 7k, three or four days a week... bit of a break from the freezing temperatures here too, so I have to take advantage while it lasts. Actually the temperature isn't the problem, it's when the sides of the roads are basically all black ice.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 16 November, 2010, 03:46:33 pm
Another half hour run this lunchtime. Going to try to beat my #camfunrun PB on Friday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 19 November, 2010, 01:12:38 pm
Another half hour run this lunchtime. Going to try to beat my #camfunrun PB on Friday.

 :thumbsup:

I timed my run as 6'50 for the 1.1 (1.13 by my reckoning) mile course.  I have done 7'01 on three of the previous five attempts.  Paced using GPS watch; averaged 6'02 per mile pace.  Now I have a new target for next year, averaging under a 6 minute mile.

Average HR was 182bpm.

 :hand:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 21 November, 2010, 09:29:17 am
Went for a slowish run with my neighbour. 16km in 1m23s. Furthest I've run about 6 years - felt great.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Chris S on 21 November, 2010, 09:35:30 am
Went for a slowish run with my neighbour. 16km in 1m23s. Furthest I've run about 6 years - felt great.

 :o

Well Done!  :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 21 November, 2010, 11:08:25 am
Lol

Yeah, 1h23m.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 21 November, 2010, 11:36:27 am

      
      Science Park Fun Run 2010 by simon.proven at Garmin Connect - Details   (http://bit.ly/bX9jBv)

Hr max of 193 from the 'fun' run.

Noone can say I wasn't trying.  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 22 November, 2010, 04:44:41 pm
Starting to get back into this. I tend to get to the gymn, set the treadmill to something that is probably desperately slow by the regular runners standards and the computer thingy to intervals where it does 2 mins flat, then 2 (or 4, or 6 depending on the options chosen)  at 3% gradient. Rinse lather repeat. Run for a bit. If I am feeling keen then I will up the pace by 0.1 every set. After about half an hour or 500 calories I am usually pretty tired.

Wednesday I might run in, then back via the hospital (ahich would be a rather longer run than I am used to.)
..d
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: andygates on 02 January, 2011, 11:08:03 pm
Whoops, got talked into the Forest of Dean half-marathon.  12 weeks away!  (almost exactly one training plan, then :thumbsup: ) Better get started...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: border-rider on 03 January, 2011, 10:04:53 pm
Local

I might drag Tewdric along to laugh & point at you :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 02 February, 2011, 01:23:43 pm
I did my first fell race last Sat near Llandovery, 5 miles/1250' category AS

I came 2nd. 2nd last that is. I think another chap didn't finish so technically I was almost out of the bottom three. Conclusion: fell running is not something generally done by "fun runners". Rather, I was competing against whippet-build athletes including someone who "used to run for Wales" and just about everyone else was wearing a club vest.

I was fairly pleased with my time actually (58:29 for a hilly 5 miles, 4/5 of which was off road).

Managed to do a 56:26 flattish Tarmac 10k last night. Target for the next few weeks is to get to sub 50 mins. I used the runkeeper iPhone app last night for the first time - not bad apart from the hassle of running with my iPhone in my hand.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 11 February, 2011, 08:31:57 pm
Dragged my distance up to just over 8k on the treadmill tonight. Just under 48 mins of 2 minute intervals (as above) at 10.1 km/h
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 13 February, 2011, 04:17:57 pm
I've been running 10k twice a week in the ice and snow. Good for endurance rather than speed! As the conditions ease here, I'm going to up my weekend run to 15 to 20 to 25 (and more, occasionally) for endurance, and use my midweek 10 for speed work.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 18 February, 2011, 11:53:46 pm
Up to 10k tonight on the treadmill. 10.1 kph with the 2 minute intervals. Wow that takes something out of me. Bit weary now but I'll try to build the speed up now I can do the distance.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 19 February, 2011, 09:52:12 pm
A steady 15k in hideous, icy, windy conditions today. Summer will be a breeze in comparison!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 21 March, 2011, 12:31:39 pm
20.5km yesterday - my first go at my 'not quite a half marathon' loop. I think I have a persistent problem in my hip. Exactly the same pain as when I did a proper competitive half last year. It seems to kick in after about 15km. I have no pain doing 10s or any other sport. Hmm. I have a feeling I am never going to be able to run very long distances.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 21 March, 2011, 12:37:27 pm
FM:
If you can run OK for 15km, this might well be a muscle-fatigue/posture thing. So fixable by a physio. I stress might, as you don't give any details, but I thought I'd try to be positive!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 21 March, 2011, 06:17:44 pm
FM:
If you can run OK for 15km, this might well be a muscle-fatigue/posture thing. So fixable by a physio. I stress might, as you don't give any details, but I thought I'd try to be positive!

I hope so - I am going to arrange an appointment when I get back from being away this week. It feels like something in the joint, but you can't always trust your feelings!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 26 March, 2011, 10:33:59 pm
First race of the season this Sunday - a chilly 10k. I'm runing to check my condition and development rather than to compete. I'll tell you how it goes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 27 March, 2011, 08:59:14 pm
Err, that was unexpected... I was the first bloke home, and was second overall - beaten by a very nice woman, with whom I ran for the first 2km. We were totally on our own, but I dropped back just a little because my knee was giving me warning signs, which didn't end up turning into anything worse, but which did mean I was more or less 150m behind her the rest of the way. My time was just over 42 minutes, which wouldn't trouble the front end of any 10k race in a bigger city or later in the season, but that's about 3 minutes faster than I was aiming for.

Happy!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 28 March, 2011, 11:03:33 am
Well run FM  :thumbsup:

(I believe it's pretty rare for a woman to win a mixed sex running race so I bet she was chuffed.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 28 March, 2011, 02:07:34 pm
Well run FM  :thumbsup:

(I believe it's pretty rare for a woman to win a mixed sex running race so I bet she was chuffed.)

She certainly was, especially as she said she only 'used to be' a serious runner. She was a lovely woman, and I was really pleased for her too.

I have to say it was probably pretty embarassing for all those tall, lean young men in the race to be beaten by a woman and a little bloke, who is really a cyclist, in his late thirties!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 31 March, 2011, 01:48:00 pm
Well, I'm paying for it all now... I seem to have a stress fracture in the navicular bone of my left foot.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: JJ on 01 April, 2011, 01:26:30 am
PB on the run home tonight.  46 min dead.  Yay for running in daylight!
That's still 9 min. miles mind!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 01 April, 2011, 01:37:34 pm
Just seen the official times for the 10k on Sunday - 40.49 for me. Pretty happy with that at this stage in the season, even with the fracture!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 03 April, 2011, 02:53:50 pm
Just seen the official times for the 10k on Sunday - 40.49 for me. Pretty happy with that at this stage in the season, even with the fracture!

Ow  :facepalm: - think I'd rather have JJs 9 minute mileing and no injury myself - hope it heals quick and you can can resist the urge to run on it before it's fixed.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 05 April, 2011, 11:03:33 am
Just seen the official times for the 10k on Sunday - 40.49 for me. Pretty happy with that at this stage in the season, even with the fracture!

Ow  :facepalm: - think I'd rather have JJs 9 minute mileing and no injury myself - hope it heals quick and you can can resist the urge to run on it before it's fixed.

Don't worry, I am res(is)ting it. And it's more to do with overtraining than the specific run on Sunday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 25 April, 2011, 12:58:57 pm
The inaugural Abingdon Parkrun (http://www.parkrun.org.uk/Abingdon/home) 5k is going to be held at 9am Saturday 7th May so I'm planning to give it a go (provided I'm not totally crippled by next weekends Brevet Cymru).

From what I can gather Parkruns are free, timed, 5 kilometre running events that seem to be such a great idea they are springing up all over the place. They are 'all comers' events but it's polite to let the organisers know if you expect to take more than 50 minutes.

Already loads in London and more local to me in Reading, Swindon and Milton Keynes (not that I've done any of these). It's sort of a local volunteers supported by strong national umbrella organisation set-up (bit like audax). You have to register (for free) on the Parkrun (http://www.parkrun.com/home) website and get your barcode which works for any location.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 26 April, 2011, 09:09:57 am
That sounds great Nik  :thumbsup:

You didn't mention that they have corporate sponsorship - you can't have free entry without someone paying somewhere along the line!

It's good to see companies supporting REALLY grass roots level sport. Anyone can limp round 5k, and its a long way from the glamorous events sponsors usually love (especially with no mention of charidee).

I'll check the calendar, and maybe drag N along.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 05 May, 2011, 02:18:56 pm
Only a week or so until I can run again. I am just itching to get out there, but I have to be disciplined and give my foot the time it needs. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 05 May, 2011, 02:24:07 pm
The inaugural Abingdon Parkrun (http://www.parkrun.org.uk/Abingdon/home) 5k is going to be held at 9am Saturday 7th May so I'm planning to give it a go
...
Nik:
Can you please clarify - do we need to printout and take our "personal barcode" with us?

EDIT: doh! Yes we do - all explained in the (huge) FAQ.

Started registering; bit puzzled by how they will use my "memorable phrase". Will it be like a nickname? Will I be stuck with it?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 05 May, 2011, 08:08:45 pm
The inaugural Abingdon Parkrun (http://www.parkrun.org.uk/Abingdon/home) 5k is going to be held at 9am Saturday 7th May so I'm planning to give it a go
...
Started registering; bit puzzled by how they will use my "memorable phrase". Will it be like a nickname? Will I be stuck with it?

"memorable phrase"  ???  don't remember anything about one of them
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 06 May, 2011, 08:30:47 am
Quote
Help with registration
Registration Page

...

Memorable Phrase

Please enter a word or phrase that we can use to uniquely identify you at our events in addition to your name. Remember this is not a password; it is visible to the volunteers who record your finish position at the events and is used to make sure we credit runs to the right runners. It should be a minimum of 5 letters. Please do not use your name or you local parkrun as a memorable phrase; we will already know this from the other questions.

I expect all will become clear on Saturday!

(I think I might go for RaminphrikeshDidIWin )
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 06 May, 2011, 11:12:01 am
Quote
Help with registration
Registration Page

...

Memorable Phrase

Please enter a word or phrase that we can use to uniquely identify you at our events in addition to your name. Remember this is not a password; it is visible to the volunteers who record your finish position at the events and is used to make sure we credit runs to the right runners. It should be a minimum of 5 letters. Please do not use your name or you local parkrun as a memorable phrase; we will already know this from the other questions.

I expect all will become clear on Saturday!

(I think I might go for RaminphrikeshDidIWin )

Phew found it in an email they sent me - bit of a funny website in that it doesn't seem to let you login to check/alter details.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: fuaran on 06 May, 2011, 10:48:07 pm
Can you please clarify - do we need to printout and take our "personal barcode" with us?

EDIT: doh! Yes we do - all explained in the (huge) FAQ.

Started registering; bit puzzled by how they will use my "memorable phrase". Will it be like a nickname? Will I be stuck with it?
You usually shouldn't have to use the memorable phrase. I think it's just in case there's a problem scanning your barcode, the phrase confirms who you are (and not someone else of the same name).
If you get the weekly parkrun newsletter it has a link to your profile, which lets your change your memorable phrase etc.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 07 May, 2011, 12:23:35 pm
Can you please clarify - do we need to printout and take our "personal barcode" with us?

EDIT: doh! Yes we do - all explained in the (huge) FAQ.

Started registering; bit puzzled by how they will use my "memorable phrase". Will it be like a nickname? Will I be stuck with it?
You usually shouldn't have to use the memorable phrase. I think it's just in case there's a problem scanning your barcode, the phrase confirms who you are (and not someone else of the same name).
If you get the weekly parkrun newsletter it has a link to your profile, which lets your change your memorable phrase etc.


Thanks fuaran, all became clear on the day - then it became rather soggy  :thumbsup:

Nik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 07 May, 2011, 06:07:10 pm
Results are up, Nik. Pretty shocking - took them at least 6 hours.

(And you still dont' appear to have won.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 07 May, 2011, 08:17:14 pm
Results are up, Nik. Pretty shocking - took them at least 6 hours.

(And you still dont' appear to have won.)

No but I was pleased to note those two lads that beat me are listed as 14 year olds not 9 year olds like I guessed.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 20 May, 2011, 10:24:24 pm
There's a post in here somewhere (or on yACF somewhere) about starting running that mentions the recommended rate of increase in distance etc - can anyone point me to it? Search failed.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: fuaran on 21 May, 2011, 03:14:49 am
There's a post in here somewhere (or on yACF somewhere) about starting running that mentions the recommended rate of increase in distance etc - can anyone point me to it? Search failed.
I'm not sure about the post you mean, but the usual advice for running is don't increase your milage by more than 10% each week. That should limit the risk of injury. See for example: The 10-Percent Rule (http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-238-267--1051-0,00.html)
Though obviously this is a rather general rule, and won't apply for everyone.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 21 May, 2011, 10:10:37 pm
I am back running again, and my stress fracture appears to be repaired. Did my normal 10km loop this week, kept is steady at 50 minutes. My thighs felt a little off, but with all the swimming and cycling, I am generally fitter.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 25 May, 2011, 06:41:23 pm
... and after a week of running every other day, I am pretty much back up to speed. It is amazing what being generally much fitter can do. I'd not been running for almost 8 weeks, and yet, with the baseline of training I had put down over winter, and with continuing to swim and cycle during those 8 weeks, it has taken less than a week to get back to where I was. Now, to start the hard work of improving on this...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 06 June, 2011, 02:34:04 pm
Did a local 8k race this weekend for a bit of fun. It's really too short a distance for me, considering the emphasis of my training is on endurance. Anyway, my time was 32.23 and I came 24th out of 512. Pretty good, considering.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jacomus on 08 June, 2011, 09:18:00 am
Nice times there FM

On Monday night I cracked out a 5.25k loop in 27m26s which I was pretty pleased with.

I'm still really struggling with the blisterception (a blister in a blister in a blister ::-) ) on the underneath of my right foot, on the edge of the arch just behind the ball of my foot - right where I land. The bloody skin is just not toughening up and it's really starting to piss me off as it is adding extra time to my runs, makes me run awkwardly every now and then and isn't much fun to have.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 08 June, 2011, 05:46:38 pm
blisterception

That is a condition I wish I'd never heard of! I will be paranoid about it happening to me now...

I hope it gets better, Jacomus.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 08 June, 2011, 06:53:45 pm
The inaugural Abingdon Parkrun (http://www.parkrun.org.uk/Abingdon/home) 5k is going to be held at 9am Saturday 7th May so I'm planning to give it a go (provided I'm not totally crippled by next weekends Brevet Cymru).

From what I can gather Parkruns are free, timed, 5 kilometre running events that seem to be such a great idea they are springing up all over the place. They are 'all comers' events but it's polite to let the organisers know if you expect to take more than 50 minutes.

Already loads in London and more local to me in Reading, Swindon and Milton Keynes (not that I've done any of these). It's sort of a local volunteers supported by strong national umbrella organisation set-up (bit like audax). You have to register (for free) on the Parkrun (http://www.parkrun.com/home) website and get your barcode which works for any location.

Did my first one on Saturday. (thanks to Nik & other helpers!). Numbers were down to 30-odd, but I gather there were competing events locally that day.

I trudged round in about 29min (5km-ish). This is my longest run without knee twinges in months. Kept my pace right down - at that heart rate I can cycle for at least 24hours! (Quite a useful exercise, as that is 4hour marathon pace.) So something to base future exertions on, as my knee (hopefully) becomes more reliable with more mileage.

although I expected to be near last, I wasn't prepared for how fast the pack pulled away from me. Running pathetically slowly feels a lot slower than cycling pathetically slowly.

A really nice event - like a time trial without all the kit envy! (Although we did have a nerdy chat about 'barefoot' running technology in the caff).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jacomus on 10 June, 2011, 11:34:24 am
This running lark is pretty fun, though I have hit a problem - how should I be landing my feet?

There is a lot of stuff out there promoting landing on the ball/middle of the foot, which is what I tend to do. However, there is also a lot of stuff saying land on the heel and roll your foot through the step.

Has anyone got any advice?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 10 June, 2011, 11:54:44 am
There was quite a lot of discussion about this way back in the thread:
Cross Training: Running (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=58.msg548043#msg548043)

You could also google some of:
POSE
barefoot
forefoot
minimalist shoes

... with running. Set aside a few days to digest!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 10 June, 2011, 01:55:41 pm
This running lark is pretty fun, though I have hit a problem - how should I be landing my feet?

There is a lot of stuff out there promoting landing on the ball/middle of the foot, which is what I tend to do. However, there is also a lot of stuff saying land on the heel and roll your foot through the step.

The emerging standard seems to be to go mid-foot. The previous generation of trainers were designed for lazy, inefficient back-foot running, and there are extremists at the other end who believe we should all be fore-foot running, but most people seem to find that the mid-foot style works - it does for me. I deliberately run fore-foot sometimes for training purposes, and cyclists should be able to do this more easily than runners, actually. The thing is, that it is a result of a combination of personal physiolgy, practice and training. If you really want to get it right, you should have your gait assessed by a qualified coach or trainer, and go from there.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jacomus on 13 June, 2011, 04:13:48 pm
This running lark is pretty fun, though I have hit a problem - how should I be landing my feet?

There is a lot of stuff out there promoting landing on the ball/middle of the foot, which is what I tend to do. However, there is also a lot of stuff saying land on the heel and roll your foot through the step.

The emerging standard seems to be to go mid-foot. The previous generation of trainers were designed for lazy, inefficient back-foot running, and there are extremists at the other end who believe we should all be fore-foot running, but most people seem to find that the mid-foot style works - it does for me. I deliberately run fore-foot sometimes for training purposes, and cyclists should be able to do this more easily than runners, actually. The thing is, that it is a result of a combination of personal physiolgy, practice and training. If you really want to get it right, you should have your gait assessed by a qualified coach or trainer, and go from there.

I am thinking of booking into a gait analysis session as a Runners Need has just opened close to where I work.

I've thought more about how I'm landing and practised a 5k run landing on my heels. It didn't work very well - I could feel a quick surge of pressure under my kneecap on every strike, that went away to be replaced by the pressure surge being felt in my calves and thighs when I reverted to my normal mid-foot plant.

I've decided that since a short stride mid-foot plant is what I do without thinking and doesn't leave me with sore knees, I'm probably onto a winner and should't change anything.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 13 June, 2011, 04:31:21 pm
This running lark is pretty fun, though I have hit a problem - how should I be landing my feet?

There is a lot of stuff out there promoting landing on the ball/middle of the foot, which is what I tend to do. However, there is also a lot of stuff saying land on the heel and roll your foot through the step.

The emerging standard seems to be to go mid-foot. The previous generation of trainers were designed for lazy, inefficient back-foot running, and there are extremists at the other end who believe we should all be fore-foot running, but most people seem to find that the mid-foot style works - it does for me. I deliberately run fore-foot sometimes for training purposes, and cyclists should be able to do this more easily than runners, actually. The thing is, that it is a result of a combination of personal physiolgy, practice and training. If you really want to get it right, you should have your gait assessed by a qualified coach or trainer, and go from there.

I am thinking of booking into a gait analysis session as a Runners Need has just opened close to where I work.

I've thought more about how I'm landing and practised a 5k run landing on my heels. It didn't work very well - I could feel a quick surge of pressure under my kneecap on every strike, that went away to be replaced by the pressure surge being felt in my calves and thighs when I reverted to my normal mid-foot plant.

I've decided that since a short stride mid-foot plant is what I do without thinking and doesn't leave me with sore knees, I'm probably onto a winner and should't change anything.

Good thinking.  Over-striding, which is encouraged by heelfoot strike, gives increased risk of shin splints, highly undesirable, and a shorter stride tends to encourage a faster cadence which is said to be more efficient (~180 spm seems about optimum).

Good running!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 26 June, 2011, 11:18:07 pm
Hmm. Well I got 18 hours into my non-stop triathlon, but after 3 two-hour running sessions my knees couldn't take anymore, even though I had been running very, very slowly. I guess it was a combination of running on concrete pavements and the fact that my knees just aren't capable of taking that kind of punishment any more because of all those years of football and judo. This means I am really going to have to give up on any ideas of marathons or Ironman. The swimming, on the other hand, was great. But that's for another thread...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 03 July, 2011, 10:33:37 pm
Hmm. Well I got 18 hours into my non-stop triathlon, but after 3 two-hour running sessions my knees couldn't take anymore, even though I had been running very, very slowly. I guess it was a combination of running on concrete pavements and the fact that my knees just aren't capable of taking that kind of punishment any more because of all those years of football and judo. This means I am really going to have to give up on any ideas of marathons or Ironman. The swimming, on the other hand, was great. But that's for another thread...

Impressive achievement nonetheless, well done.

Right - I've just been out for my first run in the best part of 2 decades. Even prior to that I've done very little since leaving school, where I was a crap cross country runner - obligatory for those averse to rugby or hockey.
Why?
- I feel the need to be able to burn some calories more conveniently or predictably than I can on the bike.
- I feel the need just to check that I can still actually run.
- I might, just might, do a bike / ru duathlon thing with a colleague from work. The minimum run distance is 5km; 10 km is   totally unchartered territory for me.

So - 2.5 km according to gmapspedometer, no hills but gentle rises / fall, in 15:46 - but that includes walking to the end of the street. And getting in and out of the flat. Still, it's 10 minutes a mile  :-[

Felt ok - definitely could have run further. Felt that my breathing wasn't keeping up with me after 500 m or so, but I suggested to myself that if I slowed down a bit this might improve, and it did. So it was a sort of jog, really, at a pace that I could maintain, while I tried to remind myself or learn what sort of posture works well, how to place my feet etc. Mild "stitch" about half way that went away and returned a bit towards the end when I picked up the pace a little.

Pains: lower part of calf muscle on both sides feels pretty tired; top part of shins on the outsides.

So - increase the distance or increase the pace?
And can someone suggest a few not too time-consuming post run stretches?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jacomus on 04 July, 2011, 11:28:02 am
Hmm. Well I got 18 hours into my non-stop triathlon, but after 3 two-hour running sessions my knees couldn't take anymore, even though I had been running very, very slowly. I guess it was a combination of running on concrete pavements and the fact that my knees just aren't capable of taking that kind of punishment any more because of all those years of football and judo. This means I am really going to have to give up on any ideas of marathons or Ironman. The swimming, on the other hand, was great. But that's for another thread...

Impressive achievement nonetheless, well done.

Right - I've just been out for my first run in the best part of 2 decades. Even prior to that I've done very little since leaving school, where I was a crap cross country runner - obligatory for those averse to rugby or hockey.
Why?
- I feel the need to be able to burn some calories more conveniently or predictably than I can on the bike.
- I feel the need just to check that I can still actually run.
- I might, just might, do a bike / ru duathlon thing with a colleague from work. The minimum run distance is 5km; 10 km is   totally unchartered territory for me.

So - 2.5 km according to gmapspedometer, no hills but gentle rises / fall, in 15:46 - but that includes walking to the end of the street. And getting in and out of the flat. Still, it's 10 minutes a mile  :-[

Felt ok - definitely could have run further. Felt that my breathing wasn't keeping up with me after 500 m or so, but I suggested to myself that if I slowed down a bit this might improve, and it did. So it was a sort of jog, really, at a pace that I could maintain, while I tried to remind myself or learn what sort of posture works well, how to place my feet etc. Mild "stitch" about half way that went away and returned a bit towards the end when I picked up the pace a little.

Pains: lower part of calf muscle on both sides feels pretty tired; top part of shins on the outsides.

So - increase the distance or increase the pace?
And can someone suggest a few not too time-consuming post run stretches?

Neither!!

Stick to the same run for a good 2 weeks and forget about the pace, it will slowly rise all by itself.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 04 July, 2011, 02:32:09 pm
Neither!!

Stick to the same run for a good 2 weeks and forget about the pace, it will slowly rise all by itself.

Seems reasonable - since posting the above I've had a quick scan of programmes on t'web and there are lots of dire warnings about avoiding doing too much too soon and allowing the bones and joints to adapt.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jurek on 04 July, 2011, 02:35:59 pm
Top tip for avoiding bone and joint grief = run on grass while you build up your strength - it's a lot easier on the joints than running on roads.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jacomus on 04 July, 2011, 03:06:52 pm
Top tip for avoiding bone and joint grief = run on grass while you build up your strength - it's a lot easier on the joints than running on roads.

Having read the same thing, when I re-started running, I actually found the opposite was true.

I found the uneven footing and effort of stabilising my feet running on grass in the park was much more wearing on the ankles and uncomfortable on the knees than running on the smooth flat tarmac of the path round park.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jurek on 04 July, 2011, 03:11:55 pm
Granted - it takes well maintained turf - think footy or cricket pitch, or the grass in the centre of an athletics track.

Hareing across Richmond Park is probably not easy on the joints.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 04 July, 2011, 03:49:57 pm
Top tip for avoiding bone and joint grief = run on grass while you build up your strength - it's a lot easier on the joints than running on roads.

Having read the same thing, when I re-started running, I actually found the opposite was true.

I found the uneven footing and effort of stabilising my feet running on grass in the park was much more wearing on the ankles and uncomfortable on the knees than running on the smooth flat tarmac of the path round park.

If they're not used to it, your legs won't thank you at first. But - in theory - overall wear should be much less on the softer surface.  People say they can tell the difference between tarmac and concrete in this respect. And running on that uneven surface will strengthen all the lidl balance muscles, making you less injury-prone in the long run.

Until you turn an ankle on a divet.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Flying_Monkey on 05 July, 2011, 06:41:32 pm
5th (out of 90 odd) in my local 10k on Sunday. It was an extraordinarily hot and humid day so no-one was running PBs, and also considering this was only a week after I'd done 18 hours of non-stop triathlon and had to pull out with knee problems, I was quite happy with 43.00 minutes dead.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 06 July, 2011, 08:50:27 pm
Added a few hundred metres to tonight's second outing - more in search of better pavements than anything - and felt pretty comfortable - seems to be all about controlling the pace to let my breathing keep up. 3.2 km - forgot to time it  ::-)

I need to rejig the route again - woeful footpaths with lots of roots pushing up in some parts - might find a 5 km loop and get used to it for a few weeks.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Bigsybaby on 15 July, 2011, 03:37:32 pm
Last year my personal Trainer got me running until I damaged my hamstrings. The physio asked why I was running. It does nothing for cyclists
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 15 July, 2011, 04:26:46 pm
Last year my personal Trainer got me running until I damaged my hamstrings. The physio asked why I was running. It does nothing for cyclists
It makes them better runners.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jakob on 12 September, 2011, 10:13:11 pm
Has anyone here done any 'barefoot' running? I've just picked up a pair of Vibram Fivefingers shoes and will also use them for running. (although we rarely run more than 800meters at a time).
 I am already somewhat used to running in bare feet, as we run/jog as part of our kendo warm-up and although it's short (and indoors), we still have to land on the front part of the foot.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: loadsabikes on 12 September, 2011, 10:16:58 pm
Land on the FRONT part of the foot???
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jakob on 13 September, 2011, 01:12:23 am
Land on the FRONT part of the foot???

http://vimeo.com/12551218
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 13 September, 2011, 12:13:36 pm
Has anyone here done any 'barefoot' running?
This was a hot topic back in ... err hang on... Feb 2010 on this very thread!

(and going by web forums and people I meet, the idea isn't going away)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jakob on 13 September, 2011, 05:24:38 pm
Has anyone here done any 'barefoot' running?
This was a hot topic back in ... err hang on... Feb 2010 on this very thread!

(and going by web forums and people I meet, the idea isn't going away)

Aha!. Well, apologies for not reading all 40 pages first :). It's unlikely that I'll every run much beyond 2.4k (Longest distance we usually run in Crossfit).
 Andy, are you still at it in the vff's?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jakob on 15 September, 2011, 04:25:30 am
Haha..bailed out of the vff's today when I realized that todays workout included 4x800m running (with other stuff inbetween). I may actually have to do some running outside the gym (gasp!) to get used to these.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 26 September, 2011, 11:10:35 am
Back to the treadmill again today. Ugh. At least I can start again at just 20 minutes at 10.5kph.

I predict DOMS tomorrow although I'll try to ward it off with lots of stretching before/after.

My plan (once again) is to build up to running to/from work once a week (10.5km each way).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 26 September, 2011, 04:05:00 pm
Ugh, but at least my HR was lower than it was back in March (last time I was regularly using the work treadmill).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 26 September, 2011, 04:56:19 pm
Compression calf guards made a big difference to DOMS for me.  Am trying to run 3 times / week and (touch wood), all good so far .
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Barnsdale on 09 October, 2011, 07:31:33 pm
A first and a second for me this weekend:

First Parkrun (Wormwood Scrubs, which is only a little one!)

Second proper run (other than little jogs to the shops) in my Merrell Barefoots. (feet?)

The soles of the Merrells are made by Vibram but you don't get the toes thing - I am really liking them so far.  My calves have recovered a lot quicker than after my 6km gentle run 2 weeks ago.  I could become a convert to this barefoot thing and I rather like the Parkrun idea, which I've only just discovered. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Barnsdale on 09 October, 2011, 07:35:22 pm
And on a somewhat different sub-topic:

For those who say the Cross training doesn't work, I did the 105km ride of the falling leaves last weekend, with my only training on the bike being my 10km commute and a couple of 20km extensions to it in 6 weeks, the only other ride this year being 45 km.  However, I've been keeping the running going with a 7-10km run at least once a week. 

I kept up with the faster riders until the hills kicked in, then waited for my supposedly more cycling fit friend and dragged him round the rest of the course, feeling that I could have easily knocked 15 mins off my time.  I felt rather better than I had a right to, given how little time I've spent on the bike.  So Cross training works for me, but then I'm not training particularly hard at any one discipline. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 10 October, 2011, 10:46:56 am
For those who say the Cross training doesn't work, I did the 105km ride of the falling leaves last weekend, with my only training on the bike being my 10km commute and a couple of 20km extensions to it in 6 weeks, the only other ride this year being 45 km.  However, I've been keeping the running going with a 7-10km run at least once a week. 
Not many people doubt that SOME of the training effect transfers. Unfortunately your data doesn't prove much.
For example, there is no control data; have you ridden that 105km with the same training, minus the running?

The (main) question is: would you have been faster, had you spent ALL that training time on the bike?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Barnsdale on 10 October, 2011, 09:35:12 pm
Of course, it's completely unscientific and my "evidence" is anecdotal. 

I'm not sure how you equate training effort between running and cycling.  But in practical terms, I can do a harder session in less time on foot than on the bike, because living in London means that it takes time to get to somewhere where I can have decent blast on the bike. 

Also anecdotally, I feel that my core body strength is better since I started running (and swimming) and I don't suffer some of the back and shoulder aches that I used to get after 2 or 3 hours in the saddle. 

I'm not a competitive specialist cyclist anyway (the most competitive events I've done have been triathlons) and if I were, my approach might be different.  But for people who don't have a lot of time for training in events where aerobic efficiency counts for more than having developed the right muscular strength/endurance, I think cross training's benefits would outweigh the advantages of specialising. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jakob on 04 November, 2011, 06:24:26 am
More barefoot running preaching:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/magazine/running-christopher-mcdougall.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 04 November, 2011, 05:49:03 pm
More barefoot running preaching:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/06/magazine/running-christopher-mcdougall.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1

Good article, thanks for the link. I feel some precision tippy-toe running on the spot training coming on (I think that's what '100-Up' amounts to, simple but makes good sense).

Probably mentioned elsewhere in this thread but worth repeating that Christopher McDougall's Born to Run (http://www.chrismcdougall.com/) is really recommended for anyone inquisitive about the barefoot running thing, not just informative but a good read too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 23 December, 2011, 03:26:13 pm
I've started running/jogging recently. Never been a great runner as have always been heavy at 16.5st+
Now at 15st I'm finding it a lot easier, I have signed up with the parkrun website as the local run is only 1km away  :thumbsup:
3.5km and a 4km jog last week. This morning did just under 26mins for my first ever 5km

Looking at keeping this up and am thinking about a half marathon the 1st weekend in March.
With the idea of only 10% increase a week is this feasible?

Rich
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: jezzasnr on 23 December, 2011, 05:32:14 pm
Keep the weight coming off as you have, then it's very much feasible.
Have shed a large pile of belly recently, I've been quite surprised at how much easier it's gotten. Speed & distance up, HR down. Physics init!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 01 January, 2012, 06:14:26 pm
I've started running/jogging recently. Never been a great runner as have always been heavy at 16.5st+

Me too. But I still can't run for even 20 minutes solidly, and my knee really hurts if I run or even walk for too long.
How long is it supposed to take from utterly sedentary to being able to run (say) 10k?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 02 January, 2012, 12:09:22 pm
All the stuff I've read says to increase the distance by 10% a week, I was up to 6km on Friday.
Went out today and felt ok at 6km so kept going, managed to do my first 10  :thumbsup: and in under an hr!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 02 January, 2012, 04:06:34 pm
All the stuff I've read says to increase the distance by 10% a week, I was up to 6km on Friday.
Went out today and felt ok at 6km so kept going, managed to do my first 10  :thumbsup: and in under an hr!!

Well done Rich  :thumbsup:

(Perhaps a couple of days recovery next before you find out why they only recomend 10% increase per week  ;))
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 02 January, 2012, 04:17:39 pm
I've started running/jogging recently. Never been a great runner as have always been heavy at 16.5st+

Me too. But I still can't run for even 20 minutes solidly, and my knee really hurts if I run or even walk for too long.
How long is it supposed to take from utterly sedentary to being able to run (say) 10k?

Well if you'd settle for 5k there's the Couch to 5k (http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_3/181.shtml) plan which takes about 2 months - it'll take loads longer if you don't give the knee time to recover first though.

It can be slow work learning to run comfortably, we can't all be Rich.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 02 January, 2012, 04:34:57 pm
I plan to do 3 runs a week, Tue - Thurs and 1 at the weekend. Last run was Friday so I had chance to do one today. Will not run again until Thursday now.
Don't know if it helped but I ran with compression tights on today, may all be in the mind  ;D
Hope to get to a reasonable distance before the MK half marathon I've just signed up for in March  :o

Rich
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 02 January, 2012, 09:07:52 pm
I plan to do 3 runs a week, Tue - Thurs and 1 at the weekend. Last run was Friday so I had chance to do one today. Will not run again until Thursday now.
Don't know if it helped but I ran with compression tights on today, may all be in the mind  ;D
Hope to get to a reasonable distance before the MK half marathon I've just signed up for in March  :o

Rich

Sounds like you're well on target for the MK Half. If you can get it up to 11 miles by a couple of weeks before without damaging yourself then have an easy weekend taper I reckon you'll be round in under 2 hours.

I got an unplanned PB there last year - just entered for this year before it fills up, I've gone and entered the new MK marathon so it'll be good training.

(Last year's subjective waffle here (http://gastroplodder.vegebear.com/blog/2011/milton-keynes-half-2011/).)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 02 January, 2012, 10:35:06 pm
I've gone and entered the new MK marathon so it'll be good training.

You can join Mr Abraham and AndyM from here on that one then  :thumbsup:
I'm not that daft, yet  ;D maybe next year  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Chris S on 03 January, 2012, 10:40:03 am
I'm continuing to stand by what the consultant at the N&N Hospital said to me when I did my knee in three years ago:

"Your knee looks fine, but in case you are planning on taking up running - here's my advice. Don't."

I jogged alongside fboab at the weekend - to show support and solidarity you understand - and my knee was immediately complaining. Cycling and rowing will have to do.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 03 January, 2012, 07:06:54 pm
I've gone and entered the new MK marathon so it'll be good training.

You can join Mr Abraham and AndyM from here on that one then  :thumbsup:
I'm not that daft, yet  ;D maybe next year  ;)

Ah right - so when I hear the sound of hob-nail boots closing fast from behind I'll know who's about to leave me for dust  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 03 January, 2012, 07:11:33 pm
Entering a marathon sounds very daft.

I took Google and Squidge round Cheddar reservoir this evening and ran (jogged) two laps. Was a bit slow due in particular to taking a phone call on the second lap. Fastest km split was 6:38, last year I ran 1.8km in that sort of time. 7.19km including the walking bit took 56:23.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 10 January, 2012, 02:13:09 pm
13km on Sunday, legs not aching so this morning did just over 16km.
10 miles in 1.33hrs, Definitely on course for the 1/2.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 10 January, 2012, 02:23:58 pm
Wow.
In more beginners' style, I managed 2km where I ran more than I walked. Of such small steps are great journeys begun.

It's less boring than rowing or the turbo, which is the most positive thing I can yet come up with about my 'running'.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jedrik on 10 January, 2012, 04:11:50 pm
It can be slow work learning to run comfortably, we can't all be Rich.
A few of us might, though.
From what I have heard from others, too: It is a recumbent thing. Riding a recumbent seems to train lots of the same muscles as running, so you can go from zero to quite impressive distances in a comparatively short time. And vice versa: Runners do really well on recumbents without suffering so much while "adapting".
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 10 January, 2012, 04:31:19 pm
I was thinking the same thing.
When I tried running yrs ago I was getting a lot of pain in my shins.
Riding the recumbent works this muscle, to the extent they are quite noticeable when you flex them.

Keep at it Lindsay, it will get easier.

Rich
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 10 January, 2012, 04:40:08 pm
I wonder if this idea will catch on in Triathlon world ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 10 January, 2012, 06:47:33 pm
It can be slow work learning to run comfortably, we can't all be Rich.
A few of us might, though.
From what I have heard from others, too: It is a recumbent thing. Riding a recumbent seems to train lots of the same muscles as running, so you can go from zero to quite impressive distances in a comparatively short time. And vice versa: Runners do really well on recumbents without suffering so much while "adapting".
This does have a ring of truth - there's something about recumbent riders position that resembles running, at least on the more laid back ones.

Keep it up Rich, I'm reckoning you'll be running the 13.1 miles in training well before the event at this rate!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 21 January, 2012, 02:19:01 pm
Did the MK Parkrun today, followed TG around but couldn't catch him.
Legs were starting to slow on the last 2km, fastest 5km I've managed though in 25.50
Great turnout for the 2nd anniversary of the run here.

Official time was 25.34 "You finished in 106th place and were the 90th gent out of a field of 297 parkrunners and you came 19th in your age category VM40-44"
Next target is under 25mins!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 22 January, 2012, 03:32:01 pm
Did the MK Parkrun today, followed TG around but couldn't catch him.
Legs were starting to slow on the last 2km, fastest 5km I've managed though in 25.50
Great turnout for the 2nd anniversary of the run here.

Official time was 25.34 "You finished in 106th place and were the 90th gent out of a field of 297 parkrunners and you came 19th in your age category VM40-44"
Next target is under 25mins!!

I reckon you'll be under 25 minutes soon enough but catching TG ... hmmm!

I volunteered at Oxford parkrun instead of running as planned yesterday as wanted to let my knee get properly better after I bashed it falling off my bike on Wednesday, managed a knackering but pleasant hilly 10 mile trail run today though so back on track.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: trixie on 31 January, 2012, 11:07:20 am
I've a place in the Great Bentley (nr Colchester) half-marathon this Sunday. Never done it before but it's a big event with 100s of runners.  Anyone else in? or done it before?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 02 February, 2012, 03:31:58 pm
First 5km walk/jog of the year today!  Didn't feel too puggled at the end of it either....  No doubt I'll be sair tomorrow though....   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: bloomers100 on 02 February, 2012, 03:39:27 pm
I've a place in the Great Bentley (nr Colchester) half-marathon this Sunday. Never done it before but it's a big event with 100s of runners.  Anyone else in? or done it before?

Nope but doing the Colchester half on 11th march.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 03 February, 2012, 10:21:29 am
I've a place in the Great Bentley (nr Colchester) half-marathon this Sunday. Never done it before but it's a big event with 100s of runners.  Anyone else in? or done it before?

I've never done it but the Runners World reviews reckon flat, fast and well organised which reflects a club mates report on it I read a couple of years ago. Fancy dress as an Eskimo might be in order  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 03 February, 2012, 10:24:24 am
First 5km walk/jog of the year today!  Didn't feel too puggled at the end of it either....  No doubt I'll be sair tomorrow though....   :thumbsup:
Just trying to persuade myself to get out there for a few miles cross country, temperatures almost up to minus 2!  I don't mind the cold legs and stuff - it's all that huffing and puffing sub-zero air that gets me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 03 February, 2012, 12:06:13 pm
It's not too bad today once you get going  ;D
I've just looked at my log for January, 102km cycling 107km running!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 03 February, 2012, 02:46:37 pm
If I can face the bike ride over there, tomorrow's parkrun should be lovely and mud-free  :thumbsup:

[I'll probably turn an ankle on the hard ground ...  ::-)   ]

I don't mind the cold air, but then I don't really run fast enough to be truly gasping - it's really my legs holding me back at this stage, not my heart+lungs. I've always liked running in the cold, much less hassle than cycling - this is a big reason for trying to get back into it, especially in the light of   numerous dodgy wheels-vs-ice moments in recent winters.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 03 February, 2012, 06:51:06 pm
Likewise I'll drag myself to Oxford parkrun if the ride there doesn't seem that unreasonable at 8am tomorrow.

Great run in the cold and sun today when I eventually got out there - sort of compensation for an old man run yesterday  :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gandalf on 04 February, 2012, 02:13:15 pm
I've decided to have a go at running again, my weight loss is going OK but now I'm 10.5 lbs away from target  it is getting tough.  I think a change of tack is called for.

I think the only way I'm likely to do this is to run to work.  Thing is how to carry my stuff?

The stuff in question is a large bunch of keys, a mobile phone. ID card on lanyard  and my lunch.  My lunch typically consists of one large banana, one apple and three tangerines/satsumas.

Might want to take my ipod as well.

Do they do bum bags suitable for this little lot or am I looking at some sort of back pack?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: fuaran on 04 February, 2012, 04:55:52 pm
Do they do bum bags suitable for this little lot or am I looking at some sort of back pack?
The sort of bum bags used for hill running should do. eg Inov8 or OMM have a few styles and sizes. This kind of thing: http://www.peteblandsports.co.uk/trolleyed/12/17/161/index.htm
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 04 February, 2012, 05:42:03 pm
I've decided to have a go at running again, my weight loss is going OK but now I'm 10.5 lbs away from target  it is getting tough.  I think a change of tack is called for.

I think the only way I'm likely to do this is to run to work.  Thing is how to carry my stuff?

The stuff in question is a large bunch of keys, a mobile phone. ID card on lanyard  and my lunch.  My lunch typically consists of one large banana, one apple and three tangerines/satsumas.

Might want to take my ipod as well.

Do they do bum bags suitable for this little lot or am I looking at some sort of back pack?

Think I'd be tempted to leave a mountain of fruit at work once a week then just carry the bare minimum in a small running bum bag. I've got a running bum bag/bottle carrier and a small hydro backpack but really prefer not to use them unless I have to due to sweaty bits and bumping about.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 04 February, 2012, 05:59:09 pm
Apparently it was -7'c as I rode to today's parkrun - seems about right, as my breath had frozen in my buff by the time I started running! Lovely conditions for the actual run though.

Finally trusted my aging legs enough to run 'fastish' (as opposed to 'steady') from the off. Thankfully no twinges, and a PB (24:30 according to the MattC electronic timing system). Pretty knackered.

Nice to finally get below my 10mile bike time! Still a good minute behind Nik on the same course - oh well, something to aim for  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 04 February, 2012, 06:17:05 pm
Apparently it was -7'c as I rode to today's parkrun - seems about right, as my breath had frozen in my buff by the time I started running! Lovely conditions for the actual run though.

Finally trusted my aging legs enough to run 'fastish' (as opposed to 'steady') from the off. Thankfully no twinges, and a PB (24:30 according to the MattC electronic timing system). Pretty knackered.

Nice to finally get below my 10mile bike time! Still a good minute behind Nik on the same course - oh well, something to aim for  ::-)

Yes -7.8 when I left home at 8:15 - reckon it was a balmy minus 3 in the sunshine for the run. My second slowest to date I think but enjoyed it. Were you late again then Matt?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 04 February, 2012, 06:36:16 pm
How dare you sir!!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 04 February, 2012, 06:42:14 pm
How dare you sir!!!
If you're running next Saturday you should definitely beat my time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 04 February, 2012, 06:52:56 pm
Half-marathon?!?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 04 February, 2012, 07:09:42 pm
Half-marathon?!?

Ox parkrun tail-runner  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: trixie on 05 February, 2012, 01:29:39 pm
Great Bentley half postponed! Will have to go through the agony another day...had a great walk in the snowy woods today though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 06 February, 2012, 05:49:04 pm
Great Bentley half postponed! Will have to go through the agony another day...had a great walk in the snowy woods today though.

If the snow there was anything like Oxford I wouldn't of fancied racing in it, looks like they've rescheduled for 25th March so not too long to wait. Similar happened with the February Wokingham half a couple of years back and we ended up running on a baking hot day in the middle of Summer instead.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 07 February, 2012, 06:50:52 am
Another jogwithlesswalk yesterday, 38 minutes for 5k!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 07 February, 2012, 02:30:36 pm
Suffering with ankle pain since I started running again after a year+ break. I've been trying to switch to a more midfoot strike in an effort to avoid the injuries that plague me when I run. Google suggests that this is normal for people who switch - anyone else experienced anything similar? Haven't run for several days, and just did 11km at lunch. Still slow and achy up to 7km, but then felt much better. It does feel more natural to me - so much so, I can't remember how I used to run before.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 07 February, 2012, 02:40:57 pm
11km sounds like a very long run for someone out of practice. :(

Of course many people would be fine, but why invite trouble?

It is certainly normal to feel achey calves if you move away from heelstrike, because the muscle does a lot more work - but I've never heard of ankle pain. My instinct is always to think that joint pain is bad. (muscle pain - not necessarily).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 07 February, 2012, 07:01:56 pm
Done 80km since Jan 18th, so have worked up to it. Also, its more of an ache than pain. There's a fair bit out  there on changing to a mid sole strike and achy ankles, so I'm not worried. Just wondering how soon it will pass. Today was much better than the last two 10kms.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 08 February, 2012, 12:31:56 pm
Erm, easy online entries has just got me signed up for the Abingdon Marathon in Oct!!
Always liked the idea of doing one, so now looks like the time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Chris S on 08 February, 2012, 03:48:30 pm
I am now on week three of the Couch to 5K programme.

The good news: My knee seems fine with the idea, as long as I'm on the treadmills at the gym.

The bad news: I'm still shit at running.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: recumbentim on 08 February, 2012, 03:51:08 pm
Erm, easy online entries has just got me signed up for the Abingdon Marathon in Oct!!
Always liked the idea of doing one, so now looks like the time.
Nutter!!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 08 February, 2012, 04:01:40 pm
Done 80km since Jan 18th, so have worked up to it. Also, its more of an ache than pain. There's a fair bit out  there on changing to a mid sole strike and achy ankles, so I'm not worried. Just wondering how soon it will pass. Today was much better than the last two 10kms.
Ah, righty-ho. Well I didn't know about ankle pains, but I did get achey calves for quite a while. So I can't really help you  :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 08 February, 2012, 05:51:48 pm
Erm, easy online entries has just got me signed up for the Abingdon Marathon in Oct!!
Always liked the idea of doing one, so now looks like the time.

See you there  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Pippa on 08 February, 2012, 05:56:23 pm
I am now on week three of the Couch to 5K programme.

The good news: My knee seems fine with the idea, as long as I'm on the treadmills at the gym.

The bad news: I'm still shit at running.

I'm doing that as well. I've just done week 5 run 1. This is probably the longest I've ever consistently stuck at running which is a surprise. I don't hate it as much as I used to, but I still don't like it much. So far, no shin splints or hip issues or anything too hurty. Whoop. But I can barely call what I do running. It is not even jogging. I am so S L O W....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 09 February, 2012, 11:28:19 am
Just ordered some Terra Plana Neos, and have been doing the 100-up drill. Going to take it very easy and rotate between my normal shoes and these for a bit, see how I get on.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 09 February, 2012, 01:43:56 pm
I've just read something in the parkrun newsletter about weight loss vs times. He reckoned he knocked 7secs off his 5k times for every pound lost, and that this is the same figure quoted by [some famous writing runner].

I read somewhere else that energy required to run is roughly linear with body weight. So if you change weight without gaining/losing any power/fitness, then a 14st runner taking 25min to run 5k, would hope to gain ....
yup, about 7secs per pound lost!

(Someone check my maths, but it's probably right). It can't really be a perfect linear relationship, but it's nice when these rough rules-of-thumb turn out to be pretty close to reality.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 10 February, 2012, 08:38:33 am
There's a calculator (among others) on this site that shows the same.
http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/diet/weighteffect
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 11 February, 2012, 10:33:43 am
Did the MK Parkrun today, followed TG around but couldn't catch him.
Legs were starting to slow on the last 2km, fastest 5km I've managed though in 25.50
Great turnout for the 2nd anniversary of the run here.

Official time was 25.34 "You finished in 106th place and were the 90th gent out of a field of 297 parkrunners and you came 19th in your age category VM40-44"
Next target is under 25mins!!

Looking at the splits from today's run on my phone I did it in just under 24mins!
Will have to wait for the official time though.
Was fun today with a good turnout despite the -14 temp by the lake!!

Edit: Official time of 24.13. Not under 24 but still good for an icy run :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 11 February, 2012, 10:58:17 am
Well done Rich :thumbsup:

We had about half the usual turnout at Oxford but it was great jogging round as tail runner. I did 12 miles yesterday so it was sort of an enforced 'recovery run'. Pretty sure the last chap scraped in under 35min which would be a PB so he was well chuffed if a little knackered. Oxford was mostly in a couple of inches of snow so bit slippy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 19 February, 2012, 05:15:03 pm
Got a PB again this week of 23.33, it will start to get harder now  ;D
Today was the longest run so far at 20.1km in 1hr47 Looks like an under 2hr 1/2 is on the cards all going well :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 20 February, 2012, 05:22:40 pm
Got a PB again this week of 23.33, it will start to get harder now  ;D
Today was the longest run so far at 20.1km in 1hr47 Looks like an under 2hr 1/2 is on the cards all going well :thumbsup:

I managed a 40sec PB at Wokingham Half yesterday, 1:44:03. Last few miles felt very hard work so doubt I'll be much faster at MK - think you need to stop slacking and make sure you beat me round Rich  ;D

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 22 February, 2012, 05:18:48 pm
I've been banned.
Quote from: The Physio
Absolutely NO running or anything high impact


I'd say it was fun while it lasted but that would be a lie.
Unfortunately nothing is as free-of-charge and doable-from-your-front-door as running, but if anyone has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them. Other than cycling, which even if off-road with drops, does not really count as cross training.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 22 February, 2012, 05:41:31 pm
swim? Dull as hell but quite good for getting some solo 'thinking time'.  What about brisk walking with a backpack?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 22 February, 2012, 08:38:20 pm
Swimming is allowed, encouraged even, but neither free nor doable from my front door. It doesn't really burn enough calories, either (does it?)  I'm fairly sure the physio (& my hip & knee) would object to walking with a pack, but I'll ask her next week.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 23 February, 2012, 06:39:50 am
Have you though of speed/race walking? It's supposed to be low impact but can still be pretty cardio and can be quite fast.

Like this (but maybe not those shorts).

http://youtu.be/wct-I9UgOpg
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 23 February, 2012, 08:06:28 am
Swimming is allowed, encouraged even, but neither free nor doable from my front door. It doesn't really burn enough calories, either (does it?)  I'm fairly sure the physio (& my hip & knee) would object to walking with a pack, but I'll ask her next week.
I think swimming is one of those sports that CAN burn tons of energy, once you're reasonably good at it (I'm not, but most people are, I suspect).

"aggresive walking" is sort of medium-impact. I know I can walk 30 miles without problems, but an hour's running (or less) has been problematic ever since I broke my ankles (years and years ago). YMMV. Good luck
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 23 February, 2012, 09:11:43 am
I think swimming is one of those sports that CAN burn tons of energy..
otherwise sedentary people put on a swimming regime gained weight, compared to those given other exercise to do.

I fear that'd be me. Running never made me hungry, but cycling and swimming do.
I might investigate the leisure centre here in Fetfud. I could maybe run round the pool...

Can you get waterproof mp3 players & headphones?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: trixie on 23 February, 2012, 09:26:38 am

I think swimming is one of those sports that CAN burn tons of energy..
otherwise sedentary people put on a swimming regime gained weight, compared to those given other exercise to do.

I fear that'd be me. Running never made me hungry, but cycling and swimming do.
I might investigate the leisure centre here in Fetfud. I could maybe run round the pool...

Can you get waterproof mp3 players & headphones?

Speedo aquabeat waterproof MP3 - I came across someone using these at the early morning swim session.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 29 February, 2012, 01:04:30 pm
Did my first run (5.5km) in my Vivabarefoot Neos today. I could feel a lot (a bit too much on a flinty path), and I now have a sense of what my big toe is for. I've been doing the 100up drill for a while, and managed not to fall into heel striking at any stage. Really enjoyed it, but can feel it in my calves.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 04 March, 2012, 07:40:47 pm
I managed a 40sec PB at Wokingham Half yesterday, 1:44:03. Last few miles felt very hard work so doubt I'll be much faster at MK - think you need to stop slacking and make sure you beat me round Rich  ;D

Think the weather was a factor today, bitterly cold and rain turning to sleet after the ride run.
You came in 4.58mins before me  ;D
Managed 1.54.02 after stopping to have a pee just before the start of the climb up to the finish.

Rich
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 04 March, 2012, 09:01:10 pm
I managed a 40sec PB at Wokingham Half yesterday, 1:44:03. Last few miles felt very hard work so doubt I'll be much faster at MK - think you need to stop slacking and make sure you beat me round Rich  ;D

Think the weather was a factor today, bitterly cold and rain turning to sleet after the ride.
You came in 4.58mins before me  ;D
Managed 1.54.02 after stopping to have a pee just before the start of the climb up to the finish.

Rich

That was the worse weather I've raced in yet. I kept on pace first 5 miles then just went into survival mode as my blood gave up going anywhere near my muscles in case it got any colder. At least you had the sense to dress right, I was freezing by the end. Soaked to the skin uphill into a bitter northerly and what did they give us - a bottle of water!

I was a good 5 mins behind target and managed under 1:45 on the same corse last year so reckon you'd have easly beaten 1:50 on a normal day.

Nik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 05 March, 2012, 11:01:28 am
Milton Keynes half?

I was running in the Goring 10k yesterday and thanked my lucky stars I'd not entered a race longer than that. Too cold for just a shirt and shorts, I carried on through the finish line straight back to the changing area to get warm!

Yes the MK Half, bumped into Rich at the start him dressed in jacket, layers, hat and longs - me shorts, T-shirt and a refusal to believe the weather forecast. I'm told the windchill was down to minus 4 by midday.

I'm glad I didn't do Goring instead though as I'd have ridden not driven and really, really wouldn't have fancied cycling back afterwards!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gus on 05 March, 2012, 03:39:17 pm
being a fat git who have taken up running, I find it easier and easier. I got a program from a certified trainer
and I have worked my way up to 10 km without stop last sunday.  :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 06 March, 2012, 04:31:22 pm
What is it about racing in the rain that seems to dissolve brain cells? Isn't it obvious that cold_wind + rain => cold bodies after 40 minutes+ ?!? Has Audaxing turned me into a worrying old woman?!?

I've been reading some reports from the "Hard riders" time trials run on Sunday, mostly about an hour in duration - hardly anyone seems to have dressed for the weather. Perhaps for once riders should follow the continentals; "Cover the knees below 15 degrees"! I once had to give a rider some gloves at an April event before pushing him off.

You'll all catch your death I tell ya!!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 06 March, 2012, 04:45:59 pm
For me, this isn't cross training and its very much my main sport. I've been injured for a year (something a bit rare called nodular fasciitis- tumours on a tendon in my foot). I'm seeing a surgeon in 10 days and I might get my sport back very soon :)

I've been a cyclist for a year in the meantime. Been interesting reading back through this thread seeing cyclists using running as x training- a new concept to me lol. I'm an endurance runner and do very long events.

Who is in for what races next? I hope I might be back running marathons and ultras by the end of the year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 06 March, 2012, 07:39:14 pm
Swimming is allowed, encouraged even, but neither free nor doable from my front door. It doesn't really burn enough calories, either (does it?)  I'm fairly sure the physio (& my hip & knee) would object to walking with a pack, but I'll ask her next week.

Swimming burns calories dependent on how hard you work and how long for. If you swim at a leisurely pace then it won't burn all that many calories but swim hard and it burns plenty - the issue might be how long you can practicably swim for. I struggle to swim front crawl for much more than half an hour.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 06 March, 2012, 07:47:40 pm
I struggle to swim front crawl for much more than half an hour.

same here, but mainly because of boredom.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 07 March, 2012, 08:19:30 am
I'm an endurance runner and do very long events.

Who is in for what races next? I hope I might be back running marathons and ultras by the end of the year.

I'd love to hear more about your experiences of doing ultras.

In  your experience, does audaxing tell you much about how to cope with ultras and vice versa?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 07 March, 2012, 11:05:28 am
I'm very much being a runner at the moment with cycling on the back burner. I thought the 'cross' bit in the subject referred to all that muttering to myself when I loose my rhythm waiting for a chance to cross the road.

Banbury Run 15 mile next for me then the Compton Challenge 20 and the MK Marathon at the end of April. I'm most looking forward to Compton with hills and variety and countryside.

I'd really like to be an ultra runner but I don't like pain at all and am allergic to bits of me breaking, bleeding and falling off. Just started reading Dene Karnezes 'Ultramarathon Man: Confessions of an All-Night Runner' - I suspect him of embellishing the truth for literary effect in places but still a good read so far. I might yet succumb to run/walking a LDWA 'ultra' if I survive MK and Abingdon marathons intact.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 07 March, 2012, 11:24:56 am
The major attraction of running for me is you can do a decent session in an hour, in pretty much any weather. It hardly seems worth getting the bike out for less than two (not to mention washing the damn thing every so often, and all the kit).

What's gotten me back in to running is the realisation 2 hours+ a day on the bike isn't sustainable if I move jobs, whereas nipping out in lieu of lunch is.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 09 March, 2012, 10:32:11 am
Those intrigued by the barefoot running thing might want a look at this 15 minute TED talk by Born to Run author McDougall (it's not new so you might already of seen it):

http://www.ted.com/talks/christopher_mcdougall_are_we_born_to_run.html

I'm not at all convinced he's got his evolutionary history right but I still find him quite inspiring.

"We are the biggest sissies in the jungle. Every other animal is stronger than we are — they have fangs, they have claws, they have nimbleness, they have speed. We think Usain Bolt is fast — Usain Bolt can get his ass kicked by a squirrel.” (Christopher McDougall)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 11 March, 2012, 08:58:24 pm
I think I'm just going to have to learn how ultra runners tape their feet and look after them generally. That seems to be a large part of the skill of going long.


This might not be necessary.

I've done a bit of what you might call ultra-running - 30+ mile events, won some - and apart from black toenails (occupational hazard) my feet have been fine.  Ran in walshes which were minimalist before anyone coined the term. Keep off the road as much as possible, run long in peat and mud and crap, no problem.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 12 March, 2012, 08:55:12 am
Having only done 5km in my vivobarefoots, I did 7km one day, and set off to do 10km the next. Got to 5km and my left foot said no. Seems like I've given myself some peroneal tendonitis - certainly that's where the dull ache is. It's been 4 days, and my ankle still feels too achy and weak to run comfortably on, despite liberal use of ibuprofen gel (but probably too much time on the half-pipe at the skate park).

It's achy enough that if I did run, I'd be hobbling slightly. However, it's not so bad that I can't get decent air at the skatepark. Should I rest and not worry, or should I be doing these exercises?

http://www.summitmedicalgroup.com/library/sports_health/peroneal_tendon_strain_exercises/

I knew I was meant to build up slowly, but the 5km and the 7km felt brilliant, so I got cocky.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 12 March, 2012, 09:37:55 am
Some people suffer badly with feet, others not so much.

However, I do have to say that running 30 miles (kind of a long marathon) and running 100+ miles are completely different in regards to what happens to your feet. When you get into running that distance, you do need to be looking after them really.

Having said that I love 30 mile races. Kind of go off a touch slower than marathon pace and try and hang on! Most of the events I have won have been 30-40 milers I think.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 13 March, 2012, 10:44:50 am
Some people suffer badly with feet, others not so much.



That is my feeling too, on  a long run there are many pain-points that can make life so miserable you just want to pull out - thighs/calves cramping, chafing of various sorts, sunburn, iffy digestion etc - that taping of feet is only a part of the challenge.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 13 March, 2012, 11:18:41 am
Vaseline is your friend. Seriously. Forget the talc, it doesn't work. Smear your feet in Vaseline :) Lots of it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Rich753 on 13 March, 2012, 11:23:31 am
and I'd suggest single layer thin socks over your vaseline soaked feet, I've always found twin-layer socks invariably find a place to crease and creases are very very bad news! snug thin socks are your friend  ;D
Title: Re: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Manotea on 13 March, 2012, 12:51:03 pm
Most of the events I have won have been 30-40 milers I think.
That's not something I expect to be writing anytime soon!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 18 March, 2012, 09:11:12 pm
What is it about racing in the rain that seems to dissolve brain cells? Isn't it obvious that cold_wind + rain => cold bodies after 40 minutes+ ?!? Has Audaxing turned me into a worrying old woman?!?

I've been reading some reports from the "Hard riders" time trials run on Sunday, mostly about an hour in duration - hardly anyone seems to have dressed for the weather. Perhaps for once riders should follow the continentals; "Cover the knees below 15 degrees"! I once had to give a rider some gloves at an April event before pushing him off.

You'll all catch your death I tell ya!!!

I tried Granny Matt's approach at the Banbury 15 today what with a chilly northerly plus possible rain forecast and me really not wanting a repeat of Milton Keynes. Tights, shorts, compression top, gloves and vest. I got a bit warm in the second half but reckon i was a lot better off than some of the slower vest, shorts and pink flesh runners. Managed not to fade at the end like I usually do so reckon it was a good move.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 18 March, 2012, 10:01:02 pm
Nice one Nic, I did a solo half today just running around the paths of MK making it up as I went.
Didn't feel that fast and kept a steady pace all the way round. Took 2 min's off the MK half time though  :thumbsup:
Looking forward to the next ones I've booked up for, St Albans in June and another in MK in July.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: trixie on 19 March, 2012, 07:34:54 am
Managed to get round the Great Bentley half marathon yesterday - first time in years I've done one.  It's a great course, really flat with just 2 bridges as 'hills'.  Very well organised and a super 'goodie' bag at the end containing a glass paperweight with 3-d image inside of two runners - and I thought the heavy object was a brick!

Managed my best time for a half, 1hr 52mins - which of course is pretty slow for serious runners but great for an old gal like me.  At 49 I thought I should give up running and take up long distance walking instead, but encouraged by yesterday I think I'll carry on into my 50s...and perhaps beyond..who knows?  :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 19 March, 2012, 08:16:09 pm
Managed to get round the Great Bentley half marathon yesterday - first time in years I've done one.  It's a great course, really flat with just 2 bridges as 'hills'.  Very well organised and a super 'goodie' bag at the end containing a glass paperweight with 3-d image inside of two runners - and I thought the heavy object was a brick!

Managed my best time for a half, 1hr 52mins - which of course is pretty slow for serious runners but great for an old gal like me.  At 49 I thought I should give up running and take up long distance walking instead, but encouraged by yesterday I think I'll carry on into my 50s...and perhaps beyond..who knows?  :)

Well done honor! I'd be very pleased with 1:52 if I hadn't raced for years - that would easily place you in the first half of a big race like Milton Keynes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 19 March, 2012, 08:21:33 pm
Nice one Nic, I did a solo half today just running around the paths of MK making it up as I went.
Didn't feel that fast and kept a steady pace all the way round. Took 2 min's off the MK half time though  :thumbsup:
Looking forward to the next ones I've booked up for, St Albans in June and another in MK in July.

Thanks Rich! I can't run anywhere near race pace in training - I need the herd to carry me along. I did the other (NSPCC) MK Half a few years back and think it's slightly flatter and less crowded which I preferred. They had a deafening 'warm-up' thing at the start where lots of people wasted half their energy reserves jumping about before they'd even started the race - I avoided that bit.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 20 March, 2012, 10:14:02 am
Nice work Honor :) Hope you are really pleased.

I also don't get near race pace in training- its race pace for a reason.... I don't like running at 6 something pace in training, most of my easy running is 8 something min miles. Save the 6's for the races.

I've now seen people about my bust foot- I saw 3 surgeons at once which was useful. Its a bit of a mess!!! I have a ruptured plantar fascia, tumours on the tendon and some tunnel syndrome thing in the tendons. Having an operation to try and repair it all in July, will need to be in plaster 3 weeks very annoyingly but worth it to run again. In fact it will be worth it to walk properly lol as I've been limping on it for what feels like totally forever.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 20 March, 2012, 11:26:52 am
Feel silly posting this under your post, Lady Cav, as my problems are nothing. That said, my peroneal tendon hadn't improved despite 2 weeks of no running and loads of ibuprofen gel and tablets. I happened to check whether there was NHS physio in my area. Turns out you can self refer. I had a half hour consultation over the phone, and have applied for a face-to-face consultation.

In the mean time, I was chatting to a couple of the researchers in my dept., one who is a research physio, the other who is a personal trainer in her spare time. The personal trainer offered to do a tool assisted massage on it. Wow - the effect was immediate and incredible. I've gone from hobbling when walking to being able to run - I'm not going to, but I couldn't even push off with the ball of my foot before. She'd done it twice since, and has offered to continue doing it for another week to see if it can be fixed before the appointment comes through. It's entirely possible it could have got better on it's own, but the immediate effects are quite astonishing - shocking, even. She thinks I'll be running again by the end of next week, whereas the physio on the phone said 6 weeks. The research physio agreed with the PT that another 6 weeks off would most likely be counter-productive, but who knows (and it feels unfair to compare opinions of two people who've seen it with someone I've only spoken to over the phone).

I'm not sure what version of tool assisted massage it is she is using, but I see there are a bunch. I'll ask next time she does it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 01 April, 2012, 03:05:10 pm
Parkrun again yesterday, times come down to 22.37 this week  :thumbsup:
Enjoying the change and looks like I'll do more running than audax this year. Will get back to it next year I suppose  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gus on 01 April, 2012, 03:23:21 pm
Did my first ever 10km. today. It wasn't fast but I ran all the way.  :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 01 April, 2012, 10:43:59 pm
Well done Gus  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 02 April, 2012, 07:25:12 am
Run a total of 46km this week, which I'm pleased with after several weeks off with tendon trouble. When I start reintroducing the vivobarefoots, I'm going to do it slowly this time!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 02 April, 2012, 09:28:58 am
Parkrun again yesterday, times come down to 22.37 this week  :thumbsup:
Enjoying the change and looks like I'll do more running than audax this year. Will get back to it next year I suppose  ;D
Apparently you've already ridden at least 514km; that's a lot of 5ks!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 03 April, 2012, 06:47:04 am
Sad to read that Micah True - the mysterious, minimalist trail runner 'caballo blanco' that shows MacDougal the ropes in 'Born to Run' - has been found dead.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news/46121/body-runner-micah-true-caballo-blanco-found

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 03 April, 2012, 06:48:53 am
Parkrun again yesterday, times come down to 22.37 this week  :thumbsup:
Enjoying the change and looks like I'll do more running than audax this year. Will get back to it next year I suppose  ;D

That's a minute faster than I can do  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 03 April, 2012, 01:01:34 pm
Sad to read that Micah True - the mysterious, minimalist trail runner 'caballo blanco' that shows MacDougal the ropes in 'Born to Run' - has been found dead.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news/46121/body-runner-micah-true-caballo-blanco-found

Yes, saw that too. Sad news.

Did an 11 mile run out on various tractor tracks yesterday, and my ankle was fine. I think I'm safe to conclude I'm fixed.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 04 April, 2012, 07:53:31 am
Sad to read that Micah True - the mysterious, minimalist trail runner 'caballo blanco' that shows MacDougal the ropes in 'Born to Run' - has been found dead.

http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news/46121/body-runner-micah-true-caballo-blanco-found

Yes, saw that too. Sad news.

Did an 11 mile run out on various tractor tracks yesterday, and my ankle was fine. I think I'm safe to conclude I'm fixed.

Running on tractor tracks! Don't know whether that counts as a genius ankle strengthening method or just plain masochism.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 05 April, 2012, 08:59:34 pm
They aren't that bad at the mo'. I did 13.35 miles on them tonight, which was my first half marathon distance run. Mostly I try to run between them.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: her_welshness on 12 April, 2012, 12:42:14 pm
I am reading this book, 'Run Fat B!tch Run' which is about getting into running, from scratch. Basically you devise a 3-4 mile route (which begins and ends at home), which you walk at first, memorise it, walk it for around 2 weeks (3-5 times a week) and then gradually after the 10 minute warm up you start jogging, very slowly for as long as you can. Then walk the rest of the way. Each time you go out the idea is extending it until you can run it pretty much in 45 minutes. My husband says thats slow, but thats the point - its about getting to that point in the first place. I currently cycle around 22 miles a day (commuting) but my body is used to it  :-[

So I ran for about 5 minutes of the route yesterday and then walked the rest of it - my heart was really yammering away when I did the jogging bit. Today the front of my thighs are sore!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 12 April, 2012, 12:48:16 pm
Couch to 5km is one that's really popular on myfitnesspal. It confused the heck out of me, because people would say "I've just completed C25K, and now I'm doing a 10k race", leaving me thinking they had been doing 25km runs.

Anyway, C25Km sounds similar to your book

http://www.nhs.uk/LiveWell/c25k/Pages/couch-to-5k.aspx
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: her_welshness on 12 April, 2012, 01:29:42 pm
Thanks DrMekon, my mate Dave has been doing the couch to 5km programme and it seems a very similar one to Run Fat B!tch Run.

LOL -  C25K! In my dreams  :o

A few minutes after that run, and looking at the view of London from Blyth Hill fields I felt remarkably good. During the run I felt like sh!t. But as the Grit Doctor says in the book 'do not expect to enjoy it - in fact - you may not even get to enjoy it'
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 16 April, 2012, 11:48:17 am
Still enjoying the running here, did my first 10k race yesterday over in Flitwick.
Good fun, but a little undulating!!
Was hoping for about 50 minutes considering the course and running in a crowd, All the 1km splits were under 5 minutes though and I finished in a time of 48.23 which I'm well happy with  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 17 April, 2012, 04:52:06 pm
25th May :) :) :)

Thats when my operation is happening.

I'm going to run again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 17 April, 2012, 04:55:24 pm
Loving running atm. Pass for Midhurst 600 got rescinded due to family stuff, so thinking of entering the FV Spartans 50km challenge instead. Coping with upping the weekly mileage to 40-50 mils a week, but not getting much in the way of long runs in. Haven't done anything over 15 miles yet, so may be silly.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 17 April, 2012, 04:59:19 pm
Thats a nice run the 50k. You can always enter it and I'm sure they'd let you change to the marathon, or even the 17 mile run on the day depending on what you fancy at the time.

Lov that event, and great BBQ at the end :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 28 April, 2012, 10:05:36 pm
update - started getting worse. Was starting to wake up with it in pain, and pain just from walking. Had NHS physio appointment on Friday. She said I've got very tight calf muscles and hamstrings (cycling's fault), and weak ankles (wearing my stiff soled SPDs as my shoes at work the cause?). She said that the combination of those with my mid / forefoot strike running is the cause of the problem. She's said no running at all for the mo', and has got me using a theraband to strengthen my ankle (rotating it left and right when it's tied to a table with a big rubber band), and doing calf and hamstring stretches. She also said that when I come back in two weeks, she wants me to bring my trainers and running shorts (she had me running up and down the ward in my pants), and she's going to work on my gait. She was saying that I should be heel striking.

FWIW, the ankle lifts she had me doing to show how weak my ankles are was a real eye opener. I can barely balance at all on one foot, and my leg was shaking all over the place.

My trainer at work fully admits she's out qualified by the physio (albeit she's got a related MSc, an unrelated PhD, and a shed load of fitness/pt qualifications), and shouldn't contradict her. That said, whilst she agreed tightness was an issue, she's suggested some different exercises, and has been doing pressure point release on my calf - hurts like a bastard, but can feel the difference in my foot immediately. She thinks short runs in my vivobarefoots would be good for strengthening my ankle, and doesn't see heel strike as a good idea.

So, on one hand I have a chartered physio saying no running and return to heel strike, and on the other, a PT saying stick with the midfoot/forefoot and go for short runs. It's going to be hard not to hit the trails at lunchtime.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 28 April, 2012, 10:12:43 pm
I am totally shocked that a physio has told you to heel strike. Were they drunk?!?!?!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 29 April, 2012, 08:21:04 am
Heel-strike creates no problem at all for many many runners. It maybe that NHS Physios are more concerned with bigger issues (like mending broken bones, or dealing with massive assymetries, dodgy hips etc etc ...); so they stick with what they know - heel strike - and then assess/fix the other problems.

I'm just guessing here, mind! And I do think that the bulk of research does NOT say heel strike is any healthier than landing further forward. Probably the opposite, but there doesn't seem to be much consensus.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 29 April, 2012, 08:55:06 pm
My other half is a big heel striker, and a 2.30 marathon runner- if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Many people can get away with heel striking.

I can't believe anyone would actively encourage it tho- mid/forefoot running creates a million less problems. Plus the fact it's loads more efficient- elites don't heel strike.

I'm not a physio though. But as a PT specialising in rehab, I have dealt with many runners and injuries, the heel strikers have loads more of the problems.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 30 April, 2012, 08:34:07 am
Good to see you out supporting at the MK Marathon yesterday Rich, you'll have noticed I'd reverted to the trail runners tactic of walking up the humpback bridge and running down the other side by that stage  :-[

On target 2 hour first half dissolved into a 4hr 30 finish. It was a truly horrible day, as bad as last time I went to Milton Keynes but twice as long. Support along the route was great though.

As I was adding to the congestion in the queue for Furzton Lake mud bath car park before the start I spotted Teethgrinder pedalling to the start.

Guess this sort of sums it up:

(http://www.wolvertongands.co.uk/mkm/images/P1050165.JPG)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 30 April, 2012, 11:16:48 am
I think most had the same tactic for the bridges. I was out on that bridge marshaling from 10.30 until 16.00. Was a good day.
Looking forward to Abingdon now :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 30 April, 2012, 12:07:28 pm
I'll hopefully be in for Abingdon too. Been injured so long my GFA time has run out so I'll be looking to get a championship start time for London as I've had to enter the ballot for the first time in forever this morning. Not happy about that!!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 30 April, 2012, 12:53:30 pm
I'll hopefully be in for Abingdon too. Been injured so long my GFA time has run out so I'll be looking to get a championship start time for London as I've had to enter the ballot for the first time in forever this morning. Not happy about that!!!

Hope you've got your entry in - they filled up ridiculously quickly this year!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 30 April, 2012, 01:45:28 pm
Ballot entry done yes, but there is until December to get a championship time done and sent off. They'd just better fix the bl**dy foot!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 30 April, 2012, 01:46:18 pm
Ohhhhhh sorry, Abingdon, yes. Got that in when it opened :) Always fills up stupidly fast.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 30 April, 2012, 02:54:58 pm
Ohhhhhh sorry, Abingdon, yes. Got that in when it opened :) Always fills up stupidly fast.

That's proper planning, could easily have blinked and missed it! I do hope they fix your foot OK - it'll be downright embarrassing if you hop past me when I'm going flat out  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 02 May, 2012, 12:09:19 am
As I was adding to the congestion in the queue for Furzton Lake mud bath car park before the start I spotted Teethgrinder pedalling to the start.

I never knew you were running it too. That was my first marathon. I decided that the best way to train was to not bother doing too much running and go cycling instead.  ;D It was my first run in over 2 weeks and my longest run by 12 miles. The last two weeks of cycling 400 miles each weekend did lose me 5kg of blubber and I think it did make a difference.
1st 6.5 miles done in about an hour very comfortably and I wasn't breathing hard, I chatted to a few runners. I was even surprised how fast I was going because it felt so easy. I felt my legs start to get tired after that and they just got more tired as I went on and my speed kept dropping through the rest of the run. I never tried to force the pace up because I knew that I hadn't done enough running to build the strength in my legs and wouldn't be able to keep it up for another 3 hours, so I just let my speed drop until I was going really slow at the end. I only managed 4:38, so with my first quarter in about an hour, I must have got really slow at the end.
I prefered the uphills at the finish and hated the downhills. My hip flexors and thighs are tight as it is but they tightened up even more in the last 3-4 miles and downhills got pretty uncomfortable.
I found it easier than the MK half, but I might have been a bit ill that day and did push the pace because I knew that I could for a half.
I thought that the winning time of 2:41 was a bit slow for a winning time. Were all the big boys recovering from London or was it really that hard? I didn't mind the weather myself.
My legs are still stiff, but I think that when they are recovered I'll really feel the new strength in my legs from the marathon and want to go running a bit more than I did before the marathon. (I like doing things the wrong way around ;D)
I intend to get out and do some more regular running and hopefully build up to ultras. It'd be nice to actually go somewhere and see stuff instead of Milton Keynes in the pissing rain! Anyone reccommend any good Ultras for a non dedicated runner to aim for?
I'm thinking of doing some of the SW Coastal Path this Christmas too. I'll just be travelling on foot, whether running or walking. Just to see the views and see how far I get.

I never knew you were a runner Lady Cavendish. I wondered where you got all that fitness from when I rode a few miles with you on The Dean 300, now I know.
Good luck with the op, but only if it doesn't mean you'll stop cycling. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 02 May, 2012, 06:52:13 am
Very well done TG. And yup running means the world to me.

I've only been cycling as I'm injured so will probably stop it tbh....

I have loads of good ultra suggestions- that's my bag, PM me and let me know how far u wanna run.

2.41 is indeed a v slow time for a win- I think the 'big boys' were either recovering from VLM or Brighton, or otherwise were at Manchester or Shakespeare on Sunday which are higher profile (although Shakespeare was actually reduced to a half 5 mins before the start due to flooding)

Now can I interest you in joining my running club, the 100 marathon club? You only have 99 to go and it's full of people like you!!! You even get a nice blue vest.....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 02 May, 2012, 09:16:09 am
I intend to get out and do some more regular running and hopefully build up to ultras. It'd be nice to actually go somewhere and see stuff
This is what I love about cycling. The only plus* for running is easier access to remote areas.

Only the talented (and dedicated) top level of runners can cover a decent distance across 'interesting' terrain - whilst a natural snail like me can ride something like the Dean in a day. Oxford to Wales and back. Or L-E-L in 5 days. Mostly without injury!

(There are other logistical things, like cheaper/simpler gear).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 02 May, 2012, 09:27:48 am
For me, running is mainly for racing anyway. But in terms of 'seeing stuff', ultras are perrrrfect for that. And no talent required fortunately :)

South Downs Way 103 mile race is beautiful, (and North Downs 100) as is the Ridgeway 85, West Highland Way 95 (Or Highland Fling 54 on some of route), some fab runs in Wales, Brecon Beacons 45 etc, and for those who don't want to run so far, there are still some fantastic trail marathons in great places. But nope, its not like riding to Wales and back in a day, which was quite cool!

Typical for me that just as I might be getting my foot back I'll need time out as I'll be too fat to run, but at least I'll hopefully be properly fixed when I'm ready to get back running. And I reckon I can still cycle for a while with a big belly.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 02 May, 2012, 09:31:02 am
For me, running is mainly for racing anyway. But in terms of 'seeing stuff', ultras are perrrrfect for that. And no talent required fortunately :)
Modesty is always admirable, but in this context it may undermine your argument somewhat!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 02 May, 2012, 09:37:14 am
Hmmm - glad to hear about the no talent bit as, like a rash adolescent on the rebound, I've just entered the Northants Ultra (http://gobeyondultra.co.uk/events/northants_ultra_shires_and_spires). It just looked like a nice day out and the Marlborough Downs 20 I was considering seems to be full.

I plan to walk run from the very start and will DNS if the weather looks crap, 7hrs 30m will do me fine. Seemed to me that I've just done most of the training and a 26 mile long 'run'  :)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 02 May, 2012, 09:54:48 am
Good choice Nik, those organisers are good guys and its a nice run (although I think I got a bit lost- no change there!!) A fairly easy course, so you'll be absolutely fine. Jealous!!

All this talk is really making me want to go for a run! I'm coaching some people but just desperate to do it myself.

Cycling is an ok alterative though I spose grrrr. Although with morning sickness not so much.

So who else has got any races planned?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 02 May, 2012, 04:40:12 pm
I have a few shorter ones planned.
5 mile at Sulgrave on Monday, Greensand ridge relay in June.
St Albans half, MK half (July), maybe Robin Hood half and Abingdon marathon in Oct.
That's to start with anyway :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 02 May, 2012, 06:23:56 pm
Now can I interest you in joining my running club, the 100 marathon club? You only have 99 to go and it's full of people like you!!! You even get a nice blue vest.....

No.
Why would I want to join a bunch of nutters who are just like me? ;)


I'll definitely do more marathons, better still, ultras. But only as a side project from cycling. I can run places I can't cycle, such as long distance footpaths, and would like to just go wild with a tent and sleeping bag on my back as well as doing events. I've sometimes been cycling in the Welsh mountains and thought it would be nice to cycle to a Youth Hostel one day, spend the next day or two on foot in the mountains, then cycling back home again. I sort of do that on my mountain bike now though. Trouble is there is too much that I want to do in cycling as well and that's just road cycling. I like my mountain bike too. I might keep running as a winter sport. Bikes take a hammering in the winter and ice is a problem. That's why I'm thinking of doing a Christmas holiday on foot this year. Days are shorter in winter too. I have a week off over Christmas and I always end up spending a lot of time cycling in the dark on Christmas tours. 8 hours a day on a bike isn't very much for me, but 8 hours on foot would be quite a lot as I won't be used to being on foot.
I also thought that doing some running would give me stronger legs for standing up all day at work. When I come home after a week or so of cycling, I will have spent hardly any time at all on my feet during that tour and when I get back to work and have to stand up all day, I notice it. I think that if I develop stronger legs for just standing up, I will feel less tired after work and more inclined to go for a bike ride as I will be feeling fresher. It does seem to be working.
Plus I think it may help fend off knee injuries from cycling. I've known a few long distance cyclists who have ended up with knee trouble, but I never have. I wonder if it's because I stand up at work all day and that it develops other muscles in my legs to counteract my cycling muscles.
I couldn't go to a gym, I have to enjoy it or I won't bother, so it has to be running for me. Walking takes too long. Plus my heart and lungs can get a workout with running.
It'd take me a long time to run 100 marathons, if I ever do. If I went for that, I'd want to do it in under a year and even then, I doubt I'd think it that much of a challenge.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 02 May, 2012, 07:10:44 pm
It'd take me a long time to run 100 marathons, if I ever do. If I went for that, I'd want to do it in under a year and even then, I doubt I'd think it that much of a challenge.

 :facepalm:


Only toothy could write that! :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 02 May, 2012, 07:28:28 pm
It'd take me a long time to run 100 marathons, if I ever do. If I went for that, I'd want to do it in under a year and even then, I doubt I'd think it that much of a challenge.

 :facepalm:


Only toothy could write that! :)

I think quite a lot of people could say the same if they had the free time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 02 May, 2012, 07:28:49 pm
It would be a challenge as it's very hard to find that many in a year. The record was recently 87 until last year, involving obviously lots of travel. I think Travis Wilcox has just broken it. Basically you need to be selected for the Brathay 10 in 10 days, because it's almost impossible to find them Sat and Sun all year round, which is almost what you need to do. 100 has certainly never been done in a year before.

There are a couple of 3 in 3 day events to help but finding 100 in a year would be v v hard to do. It might just be possible with the amount of events starting up but I'm still not sure it is.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 02 May, 2012, 07:30:58 pm
Don't runners do permanents like we do in Audax? :(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 02 May, 2012, 07:32:55 pm
A marathon is a marathon race, not a 26 mile training run!!!!!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 02 May, 2012, 07:33:05 pm
Parkrun do :) But only for 5k :(

{Or you could do an Izzard ... money might be required :(  ]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 02 May, 2012, 07:43:10 pm
A marathon is a marathon race, not a 26 mile training run!!!!!!

I wouldn't call what I did on Sunday, "racing."
 ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 02 May, 2012, 07:45:47 pm
Haha!! You took part in a 'race' however :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 02 May, 2012, 07:58:05 pm
No wussy 'points' system for marathon runners either - if you complete a 100 mile ultra it's still only 1 marathon  :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Manotea on 02 May, 2012, 08:05:33 pm
Don't runners do permanents like we do in Audax? :(
isn't that called 'going for a run'? Only real saddoes would worry about points for that.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 02 May, 2012, 08:06:57 pm
Unsupported trail running with at least one overnight is what they call 'fast packing', not heard of people doing it in the UK - it sort of appeals to me but suspect it's a bit tougher than Audax (you don't get to sit down most of the time for starters).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 02 May, 2012, 08:15:00 pm
A marathon is a marathon race, not a 26 mile training run!!!!!!

I wouldn't call what I did on Sunday, "racing."
 ;D

Well I call my attempt 'racing' though I did notice my average pace was actually slower than my longest training run  :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 02 May, 2012, 08:59:12 pm
Unsupported trail running with at least one overnight is what they call 'fast packing', not heard of people doing it in the UK - it sort of appeals to me but suspect it's a bit tougher than Audax (you don't get to sit down most of the time for starters).

I call it all, "travelling on foot," or even just going out and having fun. I'd just take a bag of stuff and a wallet full of cash and see what I feel like doing.
Running seems similar to cycling, that every style has to have a category and sub culture.

Don't runners do permanents like we do in Audax? :(
isn't that called 'going for a run'? Only real saddoes would worry about points for that.

All I did on Sunday was "go for a run." I never raced anyone, I just wanted to do the event and enjoy it as much as I could. I never got any points as far as I know, nor do I care.
I can't see what is sad about someone going for a run of marathon distance for the purpose of collecting points or whatever purpose they see fit. They could go out to do their fastest marathon without all the crowds, same as they could enter a proper marathon race event and just run round it like I did. Who cares? Whatever inspires people to go and do and who am I to tell other people what is sad or not. I think it's sad if people don't do it, whatever it may be. Doing it as an event made it easier for me. I saw it as a starting point. The same as Audax was my starting point at long distance cycling.
I enjoyed the crowds and atmosphere and did my longest ever run. I'm just a fun runner, not a competitor (the race winner could probably hop backwards faster than I can run). I run (and cycle) for my life, not just for the sake of events, which are just a part of my life.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 05 May, 2012, 02:46:18 pm
Here is the only sport result that matters this year:
37   Matt    23:23
61   Nik W   25:29

I thought Nik would do better with all that training he did last week, but I reckon he did his best.

I can now retire happy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 05 May, 2012, 04:03:52 pm
Here is the only sport result that matters this year:
37   Matt    23:23
61   Nik W   25:29

I thought Nik would do better with all that training he did last week, but I reckon he did his best.

I can now retire happy.

Hmmmph - well I was 4th in my age category and you weren't even in it, so there!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 10 May, 2012, 12:59:20 pm
Ankle is finally fixed. Physio gave me theraband exercises to do and a load of calf and hamstring stretches. She said no running for 3 weeks, but my fixie got a puncture, my tandem was in the shop, my wife was using the trike, and my tourer was missing a chain. Had no choice but to run the 12 miles to work and back, did I? Done it twice since, and whereas before, I could feel a difference between my feet, even when the ankle wasn't sore, they now feel the same.

It's lucky it is fixed, because the footpath I run in on is a quagmire what with all the rain. Where it drops down into a village, I had to skate down this morning where the MTBers have churned up the whole path.

So I just entered the Fairlands Valley 50km. Got to have something to aim for.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 10 May, 2012, 01:11:26 pm
She said no running for 3 weeks,

...Had no choice but to run the 12 miles to work and back, did I? Done it twice since, ...

So I just entered the Fairlands Valley 50km. Got to have something to aim for.
Good grief, that's only 2 months away! I hope you're building up sensibly; maybe a marathon this weekend?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 10 May, 2012, 01:27:20 pm
Probably not sensibly. I've done consecutive 50 mile weeks (whilst injured but before I saw the physio) okay that have included half-marathons, but I know I'm going to have to get organised.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 10 May, 2012, 01:39:00 pm
I'm rather jealous of a 50-mile week whilst injured!

My progress is a bit confused at the mo, despite my epic vanquishing of Nik last week. My legs are fine* on a 25min flat-out blast (HR160ave-ish), but if I try a steadier pace (HR 130-140) I can't manage 40mins without various pains of the type I choose not to push through.
This is off a few months of sporadic runs punctuated by big bike miles. I think I need frequency, so I'm aiming to run at least 10 mins, 5 times a week from now on - treat it like building up after injury.

(It's possible that my gait is more efficient when i run fast. So I'm doing some longer sessions as fast run-walk.  )

*Tired/achy, but in healthy ways!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 10 May, 2012, 01:48:43 pm
Much like on the bike, I'm very much slow and steady, and never push it. My normal pace on my 6 mile route into work is 8.45 min/mile (rucksack with lunch/clothes,etc, over mixed terrain). Since I shortened my stride length and changed my strike, my pace has really dropped, but I feel much better. I doubt I could run a 45min 10km at the mo. It's difficult to think of myself as a runner - audaxer who plods a bit faster than walking is how I think of myself.

I just downloaded a training plan from http://www.scrunners.org/ultrasch.php

It shouldn't be too difficult for the next few weeks at least. The struggle will be to fit in the longer runs. I can get away with doing 10 miles each way to work, plus a lunchtime 10km, but I doubt I'll find the time to do more than a couple of 18 mile runs. Hopefully it''ll work like audaxing - my SR was on the back of just riding to work and back.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 10 May, 2012, 01:56:06 pm
Crikey. It'll be quite a mental test to do a 31mile "training run" !

Looks like your recent 50-mile weeks put you well on track for the event  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 10 May, 2012, 02:53:23 pm
You guys train in very peculiar ways.

Nice choice on the Fairlands Valley one, hope the weather is kind that day for the BBQ!

Matt- what 'progress' are you after? Faster 5ks?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 10 May, 2012, 03:03:26 pm
You guys train in very peculiar ways.

Nice choice on the Fairlands Valley one, hope the weather is kind that day for the BBQ!


Well you are the expert - please clue me in!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 10 May, 2012, 03:09:05 pm
LOL, I'm not an expert. I don't think anyone in ultra running can call themselves an expert as what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another......

Coach/PT yes, expert, no lol.

Plus, it totally depends on what you want from things. A good time on the clock, a good time during the event, somewhere in between, a 'get round in pain with as little training as possible' or 'get round feeling comfortable but having to train more' scenario.

None of these I am saying are right or wrong btw....!!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 10 May, 2012, 03:16:36 pm
Primary motivation is definitely "get around in as little pain as possible". My "training" can rarely exceed 2x 1hr per day, so I'm just fitting in the miles I can. I am hoping that 6 miles each way to work, plus the occasional longer run will be sufficient for 50km. To paraphrase Murakami, I want to be able to say "at least I didn't walk".
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 10 May, 2012, 03:22:17 pm
Long runs are without doubt the most important element, rather than the 6 mile runs to work.

Really, you need to be doing a long run one day (18-20+), with a 10ish mile run either the day before or day after a few times. I guess you can use 2 x 6m runs instead of a 10 the day before/after a long run, but 2 x 5 mile runs does not equal a 10 mile run in terms of training effect.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 10 May, 2012, 03:32:04 pm
Very tricky to bunk off for a couple of hours of running with a young family though. Might have to be a bit creative.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 10 May, 2012, 03:53:34 pm
Potentially - though I tend to have to help get them out of the house. It'll be more of a case of skipping lunch and getting in late / leaving early.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 10 May, 2012, 04:47:02 pm
If I had to get back from a 20 miler by 7am I'd have to set off about 3  :o

Probably a good incentive to get faster  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 10 May, 2012, 04:55:43 pm
My plan for the Northants Ultra is an extra slow ('race pace') 22 mile trail run with a couple of hills this Sunday then next week a faster 13 mile trail Friday, medium effort 5k parkrun Saturday then slow 10 miles Sunday to let them legs know they will be required to carry on even if they would prefer a rest. That'll have to do as then it's taper time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 10 May, 2012, 05:43:28 pm
Matt- what 'progress' are you after? Faster 5ks?
Goodness no. :) Not remotely worried about speed. (The Parkruns are just a nice event I can do at a convenient time, and it's been motivating to see my time come down).

I want to be an Ultra Runner!
I'd like to run further. 'Proper' long runs would be brilliant (as Steve put it, Audax on foot), but I'd settle for an hour*. I regularly ran for an hour when I was younger and found it was enough to really blow the cobwebs away, feel like you'd done something, put the demons to bed for awhile and all that jazz.

Being able to ride for 24hours (almost) non-stop makes it very frustrating to only jog for 40mins  >:(

(*given my leg fractures in '93 and subsequent joint problems )
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 10 May, 2012, 05:45:51 pm
I'm rather jealous of a 50-mile week whilst injured!

My progress is a bit confused at the mo, despite my epic vanquishing of Nik last week. My legs are fine* on a 25min flat-out blast (HR160ave-ish), but if I try a steadier pace (HR 130-140) I can't manage 40mins without various pains of the type I choose not to push through.
This is off a few months of sporadic runs punctuated by big bike miles. I think I need frequency, so I'm aiming to run at least 10 mins, 5 times a week from now on - treat it like building up after injury.

(It's possible that my gait is more efficient when i run fast. So I'm doing some longer sessions as fast run-walk.  )

*Tired/achy, but in healthy ways!

I would suggest you targeted the Didcot 5 (http://www.didcotrunners.co.uk/didcot5.php) race as a step up being as it's on your doorstep but I guess you'll be Bashing the Barbury that weekend.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 10 May, 2012, 05:51:40 pm
Have you had your gait analysed Matt, and what hurts?!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 11 May, 2012, 11:16:06 am
Uggh - IT band pain is a new one to me. Outside of my left knee has a dull ache, and it feels weak going down the stairs.

Running is annoying. I've never had more than a slightly uncomfortable bottom when cycling. Running makes me want new legs.

Doing IT band stretches, will leave off running until Tuesday. Anything else I can do to make it go away?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 11 May, 2012, 11:18:23 am
Get the foam roller on it. Best thing for it, helps more than stretching (but that will of course help too!)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 11 May, 2012, 11:40:35 am
Just borrowed a TPTherapy roller and had a go on it.

(http://tptherapy.com/shop/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/218x146/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/u/6/u6_kit_book.jpg)

Sore!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 11 May, 2012, 02:19:20 pm
I've used a rolling pin instead of these over-priced bits of foam and the like! (actually the foam is a bit easier to use - but prices are still crazy)


My turn: pain is right at the top of the calf muscle, outside, feels like where it attaches to the knobbly bit (which I assume is a bit of bone, maybe the head of the shin-bone?)
If I find a nice piccie I'll try to find the posh name.

(I've had loads of other issues over the years, but this one seems to be the one with staying power in 2012. Most of the other issues went away when I switched to POSE-type running.)

If I won the lottery I'd pay a dozen physios to look at it, but I've been down that road before - lots of money, little result  :-\ Saving my cash for problems that prevent me cycling, working, or mowing the lawn.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 11 May, 2012, 02:21:49 pm
Yes find a nice piccie Matt, can't quite work out where you're on about lol.

When you switched to POSE, did you go to a workshop/coaching session or did you do it from the book?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 11 May, 2012, 02:24:56 pm
I'll give you a clue - which would have been cheaper?

[book? When there's so much hearsay and nonsense free on the internet?!? ]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 11 May, 2012, 02:28:42 pm
LOL, ok, fair enough. It's just that its quite hard to get it right from the book/internet/wherever you've found it!

2 weeks today till my foot gets fixed. This should be renamed the broken and injured thread- its not a great advert for running!!!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 11 May, 2012, 02:41:45 pm
LOL, ok, fair enough. It's just that its quite hard to get it right from the book/internet/wherever you've found it!
I do usually have more faith in professionals than Internet Experts. But I did a lot of reading about POSE, and it seemed that the only problems were from doing too much too soon (same with proper barefoot running).

2 weeks today till my foot gets fixed. This should be renamed the broken and injured thread- its not a great advert for running!!!!

Good luck. When's the first 50-miler scheduled?!?

I can't blame my injuries on running or cycling - my mistake was getting into a car on an icy night.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 11 May, 2012, 02:49:04 pm
Haha!! I'll just have to see 'how' fixed it is. It might yet not work at all, although I don't want to really think about that. I'd have to turn into a cyclist or something.

Supposed to be running again within 6 weeks, we'll see.....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 11 May, 2012, 03:21:04 pm
I'd have to turn into a cyclist or something.

Some are born cyclists, some become cyclists, and some have cycling thrust upon them  ;)

Seriously, hope you get what you hope for from the op.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 11 May, 2012, 03:29:20 pm
Thanks :)

Whatever happens, I've found Time Trialling, which I didn't know about a year ago, and I'll carry that on, and I think I'll still do the occasional Audax, I've liked seeing new places.

And if I end up as a cyclist, so be it. I pulled out of the Mille Alba due to reasons that are no longer relevant, so I might have to think about LEL or something and whatever leads up to that! Just think, mind you. Still not sure about this no sleep thing.

But hopefully I'll be running.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 11 May, 2012, 03:48:26 pm
I've used a rolling pin instead of these over-priced bits of foam and the like! (actually the foam is a bit easier to use - but prices are still crazy)

Tell me about it! Fortunately, one of the researchers downstairs decided that after her PhD, she wanted to get some practical behavior change experience, so spent ten grand doing all sorts of PT training courses. However, she then got a job with us. In the absence of a client list, I'm basically been her guinea pig, and she won't take any money for it. The £150 roller kit is hers. She just shows me how to use it. In return, her office mates get to laugh at me weeping in pain.

She's doing Tough Mudder at the weekend. She's utterly self-effacing about her abilities, which will make it a complete joy if she gets around quicker that the somewhat alpha male mates of mine who are also doing it. There will be considerable teasing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 11 May, 2012, 07:54:28 pm
My turn: pain is right at the top of the calf muscle, outside, feels like where it attaches to the knobbly bit (which I assume is a bit of bone, maybe the head of the shin-bone?)
If I find a nice piccie I'll try to find the posh name.

The label 'F' on this slightly odd picture shows the rough location. Of course it stops as soon as I do, so it's hard to pin down, but it really does feel like the very top of the soft tissue just before you reach bone (a bone which sadly isn't visible in this picture!). Not in the body of the muscle, certainly not in the knee joint.

(http://0101.nccdn.net/1_5/295/200/270/IT-band.jpg)

I am vaguely aware that the ITB reaches down to below the knee, and given that this has caused me knee problems while riding (now resolved, touch wood), I'm open to the idea that it's related  :-\
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gandalf on 19 May, 2012, 12:40:17 pm
Did my first Parkrun this morning. As expected, painfully slow but it will be interesting to see my times improve each week, I hope.

I made the mistake of setting off too quickly but you kind of get pushed along by the pack when it starts.  I don't think I was the only one though, on the last lap I did manage to pass a few of the peeps who had dropped me earlier on.

Great fun. Highly recommended, particularly as it's free.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 19 May, 2012, 09:47:32 pm
More physio. This time, the physio diagnosed weak "bum" and thighs to go with my weak ankles. Reckons I've got hamstrings "like rocks". I don't know if that is a good thing.

I'm doing the foam roller on the ITB, lots of calf and hamstring stretches, more ankle lifts, and some short lunges. She reckons I lack control, which combined with the tight calves and hamstrings, is the cause of the IT band problems.

She's saying no running, but both the physio and the PT at work reckon that's a bad idea. As you can imagine, theirs is the message I prefer. Did 9 miles in, 7 miles home on Friday with no ankle pain and only a mildly tweaky left knee. Trying to follow some sort of plan for the 50km in July, albeit skipping some short runs, and doing the long run and the tired legs run on the same day.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 20 May, 2012, 09:02:15 am
Did my first Parkrun this morning. As expected, painfully slow but it will be interesting to see my times improve each week, I hope.

I made the mistake of setting off too quickly but you kind of get pushed along by the pack when it starts.  I don't think I was the only one though, on the last lap I did manage to pass a few of the peeps who had dropped me earlier on.

Great fun. Highly recommended, particularly as it's free.

They're great fun aren't they! It's really hard to avoid getting dragged along at the start - even with my Garmin telling me it's unsustainable it's just really hard to slow up. Ran my 18th yesterday, my slowest to date, deliberately starting near the back and just taking it easy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 20 May, 2012, 09:10:01 am
More physio. This time, the physio diagnosed weak "bum" and thighs to go with my weak ankles. Reckons I've got hamstrings "like rocks". I don't know if that is a good thing.

I'm doing the foam roller on the ITB, lots of calf and hamstring stretches, more ankle lifts, and some short lunges. She reckons I lack control, which combined with the tight calves and hamstrings, is the cause of the IT band problems.

She's saying no running, but both the physio and the PT at work reckon that's a bad idea. As you can imagine, theirs is the message I prefer. Did 9 miles in, 7 miles home on Friday with no ankle pain and only a mildly tweaky left knee. Trying to follow some sort of plan for the 50km in July, albeit skipping some short runs, and doing the long run and the tired legs run on the same day.

I've also been doing less routine short mile runs to compensate for upping the length of the long runs - makes sense not to increase the overall mileage unnecessarily steeply and also I reckon the odd extra day recovery is good when running long. Deliberately slow 8 mile trail run today with full kit then just a couple of easy 4 milers next week to be rested for next Sunday's ultra.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 20 May, 2012, 09:19:59 am
My turn: pain is right at the top of the calf muscle, outside, feels like where it attaches to the knobbly bit (which I assume is a bit of bone, maybe the head of the shin-bone?)
If I find a nice piccie I'll try to find the posh name.

The label 'F' on this slightly odd picture shows the rough location. Of course it stops as soon as I do, so it's hard to pin down, but it really does feel like the very top of the soft tissue just before you reach bone (a bone which sadly isn't visible in this picture!). Not in the body of the muscle, certainly not in the knee joint.

(http://0101.nccdn.net/1_5/295/200/270/IT-band.jpg)

I am vaguely aware that the ITB reaches down to below the knee, and given that this has caused me knee problems while riding (now resolved, touch wood), I'm open to the idea that it's related  :-\

I used to get a lot of pain around there (F) in early audax days, both legs at different times, and it recurred when I started running but hasn't troubled recently. I'm pretty convinced that it was ITB but not the 'usual' presumed rubbing against knob of bone thing but rather a strain on the ligaments that attach the lower end to the bone.

(Last year riding fixed audax at the same time as trying to run gave me shin splints instead - I only tend to have one debilitating syndrome at a time for which I'm thankful.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 28 May, 2012, 04:24:42 pm
Apparently I was 3 seconds off my Parkrun PB this Sat. Quite happy, as I'm not sure I was recovered from the BCM. On Sunday I had notable calf soreness on a long [bike] climb - never had that before, must be the running.

[I say apparently, as official time was about 6 seconds slower than my stopwatch, and I never remember to press Stop until well after the line. But hey, it's just for fun, right? ]

Still working on the calf/knee pain issue ...  :-\
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 29 May, 2012, 04:02:26 pm
Nice work Matt :)

I'm now done and in plaster, which I'm already horribly annoyed with. But hopefully worth it :)

They have repaired my PF rupture, scraped my nodules, and moved a few nerves/tendons around and released them, drilling in to a couple of bones which apparently will help heal them.

2 weeks in plaster- I'm now on day 5 and getting frustrated. Have been going to the gym but its somewhat restrictive with what you can do!!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 29 May, 2012, 04:25:34 pm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/9272798/Man-runs-half-marathon-in-a-hot-air-balloon.html
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 30 May, 2012, 09:16:35 am
2 weeks in plaster- I'm now on day 5 and getting frustrated. Have been going to the gym but its somewhat restrictive with what you can do!!!

Whenever anyone accuses me of having an exercise addiction, this will be used as a contrast to show I am within normal range.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 30 May, 2012, 09:34:40 am
2 weeks in plaster- I'm now on day 5 and getting frustrated. Have been going to the gym but its somewhat restrictive with what you can do!!!

Whenever anyone accuses me of having an exercise addiction, this will be used as a contrast to show I am within normal range.

Yes do take it easy and let yourself recover from the operation properly - I'd hate to be your foot Lady C!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 30 May, 2012, 09:37:45 am
I might pop over and challenge her to an arm-wrestle.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 30 May, 2012, 09:38:49 am
I've been doing cardio on the arm bike and doing upper body weights/core- my foot isn't getting used, its just sitting sleeping in its cast.

Matt, come on over I'm ready, I feel like popeye :) :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 30 May, 2012, 09:43:32 am
Really enjoyed the Northants Ultra on Sunday despite (or is that because of) it being hot and hilly - only damage seems to wobbly legs and a blister. I am going to have to resist the temptation to enter anymore of these for a while or I can see myself getting slower and slower over longer and longer distances just like audax and that isn't supposed to be the plan.

8 hour 13 min for 35 miles. Report here (http://gastroplodder.vegebear.com/blog/).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 30 May, 2012, 09:49:57 am
I've been doing cardio on the arm bike and doing upper body weights/core- my foot isn't getting used, its just sitting sleeping in its cast.

Hmmm - maybe just sleeping, maybe worrying itself sick about what's going to happen after it's release from protective custody  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gus on 30 May, 2012, 04:47:04 pm
Finally pain free. I managed a 45 minutes run today without pain in my shin, so I'm back in  business
but there are some way back to where I were 4 weeks ago.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 07 June, 2012, 11:56:13 am
From the ParkRun newsletter:

Most memorable or funniest parkrun moment:   Would be my first parkrun at Crystal Palace when I ran with my then 22 month old son. I arrived at the start and asked if it was OK to run with the buggy, I was told it would be fine, but asked to start at the back so as not to get in the way of the faster runners. To the surprise of the race director and volunteers we finished the hilly course in a respectable time of 22:19 and 3rd lady.


Anyone fancy beating that?  :o
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 07 June, 2012, 12:13:03 pm
Liz Yelling does the Poole one very regularly Matt, she does usually about 18.15-18.30 whilst pushing daughter Ruby. I'd get nowhere near that pushing a buggy lol, but give me a few weeks and I'll take down the 22.xx buggy ;)

There is a lovely lady that does the Hampshire based ones with her huskies. She won the Newbury one on Tuesday in 18 mins with her doggies :)

Hows everyones running going? My plaster comes off tomorrow woohoo so might get an idea of how long till I can get the trainers on.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 07 June, 2012, 12:36:05 pm
I'd get nowhere near that pushing a buggy lol, but give me a few weeks and I'll take down the 22.xx buggy ;)

Don't forget to put a kid in there!

Quote
There is a lovely lady that does the Hampshire based ones with her huskies. She won the Newbury one on Tuesday in 18 mins with her doggies :)
I think we all know that the dog "runners" are actually being pulled along - especially with something like huskies  >:(

 ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 07 June, 2012, 12:46:12 pm
They are indeed, she's quite a bit faster with the huskies. The guy in 2nd who she beat on Tuesday really kicked off about it (its a parkrun FFS!!!!). The question has been asked of PSH (Mr parkrun) and he's quite happy for the dogs to run :)

I want a husky :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gandalf on 08 June, 2012, 06:37:36 am
I bought myself a new pair of running shoes last week, which has made life more comfortable.  I did laugh when they tried to flog me a pair of insoles to go with them for £45 though.

Still painfully slow but I can now run for one hour without stopping (I use the term 'run' loosely)

The less good news is that where I have been running to work I've been on the bike a lot less.  Planning a long pootle tomorrow though, weather forecast looks promising.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 09 June, 2012, 02:59:33 pm
5km walk/jog/run this afternoon (more of walk/jog, less of run)

35min 19 secs!   :thumbsup:

Tried my new running shorts too! I reckon they made me faster!   :)

Must try this parkrun sometime, although the nearest one for me is in Edinburgh.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 09 June, 2012, 04:13:47 pm
Did my third Parkrun this morning (third consecutive week, in fact). Really enjoying it - not something I ever imagined I'd say about running.

Our local one (Whitstable) is two laps of a course that goes along the prom (eastwards) then back along the top of Tankerton Slopes - http://www.parkrun.org.uk/whitstable/course

I started doing it partly as a way to persuade my son to do some exercise in the rugby close season, and I'm pleased to say he's really taken to it.

We ride down to the start together, and afterwards do any errands we need to do in town before riding home, so that's a good ten miles cycling on top of the run. A great way to start a Saturday. Having the organisational structure and the set time and place makes it so much easier to motivate yourself to get out and do it. And my son's keenness makes it harder for me to bottle it...

First time out, I set a pace of 5min/km on my Forerunner and finished almost bang on target in 24:56. That pace felt quite comfortable, so next time I pushed a bit harder and used the easterly wind to blow me back to the finish after the turn, so I clocked 23:44, with a 4:14 final km, which I was pretty pleased with.

Didn't do quite so well today - about halfway between those two times. The wind was a stiff westerly, which made the final leg very hard work. But what's really galling is that my son beat me for the first time. And not only that, he beat my PB by 12 seconds!

Race on... ;D

d.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 09 June, 2012, 04:28:11 pm
Being able to ride for 24hours (almost) non-stop makes it very frustrating to only jog for 40mins  >:(

Try to put a more positive spin on it...

The main reason I want to do more running is that my cycling fitness is such that I need to ride harder and longer to get the exercise benefit; I can get the same exercise benefit from a shorter time spent running (at least, that's how it feels).

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gandalf on 09 June, 2012, 04:28:43 pm
Mmmm, makes my 29:22 look even more pathetic.  :-[  That was my first one though.

I'm hoping it will get better once I've sussed out the art of pacing- and getting fitter of course.

Which Forerunner have you got?  There seem to loads of the blighters.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 09 June, 2012, 05:07:22 pm
Mmmm, makes my 29:22 look even more pathetic.  :-[  That was my first one though.

It's not pathetic at all! If you're running for fitness rather than racing, the challenge to run faster is purely personal and what anyone else does has no bearing on your performance. I'm quite fit at the moment, but still no "athlete" - at least not in running terms. I'm just pleased if I can beat my own time each week. I admit it does feel good to get a high placing in my age group, but that's not the important thing and not why I do it.

Quote
Which Forerunner have you got?  There seem to loads of the blighters.

405CX. I've only had it a few weeks. I think it's been superseded by the 410, but this was an eBay purchase. You have to be careful because some of the prices on eBay are very silly.

I find the Virtual Partner feature very useful for running - you set a pace and it tells you how far ahead or behind you are, both overall and per kilometre (or mile, if you prefer), so you can speed up or slow down accordingly.

I think it will take a while to really get a feel for pacing and cadence. I'm tempted to get a Footpod to help with that, but I'm not sure it would be worth the cost...

Does anyone else use a footpod? Are they worthwhile?

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 09 June, 2012, 05:48:17 pm
V.nearly broke 23mins this morning. Very windy, must have cost me those few seconds  :D I'm usually almost last in my age category, but towards the front of the ladies (this is completely unplanned, I promise).

But more interestingly:
They are indeed, she's quite a bit faster with the huskies. The guy in 2nd who she beat on Tuesday really kicked off about it (its a parkrun FFS!!!!). The question has been asked of PSH (Mr parkrun) and he's quite happy for the dogs to run :)

I want a husky :)
Got stuck behind a husky (and some bloke being towed) for the first couple of km. Then when they finished, the dog tried to take out half of the finishing funnel  :facepalm:

All good fun. (If I had a tow-vehicle dog, I'd definitely go back to starting a minute after the whistle. But it's no big deal ... )
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 09 June, 2012, 06:03:52 pm
I'm usually almost last in my age category, but towards the front of the ladies (this is completely unplanned, I promise).

Last week, when I set my PB, I was taking pace off a fellow runner for most of the second lap. The fact that my fellow runner was an attractive female is entirely coincidental.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 09 June, 2012, 06:08:46 pm
The CTT have rules specifically to stop that sort of fun.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jedrik on 09 June, 2012, 06:31:17 pm
Does anyone else use a footpod? Are they worthwhile?
I do, coupled with a simple FR60. I run mostly for fun and to keep in shape, sometimes with friends, often alone on random routes. Without the pod I would not be able to compare effort to speed which in turn gives me a clue about my momentary fitness. I like a bit of book keeping for dailymile and to work out calorie allowances, too.
That said: It does help to keep a sensible pace if competitiveness tries to get the better of good sense when running in a group.   ;)

Funny thing about it: If I wear it on the right shoe, readings are short, worn on the left shoe readings are pretty correct.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 15 June, 2012, 05:10:15 pm
I don't use a footpod.......

Progress for me, but its slow. Plaster is off, but things don't look very nice. I thought I would be back in my normal shoes etc but they weren't happy enough for that and I have a stupid boot thing for 6 god damn weeks, so can't drive during that time.

I am allowed to exchange boot for a cycling shoe, its too sore at the mo for clipping in and out, but I seem ok on a spin bike, clipping the shoe in and then sliding my foot in. Much better than nothing.

I reckon its going to be another 3 months or so before running. But at least things are moving in the right direction.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 15 June, 2012, 10:07:52 pm
I was going to post a nice picture of my foot but I can't work out how to post pictures. Boohoo
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 16 June, 2012, 10:00:05 am
Woo! New PB - 22mins 36secs. That felt great!

Thinking about the footpod thing, I'm not sure it would really do what I want anyway - I really need some kid of metronome type device. Either that of just do more running until I get a better feel for pacing...

d.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 16 June, 2012, 01:07:31 pm
Woo! New PB - 22mins 36secs. That felt great!

Having uploaded my data, I wasn't entirely surprised to see that my average HR for the run was 162bpm, and my max 183 (sprint finish), which wasn't quite flat out. So still room for improvement I reckon...

I'm still absolutely buzzing from today's run though - swimming in endorphins! ;D

Might give it a miss next weekend though and do a bike time trial instead...

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gandalf on 17 June, 2012, 10:31:20 am
Well done!  :thumbsup:

I managed to do 10K before breakfast this morning, shame about the time but at least it is progress.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 23 June, 2012, 01:22:42 pm
A bit to windy for cycling today (at least that was my excuse for not going for a cycle...)
Instead, a short run before lunch:

I did my usual loop, 5.5km according to bikehike, 37 minutes 5 sec.  :thumbsup:

 :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 23 June, 2012, 02:02:53 pm
No parkrun today as I didn't get in from work until after 01.00 this morning.
Going out shortly for my 9km section of the Greensand relay race from Clophill though.
Enjoying the offroad running routes at the moment, there's a trail half marathon in Royston in a couple of months that I like the sound of :)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 23 June, 2012, 02:46:06 pm
So who did parkruns today?

Yup, I was too late entering the TT so did the parkrun as usual, though no PB this week - running into a very strong headwind on the return leg made it hard work. Enjoyed it as usual though.

I like the 5k distance - long enough to be interesting but short enough that you can go at it quite hard all the way - but I'm getting to the point where I'm keen to step it up a bit... There's a 7.5 mile trail round the local woods with nicely varied terrain (ie lots of up and down, some of it quite steep) that would make a good route. Tempted to have a go at that tomorrow, if my legs are up to it (I've also done a lot of commuting miles on the bike this week, so quite tired).

Quote
Still in my stupid roboboot thing- seeing surgeon a week on Friday so hope to get it off then :) Hoping to find out how long it will be before running again. Marathons may be on hold though as I have big health problems (again) and will need treatment. Just feels like I'll never get back running properly. Fed up.

Sorry to hear that, must be very frustrating. Hope it all works out for you, sooner or later.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gandalf on 07 July, 2012, 01:55:17 pm
I did my second Parkrun today.  Time is down to 28.12 from 29.22... progress of sorts I suppose.

I've started having a look for a 10k later in the year, probably come unstuck but it's good to have something to aim for.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 07 July, 2012, 02:29:58 pm
Well done, Gandalf, that is good progress - knocking over a minute off your time is a significant improvement (1min = 12secs per km).

Slightly disappointed with my performance this morning - it wasn't a bad time (22:50, only 14secs off my PB), but I'd set my VP to 22:30 pace and every time I looked at it, I'm sure it said I was ahead... ???

Anyway, I enjoyed the run so I'm not too bothered.

My son's school friend seems to run consistently around the 22min mark, and finished 30secs ahead of me today, so I'll use him as a pacer next time instead of relying on my Garmin.

d.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 08 July, 2012, 07:11:52 pm
Milton Keynes Half Marathon today. My first run in over a month.
I arrived at the last minute and started at the back of the field which meant a mile or two of cross country running to get past the slow runners. My legs didn;t feel as if they'd recovered from the last 3 weeks of cycling and I could feel them after a mile. I thought I was in for a tough run but they were OK once I got into it. My feet blistered in the arches, as they do, especially with no recent running miles. It took me 2-3 miles to get into it and after 5 or 6 I really got into it, upped the pace and enjoyed it. But my lack of running miles caught up with me at about 11 miles and I slowed down again. Up to mile 12 and a went for it for the last mile.
I thought that the finish would be in the same place as the start and gave it the last bit of effort, only to find I had about 2-300m to go, now in oxygen debt from my efforts. ::-)
I slowed a bit, recovered a bit and launched my last attack.

1hr 49mins 40secs. My fastest of 3 this year by 2-3 minutes and about 7 minutes slower than my best.

Rich Forrest beat me by 2 mins 15 secs with his 1hr 47mins 25 secs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: NikW on 08 July, 2012, 08:14:04 pm
Milton Keynes Half Marathon today. My first run in over a month.
I arrived at the last minute and started at the back of the field which meant a mile or two of cross country running to get past the slow runners. My legs didn;t feel as if they'd recovered from the last 3 weeks of cycling and I could feel them after a mile. I thought I was in for a tough run but they were OK once I got into it. My feet blistered in the arches, as they do, especially with no recent running miles. It took me 2-3 miles to get into it and after 5 or 6 I really got into it, upped the pace and enjoyed it. But my lack of running miles caught up with me at about 11 miles and I slowed down again. Up to mile 12 and a went for it for the last mile.
I thought that the finish would be in the same place as the start and gave it the last bit of effort, only to find I had about 2-300m to go, now in oxygen debt from my efforts. ::-)
I slowed a bit, recovered a bit and launched my last attack.

1hr 49mins 40secs. My fastest of 3 this year by 2-3 minutes and about 7 minutes slower than my best.

Rich Forrest beat me by 2 mins 15 secs with his 1hr 47mins 25 secs.

Well done both of you - I was a good 6 minutes behind you though really enjoyed the event just taking it a bit easy and treating it as a training run. Great to run a whole half marathon in MK without getting rained on! MattC and I are running a stage of the Real Relay (http://www.endurancelife.com/realrelay/) on Thursday - Crowmarsh Gifford to Henley - so I was using that as an excuse not to trash my legs today.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 08 July, 2012, 08:41:26 pm
Was a good run in great weather. Saw neither of you there, though I did look about in case you were.
I tried using gels today, but they had me walking and jogging bits at about the halfway mark feeling rough. Just like on an audax a couple of yrs ago when it felt like it was just sitting there and not digesting.
More trial and error needed.
Was running about a 4.40min/km avg until about halfway, finished at about 5min/km

Rich

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 14 July, 2012, 04:14:35 pm
Went over to Northampton for the Parkrun with the club today.
Nice flat course compared to MK and got a PB of 21.20 down 1.18 from from my best time.
May have gone too fast at the start with 2 x 4min KMs, as I found I was slowing down for the last 3 which were roughly 25s slower.
Either way, well happy with the PB  :thumbsup:
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 21 July, 2012, 06:25:48 pm
Nice one!

No PB for me today but a good time in the rain - I'll settle for sub 23mins.

d.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 11 August, 2012, 10:27:23 am
21.43 on today's parkrun - 28 seconds off my previous PB, and in the two months since I started doing parkrun, I've got three whole minutes quicker. The American swimming coach is raising his eyebrows. ;D

Really good conditions today, which helped - warm and sunny, and a bit of a tailwind on the return leg. First km was 4.13, middle three were around 4.30 and the last km was 4.09. Reckon I can get that under four minutes.

d.



Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 26 August, 2012, 05:33:28 pm
Praise the Lord!!!!!!

I still don't Know if I'll get back to proper running, but finally, I ran a whole mile on Friday, and a whopping 1.5 miles today.

It feels strange with cyclist thighs.

Sticking to my racing flats for now, the less touching the bottom of my foot the better. I want running back so much. That 1st mile on Friday, a whole 7 minutes running lol was the best feeling ever
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 26 August, 2012, 05:57:31 pm
Depends on whether "proper running" means
"100 miles or further" ...

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 26 August, 2012, 06:10:42 pm
Marathon or further I guess.....

But I'm taking it a distance at a time for now..... 5k first :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 26 August, 2012, 06:18:04 pm
For Lord's Sake, take it easy until mid-September! We don't to hear about any injuries - make sure you get that SR before you're lured back to these lesser pasttimes!

p.s. just checked my records ... your initial 'recovery' 5k challenge is to beat 23:02. After that you can start looking at 'proper' running.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 26 August, 2012, 06:37:58 pm
Lol, I just checked how long it took me to run 1.5m and it was 10.20 so I will take up your challenge :) will wait till Tuesday and then go out for a daring 2 miles.

And I'm not sure about this 600, I'm not going to play the lame too tired card, but my knee is a bit bust

All running is proper, it's a proper sport :) it's just that 5/10ks aren't really my thing- it takes me that long to warm up!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 27 August, 2012, 05:34:06 pm
There seemed to be an urban orienteering race through our estate this morning. I was out testing some gear fettling, and was suddenly surrounded by somewhat 'veteran' looking folks with sweatbands and small folded maps crushed in one hand. Average speeds suggested they were out for a long time.

They were going in at least 6 different directions, so either most were lost, or there were a number of checkpoints fairly nearby. I really wanted to ask one for more details, but they looked immersed in the zone (and quite scary).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 27 August, 2012, 09:12:13 pm
Been too busy getting a job to update, but the short version is that the vivobarefoots seem to mess up my ankles at anything over 7km. NB MT110s mess up my ITB anything over 7km, and I'm fine up to at least 22km in the old Asics I started off with. Basically, so long as I only do lunchtime runs in the lightweight shoes, and keep the boats for commuting in, I'm fine.

This minimalist thing really hasn't worked for me. I suspect it's a mix of my minuscule impulse control (too much fun to run in, no point telling me to take it slow) and the wrong shoes (MT110s sloping footbed makes my knees sore really quick). two pairs of relatively unused shoes sitting in the hall means I'll be waiting a while before another experiment.

Feels great to be back running without pain. I'd like to get some decent length runs in before I move up north. Hoping to be within running distance of Ilkley Moor - new head of dept is a keen fell runner (and scarily quick!).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 28 August, 2012, 09:32:05 am
There are few people who can get away with the minimalist thing. Your form/technique needs to be pretty much verging on perfect. Glad you are running without pain though :)

I got to the heady heights of 3k this morning.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 28 August, 2012, 11:53:46 am
Praise the Lord!!!!!!

I still don't Know if I'll get back to proper running, but finally, I ran a whole mile on Friday, and a whopping 1.5 miles today.

Well done!

Quote
That 1st mile on Friday, a whole 7 minutes running lol was the best feeling ever

Slacker! A 7min mile is a decent time for most people - must feel a bit slow to you.  ;D

All running is proper, it's a proper sport :) it's just that 5/10ks aren't really my thing- it takes me that long to warm up!

I've been pondering what would be the cycling equivalent of a 5k run and I reckon a 10 mile TT would be about right. Funny, though - I've never really been tempted by the idea of a 10 mile TT, and yet since I've started doing Parkrun, I've found that 5k is very much my thing when it comes to running. I'm tempted to try some longer distances but I suspect I wouldn't enjoy them so much.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 29 August, 2012, 05:43:30 pm
7 minute mile is speedwork for me!

Did a 17.5km run on a mix of road and trail yesterday - no pain at all, and fine today. Fingers crossed, I'm out of the woods. Going to be a while before I don't feel panicky at the first twinge, but does feel like I'm actually injury free at the moment.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 29 August, 2012, 05:50:34 pm
I've been pondering what would be the cycling equivalent of a 5k run and I reckon a 10 mile TT would be about right. Funny, though - I've never really been tempted by the idea of a 10 mile TT, and yet since I've started doing Parkrun, I've found that 5k is very much my thing when it comes to running.
In terms of time they line-up pretty well. You won't know about the 10miles until you try one!

This sort of highlights an interesting question for me - how come Parkrun is soooooo much more popular than local 10mile TTs. Particularly with novices. Some of these people can't do 5km without walking - and yet anyone that's done some cycling can ride 10 flat miles.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 29 August, 2012, 06:22:19 pm
Parkruns are easily accessable compared to even a club TT, where you have to pay an entry fee and be a member of a cycling club. I think that running events have more in common with sportives. Anyone can join in. Parkruns can be sociable too, you can run with your mates. Can't do that in a TT unless it's a team TT.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 29 August, 2012, 06:33:30 pm
Parkruns are easily accessable compared to even a club TT,
I would say the difference is very small:

where you have to pay an entry fee
Typically £2/£3? (£1 not long ago) - that's less than most spend in the caff afterwards, and less than almost any gym/leisure centre session.


and be a member of a cycling club.
No, not really. Some events, yes. The distinction is probably hard to discover, I admit!

Parkruns can be sociable too, you can run with your mates. Can't do that in a TT unless it's a team TT.
It's only 25 minutes! There's more time spend chatting/warming up before/after. And you get to look at the results board for a TT (if you want to - you can ignore it if you want). You have to be the same speed to run together, I don't see a lot of that on Parkrun (some - yes).

So I think all your points are relevant, but I don't think they are deal-breakers. I think it's more about the image; what people THINK is the case.

Cycle-sport is still not "something anyone can do". The Londo Marathon and the like have done a great job over recent decades of making amateur running a "normal" thing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 29 August, 2012, 07:30:36 pm
I wouldn't do a parkrun if it cost £3. (The CTT levy is £2 per rider as of this year, so the absolute minimum for a club 10 would be about £2.50)

You can ride one of the "Come and Try It" events as a non club member. We have to have the name and address of each rider on record too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 29 August, 2012, 07:46:13 pm
Yebbut you're abnormally tight, and expect to ride 800km for that money!

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 29 August, 2012, 07:50:15 pm
OK.
You win. ;D
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 29 August, 2012, 09:00:46 pm
I concur with everything Lady C said, plus the fact that my local Parkrun is a lovely route along the seafront while my local 10 is along a horrible stretch of dual carriageway.

Actually, I would love to have a go at the local 10 but it's on a Wednesday evening and I can't ever get there in time cos of work, hence I've never got round to it.

I reckon I could do a 10 on my road bike in around 26-27 minutes. My 5k time is under 22 minutes but I don't think I could do a 10 in that time without a proper TT bike.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 31 August, 2012, 09:53:07 am
Citoyen- you *need* a proper TT bike :) I think you generally ride about the same pace as me (?) and with a TT bike, silly helmet etc I can ride 22 mins for a 10.

I did 4k this morning. Still painfree :) :) :) :) Next Saturday I am going to try a parkrun. Never did I think I would get so excited about a 5k- they may not have been my 'thing' before, but they are going to be now :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 05 September, 2012, 10:04:38 am
5k done this morning :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gandalf on 05 September, 2012, 11:18:08 am
Did fives miles yesterday, arches OK but now my heels are hurting again.  Back on bike today.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 05 September, 2012, 01:04:04 pm
Well done, both of you!

Lady C - yes, I really need a TT bike but I'm not sure my wife would agree...

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Dibdib on 05 September, 2012, 01:08:37 pm
The more I read this thread, the more I think I really should get off my arse on Saturday morning and go do another Parkrun. I can't remember my time from the last one, but it was shamefully embarassing - I think I was 101st out of 103 or something like that  :facepalm:

All I can promise now is setting the alarm clock!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 05 September, 2012, 01:12:08 pm
There's nothing shameful about actually getting off your arse and doing a 5k run first thing on a Saturday morning, however long it takes - doing any form of regular exercise is more than a lot of people manage.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Dibdib on 05 September, 2012, 01:22:04 pm
Well I just managed to dig out my 5k PB from the depths of my email archive... My first Parkrun was 40:43 and the second was 36:14. Both probably consisted of more walking than running!

Now where did I hide my trainers...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 05 September, 2012, 01:27:26 pm
Nothing shameful about those times. There's no way I'll ever knock four minutes off my PB in one go! ;)

Obviously a wee bit of room for improvement, but that will come naturally if you make it a regular habit.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gandalf on 05 September, 2012, 01:30:44 pm
I haven't been able to do one for many weeks due to my evil paymasters making me work Saturdays  :'(  Only two more left to do though :thumbsup:

I'm not sure challenging my son in law on my first one back is wise, but you've got to have a punt haven't you?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 07 September, 2012, 10:12:20 am
There's a good reader's letter in today's Parkrun email:

"Hello parkrun,
Having not realised that the Redcar parkrun was cancelled on Saturday 18th August, I along with around another 10 people turned up to a deserted Locke Park. Once we realised that the event wasn't on that day we decided to do the run anyway. We all dutifully lined up at the start line and off we went after a call of ready, set, go. Coming through to the finish line one of the more experienced (faster) runners was at the finish line with his stop watch shouting out our times as we went through whilst other runners had stayed to cheer us through the finish line. I am new to parkrun but I have to say this was easily my favourite parkrun so far.
Cheers,
Emma Bailey "

Makes me wonder why anyone needs barcodes, scanners, marshalls, finish funnels, websites, sponsors ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Dibdib on 07 September, 2012, 10:22:23 am
There's a good reader's letter in today's Parkrun email:

"Hello parkrun,
Having not realised that the Redcar parkrun was cancelled on Saturday 18th August, I along with around another 10 people turned up to a deserted Locke Park. Once we realised that the event wasn't on that day we decided to do the run anyway. We all dutifully lined up at the start line and off we went after a call of ready, set, go. Coming through to the finish line one of the more experienced (faster) runners was at the finish line with his stop watch shouting out our times as we went through whilst other runners had stayed to cheer us through the finish line. I am new to parkrun but I have to say this was easily my favourite parkrun so far.
Cheers,
Emma Bailey "

Makes me wonder why anyone needs barcodes, scanners, marshalls, finish funnels, websites, sponsors ...

I totally agree, although I suspect the barcodes and scanners and whatnot are just the means to an end of getting those ten - or fifty, or a hundred and fifty - people in the same place at the same time. I think Parkrun's biggest sucess is creating a sociable "event" out of what can be a pretty solitary activity, especially as that's what puts me off running on my own.

This is why I'm happy to tolerate the (not that obtrusive, in my limited opinion) sponsorship at Parkruns: it's preferable to paying someone so I can run slowly around a park, but equally I'm grateful that there's someone doing all the legwork and organisational stuff so I don't have to.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 07 September, 2012, 10:28:33 am
I agree about the sponsorship - it's very un-overbearing, and non-intrusive (I need a dictionary/thesaurus).

Now while _I_ don't give a fig about websites and finish funnels, I suspect they are what attracts a LOT of parkrunners. So they're contributing to the events' success. As you say - it's about getting a load of people together, not just the few luddites like me.

[But I still like the idea of grass-roots sport that doesn't require loads of support from non-participants ... ]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 07 September, 2012, 11:15:47 am
For me, the organisation is very much part of the attraction of parkrun - having a set time and place to do the run motivates me to get out and do it more than if I were left to my own devices. It's also good to run with other people rather than on your own - I usually find myself running with someone of similar pace. A couple of weeks ago, I fell into step with another runner and as she flagged towards the end, I was able to give her encouragement to keep going. So there's that camaraderie too.

I do my own timing anyway, but having the official times and placings on the website just adds to the fun - though I can imagine being timed might put some people off.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Dibdib on 08 September, 2012, 11:22:15 am
Bah, parkrun fail this morning. Cycled down to Westbury yesterday to do the Trowbridge run with a friend, but I packed after a lap. I was getting a bit of a niggle in my knees, and knowing I had a 35 mile ride home this afternoon I thought better safe than sorry.

Just waiting for Dev's result email to come through - I'm pretty sure he's beaten my PB on his first ever 5k, and might even be sub 30 mins. Git.  :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 08 September, 2012, 12:41:53 pm
Ran my first one back today. Started very tentatively, just kept it nice and easy the whole way, felt strange to run at chatting pace but I was just so pleased to be at a 'race'!!!

Made it round fine, foot survived, I dont want to put any more than that through it at the moment though, I think it only has 3-4 miles in it for now. Time fwiw was 21.40, I think I will just try and take 5-10 seconds a mile off each week until I get my confidence back, I'm too scared to try any faster running!
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 08 September, 2012, 02:54:44 pm
Time fwiw was 21.40

21.30 for me - new PB! And very much *not* "chatting pace" (average HR 175bpm, and 185bpm for the final km). Very pleased with my time though.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: welshwheels on 08 September, 2012, 07:34:42 pm
(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/423945_353788751372697_1099627364_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 09 September, 2012, 12:51:53 pm
Woke up too late to go on the club ride this morning but it's too nice out there to be cooped up indoors, so I went for a run instead - chose the long trail round the local woods as my route, which claims to be 7.5 miles (ie about 12km). Set my pacer for 5min/km, thinking that would be a sustainable pace. After 6km, roughly the halfway point, I was bang on that pace. Of course, the loop is mostly downhill on the way out, and mostly uphill on the way back...

I measured it at a touch over 13km on my Garmin, which included a small diversion where I missed a signpost, and it took me a total of 1:09:33. I'm pleased with that, especially as the terrain is quite heavy going in places - not to mention steep!

That's by far the longest I've run in one go for a very long time - probably since I had to do the cross country at school. Most enjoyable it was too.

I've now decided to set myself the goal of getting that down to under an hour - I reckon that should be quite achievable if I come at it fresh - my legs were feeling a bit heavy after my efforts on yesterday's parkrun. I also did about 50km on the Brompton yesterday afternoon.

I'm actually getting quite into this running lark.   :thumbsup:

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ewan Houzami on 09 September, 2012, 01:23:57 pm
I wish I could cover that sort of distance now! I've been running on and off for the last couple of years, and aim to step it up a bit more over winter as I wind down the cycling, but I still find it hard to go out on a slow jog for more than half an hour before some part of my legs/feet/hips give up. Seven years ago I could manage six mile runs with no ill effects off the back of a few 2 mile jogs and an endurance base through cycling.

There is no reason why I shouldn't be able to run that sort of distance and more again, but it's just not happening. I've done the walk/run thing, intervals, hills, and am perhaps half a stone heavier than I'd like. I'm fit enough on a bike (but not as much as I was), but I just don't seem to improving. And it takes my legs a week to recover from my measly three miles. It's quite frustrating as, like Citoyen, I really want to get into it.

Bugger it. Sun's out. I'm off for a ride!

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 09 September, 2012, 04:43:13 pm
Goldilocks, I'm in a very similar perplexment! A few pages back you'll see many posts about my ongoing niggles, but basically I've only just managed ~50mins pain-free - and that's at a really plodding pace.[yet I used to be able to do 90mins-ish, weighing 2 stone more. I could probably do more back then, just never really tried.]

Parkrun is a real bonus, cos I seem to be able to do 5km flat-out (i.e. pathetically slow by "runner" standards, but at least my heart-rate confirms I'm trying).

There seems to be no link between my running and my cycling experience. It's very odd.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ewan Houzami on 09 September, 2012, 05:37:48 pm
Mattc. Why does this happen?! I'm built like a bloomin' runner too, but feel like an effin' carthorse when I get going. One good thing I've discovered going back through this thread is this Parkrun malarkey. I've just looked at their site and guess what?  A new one started up yesterday around Hilly Fields in Brockley (which must be all of fifty yards from my front door)! As Saturday is generally my 'run' day, this couldn't be more perfect.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gus on 09 September, 2012, 05:59:27 pm
I'm absolutely NOT build like a runner,(more like Obelix) but I started running earlier this year. I have just finished my first 1/2 Marathon today. Time is modest compared to many of you 2.30,31, but remember I'm still a fat git trying to loose weight.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 10 September, 2012, 07:46:18 am
Rich Forrest was a bit bigger than he is now when he started running. Back then, I was a bit faster than him. But where I did the odd run now and then, Rich stuck at it and did regular runs. He did short runs at regular intervals and built up on that where I just went for a long run (for me) Rich got faster and lost weight. He's faster than me now and probably in much better shape after a half marathon. I'm no faster at running than I was 2 years ago but I don't really do much of it.
Little and often then building up on that seems to be the way to go.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 10 September, 2012, 11:09:31 am
Parkrun is a real bonus, cos I seem to be able to do 5km flat-out (i.e. pathetically slow by "runner" standards, but at least my heart-rate confirms I'm trying).

My colleagues are suitably impressed when I tell them my parkrun PB, but then you get someone like Lady Cav doing about the same time and calling it "chatting pace". Makes you realise just how huge the gulf is between us diletantes and proper athletes.  ;D

Quote
There seems to be no link between my running and my cycling experience. It's very odd.

That's normal, isn't it? You use different muscles, and use them in a different way, right? I have good base fitness thanks to the cycling, but my relative level of performance is much higher on a bike.

Weight seems to be much more critical a factor for running than it is for cycling. OK, so you can't go up hills so quick on a bike when you're carrying a few extra pounds but you can still do a decent speed on the flat. With running, it's hard even on the flat when you're overweight - especially on the knees. This is why I hated running for years and have only recently started to be able to enjoy it, since I've lost weight.

The thing that struck me about my longer run yesterday was that I may not have been quick, but I had the stamina and the willpower to keep going. That certainly would not have been the case two years ago. Having said that, 13km is quite a step up from 5km. Maybe a more intermediate distance would be better for the time being...

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 10 September, 2012, 11:18:51 am
I'm absolutely NOT build like a runner,(more like Obelix) but I started running earlier this year. I have just finished my first 1/2 Marathon today. Time is modest compared to many of you 2.30,31, but remember I'm still a fat git trying to loose weight.

That's really not a bad time at all.  :thumbsup:

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 10 September, 2012, 11:28:26 am
Quote
There seems to be no link between my running and my cycling experience. It's very odd.

That's normal, isn't it? You use different muscles, and use them in a different way, right? I have good base fitness thanks to the cycling, but my relative level of performance is much higher on a bike.
I expect my relative performances to differ. I do more cycling, for one thing.

But they are both aerobic forms of exercise using (mainly) the big muscles below the waist. So they should respond to training in a similar way. And performance over 20-25 minutes should be a good [but not exact] predictor of performance over an hour (within the same activity!).

On a bike, most TTers have a PB average speed only slightly lower for 25 miles than 10. They don't expect to struggle to even complete the 25.

(You would expect base fitness from one to help a little in the other, but I wouldn't dare to try quantifying this effect.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Karla on 10 September, 2012, 11:30:27 am
On a bike, most TTers have a PB average speed only slightly lower for 25 miles than 10.
I'm fastest over 25  :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 10 September, 2012, 11:31:24 am
Oi!!

Firstly. Big congratulations to Gus on your first half. Great stuff :)

Secondly. This pace thing is all relative. Yes, I find 7mm easy running. But that's because I've been running for years, 100-120 miles every week with a marathon or 2 (or ultra marathon) every weekend. It's not a fair comparison.

I look at all the cyclists on here doing 1200k+ rides and thinking WTF?!?!?! And the same with people who can ride 10m TTs at the 20 min mark. I'll never be able to do that. But then I don't think I'll have the inclination to ever train properly as a cyclist, because I can't find the love for it.

The weight thing is huge within running, and why so many people end up starving themselves. Every pound adds on valuable seconds per mile.

There are some very decent 5k times being thrown around in here, but the whole point of it is just to improve our own times. I've got to find another 4 minutes or so out of my foot to be back where I want to be running, but that doesn't make me a 'proper athlete' lol, just someone whose main sport it is.

However, one thing I will add is that hard running sessions are done HARD. Training runs are just that, and should be run at a training pace. Marathon runners who run say, 7 min miles for the marathon, typically train at 8mm for general running. It's not about trying to break times in routes on training runs! Let's not use me as an example as silly ultra running is a bit different. I'll use my better half. His 5k pace is a smidge over 5 min miling, 10k around 5.15-5.20, half marathon, 5.30 and marathon 5.50ish. His runs during the week (taking out the HARD sessions- tempo/intervals/marathon pace sessions) are all run at 7 min miling or thereabouts.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 10 September, 2012, 11:32:42 am
And yeah Matt, I hate to use myself as any sort of cycling example as I aint no cyclist, but there is 0.3mph between my 10m pace and 25m pace.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 10 September, 2012, 11:37:47 am
There's some interesting variation in terminology here.

I regard ANY exercise as "training" i.e. it has a training effect. Whereas LC seems to describe "training" and "hard" as different things!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 10 September, 2012, 11:38:41 am
All running is 'training'......but not all training sessions should be hard sessions....that's kind of what I meant......
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 10 September, 2012, 11:44:07 am
Watching mighty Mo Farrah run the 5000m put me in my place.
He did it in about half the time it takes me to run a Parkrun. Apparently, the Olympic 5000m final was a "slow" race. :o
I reckon I could get down to 20 min if I did it regular. 17 if I did some training, maybe even 15 if I really got into it. But I still don't think I'd find the extra few minutes to bring me up to Mighty Mo's "jogging" pace!
All good fun though... :D

As for runnng, I like it hard! (ooer missus!)
Not training properly helps make it harder for me. ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 10 September, 2012, 11:55:57 am
There aren't many people who can run a 15 min 5k. That's 4.49mm. The very top club runners can run a sub 16 but they are the proper race winning guys. TG, you should get into it lol!

I'll certainly never break 17- I'll take getting back under 18 though :) I miss those days :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Riggers on 10 September, 2012, 12:04:54 pm
We (as in me and a couple of chums) regularly run on a Saturday morning doing 12k in around 1h 10m. We stop a couple of times at strategic points to get our breaths back. Do we enjoy it? At times. It can vary week to week how good you feel, and I'm only glad we go as a small group because, let's face it… running (or its form of staggering that we use) is boring as hell. That's what I think anyway, and that's with us running around parts of the South Downs at the back of Brighton.

What I don't get with me old psyche, is that I can spend all day cycling on me own quite happily, yet I'd need someone thrashing me quite hard with an umbrella to encourage me to run on me own.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 10 September, 2012, 12:05:17 pm
the whole point of it is just to improve our own times.

Completely agree. I'm getting into running purely for my own benefit, not to race against anyone else. I know there's no point comparing my times to yours (or indeed anyone else's) - it's utterly meaningless, for all the reasons you say, but it's interesting to see what other people are doing as a benchmark.

For me, the main attraction of running is to mix it up a bit - if I'm honest, I've been feeling a tad jaded about the cycling lately, so it's good to have another outlet.

Quote
Marathon runners who run say, 7 min miles for the marathon, typically train at 8mm for general running. It's not about trying to break times in routes on training runs!

I definitely need to work on my pacing for longer runs. 5k is easier because, as mattc says, you can go more or less flat out the whole way, but I can see you need an element of strategy in your approach to longer runs. It took me years to work out my pacing strategy for 200km+ audaxes, so I don't expect to pick it up straight away in running...

Quote
His runs during the week (taking out the HARD sessions- tempo/intervals/marathon pace sessions) are all run at 7 min miling or thereabouts.

That's interesting - a lot slower than race pace, then. I shall bear that in mind.

mattc - I don't think of it as "training" unless you have a specific goal in sight that you're working towards, and you're tailoring your runs towards preparing for that goal. I suppose in that sense my running is a kind of training because I'd like to ultimately build up to an Ironman, but that's a long way off yet - though maybe it wouldn't be so far off if I focused my running efforts more on that target... I'm very unscientific in my approach.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 10 September, 2012, 12:06:04 pm
Actually, I take that back. I probably could break 17, but I *won't* because I bl**dy hate 5ks and I don't do 5k training!!! All those track sprint things, bleurgh.




TGLC, you should get into it lol!

 :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 10 September, 2012, 12:07:18 pm
So. With all these 5ks being done, who's doing a 10k?!

I might enter one of the local events at some point but in the long term, my sights are set on bigger targets... 10k would be a good stepping stone though.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 10 September, 2012, 12:11:03 pm
I did almost 10km this morning, First run for just over a month though!!
Was up and around the local woods working out a route for the club on Sunday. It's been planned for a few months now so thought I'd better get out again.
Was just under the hr so fairly slow, included hills, mud, jumping puddles and brambles. Great fun  ;D
Have a trail half marathon next weekend over in Royston, that's likely to be slow and hilly also  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 10 September, 2012, 12:11:41 pm
I reckon I could get down to 20 min if I did it regular. 17 if I did some training, maybe even 15 if I really got into it.

Only 8 people have ever run sub-17 on my local parkrun - and that's a very flat course...

I'd like to get down to 20 minutes as a long term aim, but I'm not planning on doing any "training" to achieve it.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 10 September, 2012, 04:06:42 pm
I once ran a 6mm (actually a bit  more than 1m at 6mm pace). My HR peaked at 193. Really can't get it that high on the bike.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 11 September, 2012, 04:04:00 pm
Citoyen I'm sure you'll get down to 20 mins without too much trouble looking at your rate of improvement.

Tuesdays and Saturdays are supposed to be my running days for now. Couldn't do today as I had to have a blood transfusion this morning for some extra iron but I am allowed to run tomorrow :)

Not sure whether to try running a tiny bit quicker, or take it a little bit over 5k. Or just leave it where I am for a bit but that seems a little pointless. I might try a little over 5k. I don't really know what to do!

Can't parkrun this Saturday or next. The one after though I am doing a race for life with my daughters- there might be a few walk breaks in that one ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 12 September, 2012, 08:59:01 am
5.5k this morning. Its ok, but its like I have no foot muscles left in the bust one, its weird. They need building back up again, the foot gets really knackered! Still, progress of sorts I guess.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 15 September, 2012, 11:12:28 am
Woo! Another PB! 21.15 - dead chuffed with that. Feeling that 21 minutes is definitely within reach...

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 21 September, 2012, 01:27:20 pm
Right, statement of intent:
I'm gonna try a double Parkrun tomorrow. Leveraging my getting-out-of-bed-skilz honed last weekend, I'll pre-run the course then join in with the main event to help drag me round the 2nd 5km. I might even get swiped (if I finish) so you can all have a laugh. Or I could swipe at 7.5km and get an 18min PB!

[Excellent, there's a delete post button ... ]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 21 September, 2012, 02:40:18 pm
[Excellent, there's a delete post button ... ]

Excellent, there's a screen grab function... ;)

d.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 22 September, 2012, 12:12:52 pm
Three PBs in a row! And I cracked the 21 minute barrier today - recorded an unofficial time of 20.56. That's pretty much flat out all the way for me. Really buzzing now. Gorgeous morning for it too - crisp and clear. Perfect conditions. I expect quite a few people at Whitstable parkrun will have done a PB today.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 22 September, 2012, 03:16:00 pm
PBs are sooo  last season. I've moved onto new challenges:

Your time was 27:50.
 
Congratulations <blah, blah ... >. You finished in nearly last place and you came dead last in your age category. Your PB remains 22:54.


Job done (and that was despite a - somewhat steady - sprint finish) ;D
Pleased that nothing hurt after 9.5km-ish, and I found a new stretch of riverbank; deserted and peaceful, apart from the practice session for a big motocross meet  ::-) It does seem that a 20min bike ride is my best warmup strategy - which isn't a big problem, but is a hassle clothing-wise on winter mornings. Is this the slippery slope to duathlons?!? I suspect they're the wrong way round!

It was just about warmish at benson café, where I chatted with Manotea and the riders on his Audax events. Smashing morning all-round. :)
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 23 September, 2012, 12:32:44 am
Well done, matt. I've toyed with the idea of extending my Parkrun in similar fashion but haven't done it yet. Sounds like a good way to get a longer run in.

I was right about the stats at Whitstable today - 31 new PBs out of 157 starters (a record attendance), and about 30 first timers too. :thumbsup:

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gandalf on 23 September, 2012, 02:03:13 pm
Now that it's getting decidedly more autumnal and nippy, what does the neophyte runner wear?  Apart from two pairs of shorts and two short sleeved running tops the only other running kit I possess is one long sleeved Ron Hill top and a pair of Ron Hill tracksters. Oh and two smelly Helly base layers I use for cycling.   I s'pose I'll have to get some more gear as the season progresses?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Peter on 23 September, 2012, 02:08:12 pm
Don't get sucked in by the equivalent of mamil, Gandalf; if you've got a washing machine (or a wash-basin!) you've already got enough stuff!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gandalf on 23 September, 2012, 02:30:09 pm
Don't get sucked in by the equivalent of mamil, Gandalf; if you've got a washing machine (or a wash-basin!) you've already got enough stuff!

Very wise! Better than spending money on fags and petrol though and much more fun ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: RichForrest on 23 September, 2012, 02:40:22 pm
Now that it's getting decidedly more autumnal and nippy, what does the neophyte runner wear?

My cycle gear usually, padless bib-longs work also when it gets too cold. Long sleeved jersey with pockets for gels work also.

15 offroad miles for me today, longest run to date also.
32 of us from the local club ran out around Woburn woods and safari park, a bit stop start in places with loopbacks (where the faster runners run back past the tail-bikers) to keep it all together.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: fuaran on 23 September, 2012, 03:00:35 pm
I recently got some Ronhill 3/4 length tights, they are good for keeping my knees warm. Tracksters are good for colder wather.
And Helly base layers are fairly warm. Sometimes also a Montane Featherlite jacket to keep the wind off.

Plus a hat or buff and gloves can help a lot.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feline on 23 September, 2012, 03:10:09 pm
I gave up running a few years back when I had a nasty asthma attack and didn't have my inhaler with me, resulting in a freezing cold crawl home in insufficient clothing for slow walking.
These days the asthma is better under control, but I much prefer running on a treadmill where if I get in trouble I can just stop. How does treadmill running speed and difficulty compare to real life running?
If I get up to a decent pace on it am I likely to be able to reproduce that if I then started running outdoors?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 23 September, 2012, 04:13:11 pm
...
How does treadmill running speed and difficulty compare to real life running?
If I get up to a decent pace on it am I likely to be able to reproduce that if I then started running outdoors?

i find it very similar (15kph is hard work both on the treadmill and outside)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feline on 23 September, 2012, 04:37:00 pm
...
How does treadmill running speed and difficulty compare to real life running?
If I get up to a decent pace on it am I likely to be able to reproduce that if I then started running outdoors?

i find it very similar (15kph is hard work both on the treadmill and outside)

What incline % do you set the treadmill on?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 23 September, 2012, 05:47:28 pm
hmm, zero.. my running "training" was once a week after a spinning class, usually 3km @13kph
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 24 September, 2012, 12:21:34 pm
IME the difference is wind resistance and impact. Running the same pace on tarmac is much harder on my legs (in terms of post exercise discomfort) than running on a treadmill, which has a much more friendly surface.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 28 September, 2012, 01:35:06 pm
Running on a treadmill is never going to be the same as running outside, but there is a time and place for treadmills. However, I'm really against setting them on an incline- you hear a load of rubbish about 1-2% making the same as outside. Nonsense, it can't replicate running outside, but having it on an incline just stresses the achilles. I do use them often though, and of course are good for pace management if you are not good at it.

So. The big one is happening today. Spartathlon. I've never run this but would love to. A few friends have gone out there to run. Lizzy Hawker if anyone has heard of her is having a stormer. Unfortunately, 4 out of my 5 close friends running it have pulled out at 'only' the 30 mile checkpoint. They are all ill and throwing up- all staying in same hotel...... gutted for them.

Will be mainly watching the live feed this afternoon. Brutal race.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 28 September, 2012, 01:40:47 pm
two hundred and forty five kilometres ??  I thought audax was bad!

bonkers.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 28 September, 2012, 02:35:30 pm
It does sound insane to a non-runner, but I expect it's roughly equivalent to doing a 600km audax.

I'm staggered at the record time though - 20hrs 25mins. That's really insane.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 28 September, 2012, 02:52:57 pm
Now I am no longer a 600k virgin, I think that running 150 miles is quite a lot harder than cycling 600k.....just my opinion though.

Your opinion on this matter counts for an awful lot more than mine, given that I've only done one 600km audax and never even run 10 miles...

Reading up a bit more about the Spartathlon, it sounds like a pretty tough route too - not exactly flat, easy terrain!

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 28 September, 2012, 02:55:24 pm
It has pretty harsh cut offs along the way which is what makes it so difficult, its certainly not a race for the average fun runner. No dawdling en route or you're out!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 28 September, 2012, 04:29:43 pm
Back to more modest ambitions...

My overriding goal in life at the moment (apart from finding a new job) is to get my Parkrun time down to 20 minutes. I did my first Parkrun on 26th May this year in 24:56 and set a new PB last week on my 16th Parkrun of 20:56. Four minutes improvement in four months. Quite pleased with that. I suspect shaving off that last minute is going to be a bit harder than the other four, but I'm thinking I might be able to achieve it before my 40th birthday, 29th December - which happens to be a Saturday, and would be my 31st Parkrun if I don't miss any weeks between now and then...

More importantly, having set a PB for three consecutive weeks, I need to set another this week - it occurred to me after last week's run that I might possibly be in line for the monthly prize, which is quite an incentive (the prize being a new pair of running shoes). However, a brief perusal of the results reveals that another runner has also set three consecutive PBs, and over her 22 Parkruns to date has brought her time down from 32:35 to 25:16, breaking her PB 13 times. Personally, if it were me giving out the prizes, I'd probably choose her over me. Dash it! So I reckon my only hope is to set another PB this week and hope she doesn't.  ;D

Anyway, fair play to her if she gets the prize. I'll still be pretty pleased if I can edge another bit closer to that 20 minute mark.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 28 September, 2012, 04:37:36 pm
Citoyen its great improvement indeed. What running are you doing in between the parkruns? Are you wanting to do anything specific to get yourself to a 19.59 (possible quite soon I'd have thought) or are you just going to wait and see if it happens on its own just from doing more parkruns?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 28 September, 2012, 05:13:56 pm
Parkrun is pretty much the only running I'm doing. I'd like to do a bit more, but finding the time to fit it in is the difficulty. One of my fellow commuters (a veteran ironman) runs to Faversham before getting on the train some mornings (about 6 miles), so I could try that.

I just googled for "how to run 5k sub 20 minutes" and that's when I realised it's a very big deal for a lot of people. All these "training plans" and what have you... that's not really my style.  ;D

It'll be a big deal for me too, of course, but I see it as a very realistic, achievable target rather than something that needs special training (but only because I'm already at a decent level of fitness) - it's about 70% on the age graded scale, which I think is a decent standard to aspire to. Now, if it were 19 minutes I were aiming at, that would be another matter...

My usual tactic is just to set the pacer on my Garmin to the time I want to achieve and try to keep up with it. I'll be setting it to 4:12min/km for tomorrow's run (exactly 21 minute pace). The first km is completely flat and usually has a tailwind, so I try to take advantage by setting out quite fast to get some time in the bank, then I settle down to a steady pace for the middle section, and flat out in the home stretch (I've been recording an average HR of 180-185bpm for that final km, so it really is close to maximum effort).

d.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 29 September, 2012, 12:06:06 pm
My nose was running faster than my legs this morning…

And there was a stinker of a headwind in the home straight…

But 21:19 is ok. Maybe I need to temper my expectations a bit!

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 30 September, 2012, 07:17:43 pm
Did 15.08 miles in 1h59m on friday, with my work rucksack on. Was chuffed as it's the furthest I've run so far, and I felt great. Legs have felt okay since. I'm hoping that short lunchtime runs in my vivobarefoots and then longer runs in my Asics on Fridays is a pattern that'll keep me injury free.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 03 October, 2012, 09:42:14 am
Nice one LC. Despite the fact that you make my puny efforts look ... even punyer, that is great news.
Especially the "painfree" bit!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 03 October, 2012, 10:08:23 am
Did 15.08 miles in 1h59m on friday, with my work rucksack on.

Do you have a running-specific rucksack? Any recommendations in that department?

Quote
Was chuffed as it's the furthest I've run so far, and I felt great. Legs have felt okay since.

 :thumbsup:

I didn't even notice my foot. Its still not hurting. Proper painfree today.

 :thumbsup:

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 03 October, 2012, 10:20:29 am
Osprey Talon's are good (they are about £70 though....), and I like my OMM Last drop.

Last drop is great for lower loads - 10/12/15 litre ones. Both of those have hydration bladder doodahs if you want them.

Talon (22l, but actually more like 25l) is fantastic - bit heavier than comparable OMM and Inov8 models, but unlike them, it has a structured back.  It's also good for cycling as well.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 03 October, 2012, 10:27:38 am
Cheers, Lady C. I've just started a specific thread on this subject to open it up a bit (and avoid straying too far off topic here) but that's some good info to be going on with.  :thumbsup:

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gus on 03 October, 2012, 01:53:32 pm
did 5 km today when my achilles tendon started to hurt again, limped home and hope it improves over the next days.
But most likely no running for some time again. :(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 04 October, 2012, 12:04:51 pm
Mine is an old version of this - http://www.asics.co.uk/running/products/trail-running-backpack/ but the do a smaller version with a bladder if you don't need to carry so much. Mine has no bladder but the same straps as both. I carry a change of clothes, lunch, some papers and keys/wallet. It's comfy and very stable but not very light.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 12 October, 2012, 02:21:54 pm
First training run for the #camfunrun next month:

http://my.digifit.com/site/share/workout/cc0f6351146e11e2960c2b04e7f42c64.html#.UHgYea3VHwQ

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 12 October, 2012, 08:17:35 pm
i've signed up for this parkrun last week, but was ill with cold and chest infection till now. i'm curious to see what it's like and also where do i start with f-all training. low twenty min would be nice, but main priority is to finish without injury.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 13 October, 2012, 11:53:32 am
^^ it all went pretty well. gorgeous morning, 15min bike ride to the park for warm-up, started running too fast (no idea about the pace), then settled into my fast_sustainable mode and finished third, in around 20min. my time didn't get taken as i ran past the marshal (instead of turning right in front of him onto the grass), so he thought i'm not part of this run :facepalm:. anyway the guy behind me finished "as it just turned 20", so that's good enough. next time i might take a phone/gps with me.

edit: just received the results; i've been awarded 5th place and the time of 20:25 doh.. next time under 20 - that's for sure! :demon:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 13 October, 2012, 11:57:14 am
My legs hurt.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gandalf on 13 October, 2012, 08:18:53 pm
Oh well, got the PF under control, now my knees hurt like buggery...Google Fu suggest I have runner's knee.  What a bleedin vortex of smeg.

At least I can ride my bike though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 14 October, 2012, 05:29:38 pm

[One interesting thing about this race was that the timing "chips" were printed on bits of paper, which you made into a loop and put through your laces. The timing "mats" however, were like bars 1cm high, 10cm across, proud of the surface - as one bit of the technology gets smaller, so the other gets larger!]

Lucky it's the bit that you have to carry on your foot that's getting lighter then. ;D

Nice one Oranj and good luck in the marathon. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 14 October, 2012, 07:50:53 pm
Good stuff. I was worried yesterday my legs were going to hurt /even more/ today but they seem to be on the mend now. Might do my next run tomorrow.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 14 October, 2012, 09:58:12 pm
I'm on a cycling trip atm but still managed to sneak in a 5k yesterday- 18.37
 


Good God, that's good.
I have to know. Was that in cycling shoes or are you carrying running shoes with you. ;D


Quote
so still heading in right direction which is the main thing

I think I'd consider that time my arrival, never mind the right direction.
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 15 October, 2012, 06:45:22 am
Lol thanks, I'm still a way behind my pre-broken times though. I'll get back there one day I hope.

And good god no, with my stupid foot there is no way on earth I'm running anywhere in cycling shoes. No, I have running trainers and the kitchen sink with me, I'm regretting it every time I see a hill, I feel like I'm pulling a tractor!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 15 October, 2012, 02:59:31 pm
21 mins exactly on Saturday's parkrun. And it felt like serious effort. I only managed that time because I got into a group of four runners and used them to motivate me to keep going. One of them thanked me afterwards for pacing her! Obvious mutual benefits in running in a group rather than solo or on a treadmill. But I'm going to have to start taking this a little more seriously if I really want to get sub-20 mins... I might even have to use the T-word...*

To that end, I went out for a lunchtime run today - along the South Bank, over Westminster Bridge, round St James's Park, back along the north side of the river and across the Millennium Bridge. Roughly 8.5km. Time was about 45 minutes but is immaterial really - I was just taking it at a steady, comfortable pace, plus I had to keep stopping and/or swerving because of the crowds of tourists (especially by the Millennium Wheel), crossing roads, avoiding stepping on pigeons/squirrels/perlicans in St James's Park. But I really enjoyed it. Will have to make it a regular thing - but maybe refine the route to avoid the crowds.  :thumbsup:

I'm thinking I might even do a (kind of) triathlon one day this week - swim in the morning, run at lunchtime and ride after work.

d.

*training - spit!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 15 October, 2012, 03:02:42 pm
Ran in the Oxford Half Marathon today... I was pretty comfortable with a steady 1h29 pace

Impressive! Good work.

edit: just received the results; i've been awarded 5th place and the time of 20:25 doh.. next time under 20 - that's for sure! :demon:

Frustrating! But that's still a time for some of us to be envious of. Well done.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 15 October, 2012, 05:58:35 pm
Lol thanks, I'm still a way behind my pre-broken times though. I'll get back there one day I hope.


It's all relative. I watched Mo Farrah on telly in a hotel doing his Olympic 5k. Apparently, his time, which was about half my 5k time, was a "slow" race. ;D

Quote
And good god no, with my stupid foot there is no way on earth I'm running anywhere in cycling shoes.


Oh, I see. So if your foot was OK, you'd run in your cycling shoes. I understand now. Thanks. ;D
This reminds me of the time some Frenchman tried to steal my bike in Paris and I chased after him in my cycling shoes...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 16 October, 2012, 10:36:50 am
I've had a bit of a case of lazyitis with my running, not having done much in ages.
So to combat this I've stuck the NHS Couch to 5K on my mp3 player, and started again from scratch.

1st week of the program done,and I'm just in from my first run of the second week - 5 min warm up walk, then 90 seconds run followed by 2 mins walk, alternating for 20 minutes.    :thumbsup:

Oh, and my old Edinburgh bicycle pad less bib tights seem quite fine for running in cold, damp weather! 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 16 October, 2012, 04:11:12 pm
Today I went for a run. Felt crap, so did 10K.

http://my.digifit.com/site/share/workout/68acf3b8179311e291b2fff61a7a6b5c.html#.UH1h3LPKuJg
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 16 October, 2012, 04:57:01 pm
Today I went for a run. Felt crap, so did 10K.

http://my.digifit.com/site/share/workout/68acf3b8179311e291b2fff61a7a6b5c.html#.UH1h3LPKuJg

Good effort!

I've not heard of digifit before. Looks interesting. I've been using Strava but I'm going to start using Endomondo again because I've just discovered it syncs with myfitnesspal. There seem to be rather a lot of these personal tracker apps to choose from now.

Went out for another run myself at lunchtime - really felt the need for it after a pretty stressful morning at work. Did basically the same as yesterday but tweaked it slightly to avoid the crowded bits. Fantastic. Felt great afterwards. Really cleared my head nicely. I can't believe I'm actually properly enjoying running now.   ;D

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feline on 16 October, 2012, 07:02:05 pm
Today I went for a run. Felt crap, so did 10K.

http://my.digifit.com/site/share/workout/68acf3b8179311e291b2fff61a7a6b5c.html#.UH1h3LPKuJg

Good effort!

I've not heard of digifit before. Looks interesting. I've been using Strava but I'm going to start using Endomondo again because I've just discovered it syncs with myfitnesspal. There seem to be rather a lot of these personal tracker apps to choose from now.

Went out for another run myself at lunchtime - really felt the need for it after a pretty stressful morning at work. Did basically the same as yesterday but tweaked it slightly to avoid the crowded bits. Fantastic. Felt great afterwards. Really cleared my head nicely. I can't believe I'm actually properly enjoying running now.   ;D

d.

The advantage of Digifit is that their iPhone apps can collect data using a bluetooth polar HR band that also works with equipment in the gym. They can import and share data with/from all sorts of other sources too. There is an ANT+ iPhone dongle that allows the app to use Garmin stuff like cad sensor, Gamin HR band and power tap also  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 16 October, 2012, 07:07:17 pm
The advantage of Digifit is that their iPhone apps can collect data using a bluetooth polar HR band that also works with equipment in the gym. They can import and share data with/from all sorts of other sources too. There is an ANT+ iPhone dongle that allows the app to use Garmin stuff like cad sensor, Gamin HR band and power tap also  :thumbsup:


[luddite]
Fascinating.

I wonder what it means. ???

[/luddite]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feline on 16 October, 2012, 07:10:47 pm
The advantage of Digifit is that their iPhone apps can collect data using a bluetooth polar HR band that also works with equipment in the gym. They can import and share data with/from all sorts of other sources too. There is an ANT+ iPhone dongle that allows the app to use Garmin stuff like cad sensor, Gamin HR band and power tap also  :thumbsup:


[luddite]
Fascinating.

I wonder what it means. ???

[/luddite]

It means I have a big credit card bill because I spent $stupidmoney on too many gadgets  ;D
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 16 October, 2012, 07:34:02 pm
I've been thinking of getting an ANT+ dongle for my iPhone so I can use my Garmin HRM with the Strava/Endomondo apps. They are a bit spendy though. Maybe a Polar Bluetooth HRM is a better option...

If I could use the ANT+ dongle to upload data to Garmin Connect, I would definitely consider it worth having, but I don't think you can do that so it's strictly a luxury item on the wish list.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feline on 16 October, 2012, 07:52:14 pm
I've been thinking of getting an ANT+ dongle for my iPhone so I can use my Garmin HRM with the Strava/Endomondo apps. They are a bit spendy though. Maybe a Polar Bluetooth HRM is a better option...

If I could use the ANT+ dongle to upload data to Garmin Connect, I would definitely consider it worth having, but I don't think you can do that so it's strictly a luxury item on the wish list.

d.

If only they had made the new iPhone ANT+ compatible with no dongle :(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: fuaran on 16 October, 2012, 08:37:12 pm
If I could use the ANT+ dongle to upload data to Garmin Connect, I would definitely consider it worth having, but I don't think you can do that so it's strictly a luxury item on the wish list.
Not tried it myself, but apparently you can use the Garmin Fit app with the Iphone ANT+ adapter, and it will automatically upload to Garmin Connect. https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=104231

There are a few Android phones with ANT+ built in, mostly from Sony Ericsson. Though it seems most of the newer Sony phones are lacking ANT+.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 16 October, 2012, 08:49:35 pm
Garmin Fit app is reputed to be rubbish. And unlike other (better) fitness tracking apps, it isn't free!

I just have to be patient and upload later when I'm in range of the home computer. I can live with that level of inconvenience. ;)

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 16 October, 2012, 11:23:45 pm
Today I went for a run. Felt crap, so did 10K.

http://my.digifit.com/site/share/workout/68acf3b8179311e291b2fff61a7a6b5c.html#.UH1h3LPKuJg

Good effort!

Fidgetbuzz reckons someone my age should be going sub 40 minutes. Not for my first ever 10K, though! I am actually training for a ~1.8km run next month (a lap of Cambridge Science Park as part of a 4-man relay team), so am just using these runs to get my legs used to running before I start doing some speed work. The last time I ran the event, in 2010, I did a PB of 6:45, which was a 6 minute mile pace. I usually don't get around to training at all until a couple of weeks ahead, but it's still a month away, so I hope to improve on that time, perhaps knock 15s off and get down to 6:30.

Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 17 October, 2012, 06:22:04 am
There are a lot of fitness apps and gadgets coming to market that will be BlueTooth compatible (maybe including bike power meters). Bide your time.

Straying off topic a bit now but I thought the point of ANT+ was its much lower power consumption than Bluetooth. However, I've just been doing some reading and it seems there's now Bluetooth Low Energy, which I guess will ultimately make ANT+ redundant - the Betamax of near field communication, eh, teethgrinder?

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feline on 17 October, 2012, 09:43:45 pm
There are a lot of fitness apps and gadgets coming to market that will be BlueTooth compatible (maybe including bike power meters). Bide your time.

Straying off topic a bit now but I thought the point of ANT+ was its much lower power consumption than Bluetooth. However, I've just been doing some reading and it seems there's now Bluetooth Low Energy, which I guess will ultimately make ANT+ redundant - the Betamax of near field communication, eh, teethgrinder?

d.

The new Polar H7 bluetooth band (that Simon and I now have) is the new low energy technology. The good thing is it's also backwards comatible with Polar watches and fitness equipment.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Fidgetbuzz on 17 October, 2012, 10:07:41 pm
Fidgetbuzz reckons someone my age should be going sub 40 minutes. Not for my first ever 10K, though!

Absolutely - go back a page - look at Lady C - 18 odd for 5 kms - and she is well off her best I believe.

So under 40 - should be a no brainer - 35 or 36 now you are running rather than "jogging"
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feline on 17 October, 2012, 10:25:08 pm
Fidgetbuzz reckons someone my age should be going sub 40 minutes. Not for my first ever 10K, though!

Absolutely - go back a page - look at Lady C - 18 odd for 5 kms - and she is well off her best I believe.

So under 40 - should be a no brainer - 35 or 36 now you are running rather than "jogging"

Lady C is a runner. Why would someone who doesn't really run be able to do comparable times on a first attempt?
I should try and run 10k to give you a laugh. I reckon it would take me more than an hour  :D
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 17 October, 2012, 11:22:56 pm
50mins/10k is not bad at all for a fit non-runner - I'd be pleased with that myself, and I think I'm fairly close in age to SimonP. I reckon I might manage 45 minutes on a good day if I really pushed myself.

Sub 40 mins sounds rather ambitious but isn't beyond the realms of possibility. Might take a bit of work to get there though.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 18 October, 2012, 01:06:28 am
50mins/10k is not bad at all for a fit non-runner - I'd be pleased with that myself, and I think I'm fairly close in age to SimonP. I reckon I might manage 45 minutes on a good day if I really pushed myself.

Sub 40 mins sounds rather ambitious but isn't beyond the realms of possibility. Might take a bit of work to get there though.

d.

46 minutes. (45:58)

This is only the third time I’ve run outdoors this year, IIRC. To me, 35 minutes seems unrealistic. Given I ran a 6 minute mile pace in the 1.8km race in 2010, I expect to at least match that again this year as I’m training now with a month to go rather than the more usual start with two weeks to go. I’m targeting 6:30 for the event (6:45 in 2010).
 
My first outdoor run of this training was 7.54km, at a pace equivalent to 48:45 for 10km. So I’ve gone nearly 3 minutes/10k faster already. I was pretty sore on Saturday; much less so today.

This calculator lets you adjust your time for age. 35 minutes seems highly unlikely for me.

http://www.runnersworld.com/cda/agegradingcalculator/0,7977,s6-238-277-415-0,00.html
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 18 October, 2012, 05:29:34 am
Well, there you go - I reckon 70% for your age grade should be an achievable target for a fit non-runner with a bit of training.

For me, that means I need to be aiming for 19:20 for 5k and 40 mins for 10k.

Hmmm.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 18 October, 2012, 06:46:44 pm
I can't quite believe I'm saying this but... that actually sounds like fun.  ;D

Went for a lunchtime run again today - for the fourth time this week! (I'm giving myself the day off tomorrow though.) I ran my 8.5km route in a bit over 39 minutes. Started off slowly for the first km or so to get warmed up then increased to "tempo" pace (about 4.30min/km). Felt really good - certainly gave me enough of a buzz to make the afternoon at work much more bearable.  :thumbsup:

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 18 October, 2012, 11:11:03 pm
Coming off Hardknott today (#massivenamedrop) I spotted some damp runners with Goretex-n-rucksacks. Lovely friendly couple, they were recce-ing the Lakeland 50. a 24h cutoff - does that sound right? Can't quite get my head around how that compares with the Thames event!

I think they'd enjoyed some 'bonus' miles last year, so reckoned it was worth checking their route this time! Having seen the incredible terrain they were going over, I had to agree. I hadn't seen another walker-or-cyclists for bloody miles, so was glad for a chat - it's great hearing about other mad stuff people are upto.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 18 October, 2012, 11:13:03 pm
Lakeland 50 is absolutely nothing like the TT50. Lakeland 50 is harder than most 100 milers. The Lakeland 100 is the hardest thing in the country......

Enter it Matt :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 18 October, 2012, 11:22:04 pm
Maybe not this time:
 Saturday July 27th 2013 - Noon, Sunday July 28th 2013

(head controller would NOT be happy!)

<Makes note to check excuses for all the other ultras next year ...>

Leaving aside the sheer unlikelyness of my legs holding out for more than 2 hours ... I can't decide how/if these long runs appeal. If I had all the skills, the Lakeland event looks fab (massive IF). Whilst the more 'practical' events look deadly dull. No offence to certain people, but 24 hours along a towpath, or round a 400m track? I shall continue to merely worship those concerned from afar!
LDWA might be the way (despite them being stuffier than even AUK!) Crikey - 'Search' reveals that this links back to posts on this thread in 2010.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 18 October, 2012, 11:33:56 pm
<Makes note to check excuses for all the other ultras next year ...>

Psssst!

Mersey 24.


Saying that, running 100 miles over the Lake District sounds like a good weekend to me. If only I had the running legs...
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 19 October, 2012, 08:11:40 am
Saying that, running 100 miles over the Lake District sounds like a good weekend to me. If only I had the running legs...

This.

I couldn't do it as a race, but it sounds like something I'd love to do for fun at my own speed.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 19 October, 2012, 11:27:32 am
Did 8.9 miles in 1h11m in my vivobarefoots. Wasn't watching the GPS, just concentrating on my form, so was pleased to stay sub 8m/miles and not get injured. It's the furthest I've run in my barefoots - haven't gone beyond 10km before. Didn't get any ITB, knee or ankle problems - still going to keep it infrequent as they clearly test parts of me that don't get used so much. Calf muscles feel pretty pumped today, and I don't think I'm going to enjoy my fixed gear hill repeats later.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 19 October, 2012, 04:33:25 pm
Did a 5k at lunchtime, got soaked. 1k warm-up, then 5k in 20:51, then 0.5k crawl.

Age-graded score for that time is 65.46, suggesting I'm getting faster.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 19 October, 2012, 04:37:05 pm
Age-graded score for that time is 65.46, suggesting I'm getting faster.

or older.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 19 October, 2012, 05:03:26 pm
Age-graded score for that time is 65.46, suggesting I'm getting faster.

or older.

Not as fast as I'm getting faster.  :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 20 October, 2012, 04:55:45 pm
edit: just received the results; i've been awarded 5th place and the time of 20:25 doh.. next time under 20 - that's for sure! :demon:

much better this time, i gave it all! gps helped me to keep the pace in check, although still started off too quick (just like in audaxes..). good conditions for running, overcast and no wind. came fourth in 19:26, felt dizzy and nearly got sick after finishing - must have been trying hard! now - do i start training for better times or leave it at that?

btw, how do you run through puddles - i need mudguards
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 21 October, 2012, 01:55:50 pm
Age-graded score for that time is 65.46, suggesting I'm getting faster.

or older.

Not as fast as I'm getting faster.  :P

Fairy nuff.
That's good going. You're a few minutes faster than my best 5k. :thumbsup:

Nice one to you as well Zigzag :thumbsup:


I was up in Brumland this morning and felt a bit gutted that I never knew about the half marathon that was on. I could have had a go at that.  :(


Never mind.
I'll leave this running lark for a while. Haven't done a run since about August. But I'm doing stuff in the gym now, including hamstring exercises. So I'll come out and do a Parkrun with absolutely no running behind me in about November-December. I'll run the 4 miles to the start and see what time I do, then run/walk/crawl home again.
It'll be intersting to see what happens. ;D
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 21 October, 2012, 04:49:42 pm
Wrong side of 21mins on yesterday's Parkrun again. Frustrating!

Was supposed to be doing the Fowlmead CX race today but woke up late, bike needed fettling and didn't really fancy the schlepp down to Deal so just went for a run through the local woods instead. Took it nice and easy and clocked up 15km in 90 minutes.

Very wet, very muddy but very satisfying. :thumbsup:

zigzag, re puddles, I got bored of trying to avoid them and my feet were wet by then anyway so I just ran through them. Good squelchy fun, really! ;D

Impressive parkrunning, btw.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 22 October, 2012, 05:55:06 pm
I did 8x2-minute intervals today. 4 minute jog recoveries.

I'm re-starting the 100 push-ups challenge this evening.

It's been nice knowing y'all.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 24 October, 2012, 05:00:09 pm
8km in a smidge over 35mins on my lunchtime run today.

Quite pleased with that, but apparently I need to get it down to 31:40 to hit that magic 70% mark.

Yikes.  :o

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 24 October, 2012, 05:58:52 pm
I'm broken. Tried to do another 10km, warmed up jogging for a mile but pain from my left ankle so I stopped and limped back to the office (2.5 miles).

I think it's the peroneal tendon.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feline on 24 October, 2012, 08:49:17 pm
I'm broken. Tried to do another 10km, warmed up jogging for a mile but pain from my left ankle so I stopped and limped back to the office (2.5 miles).

I think it's the peroneal tendon.

If it's the same one I damaged on PBP, you might find that walking is a big problem but you can cycle fine until you try to unclip (all be it a bit painful).
Does this mean we will not be requenting the gym this weekend?
I just got in from Spin&Abs followed by pilates classes so things will probably ache tomorrow anyway. I will probably ride 100k tomorrow unless it's too hurty!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 24 October, 2012, 09:12:37 pm
I'm broken. Tried to do another 10km, warmed up jogging for a mile but pain from my left ankle so I stopped and limped back to the office (2.5 miles).

I think it's the peroneal tendon.

I had months of peroneal tendonitis. Self-referral physio was okay but all it was was loads of ankle lifts and calf stretches. Worked eventually / spontaneous remission.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feline on 24 October, 2012, 09:18:39 pm
Mine spontaneously remissed about 3 days after PBP. Other bits took longer to fully recover!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 24 October, 2012, 09:31:37 pm
Well, first challenge is getting home from work (I'm still there).

As for the gym, I might be able to swim. Treadmill is out. Rowing machine isn't an option if cycling causes pain. Upper body resistance work won't be affected (but I've not recovered from Monday's 77 press-ups yet).

Good chance the race I'm training for is off.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gandalf on 25 October, 2012, 06:22:36 am
Had a run with no hurty knee yesterday, so cautiously optimistic. 

I have this cockamamie theory that I can only run if I do it in addition to cycling as opposed to instead of.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 26 October, 2012, 02:33:45 pm
Great run at lunchtime. Fixed hill repeats have been killing me - waking up in the night with sore quads. Colleague suggested I run instead of cycle, have a massive pig out, and get to bed early. I did that yesterday. Notwithstanding waking up in the night and being kept awake with sore legs (chocolate / ibuprofen / placebo fixed it), I woke up feeling great, and did my first sub-7min/mile run offroad in my vivobarefoots. Only 4.5miles, but it felt great. The ground was really soft, and the shoes felt perfect.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 06 November, 2012, 07:46:46 pm
Took my running shoes with me to Italy last week (wanted to take my bike but it wasn't practical). Only managed to fit in two runs but they were good ones. The second was an off-road trail that loops up the valley from where we were staying - only 5km but according to my gps, over 300 metres of ascent. Very steep and technical in places, but FUN! I want to do that again. ;D

I think the break and change of scenery have done me good because I went for my "regular" lunchtime run again today and knocked two minutes off my PB (8km in 35mins). That's only slightly slower than my best 5km pace.

Thinking of trying some intervals next to mix it up a bit.

d.


Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 07 November, 2012, 03:16:56 pm
Never done intervals, but have found myself sprinting to signs and stuff.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 10 November, 2012, 11:42:40 am
Run two of week 4 on the NHS Couch to 5K program.
Out of interest, tried running with a forefoot gait rather than my usual heel striking overpronating gait. 
Seemed to cause a lot less impact on knees.  Felt I was working my calfs / achillies tendon more though. 
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 10 November, 2012, 01:48:29 pm
20.44 on today's Parkrun - new PB! Pleased with that, though I was on course for sub-20.30 until I hit the wall towards the end. Felt at the end like I actually had the capacity to go a bit faster, and the stats show my HR never went much above 180, which is a good sign (not so long ago, I'd have been well into the 190s running at that pace). First km came up in 3.50 and felt comfortable, so I'm optimistic about achieving my 20min target before long…

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 16 November, 2012, 02:53:41 pm
Just ran 11.07km in 43m39 - that's equivalent to a 39m30s 10km - a huge PB for me. I haven't tried to run a fast 10km for about a year, and I know I'm a lot fitter than I was then, but that's a good 2 1/2 minutes quicker than I was hoping for.

I admit, I had a "precautionary" couple of puffs on my ventolin before I went out, and the 4 espressos I had this morning probably didn't hurt either. I AM actually asthmatic, so it's not like I've been hanging out with Dr Ferrari  :)

Still, for me that took a lot of suffering, and audio prompts from runkeeper every 250m to keep my pace up. That is as fast as I can go atm, I reckon, short of running with some faster people who I'd be embarrassed to be dropped by. There are a bunch of chaps from the MRC epid unit that run 40-42m 10kms as a lunchtime training run. I've been scared to go out with them, but I think I'll give it a go.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 17 November, 2012, 07:33:01 am
Good work, Dr M.

I've been looking at my stats at
http://www.runbritainrankings.com/ - it's an interesting site for anyone with a slightly geeky approach to their running.

Slightly scary to see that the best Parkrun times anywhere in Britain for my age group are sub 15 minutes.

d.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 17 November, 2012, 02:29:22 pm
great effort chaps, it's a nice feeling to smash your pb! i've done another parkrun today in 19:19 and mrs z ran her first one in 29:23 - that's pretty good! precious time together followed by hearty breakfast - can a day start better than this?! can you tell i'm excited?! ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 19 November, 2012, 12:58:30 pm
Cheers guys - awesome work my Mr & Mrs zigzag, and tremendous effort by Oranj - I think I would be happy forever if I could go sub 3h30 on a marathon.

I've still not got my head around how okay it is to be sore after a run. My calf muscles tighten up horribly after anything over 10km, and I usually get a bit of ITB tweakiness thrown in too. Makes me nervous to aim for anything more "committed" as I feel like I'll inevitably become frustrated by injuries. I've yet to run further than 15 miles in one go.

At the mo, alternating between running, cycling and concept2 is working for me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 19 November, 2012, 03:09:01 pm
Cheers guys - awesome work my Mr & Mrs zigzag, and tremendous effort by Oranj - I think I would be happy forever if I could go sub 3h30 on a marathon.
...

fwiw, my (single) 10k training run was just under 40min, with a london marathon of 3:27 two weeks later (it did hurt and that's not the right approach to take).

so, you've already done more training and i reckon you're good for sub 3:30 marathon!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 22 December, 2012, 04:10:16 pm
A comical but satisfying ParkRun today. At the 2nd attempt I got up early enough to ride (in the bloody dark) to the Oxford event - unlike Abingdon, it has actually happened since the Thames took over South Oxfordshire. It's 3 months since my last one (too much cycling!), and I've had a few weeks of niggles and bugger-all miles, so it was nice to get round injury-free and at a  decent effort level.

VERY muddy - with my lack of balance I was surprised to stay upright. (It's probably lovely in June). No idea what effect this has on times - I've never run 'fast' in proper mud - but I managed about 24:30 (PB still 22:54). And it has a few proper slopes (not hills, i stress!). And I stopped to re-tie both shoelaces  :facepalm: And ... and ...

Anyway, I really enjoyed my morning, despite 2 hours of riding in the rain. I am the king of -ve splits! (about 5min 5 5 5 4:30). Given the laces incident, my pacing is a long way from consistent, and I'm probably still sandbagging somewhat ... :-[ My average pulse is still about 10 below what I do on equivalent bike events. But it is nice to overtake people for the last 3km instead of the opposite (there were a few really struggling on the last lap)! And it beats picking up injuries...

My (semi-)regular "long" run is now with the local club, 5 miles in their 9mm group.   If i can keep that up most weeks, with a steady increase in pace, I'll be happy; but I hope to build upto longer runs too. there's nothing special about running with the club, but it motivates me to actually MTFU and get out there. ( it might also lead to training partners, lift-shares for events, perhaps bigger things?)

(Group running is very different to group cycling, but I'm getting the hang of it slowly!)


Must build mileage slowly, Must build mileage slowly, Must build mileage slowly, Must build mileage slowly ... (and speed!)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 24 December, 2012, 01:06:55 pm
I stopped to re-tie both shoelaces  :facepalm:

I think you've found the only thing in running that allows faffing. ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 24 December, 2012, 02:12:27 pm
<ignores TG>

I'm not a great descender. So I might try some training drills, perhaps

this (http://talkultra.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/greg-vollet-athletics-weekly-may-2012.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 01 January, 2013, 04:19:59 pm
New job, and new head of dept. is a bit keen on running. As in, he's in his mid 50s and his 5k times start with a 17. At his encouragement, I've signed up for Rombald's Stride - 23 mile fell run thing in late February. My only hope is that I've only posted it off recently, and the website is now saying event full.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 04 January, 2013, 03:17:46 pm
Damn - I got a place.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 04 January, 2013, 06:49:48 pm
Thanks LadyC. Will tap you up for tips nearer the time. I'll try to get some runs in ASAP. Not been over 18 miles yet.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 13 January, 2013, 07:25:57 pm
First real race - Woodcote 10k - done. Once I got moving I really enjoyed it. Avoided 90% of the disasters/egg-on-face that I feared.

I won't bore you all with the full RR! (151/258 blokes) Oh and I passed a bloke doing his laces up at 3k  :smug:

Can't afford to do lots at £15, it does show how marvellous a thing parkRun is. But I'm pretty sure I'll do another. Hoping to ride a 1200 this year, so the bike will still get most of my time, I expect.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 14 January, 2013, 11:26:27 am
Damn - I got a place.

Ha! Good luck.

First real race - Woodcote 10k - done.

Well done!

I've been struggling a bit on the parkruns lately, partly because I've been ill, partly because of poor running conditions and partly, I think, because I've put a bit of weight back on over the Christmas period - just a couple of kilos but I'm convinced it makes a difference. I've not been under 21 minutes since the start of December. Aiming to start doing something about the last of those by going for a gentle 10k this lunchtime.

One of the parkrun regulars is organising a 7.5mile charity run next weekend. Might give it a go. Only thing is, since it's an A to B route, I might have to run to the start and then home again afterwards, which would round it up to a bit more than a half marathon. Hmmm...

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 18 January, 2013, 03:46:38 pm
Three 10km lunchtime runs this week. Today's was fab. Not fast but really enjoyable. Went as far as Green Park, which was gorgeous in the snow.

I'm doing around 50 minutes for 10km at the moment, which is a manageable pace. Reckon I could comfortably go a bit quicker.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: tonyh on 18 January, 2013, 05:10:20 pm
Jealous!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 18 January, 2013, 06:43:05 pm
Bought a new pair of tights in Decathlon today, so I figured I may as well make the most of what was left of the afternoon to complete week 7 run 3 of the Couch to 5k programme!   :D
Also bought a pair of trail running shoes from the afore mentioned French purveyor of sporting goods, as I think I might try my hand at trail running, as pounding the streets is getting a little tedious...

Still in two minds whether to give Parkrun a bash - nearest one to me is at Cramond, Edinburgh.

I probably should be getting the kms in for the Tour of East Lothian 100km audax on the 17th Feb though....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 18 January, 2013, 06:51:38 pm
Also bought a pair of trail running shoes from the afore mentioned French purveyor of sporting goods, as I think I might try my hand at trail running, as pounding the streets is getting a little tedious...

Still in two minds whether to give Parkrun a bash - nearest one to me is at Cramond, Edinburgh.
What's to lose Brian? They really are great events. :thumbsup:

But may I suggest that - funds allowing - you buy your next shoes from a proper running shop? It's just as easy to f**k up your feet/legs on trails as on roads. They might also know what will work best on the routes you're using (there is a hyooooge variation in 'trail' surfaces and shoes - it took me ages to buy mine as I really didn't know what I needed. Still not sure, ongoing experiment ...)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 30 January, 2013, 10:52:28 am
As mentioned somewhere upthread, I've been getting a lot of post-run tightness in my calves, which a couple of you suggested was probably due to not "warming down" properly. I took this advice on board and looked up some stretching exercises. Following yesterday's lunchtime run, I did the first exercise listed on this page, repeating it several times for each leg:
http://www.theflexibilitycoach.com/articles/8_10_ways_to_stretch_tight_calf_muscles.htm

Wow. It really works. The difference it has made is staggering. My legs feel perfectly normal today.

Thank you for the advice, chaps!  :thumbsup:

The run itself was pretty good too. Lovely day for it - sunny and mild. Started off gently, averaging a bit over 5min/km, but pushed it towards the end, taking the last km in 4.08 to squeeze through the 10km mark just inside 50 minutes. Sweet.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 30 January, 2013, 07:29:06 pm
As mentioned somewhere upthread, I've been getting a lot of post-run tightness in my calves, which a couple of you suggested was probably due to not "warming down" properly. I took this advice on board and looked up some stretching exercises. Following yesterday's lunchtime run, I did the first exercise listed on this page, repeating it several times for each leg:
http://www.theflexibilitycoach.com/articles/8_10_ways_to_stretch_tight_calf_muscles.htm

Wow. It really works. The difference it has made is staggering.

Boom tish! ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 30 January, 2013, 07:43:35 pm
Does this mean you're only doing the ONE stretch Citoyen?!?

Maybe when something else breaks, you'll build some others into your routine! ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 31 January, 2013, 09:51:16 am
I wasn't doing any stretches before, so it's a start...

The reason I wasn't is that getting changed, running, showering etc takes up nearly all of my allotted hour, so by the end of it I'm in a rush to get back to my desk, but I guess I'd be better off shortening my run (or running faster?) to allow for some proper warming down time at the end, incorporating a range of stretches. Or I could do the warm down instead of showering, but I don't think my colleagues would thank me for that.  ;D

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 31 January, 2013, 09:53:07 am
Boom tish! ;D

 :facepalm:  Pun not intended.

d.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 03 February, 2013, 04:29:18 pm
Crikey. I'm slightly awestruck at that. Well done!

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 03 February, 2013, 04:49:28 pm
wow, that's serious! if my legs managed that distance (although i doubt it), i'd be sitting with the black toenails now waiting for them to come off. it must be tricky to keep your body warm for so many hours in the cold.
yesterday /after the parkrun/ i came home and had to put even more clothes on and have three big cuppas till i warmed up.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 03 February, 2013, 06:31:47 pm
I recorded my best parkrun time yesterday since before I got ill - ie first time under 22 mins since the 1st of January. Probably would have been quicker still but for the EVIL headwind in the last 2km. Didn't mind the cold so much - until I stopped running...

Meridian TV cameras were there to do a piece on parkrun, so those in the SE may see me on Meridian news some time in the next few days. They might even show my wicked sprint finish up the slope, where I passed fellow VM40-44 runner Mike and thus finished first in my age category for the first time. Woo! ;D

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 05 February, 2013, 05:39:57 pm
I recorded my best parkrun time yesterday since before I got ill...

Further confirmation today that I've well and truly shaken off the lingering chest lurgy - I did the 10k lunchtime run in 46 minutes, which is a PB by a significant margin.  :thumbsup:

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 05 February, 2013, 06:00:57 pm
Thames Trot for me yesterday. Ended up with 75km in 6:59 [Garmin Connect (http://connect.garmin.com/activity/268766482)].

I got seriously lost on roads I know well in Pangbourne, but in my defence the last-minute routesheet (changed to avoid all the flooding along the towpath) that was emailed out on Thursday had a right turn there which got changed to a left in the sheet handed out on the day and I hadn't noticed. I also managed a few small route errors later on too.

Your diversion towards Theale looks pretty funny on that map :P But I can see how it might have happened. 75km is a much nicer number anyway  :thumbsup: Impressive pacing too.

I enjoyed hanging out at the Benson checkpoint with some runners I vaguely knew, waiting for their friends/spouses. It was a really nice atmosphere - somewhere between an Audax (fruitcake looked good) and a TT (support teams). Not too frantic even when the 'bulge' arrived, and an impressive demographic spread (gender, age, equipment styles).

I'll probably enter a couple of LDWA events this year (20-30 miles?) and the Compton 20 in April (cos it's local). Intention being walk-run, with the emphasis on walk, depending on my fitness when they come around.
(I intend sticking to the 'budget' end of the event spectrum).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: JJ on 06 February, 2013, 10:00:19 am
I'm gob-smacked!  The very idea of running 75km!  Well done.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 06 February, 2013, 11:55:36 am
Sounds like your shoes are too small ZigZag. I've had my fair share of lost/black toenails over the years, but usually from bashing my feet about on trails and so on.
<...>

regarding the shoe size - i think they are the right size.. i've bought another pair of trainers (after a black toenail incident) with more room in the front and also asked for advise in a couple of specialist shops and they assured that i shouldn't get black toenails, but still got after next marathon >:(
i think there might be something else that's causing this issue, i've done a lot of reading about it and most suggest that shoes are too small. but there's ample room to wiggle toes, bigger trainers would just be too big.
and there's no easy way to test new trainers - i'd need to run a marathon distance to find out if they keep my toes happy.

i hope your ankle and knees heal/recover soon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 06 February, 2013, 12:14:57 pm
I'm gob-smacked!  The very idea of running 75km!  Well done.

I was gobsmacked at the idea of 75km, but I just looked at the data on Garmin Connect and now I'm even more gobsmacked. Also slightly envious. Oranj, very impressed indeed with your ability to keep up what is a pretty decent pace for such a long time. And that climb up to Binfield Heath doesn't look too steep on Google Streetview but I bet you felt it in your legs after 68km...

Chapeau.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 06 February, 2013, 05:10:59 pm
Sounds like your shoes are too small ZigZag. I've had my fair share of lost/black toenails over the years, but usually from bashing my feet about on trails and so on.
<...>

regarding the shoe size - i think they are the right size.. i've bought another pair of trainers (after a black toenail incident) with more room in the front and also asked for advise in a couple of specialist shops and they assured that i shouldn't get black toenails, but still got after next marathon >:(
i think there might be something else that's causing this issue, i've done a lot of reading about it and most suggest that shoes are too small. but there's ample room to wiggle toes, bigger trainers would just be too big.
and there's no easy way to test new trainers - i'd need to run a marathon distance to find out if they keep my toes happy.

i hope your ankle and knees heal/recover soon.
Bruce Fordyce cuts flaps in the front of his shoes to avoid this problem when running the 90km Comrades [google him!].

(just happened to be listening to an interview)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: agagisgroovy on 09 February, 2013, 10:22:56 pm
9.5 miles today. Did walk up some of the hills though. Felt strong finishing and still had energy to take the new BSO for a test pootle.  :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: JJ on 12 February, 2013, 06:52:56 pm
Going to try running home tonight, after almost 3 weeks out with shin splints.  It'll either set me up or set me back!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 12 February, 2013, 08:29:27 pm
My blisters have just about healed so I'm setting the zombies on me again tomorrow. Even I can 'run' faster than the shambling undead.
Previous attempts at 'running' have been kiboshed by dodgy knee and hip. Fingers crossed they'll stay uncomplaining this time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: JJ on 12 February, 2013, 08:55:27 pm
Fingers crossed they'll stay uncomplaining this time.
:thumbsup:  Crossing mine for you too.

I made it home with only mild twinges.  Now to see if I can gently build it up.  I've a marathon entered in 2 1/2 weeks, but that might be over-ambitious.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 16 February, 2013, 11:57:20 am
20.52 on today's parkrun - 8 seconds slower than PB, dammit. Still my fastest run since 1 December, so that's good - I lost a bit of form in January through illness but I seem to be almost back to full strength now.

I might have got a PB but I was slowed down by a stretch of heavy mud in the third km that might easily have cost me ten seconds. Perfect conditions apart from that - I finished 10th and six of the nine ahead of me got PBs.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 04 March, 2013, 01:51:01 pm
Bought a new pair of running shoes on Saturday, from a 'proper running shop'.
They had me jogging up and down 'The Corridor' in Bath!
As I was paying the chap said "don't go trying for a PB the first time you wear them. If it happens, fine, but don't push for it".
Just been for a 30 minute run over lunch and, according to Endomondo, I achieved not one but two PBs!  And I wasn't pushing, just enjoying the sunshine. The PBs were for mile and Cooper distance (how far in 12 minutes).
I feel :smug:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 04 March, 2013, 06:03:05 pm
Still not finished NHS Couch to 5k programme.  It was supposed to take 9 weeks and all.....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 04 March, 2013, 06:08:51 pm
Stick at it Brian. As long as you made it off the couch, you're doing OK!


(You did, didn't you ...  ? )
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 04 March, 2013, 08:22:13 pm
Brian did get off the couch as he and I were sending supporting PMs before Christmas.  I was lucky as I was working away so had a very fixed timetable with two 'easy' slots for getting out running.  Brian wasn't so fortunate as college isn't as structured. 

But college in the Scottish highlands or being stuck away from home for eight months doing a fairly frustrating job--all the fortune wasn't on my side.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 05 March, 2013, 06:33:16 pm
i've had a hate / hate relationship with running for ages but was bullied into entering two longish triathlons this year and, remembering my miserable 1/2 IM a few years ago (2.30 half marathon) thought I should try and get better at my least favourite part...

I bought a book! (Hansons Marathon Method, although I have no plans to run a marathon this year...)

& I realised how stupid I've been - I've been running too damn fast!  I could do 6 miles, but it'd be 5 or 6 minutes running @ 8.30 / 9.00 minute miles, then I'd need a minute walking to recover, then repeat till I get home, absolutely knackered.   And I kept getting injured. 

So I've slowed down to 10.30 / 11.00 minute miles and it's easy!  I ran for over an hour on sunday, and just been out for half an hour and it was easy and almost fun!

the books got me doing a month of easy runs, building up the weekly mileage then starting to bring in quicker runs at different intensity and times, so I'm going to try and stick with it and see where it gets me. I should at least lose some lard which will help with the cycling too.

But I do feel a bit of a fool.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 06 March, 2013, 10:24:17 am
Don't beat yourself up about it. Since I started getting into running less than a year ago, I've found pacing the hardest thing to get right.

I guess I probably had the same trouble with cycling once upon a time but I've been doing that for so long that I have a much better feel for it.

d.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 07 March, 2013, 06:33:53 pm
IMHO, most cyclists get over this problem quite quickly, cos we ride for much longer than we can run. If you're doing a ride of 2hrs or more, you learn about pacing pretty quickly! All day rides just can't be done at 'tempo'.

Also you can ride on the flat at almost no effort if you slow down enough, and it doesn't feel like 'stopping' - but if you stop to walk on a run it can feel like defeat!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 07 March, 2013, 07:05:53 pm
I don't think I have any trouble pacing myself at running and I think I do well pacing myself at cycling. That is untill I ride a short distance TT where I don't have a clue. On a short TT I usualy accellerate for all I'm worth then go straight into oxygen debt.
Maybe I should try using a HRM...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 19 March, 2013, 03:34:47 pm
Determined to get my Parkrun time under 20 minutes, so I think it's about time I did some proper training...

Hence I had a go at some intervals this lunchtime - 5x 1km at race pace with 2mins rest between each km (a plan I found on the internet designed for improving 5k times). First three splits were 3.47, 3.57, 3.57... but I got a bit slower after that... Bloody hard work, but kind of fun. I think I'll try to do that regularly.

Need to find a better spot for it though - the Embankment is a bit too busy at lunchtimes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 03 April, 2013, 10:33:10 am
\o/

NHS Couch to 5K all finished!   :thumbsup:

(OK, so it took a fair bit longer than the planned nine weeks though....)

Now, what to do next?

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 03 April, 2013, 10:34:33 am
5.1?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ewan Houzami on 03 April, 2013, 11:25:10 am
Yippee! I've finally found an effective DIY way to loosen my tight hip rotators (specifically myofascial release of piriformis/gluteus medius?), meaning I can increase my stride length.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0kxDkcpk22A

I found it a bit painful at first (masochists will enjoy it), but it doesn't hurt at all after a few days.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 08 April, 2013, 04:15:02 pm
Did the NHS Couch to 5k+ "Stepping stone" podcast today.  Quite a fast paced run, but rather enjoyable.
Also mapped out the usual route that i've been using for the C25K  programme - by week 9 I was running 6.3km in the 30 minutes!

Also signed up for my local Park Run!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 09 April, 2013, 10:53:05 am
Well done, Brian. That's really good progress.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 11 April, 2013, 06:36:23 am
Apparently BSE is getting parkrun in "early summer". I make that about 6-10 weeks then to sort out my knee (again) & then me & No1Daughter, who is also running with Zombies, might get ourselves along there for that.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 17 April, 2013, 04:12:13 pm
Last night was a 5k TT, I wasn't mentally prepared for that, (and I'd have taken body pump/spinning a bit easier in the morning!) so really pleased with a decent 17.09.

Yeah, I'd be pretty pleased with that, even without the body pump/spinning.  ;D

Quote
Followed it up with a pretty good 18 miler before work today.


I was going to ask how you find the time, but as with cycling, I guess being quicker helps.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 17 April, 2013, 04:17:31 pm
Out the door by 5am, jobs a good'un.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 17 April, 2013, 04:28:09 pm
Out the door by 5am, jobs a good'un.

How long does 18 miles take you? Under two hours? It would be nearer three hours for me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 23 April, 2013, 02:39:28 pm
Did the NHS Couch to 5k+ "Stepping stone" podcast today.  Quite a fast paced run, but rather enjoyable.
I tried that for the first time today. Not a success. I just couldn't get onto the beats. Part of it was that the rhythm didn't feel natural for my running style and part was that I'm really not into that sort of music. Mind, it was also my first run for three weeks and my knee is playing up so it probably wasn't a fair trial.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 24 April, 2013, 12:59:49 pm
Just before easter as a challenge to the middle aged spread, 3 friends and I arranged that we would each run 10k in a simultaneous marathon relay (OK, that's 2k short so someone had to draw the short straw.) We did it,with PB and longest runs for two of us. It was a sub 4h run too so we were quite pleased. Now we have decided to get more folk involved. It is purely a personal challenge in public - we have a brand new FB page where people can sign up to say they will do it and then post when they have. Our modes ambition is to do 100k next time round (in a couple of weeks) and then to build on this every 6 weeks or so.

Anyone can get involved. It is run under Audax rules, ie the credit is for doing it, not in any finishing order, time band or age related position. Web page at https://www.facebook.com/TheInternational10kRun
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 24 April, 2013, 04:35:40 pm
Back on the treadmill at work, starting back into it slowly.

20 mins at 6.6mph. HRmax of 181bpm (better than I'd expected).

The fan has disappeared from the gym so it's a little airless and stuffy in there, but better than nothing (and only £8 a month!)

Just need to lose 14kg to get back to what I was about 4 years ago (in the run up to LEL).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 27 April, 2013, 02:14:31 pm
Off to the Dundee Parkrun today. My first parkrun - what an excellent idea. It is quite a hilly course and downhills are not my thing, but I found my pace, struggled a bit towards the end on top of my third consecutive day of running having done very little. Made it round in 28.30ish (according to the strava segment) with which I was quite pleased. Unfortunately it was a bit muddy. i decided that it would be a good plan to get a second pair of shoes so that I have a gym pair and an outdoor pair so stopped off at the running shop just up the road from me and am now the proud owner of a pair of Saucony Jazz. They fit like a glove and the shop owner (who I have seen around and about at many events anyway) let me try them outside as it was clean and dry.)  First run with them will be Monday I think. Ride to work and run home.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 27 April, 2013, 02:22:20 pm
Off to the Dundee Parkrun today. My first parkrun - what an excellent idea. It is quite a hilly course and downhills are not my thing, but I found my pace, struggled a bit towards the end on top of my third consecutive day of running having done very little.
They're great aren't they :)

I've rediscovered our local today - haven't run it since October due to flooding, and I got fed up of checking the status. reeeeally enjoyed myself (despite temps back to March levels :( )

Not sure about 3 days in a row all-of-a-sudden David - running is a harsh mistress, don't do too much too soon  :hand:

[I'm also not remotely sure about any product name incorporating 'Jazz', but as long as you're happy ... ]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 27 April, 2013, 02:27:03 pm
Well it wasn't really intended. I ran home on Thursday, then discovered that Friday was run to work day, so it would be rude not to, then today was the parkrun. Rest day tomorrow.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 27 April, 2013, 04:42:08 pm
I was on marshalling duty this morning - saving my legs for tomorrow's tri. It's good to see parkrun from a different angle for a change, and helps you appreciate just how good they are. I enjoyed clapping and cheering everyone on, and in the end, accompanied the tail-ender back to the finish for the final km - she took about 45mins overall, which she was quite pleased with and rightly so, since it's a time trial, so a good time is what's good by your standards, not by anyone else's standards.

We've got a few new runs either just started or starting soon in Kent, so I'm aiming to become a parkrun tourist and try them all out. Some will involve a decent bike ride to get to the start too...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 27 April, 2013, 04:56:23 pm
Wot no tail-runner?

(Mind you, I guess events vary - I believe LC's has official pacers! )

WOOHOO: result just pinged onto my phone - 25sec PB!

Lots of long steady runs does actually make you faster :) I haven't done a timed event since January, and negligible interval stuff.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 27 April, 2013, 07:26:32 pm
Result pinged on my phone too. 28:00 exactly! Pleased with that as my aim was sub 30 (or less than 2x the first home, which was 18 mins (they reckon this course is about 90-120 secs slower than a flat 5k.) and was just over half way up the field.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 28 April, 2013, 08:26:21 am
Well done David!

I've still to try my local-ish parkrun at Cramond. I've registered, got my park run barcordes, just needing to get motivated to try in one Saturday!   :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: davelodwig on 29 April, 2013, 10:51:52 am
8K this morning, polished it off in 55.50, though I'm hideously overweight and I'm often surprised I get up any hills.

I'm doing the 2 castles 10K in June and am hoping i'll have kicked my ass enough to turn out a (just) sub 1 hour 10K.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 29 April, 2013, 11:09:00 am
Well done, David M and Matt C. Good efforts.

Wot no tail-runner?

Yes, but she was several minutes ahead.  :facepalm:

However, the back marker was also accompanied by her husband, who had already finished, and she's an old hand, so didn't need the tail-runner. I just tagged along to give support.

We have official pacers on ours too, though on an ad hoc basis rather than a standing fixture - anyone who wants to volunteer to be an official pacer can do so - there are appropriately marked hi-vis vests in the kit bag.

Quote
Lots of long steady runs does actually make you faster :) I haven't done a timed event since January, and negligible interval stuff.

True dat.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: davelodwig on 30 April, 2013, 08:41:34 am
9K this morning,

I'm getting there.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 30 April, 2013, 08:48:01 am
According to Strava I now have a PR for 1/2 mile, 1k (exactly 5:00) and 1 mile (8:00) from the run in this morning. Slowly rediscovering a rhythm and teetering on the edge of jog -> run in terms of technique (I can hit a proper run but not for very long). Quite tricky when it is lumpy, with a rucksack and an all up weight >100kg. The calf muscles are slowly getting used to it - another few weeks and I should be able to run rather than jog for 5k. Average pace for 4.2k this morning was 5:19. Getting towards the tipping point when my fitness is such that it can maintain a pace rather than struggling to maintain a jog.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 30 April, 2013, 05:40:29 pm
Er... most of my training runs are done at slower than 8min-miles! And most of our midweek Running Club groups are 8mm or slower - for 5 miles.
It may be a lot slower than we can race at, but I'd still call it "running"  :(

(Perhaps by "run" you mean a racing pace? wodeva, it's just words I guess!)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 30 April, 2013, 06:00:11 pm
I thought the difference was one of intent - you run for a bus, you jog for exercise. ;)

Edit: Slightly less facetiously, I tend to think of "running" as having some kind of competitive element. If it's purely recreational, it's "jogging". Somewhere in between the two is "training". I don't think the difference is purely down to pace.

Edit 2: out of interest, I googled it and discovered that apparently, the default setting on Garmin devices is for sub-8min miles to be classified as running, and any slower to count as jogging. So David M is in line with Garmin's way of thinking, at least.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 01 May, 2013, 06:48:26 am
Edit 2: out of interest, I googled it and discovered that apparently, the default setting on Garmin devices is for sub-8min miles to be classified as running, and any slower to count as jogging. So David M is in line with Garmin's way of thinking, at least.
There is some good news here: this means it's pretty unfeasible for me to 'run' a marathon. So I needn't worry about not meeting that particular challenge :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Martin 14 on 01 May, 2013, 08:15:28 am
Edit 2: out of interest, I googled it and discovered that apparently, the default setting on Garmin devices is for sub-8min miles to be classified as running, and any slower to count as jogging. So David M is in line with Garmin's way of thinking, at least.
There is some good news here: this means it's pretty unfeasible for me to 'run' a marathon. So I needn't worry about not meeting that particular challenge :)

My daughter who runs with Sittingbourne Striders, says thats OK Matt, its perfectly acceptable to jog one  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 03 May, 2013, 05:03:57 pm
Er... most of my training runs are done at slower than 8min-miles! And most of our midweek Running Club groups are 8mm or slower - for 5 miles.
It may be a lot slower than we can race at, but I'd still call it "running"  :(

(Perhaps by "run" you mean a racing pace? wodeva, it's just words I guess!)

I actually think it is more of a gait thing, like the difference between a horse doing a walk, canter, trot and gallop. I'd suggest it is a matter of technique.
Jogging is essentially upright and in balance where one foot is usually in contact with the ground.
Run1 is also essentially upright - you can readily stop in a couple of strides and are in a stable balance. Pace is generally quite short - on uneven ground you will be running into bumps rather than running over them.
Run2 is a lengthened gait where much of the time is spent out of balance (falling forward and dynamically stable). You will not be able to stop within a few strides  - it will take some distance to reassert balance and stop. Typically a much lengthened gait.

Shifting between the two definitely feels like going up a gear.

'race pace' is a function of the individual. For some race pace is a brisk walk, for others it is well into 'run2' and limited by their aerobic capacity rather than legs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 03 May, 2013, 05:52:11 pm
My daughter who runs with Sittingbourne Striders, says thats OK Matt, its perfectly acceptable to jog one  ;D
That's very sweet of her!

ANYHOO ... Wiki uses the definition that I'm familiar with for "running":
 It is simply defined in athletics terms as a gait in which at regular points during the running cycle both feet are off the ground. This is in contrast to walking, where one foot is always in contact with the ground ...

DM's right in that one's gait changes with speed (of running!), although clearly it's a continuum. I do think that this variation in gait/technique is what makes run training a lot more complex than for cycling. On the bike you can do all your training with the same position, cadence, pedalling style, and with a bit of cunning variation in effort level, pretty much achieve any training goal.

On the other hand, I think that with running - and I stress I'm still only beginning to understand all this - you really do need to run with a variety of gaits/speeds, and you need to run with your race 'gait' for a reasonable amount of time for perfect preparation. [but there's a load of overlap - I've done negligible sprint training this winter, just plodding, yet felt quite happy running km5 last week flat out. That's not to say that speed-specific training wouldn't have made me faster ... ]

No doubt someone properly qualified can tell me what bolox this is :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 03 May, 2013, 06:02:10 pm
Sort of a continuum, but there are points where there are natural rhythms. Much easier to run at those points than slower or faster. These will change with fitness and weight.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 03 May, 2013, 06:32:05 pm
I don't believe that. Either you've trained mostly at those specific speeds, or it's all in your head.

There's a 'running' speed below which walking becomes more efficient - but I don't think that's what you're talking about. IMO it's definitely a continuum.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 04 May, 2013, 10:48:49 am
went to a parkrun today after two months break and set a pb! i'm still confused and thinking what i've done differently before and during the run (nothing!). anyway, well chuffed to get under 19min for the first time - 18:56!
otoh, the guy that was consistently finishing half a minute behind me now finished half a minute ahead of me - he must be doing some training (and became noticeably leaner as well).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 04 May, 2013, 11:53:40 am
Nice one, zigzag!

I was hoping for sub-21 mins today but didn't quite manage it. Good training though - doing a local 10k on Monday, my first time at the distance under "race conditions".
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 04 May, 2013, 07:36:28 pm
Ran home from the lab. 6.3km or therabouts. 35 minsish. First 3k into a stiff headwind, next 1.5 with 60m ascent. Then added about 3 miles walking onto it this afternoon. I ache a little now.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 05 May, 2013, 07:13:34 pm
I've been catching up on some running 'social networking' sites. Couple of amusing videos:

From the US 50miles champs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPx5mSZmkP8

Comments demonstrate a bit of UK/US schism:

US:
Way to go Vicky! Inspiring. Love the Rocky music at the end.
... etc ....

UK:
Elizabeth Ellis: This gets my vote for the most irritating husband award! How anyone can run 50 miles with him carping on in the background is beyond me.

Meanwhile, this is my favourite from the VLM so far:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCqSXbayHh0

[both from Marathon Talk, which I really rate]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 06 May, 2013, 03:58:14 pm
44.41 on today's 10k. Thought I wasn't going to break the 45min barrier but I put on a strong finish - splits in final 2km were 4.16 and 3.54! Very pleased with that.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 06 May, 2013, 08:39:47 pm
ran the nearly 5k home via the observatory (average 5.1% for a 100m height gain). Elapsed time was over 2mins faster than moving time last time (32 andabit vs 34andalot) but the phone had failed to lock a GPS signal so no record for Strava :( Seemed to have over run on the calf as it is rather tight and painful.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 07 May, 2013, 09:12:06 am
Left calf still very tight this morning so went in gently. About 6 min/km pace with a stretch stop part way. Walked the last 300m (of the 4.2km) to try to ease it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 07 May, 2013, 09:29:39 am
good effort citoyen and David! i was planning to do some riding on sunday/monday, but my legs were still very sore and stiff after the parkrun, so ended up doing housework instead (which was long overdue)..
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 07 May, 2013, 12:04:54 pm
Lower left calf feels like it has spasmed or cramped and is very tight and a little painful. Probably ease back and not run until the weekend
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 07 May, 2013, 12:26:43 pm
On the other hand, I think that with running - and I stress I'm still only beginning to understand all this - you really do need to run with a variety of gaits/speeds, and you need to run with your race 'gait' for a reasonable amount of time for perfect preparation. [but there's a load of overlap - I've done negligible sprint training this winter, just plodding, yet felt quite happy running km5 last week flat out. That's not to say that speed-specific training wouldn't have made me faster ... ]

No doubt someone properly qualified can tell me what bolox this is :)

A friend of mine is a big fan of chi running, which - to over-simplify - advocates shorter strides and higher cadence. Since he has been following chi running principles, he has developed a very elegant running style and has got noticeably faster. He also gets fewer injuries. I think I need to look into it myself...

http://www.chirunning.com/
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: davelodwig on 07 May, 2013, 12:50:28 pm
10k this morning before work, Got out and back in 1:12:54.

The first 7k felt fine just moving along comfortably, the last 1k was interesting, but at least it was downhill.

On the other hand, I think that with running - and I stress I'm still only beginning to understand all this - you really do need to run with a variety of gaits/speeds, and you need to run with your race 'gait' for a reasonable amount of time for perfect preparation. [but there's a load of overlap - I've done negligible sprint training this winter, just plodding, yet felt quite happy running km5 last week flat out. That's not to say that speed-specific training wouldn't have made me faster ... ]

No doubt someone properly qualified can tell me what bolox this is :)

A friend of mine is a big fan of chi running, which - to over-simplify - advocates shorter strides and higher cadence. Since he has been following chi running principles, he has developed a very elegant running style and has got noticeably faster. He also gets fewer injuries. I think I need to look into it myself...

http://www.chirunning.com/

When I started running in regular running shoes, I was suffering from pain in the shins, I've since switched to barefoot shoes and modified my gait and how I land my feet and all the pain (apart from the tired pain) has gone. I get sore feet towards the end of a new distance but I seem to adapt fairly quickly.

I might take a look at this chi running and see if I can tie it with the barefoot.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 07 May, 2013, 12:52:03 pm
My chi-running friend runs in barefoot shoes, so it's definitely compatible.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 07 May, 2013, 11:00:49 pm
<searches ...>

This thread fisrt discussed barefoot* running in 2010, but this looks like the nicest resource to start with:

Those intrigued by the barefoot running thing might want a look at this 15 minute TED talk by Born to Run author McDougall (it's not new so you might already of seen it):

http://www.ted.com/talks/christopher_mcdougall_are_we_born_to_run.html

I'm not at all convinced he's got his evolutionary history right but I still find him quite inspiring.

"We are the biggest sissies in the jungle. Every other animal is stronger than we are — they have fangs, they have claws, they have nimbleness, they have speed. We think Usain Bolt is fast — Usain Bolt can get his ass kicked by a squirrel.” (Christopher McDougall)

*see also Chi, POSE etc etc ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: teethgrinder on 08 May, 2013, 07:46:11 am
A friend of mine is a big fan of chi running, which - to over-simplify - advocates shorter strides and higher cadence. Since he has been following chi running principles, he has developed a very elegant running style and has got noticeably faster. He also gets fewer injuries. I think I need to look into it myself...

http://www.chirunning.com/

I know pretty much sod all about running. When I played at it in 2010 and 2012 I did what I thought would reduce the risk of injury and applied what I knew from cycling to running.
I went for short strides at high cadence too. I figured that jumping from a great height once would be more damaging than jumping from a much lesser height many times and scaled that down to my running stride.
Also that pushing a big gear (big strides) requires strength, which I don't have for running (and that really showed up when I did the marathon last year!) Neither do I have good fleibility.
I managed to get around a marathon with 3 months of minimal training injury free, though I wasn't over the moon with the time it took, which isn't really surprising.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 11 May, 2013, 10:36:08 am
Just smashed my Parkrun PB! 20.28! Over the flipping moon!

Bearing in mind that the route is slightly over distance (according to my GPS I did an extra 65 metres today, which took 11 seconds) and there's a bit of a slope in the middle of the circuit that doesn't seem too steep but is deceptive and I reckon adds on about 10 seconds per lap (the course is two laps)... I reckon I could definitely do sub 20 minutes on a flat, accurately measured course. Really chuffed with that performance though - it's at least 15 seconds off my old PB.

I reckon shedding a few more kilos would definitely help too - I'm about 69kg at the moment, which is a healthy enough weight, but I'm aiming for a "race weight" of 64kg, which is probably enough to make a difference to my time, especially on a non-flat course. (And would help me get up hills faster on my bike too, of course.)

Edit: according to Strava, my actual pace was 4.03min/km but my grade adjusted pace was 3.58min/km. I'll have that!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 11 May, 2013, 04:00:39 pm
Somewhere on this thread I posted some estimate for time-gained-per-kg of weight loss, wot I found on the internet. It seems to be pretty accurate over quite a range of people.

You gain a lot more time than you would on the bike, for similar weight loss. Could be good motivation for that diet.

(Of course if you really want to go under 20mins, find a track event!)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 11 May, 2013, 09:30:07 pm
Thanks - I'll have a root back through the thread for that when I have proper computer access. Sounds interesting.

And yes, I could definitely go sub-20 on the track but much as I want to break that barrier, there's more to life than just registering a time - one of the things I love about parkrun is the scenery...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 11 May, 2013, 11:14:36 pm
Missed it today as I went hill walking. But I am supposed to be doing a personal 10k challenge tomorrow. *gulp*
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 11 May, 2013, 11:31:37 pm
Good luck!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 13 May, 2013, 12:49:47 pm
Just had a look at the times posted on the new Ramsgate parkrun that started at the weekend. Interesting. Most of the people who took part who have also run the Whitstable parkrun (my local one) achieved significantly faster times on the Ramsgate course - over a minute faster in quite a few cases.

I think I've found the answer to my quest for a sub-20 time!  ;D

And to think I would have cycled over to do the Ramsgate run if I'd managed to get out of bed in time on Saturday. Definitely going to give it a go very soon though - I'll just have to remember to keep the effort low on the ride over (it's about 18 miles) to save some juice for the run. It'll be good tri training too.

The times posted on the Margate course seem generally a bit quicker too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 13 May, 2013, 01:03:09 pm
Somewhere on this thread I posted some estimate for time-gained-per-kg of weight loss, wot I found on the internet. It seems to be pretty accurate over quite a range of people.

You gain a lot more time than you would on the bike, for similar weight loss. Could be good motivation for that diet.

This was posted on tritalk:
http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/diet/weighteffect

According to that, I only have to get down to 67kg to go sub-20, and I could be looking at sub-19 minutes if I get my weight down to my target 64kg.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 13 May, 2013, 04:36:38 pm
Bailed my 20 minute run halfway as my back was hurting. Not enough core strength to cope with my flabbiness.

Opted for 10 minutes on the step machine (keeping heart rate ~ 170bpm) and then 1000m on the rowing machine as punishment for being weak.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: David Martin on 13 May, 2013, 04:52:30 pm
The 10K didn't happen - combination of a cold and rather painful legs. I'm not sure what the best approach is - to run gently on aching legs. To rest completely. or to just MTFU and get on with it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 24 May, 2013, 02:44:10 pm
Slightly OT: I've found that GPS watches overestimate running distance by a small amount. I've done comparison tests over routes with them mounted on the handlebars cycling, and on my wrist when running, and the handlebar mounted result is always much closer to my cateye computer result/measured off Gmap-pedometer. I'm wondering if your arm swinging to-and-fro adds some complication, especially as there's a running GPS out now which claims to smooth that out (a Suunto? I forget which one).

Interesting. I've not heard that one before. I do notice a fair bit of variation in the measured distance - my local parkrun varies from 5.01 to 5.07km according to my Garmin, even though it's exactly the same route every week, and even when there are no obvious GPS glitches. It's possible that I'm starting and/or finishing in slightly different places each week but not enough to account for a 60 metre variation!

The 10k race I did a few weeks ago clocked as exactly 10km - which probably means it was actually short...


Quote
This can get irritating on longer races so if I'm racing and want accurate splits, I'll hit the lap button every so often when I pass a roadside distance marker to re-set the distances,

That's a good idea. I might try that as well.

Quote
like the Town & Gown 10k the other week where I hit the "lap" as I passed the 5k point: Garmin Connect (http://connect.garmin.com/activity/311485703).

That's a bizarrely convoluted looking route! Good time though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Lady Cavendish on 24 May, 2013, 03:05:53 pm
GPS's aren't *that* accurate. Plus, you are never going to run the exact racing line.

An accurately measured 5k will always come out around 3.14 or 3.15 miles at best, not 3.11. And that is with a good line run.

It's standard for a marathon to be 26.5 or 26.6 on the garmin. This doesn't mean the course is long. If I had £1 for the amount of times I've heard 'the course was long'...............

Regarding the weight calculator things, extra lbs make a huge difference. But it's not quite as simple as lose x lbs will make me x seconds faster. It's even there on the bottom of the calculator 'this calculation is based on the (unrealistic) assumption that the change in weight is not accompanied by any other change.' It makes a massive difference, but don't just assume at x weight you will run x time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 25 May, 2013, 05:01:26 pm
It's standard for a marathon to be 26.5 or 26.6 on the garmin. This doesn't mean the course is long. If I had £1 for the amount of times I've heard 'the course was long'...............

Fair point.

I did the Ramsgate parkrun today and it came in at 4.88km on my Garmin - I can understand over-distance on a GPS but under-distance? By that much? Hmm. Explains the fast times though!

I ran 20.15, which is kind of disappointing given the flat course and the short distance, but on the other hand, I had cycled 30km at a moderate-to-brisk pace to the start, which probably took more out of me than I realised, plus I was a touch wheezy with hayfever. Also, I went off too fast at the start - first km in 3.50 - and paid for it later. Foolishly tried to keep up with some very fast runners rather than keeping an eye on my pacer (the winner finished in 15.30).

Quote
Regarding the weight calculator things, extra lbs make a huge difference. But it's not quite as simple as lose x lbs will make me x seconds faster. It's even there on the bottom of the calculator 'this calculation is based on the (unrealistic) assumption that the change in weight is not accompanied by any other change.' It makes a massive difference, but don't just assume at x weight you will run x time.

Of course. I'm taking it as read that all other things are equal in making that assumption about time differences, but well aware that's not how it works in the real world. The matter is discussed at greater length in the thread on tritalk where I got the link from.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 25 May, 2013, 05:05:40 pm
The 10K didn't happen - combination of a cold and rather painful legs. I'm not sure what the best approach is - to run gently on aching legs. To rest completely. or to just MTFU and get on with it.

Bit late to answer this now but I would say rest completely, or some very gentle exercise (maybe just a walk rather than a run). MTFU is fine as a philosophy but you could just end up injuring yourself.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 25 May, 2013, 05:11:58 pm
parkruns are runs, not races - so I don't think anyone enforces accurate distances  ;D
(plus they're off-road, so it's only really course PBs that mean anything, surely?)

I've always said that GPSes are for position not distance - but there's a whole nother forum (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=63.0) for that discussion...


I managed about 300m this morning - calf strain still clearly not right, grumble whinge. Then retired to my post ready to scan barcodes.

One runner found a new way to screw the system - as I was scanning her athlete barcode, she casually tossed her finishing tag into the box with all the others  :o


Got a cut-n-paste thankyou text later - better than nothing I guess :)

[ Scanning is a much better job than marshalling. You can doss about until the 'winner' arrives, then it's pretty much all busy busy until the end, it's fun dealing with totally fecked runners. And you don't have to walk miles! ]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 25 May, 2013, 05:20:41 pm
parkruns are runs, not races - so I don't think anyone enforces accurate distances  ;D

I suppose in a lot of cases they're constrained by having to fit it into a certain sized/shaped park. It would be difficult to add an extra 120m to the course of the one I did today.

It would be churlish to complain given they're free to enter and run by volunteers.

Quote
(plus they're off-road, so it's only really course PBs that mean anything, surely?)

Indeed. I wouldn't compare a time on one parkrun course to a time on another. Totally irrelevant. I'll have to find a track-based event if I want to get my definitive 5k time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 31 May, 2013, 07:00:05 pm
Today I volunteered to take part in this:
http://hellyhansenbeautyandthebeast.co.uk/

...as part of a team of three, mind. I kind of like the *idea* of doing the whole thing, but having never done a full marathon over *easy* terrain, doing one on that kind of terrain might be biting off more than I can chew.

Should be fun!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: davelodwig on 03 June, 2013, 12:30:37 pm
In the wind down before my 10k race on Saturday.

I'm taking part in the 2 castles run, from Warwick castle to Kenilworth castle, after my last 10k on Sunday I'm pretty confident that I'm going to get all 102KG of me round in just under an hour, based on my race pace usually being 30 to 45 seconds a km faster than normal days running.

This is a pretty big deal for me as all I've done in the last 2 years of running is stuff on my own and a couple of 5k park runs, While I might not be fast in comparison to others the 6 / 6.30 km's I'm doing now are miles better than the 10 minute km I started with.

Might do a half marathon next...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 03 June, 2013, 08:11:47 pm
Good luck, dl!

I've just done the Sri Chinmoy 5k in Battersea Park - first in a series of Monday evening 5k races throughout summer. Great setting and what a beautiful evening for it (despite the high pollen levels causing wheeziness and streaming eyes and nose). Nice fast course too - got round in 20.16, which I'm pretty pleased with.

Lovely way to end what has otherwise been a pretty shitty day. Might do some more of these...

http://uk.srichinmoyraces.org/races/london
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 03 June, 2013, 11:48:00 pm
I've been a bit reluctant to talk about this, but ... <deep breath>

I recently did my first Hash run: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_House_Harriers

I know they won't appeal to everyone (!), but they have a lot going for them. I don't think I've done any other social sporting activity that caters so well for a range of abilities. They're like an off-road fartlek session, on a route someone else has devised, where everyone goes at their own pace, but you're guaranteed to run with others, and can chat - ending up at a pub.(I wonder which YACF moderator seems most likely to have done this sort of thing ... )

Although I've only done the one, I think the groups vary a lot in terms of the alcohol consumption, and the extent of the bizarre rituals (luckily there are several groups within my range!). They're mostly weekday evening affairs (or weekends in winter), plus the various national and international gatherings.

(At some point I shall investigate Bike Hashes.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 04 June, 2013, 11:11:00 am
Running and drinking? Sounds like my idea of fun!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 05 June, 2013, 12:01:08 am
Mentioned H3 to my dad. He's well aware of their work. He was acquainted with the Port Of Spain branch for a while when he was working out there. Described them as "drinkers with a running problem" and "dangerous". ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 05 June, 2013, 06:42:37 pm
Did a barn dance for one of our local H3 groups.  Possibly the least romantic Valentine's event I've ever been to!  But it was fun.
They described themselves as 'Drinkers with a running problem'.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 07 June, 2013, 09:25:39 am
I used to be in the cross-country team for my grammar school, and although we were aware of Hashing we considered it a bit of a posh toff's sport, 
Actually I was expecting something related to the hunting/shooting/fishing type culture, but they don't seem to be that sort at all.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 20 June, 2013, 10:26:18 am
There's a few new lines in this:

http://iancorless.org/2013/06/12/you-know-you-are-an-ultra-runner-when/
(a few ring very true from my Audax trips)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 20 June, 2013, 09:54:07 pm
inspired by mattc's link, decided to run 7km to the bike shop to pick up the prize i won two weeks ago :)

(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zSSo4aZ837s/UcNqwp0jtUI/AAAAAAAAC7E/eGQ9vipPb3o/s640/photo%25282%2529.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 20 June, 2013, 10:48:00 pm
You lucky bugger!

(&  :thumbsup: for a green healthy collection method)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 21 June, 2013, 08:15:59 am
Nice one, zigzag!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 25 June, 2013, 04:41:03 pm
Starting again (for the twelftieth time).

20 minutes on the treadmill at 10.5kph. HRmax at 179bpm so quite hard work. Didn't feel too bad and a bit easier given I'm under 90kg. Hopefully it'll get easier as the weight comes off.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 15 July, 2013, 12:38:49 pm
Hit a bit of a landmark on Saturday - my 50th Parkrun!

Looking forward to getting my nice red T-shirt. (Not sure what size to ask for though - does anyone know whether they come up big or small? Can't find any proper info on sizing anywhere.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 30 July, 2013, 11:49:06 pm
Got in tonight to find the village magazine on the doormat. A parkrun is starting in the village from September. I may be running out of excuses.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 31 July, 2013, 12:31:01 pm
Any thoughts on how to improve running style, specifically excessive heel strike?

I'm going to start again. Last time round, I built up the distance a little too quickly perhaps, and when at the stage where 10 km was comfortable, completely fractured my heel bone. Thought to be a combination of rubbish shoes, heel strike, and overly rapid build-up.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 31 July, 2013, 01:00:48 pm
Have you looked at Chi Running? I mentioned it upthread. My friend swears by it - since he adopted Chi Running principles, he claims to have both reduced injuries and increased speed. (I'm still a fair bit quicker than him though. ;D )

http://www.chirunning.com/
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 31 July, 2013, 09:10:36 pm
Have you looked at Chi Running? I mentioned it upthread. My friend swears by it - since he adopted Chi Running principles, he claims to have both reduced injuries and increased speed. (I'm still a fair bit quicker than him though. ;D )

http://www.chirunning.com/

I'll give it a read later, thanks. My Pilates place has a physio who does running classes, I'm waiting for the next one to be scheduled.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 01 August, 2013, 08:33:28 am
Oops, looks like my running-fu has fu off and ran away :-/  Not ran in months now!   ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 01 August, 2013, 06:29:34 pm
These Parkrun things.  What are they like to take part in? Friendly? Ultra-competitive?
As mentioned up thread, there's one starting in my village. I was discussing this with a friend at work who's rather more of a runner than me, but she says she's slow (must be 'and stead' because she's done several half-marathons) and didn't want to be finishing ages after everyone else.
I'd be hoping for a time around 30 minutes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 02 August, 2013, 11:57:18 am
These Parkrun things.  What are they like to take part in? Friendly? Ultra-competitive?

Both!

As a participant, I tend to be quite competitive - I'll never win outright, but there are a few regulars who run around the same time as me and we always try to beat each other. But in a very good-natured way. It's always handshakes and congratulations all round at the finish.

As a helper, I cheer on everyone equally from the fastest to the slowest. On a couple of occasions, I've accompanied the back marker through the last kilometre or so, giving them encouragement all the way.

And I can assure you that if you run around 30 minutes, you will be far from the slowest (times on my local parkrun tend to range from 17 to 40 minutes).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 03 August, 2013, 04:26:30 pm
Thanks citoyen

I'll pass the message on.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 05 August, 2013, 03:05:03 pm
Question for the likes of Lady C, Oranj, or any of you other longer-distance runners...

What do you do for hydration?

I went for an 18km/90mins run in the woods yesterday. I didn't take anything to drink with me and there was nowhere to get anything en route, so I had to manage without. I just about got away with it but it's probably not the most sensible policy. I certainly wouldn't want to go any longer than that without having access to liquid.

I thought about using my Camelbak, but didn't fancy having that weight on my back. Maybe I should give it a go.

Are those belts with holsters for water bottles any good?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: JJ on 06 August, 2013, 02:05:52 pm
David,
as you know I'm not in the same league as those guys, but I pushed it out to 30K a couple of weeks ago ahead of a race and I need to get in some more long-ish ones in the weeks ahead, so I'm interested.

I've been scavenging those 500ml Coke bottles from people who drink the stuff at work, and running with one of those full of electrolyte in my hand.  When it's empty, I just dump it in a waste bin, or in someone's recycling bin - round here, they're blue.

In the hottest weather, I found that wasn't enough and begged water from strangers in their gardens.

Some folk I know go round the morning or the evening before by bike, and stash bottles in hedges.  I was thinking of trying that.  It might work quite well with the disposable scavenged bottle approach.  In fact I meant to do that today, but I didn't get going early enough  ::-)

I also carry a couple of Isogel sachets, as they claim not to need as much water to go with them, but I don't really know if that makes sense given I am presumably just carrying the extra water in the gel anyway.

Interested to hear other's approaches.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 06 August, 2013, 02:32:50 pm
In the hottest weather, I found that wasn't enough and begged water from strangers in their gardens.

I like your thinking!

Quote
Some folk I know go round the morning or the evening before by bike, and stash bottles in hedges.

I had a similar idea - my route on Sunday was a "lollipop" (out and back with a loop at the end) and I thought of taking a bottle with me and stashing it in a hedge at the start of the loop, to pick up on the way back, but I was a bit wary of doing that - you never know what creatures might have a go at it, or do their doings on it...

I think maybe I'll just have to use my Camelbak and get used to it. It's what it's for, to be fair. There's also space in my Osprey Talon backpack to fit a hydration bladder, so I can use that too - it might be more comfortable to run with than the Camelbak as it has more in the way of supporting straps.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 06 August, 2013, 03:35:20 pm
I thought it was de rigour to carry these:
(http://jamesdonaldavis.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/bottle.jpg)
All the ladies walking 'briskly' round Needham Lake have them. (I overtake them on my way back from the shop, but they must be doing it properly as they've trainers and water bottles).

(more here (http://www.fitsugar.com/Best-Handheld-Water-Bottles-Running-15024300))
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 06 August, 2013, 04:35:53 pm
I thought it was de rigour to carry these:

I don't like having to carry stuff. I like to have my hands free for things like waving flirtatiously at lady runners, running through my hair (while I still have some), adjusting my shorts/scratching my bum etc. JJ's suggestion of disposable bottles would be better, except there are no bins in the woods...

Having said that, some of the bottles in that piece you've linked to do look quite nifty.

Quote
All the ladies walking 'briskly' round Needham Lake have them. (I overtake them on my way back from the shop, but they must be doing it properly as they've trainers and water bottles).

 ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: JJ on 06 August, 2013, 06:11:22 pm
Do you take your hands out of your shorts before waving flirtatiously?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 07 August, 2013, 10:44:40 am
Rather than answer that, I shall steer the conversation in another direction...

I was woken at an unearthly 3.30 this morning and couldn't get back to sleep, so I put the telly on to have a look at some news and came across Channel 4 coverage of the World Trail Running Championships, held recently in Wales. I think it's a sign of how far my attitude towards running has changed over the last year or so that I thought it looked like rather good fun!
http://worldtrailwales2013.org/

The route was five laps of a 15km circuit, with two aid stations along the way. As regards feeding, some of the runners were picking up bottles and carrying them (at least as far as the next aid station), so I guess that answers that question. I was slightly surprised to see that some were actually stopping at the stations and having a drink before carrying on but I suppose when you're running that kind of distance, occasionally stopping for a minute or two makes sense

The winner - the appropriately named Ricky Lightfoot - finished in an astonishingly quick three and a half hours, ten minutes ahead of the chap in second place. Some French dude finished third, looking in a right state after having fallen late in the race and gashed his knee quite badly. I thought it looked like he wasn't going to be able to carry on, so chapeau to him for finishing at all, never mind on the podium.

Seeing that has made me quite excited about The Beauty & The Beast trail marathon I'm doing in September.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: JJ on 07 August, 2013, 11:40:13 am
<snip> 
thought it looked like rather good fun!
<snip>
quite excited about The Beauty & The Beast trail marathon I'm doing in September.

Oh dear, oh dear!  ::-)
You're a lost cause!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 07 August, 2013, 12:07:28 pm
Hmm.

5 laps of a 15km circuit = 75km

Winner did it in 3 and a half hours?

Are you sure? That's sub 2h marathon pace.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 07 August, 2013, 12:09:31 pm
Oops! I meant about five and a half hours.

Which is still bloody quick, especially over that terrain.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 11 August, 2013, 09:40:04 pm
So, I've acquired a Forerunner and one of the things I understand you can do with it is to upload a training plan. Given that last time I ran, I probably increased the distance fairly quickly and ended up with a heel fracture I'd like to proceed cautiously.

Any recommendations for sources of training plans? I suppose the goal is more to improve fitness than to achieve any particular distance or time. I don't have a HRM strap but I suppose I could get one if it helped. I'm registered on Garmin Connect and all that.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 12 August, 2013, 09:08:06 am
You do not need a Garmin to avoid over-ambitious increases in distance.

(That's not answering your question, sorry - but there are loads of training plans on the web. If you look at a couple you'll see they're pretty similar in the main, just the details change. You can't go TOO far wrong ... until you choose to ignore it  ;) )

I'd rate HRM training as miles more useful than logging your routes/distances. But people love their distance logs, online doubly so.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 12 August, 2013, 09:57:30 am
Zombies (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sixtostart.zombies5k&hl=en). It's all about the zombies.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 12 August, 2013, 10:34:36 am
You do not need a Garmin to avoid over-ambitious increases in distance.

I know, but it would be handy to make use of the vibrating alerts on the forerunner to switch from walking, change of pace, etc. I realise it's just a gadget but hopefully it'll make it more interesting and I do like to be able to see evidence of improvement, if any, on my 'puter.

Zombies (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.sixtostart.zombies5k&hl=en). It's all about the zombies.

:) Thanks, looks good but I need to use this forerunner rather than my Android phone. Mind you, initial playing about seems to indicate that the phone gets a sat fix faster than the Forerunner, but hopefully that will improve when I actually leave the house.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 16 August, 2013, 06:26:55 pm
I've just been there! Started a job just down the road today - I'd completely forgotten about the event ("it's in August sometime ... I think") until I passed the yellow signs.

Very low key event. There were quite possibly more runners than supporters. I still have no interest in running round in such short circles for any period. The practical advantages did become obvious though - you're never more than a few minutes from a feed station, you can order food from your helper and collect it from them just 400m later. And it's easy to get to race control, hear announcements, etc etc. Hardy any marshals required!

Most 'runners' on Day5 were making those on Hour5 look positively frisky. I didn't get as excited as Oranj watching (and certainly didn't last an hour  ;D ), but it was intristin; I chatted to a lonely WAG who showed me round and pointed out the leaders and a few other notables.

May pop over for the finish. (I cannot deny wanting to see how tired they will look ..)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 18 August, 2013, 05:21:42 pm
First run in yonks this afternoon.
Did NHS Couch to 5K programme, week 6 run 3, so 5 min warm up, 25 mins run, 5 mins cool down.
Didn't feel to difficult, and somewhat enjoyable!   :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 19 August, 2013, 11:47:57 am
Just done my longest ever run - 21.7km. Yay!

And according to my gps track, I clocked the half marathon in 1hr 58m, which I'm very pleased with - especially as it was in the woods, ie offroad trails.
http://www.endomondo.com/workouts/232852087/5065481
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ray 6701 on 24 August, 2013, 05:12:12 pm
Just done my 1st run in about 10yrs  :)

3.96miles in 30.17mins @7.39min/mile.

Mile 1 6.46mins - going well
Mile 2 7.18mins - slowing down
Mile 3 7.51mins - seizing up
Mile 4 8.45mins - hobbling

That's the hard part done, now to recover & get back out on Wednesday which will be my 1st opportunity to run again. 

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ray 6701 on 28 August, 2013, 08:26:04 pm
2nd run: just a short bash down to the marina & back.

2.01miles in 13.05mins @6.31min/mile.

Mile 1 6.36mins - going well
Mile 2 6.24mins - pushing hard

My legs & achilles are still a little tight  :(. So I'll try another long & steady run on Saturday. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gus on 29 August, 2013, 08:52:16 am
I needed a new goal after I didn't go to the LEL so I've signed up for 1/2 marathon Oct.20.
I have now been out 5 times over the last 2 weeks. Distances are still 4-8 km but slowly going to increase.
The tempo range from 5.15min/km up to 6.30min/km, hoping to run around 6.05min/km for the 1/2 marathon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ray 6701 on 29 August, 2013, 12:41:24 pm
Which half have you signed up for Gus  ???
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gus on 29 August, 2013, 06:13:44 pm
Which half have you signed up for Gus  ???
THe first 21,1  :o
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 08 September, 2013, 10:08:26 pm
had the most enjoyable parkrun yesterday after four months break - the first edition at southwark park!
"Southwark results for event #1. Your time was 19:02. Congratulations on completing your 11th parkrun and your 1st at Southwark today. You finished in 12th place and were the 12th gent out of a field of 150 parkrunners and you came 5th in your age category SM30-34. As this is your first run at this event we have set your PB."
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 10 September, 2013, 12:58:55 pm
had the most enjoyable parkrun yesterday after four months break - the first edition at southwark park!
"Southwark results for event #1. Your time was 19:02. Congratulations on completing your 11th parkrun and your 1st at Southwark today. You finished in 12th place and were the 12th gent out of a field of 150 parkrunners and you came 5th in your age category SM30-34. As this is your first run at this event we have set your PB."

Nice one! Southwark Park is where I usually head to on my lunchtime runs - there and back with a loop of the park. It's pretty darn flat, but that's an impressive time none the less.

I did the first ever Weymouth Parkrun the week before last - would have been silly not to, as we were camping just up the coast near Bridport. I also got in a few runs along the stretch of coast by the campsite. Some tasty hills there! I did several climbs of Thorncombe Beacon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorncombe_Beacon), which has a viciously steep final 200 metres or so. I managed to knock about 40 seconds off my time going up it over the course of a week, which I was quite pleased with, though if I'd had more time to spare for running, I'd have done some longer runs further up the coast to take in Golden Cap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Cap). Already thinking of booking a return visit...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: IanN on 15 September, 2013, 04:45:15 pm
I was convinced cycling did nothing for my running. Worked up to the Rough Diamond 300 in August, and only did occasional runs to keep my hand (foot?) in. I traditionally take 6 months off over the winter...

Just got a PB - a shade under 1:54 -  in the Bristol half marathon   ;D

Must be the cake! Glycogen and all that.

(Whether my legs will work enough to attempt the Chepstow 200 next weekend is another matter)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 27 September, 2013, 11:26:52 am
It was the Beauty & The Beast last weekend. The full marathon was six laps of a 7km course through West Wycombe Park, just outside High Wycombe. Here's the route on Strava:
http://www.strava.com/segments/5563291

I didn't run the full marathon myself - entered as a team of three, so I ran the first and fourth laps. Really lovely event - not too big (only 400-and-something runners in total), beautiful setting, perfect weather (not too warm or cold, a brief spell of light rain), nicely varied route with some fairly tough hills but nothing too obscene. One small surprise in the shape of a ford!

My first lap was 37 minutes. I went off far too quickly so struggled a bit in the latter stages. For my second lap, I made a conscious effort to set off at a more moderate pace, but that turned out to be the wrong policy because I didn't manage to run any quicker over the latter stages of the lap and ended up two minutes slower than my first lap. Pah!

Our team did OK, finishing in 3hrs 55mins. We might have been quicker but one of my team-mates was carrying a leg injury that had prevented him training and slowed him down quite badly on the day. Still, very happy with that, and we finished 9th overall out of 116 finishers (including all teams and solo runners - we were only beaten by two solo runners!).

A full marathon is one of my targets for next year. I didn't even bother trying for London - an event that big doesn't appeal, tbh. Brighton is also out - standard entries already oversubscribed and I have no interest in running for charity.

Can anyone recommend any other good marathons, preferably in the southeast? Niceness of route trumps all other considerations. Bearing that last stipulation in mind, I'm actually thinking of entering the B&B again and doing the full marathon solo, though I'm slightly wary of doing such a tough event as my first full marathon. But hey, maybe by next September, it won't be my first... I'll definitely do at least the half marathon.

Oh, and I think the training for the B&B must have done my general running some good because I went out for a 10k yesterday lunchtime and managed 45.23, which is actually my second best time over the distance ever - and that's in spite of the route being very busy in places, and having to slow down to cross a busy road.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 27 September, 2013, 12:19:35 pm
Ooh, think I've found one...
http://www.hermesrunning.com/
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 18 October, 2013, 06:46:36 am
Went to a free talk last night at my local club, by a lady from Run3D (who are based at "the 4 minute mile" track!)."Injury Prevention for runners".

It was pretty short, so was mainly about concepts and a few common weaknesses-and fixes. But she had some great easy-to-understand graphics (no pie charts, sadly)

Most controversial statement: there is little or no evidence to support the use of foam-rollers on IT bands  :o


(Meanwhile, I resisted pointing out that I've been out injured for 5 months, yet have only missed a week off the bike ever, and that after 1400km-in-5-days.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 18 October, 2013, 08:30:22 am
Most controversial statement: there is little or no evidence to support the use of foam-rollers on IT bands  :o
:o
And yet it's recommended by physios and osteopaths all over?

In other news: No1Daughter & I are doing our first parkrun this weekend. OMG, that's tomorrow. Yikes.
We fully expect to finish pretty much last, around the 40-45 minute mark. (I'm far too fat to run 5k without a heart attack, and No1Daughter <spit> smokes <spit>, so it'll be walk-run-walk-run for us). We're viewing it as a base line assessment, where the only way is, to quote Yazz, up.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 18 October, 2013, 10:05:46 am
In other news: No1Daughter & I are doing our first parkrun this weekend. OMG, that's tomorrow. Yikes.

Good luck! The good thing about Parkrun is that there's no pressure to perform, but there's lots of support and encouragement, so hopefully that will make it less of an ordeal.


(Meanwhile, I resisted pointing out that I've been out injured for 5 months, yet have only missed a week off the bike ever, and that after 1400km-in-5-days.)


I've not run at all for two weeks - giving my legs a rest. Recently, I've been waking up with severe calf stiffness in my left leg, and first thing in the morning it's painful even walking down stairs, though it seems to wear off as the day progresses. I'm pretty sure this is running related. I've been doing a lot more in the way of post-run stretches and warm-downs lately but it's having limited effect. I think I need to go for another massage.

Ironically, although my running has exacerbated my calf problems, I think it's actually a recurrence of an old injury that I picked up on the Beast From The East 600 two and a half years ago - buggered my left achilles and could barely walk at all for a couple of weeks after that. But yes, on the whole, I don't get nearly so many physical side effects from cycling as I do from running. Running really does punish the body.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 19 October, 2013, 11:13:13 am
Bugger. No1Daughter DNF (late night, new tattoo, grass is harder work than pavements, sore feet, generally feeling crappy) so pulled out after the first lap, but I wasn't last (goal #1 achieved) & unfortunately managed 39:59 so can't aim for "sub 40" next time. :facepalm: I walked much more on the first lap than I would have done solo- giving me a massive negative split. I reckon I should be at least 5 minutes faster next time (in 3 weeks).
How soon should I expect to be able to run it all? I'm only 3 weeks into "running" with any regularity, so would another 3 weeks have me running the lot?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Peter on 19 October, 2013, 11:22:02 am
L, I wouldn't be in any hurry.  If you are not running much in between times, then I should just aim at getting round.  If you try too hard to run it all you are asking for knee and lower back problems.  It might just be that you run it all the very next time (and that's fine) but I think it would be wisest just to let it happen when it happens, which it is bound to do providing you don't get injured!  Sorry if I sound a bit wary but I wanted to return to running myself a couple of years ago.  After a scan on a knee (arthritic thanks to rugby injury and operation as youth) I was told not to run at all, which was a blow.  Thank heavens for cycling!

Good luck!

peter
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 19 October, 2013, 03:36:41 pm
I'm "running" 3 times a week, it's just I have stuff the next couple of weekends so won't be home for the Parkrun.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 02 November, 2013, 10:52:27 am
set my new personal worst on the parkrun today! all-you-can-eat curry dinner followed by two pints of beer the night before and going to bed at 3am had nothing to do with that, no. :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 09 November, 2013, 01:55:18 pm
managed 39:59 so can't aim for "sub 40" next time. :facepalm:
I reckon I should be at least 5 minutes faster next time (in 3 weeks).
34:58. :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 11 November, 2013, 12:26:11 pm
Good work, fboab. You'll be sub-30 before you know it!  :thumbsup:

I've completely lost my running mojo and struggled badly at parkrun this week. I went off at 22 min pace as planned but ran out of steam very quickly and struggled in the middle 3km. I managed to find a bit of juice in the reserve tank for a sprint finish but came in just over 24 mins. Still a respectable time, obviously, but it's a little disheartening that after getting closer and closer over several months to my long-term goal of a sub-20, that target is now receding into the distance.

The calf is still a little tender, but I don't think that's the cause of my difficulties - I think I'm just a bit out of shape generally. I've not been cycling much lately either, which I'm sure isn't helping.

A few new parkruns have started in Kent recently so I'm hoping to rediscover my mojo by trying some of them out - a change being as good as a rest, and all that. Plus they're all about 20-35 miles away, a good distance for riding to the start, so a good excuse to get some cycling in - two birds with one stone, and all that.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 11 November, 2013, 12:50:38 pm
I reckon I should gain a minute each time I do it, now. (I still can't run the whole way) I was even wondering about taking a pair of trainers to the AUKAGM next weekend to do the York one, but Chris gave me a look.

Runners are much more injury prone than cyclists, though. I've never been to a cycling event where the pre ride pep talk included "and when you're injured, don't forget you can still be involved as a volunteer".

As far as the actual cross-training benefit is concerned, I've heard of people running off their cycling fitness (in fact, I think trio25 said this the first time we met her) and I can safely say that just couldn't happen here- presumably because of the excess lard. Instead I seem to be getting a huge aerobic fitness boost from panting around the streets at night, which is grand, as that was/is kind of the point.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 11 November, 2013, 04:14:31 pm
Runners are much more injury prone than cyclists, though. I've never been to a cycling event where the pre ride pep talk included "and when you're injured, don't forget you can still be involved as a volunteer".

;D

This seems be fairly well accepted, but some still disagree. Your quote is the best succinct evidence I have seen, must remember that  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ewan Houzami on 11 November, 2013, 05:08:27 pm
I seem to be one of those who gets reasonably fit by running (not far) which transfers to riding my bike, especially being able to go up various grades of incline reasonably quickly without having to go into the red. The opposite doesn't hold.

Having stopped pretty much any form of exercise a couple of months ago due to stomach upsets and existential issues (dysthymia/depression), I started hobbling around my local circuit (i.e., the cemetery) much slower than I had before. After just three weeks I can finally do 5k - a distance which seems to have eluded me for a couple of years as I'd generally go too fast and my calves would seize up - without feeling remotely knackered. This makes me most happy. I really enjoy going for a run as it gives me a different (and perhaps more primitive) feeling of 'freedom' than cycling.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Glover Fan on 13 November, 2013, 09:50:16 pm
I have been an "on and off runner" for the past few years. All things considered, I am a better runner than a cyclist. However my right knee would rather I didn't run.

I hadn't run for over 6 months and a couple of weeks ago I did my local parkrun and did a 5k in 24:50. Last night I did 5k in 23:19.

My Parkrun "PB" is 22:09, provided my knee plays ball and I am intended to get into running gradually again then I would like to be able to run a sub 20 minute 5k come the end of the Winter.

As for effects on my cycling, I find I lose my "strength" as in it seems my muscles lean out and my legs really do get very lean. However this is tempered with weightloss and better top end, so my hill climbing is massively improved.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Henry on 16 November, 2013, 04:25:38 pm
Went for my first run for many years this morning. 2 gentle laps of the local park equalling about 2 miles, quite enjoyed it. Might do a bit more through the winter, been meaning to do some form of cross-training for a while now.

I figure that I should build it up gradually, and pay attention to stretching well afterwards. Taking these precautions into account, how much do proper running shoes make a difference to comfort would people say? I don't have any, just used the nearest thing I have, those Merrell trainer/light walking shoes with the vibram soles. Any recommendations? Mind you I guess the right shoe is as personal as the right bike. Or perhaps not important at all, considering those who do ultra-marathons barefoot...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: IanN on 16 November, 2013, 04:44:01 pm
Not being a runners build, in recent years I've played it safe with running shoes with plenty of shock absorbance in the heel - and based on advice from running shop for the way I run (you run up the road / on treadmill and they watch you...) . Easyrunner at the bottom of St Michaels Hill are good - or there's one on Whiteladies road - MOTI? Try to get the manager not the saturday staff...

No doubt someone else will say this is all rubbish - but it has worked for me.

As you say - build up. I have recently learned the error of having plenty of cycling fitness and little conditioning for impact.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 16 November, 2013, 05:41:08 pm
Before you do lots of miles it is well worth getting 'proper' shoes. If you are a "natural" heel-striker, cushioning is a good thing. But IMO you should give serious attention to the forefoot/heel landing technique debate before spending money on cushioned shoes.

There's been discussion upthread, but Search is broken, and it's covered  in more depth in "specialist" fora! (perhaps the key thing is that running with massive heel cushioning FORCES you to heel-strike - pretty much - so shoe choice is important).


Mind you, I've been out for 5 months from an injury caused by 10min barefoot, so ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Henry on 16 November, 2013, 07:59:55 pm
Thankyou guys yes I am hearing this, as much as I'd like to make do with what I have, or get some 2nd-hand Aldi running shoes, I should probably invest in something with a proper fit.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 23 November, 2013, 11:51:24 am
About the most stressful few days at work imaginable; limited sleep; & post-stress recover sessions on Thursday & Friday night in a local tavern helped to give me my parkrun PB this morning :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: JennyB on 23 November, 2013, 12:07:36 pm
About the most stressful few days at work imaginable; limited sleep; & post-stress recover sessions on Thursday & Friday night in a local tavern helped to give me my parkrun PB this morning :thumbsup:.

I read that as "my parkrun PBP"  :o
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 23 November, 2013, 02:16:26 pm
In contrast, running out of blood & iron means this morning I could barely run at all, and gave up.

It's like the last 6 weeks never happened.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Glover Fan on 23 November, 2013, 05:06:24 pm
Thankyou guys yes I am hearing this, as much as I'd like to make do with what I have, or get some 2nd-hand Aldi running shoes, I should probably invest in something with a proper fit.
Definitely. Some people scoff at the suggestion of proper running shoes, but proper expensive ones actually stopped my ankle hurting compared to the off the shelf Asics I bought at the now defunct JJB Sports. So there is merit to it. Besides once you have taken up cycling, what is £100 on a pair of shoes???

I went to Easyrunner in Bristol, very helpful and gave myself and my wife a discount on two pairs of shoes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 25 November, 2013, 11:11:17 am
Price isn't everything though - they need to be the right shoes, which aren't necessarily the most expensive.

I'm beginning to wonder if my expensive* trail shoes aren't actually the cause of my recent leg injuries, since the problems only seem to have started since I started running in them...

*RRP £110, though I didn't actually pay for them, hence I didn't actually have a choice in which shoes I got. If I were paying that much of my own money on running shoes, I would go to a proper running shop for decent advice and proper fitting. This is the process I went through to buy my other trail shoes, which cost £70, and I've never had a problem with them. It would be churlish to complain about getting a £110 pair of running shoes for free but if they're causing me injury, that makes them essentially worthless to me.

It's also possible that it's not so much the shoes that are causing me injury as the way I'm using them - largely on mixed surfaces, some trail, some paved. These are full-on trail shoes, with deep tread - very stable off-road but possibly not ideal on-road. My other shoes are perhaps just more suitable for the kind of mixed terrain running I do.

I really ought to get some proper road-running shoes as well.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 30 November, 2013, 11:23:49 am
Another Parkrun PB this morning. I now need a new goal now I'm sub 19 minutes :D.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 30 November, 2013, 11:28:25 am
Lol, I'm still chuffed that I don't get lapped.
New pb - 32:41.
 I was faster at York but that's completely flat, and tarmac, whereas we have mud and hills. It's surely going to be almost impossible to stay upright by March, we'll be calling it Bury Mud Madness.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 30 November, 2013, 11:50:51 am
well done both!! i've got second worst time today (at least it's not pw!). still trying to find the reason why i'm lagging by 1min on my usual time.
went to the gym afterwards for a stepper session and stretches.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 30 November, 2013, 11:55:44 am
Lol, I'm still chuffed that I don't get lapped.
New pb - 32:41.

PB, be happy :thumbsup:.


well done both!! i've got second worst time today (at least it's not pw!). still trying to find the reason why i'm lagging by 1min on my usual time.

How exposed is your ParkRun route? There was a decent wind blowing in East London today, so could that have had an impact?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 30 November, 2013, 02:52:05 pm
How exposed is your ParkRun route? There was a decent wind blowing in East London today, so could that have had an impact?

not too exposed (southwark park) and there have been windier events before. i blame the lack of cycling in the last couple of months, hey-ho :)
you run just a bit quicker than i - could make an perfect pace-setter!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 30 November, 2013, 03:23:11 pm
23.01 for me today. Definitely not a PB.

The chances of me ever going sub 20 are looking increasingly slim.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 30 November, 2013, 03:29:06 pm
Another Parkrun PB this morning. I now need a new goal now I'm sub 19 minutes :D.
Well fboab is doing a harder workout than you. How about aiming for something that takes 32+mins?
 :P

(there are traces of sense in that comment. Somewhere ... )



This morning's ride went thru Wallingford - "Caution Runners" signs. only saw 1 chap - walking and eating. I wasn't surprised when he said he was doing 100 miles  :thumbsup:
(Moral: there's always someone doing something harder/longer/cooler than you.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 30 November, 2013, 05:06:51 pm
Well fboab is doing a harder workout than you. How about aiming for something that takes 32+mins?

Nah. I don't like the pain, so find it's better to get it over with as quickly as possible ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 30 November, 2013, 10:04:48 pm
More than once, I've finished around the same time as a mum running with her 6 year old. I comfort myself with the knowledge that I'm probably carrying the equivalent of a six year old in excess lard.
So maybe you fast boys need to do it marine corps stylee with stupidly heavy packs?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 30 November, 2013, 11:20:17 pm
So maybe you fast boys need to do it marine corps stylee with stupidly heavy packs?

It's funny you should say that because that came up in conversation earlier today while I was lugging 24 kg of stuff back from Asda....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 01 December, 2013, 07:35:56 am
Hop?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: jacdaw on 02 December, 2013, 05:16:31 pm

This morning's ride went thru Wallingford - "Caution Runners" signs. only saw 1 chap - walking and eating. I wasn't surprised when he said he was doing 100 miles  :thumbsup:
(Moral: there's always someone doing something harder/longer/cooler than you.)

Centurion Winter 100?

http://www.centurionrunning.com/winter-100-2013/w100-2013-infopack/
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 02 December, 2013, 05:23:29 pm
That'll be it. There were a couple of Centurion t-shirts on display.
I've since read that they were running the 2nd "piece of string" event in parallel. I may have posted about it here last year. They had MUCH better conditions this year, almost perfect (apart from a little cold overnight). The 2012 PofS entrants waded 30 miles along flooded river-banks.
There was some #pieceofstring stuff on twitter, but no detailed reports (as of last night anyway).

EDIT: 'ere ya go:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/matt-butler-the-national-treasure-his-soiled-shorts-and-the-shaven-fairy-8976264.html?origin=internalSearch
Quote
Speaking of profile, a race which flew under almost everyone’s radars, the second annual Piece of String run, took place over the weekend. It is, as the name implies, a race where the participants start not knowing how far they have to run to the finish. It wasn’t on TV or radio (perish the thought) but was easy to follow via Twitter.

It started somewhere in Berkshire on Friday morning and ended almost 130 miles later on Saturday night, with Terrence Zengerink and Ben Hall the joint winners. As crazy as the Piece of String sounds, to some it represents the ideal test of the mental side of endurance sport. None of the runners have any public profile whatsoever, but there is no doubting the size of their hearts.

And this is entertaining:
http://www.centurionrunning.com/piece-of-string-fun-run/piece-of-string-2013-misery-pics/
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 10 December, 2013, 12:28:27 pm
Anyone get paresthesia while running? I had a painful attack in my left foot while out yesterday lunchtime. Weird. I was wearing the same shoes as usual, which have elastic laces so it's not like I'd done them up too tight.

Anyway, I bought some new running socks this morning, long ones with calf support, which may or may not make a difference. We shall see. If it recurs, I shall go to the doctor.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 13 December, 2013, 09:07:54 am
Link in today's parkrun email to Jantastic (http://www.jantastic.me/)
It's a challenge to help motivate you to consistency. I'll enter, as I like that kind of thing, and it'll take me to the end of March which is when the cycling ramps up and the running will recede.

Apparently you can enter as a team.
Anyone interested?

(The 'prize' is entry to the London Marathon 2015. I'm sure I don't need to tell you I'll be passing on that, in the unlikely event I get pulled out of the hat)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 20 December, 2013, 07:00:41 am
Number-swappers to be disqualified under new UKA rules
http://www.athleticsweekly.com/news/new-uka-rules/

Quote
Under the new rules, which come into operation on April 1 2014, athletes who run in transferred numbers in UKA-licensed road races without permission are to be disqualified. Both they and those who pass on the number will be subject to disciplinary action via the appropriate national organisation.

Many road races make arrangements for legal transfers of entries for those who wish to withdraw from the event and those seeking late entry, but unauthorised number-swapping is common and the bane of many organisers

Probably never enforced much below elite level, but interesting.

I've entered 2 road races - sold the place for one!  :-[  (I was injured, and it was feckin expensive. Your Honour.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: geraldc on 20 December, 2013, 11:04:00 am
Entered the Reading half marathon, to keep a mate who's doing the London marathon company. I guess I'll have to start jogging again.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 20 December, 2013, 11:31:32 am
Link in today's parkrun email to Jantastic (http://www.jantastic.me/)
It's a challenge to help motivate you to consistency. I'll enter, as I like that kind of thing, and it'll take me to the end of March which is when the cycling ramps up and the running will recede.

Apparently you can enter as a team.
Anyone interested?

I wasn't sure about this at first, but I reckon it could be good extra motivation in the cold months ahead, so yeah, why not? Have you set up a team?
 
Quote
(The 'prize' is entry to the London Marathon 2015. I'm sure I don't need to tell you I'll be passing on that, in the unlikely event I get pulled out of the hat)

This could be one of the main motivating factors for me. I'll probably never do the London Marathon unless I win entry via something like this. I've already missed out on the Parkrun "Chase the Place" option.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 20 December, 2013, 05:18:38 pm
Surely entering The Ballot would give you a better shot?  ??? [IANA expert on the London Marathon!]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 20 December, 2013, 05:25:29 pm
Surely entering The Ballot would give you a better shot?  ??? [IANA expert on the London Marathon!]

I'm not entirely sure that it is, tbh, given how few places are available to the ballot and how many people enter it. Plus you have to pay up front, which I have issues with.

I'm not that fussed about the London Marathon anyway - there are other nicer marathons - but I wouldn't turn down a free place.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: geraldc on 20 December, 2013, 05:41:44 pm
Join your local running club, they nearly always have places, and will train you to get round in reasonable time*

*This is according to my neighbour who only told me after I'd got through the ballot done the bloody thing
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 20 December, 2013, 09:24:41 pm
fwiw regarding london marathon ballot entries, i was unsuccessful four times, then successful two years in a row, then didn't get a place in 2012 and this year missed the entry date :facepalm: ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 21 December, 2013, 03:19:17 pm
I wasn't sure about this at first, but I reckon it could be good extra motivation in the cold months ahead, so yeah, why not? Have you set up a team?

We need 6 in to score. Can I have 5 further volunteers? Team is yacf.

(I've persuaded both my sisters to sign up. We'll be comparing & contrasting fat bird running in Suffolk, with thin lady running in Sydney, Australia, and thin woman running in Auckland NZ. Little sister's already told me she can only run at night as it's too hot in the daytime. Bless.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 21 December, 2013, 03:59:36 pm
I'd love to help - I suspect my 3mins once-a-month won't quite qualify, sorry.

(I followed jantastic last year, but had a few minor niggles then so didn't want to commit to too much. Had it started in Feb/March it would have been perfect!)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 27 December, 2013, 03:55:15 pm
Just been down to the Running Outlet in Canterbury to blow my Christmas cash on some new shoes.

Ended up with a pair of Asics Gel-Volt 33. Very comfortable. Can't wait to get out and try them.

Could probably have bought cheaper online but the chap in the shop took time to give me a proper gait analysis, which he talked me through, showing me the video on his computer, and helped me choose a suitable pair (ie didn't just steer me towards the most expensive), so I feel like I've got really good value.

Apparently, my gait is almost perfectly neutral, which is pleasing. I asked if the cycling is likely to be an influence on running style and he thought very likely. Interesting.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 31 December, 2013, 06:05:52 pm
I'm in now. I've set my target as three runs per week. Kind of wondering if I should give myself a harder target but I've got a few more days to make up my mind.

Finished off 2013 with a nice gentle 10-miler earlier today, and I'll be starting tomorrow as I hope to go on in 2014 - with a duathlon! Getting up for the Whitstable parkrun at 9am, then cycling the 29km to Margate for their parkrun at 10.30am. I'll be cutting it fine but I reckon it's doable - especially if the wind stays a southwesterly...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 31 December, 2013, 07:28:59 pm
I did my duathlon today- ran up a gert big hill (only 4km but 250m climbing) then went for a ride.

Three runs a week is all I'm willing to commit to- I'd rather manage that consistently for the 3 months than aim higher and fail. By the time I'm at the gym for 3 sessions and riding to work as well as a long ride at the weekend I reckon that's plenty.
I'm really starting to enjoy it, now. It's a great feeling of freedom, more than I get on a bike at the moment. Maybe not more, maybe just different.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on 01 January, 2014, 02:01:10 pm
We need 6 in to score. Can I have 5 further volunteers? Team is yacf

I have joined, and although I'm not exactly sure how motivational it'll be, I've committed myself to 5 runs a week. Just you and me in the team at the moment, fboab.
I've joined - just the motivation I need.  Target is 3 runs a week.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 01 January, 2014, 02:58:06 pm

Three runs a week is all I'm willing to commit to- I'd rather manage that consistently for the 3 months than aim higher and fail.

That's what I'm thinking too. I'd like to aim for 4 or 5 runs per week but i wouldn't realistically be able to manage it every week.

Quote
I'm really starting to enjoy it, now. It's a great feeling of freedom, more than I get on a bike at the moment. Maybe not more, maybe just different.

Same here. I've become more of a runner than a cyclist in recent months. Cycling is mostly just transport for me at the moment, while running is purely for fun. Probably not a bad thing - it's always this time of year I get into the cycling doldrums so it's nice to have something else to do to mix it up a bit.

Must do more cycling in 2014 though - I really need to do an SR with PBP 2015 in mind.

The duathlon went well. Took it easy round the first parkrun, 23.20, hammered it on the bike but was slowed down by ferocious crosswinds, taking a bit over an hour for the 29km, so arrived at parkrun 2 just as everyone was setting off, and started 2mins late but got round in 25mins according to my own timing.

Pretty pleased with that.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Pippa on 03 January, 2014, 04:10:37 pm
We need 6 in to score. Can I have 5 further volunteers? Team is yacf

I have joined, and although I'm not exactly sure how motivational it'll be, I've committed myself to 5 runs a week. Just you and me in the team at the moment, fboab.
I've joined - just the motivation I need.  Target is 3 runs a week.

I've just joined as well. I need something more than my willpower alone to make me go running so hopefully this will help.....

Am also aiming for 3 runs per week. Am I right in thinking distance/speed etc doesn't matter ???
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on 04 January, 2014, 10:49:33 am
Am also aiming for 3 runs per week. Am I right in thinking distance/speed etc doesn't matter ???

Welcome aboard  :thumbsup: . Yes, for the first bit of the challenge, speed and distance aren't important: http://www.jantastic.me/rules/ (http://www.jantastic.me/rules/), I think you can go through the whole challenge without worrying too much about that.
Welcome Pippa, it's not been a while :)

If speed were important, audaxers like me wouldn't be interested.  Distance, on the other hand ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 04 January, 2014, 12:15:20 pm
Out running again for the first time in ages!
Using the C25K week 4 as a training run, I ended up doing 4.6km in 35min 13 sec (including 5 min warm up / warm down at end).

Logged the run using endomondo!   :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 04 January, 2014, 12:25:20 pm
Well done, BrianI - getting out there at all in current conditions is an achievement in itself.

One of my aims for 2014 is to do more parkrun tourism, riding to parkruns further afield - thought about riding to Gillingham for the Great Lines parkrun today but I was far too late getting out of bed. Nearly too late for the local one too, and was so late setting off that I had to drive to get there in time. But I'm glad I made the effort rather than staying in bed, which seemed by far the more appealing option at 8am. Lousy time today though. Oh well!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 04 January, 2014, 08:40:13 pm
Am I right in thinking distance/speed etc doesn't matter ???
It better not!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 05 January, 2014, 02:10:18 pm
Can I have 5 further volunteers? Team is yacf.

Done. 5 runs per week for me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 05 January, 2014, 04:36:24 pm
Well done, BrianI - getting out there at all in current conditions is an achievement in itself.


Cheers cityoen.  Think I may have overdone it yesterday, very sair legs, which didn't help my 66km bike ride today.....

Will probably be starting my new job soon, so will have less time for cycling, but hopefully more time for running!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: swiss hat on 05 January, 2014, 05:09:26 pm
Can I have 5 further volunteers? Team is yacf.

Done. 5 runs per week for me.

Me too. 6 runs/week. Aiming to build up for Steyning Stinger marathon on 2nd March. Did a 3hr/20mile run along the Grand Union canal towpath from Ealing this morning  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 05 January, 2014, 06:10:32 pm
This is cool - now when I listen to Marathon Talk I will actually know people doing Jantastic. Far more interesting than last year  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 08 January, 2014, 09:35:05 pm
Presumably Swiss Hat is saving them up to log all at once at the end of the week?
As to the "leaders", well, you're only cheating yourself. /mum voice.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 09 January, 2014, 12:15:29 pm
I haven't looked at the leaderboard. Not interested. I'm doing it for me. And the team, obviously.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 09 January, 2014, 02:37:47 pm
As the 'competition' is consistency it's all a bit bollocks at this stage, no?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 09 January, 2014, 02:57:05 pm
I suppose it's conceivable that some people are doing three or more runs per day. But unlikely.

I've just logged my second run for the week and rated it: "Great, I feel amazing." It was just the usual lunchtime route, and wasn't especially fast, but it went really well, considerably better than on Monday's lunchtime slog. This is encouraging.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: swiss hat on 09 January, 2014, 06:53:36 pm
Well, the team seems to be coming along nicely, although I can't help thinking that Swiss Hat has given himself some running to do at the end of the week, with 6 to do by Sunday.

All going to plan, I've logged 2 & also run this evening. Will have short run out in local park tomorrow, long slow run on Sat and XC race on Sun. Add in the cycle commuting all week + circuits on Monday for a full week! 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Pippa on 10 January, 2014, 09:43:21 am
I have been reminded this week of my dislike for running. Meh.

I think with the return to work after a 2 week break, combined with cycle commuting again after a 2 week break has perhaps made adding running on top that bit harder. Oof I'm tired and my legs hurt.

I went for a run as soon as I got home from work on Monday night so it was essentially a brick session, jumping straight off the bike and onto the run. Ouch.

I got home late'ish Tues-Thurs so couldn't face going for a run. If it wasn't for Jantastic, there is no way I would have dragged myself out of bed early this morning to go for a run before work. I'm not a morning person. Ouch, again. Still, at least run 2 is done so one more this week, planned for Sunday.

So yay to Jantastic otherwise I would have stayed snuggled up in bed. But boo to running generally. I'm really hoping by sticking at it, my view will change.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 10 January, 2014, 10:10:42 am
But boo to running generally. I'm really hoping by sticking at it, my view will change.
I used to hate it, and generally hate doing things I'm utterly rubbish at. I can't even remember why I thought I'd give it a proper go this time. Might just have been for the Zombies, tbh.
I'm still utterly rubbish at running but I do like

I have to say though, running up Ingram Valley, even in the pissing rain, is a lot nicer than pounding the streets of BSE after a long boring day at work.
Maybe the fact I'm utterly rubbish is motivating in itself? I see 'improvements' every week- last night I ran without any walking intervals all the way from Battlies Green home- 5km. That's the furthest EVAH and I felt like an absolute GOD.
(It was outrageously slow but I don't care. I am a GOD)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 10 January, 2014, 10:18:34 am
riding to work i was thinking about jantastic and what i would consider a run. i came to conclusion that to say "i did a run" i'd have to run 3km or more. regarding cycling, probably anything over 20km can be considered a ride.
what distance run would you call a workout?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Chris S on 10 January, 2014, 10:23:19 am
what distance run would you call a workout?

That's relative, isn't it? For me a run to Tesco, which is over there ------------->

(points out of window at Tesco, 300m away)

would be a workout.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 10 January, 2014, 10:24:23 am
Quote from: jantastic
What constitutes a run?

It’s really up to you but we think that as a minimum going for a run means your running gear on and completing a run or walk/run workout of one mile or more.

Putting your gear on and running first thing on a Saturday morning for one mile or more = a run
Running to catch a bus on your way home = not a run
Running to and from work, separated by a day in the office = two runs.
Running to the cafe, enjoying a brew for 10minutes, running home = one run.
Ultimately, this is an honesty based challenge. The real competition is with yourself. If you think it really doesn’t constitute a run, then it probably doesn’t.

I'd say half an hour~3km is about right, and would also say it takes 20km to be a ride. 30km, in the summer. A mile doesn't seem enough, but maybe it is if you actually run, rather than shamble.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 10 January, 2014, 06:22:35 pm
Another wee run today, using Couch to 5k week 5 run 1 as a base.  Ended up 4.55km in 36min 10 seconds.   :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 10 January, 2014, 07:45:38 pm
I'm now five from five for Jantastic having run 24 km this week and ParkRun tomorrow :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on 11 January, 2014, 09:01:40 am
I agree Pippa, if it hadn't been for Jantastic I wouldn't have run last Thursday. I had all the excuses not to. 3rd run on Sunday. I've lost over 1kg over the last 10 days. I'm motivated now. Thinking of doing an ECE parkrun on Saturdays at Osterley Park.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 11 January, 2014, 11:18:34 am
I've just finished 7th consecutive days of running by doing a ParkRun & then running the 5 km home. Ouch.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 11 January, 2014, 05:43:05 pm
Well something has gone wrong with my Park Run time cos I finished in top 20 (based on number of folks in front of me & my finishing number), but I've been credited it position 60. Hmm....

Excellent! I was wondering whether you might score 120% for that, but it seems not.

It seems sensible that I get 100 % or else lots of folk would opt for three runs per week and then do six / seven runs etc to get 200+ %.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Pippa on 12 January, 2014, 03:55:56 pm
Run 3 done. That felt a LOT better than the other 2. I guess going in the afternoon when I was well rested and well fed rather than first thing in the morning or straight from the cycle commute home helped. I knocked nearly 20secs off my average km pace and actually ran the second half of the run at the kind of pace I would like to be consistenly running at. Don't get me wrong, I'm not fast at all - sub 30 mins 5km and I'd be happy, but this now seems more realistic than it did earlier in the week. Phew. Motivation restored.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 12 January, 2014, 04:14:53 pm
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 13 January, 2014, 06:12:52 pm
Running 7½ km in the rain after a 10 hour working day is made worse when you can feel the bonk getting closer and closer. But on the bright side, that's my first Jantastic run of the week done :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 13 January, 2014, 06:53:24 pm
First run since 17 December. Slow.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 13 January, 2014, 07:46:55 pm
Back on the treadmill at work. I'll sleep well tonight (the run was followed by 20 mins on the step machine and then 20 mins on the rowing machine)!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 16 January, 2014, 06:54:39 pm
Much more mortal (to the point of troglodyte) tonight. Meh. The stats aren't much different, but tonight definitely felt like a walk with jogging interludes rather than vice versa.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 16 January, 2014, 10:09:23 pm
Second run of the week done at lunchtime but I haven't updated Jantastic yet.

It was glorious out there today. Perfect conditions for running - sunny and cool. Positively spring-like. Slightly odd in the middle of January.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 18 January, 2014, 01:29:35 pm
Weighed in at <69kg this morning for the first time since early October.

Ran 21.19 at this morning's parkrun - my first short 21 since early October.

Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 18 January, 2014, 02:39:38 pm
I'm done for Jantastic Week #2 , and I managed to duck under 19 mins for the ParkRun this morning & then enjoyed felt OK on the 6½ km run home :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: swiss hat on 18 January, 2014, 04:21:27 pm
A lap of Richmond Park this morning for me including 2 x 3 hills. But I tripped over a branch on descent of Star and Garter hill and fell full length in the mud grazing both knees and putting hole in running tights  >:( Must have looked a sight on rest of lap and got a few smiles from others. Perhaps I should have ridden the Willy Warmer instead?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on 18 January, 2014, 06:21:05 pm
Today, I hope to do my second run of the week.  I logged my first yesterday together with a joker.  I'm having a sparse week with travelling and losing a day.  It would be easy to not run at all, so I'm happy I signed up to Jantastic.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 18 January, 2014, 07:42:42 pm
I've done all mine.  :smug:
Didn't do the parkrun as last week's was depressingly slow hard work in the mud, so I went and played in the woods.
Managed to get in the zone and floated (as much as anyone with a BMI of 30+ can float) over mossy tussocks with a big fat grin on my face.
Bit grumpy afterwards as I know I covered 10km but the GPS didn't get signal until part way round, and as everyone knows, if there's no recording, it didn't happen.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on 19 January, 2014, 04:09:17 am
Nope, I didn't do my run today.  I was told it was too hot to run, what can you do but agree.  Never mind, it was a good week to use the joker.  Tomorrow I'll be up before breakfast.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 19 January, 2014, 02:18:11 pm
I just updated Jantastic and I noticed that it had me down for only 67% (ie 2 out of 3 runs) for week 1. Chiz! I did the runs and I was sure I'd updated the log... What a nuisance.

Anyway, I'm down as 100% for week 2 at least.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 21 January, 2014, 09:02:52 am
So. Ice. What do you do for that, then?
My trail shoes have mud shedding grip but the sole is quite a hard compound and is slippy on shiny wet concrete. The other trainers have less tread.
Do I find a school playing field and do laps of it, avoiding unsalted pavements?
Or is there a secret?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Chris S on 21 January, 2014, 09:22:04 am
Or is there a secret?

A treadmill.

* runs and hides *
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 21 January, 2014, 09:52:29 am
Yup. If there's enough ice around to be dangerous, off-road is often at its best.

(Playing fields are safest. Or you can take an exciting gamble on footpaths that are too muddy on warm winter days; Will you get lovely frosty ground? Or muddy puddles with a deceptive skin of ice on top?!? )

Sustrans routes are usually quite good - I always knew they had a use...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: fuaran on 21 January, 2014, 12:56:22 pm
If there's loads of ice and snow, then some sort of shoe grips/chains/spikes can help. eg Yaktrax.
Though they are not very good on tarmac, rather slippy and will probably wear out quickly. So I wouldn't use them if its only a few patches of ice.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Pippa on 24 January, 2014, 03:01:53 pm
It seems we can now set our Feb targets on Jantastic. We need to set the number of runs per week and a distance for the longest run of the week. I've decided to stick with 3 runs per week as that at least seems doable. I've set my long runs for each week at 5km. Yeah ok that isn't all that long in the grand scheme of things, but if I can consistently run 5km every week for four weeks, that will be the most consistent running I will have ever achieved ever.

Actually, the last 3 weeks of Jantastic have been the most consistent running I've ever done (even when I did a triathlon a few years ago - no wonder I limped around the 10kms). I started out at the beginning of Jan just going for 20 mins each run and have built it up by 2 mins each week, so that should take me to 28 mins for the first week of Feb. I think my time for 5km should be about 31-32 mins (I'd love it to be sub 30 mins but that can come later). I guess with 5km as my target I can just aim to go to Parkrun each week and run/jog (well, not walk) all the way round.

So yes I'm slow, but I figure slow runs is better than no runs. And 5km seems achievable whereas this time last year 5 mins was a daunting enough challenge.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 24 January, 2014, 03:39:58 pm
My 5k times are in this thread somewhere and they're not sub-30 minutes! I have a plan/goal that my park run times should be less than my BMI... but I'm losing weight a bit too fast, damn it.

My feeling is- I'm not a runner. I'm short & fat & muscled rather than lean and slight, so I'm not built for it. I can't imagine that's ever, really, going to change, but as per thread title, I think I am getting considerable cross training benefits. And by all accounts, consistency is key.

I don't think I can actually run for more than about 20 minutes, if I even manage that long. I'm working on slowing down even more on my long runs so I can run for longer without walking.

"run" is clearly not a very accurate description!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 25 January, 2014, 07:46:11 am
I've told myself that when I get down to 85kg I'll give a Parkrun a try (there are two within a couple of miles from me so no excuse).

I can do 20 minutes on the treadmill at work but it's in a windowless airless room in the basement but, at current weight whilst I feel fine at 10 minutes I'm near collapse in a sweaty mess approaching 20 minutes. I know it gets easier as my weight goes down (and fitness goes up) as I built up to 35 minutes last year, but running outside should help with the overheating problem. I need airflow!
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 25 January, 2014, 03:15:17 pm
I went for a lunchtime run with my colleague on Thursday. I'm 41, he's 28, but he struggles to keep up with me.

Thing is, he's over three stone heavier than me. He's not in bad shape, he's just bigger than me all round. Not built for running. It makes a huge difference.

I only started to enjoy running *after* I lost weight. I don't think I could have used running as a way to lose weight. I'm lucky that my physique is quite well suited to running - as long as I keep the excess off it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 25 January, 2014, 03:33:15 pm
I can run being heavy, I just hate it, but it's the best thing for stripping the weight off me given I don't have a huge amount of free time to do lots of other exercise (long slow rides worked wonders when I didn't have childcare responsibilities).

I can get through 35 minutes at 10.5kph on a treadmill when I'm 90kg (I'm a shortarse at 5'9").

It's considerably easier when I'm down under 80kg (but that's still me "overweight", I should be 76kg max, ideally 70kg but I haven't seen that since I was about 16).

To put it in context, I was ~80kg back in 2009 when I did rides like the Elenith, Bryan Chapman and LEL (all on fixed) and 84kg for PBP in 2011.

For the losing weight part it's not about enjoyment.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 25 January, 2014, 03:34:47 pm
It seems obvious to me that cycling is a better sport for the very overweight (or maybe rowing, or other obscure sports... ).
n.b. I'm not saying people should be told NOT to do something they really want to.

(There was an excellent post waaaay back from Lee about how 6st Kenyans were made for running, but not the rest of us. Slight exaggeration I think, but some truth in there! Can't find it now, sadly )

And seconds later, I come across this  (http://road.cc/content/news/108719-new-study-shows-cycling-really-better-running)!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 25 January, 2014, 04:16:44 pm
Yeah, and next week they're publishing a report on ursine toilet habits. Conclusion: yes, they do.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 27 January, 2014, 12:02:47 pm
A wee run today, 4.36km in 33min 12 seconds (includes 5 min warm up / warm down) - need to figure out how to set endomondo to take this into account...

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 27 January, 2014, 02:24:38 pm
A wee run today, 4.36km in 33min 12 seconds (includes 5 min warm up / warm down) - need to figure out how to set endomondo to take this into account...

RunDouble (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rundouble.companion&hl=en_GB) will ignore it.



I'm #1= in my local area.  :smug:

(There's loads of us on 100%, so no great victory)

I think we're doing pretty good as a team though.  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 27 January, 2014, 05:16:02 pm
Have just seen this thread, which prompts me to warn about how dangerous running can be....

I used to run when I was at school and gave up when I realised how much more ground you could cover on two wheels (and then four).  Later in adulthood discovered cycling, injured myself playing cricket and stuck to cycling rather than running.  Any cross training I did was in the gym and on rowing machines. 

A change of job brought me to an organisation that regularly entered 30+ runners into the Reading Half Marathon, so, not having run competitively for over 30 years (or at all for 15) I put on a pair of trainers and started off with a 2 mile loop around my suburb at the tail end of 2011.  I trained for the Reading Half, was satisfied with my time and hung by trainers up. 

A few months later Mrs CET, probably in an attempt to persuade me to cycle less, asked me why I wasn't running.  For which there were plenty of reasons, mostly unprintable, but summed up by "cycling hurts less than running".  However, in order to satisfy her indoors, I decided to do some more running and as a target entered the Basingstoke Half Marathon.  This went in a time which I was more than satisfied with but, unfortunately, also convinced me that I was a reasonable runner.   

Not one to do things by halves I decided I should fulfil one of those childhood goals and go for the full thing.  The Reading Half, the Combe Gibbet (a 16 mile cross-country run) as prep races, and the Milton Keynes Marathon.  The Reading Half was a new PB, the Combe Gibbet went better and the Milton Keynes Marathon was a disappointment as it took me 29 minutes more to do the second half than the first half.

Bored with running on roads, I entered the Clarendon Marathon which is an off-road event between Salisbury and Winchester in September last year and did a generally OK time, but found the off-road running much more entertaining than the road version, so have now entered the Sussex Coast Marathon with the joys of Beachy Head and the Seven Sisters.

So this weekend I ran 19 miles at some unseasonably early hour on Saturday as part of my marathon training and then rode 100km on the club run on Sunday.  The rest of the weekend was doing chores to earn enough brownie points from Mrs CET to make up for the aforementioned training. 

You have been warned....

And, in terms of improvements in my cycling.  Its difficult to measure much change, particularly as after 19 miles running the day before, the CCB club run was more daunting than it usually is.

However, because it is something different, I'm probably more excited about the Sussex Coast Marathon than I am about most of the cycling events I've got planned this year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 27 January, 2014, 05:31:49 pm
I know what you mean, CET. I don't want running to take over completely so I've set aside the first half of this year for cycling - get my SR in by the end of May (with a small running interlude for the local 10k) - but after that, it's into training for what will be my first full marathon in September (with a small cycling interlude for a second 600 in August).

I might even end up doing two marathons this year - after enjoying the Beauty & The Beast so much last year, which I did as part of a team so only ran a third of a marathon, I'm keen to do the whole thing solo. Not sure yet if it's actually on this year though. (I did have a look at the Sussex Coast marathon as well, funnily enough, but it clashes with something else, iirc. Looks like a fantastic course.)

And then after the marathon is out of the way, the intention is to spend next autumn/winter doing some more cyclocross.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 28 January, 2014, 11:54:53 am
I've set my Feb targets on Jantastic - gone for 10km as my longest run on weeks 1, 2 and 4 but 20km for week 3 as I'm off work that week and should have time to fit in a long one. Still pretty ambitious for me!

I may end up using my joker this week though - got a bit of a chesty cold thing going on. Planning a run at lunchtime today but will cut it short if it doesn't feel good.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 28 January, 2014, 12:58:15 pm
Ran for the first time since July this morning - ankles held out, which was a result. Only 5km (muddy, offroad), but felt great to be running again. Going to try for 3x a week.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: adenough on 28 January, 2014, 05:03:31 pm
If I can't get out on the bike I try to run. When I say try, I run/walk. I used to run a lot including marathons. But I'm a big heavy guy. 14stone. 6'2".
I've never been a great runner, just a runner. I could never get below 3.5 hours for a marathon.
I find if I slow down to a fast walk my body says, come on, and I'm off running again. I think I'm doing that Fartlek thing. Suppose to be good for the heart.
Anyway it's a good option off the bike. I'll go out running even if it's raining as I'm back in 40mins job done.
On the bike I need a couple of hours. No fun in the rain.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 28 January, 2014, 08:51:43 pm
On the bike I need a couple of hours. No fun in the rain.

At the end of my 4 hour training ride on Sunday, 60km with club 40km on my own , cold wet and tired, on my own I looked enviously across the road at the runner heading in the opposite direction.  To be returned by an equally envious look at my wheels.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence….
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 29 January, 2014, 09:01:45 am
10 mile TTs - I feel pretty bloody f**ked after those 27mins.

I can still ride home afterwards - rather slowly, it must be said. Or I could do a 50min interval session from my door. A lot of this is mental - it is quite possible to ride a bike at 110bpm, but most people can't run at such a low effort level, and in fact tend to much higher levels even when any sensible training schedule would include some low-effort stuff.

If running has a "time advantage" it's in the kit aspects, especially in winter. Big win. But the flip-side is that you can get fit on a bike getting to work, or the shops, or a pub. For the most part your running session is wasted time.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence….
Indeed  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Dibdib on 29 January, 2014, 09:03:30 am
Did my first C25k session last night. Hope I can stick to it  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 29 January, 2014, 09:21:37 am
the flip-side is that you can get fit on a bike getting to work, or the shops, or a pub. For the most part your running session is wasted time.
I'd dispute both those. If you think you're getting fit riding at 8-9mph for 15 minutes to the shops or to work, you're kidding yourself.
I run home from the station once a week. Takes an hour, as opposed to half an hour on the bike. I'm not alone in doing a running commute.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 29 January, 2014, 09:31:20 am
the flip-side is that you can get fit on a bike getting to work, or the shops, or a pub. For the most part your running session is wasted time.
I'd dispute both those. If you think you're getting fit riding at 8-9mph for 15 minutes to the shops or to work, you're kidding yourself.
I run home from the station once a week. Takes an hour, as opposed to half an hour on the bike. I'm not alone in doing a running commute.
1) The ride to the shops is making you fitter than driving. Fact. But that's not what I meant, as you know - you can certainly get a useful workout on any commute. And you could certainly get fit doing a long hard ride to a pub. My point appears to stand.

2) Note the "most" in my post. Yes a few people do "running commutes" - but it's way more practicable to do on a bike. You can cover far more distance and carry more stuff. (As a ratio, how many running commutes do you know of vs cycling? ) You could take your half-hour bike commute and extend it to an hour. Or not, as you see fit.

So I refute your dispute!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 29 January, 2014, 10:19:46 am
1) The ride to the shops is making you fitter than driving. Fact. But that's not what I meant, as you know - you can certainly get a useful workout on any commute. And you could certainly get fit doing a long hard ride to a pub. My point appears to stand.

2) Note the "most" in my post. Yes a few people do "running commutes" - but it's way more practicable to do on a bike. You can cover far more distance and carry more stuff. (As a ratio, how many running commutes do you know of vs cycling? ) You could take your half-hour bike commute and extend it to an hour. Or not, as you see fit.

So I refute your dispute!
My point remains- just because you can doesn't mean you do! Very few people actually do get 'a useful workout' on a bike commute. Probably about as many as do a running commute!
Cycling as transport is a marvellous thing, but most people doing it are barely using more energy than walking. In lots of cases they'd be better off walking, as walking is weight bearing and cycling isn't. Most of the people on bikes in BSE I see on this path walk their bikes over this footbridge (http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=586222&Y=264182&A=Y&Z=115) because it's too steep to ride without making an effort. That's how much work they generally put into cycling- not as much as they would have to make to walk. Sure you can carry more stuff on a bike- that's why I only run once a week, but that one run is 'worth' 4 times the pootle home on the same route with a bike. If all the exercise I did was commuting/to the shops/ just riding round town I'd lose fitness very very quickly.
Running is only wasted time in the same way as cleaning your teeth is.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 29 January, 2014, 10:34:07 am
Well I agree with most of what you've written there. But this is the interesting bit

My point remains- just because you can doesn't mean you do!
[did you make this point in your earlier post? I can't seen it ... anyway ... ]

As I posted, this is a mental thing. I know lots of riders who do a pretty hard workout, usually on their way home [or look at LC's morning training schedule !]. Whatever you post as your HR/effort levels/durations for your running commute, it's perfectly possible for you match that while riding home. I completely agree that many cyclists DON'T do this, because it's so easy (and nice!) to ride at 100-120bpm.

So yes, the quote above is pretty key. But so is this:

that's why I only run once a week

Anyhoo, there are too many swings and roundabouts here to audit fully ... we'll probably have to agree to disagree :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 29 January, 2014, 10:43:08 am
I might wear my HRM on my commute tomorrow morning just to see if I can put some numbers on it. I probably do exceed 120bpm but I'd guess I very rarely go above 150bpm unless I'm late and in danger of missing my train.

My lunchtime runs usually average ~170bpm for 35-45mins.

I have tried running to the station in the morning but it's not really practical in winter - dressed in just running gear, I get very cold on the train (I can get away with wearing/carrying heavier clothing when I'm on the bike). I'll definitely do it more in the summer though.

You do see a lot of people running to/from work in central London. Not as many as cycling, obviously, but on the other hand, you don't see many people going for a lunchtime bike ride.

If I'm doing my long ride after work, I do often push quite hard but I think because I'm conditioned to cycling, I have to push harder on the bike to get a benefit than when I run. Hence running is a better workout for less effort, for me. YMMV.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 29 January, 2014, 11:02:49 am
Of course whatever happens in Central London is the most important thing. Case closed!

Sorry, didn't mean to be snarky.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 29 January, 2014, 11:05:30 am
Of course whatever happens in Central London is the most important thing. Case closed!

No, what happens in central London is likely to be different to everywhere else and therefore not representative. That's why I specified that detail.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 29 January, 2014, 12:55:42 pm
I've not thought about running as part of a commute (the 51 mile distance between home and office is a bit of a downer, even when I am in an office rather than at a client site).  But also, as running has so much more impact on the body than cycling I am disciplined about stretching afterwards - and there aren't the facilities in the office to spend 15 minutes stretching
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 29 January, 2014, 01:04:08 pm
The considerations are mostly the same as a bike. I have a shower at work, but I still tend to pootle in, rush home. Running is the same- walk in, run home. My departure station is closer to home than my evening arrival station. I leave the excess crap at work, so all I have is keys & railcard to carry (and a head torch when I remember it).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 29 January, 2014, 01:04:38 pm
there aren't the facilities in the office to spend 15 minutes stretching

 ???

What facilities do you need?

My lunchtime post-run stretches involve use of the sandwich board outside Starbucks (for hamstring stretches), the edge of the kerb (for calf stretches) and a lamppost to hold on to for balance (for quad stretches).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 29 January, 2014, 06:32:58 pm
the flip-side is that you can get fit on a bike getting to work, or the shops, or a pub. For the most part your running session is wasted time.
I'd dispute both those. If you think you're getting fit riding at 8-9mph for 15 minutes to the shops or to work, you're kidding yourself.

I suppose 'it depends'. When I first got back on the bike and started to regularly commute to work (4 days a week) I was getting fitter. It was also helping me lose weight.
Eleven years later and with a better bike, this is no longer the case. The ride to and from work is nice as I get out into the fresh air and don't have to use the car, but I know I no longer have to work hard enough for it to make much difference to my fitness.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 29 January, 2014, 08:16:18 pm
there aren't the facilities in the office to spend 15 minutes stretching

 ???

What facilities do you need?

My lunchtime post-run stretches involve use of the sandwich board outside Starbucks (for hamstring stretches), the edge of the kerb (for calf stretches) and a lamppost to hold on to for balance (for quad stretches).

Space and privacy to look silly, especially for the awkward stretches I have to do to sort out the groin injury I got playing indoor cricket yonks ago (setting oneself up for sarky comments  :face palm:)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 29 January, 2014, 09:01:58 pm
Ah, I see what you mean. I do most of my stretches outdoors in public view but I save the glute stretches for when I'm back in the safe sanctuary and relative privacy of the changing room.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 30 January, 2014, 08:27:29 am
You two with your glute and groin stretches remind me of the first para of this:
http://www.marathontalk.com/boyontherun/2013/11/27/how-to-be-a-running-poser/
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 30 January, 2014, 08:57:23 am
Ran again yesterday. Bit of DOMS this morning, but to be expected given no running since July. Going to do 5km tomorrow too, albeit the childish part of me wants to do ten to get the badge on Strava.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 30 January, 2014, 09:23:31 am
the childish part of me wants to do ten to get the badge on Strava.

I know I covered 10km but the GPS didn't get signal until part way round, and as everyone knows, if there's no recording, it didn't happen.

 :-[
I probably will give it a go tonight. I deliberately held back a bit at spinning this morning so I could.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 30 January, 2014, 09:34:48 am
You two with your glute and groin stretches remind me of the first para of this:
http://www.marathontalk.com/boyontherun/2013/11/27/how-to-be-a-running-poser/

That is brilliant.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 31 January, 2014, 10:35:18 am
You two with your glute and groin stretches remind me of the first para of this:
http://www.marathontalk.com/boyontherun/2013/11/27/how-to-be-a-running-poser/

Top stuff   Though I would need surgery to recover from the position shown.

Took advantage of a quiet workload to fit in a long run in preparation for the Sussex Coast Marathon in 7 weeks time.  First time over 20 miles in training and the legs are in reasonable shape - so my once a week progressive distance running is working (12, 14, 16.8, 19, 21.5…)  Will have no long run next weekend as am fitting in 2 x 100km rides to keep ahead of the 50 x 100km cycle curve for the year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 31 January, 2014, 10:08:50 pm
My years of playing the role of "plucky cyclist" battling whatever weather have been perfect training for my role this evening of "determined runner".
 Beyond wet. That whole car-passes-through-lake-entire-bath-of-filthy-water-thrown-at-you. Twice.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Dibdib on 31 January, 2014, 10:23:02 pm
Day two of couch to 5k. 4km in about 32 mins. Shin pain, interminable drizzle, and I accidentally stepped in a two-inch-deep puddle.

Still feel good though.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 31 January, 2014, 10:23:19 pm
Interesting. Facebook is full of runners complaining about the car-passes-through-lake-entire-bath-of-filthy-water-thrown-at-you thing.

But no cyclists! Ideas on a postcard ...etc ...etc ...

As you say, you have aeons of HTFU training behind you - I can't think of a better person to deal with such things ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 01 February, 2014, 03:38:28 pm
Jantastic Week 4 is done, resulting in 58 km of running (the majority of which was running from work to home ;) ).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 01 February, 2014, 03:43:56 pm
Played my joker this week. Chesty cold so haven't run since Tuesday. Bleurgh.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 05 February, 2014, 08:34:12 am
Really over-reached myself on Sunday (I reckoned from the map it was 11km, actually turned out to be 14+) so didn't hold out much positive thoughts for last night's Long Run (the only opportunity this week, what with running not being My Whole Life an' all).
And indeed it was painful, and felt painfully slow, but the stats (mostly) don't lie and 9.4km in 10 minutes faster than I did 7.5km (slightly different route home) the first time I did it, back n December. TBH if I'd realised I was that close to 10k in under an hour I'd have run round the block again. (How can I do 9.4km in 56 minutes and not 5k in <32min? How does that work?)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 05 February, 2014, 09:13:24 am
(How can I do 9.4km in 56 minutes and not 5k in <32min? How does that work?)

My fastest 100mile TT (on the bike) is faster than my fastest 50 mile (not for want of trying).  Sometimes it just goes well. 

Also, I found when I went back to running at the end of 2011 after a 34 year break that my speed went up quite quickly.  Suspect if you went back to the 5k having ramped up the distance it would be under 30min.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 06 February, 2014, 10:53:01 am
Day two of couch to 5k. 4km in about 32 mins. Shin pain, interminable drizzle, and I accidentally stepped in a two-inch-deep puddle.

Still feel good though.  :thumbsup:

How often does C25K require you to get ou?   
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Dibdib on 06 February, 2014, 11:00:18 am
Day two of couch to 5k. 4km in about 32 mins. Shin pain, interminable drizzle, and I accidentally stepped in a two-inch-deep puddle.

Still feel good though.  :thumbsup:

How often does C25K require you to get ou?

The recommendation is three times a week, for *checks* nine weeks. The three runs in each week are (usually) the same.

I'm currently working away in Germay so obviously couldn't bring a bike. Packed my trainers instead and did Wk 1 Day 3 on Tuesday, and if it stays dry I'll have a go at the first run in week 2 tonight.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 06 February, 2014, 11:17:07 am
Ah, I sort of guessed that but the website doesn't seem to say this.  I was not prepared to download the schedule because there was all sorts of junk attached in the form of toolbars etc. so I decided that it might be unwise.

My own plan involves three dedicated session per week on foot.   I did my first 'running' yesterday.    :thumbsup:

 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 06 February, 2014, 11:26:51 am
I worked my way throught the Zombies 5k. It's the same thing, pretty much, 3 x a week, 8 weeks, walk-run drills with knee lifts, heel lifts and the occasional bout of skipping to make you feel even more of a twit, but does include a) your own music and b) a zombie laden story. There're quite a few couch-to-5k apps for Android (and presumably iThing).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Dibdib on 06 February, 2014, 12:09:54 pm
Ah, I sort of guessed that but the website doesn't seem to say this.  I was not prepared to download the schedule because there was all sorts of junk attached in the form of toolbars etc. so I decided that it might be unwise.

My own plan involves three dedicated session per week on foot.   I did my first 'running' yesterday.    :thumbsup:

I worked my way throught the Zombies 5k. It's the same thing, pretty much, 3 x a week, 8 weeks, walk-run drills with knee lifts, heel lifts and the occasional bout of skipping to make you feel even more of a twit, but does include a) your own music and b) a zombie laden story. There're quite a few couch-to-5k apps for Android (and presumably iThing).

I'm using the NHS's C25k app* which is thankfully spammy-toolbar free. No knee lifts or zombies, just walk-run drills building up to "go run for half an hour".  No music, but plays very nicely with the iphone media player - so when I go out I fire up C25k, a Daft Punk playlist, and Strava**.

* for iPhone, but I think it's available for Android and also as an iTunes podcast or a plain download from the NHS website.
** because GPS or it didn't happen.  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: redshift on 06 February, 2014, 07:10:21 pm
My name is redshift, and I'm not a runner.

This is a bit like me telling Andy Gates that I'm not a long-distance rider just after 80+ miles of riding in a torrential downpour on the way to Preston.  I'm not.  Really I'm not.  I commute mostly by bike and do occasional longer rides, and on the occasions when I used to run at all doing sports, they were always short springy twisty things like sprints, rounders and netball.

So. At Xmas 2012 I caught flu.  Badly.  It left me with a coughing asthmatic wheeze that I haven't been able to shake, and it took until summer last year for me to be comfortable riding to work.  I still have a reliever inhaler, just in case, but I reached a plateau on the commute and it hadn't improved.

Back in December I started the NHS C25K, with a fairly specific idea - I need to push my cardio system to the point where the improvement caused by running makes the breathing during cycling better.  So far, it seems to be working - in the sense that I haven't actually died, and the 0500 shift last week and this (which is obligatory cycling commute due to no public transport at all) I found that I wasn't wheezing at the end of the ride.

I am stuck in Wk4, which is the first week with blocks of a whole 5 minutes of continuous running.  I think I'll be here for a while, as it's not so much the legs or knees (surprisingly since I'm 47) but the breathing.  Peak speed is crap, and it'll be a while before I'm running anything like the full 30 minutes - and it'll be after that that I extend it to the full distance - but it does seem to be working.

So I'm not a runner, but I am running, and it hasn't killed me yet.   :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Dibdib on 07 February, 2014, 09:10:58 am
I tried the first run in week 2 last night, and my shins were very insistent that I stop after the first couple of running segments.

Shin pain has been the reason I've struggled with running in the past, and I'm no expert but I'm guessing it's down to two things: not enough strength/flexibility in my ankles, and having 16st landing on each foot. The answer to the latter is simple, eat less pies, but any tips for the former?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 07 February, 2014, 09:47:09 am
Do you mean shin splints?   What shoes are you running in and on what type of surfaces?

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 07 February, 2014, 09:54:15 am
Shin splints are untrained ankles. Apparently, walking on your heels, lifting your big toes, and do your running on softer surfaces help. It's why the Zombies thing has heel lifts as part of the training.
Any advice with 'magic' in it sounds suss to me, but as this is a new-range-of-movement issue, this (http://gizmodo.com/5902699/banish-shin-splints-forever-with-one-magical-exercise) seems worth trying.

I however, am off to the physio tomorrow because my ostrich approach to knee pain which I have been pretending is entirely unconnected to running, is now so bad it's affecting my cycling. Barely being able to walk was fine, it hurting when I ride is not.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Dibdib on 07 February, 2014, 10:07:27 am
Do you mean shin splints?   What shoes are you running in and on what type of surfaces?

Yup. Proper running shoes on tarmac and slab pavements.

Fboab, thanks for the link and the advice - I'll give all your suggestions a go. Hope the phyio helps you sort your knee  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 07 February, 2014, 10:32:44 am
Ok.   When I ventured out on my first marathon quest in 1988 I suffered splints.   I went for advice and I was advised to start on grass and to get supportive shoes.   

This latter bit of advice was not so great because as you progress your running style will evolve.   You may well find that the shoes you currently have are contributory to the problem although ironically you may well need this type of shoe as you improve.   The biggest change in style is progressing from heel strike to running on the ball or toes.   I found that using a neutral shoe helped show wear patterns which then helped identify where extra support might be needed.   

Might be worth taking advice.   :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 07 February, 2014, 11:42:13 am
What constitutes "supportive" shoes will be different according to the individual's running style. The most sensible thing I've done running-wise was to go to a proper running shop and get a proper gait analysis to determine the right type of shoe for my style.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 07 February, 2014, 11:52:59 am
Yup.   
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 07 February, 2014, 12:08:05 pm
You can probably find clues as to whether you're a heel- or toe-striker, and whether you're neutral or pronating by looking at the pattern of wear on the soles of your current running shoes.

Good point about running style evolving. I was a bit of a heel striker at first but I've trained myself out of that habit.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 07 February, 2014, 12:09:20 pm
What constitutes "supportive" shoes will be different according to the individual's running style. The most sensible thing I've done running-wise was to go to a proper running shop and get a proper gait analysis to determine the right type of shoe for my style.

Yeah, but there's limited benefit in doing that as a very new runner, because your gait changes as you become more accomplished, no?
It's like telling someone who has just learnt to ride a 2 wheeled bike to get a racing bike fit. You need to, erm, walk before you can run...

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 07 February, 2014, 12:14:24 pm
Yeah, but there's limited benefit in doing that as a very new runner, because your gait changes as you become more accomplished, no?

I suppose that in an ideal world where money were no object, you'd buy a pair of beginner's running shoes to suit your begginer's style, then move on to a different pair a few months later. But of course, money is an object for most of us.

Although my current running shoes are excellent, they're far from being a top of the range model, and even then I could only afford them because they were in the end of season sale. Like good bike tyres, good running shoes are very pricey for a consumable that needs frequent replacing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 07 February, 2014, 12:14:54 pm
Yes to fboab's post.

I tend to recommend cheap 2nd-hand bikes to newbies for this reason (plus with bikes there are so many different purposes, but that's for another thread on one of YACF's other 27 boards... ).

The current 'popular' science on shoe fit is to give people neutral shoes with some (not lots) of cushioning. Then see how they get on, and look for extreme gaits (or injuries!) that might need correction/assistance.

This may all change in another 5-10 years.

Running on soft surfaces is definitely a win. Most elites never train on concrete (or even roads) - just tracks/grass/treadmills.

/Matt - admitted forefoot evangelist.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 07 February, 2014, 12:17:29 pm
/Matt - admitted forefoot evangelist.
/out injured for months ;)

I can't talk, I just can't see me doing another 2 runs this week for Jantastic, my knee is completely fecked. I can't straighten it without pain.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 08 February, 2014, 08:21:18 am
/Matt - admitted forefoot evangelist.
/out injured for months ;)

I can't talk, I just can't see me doing another 2 runs this week for Jantastic, my knee is completely fecked. I can't straighten it without pain.
I was worse back in my heel-striking days!

+1 to Oranj's points about shoe-choice. Low-drop shoes are in general much cheaper than all the fancy cushioned/support/motion-control stuff. Makes sense; the latter have loads of stuff  - even ignoring the R&D work they must cost more to make.

Anyway, the longer version of my comment:
I'm very much convinced by the FFS philosophy (mainly cos my ankle was just getting worse and worse in the years after I broke both tib+fibs). HOWEVER lots of experts reckon people should stick with whatever they do naturally. The science doesn't seem conclusive in either direction.
Hence my post didn't even suggest anyone switching to forefoot. OK? :P

(Rewind to the start of this thread if anyone wants a ton of heel vs forefoot debate.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 08 February, 2014, 08:28:04 am
Yeah, but there's limited benefit in doing that as a very new runner, because your gait changes as you become more accomplished, no?

I suppose that in an ideal world where money were no object, you'd buy a pair of beginner's running shoes to suit your begginer's style, then move on to a different pair a few months later. But of course, money is an object for most of us.

Although my current running shoes are excellent, they're far from being a top of the range model, and even then I could only afford them because they were in the end of season sale. Like good bike tyres, good running shoes are very pricey for a consumable that needs frequent replacing.
All true, but On Balance - and if I was "starting again" - I'd go for the cheap neutral shoes option. Yes, in some ways it's an extra cost, BUT as you say, they do need frequent replacing anyway. If a runner finds he's bought the "wrong" shoes, he'll probably get much of their natural life out of them anyway.
Plus running shoes can be used for many many things. For many other sports, and as "general" shoes. You won't get injured walking to the shops in mis-sold running shoes. [I am not a sports science professional, please don't sue me!]

So they shouldn't have any extra long-term cost.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 08 February, 2014, 08:35:06 am
I'm hardly qualified to judge/comment on gait when mine can only really be accurately described as 'lumbering'.
I'm really disproportionately pissed off this morning, I want to go do parkrun and can't/shouldn't.
(http://static2.sdith-images.com/media/catalog/product/cache/7/thumbnail/464x/85e4522595efc69f496374d01ef2bf13/i/m/image_16353_1_195315_1_38903_1_48_1_206193.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 08 February, 2014, 08:40:24 am
As you posted upthread; one of the benefits of running is that when you're injured you can still volunteer!

Anyway, sounds like a day off is The Right Thing. Do some strength stuff and go for a bike ride  :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 08 February, 2014, 09:29:47 am
Long before my schedule allows, I could not resist trying to run a little during my last two sessions.   It is clear that my ageing but vgc Asics 2070's are too firm under my arches.   I also got 'tired toe', aches in the toes due to them being overworked somewhat, or more accurately, not used for some years. 

Waking up those muscles, ligaments and tendons needs to be done gradually to avoid injury.*

I think that I might go and get some basic neutral shoes.

*  Says the man who suffered lateral collateral and anterior cruciate ligament damage in 1898 1989.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 08 February, 2014, 10:23:01 am
You are older than you look.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 08 February, 2014, 10:30:35 am
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!    ;D

1989...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 08 February, 2014, 10:57:41 am
No parkrun today for the second week in a row - haven't run at all for 11 days, and the only cycling I've done is the short ride to and from the station. Just can't shake this feckin' cold that's making me sound like a 40-a-day Marlboro man. >:(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 08 February, 2014, 12:59:54 pm
Diagnosis:
Irritation at the joint line, pelvic instability, excessive pronation, some ligament damage, lots of core weakness.
Prognosis:
Fair to good
Treatment:
Nothing that makes it hurt. No running, no walking, no deep squats. No core training, just really ("this is really yawn, but just go with it, if you have to tense and concentrate, you're working too hard") basic work on my pelvis. Hamstring stretches. Orthotics. If it hurts, stop. If it hurts afterwards, don't do it again. Pool running- ok if it doesn't hurt. (Though I'd have to ride to the pool, as walking hurts  :facepalm:)

Sigh.

I'm definitely out for the rest of February as far as Jantastic is concerned. Sorry.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Dibdib on 08 February, 2014, 01:39:28 pm
Bummer, fboab. Fingers crossed for a speedy recovery.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 08 February, 2014, 01:41:48 pm
Sorry to hear that, fboab. Don't let it get you down.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 08 February, 2014, 03:38:36 pm
On the plus  side, you managed to get some treatment on a Saturday. This is impossible with all the quacks I've known!
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on 09 February, 2014, 07:36:35 am
Put your feet up fboab, rest for as long as you can, then go for a gentle ride to York around Easter :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Henry on 09 February, 2014, 06:00:21 pm
Got fitted up for real running shoes at last, did a "first proper run" today. Gentle 1 hour with my brother. Hailstones stinging the face requiring use of safety squint, but then a gigantic tailwind once we turned our backs to it.

All in all really enjoyed it and will aim to keep it up. The investment made in the kit should motivate for a while. No long distance plans though, just a little cross-training to supplement the cycling  8)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 10 February, 2014, 10:09:48 pm
.... Do your feet spread with age?

... it was quite an eye-opener about how fast some of the quicker vets are.


1. Yes, I believe they do a bit.

2. Yes, I remember approaching 40 and thinking I might have a crack at 800 again, then noticing the British champ had run 1:49 that year and wouldn't be out of bracket before I was in. I also had the experience of being run a merry chase by a 65 year old before I turned 35, albeit in a less fit period of my life (the one that started  age 30 and hasn't really gone away)

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 12 February, 2014, 05:57:21 pm
For you Jantastics, this lady was mentioned on marathontalk. This is her response on FB:


Kim Love-Ottobre
Yes guys, I did run 108 miles as my long run during Jantastic. This is The Wild Oak Trail in Virginia, 4 loops, 27 miles long. 8000 feet of elevation per loop. In the 21 years of the event there have been 17 finishers. This is me on Loop 4.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Pippa on 16 February, 2014, 09:33:02 pm
Hello running peeps, I need some advice...

I've got to a stage where I can now run for 30 minutes 3 times a week. I've never got to this stage of running before having managed to wing it on a 5 km but then being very sore the next day, or trying walk/run like couch 2 5km and giving up before getting to the end. I have jantastic to thank for this.

Anyhow I now want to start getting "better" at running. By better, I mean faster over 5km and certainly endurance (I can run for 30mins but it certainly isn't easy, especially the last 5mins or so).

So I guess for speed it is fartleks/sprints and for making 30 mins/5km more comfortable, it's about doing longer distances? If that's the case, what should I be doing on my 3 runs per week? An interval/fartlek/sprints session, a normal 30 mins run and a longer run? Or should I just concentrate on one aspect. I'm confused.....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 16 February, 2014, 09:40:58 pm
On 3 runs I would suggest one long, steady run pushing to 45 mins by adding 5 mins per week.   One shorter, faster run, maybe just 15 or 20 mins but put a bit of extra in.   If you want to try fartlek then do it in this shorter session.   Keep one run to do your benchmark 30 mins /5k.   Over time the endurance from the longer run and the speed from the shorter should bring your 5k time down.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 17 February, 2014, 10:27:52 am
Pippa you don't say what your 'budget' is. Do you only have 3x30mins per week? Or do you want to run more, but you're increasing volume with caution to avoid injury?

I was advised that until you're doing 20 miles a week (for us plodders - more like 25 for average/fast runners) speed-work is purely 2ry (i.e. it won't help very much).

But this was aiming at distance running (10-13mile events. Or more). Of course if you are time-limited, have no intention of running that much, and just want to run 5km faster, then building in speed sessions makes more sense. And it's more interesting (although some people just like heading out of the door and doing a steady pace until they get back, no thought required). Bear in mind that even 5km specialists do 100 mile weeks, most of it at easy/medium effort.

So there you go - 2 approaches  :P (and PBear has run more marathons than me)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 17 February, 2014, 10:42:46 am
I was doing as PB suggests, one 'steady' 45 minutes, one 'fast' intervals 20-25 minutes inc warm up and one 'long' 60-90 minutes.

And I was getting faster, generally.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 17 February, 2014, 10:49:46 am
And I was getting faster, generally
... which is what happens to  every novice, for quiet a long time (until they plateau. or overtrain. or get injured... ) If you increase your total volume over time, then you improve more, and for longer before plateauing.

I'm not criticising your approach - it's very widely recommended, and I can see why it would work well - just saying that it's VERY difficult to compare the 'benefits' of various different training approaches!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 17 February, 2014, 10:55:15 am
I've improved my 5k time significantly just by doing parkrun - running with other people as targets/pacers is great motivation.

That said, I've hit a plateau and probably won't improve any further without more structured training.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 17 February, 2014, 10:57:23 am
And I was getting faster, generally
... which is what happens to  every novice, for quiet a long time (until they plateau. or overtrain. or get injured... ) If you increase your total volume over time, then you improve more, and for longer before plateauing.

I'm not criticising your approach - it's very widely recommended, and I can see why it would work well - just saying that it's VERY difficult to compare the 'benefits' of various different training approaches!
I think you're right, from a zero start everything is an improvement!

Any old 3 runs a week would probably have had the same effect.. but by giving each run a 'purpose' or a 'training goal' I was more able to a) keep motivated and b) be less bored.

I'd never be able to go out 3 times a week on a bike doing the same old same old loop, I'd get very bored and just stop doing it- though I know many people can/do- and I couldn't do the same running, either.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 17 February, 2014, 11:21:10 am
I was thinking about what Pippa actually said:

... I've got to a stage where I can now run for 30 minutes 3 times a week. ...

Anyhow I now want to start getting ... faster over 5km and certainly endurance (I can run for 30mins but it certainly isn't easy, especially the last 5mins or so).
...

The point of the shorter faster run is twofold.   Firstly, it add much-needed variety.   Secondly, the faster, shorter work helps you slowly but surely improve your core speed.   Taking longer, less-intense runs helps build endurance and core strength.   So, by having three different sessions in the you get variety (which helps relieve the mundane boredom of doing the same thing and is often the cause of people quitting), speed and strength.   

It takes time to increase speed but whilst pushing your longer run out by 5 minutes each week you suddenly find that you can run for an hour and that your 5k run is pretty routine.   
   
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Pippa on 17 February, 2014, 11:22:47 am
Pippa you don't say what your 'budget' is. Do you only have 3x30mins per week? Or do you want to run more, but you're increasing volume with caution to avoid injury?

If I'm honest, I don't really *want* to do any running at all. I don't really enjoy it all that much because it is bloody hard work. If cycling felt like running I would have thrown all my bikes away a LONG time ago. Well I wouldn't have them, but you know what I mean. BUT, I do think running is doing me some good, certainly in terms of CV fitness and weight management. And now that I'm at this self-defined pivotal point of being able to do 3x30 mins per week I don't want to just give up and waste all that effort. Jantastic has been great as I'm very compliant when it comes to following "rules" and not letting the team down. But Jantastic will also end at some point. I've started doing parkruns and I think that's something I could see myself still trying to do regularly.

So....I don't want to run a marathon. But equally when I do a 2 lap parkrun, I don't want to get lapped by someone finishing before I've even done my first lap - that's just demoralising (yeah OK so he did 5k in sub 16 mins I think, and I did it in 33, but I'd like to at least finish my first lap before he's finished his 2).

I can fit in 3 runs a week without feeling like I want to give up completely (I have given up many many times in the past, I don't really know why it's different this time, but it is). I can fit in a longer run at weekends and 2 shorter runs Mon-Fri - at the moment I can fit those in around a) going to the pub and b) going cycling so they don't seem to impinge on my "lifestyle". I think any more than that and I'd miss a couple and give it all up. Simply plodding up and down the river is starting to get a bit samey. I like the idea of different runs having a different aim to prevent boredom setting in.

I think I will try PB's and boab's approach and see where it gets me. If it stops me getting bored and keeps me heading out, that's a win. If I get faster as well, that's a win-win.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 17 February, 2014, 11:42:47 am
If it stops me getting bored and keeps me heading out, that's a win. If I get faster as well, that's a win-win.
They say the best training plan is the one you actually stick to!  :thumbsup:


I'm a massive fan of parkrun. My 10k was very satisfying, and I still dream of doing 'proper' long stuff, but for those of us still paddling in the shallow end distance-wise - and if you have one local - I think they're superb. I look forward to the Thames retreating from our local course! I definitely find that having a scheduled event makes me less likely to shirk than my own personal flexi-schedule (I'm procrastinating as I type this  ::-) )

Pippa, I sincerely hope you're not truly bothered by finishing toward the back end*.  But given that you're clearly still on an up-curve, I'm sure that 33min will continue to drop, even with just a parkrun+2midweek runs, whatever the length/intensity. It's the reward for sticking at it - I'm convinced that just doing SOME miles every week is more important than having the scientifically best training plan!


*(parkrun is the first sporting event I've ever come close to the midfield in - I expect to be soundly thrashed whenever I play sports, and am often last in time-trials (and audaxes). This is a strong indicator of how inclusive it is, and how many beginners take part. Someone has to be last, and every time I am, I save someone else from the honour.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 17 February, 2014, 11:48:09 am

But equally when I do a 2 lap parkrun, I don't want to get lapped by someone finishing before I've even done my first lap - that's just demoralising (yeah OK so he did 5k in sub 16 mins I think, and I did it in 33, but I'd like to at least finish my first lap before he's finished his 2).

The good news is you don't have to improve by much to achieve that goal.

And 16mins is exceptionally fast. Competitive club runner standard. So don't allow that to demoralise you, just accept it for what it is. And bear in mind how much training he probably does to be able to achieve that time. (He's still several minutes behind world record pace - imagine how demoralised he is by that!)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Pippa on 17 February, 2014, 11:59:40 am
Pippa, I sincerely hope you're not truly bothered by finishing toward the back end*. 

I don't go home and cry about, no  ;D

Frankly, if I can get to running 5k in less than 30 mins, I will feel like a running goddess. That's enough for me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 17 February, 2014, 12:10:04 pm
But equally when I do a 2 lap parkrun, I don't want to get lapped by someone finishing before I've even done my first lap - that's just demoralising (yeah OK so he did 5k in sub 16 mins I think, and I did it in 33, but I'd like to at least finish my first lap before he's finished his 2).
I only got lapped the first time. 'Not being lapped' is really quite a strong motivator... But our fast guys are slower than yours, I think. I only need a 16 minute first lap, not a 15 minute one. That minute is quite a lot!

Frankly, if I can get to running 5k in less than 30 mins, I will feel like a running goddess. 
Me too.
That, and I want to run The Great Ingram Fell Race (http://www.northumberlandfellrunners.co.uk/html/racereports/2007/IngramShow07.html) not embarrassingly badly/slowly. (I might even get the cup- no one from Ingram has run it for years.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 17 February, 2014, 04:18:10 pm
First time on the treadmill where I didn't feel completely horrible at the end. It's a bit cooler in the work gym, plus I've lost a few kg which lessens the burden.

Still need a 3kg more or so to go before it becomes a less hideous prospect and I hit my magic target for doing a local Parkrun.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 19 February, 2014, 11:57:10 am
Shorter faster run worked for me today.  I find running traning plans difficult as I only do one run a week (maximum) (a) because of time commitments and (b) to avoid new injuries and manage an existing one. 
(click to show/hide)
But having progressively worked up distances - 14, 16, 19, 21 miles in preparation for a marathon, dropped back down to a 12.3 mile route and started at a much less conservative pace.  Result was 30 seconds faster than the previous time over the same route.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 19 February, 2014, 01:27:03 pm
Didn't much feel like running this morning but I was mindful of today being the best opportunity to get my long run in for the week - I'd committed to 20km for this week on Jantastic.

So I JFDI. And jolly good fun it was too. :thumbsup:

A smidge under 22km round the woods, quite boggy and slippery in places, which slowed me down a bit but I'm happy with 2:14 overall.

Even better: I got home to discover my wife had made churros for breakfast. Epic win, as the kids say.

I found out yesterday that this year's Beauty & The Beast marathon (hilly trails course) is on 13th September. Plenty of time to prepare for that. However, it's only six days after the Thanet marathon, which I've also got in my diary. Crikey. Oh well, at least Thanet is a nice flat(ish) road course.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: swiss hat on 24 February, 2014, 05:58:34 pm
I'll be playing a joker for this week on Jantastic. Not due to injury or illness but to taper for the Steyning Stinger offroad marathon on Sunday 2nd. Looking forward to the run, hopefully the weather will be kind to get the best of the views from the Downs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 25 February, 2014, 09:21:04 am
I'll be playing a joker for this week on Jantastic. Not due to injury or illness but to taper for the Steyning Stinger offroad marathon on Sunday 2nd. Looking forward to the run, hopefully the weather will be kind to get the best of the views from the Downs.

Good Luck Swiss Hat

I had a look at this one but decided to do the Sussex Coast on 22nd instead.  Hope there isn't too much groundwater flooding in between the hills.  If the South Downs are anything like the Hampshire Downs you might need a kayak in places.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 27 February, 2014, 02:20:43 pm
I don't have a joker left for Feb so I might have to cheat!

For various reasons, mostly out of my control, I'll probably get a maximum of two runs in this week. However, I'm doing a 200 audax at the weekend, and I've done a couple of long-ish bike commutes this week as well, so I think I'll have fulfilled my "run" quota, even if not with actual running.

Either that or I'll just have to write off Jantastic.

Anyway, I've set my March Jantastic target, which is to run the new Canterbury parkrun inside 22 minutes. I did the test run last weekend, which took 22.36, so I have a benchmark to aim at. It's a lumpier course than my usual Whitstable parkrun - there are four climbs with a total of 60m ascent, so not the toughest but tough enough... The official start date is 15th March, which luckily happens to be the only weekend in March I'm not audaxing, so I'm going to make a real go of hitting that target even if I don't worry too much about the rest of my Jantastic goals.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 27 February, 2014, 03:16:06 pm
Either that or I'll just have to write off Jantastic.
Welcome to my world.

I'm back at the physio tonight and have been religiously doing this (http://youtu.be/XAmBijJeFrM) 50 times a day. I don't think he's gonna say 'yes' to running tho'. Not for a while yet, anyway.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 27 February, 2014, 05:21:05 pm
Either that or I'll just have to write off Jantastic.
Welcome to my world.

Jantastic doesn't account for real life though, does it?

In the first week of January, I did all the runs I'd committed to, but because I didn't get round to logging them before the deadline, it doesn't think I did them. And the joker system is flawed too - I was able to play jokers on two consecutive illness-stricken weeks because they were the end of one month and the beginning of the next, but if they'd been in the middle of the month, I'd have been scuppered. So even if you have a good excuse like illness or injury, you're made to feel like a failure. Which is silly and counter-productive, since it's supposed to be all about motivating you.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 01 March, 2014, 12:35:47 pm
Sod. I did a 25 km run this morning, which included the local ParkRun (PB :smug:). When I logged the distance on Jantastic I realised my target was 26 km for this week :facepalm:. I'm a numpty.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: swiss hat on 03 March, 2014, 05:33:17 pm
The Steyning Stinger marathon was 'triffic  :thumbsup:  I was very impressed with the route, organisation and friendliness of the whole event. The run features the South Downs north of Worthing and is a mix of paths, tracks & grassland. The first 3-4 miles along foot of the downs were particularly muddy yesterday reminding me of the Grizzly 20 in Devon but conditions improved during the first of the four main ascents (or stings) of the downs. From there we had great views inland and along the coast as the route headed to Chanctobury Ring, Cissbury Hill and Round Hill for the remaining stings each of 3-500 ft. The gradients were not super steep so all runable if you measured your effort. After that it was back to Steyning via a long descent for a finish along muddy tracks followed by a complementary cooked breakfast. Definitely recommended if long trail runs are your thing.

For March on Jantastic I'll be ticking over with 3 runs/week and will try some shorter faster running with a time for 5k. Looking forward to getting back on my bike for some audaxing now. Is Spring on the way?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 04 March, 2014, 10:14:32 am
When's the best time for a last long run before a marathon.  Have probably got the opportunity to do 20+ miles tomorrow morning but is that too close to the Sussex Coast Marathon 17 days later??
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: swiss hat on 04 March, 2014, 05:20:21 pm
When's the best time for a last long run before a marathon.  Have probably got the opportunity to do 20+ miles tomorrow morning but is that too close to the Sussex Coast Marathon 17 days later??

I reckon you'll be fine for ~20 miles in long, slow distance mode if that's what you've run previously. Then maybe 10-13 miles a week before the event at same pace. Just 1 or 2 short runs in the final week to keep the legs going. That's what works for me. Good luck with the run!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Dibdib on 04 March, 2014, 07:53:02 pm
After a little break, C25K Week 3 Day 1 done.

I was a bit apprehensive, because I hadn't ran for a fortnight and was "stepping up" a level in the C25K plan, but it actually went really well. My shins didn't hurt and barely stiffened up, I was comfortable at a much faster speed than before, and my lungs/weight felt like the limiting factor rather than my shins.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 04 March, 2014, 11:00:57 pm
When's the best time for a last long run before a marathon.  Have probably got the opportunity to do 20+ miles tomorrow morning but is that too close to the Sussex Coast Marathon 17 days later??

I reckon you'll be fine for ~20 miles in long, slow distance mode if that's what you've run previously. Then maybe 10-13 miles a week before the event at same pace. Just 1 or 2 short runs in the final week to keep the legs going. That's what works for me. Good luck with the run!

TX - will take the chance
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 05 March, 2014, 11:44:19 am
23 miles today.  Enlivened by meeting an ultra-marathoner out training who gave me some useful tips.  It was one of those very rare occasions that two people going about the same pace actually meet up.

Fortunately my legs didn't start to tie up until our ways had parted.  Pace was good so have probably done as much as I can do for the Sussex Coast Marathon on 17th.   :smug:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 05 March, 2014, 11:49:02 am
Nice one, CET. Good luck with the Sussex Coast. Looks like a belter of a route.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 05 March, 2014, 05:22:48 pm
After a little break, C25K Week 3 Day 1 done.

I was a bit apprehensive, because I hadn't ran for a fortnight and was "stepping up" a level in the C25K plan, but it actually went really well. My shins didn't hurt and barely stiffened up, I was comfortable at a much faster speed than before, and my lungs/weight felt like the limiting factor rather than my shins.

Keep it going Dibdib.

I managed a 2K continuous run this morning and ran in total about 5k of the 7.6k loop of Draycote Water.   I have a target to be able to run the entire loop by the end of March.   I am extremely pleased.    :thumbsup:

I started on 29th January so I am five weeks in to my C2M.    :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 05 March, 2014, 05:33:27 pm
23 miles today.
<...>
Pace was good so have probably done as much as I can do for the Sussex Coast Marathon on 17th.   :smug:
Should I point out that your marathon is a lot less than 17 days after your 20+miler? No probably not ....

Good luck  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 05 March, 2014, 08:05:48 pm
New shoes!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 06 March, 2014, 06:48:43 pm
Tried using the Intervals option on Endomondo at lunchtime, specifically the 'pyramid' (where the fast intervals get longer towards the middle of the programme then shorter again after half way). Hell's teeth, but I'm shattered! Didn't feel too bad immediately afterwards, but as the afternoon wore on. my legs started to tell me they'd been doing unaccustomed work and weren't happy coming down stairs, and now I'm generally sleepy.
Will repeat the exercise though. Apart from anything else, a workout which was 50 minutes, desk to desk, will be useful on occasion.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 08 March, 2014, 12:12:33 pm
Some limited Progress here, but if I drew a graph it would probably imitate Boab's "lumbering gait"  :-\

Summary: Started running for a month or so without notable provocation of the PF. Then strained my calf* after about 8mins gentle jog  ::-) (about 10 days ago)

This morning was first semi-succesful run since then - 24mins jog plus a lot of walking. About the only good news is that my nearest green space is now dry enough to run on. All the interesting trails further afield are underwater or still look pretty boggy, which I really can't be arsed with. Local parkrun is still flooded - I may be really lucky, and get back to 'fast 5km' level at the same time as the waters recede #optimism.

(Further issues: in the last 5metres this morning I had a sharp knee pain. I can still feel it later, but I did a steady 30 miles on the bike which didn't provoke it. Not happy, but I'll ride thru it for now.
2 weeks ago, at the start of a 20min run, I just couldn't get going due to a stabbing pain on the top of my left foot. Never had that one before! It somehow vanished with some judicious walking. Sigh.)



Even after 20mins my pampered feet are sore, I can almost feel at least 1 blister coming on. 6 months of no running == soft baby skin. Ow!


(*Oh, I know, classic cyclist-turned-runner problem. But I did about a million calf raises in the months when I wasn't running, so either I'm cursed, or strength training has no useful effect on running, despite the hype.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 08 March, 2014, 01:30:40 pm
I did my Jantastic long run today (30 km), which incorporated the local ParkRun and I was one second off my Jantastic target time for the ParkRun. I think that will do!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Pippa on 08 March, 2014, 01:48:14 pm
My running is starting to feel more and more comfortable now, in the sense that I don't want to a) be sick, and b) it is less painful. I managed 6km earlier this week, my longest non-stop run so far. My times have been getting progressively quicker. I went to parkrun today and it was feeling good. I wondered if I might hit the elusive <30min 5km. I thought I might but then got the mother of all stitches and had to stop for a while. Managed a parkrun PB of 30.59, so only 1 min away from my goal time. I reckon without the stitch I would have been closer to 30 than 31 mins. 4 weeks ago my parkrun time was 33:15 and it has come down with each attempt. Hopefully the 29:59 is achievable this month, although what with going on hol next weekend, I will be missing the next 2 :(

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 08 March, 2014, 07:17:57 pm
I was official 21 minute pacer at parkrun today. Thought I would struggle to make the time but I smashed it. In fact, I had to slow down towards the end because I was too far ahead of pace! Finished on 20.43. Can't believe it felt so comfortable!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on 10 March, 2014, 07:33:49 am
I'm still way off my park run goal of 30mins, at 31.41.  But I have done a sub 30 in good conditions and on a flat route earlier this year.  So I'm going to stick to that goal, it's a good motivator.

My running is beginning to feel more like running than jogging. 

Well done everybody, I do find it inspiring to read everybody's notes and thoughts.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 14 March, 2014, 08:44:33 am
Last main training run before the Sussex Coast Marathon today.  20km brisk.  Went well.  So in theory am prepared for the big day.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 14 March, 2014, 07:47:31 pm
20km brisk.  Went well.

Snap. Would have been easier without the rucsac with work clothes and marking, but hey ho.

Tho I have to ask how 20 brisk kilometres counts as tapering?!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 14 March, 2014, 08:34:37 pm
Because last week was 37km hilly.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 15 March, 2014, 03:57:29 pm
Did my "predicted time" for Jantastic today at the first official Canterbury parkrun. Having clocked 22.39 on the test run a couple of weeks ago, I thought 22 would be a good target. Smashed it. Came home in 21.21. Very pleased with that considering it's a much tougher course than my usual Whitstable parkrun.

Although the winner finished in a mind-boggling 15.12.  :o
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 16 March, 2014, 04:11:46 pm
Good work citoyen. No Park Run for me this week because I rode the Shaftesbury 110, and next weekend I'll be marshalling. However, did about 23 mile / 37 km today in the morning sunshine in 2¾ hrs :thumbsup:. The result of which was a 3 kg drop in body mass. Oops.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 16 March, 2014, 05:47:48 pm
i am impressed with everyone's efforts here, keep up good work!! my last run was on the 11th of january, haven't been running since i was knocked off the bike (while cycling to a parkrun!). i'm really missing these saturday morning runs, great fun they are. planning to get back into running in late summer/autumn.
in the meantime i'll carry on reading of your achievements here and am wishing you all the best in your challenges!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 17 March, 2014, 09:11:23 am
I did the timing at BSE parkrun.
Although the other volunteers were lovely, and welcoming, I found it a really depressing experience. I feel like I'll never be able to run it again. Even standing round with a stop watch (intermittently calling 'well done' to those who looked like they'd appreciate it) hurt my knee. I was worried the 'boss' would make me walk round the course and pick up markers, I'm not sure I could have managed it.

Anyway, interesting fact from the other side of the finish tape (Pippa & Els take note) the first 4 ladies to finish were all wearing makeup- lippy, mascara, eyeliner, the works. Well, maybe not a full face, but obvious make up. The other 34 ladies were not. Now, correlation does not equal causation, but it's certainly thought provoking. None of the men were, maybe we'd have had a sub 18 minute finisher if they had?
The course has been a mud fest since about October, and this week dried out a lot, so as well as the undoubted pleasure of Nowton Park in full daffodil glory, there were a lot of PBs achieved.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 17 March, 2014, 05:33:54 pm
 ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 17 March, 2014, 06:24:42 pm
Parkrun looks interesting but I'd need to get over to Coventry or Northampton for it.   I might consider registering and going once a month to monitor my progress.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 23 March, 2014, 11:42:34 am
This morning I did my first half marathon; the Richmond 13.1. The most stressful part was getting to the start as SouthWest Trains cancelled the service from Waterloo. Thanks guys. However, a train to Kew Bridge & then a taxi saved the day by 20 mins. The race went well, despite almost being beaten by a guy dressed as a banana. I'm waiting for official timings, but somewhere around 1:24. The most painful part was the sports massage straight after the run from one of the St. Mary's students!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 23 March, 2014, 02:49:35 pm
This morning I did my first half marathon; the Richmond 13.1. The most stressful part was getting to the start as SouthWest Trains cancelled the service from Waterloo. Thanks guys. However, a train to Kew Bridge & then a taxi saved the day by 20 mins. The race went well, despite almost being beaten by a guy dressed as a banana. I'm waiting for official timings, but somewhere around 1:24. The most painful part was the sports massage straight after the run from one of the St. Mary's students!

That's a very respectable time.  Chapeau.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 23 March, 2014, 02:53:54 pm
All the training paid off.  11th place in the Sussex Coast Marathon  :smug:.  Sadly there were a couple of other fit 45+ year olds so didn't get the age group prize, despite posting a time that would have won it the last two years.  Have decided will continue to do trail running - much more fun that plodding around towns and parks - and running on slippery grass in the middle of a hailstorm reminds me of all those magic Audax moments  ;D.

Full account is here

http://crazyenglishtriathlete.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/a-long-distance-cyclist-turns-to-running/ (http://crazyenglishtriathlete.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/a-long-distance-cyclist-turns-to-running/)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: swiss hat on 23 March, 2014, 06:39:59 pm
Good run CET. That's quite an achievement on only 1 run a week. The near even splits showed that it worked for you.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 23 March, 2014, 07:09:08 pm
Impressive stuff, guys.

I suspect CET would be a fair bit faster on 3 runs a week, but where's the need if you're enjoying it, and can finish the events you enjoy?  :thumbsup:

Adamski: that 1:24 puts you right in the zone for a sub-3h 'proper' run. go-on go-on go-on go-on ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 23 March, 2014, 10:50:38 pm
Respect due, adamski & CET. Very impressed.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 24 March, 2014, 06:17:38 am
I'm waiting for official timings, but somewhere around 1:24.

Results are out - 14th from 3,000 runner :o with 1:23:28.


http://crazyenglishtriathlete.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/a-long-distance-cyclist-turns-to-running/ (http://crazyenglishtriathlete.wordpress.com/2014/03/23/a-long-distance-cyclist-turns-to-running/)

Impressive :thumbsup:.



Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 27 March, 2014, 12:09:47 pm
Respect due, adamski & CET. Very impressed.

very impressive indeed. great to see someone putting in effort and getting results!

and for a bit of inspiration:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/get-inspired/26580088 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/get-inspired/26580088)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: redshift on 30 March, 2014, 02:37:55 pm
What with work getting in the way, I've been stuck in week 3 of C25K for ages, and only able to stagger round once a week.  However, today I managed the first week 4 run without dropping off to a walk on either of the 5 minute sections.  I still needed the inhaler when I got home though, but I think I'm slowly beating this bloody asthma - or at least training my system such that it's less bothersome, which is why I started this in the first place.

So, I'm still not a runner, but I am still running…   ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 02 April, 2014, 08:52:04 am
First run post the Sussex Coast Marathon.  Decided to venture off-road as it had been so dry and the first path was a legacy of the January storms - requiring some advanced scrambling to get past fallen trees and navigate still-swampy ground.  However, soon got better conditions.  Saw several groups of deer including a muntjac, and hammered along the tarmac stretch of Newnham Lane.  The minority of nutters in cars are just as inconsiderate of runners as they are of cyclists.  Just over 9 miles.  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: swiss hat on 02 April, 2014, 05:19:56 pm
Just over 9 miles.  ;D

You should be in fine fettle for the Hard Boiled. I always find getting back in to audaxing after winter running is a lot easier that the reverse in Autumn.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on 03 April, 2014, 11:12:14 am
Jantastic update:

It's over and YACF are the 19th of 303 "small team" (6-10 runners) with a score of 94.8% based on our top-three-quarters of runners in the team, which seems pretty good. Our top scorers were Adamski and SwissHat with 99.9% and 99.6%. For some reason jokers aren't showing up on our team stats although I know we played a few between us. I tailed off a bit towards the end of March which dragged the score down a bit, but Jantastic certainly provided good motivation to get out the door in the wet January we had. http://www.jantastic.me/runners-teams/ (http://www.jantastic.me/runners-teams/)
Nice summary, thanks Oranj.
I tailed off also, mainly because of The Dean 300.  For March it would have been better to set my target to 2/week instead of 3.  Otherwise found Jantastic a good motivator also.  Continuity will come from parkrun on Saturdays.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Dibdib on 03 April, 2014, 01:06:03 pm
Well done all yacf jantastic types :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 04 April, 2014, 06:24:24 am
Well done, Jantasticos.

I've not done much running over the last couple of weeks for one reason or another, and I've not logged what I've done on Jantastic, but that's because I've been preoccupied with other things. I'm slightly surprised at how motivational it has actually been. I may even do it again next year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 05 April, 2014, 11:26:28 am
A fantastic ParkRun this morning, partly because I hadn't done a 10 km run beforehand, resulted in a sub 18 minute PB. Happy happy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Swarm_Catcher on 05 April, 2014, 11:39:06 am
A fantastic ParkRun this morning, partly because I hadn't done a 10 km run beforehand, resulted in a sub 18 minute PB. Happy happy.
Impressive!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 13 April, 2014, 07:02:29 am
############# GO ADAMSKI!!! ###############
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 13 April, 2014, 01:26:00 pm
############# GO ADAMSKI!!! ###############

HE'S DONE IT, HE'S DONE IT!!! (http://results-2014.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/2014/?content=detail&fpid=search&pid=search&idp=9999990F5ECC83000014308E&lang=EN_CAP&event=MAS) :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Top effort!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 13 April, 2014, 02:53:05 pm
:) :) Now in the pub.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 13 April, 2014, 04:44:05 pm
Photo from Mile 6:

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7320/13824229374_f5b136eac8.jpg)

Could someone photoshop me my missing tooth into the correct place? (Red t-shirt, black shorts, white cap & no front tooth!) The original image is here. (https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7320/13824229374_d058f584d0_o.jpg) Ta.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: woollypigs on 13 April, 2014, 04:52:58 pm
Well done that chap, of all the people in that photo you are the only one smiling.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 13 April, 2014, 04:58:18 pm
Well done that chap, of all the people in that photo you are the only one smiling.
His pacing* looks just tooooo good. 2h59min something ... I reckon he's a 2h40 runner really   ;D


*see Zig's link
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 14 April, 2014, 09:50:33 am
Great run, adamski! That's a seriously impressive time. Have you gone under three hours before?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 14 April, 2014, 10:04:03 am
Have you gone under three hours before?

That was my first marathon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 14 April, 2014, 10:10:29 am
Amazing.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 14 April, 2014, 01:03:06 pm
Great stuff!

Thanks.  3:16:00 still a damn good time too :thumbsup:.

Very even splits suggests more to come  :thumbsup:

Time will tell....


Oranj - could you tell me me about the GFA entries? This year I had a general entry place, but if I decide to run in 2015 I could get a GFA place (unless London changes the time limits). Is it guaranteed entry if you go via GFA and do you have to apply on Tues. 22nd April as per the general ballot? (I realise you can only base your answers on experience from this year & therefore things may change.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 14 April, 2014, 04:04:23 pm
Oranj, do you know if they adjust GFA times for course difficulty?

I'm looking to do a local marathon in September* and aiming for 3.15, which would be a GFA time for my age group, and I reckon I can do it if I put in a lot of serious, focused hard work in training. However, it's a fairly undulating course...

*obviously too late for qualification for 2015, but I'm thinking ahead to 2016. My priority for 2015 is also PBP.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 14 April, 2014, 04:13:44 pm
Thanks Oranj. Very useful information and far clearer than anything else I've read about GFA entries. I too will need to consider PBP against London 2015.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Pippa on 14 April, 2014, 04:18:58 pm
(There is also a separate "Championship start (http://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/marathon-centre/enter-virgin-london-marathon/championship-entries/)" entry, but you have to be sub 2:45 (or 1:15 half) for that. Entry is even later in the year/beginning of the next)

Heh - I suspect that thought of a sub 1:15 half is now playing through αdαmsκι's mind.....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 14 April, 2014, 04:32:48 pm
Oh well, I guess I'll just have to make sure I run that bit faster!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 16 April, 2014, 06:23:23 am
:) :) Now in the pub.

Well deserved.  Chapeau.  Top Stuff.  Etc

Well impressed.   :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 19 April, 2014, 10:17:04 am
My first Park Run this morning  :thumbsup:
Seeing there's one inn our village I knew I'd run out of excuses eventually.
The official times aren't up yet, but I did achieve a personal goal. Ever since I started running, I've been aiming to get under half an hour for 5km. According to Endomondo my 5km time was 29'47"  :smug:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 19 April, 2014, 10:25:44 am
Chapeau Steve!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 21 April, 2014, 11:10:12 pm
This is a bit late for Adam, but it's worth a listen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN8JK6XsFxU
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 23 April, 2014, 05:54:46 pm
Arse. Screwed up my lower back, tho I've no idea what I've done. I managed to run home last night, but was in too much pain this evening. Glad I wasn't like this two weeks ago. (My 300 km audax on Saturday seems likely to be a DNS :( .)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 14 May, 2014, 11:13:21 pm
Any recommendations for running forums?
Ideally something similar to here (not that it would be possible to replicate YACF)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 16 May, 2014, 05:51:52 pm
For even more fells chatter - and a lot less "whose doing London?" and/or "What Gel?" - I really like this place:

forum.fellrunner.org.uk

[ It's the only place I've found much Bob Graham info - a topic which affects my life in the same way that tales of Everest do :P ]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 16 May, 2014, 10:32:46 pm
For even more fells chatter - and a lot less "whose doing London?" and/or "What Gel?" - I really like this place:

forum.fellrunner.org.uk

[ It's the only place I've found much Bob Graham info - a topic which affects my life in the same way that tales of Everest do :P ]

Matt, I've a sense of inevitability about doing a Bob Graham one of these days. I'm older than he was now, but if you're up for it we could target next summer? And other welcome to join in of course.

Still trying to work out how to fit cycling and running together tbh, but glad to be doing stuff again after last year's broken collarbone.

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 17 May, 2014, 12:15:42 am
I recently got given Bob Graham map. But it is PBP next year which I would like to ride. Perhaps 2016 for Bob Graham.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 17 May, 2014, 06:26:06 am
[ It's the only place I've found much Bob Graham info - a topic which affects my life in the same way that tales of Everest do :P ]
Ooops, I guess this was more ambiguous than I intended. I should clarify:

I am just as likely to complete a BGR as I am to summit Everest*. But I hugely enjoy reading about the exploits of others that attempt these things :) Feet In the Clouds is a good inspirational read, with a lot of BGR content.

I can well believe it's within Adam's abilities. A toughie, nevertheless. Good luck both of you!


*Which in turn is as likely as riding a 20min 10miler. Or marrying Natalie Portman. etc ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 17 May, 2014, 02:45:16 pm
Bob Graham map: http://www.harveymaps.co.uk/acatalog/Bob-Graham-Round-YHFRBG.html  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 17 May, 2014, 03:06:14 pm
So, having done last year's event as a team of three and felt like it wasn't quite enough of a challenge, I've entered this year's Beauty & The Beast, this time doing the full marathon as a solo runner...

http://hellyhansenbeautyandthebeast.co.uk/

It won't be my first marathon though. Oh no. My first marathon will be Thanet, which takes place 6 days earlier.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 18 May, 2014, 06:53:54 am
Perhaps a plan for an 'interim Bob Graham could coalesce over the next few months.

I'll give it some thought. 2015 or 2016 if people are doing PBP?

There will be no entry fee, although a price will need to be paid in the months leading up. The last big Lakeland day I did was Boot to Bassenthwaite taking in the 3,000s, and that was a few years ago now.

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 18 May, 2014, 07:49:51 am

Still trying to work out how to fit cycling and running together tbh, but glad to be doing stuff again after last year's broken collarbone.

I've split 2014 into a cycling half and a running half - after next weekend's 600, I'm switching focus to marathon training (although I've still got WCW in August as an interlude).

Next year will be all about PBP, but I could be interested in joining in a BGR in 2016. Sounds like fun.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 11 June, 2014, 10:40:14 pm
Not sure about a BGR.  However, did my first run for a couple of months today with the general intention of the Dorset Coast Ultramarathon (33 miles) in December.  9.2 miles 66 minutes along the Leeds and Liverpool canal from Leeds in the general direction of Liverpool and back.  The dodgy groin is tight as usual but otherwise feel fine.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 13 June, 2014, 06:35:02 pm
Arse. Screwed up my lower back, tho I've no idea what I've done. I managed to run home last night, but was in too much pain this evening

Whoop - I managed to walk / run home yesterday and today, which have been my first runs since I screwed up my back in April. And now it's time to sort out my Good4Age entry for London 2015.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 13 June, 2014, 09:34:56 pm
Heads up: London Good-for-age entry is open http://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/marathon-centre/enter-virgin-london-marathon/good-for-age-entries/ (http://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/marathon-centre/enter-virgin-london-marathon/good-for-age-entries/).

Done :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 19 June, 2014, 09:19:50 pm
Staying at Wokefield Park tonight and last night, so snook out for a 9 mile run aroud the local commons and through the woods. Slow and tired, but happy to be out. Water, mud, nettles and blood - what could be better!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 01 July, 2014, 06:46:08 am
I'm in and paid up for VLM 2015 too :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 06 July, 2014, 07:49:24 pm
Commitment made.  Dorset Coast Ultramarathon - 33 miles 6100ft climbing (52k, 1900m in proper units) - 6th December.  Aim to win the over 50 prize as am now eligible.

Did 11 miles half off road today, somewhat stiff from 5 big days on the bike in the Alps, will now start working up the distance and use the Farnham Pilgrim or Clarendon Marathons as a stepping stone.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 04 August, 2014, 10:14:01 pm
Commitment made.  Dorset Coast Ultramarathon - 33 miles 6100ft climbing (52k, 1900m in proper units) - 6th December.  Aim to win the over 50 prize as am now eligible.

Did 11 miles half off road today, somewhat stiff from 5 big days on the bike in the Alps, will now start working up the distance and use the Farnham Pilgrim or Clarendon Marathons as a stepping stone.

Checked the Endurancelife website today.  They've lengthened the Ultra to 45 miles and 8300 feet of climbing.  That puts a new dimension on things.  AUK Reunion off the cards and Beachy Head Marathon on.  Will need some serious running training for this one.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 05 August, 2014, 12:45:31 pm
Step 1 of the plan to madness went well.  12.3 mile cross-country run through misty woods and farmland.  Two hares and a deer and countless rabbits.  Pace was good but had to remember that this is not much more than quarter distance of the actual event.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 16 August, 2014, 08:35:52 am
Training for the Dorset Coast Ultra continues to plan.  17.2 miles cross country today (well a little over half is off-road).  Some areas quite soggy after recent rain - the water tables are still high after the winter monsoon.  Just a bit slower than the same route last year but I did have a 100 mile commute in my legs from yesterday.  Also rewarded by seeing two tawny owls, a couple of deer, a plague of rabbits, a pregnant fox, and a buzzard.  Have entered the Beachy Head Marathon as my preparation race but hope to have got the training distance up to about 30 miles before that.  Am going to have to start some route planning.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 22 August, 2014, 11:49:22 am
19.5 miles from the Holiday Inn Express in Taunton on Wednesday evening.  Fantastic trail section in the Blackdown Hills.  Got back for a Costcutter dinner just as the last of the light was fading.  Running is becoming more like Audax every trip. 

Dodgy groin is still complaining so will give it a week's rest before the next run.  Probably 22 miles in the South Downs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 27 August, 2014, 08:40:42 pm
Training for the Dorset Coast Ultra continues on track.  23.2 miles from home today with about 16 miles off road.  Found some great cobbled tracks on the Earl of Portsmouth's estate, which should keep in good condition even when it gets wetter in the winter.  Will have an easier run next week to break in the new trail shoes.  The old Adidas runners are starting to show their age.  Apparently 500 miles is a good distance for a pair of running shoes - and these have done 410.  (that also means that running is more expensive than cycling on a per mile basis)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 03 September, 2014, 06:50:40 pm
New shoes today.  14.5 miles in 4.5 laps of Puttenham Common and feet were in good nick.  Running must be more expensive per mile than cycling.  £120 for a pair of shoes that probably won't see out 500 miles - that's 25p a mile.  Running costs for my bike are about 10p a mile.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 03 September, 2014, 07:05:38 pm
Great blog CET - keep it up!!!!     :P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 09 September, 2014, 12:45:15 pm
One problem with Trail Running is that Google Maps doesn't compute the distance along tracks and footpaths.  It's the first marathon distance training run on the plan for the weekend and the last thing I want to do is go out and find that the distance is only 23, or perhaps worse still 32.  So I sat down at breakfast this morning with an Ordnance Survey map, pen and paper, carefully marking out the distance, and checking alternatives. 

The route that I'd first puzzled out works perfectly at 27 miles.  It will be almost entirely off road except the last two miles as the footpath that covers that section looks like it will be a random stubble covered field.  Should be able to drop CET Junior at school at 8.10 on Saturday and get to the Four Points Inn (Aldworth) car park by 8.30am to start running.  So anyone who wants to join me for a restorative pint of recovery drink at 1pm (when I've got back and stretched) is welcome.  I will be the tall bloke in running kit that can't walk properly.

Anyone who can run 27 miles in 4 hours off road is welcome to join me in the running bit too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 11 September, 2014, 09:56:14 pm
One problem with Trail Running is that Google Maps doesn't compute the distance along tracks and footpaths.  It's the first marathon distance training run on the plan for the weekend and the last thing I want to do is go out and find that the distance is only 23, or perhaps worse still 32.  So I sat down at breakfast this morning with an Ordnance Survey map, pen and paper, carefully marking out the distance, and checking alternatives. 

The route that I'd first puzzled out works perfectly at 27 miles.  It will be almost entirely off road except the last two miles as the footpath that covers that section looks like it will be a random stubble covered field.  Should be able to drop CET Junior at school at 8.10 on Saturday and get to the Four Points Inn (Aldworth) car park by 8.30am to start running.  So anyone who wants to join me for a restorative pint of recovery drink at 1pm (when I've got back and stretched) is welcome.  I will be the tall bloke in running kit that can't walk properly.

Anyone who can run 27 miles in 4 hours off road is welcome to join me in the running bit too.

The problem with training plans and family are that family plans change and consequently so do training plans.  Running is now tomorrow morning from home and Saturday I will be cycling from Pangbourne. 

Yours, desperately trying to work out 27 mile run from home. :demon:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 12 September, 2014, 11:14:20 am
I gave up route planning last night and watched highlights of the Vuelta instead.  Want to know how much pain those guys go through when they are racing up 7% slopes at the end of a three week tour.  Go running.  You'll never be able to ride hard enough to simulate that pain riding a bike, but run for far enough and it hurts.

I used my 23 mile route with a detour to Five Lanes End on the way back that brought it up to 26.6 miles.  Set-off at 5.15am with the aid of my head torch which meant that I went at a slower, and hopefully more sustainable, rhythm.  That was all very good until nettle ally at the far end of Hackwood Park.  The b*&&ing stingers are harder to dodge in the dark and so my legs were glowing brighter than the head torch by the time I reached the A339 and the start of the serious hills.  The twinge in my left knee was there, as it had been last week, every time I tried to put in a low stride.  It was OK as long as I picked up my leg properly but that's the leg with the dodgy hamstring  :demon:  Still, its techniques like this that these training runs are supposed to develop.  I learned how to pedal properly riding silly distances, now I'm learning to run properly by the same method. 

I think I've hit on the right method for me to feed whilst running  (that's another problem with upping the distance.  Up to four hours I can go on water and a few jellybabies but beyond that hunger-knock beckons).  At about 13 miles, at the top of the long drag out of Bradley I slowed to a walk, unhitched my bum bag, extracted a Tunnocks caramel wafer, and munched it at a brisk walk, returning to a run as soon as I'd put the last piece in my mouth.  It will lose me a bit of time, but I can't eat and run, I've tried and its messy and horrible.  I did the same again at about 21 miles, in the desolate shade of Five Lanes End.  By then I was an automaton, lifting the legs and trying to ignore the pain.  I did so quite well until the steep steps of the railway bridge with just over a mile to go, when everything went a bit wobbly.

I reached the marathon mark just under my best for a mostly off-road marathon but was still a couple of minutes over my target time for the run.  It's the first time I've run the marathon distance in training, which sounds impressive until you realise that it was still nearly 19 miles short of my actual race distance.  That's as long as many people's longest run before their marathon.  That's a very grim though on which I don't wish to dwell.  Instead I will hold out hope that I can find that eternal pace that true trail runners must have, slow but never-ending, before December, and do the event in style.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 12 September, 2014, 12:45:35 pm
I did the Kent Coastal Marathon last weekend - my first ever full marathon.

Training did not go well. Work and life and stuff got in the way. I did lots of cycle commuting and a 600km audax over the summer but very little running. In fact, I ran only once in the five weeks leading up to the event, and that was a planned 30-32km run that I had to abandon after about 24km because I couldn't manage any more.

Taking that into account, I'm actually rather pleased with my finish time of 4hrs 28mins.

It was a lovely day for it - started warm and sunny but fortunately cooled off a bit in the second half thanks to a bit of mist and sea breeze. I'd started with the intention of running under 4hrs and managed to keep up a steady 5:40/km pace for the first half, which was particularly pleasing as it was a fairly undulating route. I still felt good as I pressed on into the second half, but as I reached the 15 mile marker and entered hitherto uncharted territory, I started to fade. I fell in with a chap and got chatting, which was great motivation as I pressed on to keep up with him for a couple of miles.

But I kept plodding on and didn't stop at all until around 20 miles, by which point it was starting to get very tough going. It didn't help that I stumbled at one point and stubbed my toes very hard against the road (they're still feeling very tender). Then at about 23 miles I developed cramp in my right calf and had to stop to stretch it off. A little further on, I developed cramp in my left calf and foot, which was weird, but being so close to the finish, I tried to press on.

For the last few km, I fell in with another running companion - a woman who earlier this year had run 10 marathons in 10 days. In the Lake District! The company was the motivation I needed to make one last push and even muster up something resembling a "sprint" to cross the finish line.

Aside from the painful toes, a few blisters and general muscle tiredness, the legs are feeling almost back to normal now, which is great. And probably just as well given that I've got marathon number 2 in a week's time...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 13 September, 2014, 03:27:49 pm
Well done on your first marathon citoyen. So what's the target for the next one?



I did a ParkRun this morning, which is the first one I've done since April. I was surprised that I managed a sub 19 minute run considering over the past eight weeks or so I've only done a few runs from work to home, and that's only about 3 km. I have done a lot of cycling, so perhaps that has helped. Lets see what time I manage next Saturday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 13 September, 2014, 03:42:50 pm
Next one is a trail marathon with 1500m of climbing so the target is just to finish in one piece! I'll probably set the pacer on my Garmin at 8mins/km which would get me round in about 5.5hrs. I'd be very happy with that.

Looking at the numbers on last week's marathon, I think I set off a bit too fast:
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/589228760
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 13 September, 2014, 04:57:13 pm
Which trail run?  I'm doing the Beachy Head at the end of October as preparation for the Dorset Coast Ultra.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 13 September, 2014, 05:24:57 pm
This one:
http://hellyhansenbeautyandthebeast.co.uk/

I did it last year as part of a team, so only did two of the six laps. This year I'm attempting the whole thing solo. This is what the lap looks like, assuming it will be the same as last year: http://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/380524517

It's mostly undulating but there are a couple of sharpish climbs, and a stream to cross.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 13 September, 2014, 07:28:27 pm
Looks tough.  At least with laps you know what's coming up, so you don't have a nasty surprise at the end.  The Beachy Head has 1350m on a contour count, so on paper is slightly easier, but can get very windy along the coast.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 14 September, 2014, 10:17:01 am
...and at the other end of the distance scale...
It was 'our' Parkrun's first birthday yesterday (Yeovil Montacute). There was supposed to be a 'red white and blue' theme. The only suitable shirt I had in an appropriate colour....
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5566/15224788465_0cf1c1b8db.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pcn2bR)
P1040954 (https://flic.kr/p/pcn2bR) by a.nbiss00 (https://www.flickr.com/people/109569525@N05/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 14 September, 2014, 11:41:16 am
...and at the other end of the distance scale...
It was 'our' Parkrun's first birthday yesterday (Yeovil Montacute). There was supposed to be a 'red white and blue' theme. The only suitable shirt I had in an appropriate colour....
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5566/15224788465_0cf1c1b8db.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pcn2bR)
P1040954 (https://flic.kr/p/pcn2bR) by a.nbiss00 (https://www.flickr.com/people/109569525@N05/), on Flickr


Why would you carry water for a 5k run? It's really not required and will only slow her down.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 14 September, 2014, 12:15:19 pm
Why would you carry water for a 5k run? It's really not required and will only slow her down.
No idea, but she's not the only one who does!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 14 September, 2014, 02:27:14 pm
Could be preparation for longer events e.g. where orgs don't supply water.

Or nowhere safe to leave it at the start.

Some people run 5 miles to/from their park run.


Etc ...

Who knows?!?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 14 September, 2014, 11:24:31 pm
No, I think it's just that some people really do think they need water for a 5k run.

And maybe they do - I wouldn't myself but hydration is a very personal thing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 23 September, 2014, 12:52:46 pm
How do you fit in long training runs?  You have to take every opportunity. We had a trip to my wife’s parents to sort out some paperwork.  As usual with these things it took up the middle of the day.  So I suggested that I run back.  My schedule had a 30-mile effort and a quick check on Google indicated it was about 33 miles.

So at three in the afternoon, after sorting out the paperwork and cutting their hedge I laced up my running shoes and headed out of Rowlands Castle at 3pm.   It was hard to get into a rhythm on the steep hills of the South Downs and there was a brisk northerly headwind, not what I wanted to greet me at the start of a one-way run.  Soon the bulk of Butser Hill loomed ahead, a steep 150m ascent to the highest point on the South Downs.  This will be good training for the Dorset Coast Ultra, I thought, as I laboured up barely faster than walking pace.  The water worn descent was probably better training, forcing me to tread carefully or risk a broken leg.  After Ramsdean the bridleway wasn’t well used, so more nettle stings.  The top of this hill was steeper than Butser and I walked about 50m. 

All the footpaths I’d picked out from Google Streetview and close ups on the satellite view were good except for one which crossed a ploughed field.  I’d been going two hours so stopped to tighten a lace and eat a Tunnocks bar, one of the few things that I seem to be able to eat when running.  There was a long tarmac section up and over the high ground past the Pub with No Name, fortunately set well away from the road so that it could not lure me in. 

The next section was tricky to navigate and I stopped a couple of times to check the map.  One steep little ramp brought me to a standstill so I stopped and ate an admired the view, one of those hidden valleys you can only see if you get off the beaten track, the low sun picking out every angle of the landscape.  I continued my weary way, three hours down and still south of Alton, which was probably two hours from home.

But as the sun lowered, the temperature cooled, and I got into a nice rhythm through Chawton, Jane Austen country.  There was another moment of temptation as I passed a pub in the outskirts of Alton.  I could sit with a pint of beer and let the alcohol ease the pain before getting a taxi home.  I gave a group of people sitting on an outside table an envious glance and then continued through a few suburban streets before heading back into the country.  Everything hurt by now and the fact that the next three miles were mostly uphill was not a comfort.

The sun was setting as I reached Shalden, rich amber light glinting through the trees and I stopped and ate my third Tunnocks bar.  The electrolyte drink in my Camelbak was getting low.  I walked for about 100m whilst munching before urging my legs into their fifth hour of running.  The next footpath, one I was a little worried about, turned out to be well trodden and idyllic.  The wooded sections were getting dark and I had to watch my footing.  At least I’d done the last big hill.  When I crossed the next road I was finally on familiar ground, a long wooded descent towards Weston.  I spotted a hare and some deer in a field that pranced more like red deer than the common roe deer.

After Weston were the last two proper hills, at least someone had cleared the path so that it no longer had overhanging brambles and nettles.  I put my head torch on and was soon reliant on its narrow beam.  At least I knew this route, on woodland trails it is easy to lose the path at night.  I was still running in a good rhythm, albeit slowly.  I phoned home to let my wife know I would be late, as it was going to take longer than the 5 hours I’d planned and kept it steady all the way back home.  I was sad that I’d gone slow, but pleased because I think I had finally started to crack the ultra-marathon runner’s secret of that slow but endless pace with which I could tackle greater distances, as my legs were still working effectively at the end.

34.2 miles.  Three-quarters distance.  With eleven weeks to go to the main event that means I’m ahead of the training curve.  I’m starting to believe it’s possible.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 24 September, 2014, 05:42:13 pm
<snip> Long poetic piece </snip>

And there was me feeling quite good about managing to run for an hour for the first time ever over the weekend...
You, sir, certainly live up to your forum name!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 11 October, 2014, 11:41:20 am
I'm back on the Park Run treadmill and my times are improving, but annoyingly today was 18:05. Hopefully next week will be <18:00.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 11 October, 2014, 11:51:05 am
After a break induced by a cycle touring holiday, a freak accident invovling a canal boat and lethargy, I'm back on the trail come Monday morning and looking forward to it.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 11 October, 2014, 07:07:47 pm
It was three weeks since my last epic training run.  Since then I’d only run once, 17 miles at a slow pace shrugging off the after effects of a cold.  I wasn’t concerned; I’ve never run with great frequency; this allows the legs to recover from the pounding.  To stay fit I’d done three 100mile plus bike rides.

But one of the hardest parts of training is getting started.  My only window was 8am to 1pm on Saturday morning and at 7.15am it was raining heavily.  The rain stopped and I started in the dry, trail shoes slithering on wet tarmac, with little enthusiasm.  I’d abandoned plans for a round-Basingstoke run and set out on my marathon route in reverse with a few hilly extras.

I didn’t start to feel happier until Five Lanes End, when the sun came out and lit up an autumn scene.  The plan was 30 miles in under 5 hours.  I got into a good rhythm over the hills.  The trail shoes worked well on the rain-loosened surface and muddy patches.  I played tortoise to a mountain-biker’s hare.  After a couple of hours I stopped to tighten my laces and eat a Toffee Crisp, which slipped down nicely.  I’ve tried lots of expensive energy bars when cycling and found that all of them taste little better than the packaging and are usually indigestible once you’ve been out for a couple of hours. 

I was now out into the open hills of the Hampshire Downs, fine views and good running.  There are lots of short steep sections and the valley floor bits are deeply rutted, which is good practice for balance, trying to maintain the speed whilst hopping from ridge to ridge, without burning too much energy.  I reached my second add-on section, a totally gratuitous long steep hill followed by a shorter steep descent only to retrace my steps, much to the confusion of a dog walker, whose pet was far more interested in my pace than their owner’s. 

Now for the crunch part of the ride, a soul destroying two-mile gradually ascent along a stony track that winds up a wooded valley.  I rewarded myself with a Tunnocks Wafer at the top.  On the long descent my hamstrings began to give me hell and I realised I was growing a third generation blister on a damaged toe.  But I comforted myself that there were only about 6 miles to go and I was going to get back well ahead of time. 

It rained a little, but I was dressed for it, so it was just welcome cooling.  The A339 section passed without event; they’ve cut back the verge, which makes it easier to run on.  Someone had also trimmed back the nettles in Nettle Alley, which I was doubly pleased about because I didn’t fancy nettle stings this late into the run.  I began to pick up speed over the last few miles, a sure sign that my training plan was working, as this was the first time I’d been able to speed up at the end of a marathon distance run.  I kept the speed up all the way back home.  29.4 miles in 4 hours 9 minutes.

The next big run will be in two weeks time, the Beachy Head Marathon, over the South Downs, the Seven Sisters and Beachy Head, starting from Eastbourne.  It’s the training event for the big one at the start of December.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 11 October, 2014, 07:52:30 pm
Now for the crunch part of the ride,
He he!

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 11 October, 2014, 10:13:33 pm
Now for the crunch part of the ride,
He he!

old habits die hard  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 26 October, 2014, 03:10:03 pm
Things are going in the right direction. Yesterday I managed a sub 18 minute ParkRun, and then ran home. Today I have done a 12 km run. However I can feel the increase in effort on my IT band, which I screwed up in January. To avoid messing it up again I'm back to using the foam roller*, core strength exercises and various stretches. It feels like I spend more time on the post-run routine than actually running.


*For something with the word "foam" in the name it is amazing how much pain using the roller can inflict.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 27 October, 2014, 02:19:04 pm
Things are going in the right direction. Yesterday I managed a sub 18 minute ParkRun, and then ran home. Today I have done a 12 km run. However I can feel the increase in effort on my IT band, which I screwed up in January. To avoid messing it up again I'm back to using the foam roller*, core strength exercises and various stretches. It feels like I spend more time on the post-run routine than actually running.


*For something with the word "foam" in the name it is amazing how much pain using the roller can inflict.

I know how you feel.  I reckon that if I do all of the stretches and post-run conditioning that I should do to walk properly afterwards it takes about 25 minutes, whereas after a 4-hour cycle ride, my usual warm down is preparing the pasta sauce, putting the pasta on and running up and down stairs for a shower in the time in takes lunch to cook.  And I still feel better afterwards than if I went for a run.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 28 October, 2014, 12:32:05 pm
When i go training I start from my front door.  I have about five minutes preparation - mostly getting the right tension in my shoelaces, then I'm off.  No fuss.  No palaver.  Just running.

In planing, for the big one, the Dorset coast ultra, I decided to do one trail marathon event as part of my preparation.  The Beachy Head wasn't my first choice, as I'd run most of the route (in reverse) on the Sussex Coast Marathon in March, but on reflection, with over 4000 feet of climbing on coastal paths, it was probably a good one.

So I drove two hours, registered, pinned on my number and hung around for an hour before the start, three hours after leaving home.

The run started with a 'wall', a 30% ramp up the face of the South Downs.  This was my downfall, not because I went too hard, but with my cyclist's legs and aerobic capacity it is the sort of terrain where I have a natural advantage over proper runners.  So I reach the top in the company of those a lot better at this sort of thing than I am.  Although I had the experience to settle in to a steady pace, I kept getting passed.  Endurance sport is about the head and the stomach, once you can run or ride a certain distance it is the mind or the gut that fails you more than the legs.  The experience of being regularly passed by other runners was tough, making me feel that I wasn't going well.

In fact, on the long draggy hills of the first half, I was going really well, faster than in training.  the other problem I had was dodgy sinuses, the aftermath of a touch of a cold during the week.  This had a knock on effect on my stomach, making me feel slightly nauseous.  I concentrated on the checkpoints that came and went: 4 miles, 8 miles, 12.2 miles.  The descents, especially where the path was eroded to bare chalk were treacherously slippery.  Offsetting my discomfort were excellent views over the South Downs to the far-off sea.  I longed for the flat section by Cuckmere Haven before the home run over the Seven Sisters and Beachy Head.

We crossed a road and there was another checkpoint.  I'd been going for a little over two hours, so I stopped to eat one of the snack bars in my bum bag, just as I had done on my training runs and wash it down with some water.  Getting stiff legs back into motion hurt, as did the sensation of being passed by a dozen or so runners as I was stopped.

After the skiddy descent to the Cuckmere River there was a steep muddy ascent.  I was one of the few to run up it.  Then there was another steep slippey descent; it was painful trying to control the pace of descent on tired legs.  I ran up the next ascent until my way was blocked by others walking (at least that was the way I rationalised the marginal relief to my bursting lungs). Here I realised a fault in my training; I'd not practiced walking briskly up such terrain.  Even so I kept going well through the woods and into the open downland near the coast, despite the totally gratuitous hill they threw into the mix.  Looking at my watch I reckoned I had a good chance of going under 4 hours (I'd done 4-08 on the Sussex Coast).

The Seven Sisters are one of the most magnificent stretches of coastline in Britain, rolling hills that meet the sea in vertical chalk cliffs.  but running along them is a rollercoaster of drops and climbs that blow any sense of rhythm.  In the spring, at the start of a run, they were a joy to fly down and dig deep on the way up, but after 20 miles they were purgatory.  No one was running up them, not even the guy with the Ultra Tour de Mont Blanc finishing shirt.  That meant seven painful transitions from walking back to running.  The only pleasure was seeing that I was on the final descent to Birling Gap.  That meant just the long drag up Beachy Head and a quick descent into Eastbourne to the finish.  And I knew I was good at long drags.  But after the Seven Sisters my legs and mind were destroyed.  i laboured up the hill.  In one spot there was a low bank, only about two feet high.  It stopped me in my tracks and I stood for a moment, disorientated, wondering what I was doing.  Then I continued, until a short descent that broke up the rhythm that I had struggled so hard to regain.

At the top I walked for a bit, aware that I wasn't going to finish in under four hours and putting off the agonising moment of starting to run again.  Then it was all downhill, finishing on that terribly steep ramp, finishing in 4 hours 6 minutes.

I should have been pleased.  I wasn't on a good day and yet I'd still done marginally better than I had in the spring.  But at the moment of finishing I was thinking that, on the big event, on similar if not worse terrain, I would have 19 more miles to do.

But once I'd had some recovery drink I reflected on a few things.  Firstly, on the Sussex Coast, I had been on a good day.  Secondly, there were a lot of good runners in this event (an entry of 2000 compared with 200) which meant that there was a lot more distraction from other competitors.  Thirdly, the Seven Sisters had exposed a weakness, that I can address in the few training runs that remain.  Finally, I was nowhere near as destroyed as I had been after the Sussex Coast.

So I'm still on track for the 45 mile monster in December.  Based on this experience I think it will take 8 hours...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 02 November, 2014, 04:06:58 pm
Just 17 miles today!  Wanted to stretch the legs but couldn't face another marathon training run.  After Five Lanes End it hosed it down, but the ground was still firm enough that most of the way it was Splish-Splash rather than Squelch-Squelch.  On the way back, got into fast mode on the long rain-softened descent from Weston Common and kept the speed back all the way home, so that I was only 17 seconds of my best for this test piece, which was set in the dry. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 08 November, 2014, 10:25:48 pm
Sorry to hear.  Hope its something simple.

I'm nursing a dodgy big toe, the main joint has gradually got worse over the years, so the next big run will be the last for a while.  In any case it will be impossible to do any big running events next year with PBP and the Cambrian 8A on my agenda - I don't have time to take both cycling and running sufficiently seriously.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 08 November, 2014, 10:26:40 pm
Four weeks to go…

This week and next week are the hard ones, running for as long as I have time for.  The distances will taper after three weeks to go so that the legs can recover before the big day.  Today it was 36 miles, mostly on tracks and muddy footpaths, a week of showers having got into the ground.  It was windy, sometimes enough to blow me off course.
 
Mid Hampshire is a landscape of rolling hills and small woods, not dramatic, but pretty in the late autumn, fallen leaves cushioning the stony ground but also hiding the depth of the mud.  The first two hours passed without adventure, even paths I’d never been along before from Shalden to Wivelrod via Bentworth.  But then a squall hit.  I stopped to check the map and have a snack and then headed off in what turned out to be the wrong direction.  At least I noticed that things weren’t right before I added much to my journey.

The third hour involved a long leg to the west.  I settled into my long distance pace and tried to ignore the growing pain in my legs.  On a short road section I stopped for another snack, resting against a gate, trying to stretch taut calves and hamstrings.  The Ox Drove was rolling, constantly up and down, making it hard work, but I was on the homeward run. 

Four hours were up.  Two short steep hills around Moundsmere were hard work and then there was a long drag up to Farleigh Wallop.  By the time I got to the top I could hardly put one foot in front of the other.  I laboured down the hill.  The last five miles took about an hour.  Everything hurt.  I was running on empty.  Twice I stopped to stretch and drink or eat.  Finally I reached the canal towpath and the last mile.  I wasn’t much under six hours but I had finished and learnt more about running distances.  I’m not sure that I like what I learnt, but another run like this and I will have done as much as I can do to prepare for 45 miles on the Dorset Coast in December.

Once when I was about to set out for a long cycle ride I had to do an emergency nappy change for my younger son.  I could imagine at the time Lance Armstrong (he wasn’t disgraced at the time) doing the same before a stage of the Tour de France.  Today, once I’d stretched after the run and eaten some pasta, I did the weekly shopping.  I can’t imagine Mo Farah doing that after a long training run.  But then again, perhaps he does.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: swiss hat on 09 November, 2014, 01:09:35 pm
Good going CET to fit these runs into a busy schedule. 2 x 36 mile runs and then rest before the main event and you should be able to put in an excellent run  :thumbsup:
In comparison I had an easy 2 hours along the Thames towpath from Kew to Teddington this morning. A good day to be out running 8) 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 16 November, 2014, 11:47:30 am
Saturday 8th Nov. = Park Run + running home
Sunday 9th  Nov. = 12 km + interval training up & down a hill
Monday 10th Nov. = 8 km run home

Since then no running as I've been limping. Stupid IT band. More foam rolling and stretches needed :-(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 16 November, 2014, 09:16:37 pm
I went cycling instead of running today.  Should have done my last big training run, but that will now be next weekend.  Really enjoyed the cycling.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 23 November, 2014, 09:55:55 pm
Two weeks to go…

I didn’t do a hard run last week.  With other things happening at the weekend the only time to have started was 11am on Sunday, which would have meant the whole weekend was used up.  Besides, I didn’t really feel like it.  So I got on the bike and joined my cycle club on their club run for the first time this year.
All that did was put off the long run to the next weekend; when we were due to go to our caravan in Selsey.  I could do the run on Sunday morning.  But the weather forecast for Sunday morning was dire, even for someone used to training in bad weather.  So at 10am on Saturday morning the plans changed and 45 minutes later I was running from home to get as close to Selsey as I could.

The first ten miles were familiar roads and tracks to Alton, the ground soft and muddy underfoot, a surprising amount of leaves clinging to the trees, especially the young elms and field maples.  I plodded through Alton, dodging shoppers with heads bowed in the light rain.

The bridleway out of Alton was a river, water flowing down an ancient trackway, polishing the old stones.  I slithered and stepped my way up, shoes full of water for over half a mile before reaching dry land.  Just after two hours I stopped to check the map for the next section and munched a brioche roll. 

The route followed the escarpment of the Lower Chalk, lots of short steep climbs and boggy hollows, a part of Hampshire I’d rarely explored. The scenery was outstanding even if the terrain was hard.  After a steep hill on a road I turned left.  Some lads in a four-wheel-drive gave me a cheery grin.  Half a mile later I understood.  A deep puddle spanned the track from bank to bank.  There was a path around the side which made it most of the way around but I was going to have to wade the last section.  It was knee deep, but I put a foot in a soft patch and I was in up to my waist.  I floundered my way to dry land.  Luckily modern clothes wick moisture away and within twenty minutes I was warm again. 

The next three miles were on tarmac before a long steep climb up to Hillbrow.  I was feeling tired and dizzy and stopped to eat some more next to a garage that sold vintage Bentleys.  That perked me up for a while but by Rogate I was feeling rough again.  I promised myself that I would run until 4 hours 30 showed on my watch and that discipline got me all the way to East Harting at 4:45.  Another snack break and then I tackled the South Downs.  I started running but gave up on the 30% grade and three-inch deep mud.  I reached the top in thick mist and late autumn gloom.  My legs hurt as I continued a long steady gradient.  I stopped to check the map.  I had two options, another hour and a quarter to Fishbourne or thirty minutes to Chilgrove.  I could make it to Fishbourne but it would be very tight for time before our dinner at the Blacksmiths.  Common sense prevailed and I phoned my wife to pick me up at Chilgrove.  We arrived at the same time and I levered myself into the car.

It was “only” 33 miles, not very far for 5 hours and 48 minutes of effort, but given the soft ground, floods, and navigation, good preparation for the big event on 6th December.  I will be glad to get it over and done with.  Running hurts.  My left ankle is sore from holding steady despite all slipping and slithering, the tendons tired and slightly bruised, so I won’t run again until the event, to let everything rest.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 28 November, 2014, 08:28:50 pm
Route map is finally out for the Dorset Coast Ultra

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw--uyYQL8uvUE1DX3k0YTFVTGM/view?pli=1

Basically its a marathon, followed by a half marathon, followed by a 10k.  So the good news that you pick up stuff from your kit bag at 27 and 39 miles. The bad news is that you have head out into the wind and rain (and for the last 10k probably the dark) knowing that you could just stop and stagger to your car. 

That is going to be tough.  Very tough. 

I've just worked out why the night circuit on a 24-hour time trial is a long way from the HQ.  To stop you from packing.

Plus I have a nightmare week at work with lots of travel.

Ho Hum.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 04 December, 2014, 09:50:23 pm
There's a Jantastic 2015 thread here (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=86744.0) for those who are planning to spend the early part of next year running. However, unlike last year cycling and swimming also count, making things potentially easier. Let me know on the Jantastic thread if you're interested in me setting up a yacf team for next year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 05 December, 2014, 08:57:38 am
There's a Jantastic 2015 thread here (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=86744.0) for those who are planning to spend the early part of next year running. However, unlike last year cycling and swimming also count, making things potentially easier. Let me know on the Jantastic thread if you're interested in me setting up a yacf team for next year.

Count me out.  After tomorrow I'm hanging up my running shoes and going back to cycling with the occasional bit of rowing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: swiss hat on 05 December, 2014, 09:06:53 am
Count me out.  After tomorrow I'm hanging up my running shoes and going back to cycling with the occasional bit of rowing.

Good luck with the ULTRA run tomorrow CET. Perhaps try shorter off road runs which can be FUN and keep the fitness going over the winter?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 05 December, 2014, 06:59:59 pm
Count me out.  After tomorrow I'm hanging up my running shoes and going back to cycling with the occasional bit of rowing.

But cycling counts! You can have fun when setting your target for a longest ride. "This week CET's target for his longest ride is 300 km" ;-)

Good look with the coast race. I hope it goes well.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 07 December, 2014, 02:07:13 pm
Glorious day, but hard work.

Stayed at the Countryman Inn so only had a five mile drive to the start.  Scraped ice off the windscreen.  It was a cold start.

Sensibly stayed in the pack up the first hill, then stretched my legs.  But the hills along the coast were too steep to run at and tricky to run down.  After about 4 miles we had a long descent followed by a long muddy climb up a ravine to the first checkpoint (6.3 miles).  Felt good but still nervous.  The next 6 miles were the easiest on the route, mostly flat or rolling on grassy paths before a very steep descent back to Lulworth Cove, (12.3 miles in just over 2 hours).   Then it got interesting.

Firstly was a sapping run along the shingle beach, followed by a short steep hill and then a monster, far too steep to run up, followed by a descent that was almost too steep to run down, then straight back up again.  But the scenery through the Lulworth Military ranges was astonishing.  It took almost an hour to get to the next checkpoint (though that was only for the marathon and half runners - not us ultra guys) at 16.3 miles.  But there was another punishing hill almost immediately afterwards and by the time I had got to the end of the ranges and the oil well I was at sixes and sevens.  Audax training took over and I walked for a while up the next hill and for a bit along the gradual climb later on, eating and recovering.  For a short while we were running in the opposite direction to others doing the marathon route; it was encouraging to see them all walking up the bits I had struggled up.  Then we dropped into Tyneham, the fastest half runners going past and a few bystanders shouting encouragement.  I walked up the road to the turn, familiar from the Dorset Coast Audax.  23 miles.  4hr 23 minutes.  Then I got going into a hobbling run to meet the outward route for a big descent and big climb. On one of these sections my right knee started to complain so, just as in Audax events

My fear was getting to the marathon finish (27.3 miles) shot to pieces.  The temptation to stop would then be overwhelming.  So when I next felt the hunger knock I stopped and ate another chocolate brioche which gave me enough energy for the precipitious descent back to the shingle beach.  There were lots of shouts and cheers for those finishing the shorter event.  I ignored those and walked up to the Ultra check point where they went through my bag to see the head torch, first aid kit, survival bag, whistle, windproof jacket, etc that were required to be carried.  My watch showed 5hr 27 mins.  I topped up on snack rations from my bag in the supply tent and headed off to do the first 12 miles again.

I knew I had plenty of time and so did not hurry.   I walked pretty much all of the uphills as, by now, my pace running up them was hardly any quicker.  I'd worn blisters on my second toes, which often happens in such hilly terrain and I also had a hot patch on the inside of my right heel.  There were 18 miles to do and they could be broken down into 6 3mile sections.  This slow and steady strategy worked well for a while and, encouraged I started to run properly again.  This lasted for a mile or so until I felt the nausea of hunger knock return.  Worse still, I realised my Camelbak was getting empty, so I wouldn't have any water to wash food down.  Another brioche and the last of the water got me going again and I walked for the next mile, up the muddy ravine to the next checkpoint 33.6 miles at 7hr 3 min. 

Here I got chatting with someone else and we walked and run for the next two miles until I couldn't keep up with him.  I found the camarderie in these later stages more akin to an Audax event than running events, people would chat, their legs too weary to run hard.  Watching other's run I could see the same laboured gait as I had and didn't feel too bad about my crablike progress. 

As I headed down to the caravan park and the "1 mile to go" sign for the second time a couple of faster runners went past me, full of the elation of being about to finish.  I continued at my pace, enjoying the last of the sunset. 

I checked in and got a scone from my supply bag and started the slow walk up the first hill.  I ran quiet well down to Durdle Door and made it up to the top of the next climb before switching on my head torch.  I even passed a couple of people on this section.  But I'd miscounted my climbs and so there was a period of false elation before I realised I still had a mile long drag to go to the final checkpoint.  I was struggling again but my spirits were lifted by joining a group who were still on their second loop, so I was 6 miles and 2 hours ahead of them.  I managed to run most of the way to the caravan park.  Up the last hill I was aware of someone behind me and I decided that I wouldn't give up any more places.  But I couldn't go too fast down the last descent, especially as my head torch was about to expire.  So as soon as I got to easier ground I stretched my legs.  With the prospect of an end to the torch, the muscles seemed to free up and I was able to run properly for the last 100 yards and my final check in.   

I didn't hang around at the finish.  I wanted to do the short drive back before rigor mortis set into my legs and whilst the adrenalin was still flowing.  I gave a German runner, Johannes, a lift to Wool Station and then rolled into the Countryman for a long bath and a vast mixed grill.

10 hrs 10 minutes is the rough time on my watch so an hour or so longer than I expected, but a contour count this morning (now that I knew the route) suggested at least 2880m ascent, so probably more like 3000m when all the little undulations are added in.

So that's it for silly running events for a while.  I'm going to let the legs recover and start towards some rowing goals next, as I think that will better training for PBP next year.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 07 December, 2014, 05:44:28 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: swiss hat on 07 December, 2014, 05:46:32 pm
Quite some achievement CET  :thumbsup: That is a rugged coastline to run along. You deserve a rest and post run massage to help recover.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 07 December, 2014, 06:01:16 pm
terrific effort CET, my running has stopped in january when i was knocked off the bike, took couple of months to heal and just couldn't restart running after that. entered a ballot for london marathon in hope that this will re-ignite my motivation, but didn't get a place and decided to stick to cycling this/next year (got some rollers for when it's cold and icy outside).

well done to all runners posting here - and keep it going! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 08 December, 2014, 05:04:58 pm
60th out of 110 finishers and 166 starters
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 08 December, 2014, 05:43:40 pm
Incredible effort, CET. Chapeau.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 12 December, 2014, 09:32:21 pm
The sort of feat I can't even imagine, CET.

And back at rather shorter distances, I did my second proper 'long slow run' at lunchtime. Am I allowed to be a little peeved that the time for 10k was one hour and ten seconds? Actually I'm pretty pleased with the time, but if I'd only known how close I was...

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 12 December, 2014, 10:55:18 pm
WTF is the point of a "long slow run" if you're going to worry about times?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 13 December, 2014, 12:12:52 am
Slow is relative, innit? Too slow and it loses its training value.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 19 December, 2014, 09:44:30 pm
Blog for the Dorset Coast Ultra has now been written.

https://crazyenglishtriathlete.wordpress.com/2014/12/19/the-dorset-coast-ultra/ (https://crazyenglishtriathlete.wordpress.com/2014/12/19/the-dorset-coast-ultra/)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 22 December, 2014, 07:06:51 pm
Slow is relative, innit? Too slow and it loses its training value.
Sorry,  I'm very late in disagreeing with you :)

But I don't agree - you cannot go so slow as to get *no* training value. All miles give adaptations.
(Ill dig out some references to refute your next post when it arrives :P I know there are plenty of runners who juist dont believe in running slowly - every run is either "quite hard","intervals" or "race pace". Old skool! ) 


Meanwhile,  I'm quavering over entering https://www.jantastic.me/rules/ (YACF team, obviously - cos my 'proper' club membership has lapsed ).
This is the first December I've been running regulary injury-free (albeit tiny miles),  BUT every other time I've commited to running 'things' it has resulted in injury soon after. Can I avoid the curse this time?!? A week to decide...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 22 December, 2014, 07:15:00 pm
WTF is the point of a "long slow run" if you're going to worry about times?
And I'm very late in commenting about this!
I wasn't worrying about the time while I was running. It was just that when I got home about five hours later (run was lunchtime), I noted that the time was so annoyingly over the hour!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 23 December, 2014, 11:22:41 am
But I don't agree - you cannot go so slow as to get *no* training value. All miles give adaptations.

I'll be interested to see your references. My understanding is that any exercise has to at least elevate your heart rate significantly above normal for your efforts to have any training value - otherwise you might as well say that just getting out of bed in the morning is training.

But my understanding may be wrong - it wouldn't be the first time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 23 December, 2014, 02:46:01 pm
If walking is better than nothing (and it surely is) then it doesn't matter how slowly you run in empirical terms, though obviously it does matter for any training plan how slowly you run- for you.

Just IMO, obviously.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 24 December, 2014, 06:43:17 pm
Sorry for the delay, hopefully this is in time for boab and cit to plan their pre-xmaslunch runs!

A quick google produced this page which looks at some of the science. http://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/optimal-long-run-pace/

Here's the summary:
Quote
The body of evidence is clear, your optimal long run pace is between 55 and 75 percent of your 5k pace, with the average pace being about 65 percent.

It’s also evident from this research that running faster than 75% of your 5k pace on your long run doesn’t provide a lot of additional physiological benefit. Therefore, pushing the pace beyond 75% of 5k pace only serves to make you more tired and hamper recovery.

In fact, the research indicates that it would be just as advantageous to run slower as it would be to run faster. 50-55 percent of 5k pace is pretty easy, but the research clearly demonstrates that it still provides near optimal physiological benefits.


If you’re feeling tired and the long run isn’t scheduled to be a hard day, don’t be afraid to slow your long run down. My suggestion is to start on the slower side of the pace recommendations (50% of 5k pace) and slowly pick it up through the run if you feel good.
(my bold)

I think you'll agree that 50% of your 5k PB pace is v v slow indeed! Thats ~14min-mile pace for me. I suspect I only jog that slowly between hard intervals, if at all.

Two waffly points that I believe back all this up*:
- at any speed/effort, no matter how slow, your body makes efficiency adaptations. Physios talk about stuff like "muscle firing sequences". This is why a slow run is better than - say - a slow bike ride, for running purposes. And;
- the reasons to avoid overdoing the long run are to keep some energy back for the more focused sessions, and to minimise your injury risk (injuries correlate strongly with your overall weekly training load,  especially overtraining).


*(based on papers wot I have read,  but cannot quote here!)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 24 December, 2014, 07:35:17 pm
I think you'll agree that 50% of your 5k PB pace is v v slow indeed! Thats ~14min-mile pace for me. I suspect I only jog that slowly between hard intervals, if at all.

50% of my 5k pace would barely amount to a brisk walk! My pre-Xmas lunch run will be a parkrun, so I'll be aiming to be a wee bit quicker than that.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 26 December, 2014, 05:39:45 pm
Having done quite a few 30min+ runs now (albeit pretty slowly) without issues,  ive talked myself into doing tomorrow's parkRun. I'll delay registering for jantastic until Sunday,  in case something flares up tomorrow and I have to let down the YACF team before I even start!

2ry Hazards:
- it will be muddy. My trusted trail-shoes are worn to uselessness,  so I'll have to use the new ones which are almost untested.
- It will be 1'c. Fine for the run,  but I've totally forgotten what clothes to wear/take on the ride to/from! Much more complicated than just doing a 90min ride. Oh well, it'll probably work out ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: davelodwig on 13 January, 2015, 08:53:45 am
Fastest 5K Ever!!!!!!!!!

Well today doing 2 min run / 30 sec walk intervals I ran my fastest ever 5k with 6.59 km's.

I've never run that fast usually bouncing around 7.30 a km and more usually 8.30 a km.

I'm so chuffed, shame I now have to go to the dentist.

D.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 13 January, 2015, 10:23:19 am
I've totally forgotten what clothes to wear/take on the ride to/from!

Don't over-think it. I just wear my running gear for my four mile ride to parkrun, with a softshell over the top if it's cold, and my running shoes in my saddlebag to change into when I get there. If it's a shorts day, not quite cold enough for running in leggings, I might wear knee warmers for the ride as well.

In summer, I have been known to wear my trisuit, but I don't think I could get into that at the moment even if I wanted to.

Fastest 5K Ever!!!!!!!!!

Well done! The run/walk strategy sounds like a very sensible approach.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: davelodwig on 13 January, 2015, 10:41:53 am

Fastest 5K Ever!!!!!!!!!

Well done! The run/walk strategy sounds like a very sensible approach.

I had a thought that given I use variable intervals to build up to 5k why not use them to improve my pace rather than just going for it wearing myself out and then walking or giving up.  I found myself pushing more given that I knew I could rest for 30 seconds. Funny thing was when I finished I felt like I had more in the tank so I suspect that number can and will come down over the next few months.

The annoying thing is of course is about a year ago I was happily running 20k with no breaks up hill and down dale and then I sprained my ankle power kiting and the weight just piled on and my motivation vanished. Weddings of course are massive motivators and I refuse to look like a lard boy on my own wedding day in July so It's all go.

D.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 15 January, 2015, 06:39:06 am
Escaped Hull Road Travelodge last night for a run around Heslington Common and down to Poole Bridge and back.  Mostly off road, except for the bit through Heslington.  Flat as a pancake except for the A64 flyover.  Nice strong headwind spitting rain at me on the way out and big fast tailwind on the way back.  Wasn't as fast as I expected but legs are in good nick this morning given it was the first run since the Ultra 6 weeks ago.  Going to stick to my promise not to enter any running events this year but enjoy a run like this every week or two as cross-training / escape from office + train + hotel drudgery.  9.4 miles
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 15 January, 2015, 06:43:22 am
A 15 km run after a six week break is impressive.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 16 January, 2015, 11:27:35 am
Soft ground.  Nice on the joints.  Have also been on the rowing machine and loosened the legs on the Poor Student audax. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 21 January, 2015, 07:30:37 pm
This evening I extended my run commute up to 16 km. It was bloomin' cold to start with and even once I was warmed up I wasn't removing my hat or gloves.

This time last year the longest run I'd done was 10 km, and I was doing 19 minute ParkRuns, whereas this year I've already done a number of 15 km runs and my ParkRun times are a minute faster. Hopefully that will all mean a faster London marathon time. But, first stretches, shower & food.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: swiss hat on 23 January, 2015, 02:54:50 pm
I took the opportunity to have run along the Grand Union canal towpath whilst at Teethgrinder's place. Longest run so far this year of 3 hours, ~20 miles to Stoke Bruerne and back. Lovely day bright winters day to be out with the right layers as it was barely above freezing even at midday, the canal was frozen solid in most places. There's an interesting 19th century iron aquaduct over the river Ouze just north of Wolverton.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 24 January, 2015, 09:01:09 am
Good going Swiss Hat. 

Can't fit a cycle ride in this weekend so went out for a run in the dark, three laps of my suburb, which is just under 6 miles but added in intervals up the steep hill (rises 25m in 200m and the second half is significantly steeper than the half) x2 on the first lap and x3 on the next two laps.  Gathering by how sleepy I felt after breakfast it was a good workout and I think I will repeat it.  (I should have done x4 on the last lap but I lost count and was halfway home before I realised - so they must have been good intervals.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: swiss hat on 24 January, 2015, 11:27:53 am
Nice running Swiss H. I had to look up that viaduct, although I couldn't find many photos of it. The GoogleStreetview trike has clearly been along the canal towpath though :)

For aquaduct officianados (there must be some out there):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosgrove_aqueduct

The Pontcysyllte aquaduct mentioned in the Wiki article is crossed on foot during John Hamilton's Offa's Dyke 600. Not recommended for vertigo sufferers as there is a 126 foot drop on one side and water on the other. Hope that John will revive the event in the future - it was a classic.   
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 31 January, 2015, 12:58:48 pm
Park run this morning. Went to the scanning table and produced my keyring as I have one of the plastic tag barcodes.
Or rather, I had one of the plastic tag barcodes. I now have half a tag with no barcode.
And it would have been a PB as well.  :'(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 31 January, 2015, 01:16:33 pm
Well it still is a PB, even if it isn't on the ParkRun results page.

It was a good morning for PBs. I managed to remove 16 seconds from my ParkRun PB this morning, which is the first improvement in my PB since April 2014 :). Plus the guy who won the ParkRun was justifiably well chuffed because he dipped under 17 minutes for the first time ever.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 31 January, 2015, 05:18:19 pm
I posted a note on the our ParkRun's Facebook page (mostly to warn people to check the tags occasionally) and our run director saw it and has added my time to the results! (I hadn't actually forgotten the bar code which would have been a no-no!)
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 01 February, 2015, 12:45:35 pm
This morning I ran the Watford half marathon. It was very windy cycling to the train station and it was equally windy in Watford. It was freezing hanging around in the start pen and I was wearing a long sleeved top, gloves, buff and long trousers. God knows what those in shorts and vests were feeling. Hypothermia would be a good guess.

The race was on closed roads and so not having to worry about traffic was a delight. The first half was into the wind, which is better than the other way round! It was an undulating course. My local Park Run has a few small hills and my experience of making up time on the downhills was useful as I kept passing people who looked uncomfortable running downhill. Finish time was around 1:21 which I'm very happy considering the time of year and nature of the course. Next up is the Hampton Court half in two weeks time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: swiss hat on 01 February, 2015, 02:15:47 pm
That's an excellent run adamski, especially in cold and blustery conditions.

I ran the final fixture of the Thames Valley XC league. Only 9km but plenty of mud and trails.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 01 February, 2015, 07:15:28 pm
Run Until You Drop:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw-Kw6AR8_hmQ2lKZXo3ZVpNbEU/view?pli=1
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 04 February, 2015, 08:07:18 am
This morning I ran the Watford half marathon. It was very windy cycling to the train station and it was equally windy in Watford. It was freezing hanging around in the start pen and I was wearing a long sleeved top, gloves, buff and long trousers. God knows what those in shorts and vests were feeling. Hypothermia would be a good guess.

The race was on closed roads and so not having to worry about traffic was a delight. The first half was into the wind, which is better than the other way round! It was an undulating course. My local Park Run has a few small hills and my experience of making up time on the downhills was useful as I kept passing people who looked uncomfortable running downhill. Finish time was around 1:21 which I'm very happy considering the time of year and nature of the course. Next up is the Hampton Court half in two weeks time.

Top stuff Adamski.  I couldn't get close to that time, nor could most serious runners.  Did escape from the Luton Parkway Premier in a couple of nights ago and did just over 10 miles at a reasonable pace.  Would have been a bit quicker if didn't keep getting dazzled by cars with main beams on.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 04 February, 2015, 09:40:49 pm
Good running Adamski. 81 minutes isn't hanging around at any time of year, and in the dark of winter is excellent.

Just registered me and the whole family for the park runs. Really for the rest, but I might jog around and see how the achilles holds up. Did a couple of miles the other morning without repercussions.

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 21 February, 2015, 12:56:35 pm
Despite being crocked currently,  there was a lot of "running" in my morning.

1st up, watched the new parkrun round our chuffing estate. Good turnout*,  everyone seemed to like it. The course is a bit dull, being 3 laps of our rec then a 2km flat (mostly) paved fast finish. Normally this would be alongside the steam-train line, but they were sadly mute today. regular runners reckon it should be pretty fast, so maybe we'll be deluged with PB-chasers :P

2nd up was a rather spiffing R4 docco about Chariots of Fire (3rd of a Sounds of Cinema thing). Some real background nuggets, and just the sound clips got me all nostalgic.


*I say this ... but apparently new events are rather popular with "parkrun tourists" (despite almost no publicity). The 2nd Oxford course went from 280 first week, down to 80 2nd week! We got 238.


Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 22 February, 2015, 01:13:14 pm
This morning was the Hampton Court ½ marathon. My tapering could have been a little bit better as I did nothing from Saturday to Tuesday, followed by a 8 km run on Wednesday, a 12½ km run & 1,500 m swim on Friday & a full on effort at ParkRun yesterday :facepalm:.

This morning was beautiful and while it was icy it wasn't too cold as the sun was out. After dropping off my excess kit at the bag drop I enough time for a wee wee and push my way to the front of the starting pen. So much for a warm up :facepalm:.

The ½ marathon kicked off and within the opening minutes we were mixing it with runners on a 10 k race that had set off 15 minutes early. Chaos ensured as the fast boys & girls had to overtake the 10 k runners :facepalm:. At 1½ miles there was a split in the route, but it wasn't clear which way to go, so I ended up stopping, walking back to the marshals and eventually discovering I had been right all along. I guestimate 45 - 60 seconds was wasted :facepalm:. (From comments overheard I wasn't the only person affected.)

Things then improved with a good route along the Thames to Kingston and back via Hampton Court. However, my digestive system didn't feel quite right. I couldn't drink, wasn't brave enough to attempt to consume the gel that was in my pocket and felt like I would get a stitch at any moment.

The final ¾ of a mile were through woods, which had been churned up by the 350 people doing the 10 k. Spikes rather than road shoes would have been the better option.

So, all in all, not that great. I think I finished around 83 minutes and yet my chip time is 1:22:38, 49 seconds faster than the gun time. That cannot be correct as I was pretty much right at the front of pen, and even the guys at the front have a ~45 second offset. Hey ho.

Edit: And now the chip times have been modified.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 04 March, 2015, 02:13:31 pm
Went on lunchtime run with colleagues. Could keep up. 6th overall on Almondsbury Hill.

Out of 13.  ::-)

The CR is held by a guy sat near me. Not sure I can knock over a minute off, sadly. My HR was 180 from keeping up with the fastest in our group on the hill as it was.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 07 March, 2015, 11:47:09 am
I've just shaved 22 seconds from my ParkRun PB :smug:.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 08 March, 2015, 06:38:29 pm
I went to a physio on Friday (mainly for cycling-related ITB stuff). In his "general assesment" he identified much reduced dorsiflexion (sp?) in my ankles.
This has been noted before - I broke both ankles 20-ish years ago - but this chap was the first to suggest it might  severely limit any running I do. i.e.make me much more injury-prone.

This is mostly a good thing. Cos;
 I think all information is good, and
 its nice to know that my litany of issues is probably Not My Fault!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: menthel on 13 March, 2015, 02:35:29 pm
One for the gentleman runners here. I am on the last leg of training for a half marathon (its been rubbish training but I will do the distance) and being a cyclist I have not been wearing anything in the pant department under my running tights. On my last two long runs (15 and 18km) I have ended up with a sore patch on my scrotum. Do I need to be wearing something more supportive down there or should I be greasing up? Would some chamois cream be of help in the general area for the finale next weekend?

And yes, after this running will be kept down to 10k and below. I much prefer being on the bike!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 13 March, 2015, 05:32:05 pm
One for the gentleman runners here. I am on the last leg of training for a half marathon (its been rubbish training but I will do the distance) and being a cyclist I have not been wearing anything in the pant department under my running tights. On my last two long runs (15 and 18km) I have ended up with a sore patch on my scrotum. Do I need to be wearing something more supportive down there or should I be greasing up? Would some chamois cream be of help in the general area for the finale next weekend?

And yes, after this running will be kept down to 10k and below. I much prefer being on the bike!

When it's warm I only wear my (lined) shorts. When its cold I like to add a non-cotton layer underneath and tights on top of the shorts. I have had a particularly unpleasant experience, reported elsewhere, after running 10 miles on a cold evening wearing insufficient clothing in that area.

I have only ever suffered friction between my thighs - not scrotum - when I have been heavier than ideal. It's one way of losing weight, but not the most pleasant. Very occasional nipple rub on very long runs is dealt with by wearing appropriate fabrics - again, not cotton.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: menthel on 13 March, 2015, 06:06:35 pm
One for the gentleman runners here. I am on the last leg of training for a half marathon (its been rubbish training but I will do the distance) and being a cyclist I have not been wearing anything in the pant department under my running tights. On my last two long runs (15 and 18km) I have ended up with a sore patch on my scrotum. Do I need to be wearing something more supportive down there or should I be greasing up? Would some chamois cream be of help in the general area for the finale next weekend?

And yes, after this running will be kept down to 10k and below. I much prefer being on the bike!

When it's warm I only wear my (lined) shorts. When its cold I like to add a non-cotton layer underneath and tights on top of the shorts. I have had a particularly unpleasant experience, reported elsewhere, after running 10 miles on a cold evening wearing insufficient clothing in that area.

I have only ever suffered friction between my thighs - not scrotum - when I have been heavier than ideal. It's one way of losing weight, but not the most pleasant. Very occasional nipple rub on very long runs is dealt with by wearing appropriate fabrics - again, not cotton.

Happy running in shorts when the weather improves but I don't think we are there yet. I will see what I can get in the unseamed, non cotton pant. In the meantime Sudocreme has been deployed and the baggy joggers are on.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 14 March, 2015, 12:59:00 pm
I improved my ParkRun PB to 17:01, which I realise is fast, but at the same time gutting. I now need to shave off two seconds to get into that magical sub 17 list.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7594/16810063101_403ee1960f_o.png)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 14 March, 2015, 01:18:49 pm
^^ that's seriously quick, my best ever was 18:58..

haven't done a parkrun for more than a year now :-[
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 17 March, 2015, 01:32:39 am
Saw this link on Twitter. http://time.com/3048568/even-if-youre-bad-at-it-running-reduces-risk-of-death/?utm_content=buffer41f29&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

What's interesting is the shape of the curves. Basically flat once you do some running you're good. There is an upwards turn in one curve where the metric is time, though.

I'd be concerned if there was more of a U shaped curve. Because I'd worry about the implications for audaxers.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 17 March, 2015, 05:32:15 am
I've heard a convincing debunking of that "upwards turn". IIRC its based on a very small dataset - something like 1 death in the group studied. Statistically irrelevant :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 17 March, 2015, 06:12:08 am
I've heard a convincing debunking of that "upwards turn". IIRC its based on a very small dataset - something like 1 death in the group studied. Statistically irrelevant :)

Have a look at.the link I posted in the 'diet health' thread. Not sure the  datasets a so small. This isn't an 'exercise is bad because Jim Fixx died (and I don't like it)' campaign.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 17 March, 2015, 12:50:44 pm
I've heard a convincing debunking of that "upwards turn". IIRC its based on a very small dataset - something like 1 death in the group studied. Statistically irrelevant :)

Have a look at.the link I posted in the 'diet health' thread. Not sure the  datasets a so small. This isn't an 'exercise is bad because Jim Fixx died (and I don't like it)' campaign.
This one?
ftp://www.drjohnm.org/2014/05/exercise-over-indulgence-and-atrial-fibrillation-seeing-the-obvious/

Requires a login!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 17 March, 2015, 01:28:26 pm
Anyone tried running with hand weights?

I could do with something to start getting fit again - can't do much (timewise) running, but there is a nice park next to my house, suitable for a 10min jog. Anecdotal evidence says running with small hand weights means getting more cardio workout for same length of time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: simonp on 17 March, 2015, 02:30:07 pm
I've heard a convincing debunking of that "upwards turn". IIRC its based on a very small dataset - something like 1 death in the group studied. Statistically irrelevant :)

I think I read the same debunking and posted it in another thread. There have been other concerns raised previously. I think the jury is still out overall.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: menthel on 22 March, 2015, 07:15:36 pm
Ran my half marathon today- 2h 6mins so very happy. I have also immediately retired from any further long distance running- 5-10k is more than enough for me!

Also bonked for the first time ever caused by poor pre run nutrition. By the time I finished I was cold, nauseous and shaking, it made the cycle home interesting! Will watch out for that for cycling in the future.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 28 March, 2015, 11:28:06 am
I feel I have a reason to be smug about my ParkRun time.

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8718/16331557094_c11726dfc3_o.png)
:smug: :smug:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 28 March, 2015, 11:45:49 am
I feel I have a reason to be smug about my ParkRun time.

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8718/16331557094_c11726dfc3_o.png)
:smug: :smug:

Cracking on a bit there:) Well done. next target 16 or 16:30?

I was chuffed to run just under 23 1/2 the other night. Still getting faster though, and nearly a v50...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 28 March, 2015, 01:28:53 pm
Must be a good day for Parkrunning. Our course record was broken (first time under 17 minutes) and we had 63 PBs! (including me  :smug: )
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 11 April, 2015, 08:14:59 am
Brighton Marathon for me tomorrow, anyone joining me?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: geraldc on 12 April, 2015, 09:33:19 pm
I plodded round the marathon today. Really caught the sun as well.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 13 April, 2015, 10:09:10 am
Great fun in Brighton yesterday.  Same sun effects for me as geraldc.

Spotted a South Down Velo top in the crowds around the 16 mile point IIRC.

Alton 10 in the diary for 10th May and a Pompey Wednesday Night Bike ride or two.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: geraldc on 13 April, 2015, 11:55:08 am
It's the second time I've done Brighton, enjoy it each time. Doing London once was enough to put me off it. Today I seem to developed marathon related tourettes, I can't move without a barrage of swearing. However all of my colleagues are admiring my tan.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 14 April, 2015, 08:10:15 pm
geraldc - how's the recovery going?

I've just agreed to accompany Hummers on a direct-ish route to the pub tomorrow night.  I'm sure I'll be in safe hands
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: geraldc on 15 April, 2015, 09:24:49 am
Recovery pretty much complete. Contemplating going for a light jog tonight.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 17 April, 2015, 03:09:25 pm
All back to normal for me, should clock up a few km on the bike and have entered a sprint triathlon on the 3rd May.  Haven't been swimming for around 10 months so off to a pool to see how long it takes to do 400m...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: PaulF on 21 April, 2015, 06:42:25 am
Just entered my first half marathon.

Any tips to get me from a 70 miles  per week cycling, 2 miles every couple of weeks running, to turning in a respectable time?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 22 April, 2015, 12:13:36 pm
Just entered my first half marathon.

Any tips to get me from a 70 miles  per week cycling, 2 miles every couple of weeks running, to turning in a respectable time?
You'll probably have to increase that 2miles to at least one 13miler at some point. Race day will suffice.

HTH
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 22 April, 2015, 09:43:53 pm
Paul Martelletti, who lives near me and has done my local ParkRun, won Manchester Marathon last Sunday with 2h17. He's now going for a sub 2h30 London Marathon, but dressed as spiderman. Success will be a pointless world record, and any money raised (after paying Guinness fees for the record....) will go to Parkinson's UK. Details here: http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/spidermanworldrecord
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 22 April, 2015, 10:04:13 pm
Just entered my first half marathon.

Any tips to get me from a 70 miles  per week cycling, 2 miles every couple of weeks running, to turning in a respectable time?

Decide what you think is respectable first. There's a world of difference between running 100, 90 and sub 70 minutes fore a half.

It also depends when it is. If you have a few months you could gradually increase the number and distance of runs, perhaps including a bit of interval work. If it's next week then it's a rule 5 event and you can expect to suffer afterwards.

Basically gradually do more faster, but probably not both at once. The old rule is increase in total distance and longest run is capped at 2 miles or 10% Per week.

It's possible to run a quickest half of under 40 miles per week, although probably not ideal. Under 20,  after a few weeks, could get you round in relative comfort.

Mike.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: PaulF on 23 April, 2015, 05:45:52 am
Thanks, it's not until October so I've got a little time :)


Not sure what you meant by:





It's possible to run a quickest half of under 40 miles per week, although probably not ideal. Under 20,  after a few weeks, could get you round in relative comfort.

Mike.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 23 April, 2015, 01:11:47 pm
Thanks, it's not until October so I've got a little time :)


Not sure what you meant by:





It's possible to run a quickest half of under 40 miles per week, although probably not ideal. Under 20,  after a few weeks, could get you round in relative comfort.

Mike.

Sorry, mobile phone autocorrect runs wild again.

I was suggesting that it's possible to run a quickish half marathon  whilst training for less than 40 running miles per week (when I was a lad I was under 70 minutes on this sort of mileage), and that even if you consistently ran only 20 miles per week you would get around comfortably.

Keys are to:

1. build up slowly - running loads your body differently than the bike
2. run regularly - i'd aim to get to at least 3 times a week
3. gradually increase the distance of your weekly long run and the speed of a shorter one (when you are stronger you might add intervals of some sort)
4. enjoy it

October gives you plenty of time so you can have a lovely spring and summer heading out into the wilds where you live
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: PaulF on 23 April, 2015, 01:17:09 pm
Thanks, makes sense
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 24 April, 2015, 10:10:13 pm
Hi PaulF,

I'd agree with sojournermike; try to run at least 3 times a week comprising interval (fast / slow reps), tempo (run constantly at 1/2 marathon pace or slightly quicker) and longer run at slower pace.

I followed a 18 week programme for the marathon but started at week 6 with a modest level of fitness (ie could run 6 miles without stopping) and comfortably ride a 100K audax so I think your main issue will be not to 'peak too soon' if the event is not until October.  On the schedule I followed, I reached 1/2 M distance at my slow run pace within 3 weeks (ie week 9 of the schedule).  I was running 4 or 5 times per week as I said from a general base level of fitness.  Perhaps a bit of muscle memory from running previously but not much.

I can PM the schedule for the marathon if that helps,

Enjoy,

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 25 April, 2015, 05:53:45 pm
Paul Martelletti, who lives near me and has done my local ParkRun, won Manchester Marathon last Sunday with 2h17. He's now going for a sub 2h30 London Marathon, but dressed as spiderman. Success will be a pointless world record, and any money raised (after paying Guinness fees for the record....) will go to Parkinson's UK. Details here: http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/spidermanworldrecord

16:44 for spiderman at Mile End Park Run this morning as a test run (photo: https://flic.kr/p/s211k5), and over £600 now pledged (http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/spidermanworldrecord). More info on Twitter #spidermanworldrecord (https://twitter.com/hashtag/spidermanworldrecord?src=hash&vertical=default&f=tweets).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Chris S on 25 April, 2015, 10:42:10 pm
Any of you nutters doing the London Marathon tomorrow - Good Luck!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Pippa on 26 April, 2015, 04:46:05 pm
Adamski completed it in 2:44:11. Yay. he says he is now allowed to eat cake and drink gin again. YAY.

Trying to keep up with him via the DR etc was hard work ;)

He is now having an ice bath and squeeling like a small squeely thing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 26 April, 2015, 04:59:23 pm
congratulations Adam, what an amazing result! only eight minutes apart from the legendary Paula :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 29 April, 2015, 06:27:46 pm
Adamski completed it in 2:44:11.

Plus that means Championship start for London 2016. Yay! (Well once the paperwork is done to join a club.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 29 April, 2015, 09:42:25 pm
Adamski completed it in 2:44:11.

Plus that means Championship start for London 2016. Yay! (Well once the paperwork is done to join a club.)

Chapeau Adamski
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 05 September, 2015, 12:46:24 pm
The audax season is almost over, so it's time to get back to the running. My ParkRun this morning was hard work (but better than a fortnight ago when I was still recovering from PBP!). I now need something to train towards to motivate me, so I'll be entering Thames Meander ½ Marathon on 7th Nov.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 15 September, 2015, 01:17:29 am
The audax season is almost over, so it's time to get back to the running. My ParkRun this morning was hard work (but better than a fortnight ago when I was still recovering from PBP!). I now need something to train towards to motivate me, so I'll be entering Thames Meander ½ Marathon on 7th Nov.


I'm enjoying a bit of running again, but my target 1/2M is only about 800m;)

I quite fancy a few 'masters' track races in the spring.

MIke
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 17 September, 2015, 09:05:07 pm
I'm back to running.  Looking at my log book the last run I did was the Pangbourne 100% on 22nd March so quite pleased to still be walking after 4.5 miles around Copenhagen in 33 mins.  Need to pick up the distances each weak so that can run to Gempen from Basel (fantastic route through the woods at night that feels like you are in the middle of nowhere) when I am there in mid-October.  Trying to think of a target to aim for but may just enjoying cross-country running through the autumn in my local neck of the woods.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 08 October, 2015, 10:32:15 pm
International cross country run today.  Ran from the Stucki Hotel along the river and then up into the hills near Sankt Chrischrona and across the border into Germany to the nearest road and back again.  Was fun entering the EU from a non-EU country without anyone knowing, just a small sign by the track to show you were crossing the border.  11.7 miles round trip, so have managed to pick up the distances quickly after a 6 months absence from the trail shoes. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 11 October, 2015, 03:14:15 pm
i have received a "declined entry to london marathon" email last week, so nothing to aim for :). might just stick to cycling - there are so many exciting events to choose from next year!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 11 October, 2015, 03:43:41 pm
i have received a "declined entry to london marathon" email last week, so nothing to aim for :). might just stick to cycling - there are so many exciting events to choose from next year!

Did you also get the magazine with a photo of Spiderman doing his sub 2h30 marathon?

Paul Martelletti, who lives near me and has done my local ParkRun, won Manchester Marathon last Sunday with 2h17. He's now going for a sub 2h30 London Marathon, but dressed as spiderman. Success will be a pointless world record, and any money raised (after paying Guinness fees for the record....) will go to Parkinson's UK. Details here: http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/spidermanworldrecord
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 11 October, 2015, 07:27:04 pm
1:31 in October seems like a decent effort. Certainly better than I'd be capable of doing at the moment. What's the target for VLM? I wont be around for the London 2016. Hopefully I can enter the Championship start and then defer until 2017.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 08 November, 2015, 02:28:19 pm
The presence of a proper runner (1:18 half marathon 2:45 marathon) in one of my teams has spurred me to take running a bit more seriously, so extended the weekly run last week to a Selsey - Pagham Harbour and back epic on salt marsh, shingle and various other interesting surfaces half marathon.  Today it was back to a familiar route to Five Lanes End Hay Down and Tunworth extended with a short out and back section to make it up to the half marathon.  Dead chuffed to be going as quickly on this terrain as I was two years ago despite slightly tacky conditions underfoot after yesterday's deluge.  Last 3 miles back from Polecat Corner were done in 20 minutes which shows that you do get some benefit from slightly downhill and tailwind when running, if not as much as when cycling.  Might have to think about entering an event in the early spring.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 28 November, 2015, 11:58:04 am
i've got a reminder that i should be easing into running gradually and slowly.
i decided to start running again over the winter and after two year break went out for a local 6.3km loop - felt good, muscles were aching pleasantly. after one day's rest rest i did another run (same loop). the pace was lower and i started to feel the aching ligaments, both in the knees and feet/ankles. as the pain was not severe, i thought it will go away once i do more runs. a day later i went out for a third run and my knees and feet started aching so bad that i limped back home from half way through.
now, ten days later i can still barely walk, going down/up the stairs holding onto the railing with both hands. today my knees are starting to feel better, but i'm still limping and might need another couple of weeks before my next morning run - i'll start from 2km now and gradually increase the distance (boring but sensible).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 28 November, 2015, 06:08:45 pm
i've got a reminder that i should be easing into running gradually and slowly.
i decided to start running again over the winter and after two year break went out for a local 6.3km loop - felt good, muscles were aching pleasantly. after one day's rest rest i did another run (same loop). the pace was lower and i started to feel the aching ligaments, both in the knees and feet/ankles. as the pain was not severe, i thought it will go away once i do more runs. a day later i went out for a third run and my knees and feet started aching so bad that i limped back home from half way through.
now, ten days later i can still barely walk, going down/up the stairs holding onto the railing with both hands. today my knees are starting to feel better, but i'm still limping and might need another couple of weeks before my next morning run - i'll start from 2km now and gradually increase the distance (boring but sensible).

I always rest at least 4 days between runs.  Running jars everything up.  Us cyclists tend to have mighty strong engine-room muscles (quads, hamstrings) but those muscles and ligaments that you require to run in a straight line are nowhere near as developed - so we have a much higher risk of injury.  Hence the need to rest.  Running magazines assume you mainly run - and so they encourage people to run 4 times a week to build up leg strength and aerobic fitness, but we get most of that impact-free on the bike.

At least it seems to be working for me.  Ran my 6.7 mile mostly cross-country route today five minutes quicker than the same route two months ago (although that was in the dark) and legs are feeling good.

I do also have a very disciplined 20 minute stretching routine after the run (in contrast to the limited stretching I do after a cycling event).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 05 December, 2015, 06:01:19 pm
I've decided I want to get my ParkRun time back under 18 minutes by 9th January, after which date I'll hardly be running. In way of training I've started taking the longer routes home from work that I know rather than the shortest route, which is only 3 km. I've also had to slowly increase the distance again, but am now back up to 15 km without feeling any tweaks.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 07 December, 2015, 12:47:56 pm
I always rest at least 4 days between runs.  Running jars everything up.  Us cyclists tend to have mighty strong engine-room muscles (quads, hamstrings) but those muscles and ligaments that you require to run in a straight line are nowhere near as developed - so we have a much higher risk of injury.  Hence the need to rest.  Running magazines assume you mainly run - and so they encourage people to run 4 times a week to build up leg strength and aerobic fitness, but we get most of that impact-free on the bike.

I've been thinking about how to avoid running injuries, and considering something like your approach; but I'm not totally sold on your logic :)

OK, so the support muscles are weak - compared to the cycling "engine room" muscles. So surely the answer is to strengthen them. Which is the same requirement that a runner (who ISNT cycling lots) has. Isn't it?

(and that is presumably what the little-n-often, mixture of long/short/fast/slow schedules that are commonly promoted - with variations - should achive. In theory ... )

Discuss!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 07 December, 2015, 08:58:26 pm
Key differences for cyclists are:

1. Tend to have better than average aerobic capacity and endurance, so they can do more running than an untrained person
2. Cycling only can lead to muscle strength imbalances for running and bone mass loss

These both are indicators/causes of high injury risk. The good Dr Ferrari recommends that cyclist run twice a week in winter to build and preserve bone density and muscular balance, but cautions that they should be careful how they go about it.

I'm out running again, not least as a friend wants a pacer for a 7 minute mile Coniston 14 in March. Mixing up both sports creates some interesting training challenges as well as opportunities, which I am still learning about by trial and error.

Advice gratefully received, as long as it doesn't suggest adding swimming to the mix. Remember I was a runner first and competitively and a cyclist later with no aim to compete at all.

Mik
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 10 December, 2015, 02:20:08 pm
If you need to take a 4-day break from it after every run, do you not think you might be going a bit hard?

No.  Even if I go for a two mile jog, I'd still avoid running for the next few days.  I suspect that if I keep up the running, year round, then I might condition things to be able to run more frequently.  All I can say is, it works for me.  Last year I was able to complete the Dorset Coast Ultra (46 miles 11000 feet ascent) in a good time, without injury, and be the first parent (and second adult after a PE teacher) on my son's school's crosscountry run (the 46 miles wasn't good prep for a spring finish). 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 13 December, 2015, 10:24:24 am
Tour of Medmerry today, about 6.7 miles in 56 minutes, off my usual pace, but that's because a couple of miles were done on sand/shingle.  Ran round the new sea defences between Selsey and Bracklesham and then back along the coast, ignoring all the danger deep currents signs, reckoning that 90 minutes after low tide the outflow from the salt marsh would be balanced by the incoming tide and not too deep.  My reckoning was spot on, nothing over knee deep and no current, so saved myself a much longer return run, and had the pleasure of some proper wild country running.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 13 December, 2015, 02:29:07 pm
Sound good CET.

Got out on Friday for about 11km, mixed on and offroad.  Heavy clay around here so very slippy underfoot in places.

As an aside, has anyone on here dealt with bone spurs on the toe joints?
Diagnosed last week, not worth operating on a risk basis, but being suggested orthotics.  Not sure whether i'll need to cut back on running or at least stop doing the ultras.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 13 December, 2015, 04:43:26 pm
I've decided I want to get my ParkRun time back under 18 minutes by 9th January

Whoop! I managed that yesterday despite having the Christmas Party on Friday night and realizing at 1.30 am on Saturday morning that the Head of Year 9 had convinced me to go to Belushi's :facepalm:.


As an aside, has anyone on here dealt with bone spurs on the toe joints?
Diagnosed last week, not worth operating on a risk basis, but being suggested orthotics.  Not sure whether i'll need to cut back on running or at least stop doing the ultras.

No idea, but running seems unlikely to help....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 13 December, 2015, 05:53:32 pm
I've decided I want to get my ParkRun time back under 18 minutes by 9th January

Whoop! I managed that yesterday despite having the Christmas Party on Friday night and realizing at 1.30 am on Saturday morning that the Head of Year 9 had convinced me to go to Belushi's :facepalm:.

No-one managed that at our Parkrun yesterday. First place was just over 20 minutes.
It is all, bar 100m, or so on grass and was just a touch slippery.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 13 December, 2015, 06:03:51 pm
ElyDave: not bone spurs, but AFAIK I broke a middle toe in August 2014 which I didn't bother getting fixed, I just taped it to the next toe along. It still gives me gyp from time to time but I found these to be very useful in absorbing shock: Gel Toe Cap (http://www.boots.com/en/Boots-Advanced-Footcare-Toe-End-Cushion_8418/?cm_mmc=bmm-_-google-_-PLAs-_-Boots%20Shopping%20-%20Category%20-%20Health%20and%20Pharmacy). I have also switched to Hoka One One shoes for most of my road work, they are a bit of a weird thing to run in the first time but soak up the pummelling from tarmac nicely.
There seem to be umpteen "one One" flavours!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 13 December, 2015, 09:18:00 pm
ElyDave: not bone spurs, but AFAIK I broke a middle toe in August 2014 which I didn't bother getting fixed, I just taped it to the next toe along. It still gives me gyp from time to time but I found these to be very useful in absorbing shock: Gel Toe Cap (http://www.boots.com/en/Boots-Advanced-Footcare-Toe-End-Cushion_8418/?cm_mmc=bmm-_-google-_-PLAs-_-Boots%20Shopping%20-%20Category%20-%20Health%20and%20Pharmacy). I have also switched to Hoka One One shoes for most of my road work, they are a bit of a weird thing to run in the first time but soak up the pummelling from tarmac nicely.

I've seen those things, and I must admit i don't think they're for me.

I switched to the minimalist shoes about 5-6 years ago and have been getting on well with those ever since.  Need to be a bit more careful with the calves and achilles but, toe thing apart, I've been able to run much further, much better.  Not sure if the mid foot landing will have aggravated the toe or not.

Are you still erging by the way?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 16 December, 2015, 04:48:24 pm
There seem to be umpteen "one One" flavours!

Yeah, pretty confusing. The Ultramarathon Store (http://www.ultramarathonrunningstore.com/Hoka-One-One-Shoes-s/1935.htm) has good explanation of what they're all like. I've got a few pairs on the go at the moment, from the racer-like Clifton to the sturdy trainer-like Rapa Nui and Stinson. The Clifton in particular is an amazingly light/cushioned shoe which nevertheless has a bit of resilience in the midsole and very little heel drop, something I could never have dreamed existed 10 or 15 years ago. I've worn out a pair in only 550km though. On the plus side, I'm fairly comfortable running 90-100km a week in the more trainer-like models.

Thanks for sharing the link - but found the usual depressing news - not a lot of choice for EU foot size 48 and narrow heels.  Am I just unusual in being a big-footed runner (i must admit to having felt like Gulliver in Lilliput in one or two events) or is there a specialist retailer out there that hoovers up all the big size running shoes.  I've found buying shoes to be a total compromise.  Go to specialist shop and rather than pick style just "go and find what you've got in my size and see if it fits" approach.  If I can find something that doesn't compress my arthritic toes or feels like I've strapped a couple of rowing boats to my feet then I'm delighted.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 23 December, 2015, 04:40:27 pm
CC Basingstoke v Overton Harriers annual cyclists vs runners cross-country run on Sunday.  Was 90 seconds slower than 3 years ago, which I put down to being 3kg heavier.  Also it was muddier than in previous attempts but it is difficult to assess the impact of lack of traction on speed.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 01 January, 2016, 01:10:56 pm
New Year's Eve 10k yesterday, through my village so no excuse really.

I was in two minds whether to run or not having been suffering with a nasty case of shin splints for a few months, rested from running for the last two weeks but gave it a go anyway, with no particular ambition.

Went off way too fast, knowing I was gooing to suffer later, but also trying to take most advantage of the tailwind at the start.

Turned into the wind and felt like I was going backwards. Didn't feel like I had much left at the end, but managed the last km in 4:07.  Overall 45:43, 2min slower than PB, but still 146th overall, 19th age group.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 01 January, 2016, 07:22:35 pm
Boxing Day (belated) parkRun report:

Pretty steady plod round in slightly muddy conditions for me. First hardish/longish run since my recent injuries, so all good.

More importantly I coerced N into doing her first. She's been running on her own since age 15, so her first group/organised/crowd thing was a bit of a shock! She went pretty much backwards in the 100m dash to the first tight corner. But then ....

beat me by over a minute, 2nd fastest W. Quite a nice intro to organised sport :) v v v v chuffed for her.
(this despite "losing at least 3 seconds in one mega-slide"   :facepalm:   ;D  )
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 17 January, 2016, 04:11:12 pm
Excellent, well done. 

Great time for that distance.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hammerman on 18 January, 2016, 01:40:11 pm
Recently started running as a mode of cross training. Never been the sporty type, only took up cycling 6 years ago. Can't believe it but I'm actually enjoying it. Been running for approx 3 months and always take my dog. I ran my first Parkrun in december, was hoping to get sub 30, managed sub 27, well happy.I'd rather trails than road and I've set myself a challenge of running the entire Pembrokeshire coast path, section by section, I managed my lngest run to date on saturday by compleating the section from Manorbier to Bosherston at 16km's. I'd like to finish it before my 52nd birthday in July, but I reckon it might be pushing it a bit.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 18 January, 2016, 04:03:21 pm
I ran the Country to Capital (http://gobeyondultra.co.uk/events/country_to_capital_2016info) yesterday (68km). Very cold early on, although that's not so much of a factor when you're running and did at least mean that the muddy bits were fairly solid. Nice and bright and sunny and some wonderful frosty views over the Chiltern hills. We did encounter some icy patches on the lanes we crossed, but just walked those.

I was going pretty well in good company down to where we joined the towpath on the Grand Union Canal just after Denham, and only started to struggle with dead quads and a sore stomach in the final 8km. Annoyingly my tracker failed soon after the start so my official finish time is just an estimate, I timed myself at 6:22:54, 39th overall and 4th M50. Stairs are a bit of a problem today but it looks as though I don't have any major tweaks or creaks so the build for London Marathon can start in earnest soon.

Nice one  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 18 January, 2016, 08:19:53 pm
I ran the Country to Capital (http://gobeyondultra.co.uk/events/country_to_capital_2016info) yesterday (68km). Very cold early on, although that's not so much of a factor when you're running and did at least mean that the muddy bits were fairly solid. Nice and bright and sunny and some wonderful frosty views over the Chiltern hills. We did encounter some icy patches on the lanes we crossed, but just walked those.

I was going pretty well in good company down to where we joined the towpath on the Grand Union Canal just after Denham, and only started to struggle with dead quads and a sore stomach in the final 8km. Annoyingly my tracker failed soon after the start so my official finish time is just an estimate, I timed myself at 6:22:54, 39th overall and 4th M50. Stairs are a bit of a problem today but it looks as though I don't have any major tweaks or creaks so the build for London Marathon can start in earnest soon.

Well done indeed.

Given you're coming down in distance is time for some speed work:)

Really impressive run - from another v50.

My coaching charge managed to complete her 'normal weekly mileage' last weekend. Hope able to do the hard stuff this week...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 04 March, 2016, 06:30:31 pm
Cycling has been dire recently due to too much business travel, but did manage to run from the Stucki Hotel to Germany over Sankt Chriscrona on Wednesday night, 19km, 280m ascent 1hr 34 min, which was 4 mins faster than the same route in October.   The driving sleet at the top was entertaining.  V pleased given it was the first proper run of the year.  Back to Basel again so may try to get to Gempen on Monday night as I'd prefer to run on potentially snowy roads rather than cycle.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 05 March, 2016, 01:41:54 pm
Don't know if anyone is interested, but I have an entry for the Coniston 14 on 19 March that I will be unable to attend.

Free to anyone who wishes to compete as a V50 and promises not to winner my name (accidentally picked up  that T-shirt when I was 28 and it's not a little embarrassing)

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 08 March, 2016, 09:25:57 pm
Gempen was a no go last night because of snow, didn't fancy battling sliding cars.  So ran along the Weise to Lorrach and back instead this morning.  So an international cross country run before breakfast.  :smug:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 27 March, 2016, 09:21:31 pm
Lost my Pangbourne Parents' title in the week, but the runner that beat me is in the England age group cross country squad.  I thought that, when he let the front group he looked like a useful runner and I made the wise decision not to keep up with him.

Had consolation today by finding a new route from the caravan in Selsey that only had about 3 miles of tarmac in 16.5.  The 2.5 miles on shingle from east of Bracklesham to Wittering was a proper test of strength.  The merry lad with a bottle of Woodpecker Cider cheered me on from the top of the shingle bank.  The footpaths inland were very well way marked, completely unlike those around Basingstoke.  It was a bit eerie running past a several acre greenhouse full of lettuces being grown for planting out, that will be a good proportion of the salads that end up in British supermarkets later in the spring, courtesy of Natures Way Foods.

The last two miles were hard, mostly into the wind, and although my cadence remained fine, I could feel the stride shortening, but I was back exactly on my target time of 2 hours 15 minutes, so I might well have a go at something like the Clarendon Marathon in the autumn.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: jhob on 01 April, 2016, 08:47:28 am
I went for a run for the first time in over a decade at the weekend... and really enjoyed it!

I've never run seriously before but stopped all high impact knee activities around 7 years ago, so no more football, squash or badminton. 

In the meantime I've learnt to better manage my knees and the muscles are certainly a lot stronger than they were because of the amount of cycling I do.  I'm hopefully that this won't mean knee pain returns as I increase running frequency.

I've decided to stick to trail running too, my theory being it should a) be kinder to my knees, and b) develop more muscle groups due to the uneven nature of the surface.

I live on the edge of the Peak District so I'm really spoilt for choice for trails to run.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 16 April, 2016, 02:56:17 pm
Almost enjoying my running training as much as cycling at the moment.  Had 90 minutes while CET Junior 2 was at his trampolining training so headed for a 11.5 mile route to the east of Alton.  I set off in balmy 5C and it started raining, the sort of rain that can find its way into any nook and cranny in cycling waterproofs.  In running shorts I just got wet.  The St Swithun's Way was muddy and the rain freshened up the mud so that anything uphill was distinctly slithery and downhill was interesting. 

I passed Rawles Motorsport, where they restore Austin Healeys, and got a hello from a couple of the guys working there, as well as a glimpse of some cars well beyond my means, then it was into the hill sections, three short steep climbs, the last of which is on tarmac and I know from cycling where I require the granny ring unless I am going really well.  The rain got heavier.  Running into Well from the east a couple of guys on bikes passed me and we had a bit of a chat.  I felt like I was going well and followed them into the top of Quarry Lane before turning off into Frog Lane.  This followed the clay-with-flints layer on top of the chalk and had become a stream bed with a surface of flinty pebbles. 

Further on there were various arrows which I guessed marked out different routes for Lord Wandsworth college cross-country routes.  Trampled detours had been made around several deep waterholes.  Then it was onto the main tarmac section from Sutton Common over the top of the downs towards Golden Pot.  As I was running along I heard familiar voices.  It was the two cyclists, who had dropped down Quarry Lane and presumably laboured up the hill from Lower Froyle.  It spurred me along the last of the tarmac section.  Unfortunately the next track had been four-wheel-driven and so would have been virtually impassable if I'd cared about getting my feet wet.  My hamstrings were starting to tighten so I just ploughed through the mud and water.  The next footpath was even worse, they'd set up a smart paddock which just drained onto the footpath, which had become a quagmire.  After that it was just hard and gloopy, with a difficult descent down the scarp of the downs back to Alton.  92 minutes for 11.6 miles felt like good going in conditions that were enough to have called off the horse racing at Newbury even before the recent rain.  Having said that it would have been miserable on the bike.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 24 April, 2016, 01:30:32 pm
Great run by Oranj today with 3:03:50  :thumbsup: That's entry for 2017 sorted.

I'm hardly doing any running (because of touring so not a bad reason!) but I'm still sad not to be doing London marathon today. Instead I've done some international ParkRun events which has been good fun. I'll be able to enter London 2017 with my marathon time from 2015, so I'll see Oranj on the start line!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 27 April, 2016, 09:46:52 pm
No running for me at the moment, achilles tendonitis recurrence  >:(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Legs on 04 May, 2016, 02:24:45 pm
Going in the ballot for VLM 2017  :thumbsup:  I've only got a 3:23 to show for the one marathon that I've done, but I think under 3 is achievable if I have a good run of it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 14 May, 2016, 05:16:44 am
I did my (https://images.parkrun.com/website/results/50_club_mini.jpg) ParkRun this morning in Grafton  :thumbsup:  But I missed the course record by a few seconds :(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 14 May, 2016, 11:37:24 am
Early this morning, before getting up for our parkrun, I was trying to work out how you'd managed to finish yours by 5.15 am.
Then I remembered your in Oz!
Congratulations!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: handcyclist on 14 May, 2016, 12:32:20 pm
Congrats!

I missed my parkrun PB by 1 second this morning ...... on a day when I really didn't feel like doing it when I woke up. Go figure .... ???
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 14 May, 2016, 01:38:57 pm
  But I missed the course record by a few seconds :(
No prize for that!    ;D


Went out on the bike this morning @0930. I wasnt thinking about the time, and complettely forgot about parkrun ... whose course I cross about 100m after setting out  :facepalm:

Luckily its about 4.7km in, and the backmarkers were pretty spread out. No incident to report <wipes brow>

[still too injured to be running 5km currently :( ]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 14 May, 2016, 02:02:10 pm
My time is now in (after it looked as if the parkrun website was taking a hammering; 503 errors all over the place).
Best time this year. In fact, best time since June last year. So feeling pretty happy about that.  :smug:
Shame I'll miss the next two weeks.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 21 May, 2016, 02:07:18 am
I did Varsity Lakes ParkRun this morning and it happened to be their 3rd anniversary run, which meant bonus cake at 7.30am :thumbsup:. (The runs here start at 7am to avoid the heat.)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ci8ScsMVEAAemCu.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 25 May, 2016, 09:14:16 pm
I'm not a runner. I'm not built for running. Audax is easy even when carrying a bit of extra weight.

But somehow I've got in to running over the last couple of years.

I started off with a BMI of 29.

A few runs around the neighbourhood became a parkrun.
A few parkruns became bigger and bigger loops.
The loops became a partial commute (finished off by Boris bike).
The partial commutes became a full run commute (11.5k).
The full run commute became an extended run commute.
The long runs got longer.
The extended run commute became a half marathon extended commute.
The training runs got longer and training became more structured (one long run, one interval session, one tempo run, recovery/easy runs).

At one point I found myself doing 3 laps of Richmond Park. Without a bike. (It's 35km if you go round the outside of the Tamsin trail). Hmm. Ouch.

Suddenly I was at the start line of the Brighton Marathon (still with a BMI of 28, who says running is good for weight loss).

All went well until somewhere between mile 18 and mile 19 at which point my legs had had enough. 4:29:59 went out of the window and I jogged/walked the rest (including that soulless section out past the power station) and finished in 5h07.

But, I was happy and it certainly wasn't a "one and done" feeling at the end, handy as I've got Ironman Wales in 4 months' time.

I'm just coming out of my post marathon dip and a recent 2:06:24 in a local HM (including some fine muddy hilly trails round the back of Wimbledon Common) has me back plodding along. I should hopefully get that down to 1h55 by September which puts me on track for a sub-4h marathon (and therefore a 5h marathon at the end of an Ironman), just need to put the miles in.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 27 May, 2016, 12:02:03 pm
Up to 5km at the moment on my latest Achilles tendonitis recovery
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 28 May, 2016, 03:22:47 am
We've now been in Australia for ten Saturdays and I've managed to fit in nine ParkRuns. Today was South Bank in Brisbane that ran along the river. It was a good course, massive field (450 runners) and some bonus steps on and off a bridge.

Next up is west coast North America where the only ParkRun is San Francisco. I'll have to find some other events to keep my occupied.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 01 June, 2016, 02:36:50 pm
Global Running Day!

(And I'm off on the bike to go to the swimming pool. Bad scheduling...)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 03 August, 2016, 02:00:14 pm
It's all gone quiet on here . . .

I'm improving. I've given up on trying to go for a jog when I get home. Too often MrsC would say "Dinner's ready", or "I have no idea what is for dinner" (which is code for "You had better get in the kitchen and start cooking").
So I'm a lunchtime at work jogger. I can fit in a 20ish jog, a shower and still have time to eat.

Gone from doing 3km at about 6min 30s pace to today managing 4.2km at 5min 18s - the latter pace being my old reasonable longish distance pace back when I was in my 30s. If I can do 4km in 20min I'll be pleased - that is my target to achieve by Sept.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 06 October, 2016, 04:56:23 pm
Hot on using the home rower for the first time last night, got out on my first run outside since May (courtesy of brusing my sacrum at the start of the Tan Hill 600 walking to my bike).  Shortened a previous route to 4.4 miles of which 3.5 are off road.  Went surprisingly quickly but that might be having spent two weeks stuck in Sao Paulo with a national series 800m runner to put my running efforts into place and encourage discipline in gym sessions.  New trail running shoes worked fine.

Curiously - the footpaths in this 'vital open space' that the nimbys don't want anyone to build on aren't heavily used - so am currently seeking research on whether nettle stings aid performance.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 11 October, 2016, 03:15:50 pm
VLM ballot outcome available online sneakily.

Hit the unsubscribe button from any of the emails you've had from London Marathon and look at the lists you're subscribed to.

If you see "VMLM 2017 unsuccessful notification" then guess the outcome...

No VLM ballot place for me but I've already got a Brighton place so I'll be focusing on that and trying to get the weight down this time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 15 October, 2016, 08:16:09 pm
Now we're back in the UK it's time to think about getting run fit ready for VLM 2017. I've now done two ParkRuns & have pencilled into the diary a list of half marathons for spring 2017.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Oranj on 24 October, 2016, 07:55:13 am
Welcome back αdαmsκι, 26 weeks to London  :thumbsup:

A big fat DNF for me at Abingdon marathon yesterday - I tweaked a hamstring in the week and could feel it tighten up after about 30 minutes so decided not to chance it. I seem to have reasonable form at the moment though, a 1:28:59 at Cricklade half the other week and a decent run in our local XC league, so hopefully this will be just a minor setback.

I've not hung about on here much lately. Although I was doing a fair bit of cycling over the summer (TTs and such), I could feel myself itching to lace up my trainers for the cooler autumn weather.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 24 October, 2016, 10:11:16 am
Aha, running thread is back. I've put my training thread in further and faster, but worth noting that I've been out iny fell shoes and bought some new Road shoes for the dark winter evenings. Also joined Tyne Bridge Harriers with a view to running some cross country races over the winter.

No plans to run a marathon, but might have a crack at 5K in the spring and do some 800s with the masters track lads.

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Oranj on 24 October, 2016, 12:44:51 pm
Sounds good Mike. I didn't find the transition back to cycling too difficult in April - the fitness seemed to carry over quite a bit. I'm wondering whether I'll bother next year, I'm really enjoying just heading out the door for a run every day.

I joined my local athletics club a few years ago for the free cross country league races through the winter, but have also started training with their masters track group this summer. Definitely good motivation - they are too fast for me to even contemplate getting in the team for road relays and so on! I think that's going to be a real target for me in the next year, not to be dangling off the back of the "B" group  :o

Training with them definitely helped inspire me to a 19:53 5.24km relay leg in the summer, equivalent to ~18:58 for 5km which I was *very* happy about.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 24 October, 2016, 12:53:28 pm
Yes, I'm interested to know what I can do for 5km at 50. I might do a park run soon to set a start point, but the combination of fitness, age and terrain mean it will be slow.

It seems that sub 20 is OK for V50 and 17 becomes a 'serious' time. Likewise, 800 is a distance I've not run for a long time and would be interesting.  I suspect I'll be hanging off the back of the b group too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Oranj on 24 October, 2016, 03:33:05 pm
Yep, 17 minutes is a serious time for V50. My old college buddy managed it with 17:47 last year at the Inverness 5k road champs (pan flat, up and down the prom, much faster than most parkruns): http://www.srichinmoyraces.org/files/self-transcendence-5k-290415-v2.pdf (http://www.srichinmoyraces.org/files/self-transcendence-5k-290415-v2.pdf) but I doubt I'll be ticking sub-18 soon. I'm off to Inverness for some orienteering and forest bimbling with him this weekend, should be fun if my hamstring holds out.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 24 October, 2016, 04:26:04 pm
Welcome back αdαmsκι, 26 weeks to London  :thumbsup:

More worryingly, 8 days until I restart the weekly track sessions :sick:

I saw from Twitter you'd had to DNF the marathon, although I wasn't sure the reason. Hopefully the hamstring sorts itself quickly.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 24 October, 2016, 04:39:02 pm
Welcome back αdαmsκι, 26 weeks to London  :thumbsup:

More worryingly, 8 days until I restart the weekly track sessions :sick:

I saw from Twitter you'd had to DNF the marathon, although I wasn't sure the reason. Hopefully the hamstring sorts itself quickly.

Apparently we're getting a track in Harrogate - only 30 years late... - sometime in 2017. Meanwhile 1 session of hills each week. Taking it steady at the moment though and trying to build slowly.

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Legs on 25 October, 2016, 12:54:06 pm
Hoping I manage to shake off my chest infection in time to smash out a decent run in my season-ending Roaches Fell Race (http://www.mowcoprunner.com/pages/TheRoaches.aspx) on 13 November.  I didn't get a place at VLM 2017 but that's probably just as well since Junior #2 is due in late March.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Charlie Boy on 27 October, 2016, 09:31:11 pm
No VLM ballot place for me but I've already got a Brighton place so I'll be focusing on that and trying to get the weight down this time.

See you there. We rode a bit of PBP together between Tinteniac and Quedillac on the way out. I remember the downhill after Becherel thinking 'he's pedalling a bit fast going downhill'.  I'd never seen fixed before!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 29 October, 2016, 11:14:51 am
Park Run this morning for the first time in ages. Wanted a faster session and to get in a bit of mental prep for forthcoming cross country season. Happy(ish) with 21:57, but hope there's a lot more to come!

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 29 October, 2016, 04:07:11 pm
Since getting back to the UK I've done four different ParkRuns events, with today being a return to my "home" ParkRun. It was great to see familiar faces again, and it's easier running a known course. (I didn't get lost which is always a bonus!). My ParkRun times have decreased week by week over the past four events, probably helped because I've done over 50km of running in the past week.  Still doesn't mean I'm looking forward to the track session on Tuesday evening.

However, all of that was overshadowed by Pippa smashing her ParkRun PB by nearly 2 minutes & 45 seconds.  Clearly cycle touring has done her good :thumbsup:.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 29 October, 2016, 05:43:42 pm
Since getting back to the UK I've done four different ParkRuns events, with today being a return to my "home" ParkRun. It was great to see familiar faces again, and it's easier running a known course. (I didn't get lost which is always a bonus!). My ParkRun times have decreased week by week over the past four events, probably helped because I've done over 50km of running in the past week.  Still doesn't mean I'm looking forward to the track session on Tuesday evening.

However, all of that was overshadowed by Pippa smashing her ParkRun PB by nearly 2 minutes & 45 seconds.  Clearly cycle touring has done her good :thumbsup:.

Well done Pippa!! Impressive gain.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 29 October, 2016, 07:20:45 pm
Let's see her knock another 2'45 off next week!
:P
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Pippa on 29 October, 2016, 10:41:35 pm
Not gonna happen. Certainly not next week and that sort of improvement would put me at sub 26 minutes, which I doubt I will ever hit.

TBF - the improvement comes because I'm a really slow runner anyway (my last PB was just shy of 31 minutes for 5km) so improving on that was always possible. It never happened previously as I never really trained properly (if at all). I haven't this time either (I've barely run most of this year) BUT, I have lost at least 15kg from that last attempt, so I suspect the gain is mostly from that. The question now is how much more can I improve through training. I very much doubt I'll shift any more weight; in fact I will have to be very careful to not put any on.

My aim has always been to run a 30 minute 5km so to hit a smidge above 28 minutes this morning makes me very happy, but it has also kind of reset the bar; now I want more, but how much more, who knows. Maybe 26 minutes? Seems like a tough ask though. I would love to run a sub 1 hour 10km.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 30 October, 2016, 12:01:59 am
Not gonna happen. Certainly not next week and that sort of improvement would put me at sub 26 minutes, which I doubt I will ever hit.

TBF - the improvement comes because I'm a really slow runner anyway (my last PB was just shy of 31 minutes for 5km) so improving on that was always possible. It never happened previously as I never really trained properly (if at all). I haven't this time either (I've barely run most of this year) BUT, I have lost at least 15kg from that last attempt, so I suspect the gain is mostly from that. The question now is how much more can I improve through training. I very much doubt I'll shift any more weight; in fact I will have to be very careful to not put any on.

My aim has always been to run a 30 minute 5km so to hit a smidge above 28 minutes this morning makes me very happy, but it has also kind of reset the bar; now I want more, but how much more, who knows. Maybe 26 minutes? Seems like a tough ask though. I would love to run a sub 1 hour 10km.

Do some running and you may be surprised at what you can manage. Probably need to wear different shoes than in your avatar though;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 01 November, 2016, 10:25:28 am
Took the advantage of having to work from home today (washing machine repair) to set up family breakfast and head out for a run (there is one good thing about the clocks going back - I didn't need a head torch at 6.45am.  Explored a new route down the Loddon valley, 9.6 miles, with 8 miles off road and the rest on tarmac paths or tiny going nowhere lanes.  One section has a good 'nettle' test so legs are stinging a little bit, but otherwise OK, so hopeful for further progress going into the winter.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 05 November, 2016, 05:14:22 pm
Let's see her knock another 2'45 off next week!
:P

Unsurprisingly she didn't manage that, but still improved upon last week  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 08 November, 2016, 12:40:45 pm
From the centre of Basel to Bettingen, most of the way up to Sankt Chrichrona today.  Would have liked to have carried on to the top but didn't have enough time, so settled for 8.6 miles.  Probably a good thing as the groin niggle that surfaced at the weekend gardening needs a bit of TLC.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 09 November, 2016, 11:13:07 am
I entered the VLM ballot whenever it was (for the 4th ish time) not even in hope let alone expectation.  Imagine my surprise when the 'you have a place magazine' dropped through the letter box a few weeks ago.

I'm very excited about the opportunity but my personal circumstances are very different from my last marathon Brighton 2015) as I now have a young son and do my best to contribute at home.  All in all, I have not run since Nov last year and only made 3 or 4 relatively short bike trips - much to the despair of Audax Club Portsmouth.

I'm not part of a running club and have always been able to motivate myself through a 4 to 5 run per week schedule resulting in 4h20min ish times.  Schedule consisting of interval, tempo, long run with a recovery run or two.

I've got the trainers back on and have made 3no. 3 mile gentle jogs over the last 10 days.  The body didn't complain too much.

I reckon if I can get to somewhere near 8 miles by Christmas then I'll be in a place to start training proper in January.  I'd really like to give my best to the training so I enjoy the event as much as possible but need to be realistic that my spare time is much reduced.

Any tips on speeding up to get nearer the 4hr holy grail?  Is VLM the place to achieve a PB?  Is it just a matter of working at the interval session?

I've not used HRM for training in the past but hope to this time subject to Santa...

Anyone else in through the ballot?

Cheers

Blazer
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 09 November, 2016, 10:56:25 pm
Looked at my run schedule for my first marathon in 2013, I'd got up to 12 miles at Christmas, but then didn't run at all in January due to lurgy, work, travel, etc.  So on that grounds 8 miles seems like a fair target.  Was back up to half marathon distance by mid February.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 13 November, 2016, 10:00:43 pm
I entered the VLM ballot whenever it was (for the 4th ish time) not even in hope let alone expectation.  Imagine my surprise when the 'you have a place magazine' dropped through the letter box a few weeks ago.

I'm very excited about the opportunity but my personal circumstances are very different from my last marathon Brighton 2015) as I now have a young son and do my best to contribute at home.  All in all, I have not run since Nov last year and only made 3 or 4 relatively short bike trips - much to the despair of Audax Club Portsmouth.

I'm not part of a running club and have always been able to motivate myself through a 4 to 5 run per week schedule resulting in 4h20min ish times.  Schedule consisting of interval, tempo, long run with a recovery run or two.

I've got the trainers back on and have made 3no. 3 mile gentle jogs over the last 10 days.  The body didn't complain too much.

I reckon if I can get to somewhere near 8 miles by Christmas then I'll be in a place to start training proper in January.  I'd really like to give my best to the training so I enjoy the event as much as possible but need to be realistic that my spare time is much reduced.

Any tips on speeding up to get nearer the 4hr holy grail?  Is VLM the place to achieve a PB?  Is it just a matter of working at the interval session?

I've not used HRM for training in the past but hope to this time subject to Santa...

Anyone else in through the ballot?

Cheers

Blazer


Hi Blazer

Sorry for being slow replying.

I'm afraid there is no substitute for interval work if you want to speed up, but what and how much will depend on your current fitness/capacity and your core strengths, as well as the event your training for.  From what you say, I'd just keep running regularly until Christmas and try to throw in the odd burst or fartlek session once a week. See how quickly you are recovering from each session then, as that's the key.

I know a chap who moved up to Ultra as he didn't have the time to do the amount of interval training he needed to perform as he wanted at the short marathon!

As I always (fail to) remind myself - don't try to progress too quickly and remember that total load includes work and family as well as running.

Most of all enjoy. I've huge respect for anyone who takes on on.

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Legs on 14 November, 2016, 09:16:00 am
Hoping I manage to shake off my chest infection in time to smash out a decent run in my season-ending Roaches Fell Race (http://www.mowcoprunner.com/pages/TheRoaches.aspx) on 13 November.  I didn't get a place at VLM 2017 but that's probably just as well since Junior #2 is due in late March.
Well, the chest infection is on the wane and I didn't really smash it out as such, but I struggled round and clocked 3:04 for the 15-and-a-bit very muddy, very slippery miles, the last 11 of which with a nice twisted ankle and matching big-toe blisters.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Oranj on 14 November, 2016, 01:30:41 pm
Any tips on speeding up to get nearer the 4hr holy grail?  Is VLM the place to achieve a PB?  Is it just a matter of working at the interval session?

I think I'd disagree with Mike about intervals - there isn't really any point in them until you've worked the endurance aspect a bit more than just running 4 or 5 times a week with a maximum of 8 miles in a single run. Maybe a tempo session once a week, but that's all. YMMV, of course.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Legs on 14 November, 2016, 03:58:03 pm
Without wanting to risk stating the obvious, you don't need to be able to run 7-minute miles to crack out 4 hours - consistent 9-min miles will do it handsomely if you have the endurance to not fade.  Runner's World's race predictor indicates 5k / 10k / HM times of 25:01 / 52:10 / 1:55:07 to be consistent with a 4hr marathon time.  As an endurance cyclist you're probably better-positioned to perform relatively better over longer distances, so don't be put off if you're not quite hitting these levels.  Try to include a long run of 13+ miles once a fortnight in the coming months; building up to about 22 miles, a month before the big day.  Use the long runs to get used to your fuelling and drinking strategy!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 14 November, 2016, 04:55:26 pm
Any tips on speeding up to get nearer the 4hr holy grail?  Is VLM the place to achieve a PB?  Is it just a matter of working at the interval session?

I think I'd disagree with Mike about intervals - there isn't really any point in them until you've worked the endurance aspect a bit more than just running 4 or 5 times a week with a maximum of 8 miles in a single run. Maybe a tempo session once a week, but that's all. YMMV, of course.

Probably not as far apart as all that. I wasn't suggesting intervals before Christmas, and even then dependent on recovery.

As Legs says, a few long runs too, although I agree that I don't like to do the more than once per fortnight.

Probably my oreference for shorter events is coming through - the mantra was 'never go far from speed'

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 18 November, 2016, 10:58:09 am
Tested out a new route using footpaths around Rotherwick.  A couple of gloopy patches which even the trail shoes struggled with but well way marked paths, touch of frost, beautiful late autumn colours.  12.5 miles slightly slower than I would have liked but wanted to keep it steady after a midweek lurgy.   Am really enjoying the running at the moment, probably because I am not ramping up the distance as quickly as in past build-ups.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 20 November, 2016, 12:37:36 pm
Nice early run through the mud today. Not far, but before family up, then off to Leeds with t'bairn for music.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 23 November, 2016, 09:29:50 pm
Longest run of the winter so far.  Am working in Basel with a colleague who does an Ironman a year, so I showed him the delights of the hill up to Schonmatt, 330m above the city centre.  Normally I wait for a tram at Elektra Birseck but as we were still going well, we ran back, and by the time I'd got to my hotel on the banks of the Rhine, had clocked 16 miles.  Only time for a McDonalds when I got back as the restaurants don't to stay open late, but at least that helped with the expenses budget.  Going a little slower than usual meant that I had plenty in the tank at the end, which is encouraging for some planned longer runs over Christmas.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 26 November, 2016, 05:59:05 pm
1St cross country race in 22 years. Seem to have forgotten how to race, but good hard fun non the less. Training Peaks suggests a new HR threshhold and I certainly spent plenty of time over 170 and peaked at 185 - so much for 220 minus age (50)!

Also seem to have brought half the mud in County Durham home on my shoes.

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 26 November, 2016, 06:01:34 pm
8 days until I restart the weekly track sessions :sick:

It appears the track sessions, whilst awful at the time, are working because this morning I ran my fastest ParkRun since May 2015.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Oranj on 28 November, 2016, 08:01:49 pm
Nice. I've played it safe/steady with the hamstring although I managed a few hill reps off the back of the club masters group the other evening. Today was my first double run day since I strained it 6 weeks ago.

Back in the game  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 01 December, 2016, 11:02:51 am
Took advantage of the frosty weather (-4C) overnight to do my favourite 17 mile cross country route and knocked off 2 minutes from my previous best time because the horrible slog up through the muddy woods was crisp and hard and didn't suck out all the life out of my legs for the mostly downhill return leg.   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 04 December, 2016, 07:26:44 pm
I've just submitted my application for London 2017 :thumbsup:.

Today was my first double run day since I strained it 6 weeks ago.

How do you find doing the double runs? Normally I walk to walk & then run home (anything from 3km to over 20km).  I'm pondering running to work once or twice a week come the New Year & also running home.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Oranj on 05 December, 2016, 11:19:31 am
Not too bad. I started them last winter when I was wanting to increase my mileage over the winter before, to +100km/week, and found myself doing a medium-long run almost every day. At first I'd be tired for the second run of the day and slow, but as the year has gone on I've learnt to pace that morning run a bit better and for the evening run I'm still tired, but nice and loose and faster. I've usually been doing 7-9km for each run, sometimes with more emphasis on the evening run leaving the morning one as just a loosener.

As a bonus, you get a reminder to stretch twice a day, and your form remains good for the entire day's running, rather than dropping as it might do towards the end of a longer run.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 08 December, 2016, 07:50:24 pm
Sounds like one short step from run-walking.    :hand:    #mtfu
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 17 December, 2016, 02:28:52 pm
Not too bad. <snip>

Thanks. I'll have to give it a go come January.  Easy 4 or 5 km run to work in the morning, followed by a more representative run in the evening. I'll just need to figure out which days will be best and then get into a routine.

On a different note, this morning I ran what may have been my last ParkRun of 2016 and for the first time this year scrapped into the magic sub 17 barrier.  The track sessions are clearly making me faster; the next step is to start upping the distance ready for the first half marathon on the season at Watford in early February.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: swiss hat on 14 January, 2017, 11:00:35 am
Just getting back into some short, easy pace runs after 3 months out with an achilles problem. It's definitely an injury that needs to be treated with rest/stretching/physio and not one that can be run through. Great to be running on the Thames towpath and in Richmond Park again. Time to build up some fitness again hopefully.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 15 January, 2017, 04:38:14 pm
The treadmill is 200 years old today*!

One history says that they were developed to punish Oscar Wilde and his criminal ilke - an exercise was needed with no actual purpose (to make them truly sorry for their crimes). The prisoner was a in a sealed room allowing no contact with other prisoners/humans; with the belt running the length of the floor, appearing thru one wall, disappearing thru another.


Some would say that the experience on a modern gym treadmill isn't a lot nicer ..




*well, in 2017 anyway ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 16 January, 2017, 02:27:04 pm
Well it's not quite going to plan but I'm running!

November and December were pretty much wiped out with an intermittent head cold thing so I only managed consecutive 6 miles on two occasions and didn't push up to 10 miles.

January has been partially thwarted by illness but I'm up to 9 miles.  Current plan is a long run, a tempo run (with a target speed but more importantly do the distance) and intervals.  I'm ditching my usual interval schedule and focussing on 400m reps for the first few weeks.  Time will tell.

I may make the start line for London yet.

The running has also helped to motivate me back on the bike and I've made it to the pub on the last 3 Portsmouth Wednesday Night Rides.  Might even target the national 400 as I really enjoyed the Brevet Cymru a couple of years ago.

Cheers

Blazer
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 16 January, 2017, 04:36:28 pm
having another go at running because my sore arm means I cant row or bike for too long.   This time, to try and avoid injury (am > 110kg) I'm using run / walk and not running more than 5 minutes without a 1 minute walk.  I did an hour on thursday with no issues afterwards so I'm going to stick with it and see.... 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 20 January, 2017, 04:16:04 pm
No VLM ballot place for me but I've already got a Brighton place so I'll be focusing on that and trying to get the weight down this time.

See you there. We rode a bit of PBP together between Tinteniac and Quedillac on the way out. I remember the downhill after Becherel thinking 'he's pedalling a bit fast going downhill'.  I'd never seen fixed before!

Excellent, I do remember riding with you and especially the motivational drawing you had on your routesheet holder... "Allez daddy!"

trying to get the weight down this time.

Ha. Hahahaha. Will I ever learn?

I was 85kg (about the same as PBP'11) when I did Brighton last year, and that still felt too heavy for me (I was 76kg at LEL'09). Happily on track at ~2:20 through halfway but then legs emptied as I turned right back onto Kingsway (~19 miles) and walked most of the soulless power station section, then walk-jogged (900m jog, 100m walk) the last 5k along the seafront.

I'm 92kg right now with 11 weeks to go and before this week I had done a total of 20km of proper running since September 2016.

My main motivation is that my daughter is now old enough to do the Mini-Mile on the Saturday. If I pull out of the marathon then she'll be gutted she can't do her race.

Parkrun tomorrow and a cheeky 10km on Sunday will put me at 32km for the week so I should be heading in the right direction, just need to avoid overcompensating with food and the weight should start to go down but I doubt I'll get anywhere near 85kg. Ho hum.

Despite all of this I'm looking forward to doing it again as having done it once takes away a lot of the fear/mystery/panic. It's a nice course (apart from the 5k power station section), great support (apart from the 5k power station section) and what few hills there are are in the first 20k.

Also staying Sat/Sun night (rather than Fri/Sat) thanks to the Easter holidays. Getting one of the few trains back to London on the Sunday a couple of hours after finishing wasn't the most pleasant experience.

I look forward to the long runs along the Thames path and the horror that was 3 laps of Richmond Park (where my legs also emptied at 19 miles).

2018 I want to be sub-80kg and sub-4h.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 21 January, 2017, 01:40:16 pm
During December I managed two 90km weeks, which compares to the 55km of running I've done during the whole of 2017.  Being ill sucks, but after 2½ weeks of feeling rubbish I'm at least appear to be heading in the right direction. Now to get back to the fitness I had pre-Christmas, which involved doing ParkRun a minute faster than I managed this morning.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 22 January, 2017, 11:04:37 pm
42km this week.

Just need to be able to do that in one run...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 January, 2017, 08:19:42 am
26km last week, not too bad for starting again.

This time last year I did my biggest week of 55k (16k, 11.7k, 9k intervals, 19k). No way I'll be up for that yet. Will hopefully get to 35km though, depends how much I push out the long run (only running ~12k as longest so far this year as that's my run commute).

[EDIT] Brighton MiniMile entries now open. My 7yo is very excited at the prospect. Just need to work on her pacing...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 30 January, 2017, 09:32:02 pm
So on that grounds 8 miles seems like a fair target.  Was back up to half marathon distance by mid February.

I'm up to 12 miles now with the half marathon distance (well 14 miles) on the plan for next Sunday.

Surprisingly the legs feel like they are coming back.  I saw a programme somewhere that suggested running the middle/second third of the long run at marathon pace so I tried that on the 12 mile run and survived / enjoyed it.

Tempo runs at 9 min/miles is feeling managable.

Nudged the intervals to 10 x 500m with 1 minute recovery's last week and felt OK.

Time will tell  but going OK ATM,

Cheers

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 02 February, 2017, 02:52:21 pm
Can I run every day in Feb without getting injured? 

So far, yes.  Will report back in a week!

(only about 30-40 minutes most days, quite slowly, with walking breaks.  Just trying to build some kind of base)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Legs on 02 February, 2017, 03:12:55 pm
Haven't been out for over a week because I was told to take a week off vigorous exercise after my eye surgery.  Itching to get out tomorrow morning before work - Auntie's weather suggests it's going to be sunny in Uttoxeter first thing, so I'll get in a 10k razz to Marchington and back, and maybe a few laps of the racecourse.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 05 February, 2017, 06:05:14 pm
Way behind last year's marathon training and a busy social life destroyed much of the planned runs this week (long runs with a hangover are no fun), still I managed 33.5km including a long run (longest so far this time round) of 15km, along with 1h40m of 5-a-side football. According to last year's plan I should be doing long runs of 23km by now, and the next two weekends are scuppered by being away (it being half term). Time to rethink that plan...

Weight still static but I'm hopefully nearing the end of the 4 week plateau I have when I start to up the exercise, trousers certainly seem looser around the waist week on week. Hoping for accelerated weight loss in the 9 weeks to go, but realistically looking at only getting rid of 4kg (doubling that loss would be really nice...)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Legs on 06 February, 2017, 11:45:54 am
Haven't been out for over a week because I was told to take a week off vigorous exercise after my eye surgery.  Itching to get out tomorrow morning before work - Auntie's weather suggests it's going to be sunny in Uttoxeter first thing, so I'll get in a 10k razz to Marchington and back, and maybe a few laps of the racecourse.  :thumbsup:
Didn't manage the racecourse laps - I was running a bit late for work - but enjoyed the trek up and down (and up and down) the appropriately-named Moisty Lane.
https://www.strava.com/activities/856335659 (https://www.strava.com/activities/856335659)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 06 February, 2017, 07:56:10 pm
From the station past the racetrack and on to Marchington is part of my "standard" 100k flattish ride.  The hill just after the golf course always catches me but then the views on Moisty lane are great.  The mess they made with the Solar panel farm really made it unpleasant for a while though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Legs on 07 February, 2017, 01:57:08 pm
The hill just after the golf course always catches me ...
Me too!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 09 February, 2017, 12:05:18 pm
48km in the last 7 days and legs feel great, tomorrow is rest (apart from cycle ride home) but have parkrun on Saturday morning and then I'm off for half term (including 4 days skiing).

Feeling a lot more confident about upcoming marathon (8 weeks!) than I was a few weeks ago, surprising how quickly I've slotted straight back into the training.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 16 February, 2017, 08:15:32 am
Can I run every day in Feb without getting injured? 

So far, yes.  Will report back in a week!

(only about 30-40 minutes most days, quite slowly, with walking breaks.  Just trying to build some kind of base)

still going.. have taken 1 day off each week, when I've been commuting too early and out too late to get a run in, but it's going quite well! No injuries yet.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 25 February, 2017, 04:45:49 pm
First parkrun since, good grief, November.
The time was 'not bad considering' and part of the considering was that I'd walked/jogged there and back which doubles the distance and adds 150m of climb before the start of the parkrun itself.
It was good to be back but I am suffering a bit now!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 02 March, 2017, 09:29:18 am
Can I run every day in Feb without getting injured? 

So far, yes.  Will report back in a week!

(only about 30-40 minutes most days, quite slowly, with walking breaks.  Just trying to build some kind of base)

still going.. have taken 1 day off each week, when I've been commuting too early and out too late to get a run in, but it's going quite well! No injuries yet.

done.  No injuries, distance up to 7 - 10k per run, pace is improving too.  Stuck with walk / run, in a 5/1 ratio and it seems to work.

plan now is to cut it down to 3 runs / week and try and gradually get quicker and longer (and add in some weights and rowing)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 02 March, 2017, 10:51:52 am
Good work!

For getting faster I'd recommend one session of intervals a week (to replace one of your normal runs).

I picked a relatively flat loop near me (1km away so I could jog there/back as warm up and cool down). The loop itself was about 1km long and didn't involve crossing roads so I never had to stop/wait. And I used my Garmin (Forerunner 920xt) to tell me what to do since I can program it with exact workouts (e.g. warm up until lap button pressed, then do 1km at 5:45/km, 90s recovery, repeat last two steps 8 times, cool down until lap button pressed) - once I press the lap button to finish the warm up it shouts at me what to do and tells me if my pace is too slow/fast, no more button presses are required until I finish the cool down by arriving back home.

Here's an example: https://www.strava.com/activities/505300803
[EDIT] Slightly better on Garmin Connect: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1068148304

I used 3 different interval lengths, just rotate through them and increase the number of intervals by one each time (see order below):-

800m: 6 x 800m building up to 10 x 800m. 90s recovery (walk) in between each. Pace is current 5k pace (which I got from doing Parkrun).
1000m: 5 x 1km building up to 8 x 1km. 100s recovery (walk) in between each. Pace is 10k pace or slightly quicker than threshold (*).
1600m: 4 x mile building up to 6 x mile. 120s recovery (walk) in between each. Pace is 10k pace or slightly quicker than threshold (*).

* I used the McMillan pace calculator (https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/) to get the exact paces based on my 5k times. With a 26:16 parkrun I was using 5:15/km for the 800m intervals and 5:34/km for the 1km/1mile intervals. When my 5k went down to 24:16 these intervals really started to hurt!

As your speed improves you need to adjust these paces appropriately. Either do a regular timed run (e.g. parkrun) or keep an eye on the HR during the intervals, if your HRmax for a certain set of intervals begins to drop then it may be time to up the pace. (e.g. Greg LeMond's  "It doesn't get any easier, you just get faster.")

The distances start off lowish (~5km, plus some walking, plus 1km of jogging at each of the start/end) but soon build up to each being 10-11km. The rough order I built up over the 12 weeks was:-

6 x 800m = 4.8km
5 x 1km = 5km
7 x 800m = 5.6km
6 x 1km = 6km
8 x 800m = 6.4km
4 x 1600m = 6.4km
7 x 1km = 7km
9 x 800m = 7.2km
8 x 1km = 8km
5 x 1600m = 8km
10 x 800m = 8km
6 x 1600m = 9.6km

As with intervals on the bike, the first few may seem easy, but by the last one you'll be in a world of fun. I kind of enjoyed the 10x800m but 6x1600m was not fun. No need to thank me!

I need to get back into them, although it's only ~5 weeks until the marathon so they're not really going to do much. Oops.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 03 March, 2017, 04:05:24 pm
January continued well for me and February delivered 110 miles and I'm pretty much on plan.

This morning's run was a bu@@er!  Feeling a bit under the weather but had a 13 mile run to do to end the week.  Got round but have tweaked the tendon on the top of my foot.  I think I can afford a few days until the next run, or rather I think I'm going to have to take a few days to let it calm down.

In other news, I've entered the National 400.  I really enjoyed the BC a few years ago so am looking forward to a jaunt across Wales and back.

Cheers

Blazer
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 05 March, 2017, 04:56:14 pm
I did the Milton Keynes Festival of Running 20 mile race this morning.  When I entered in late 2016 the plan was to see if I could dip under 2 hours. However, I have only really managed two decent weeks of training in 2017 having lost January & first few weeks of February to a (viral?) infection. Nevermind, after the glorious spring like weather at ParkRun on Saturday I was looking forward to the race and hoping for sub 2:10.

The weather at 9.30am in Milton Keynes was not spring like. Cold, windy and raining. Everyone was muttering about what to wear. I felt silly for not having my arm warmers, but at least I had some gloves, which stayed on for the first quarter of the race.

We were told before we set off some of the underpasses may be damp. After 1½ miles we discovered that was an euphemism for totally flooded and had to run through thigh deep water. Oh well, only another 18½ miles to go with trainers full of water. On the bright side there was now no point avoiding any of the puddles.

The first 15 miles I ran with another guy who was also targeting sub 2:10, which we were on course to do.  He pushed on and I couldn't keep up, a lack of miles in my legs was starting to tell. However I went through 18 miles still 30 seconds up and then lost a load of time fighting into a headwind on the final climbs. I wasn't the only person to suffer and there were people walking because of the wind. In the end I finished just outside the 2:10 target.

Now time to recover, get some more mile in this week and then it's the Dartford half next Sunday. That'll seem short after the 20 miles today.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Legs on 06 March, 2017, 09:28:22 am
I did the Milton Keynes Festival of Runnung 20 mile race this morning....

Now time to recover, get some more mile in this week and then it's the Dartford half next Sunday. That'll seem short after the 20 miles today.

Good work, Adam!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 06 March, 2017, 07:48:27 pm
Moved my long run to today as I was busy yesterday and off work today. A half-marathon from Putney down to and through Richmond Park (Roehampton Gate to Richmond Gate), down Richmond Hill to the Thames Path and then next to the river all the way back to Putney. 2h17 although HR was higher than I'd wanted.

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1606511513

Did not enjoy running it, but I enjoy having run it.

4 and a bit weeks to Brighton. Have a 24 km long run this weekend and then the 3 laps of Richmond Park (35km) nightmare the weekend after that. Then the taper has two long runs of 19km and 16km.

Going to be 4kg heavier than last year, with less training. Hoping to beat last years' time though, if only by 7 and a bit minutes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 07 March, 2017, 11:47:44 am
From the Novice Running thread (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=87293.50) as I don't want derail that thread.

1. I think my duration increase went something along the lines of: 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 33, 36, 39, 42, 46, 50, 55, 60.

Are those weekly miles totals or KMs?

Durations (minutes). They're how I interpreted a maximum weekly 10% increase.

What were your 5k times like at 83 and 92kgs?   I'm at 96 kgs currently (down from 120). Be interesting to know how much quicker a further 10kgs would equate to.

Don't have a 5k time for 83kg but I did do a comfortable HM in 2h06 at 83kg. From my logs of 5k times:-

92kg: 28m45
86kg: 24m24

But I was less fit at that 92kg as it was at the start of my running. I'm close to 92kg now and I can probably do a 27m 5k, my corresponding 86kg time would probably be faster too.

If you fill in your run time, distance and weight here: http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Running_Calculator

then one of the sections (6.2 Weight Adjusted Race Times) estimates your performance at different weights.

For my 86kg 24m24 5k it gives me 23m13 at 81kg.

It only does 5kg less to 5kg more at a time, but you can put the time/weight from the 5kg less result back in and get a time for 10kg less, repeat etc all the way to your desired weight.

Putting 81kg 23m13 5k it gives me 22m00 at 76kg, so a sub 22 5k is my next major target given that's my maximum ideal weight (76kg is BMI=25 for me, last seen in 2009 just before fatherhood).

The more overweight you are the less accurate the predictions are for the longer runs as the extra bulk you're carrying around takes its toll. I'd track reasonably well on the progress of 5k and 10k improvements but I could never get close to the HM times suggested based on my weight and 5k time. Marathon even less so (although only a single data point).

I liked the fellrnr calculator results though as it gave me hope that by losing the weight I'd get considerably faster and this was backed up by my decreasing run times as I lost weight. Shame I put all of the weight back on.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on 07 March, 2017, 11:53:08 am
From the Novice Running thread (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=87293.50) as I don't want derail that thread.

1. I think my duration increase went something along the lines of: 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 33, 36, 39, 42, 46, 50, 55, 60.

Are those weekly miles totals or KMs?

Durations (minutes). They're how I interpreted a maximum weekly 10% increase.

What were your 5k times like at 83 and 92kgs?   I'm at 96 kgs currently (down from 120). Be interesting to know how much quicker a further 10kgs would equate to.

Don't have a 5k time for 83kg but I did do a comfortable HM in 2h06 at 83kg. From my logs of 5k times:-

92kg: 28m45
86kg: 24m24

But I was less fit at that 92kg as it was at the start of my running. I'm close to 92kg now and I can probably do a 27m 5k, my corresponding 86kg time would probably be faster too.

If you fill in your run time, distance and weight here: http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Running_Calculator

then one of the sections (6.2 Weight Adjusted Race Times) estimates your performance at different weights.

For my 86kg 24m24 5k it gives me 23m13 at 81kg.

It only does 5kg less to 5kg more at a time, but you can put the time/weight from the 5kg less result back in and get a time for 10kg less, repeat etc all the way to your desired weight.

Putting 81kg 23m13 5k it gives me 22m00 at 76kg, so a sub 22 5k is my next major target given that's my maximum ideal weight (76kg is BMI=25 for me, last seen in 2009 just before fatherhood).

The more overweight you are the less accurate the predictions are for the longer runs as the extra bulk you're carrying around takes its toll. I'd track reasonably well on the progress of 5k and 10k improvements but I could never get close to the HM times suggested based on my weight and 5k time. Marathon even less so (although only a single data point).

I liked the fellrnr calculator results though as it gave me hope that by losing the weight I'd get considerably faster and this was backed up by my decreasing run times as I lost weight.

This is great, thanks.

I have entered Abingdon marathon which is very local to me and pancake flat.   Gives me a solid 7 months to train.   Its a marathon that seems to be favored by club runners for PBs (not many costumes about!) so there is a good chance I will be right at the back.  While this is fine, there is also a 5 hour limit in place.   

The pacing guide you linked to seems to have me running a 4.27 marathon currently which is encouraging.   I would hope to be at around 80-85kgs when I start so that gives me much more wiggle room..... just need to lose another 10-15kgs to get there now.

I haven't really ever fully gone at a 5k yet so I am not really sure what I am capable of.   I am now able to run 3 x 8 min intervals at 12.5mph on the treadmill ...once I am more confident running at pace, on road, without breaking I think I will go and have a go at our local park run for some timed efforts

I could do with a garmin watch too for on road intervals but at the moment im happy doing those on the more forgiving surface of the treadmill
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 07 March, 2017, 12:51:13 pm
Just be careful with the marathon estimates, it's all too easy to be convinced that you'll be fine based on what a spreadsheet says.

On every long training run up to 30km I was fine. Some of those runs hurt, not many were enjoyable, but I ran every bit of every one of them (up to and including the 29km run).

I went through 30k of my one and only marathon in 3h22 (hoping for sub-4h45) but it all went bang shortly after that. I ended up taking 1h45 for the last 12k as my legs just felt empty.

Funnily enough I had exactly the same problem on last long run 3 weeks out (35km) where my legs went bang at 31km. I resorted to doing 100m walk and 900m jog all the way to the finish.

I'd hoped that the remaining training (and the fact that the marathon was much flatter than many of my training runs) would mean I could push it out to the full 42.2km with a bit of grim determination. Obviously not.

I've got that same 35km run in just under 2 weeks' time. It's going to be make or break for this years' marathon.

There's a reason they say that 20 miles is the halfway point of a marathon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on 07 March, 2017, 01:01:47 pm
Just be careful with the marathon estimates, it's all too easy to be convinced that you'll be fine based on what a spreadsheet says.

On every long training run up to 30km I was fine. Some of those runs hurt, not many were enjoyable, but I ran every bit of every one of them (up to and including the 29km run).

I went through 30k of my one and only marathon in 3h22 (hoping for sub-4h45) but it all went bang shortly after that. I ended up taking 1h45 for the last 12k as my legs just felt empty.

Funnily enough I had exactly the same problem on last long run 3 weeks out (35km) where my legs went bang at 31km. I resorted to doing 100m walk and 900m jog all the way to the finish.

I'd hoped that the remaining training (and the fact that the marathon was much flatter than many of my training runs) would mean I could push it out to the full 42.2km with a bit of grim determination. Obviously not.

I've got that same 35km run in just under 2 weeks' time. It's going to be make or break for this years' marathon.

There's a reason they say that 20 miles is the halfway point of a marathon.

Thanks - yes this makes sense.  I think my brain gets ahead of itself with running, I am used to 8 hour plus efforts on a bike .... its easy to assume you can just keep going on foot too.  I know that is not true as on my weekly long run I am only too aware when I start to get close to adding on the 10% from the week before.   

As I have a good amount of time to train Im wondering if it might be prudent to actually aim at some 20+ mile runs in training enough time out from October to allow me to recover, rebuild and taper.   Most marathon plans only have you going up to 20 miles once or twice but none seem to suggest going over it.    I guess I need to read more on that (I think it would largely be a mental benefit)- my feeling is as its my first time its probably best to build up to one marathon rather than having to recover from one in training then go again for the real thing?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 07 March, 2017, 03:31:04 pm
I'd look for a training plan that fits most closely with your time limits (7 months) rather than trying to adapt a shorter one to do more of what you think may be necessary. Plenty of the intermediate plans start on the assumption that you can already do several 10km runs a week so they don't spend the first 6 weeks or so building up to that point. The periodisation and various base/build/peak/taper phases that most plans are built upon are easily disrupted if the plans are meddled with.

Running a marathon during training before you've ever run a marathon just seems the wrong way to go about it. Sure if you had 12 months then it would be possible to build to a first marathon as a training run and then recover and rebuild for the real one, but for a first marathon in under 8 months you'd be best focusing on that as the first time you ever attempt full distance. Unless you're mentally strong then a solo marathon attempt could just kill off all enthusiasm for long distance running.

I'm hoping to build up to more frequent long distance runs (extend one of my run commutes to a half marathon every month - I did this for a while and enjoyed it) and keep this going throughout the year but any ideas of doing training marathons is out of the question until I can at least complete one according to plan, ideally in a good time (3:45 or faster for me) and a negative split (i.e. second half faster than the first half).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Legs on 07 March, 2017, 04:06:50 pm
Running a marathon during training before you've ever run a marathon just seems the wrong way to go about it. Sure if you had 12 months then it would be possible to build to a first marathon as a training run and then recover and rebuild for the real one, but for a first marathon in under 8 months you'd be best focusing on that as the first time you ever attempt full distance. Unless you're mentally strong then a solo marathon attempt could just kill off all enthusiasm for long distance running.
Agreed.  For many, one of the big motivating factors in racing a marathon is the fact that it's a 'longest distance run'.  I've only done one marathon, but although my training went up to 24 miles, and I did half a dozen 20+ mile runs, (so I was pretty sure I'd be able to cope with the time on my feet), I didn't do 26.2 until the day itself.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 08 March, 2017, 06:02:43 pm
Did a training session for my daughter this afternoon. She's 7 and doing the mini-mile as part of the Brighton Marathon weekend. She's done a few parkruns with me (at her request, I'd never push her to do it, ~44min PB and, unsurprisingly, terrible pacing) but she/we have no idea what pace to use for a mile.

Bimbled over to Wimbledon Common after school and used my Garmin to pace us for a 12 minute mile out-and-back down Windmill Road. I ran the pace according to the Garmin and told her to focus on keeping it steady and to tell me if it was too fast, she had a blast and we were able to pick up the pace slightly in the last half of the return leg and she was confident enough to put in a sprint finish coming in bang on 11:30 for the mile. Not bad for a first attempt especially given the boggy conditions.

I'll set the pace for a 11min mile next week and keep chipping away as long as she is having fun (although there are glimmers of my belligerence in her). I reckon she will be able to dip under 10 minutes.

(We're definitely not going to trouble the front of the race, the fastest 7/8 year old girl last year ran a 6:36 mile!)

(7:07/km is a gentle recovery run pace for me, certainly needed it after the HM two days ago but I think this will quickly escalate to beyond a recovery run.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on 11 March, 2017, 06:24:24 pm
Had a fun morning with my 5 year old daughter this morning .... we did 10 miles together which is her longest bike ride and my longest run.   Pace was well down due to escorting her across roads and picking her up off the floor a few times but I felt pretty good finishing.   Think I could have comfortable done a half marathon at that pace so I guess that is the next level for my long run to hit.  Great to see the elation she got from struggling but getting around...hopefully she catches the bug now!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 11 March, 2017, 09:51:23 pm
I did the Milton Keynes Festival of Running 20 mile race this morning ...

We were told before we set off some of the underpasses may be damp. After 1½ miles we discovered that was an euphemism for totally flooded and had to run through thigh deep water. Oh well, only another 18½ miles to go with trainers full of water.


I found this image on Twitter of said flood:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6Kq3o4XEAA3hzz.jpg)

After a beautiful Saturday guess what the forecast is for tomorrow when I'm doing the Dartford half?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6qP6fmXUAAVdxm.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 12 March, 2017, 03:40:09 pm
28km today, tried to keep HR under 155 and pace at 6:40/km. The first 21km were fine and then legs started to complain.

Maybe shouldn't have started on an empty stomach having had no breakfast (I did have 3 gels with me though).
Maybe shouldn't have done that having already done 40km of running in the 6 days before.
Maybe shouldn't have had 6 pints yesterday watching the rugby and the football.

Anyway, it's done. Tomorrow will just be a swim (with a pull buoy between my legs to give them a rest). A week with a few runs to keep my legs ticking over and then a 35km long run next Sunday. Then it's the start of glorious taper time.

Ugh.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 12 March, 2017, 07:16:08 pm
I did the Milton Keynes Festival of Running 20 mile race this morning ...

We were told before we set off some of the underpasses may be damp. After 1½ miles we discovered that was an euphemism for totally flooded and had to run through thigh deep water. Oh well, only another 18½ miles to go with trainers full of water.


I found this image on Twitter of said flood:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6Kq3o4XEAA3hzz.jpg)

 ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 16 March, 2017, 08:57:33 pm
Anyway, it's done. Tomorrow will just be a swim (with a pull buoy between my legs to give them a rest). A week with a few runs to keep my legs ticking over and then a 35km long run next Sunday. Then it's the start of glorious taper time.

Feeling ready for your 35 km run on Sunday?

I've managed 100 km over the past seven days, but I really need to do some longer runs. So far I've only done two runs that are over half marathon distance (one was 24.5 km and second was 32 km).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 17 March, 2017, 12:30:46 am
Anyway, it's done. Tomorrow will just be a swim (with a pull buoy between my legs to give them a rest). A week with a few runs to keep my legs ticking over and then a 35km long run next Sunday. Then it's the start of glorious taper time.

Feeling ready for your 35 km run on Sunday?

I've managed 100 km over the past seven days, but I really need to do some longer runs. So far I've only done two runs that are over half marathon distance (one was 24.5 km and second was 32 km).

Nice total, I'm hoping to build up to that kind of weekly distance, but at my weight (BMI of 30) it's probably better I sort out that problem before building up the miles stupidly.

As for the 35km run. Ha. No, but yes, of course I'm looking forward to it. Can't be worse than last year; I aimed for 3 laps of Richmond Park in 4h nice and even, in reality it was 1h12, 1h18, 1h30. On Sunday I'll aim for a more sensible option of 1h20, 1h20, 1h20 without any walking. 30km is where my legs gave in during the marathon last year, I'm hoping to get past that point this year.

I did 7h 12m running in 7 days last week (not including an hour of 5-a-side); only 68km at my sloth like pace (I'm embracing easy runs at close to 7m/km, and some of that was 5-a-side where you generally only go at 4km over an hour).

1h3m so far this week (plus 1h40m of 5-a-side), but I'll do a 50m easy run tomorrow and a gentle parkrun (~30m) on Saturday to bring it up to 2h20m. The 35km run will be ~4h so that will bring me up to close to 6h20m for the week.

It must be something to do with the long distance swimming and long distance cycling background that I think it quite normal to go out and do a half marathon or more as a training run, on an empty stomach, and still have parenting and other such stuff to do the rest of the day.

I can run half marathons more than once a week with ease but haven't worked out how not to fall apart post 30km... (Getting back down to 76kg instead of being 92kg may make a big difference to this...)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 17 March, 2017, 07:28:49 pm
A mixed couple of weeks​ for me.

I rested the toe after the tweak a couple of weeks ago.  Reduced mileage (10km and a bike ride) and then an 18 mile run last Friday.  Very enjoyable at the time but painful to walk over the weekend.

Physio on Monday and most likely injury is to the big toe joint.  Ideally needs 2 weeks rest so into a revised running pattern of no running until today but cross train on the bike.

Completed 19 miles over an extended lunch today and toe feels ok.  Will see how it settles and if needed will opt for cross training on the bike and skip the next long run on physio's advice.  Pleased with today's effort as I've been away within work and driven over 500 miles in last 48 hours.

Resolved to enjoy the day on the VLM and soak up the atmosphere rather than get too concerned on following a specific pace.

Cheers

Blazer
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 18 March, 2017, 10:48:27 am
Running park run as an easy run is hard. So much temptation to pick up the pace and overtake people. Avoiding knocking on the door of the vomitorium at the end (no sprint finish for me) was nice though.

Make or break tomorrow...

[EDIT] Hungover from impromtu post-football drinks with the other parents. Luckily I don't work on Mondays so I can do the run tomorrow. Will be a good test of anti-chafe strategy with the forecast rain...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 20 March, 2017, 05:47:16 pm
Legs go bang at 28km again (and 20m slower to that point than last year, probably something to do with being 6kg heavier than last year). Shortcut the last RP lap to walk the last 4km back to the bike.

Oh well, probably still good enough to get me round Brighton in 5h-5h30.

No more specific event goals until I get my weight down. It's so much easier to run when lighter.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on 21 March, 2017, 03:32:27 pm
I am doing our work 5k this Friday and did a warmup last week - managed 27.30 which is 2minutes quicker than my previous best.   First time I have tried a proper 5k effort - had a pretty horrible stitch after 1,5 miles which slowed down the middle mile.   Hoping to get the same or better this Friday.

I really do struggle with a right hand stitch when I try and run up to over my threshold.   Luckily they never happen on a slower run so it isn't a problem at marathon pace.   Hopefully its just part of getting faster and fitter and they will stop at some point.

Ive tried most suggestions to prevent them and have an effective technique to get rid of them once it happens .... luckily I have no plans to ever run short distance competitively!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 26 March, 2017, 12:04:54 pm
34km run this morning along the towpaths and through the parks of east London.  It's always surprising how it's possible to devise such traffic few routes in such a big city.

The London marathon is 4 weeks ago so time enough to get another 2 or 3 30+ km runs in before then, which I need if I'm to match my performance from 2015.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 06 April, 2017, 04:33:57 pm
Well, nowhere to hide now. Rapidly trying to work out a plan for Brighton on Sunday. I'm 4kg heavier than last year and haven't done as much training, but with slightly better pacing I can knock those annoying 7 minutes off my time and sneak in under 5h.

I'll be starting near the back of the Pink (4:30 to 4:59) corral and aiming for just under 5h.

With this in mind I think I'm going to aim for a 2:20:00 first half (~6m40/km) and a 2:39:59 second half when I have to start doing walk/run at about 30km (after the right turn onto the Kingsway and heading out to Shoreham).

30km in about 3h30 (7min/km) gives me 1h30 for the last 12.2km (7m22/km).

Last time I walked a large portion of the power station bit before I moved to a "walk 100m run 900m" strategy. If I adopt that from 30km then I should be able to keep to that target.

I don't think trying to do a constant 7m05/km (5h pace) would be a good idea with my lack of running stamina, my legs would still complain somewhere a way before the finish and then I'd be pushing to try and keep up.

(I hope to be 15kg lighter in 2018 and aim for sub-4h with a negative split!)

Daughter has her excuses in for her mini-mile race as she slightly twisted her ankle yesterday, but she's confident she'll give it a go on Saturday. I haven't passed down any speed genes to her...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 06 April, 2017, 04:44:46 pm
All the walk/run "experts" are insistent that you should walk early. No different to running the whole way - work out your optimum pace and use it from mile 1 to 26.2.

[I suspect this is still a young science, but that strategy makes sense to me. Of course I'm not attempting any marathons this year, so feel free to ignore!]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 10 April, 2017, 08:27:44 am
@Greenbank: How did you get on?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 10 April, 2017, 02:18:52 pm
First half good ok, second half not so good.

Was feeling ok at half way, a bit behind schedule (~2h31) but that was mostly caused by the absolute chaos at the water stations in the first half (which, little did I know, was just a prelude to the latter stages).

After that the heat got to me and I realised that I'd be running myself into trouble if I chased 4:59:59 so I run-walked (7:40/km pace) for another 6-7k before the ICBA valve blew and I walked almost all of the last third (3h25 for the second half, so 5:56:47 in total, so almost 50 mins slower than last year).

Too hot a day for me at ~92kg compounded by them completely running out of water and/or cups at a load of water stations including 3 consecutive water stations out by Shoreham. They will get a lot of stick for several aspects of the organisation. I'm glad I was already walking by this point.

I've entered again for next year but will only run if I get my weight down to sub 80kg. This should set me up for 4:00 to 4:15 which means I'm less likely to get caught up in the drinks problems, and I might get more of a choice of finishing top sizes (they only had XS or XL by the time I finished).

Would have been interesting to see what my HR was doing given the heat, but I'd left my HR strap in my bag at the hotel and only realised when I was 10 minutes from starting.

Bonus spot and shout out to Dave Hudson who was spectating in his Audax UK hat out by Roedean school. I didn't recognise him first time round but his name popped into my head whilst doing the bit out to Ovingdean and so I was able to shout to him on the way back.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 10 April, 2017, 05:50:13 pm
Having landed back at Gatwick on Sunday from St. Anton I was surprised at the heat and would't have wanted to be running a marathon in those conditions. The lack of water is a major issue. (If Dave Hudson was in charge of catering all would have been great!)  Hopefully next year goes better for you.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Legs on 11 April, 2017, 09:44:15 am
My brother was running Brighton too, and the heat completely got to him.  He was targeting 3:15 (having run 3:36 at Abingdon last year, his first marathon), went through half distance in 1:37, then the doors fell off and he finished in 4:28...

My clubmate Ian ran 2:54, some 15 minutes slower than his London time last year, so it seems like a tough day at the office all round.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 11 April, 2017, 01:37:08 pm
Goals for next 12 months (after two week rest/recovery from marathon):-

* Get back in to a regular routine (swimming, cycling three times a week, 5-a-side twice a week, 11.5km run commute once a week - HM run commute once a month, intervals once a week, parkrun, long slow run on sundays)
* Weight down to under 80kg by Christmas (~36 weeks and ~11kg to lose) and to ~76kg by April 2018 (Brighton Marathon again - sub 4:15, possibly sub 4h)
* A few HM races over the next year, just to keep the long runs interesting and hopefully see some proper race progression
* Parkrun PB sometime around August hopefully (24:24 currently) as the weight comes off. 21:59 as a longer term goal, maybe lower if speed improves lots with weight coming off
* 50 parkruns by April next year (currently on 21) including a few volunteering!
* Run all of the paths/tracks on Putney Heath, and when that's done, Wimbledon Common (introduces some nice variation to the long runs, I can get right down to the Southern end at Barham Road in about 6km from home, so should be easy to pick off un-run bits)

[EDIT] Just plotted a (far from optimal) route (http://www.bikehike.co.uk/mapview.php?lnk=http://www.greenbank.org/misc/putney_heath.gpx) that covers all of the paths on Putney Heath (well, the ones that google maps knows about) and it's only 16km, was expecting much more than that, that's just a long run or two. Guess I'll be moving on to covering Wimbledon Common quite quickly!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 15 April, 2017, 05:14:58 pm
I managed my fastest ParkRun for two years this morning. Now it's time to start tampering for next Sunday. I doubt I'll match my 2015 marathon time but hey ho.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 22 April, 2017, 06:05:13 pm
Here we go:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-B0GbxXsAAZeqY.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 23 April, 2017, 11:26:46 am
adamski is storming along, half-marathon in 1:21:13!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 23 April, 2017, 11:56:58 am
Go Adamski!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Pippa on 23 April, 2017, 12:27:02 pm
I saw him at 16.5 miles and he managed a grimacy smile.

I managed to hand him a gel.

I also got a clap from the crowd for managing to hobble down there with all my broken bits :D

Should be less than 20 mins to go for him now :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 23 April, 2017, 12:29:30 pm
my friend just took 20th place with 2:23:24 :o
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 23 April, 2017, 12:47:24 pm
I saw him at 16.5 miles and he managed a grimacy smile.

I managed to hand him a gel.

I also got a clap from the crowd for managing to hobble down there with all my broken bits :D

Should be less than 20 mins to go for him now :thumbsup:

2:44:36 :thumbsup: - impressive time! congratulations!!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jurek on 23 April, 2017, 01:07:04 pm
2:44:36

Very good!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 23 April, 2017, 03:33:20 pm
2:44:36

Target was sub 2:45 so very happy with that. I had to dig deep.

Right, time to get fit for LEL.  Where's my bike?

Oranj had a great run & looked good when i saw him at the finish.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 23 April, 2017, 03:38:36 pm
2:44:36

Very good!
Apart from that lacklustre 2nd half ...   ;)

I saw him at 16.5 miles and he managed a grimacy smile.

I managed to hand him a gel.

I also got a clap from the crowd for managing to hobble down there with all my broken bits :D
Nice!

Sounds like you both had a brilliant day :)

(Did Adam get his medal from royalty? Or were they only handing them out later on? )
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 23 April, 2017, 03:59:55 pm
(Did Adam get his medal from royalty? Or were they only handing them out later on? )

No. I clearly ran too quickly.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 23 April, 2017, 05:42:17 pm
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1693817600
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 23 April, 2017, 11:29:30 pm
Good run Adamski.  :thumbsup:

I opted for the fuller value approach but still missed the royals.

Slowest of my 4 marathons (4:29:05) but I only had to walk for 100m in the 25th mile, and no huge drop off in pace until i walked.

Enjoyed the day and am very pleased with my efforts despite it being my slowest time.

Funny old game. :)

Hoping to be free for the Isle of Wight randonnee next weekend.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 24 April, 2017, 06:44:12 pm
Spot people you know finishing London Marathon here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p050lp8z/london-marathon-2017-london-marathon-finish-line

I appear at ~13:40 in the top right
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 26 April, 2017, 07:15:30 pm
The Good for Age times (ie run below this time & you don't need to enter via the public ballot) for London Marathon 2018 have been confirmed: https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/how-to-enter/good-age-entry/  So males under 40 need to have a sub 3:05 marathon, or sub 3:45 for females, in order to guarantee an entry to London 2018.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 26 April, 2017, 07:28:58 pm
Just need to shed 1h53m and I'll be good for sub 3:15...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 26 April, 2017, 09:08:57 pm
An extra goal I want in 2017 is for my metric running Eddington number to be at least 21.

An HM (race or extended HM commute) once a month, plus one marathon (already done) and associated long training runs should get me there...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 27 April, 2017, 08:10:29 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-cJEiTWsAEtRcA.jpg)

Taken at Mile 16½
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 30 April, 2017, 11:43:44 am
The London marathon organisation is putting on a closed roads half marathon (The Big Half (http://www.thebighalf.co.uk)) in early March that goes from Tower Bridge to Canary Wharf, back to Tower Bridge & then through Surrey Quays to finish in Greenwich.

Despite it not being for 11 months general entries are already sold out :o I've managed to gain a space because there's some places reserved for residents of the areas the run passes through. So that's the first race for preparation for London Marathon 2018 in the diary.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-pWfZsXcAAY1iE.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 01 May, 2017, 08:50:26 am
CAPTION CONTEST:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-cJEiTWsAEtRcA.jpg)

Taken at Mile 16½

Slightly faster than the Average Joe
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 13 May, 2017, 02:58:41 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_tT74TXUAEO65U.jpg)  :o :smug:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Legs on 20 May, 2017, 03:48:14 pm
Rapid!  I managed 17:45 on a treadmill yesterday morning but was blowing out of my arse...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 22 May, 2017, 10:16:43 am
At the opposite end of the scale. Used Wimbledon Common Half as a long steady run yesterday. 2:20:28, not bad for being so lardy at the moment.

That's the 5th HM or longer run of the year, so on track for my target of 12 in the year (there's another couple of Wimbledon Common Half marathons later in the year, the rest of the long runs will be extended commutes).

Will see what happen with the speed as the weight begins to drop. I was ~15 minutes quicker on the same run last year when I was 6kg lighter.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on 22 May, 2017, 04:21:20 pm
Training for my October marathon is going really nicely.

Had my best week last week.

Mon- 3.5m zone 2
Tues-4m zone 2
Wed-4m zone 2
Thursday- 20km tt practice on bike
Friday - Rest
Saturday - My longest run to date - a half marathon in 2hours 4 minutes
Sunday - 20km tt practice on bike.

Stretching and foam rolling each night is really helping and its the first time I have come through a consistent week of running without feeling like im hurt or about to get injured!   I am having to ice my foot now and again as I keep bruising the bone/ligament that goes to my big toe.   Loosening and changing my laces seems to have helped and I ran the half marathon without any pain.   The half was also completed fasted and I felt really strong at the end so I think I paced it well.

Bit more confident I can get through a marathon and at closer to 4 hours than I originally hoped for.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 14 June, 2017, 08:16:00 pm
Was planning to run tomorrow morning but the report I was supposed to review this morning didn't come until late today (my poor team member is struggling with  migraine), so i went out in Beatrix Park in the evening heat after the conference canapes and a couple of glasses of red wine.  40:20 for 10k on MapMyRun.  if only I hadn't had that second glass of red wine.  However, suggests that the running legs are still in good nick even though its peak cycling season.  So will continue with the ambition of running the Basingstoke Canal (37 miles) this autumn.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 24 June, 2017, 11:17:57 pm
Was planning to run tomorrow morning but the report I was supposed to review this morning didn't come until late today (my poor team member is struggling with  migraine), so i went out in Beatrix Park in the evening heat after the conference canapes and a couple of glasses of red wine.  40:20 for 10k on MapMyRun.  if only I hadn't had that second glass of red wine.  However, suggests that the running legs are still in good nick even though its peak cycling season.  So will continue with the ambition of running the Basingstoke Canal (37 miles) this autumn.

I too fancy running the Basingstoke canal but am nowhere near your fitness. I'd have to do it as a slowish run/walk. Probably 60% walk at current fitness.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on 02 August, 2017, 09:34:05 am
Hi all,

Into week five proper of training for my first marathon.   Been hitting around 20 mile weekly average since Christmas when I first started running regularly but things now ramp up to a 16 week marathon programme averaging 35 miles per week.

I am keeping the plan pretty free flowing as I am due to become a Dad for the second time any day.   I will have to fit runs around that so although I am confident I can hit the weekly mileage targets I am not sure how those runs will come.  I will always do a long run, a marathon pace 10k and a quicker 5k with most of the mills being easy runs.

Trying to cycle on days off or in the evenings after morning runs just as active recovery.   Im also foam rolling ion the evening and doing body weight exercises with stretching.   Physio booked once a month with an extra vist thrown in for the month before the marathon.

Aiming for 4 hours, currently 14stone 11 at 6ft.

Here's the plan any how....
(http://i.imgur.com/QolWOAu.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 20 August, 2017, 08:29:11 pm
Just been for an evening run down the Nidd Gorge. Stopped to chat to a chap when n the footbridge and realised I've been running that route for 1 year short of 30...

Seen some changes down there, but was pleased to see a couple of deer as i climbed away from the river

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 20 August, 2017, 11:43:22 pm
Hi TREJ,

YMMV literally but that looks a lot of miles within taper period.

Hope you don't mind me saying.

Cheers

Blazer
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 25 August, 2017, 02:07:27 pm
Running plans starting to take shape. 

Managed 19:53 in the July last Friday of the Month 5k run in Hyde Park, and had a good 10 mile run on local paths last weekend averaging 4'24" per km.  Will be stuck in The Hague during the week for the rest of the year, so Mrs CET won't appreciate long cycle rides at the weekend.  So the Airnimal is parked in Holland so I can get miles in each evening during the week and my weekly run will move to Saturday mornings.  Hope to do the Dartmoor End to End on 6th January, using the 37 miles of the Basingstoke Canal as a warm up (towpath gets quite muddy in November and December)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 25 August, 2017, 09:24:05 pm
After the summer hiatus and 1000km on the bike (4 rides not 1), I've signed up for 2 half marathons in November.  Good to have a goal and all that.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: essexian on 26 August, 2017, 09:07:48 am
My local running club, Stafford Harriers, has a "Complete beginners" class starting on the 10th Sept. Speaking to a worker at the railway station yesterday while booking my train tickets for an epic bike adventure I am doing next week, she suggested that I would enjoy it and it would help with my overall fitness.

I am not so sure given that at 92kg, I think I am too heavy to run. Indeed, I struggle to run to the end of my drive let alone knock out any relevant distance. Running also brings back bad memories of cold November mornings being made to run to Tottenham Locks and back while our games teacher sat in his warm office grinning at the pain he was inflicting upon us.  >:(

Is it worth it.... on the plus side, I get to spend money on new kit   ;D  And if I did learn to run (at school I was a 100 and 200m runner. I was of a reasonable standard and ran for the school for several years. Any further than 200m however, forget it!) I might be able to do a tri, which has been on my bucket list for some time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 01 September, 2017, 10:30:01 am
Got out this week for a couple of 3-4 mile runs after a 9 week hiatus following injury.   Dawning realisation that I need to get up early and run in the morning to avoid bunking off "working" from home so much  ;). Using the runs to go and check on our sheep up at our smallholding so it's reducing our car usage too.  Biking over there on non running days whenever possible, sneaking in a detour to get an extra mile in.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 01 September, 2017, 03:50:54 pm
My return to running was interrupted by lurgy of the no energy kind. Got out again yesterday evening and enjoyed the moonlight for half an hour.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 03 September, 2017, 09:20:55 am
Away on holiday last week, with more sedentary friends. Managed to get a 'quick' 10 miler in though, off road and fun. Was an it longer than I'm used to though...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 03 September, 2017, 02:45:59 pm
Agh. Wimbledon Common HM in just over a month. Haven't done any meaningful running since (checks Strava) mid July. Great.

A month *should* be enough time to get in enough to finish it without having to walk so I'll just treat it as a long training run.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 03 September, 2017, 07:45:17 pm
Nearly 17 miles cross-country east of Alton on Saturday, longest run of the year so far.  Was my 45th run of half-marathon distance or more so am going to try to get the number over 50 before Christmas.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 03 September, 2017, 08:57:31 pm
Nearly 17 miles cross-country east of Alton on Saturday, longest run of the year so far.  Was my 45th run of half-marathon distance or more so am going to try to get the number over 50 before Christmas.

Hi CET,

Have you considered the Meon Valley HM on the 5th November.  I think that is in your neck of the woods.

Cheers

Blazer
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 05 September, 2017, 09:36:46 am
Got out this week for a couple of 3-4 mile runs after a 9 week hiatus following injury.   Dawning realisation that I need to get up early and run in the morning to avoid bunking off "working" from home so much  ;). Using the runs to go and check on our sheep up at our smallholding so it's reducing our car usage too.  Biking over there on non running days whenever possible, sneaking in a detour to get an extra mile in.

D'oh - hint of pain in the groin area suggests I've not fully healed or I've started training again too hard.  Some extra rest days and slow it all down a bit might be in order.
Unfortunately I've entered a 10k XC on Sunday ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 10 September, 2017, 10:14:47 am
Nearly 17 miles cross-country east of Alton on Saturday, longest run of the year so far.  Was my 45th run of half-marathon distance or more so am going to try to get the number over 50 before Christmas.

Hi CET,

Have you considered the Meon Valley HM on the 5th November.  I think that is in your neck of the woods.

Cheers

Blazer

Thanks Blazer,

I will look into it, although I'm back from a trip to the US in the middle of the week so might be a bit muddled-up on time zones. 

I added the alternate longer start via Water End to Five Lanes End into my 17.2 mile Weston Common route today to make it exactly 30km.  I'm now using Map My Run as an app to keep track of my distance and pacing, so have an American voice I've christened 'Barbara' who reminds of my speed every kilometre.  I've found that acts as a motivation so didn't start to tie up until about 26km at a speed that would have been a substantial PB for the route.  It's also my 18th 18+ mile run so my imperial Eddington number for running is now 18  :smug:

Back to The Hague tonight for work so will be back to the Airnimal that's tucked up in the hotel staff bike park during the week, with the next long run hopefully pushed out to 20 miles next Saturday.  You might have guessed that I'm really enjoying the running and I think that's because there are still new targets and fun things to do in a couple of hours, whereas I'm finding it hard to do the same on a bike.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 16 September, 2017, 12:28:02 pm
Mrs CET was visiting in laws so had the morning to myself.  Pushed the distance out to 34km with a mostly new route following the Brenda Parker Way north of Hook and then cutting across to the Basingstoke Canal via Winchfield Church.  This allowed me to scout out the end of the Basingstoke Canal proper and the route from Greywell to Up Nately. A sharp hill after 7km of high speed flat towpath was purgatory but the real killer was long grass on soft ground at km 32. But kept speed and form up to that point which is very encouraging.  Will see how work goes next week but might only be one training run short of a marathon.  The plan is to get up to 50km in training and then give the full Canal distance a go

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 24 September, 2017, 05:08:17 pm
Slight head cold, but felt well enough to do my pet half-marathon route, only 41 seconds off my best time, which had a tailwind on the way back, so probably made the right decision to go out.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 02 October, 2017, 11:32:10 am
Just got the "You're In" magazine for London Marathon (ballot place, first success after 4 or 5 ballot entries).

Already planned on doing Brighton next year (entered, hotel booked, etc) so I'll probably defer it to 2019 and then skip Brighton that year.

I wonder if it's got anything to do with completing the 2 mile swim at Swim Serpentine this year (which is one of the 3 London Classics events along with VLM and Ride 100).

[EDIT] Checking online it seems I might have a Ride 100 ballot place too. Haven't had anything in the post but logging in to the registrations site (https://hub.realbuzzregistrations.com/) shows me having a bib number for the 2018 ride.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 02 October, 2017, 11:33:33 pm
Saturday do 6 miles and gentle 4 tonight. Nice to be out and, tonight, off road in the dark again...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 06 October, 2017, 07:36:04 am
Did anyone see the Runners World piece about cheating in a parkrun? I saw Paul Sinton-Hewitt's response first, so went to look for the original article. It's interesting, and I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, it's a stupid article looking for a sensational angle on a non-story and the journalist is "only cheating himself", but on the other hand, as an audaxer, it makes me stop to think about the question of whether or not parkrun is a "race" since it does publish a list of finishing times and placings...

https://www.runnersworld.co.uk/events/inside-the-world-of-race-cheats
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 06 October, 2017, 03:35:46 pm
Did anyone see the Runners World piece about cheating in a parkrun? I saw Paul Sinton-Hewitt's response first, so went to look for the original article. It's interesting, and I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, it's a stupid article looking for a sensational angle on a non-story and the journalist is "only cheating himself", but on the other hand, as an audaxer, it makes me stop to think about the question of whether or not parkrun is a "race" since it does publish a list of finishing times and placings...

Races like this (and any mass participation runs such as marathons) are generally only a race for a relative few (5 or 10 on a parkrun, top 250 or so on a race like London Marathon).

The rest of the people are just out pushing themselves to a new PB or maybe just to get around within some arbitrary time limit or maybe even just to finish another one.

I use parkrun for a variety of things. Some of the time it's just miles (I'll run to/from it trying to minimise my time stopped and so it just becomes part of a longer run which I obvious run at less than 5k pace), some of the time I'll treat it as an all out effort to get a new PB, but most of the time I do because it's nice to run with a bunch of other people and I'll run it at a slower pace (e.g. HR not over X bpm) as part of some half-arsed training plan.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 06 October, 2017, 03:59:21 pm
I was going to say that it's a race at the front and a run further back.

Certainly, 'cheating' is pretty pointless, but there you go...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 06 October, 2017, 06:49:25 pm
I skimmed the article.
Our parkrun is certainly competitive at the front (although in a very friendly manner) but after the first few runners it's definitely you against yourself and the course (ours is all cross country and fairly hilly). We did have a couple of youngsters who cut a corner off some time ago but were spotted by one of the marshals. I think they got a bit of a chat and I assume their times were removed from the record.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 07 October, 2017, 03:14:35 pm
31km today after 30km mostly on the beach in the Witterings last weekend.  That brings up half marathon run number 50, as a cyclist that took up running aged 47, 5 1/2 years ago.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 07 October, 2017, 03:22:21 pm
Lesson learned for me I guess.   Try on shoes in the shop, buy the ones that fit you best even if the colour is awful.   They're for running FFS and I'm not exactly a fashionable chap anyway.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 12 October, 2017, 07:22:03 pm
I have a confession to make, I haven't run since the last week in August.

Running mojo seems to be cowering under the pillow
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 16 October, 2017, 07:02:44 pm
Went for a run today in windy Baku.  8km, first time in 8 weeks, not the pleasantest, but I got out there
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: dat on 20 October, 2017, 11:58:58 am
Never done running before but have just started couch to 5k. Doing it as I feel a little burnt out with cycling at the moment. I thought I should skip a couple of weeks as a cycle 200miles a week so I'm fairly fit. Decided not too and start from the beginning. So glad I did, this running thing is hard.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 20 October, 2017, 12:13:01 pm
Last proper run was a lunchtime 5k on Sep 19th.

Still playing almost 2 hours of 5-a-side a week but my feet/ankles are a complete mess.

It started with a couple of 50:50 challenges at 5-a-side on the evening of the 19th. Nothing malicious in them, just a couple of times I kicked the ball (right footed) at the same time as one of the opposition. My foot hurt after the game, sharp pain around the base of the big toe (Dr Google suggests it'll be something wrong with my sesamoid bones/tendons). Although the pain is sharp at times (when I push in certain places) it doesn't hurt like a fracture does (I've broken metatarsals in the past) so I'm guessing it's more tendon related than bone.

Of course I haven't gone to the doc or physio and I've continued to play. It doesn't stop me kicking the ball with that foot either, the discomfort is pretty much the same if I play with my left foot as my right foot becomes my standing foot when striking the ball which puts just similar (but different) stresses on it.

After games I'm limping a bit, and it definitely feels like I shouldn't be going out for a proper run, but a couple of days later (I play on a Tuesday and a Thursday) it's ok enough to consider playing again. However the time I can play before the discomfort comes back is getting shorter and shorter. I've also been compensating in my gait which is throwing up a whole load of other niggles (sore calf, sore heel in the other foot, etc).

I did also do a 7h cycle ride (first ride over 2 hours in over a year) last weekend, but that doesn't seem to have made anything any worse.

Luckily it's half term soon and I'll be on holiday in sunny Cornwall for a bit. No football for 12 days and no plans for any running, just some lovely walks (or the par 3 golf course with wife/daughter). If there's any discomfort at the end of the holiday then I'll book a physio appt and see what they say. I hate not playing/running but I know that it's not going to get any better (and could get considerably worse) if I don't get it looked at properly. More annoying because I rarely ever get injured enough to have to stop, I've been very lucky in that respect.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 22 October, 2017, 05:12:05 pm
Went for a run today in windy Baku.  8km, first time in 8 weeks, not the pleasantest, but I got out there

Well done.  Kudos for the location.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 22 October, 2017, 05:20:56 pm
After 5 30km runs in the past 6 weeks, all of which were at a pace higher than my marathon PB, I thought I would give the full distance a go today.  I designed a route 2/3 trail 1/3 road that looked like it would be the right distance and be mostly downhill for the last 8km when I expected my legs to tie up.  The only difficult bit was the boggy section up through the woods which my figure of eight route required me to do twice.  The voice from Map My Run kept me honest with my kilometre splits and I was able to knock seven-and-a-half minutes of my previous best, which was set on road at the Milton Keynes Marathon.   :smug:

And was able to cut the grass in the rain afterwards.   :smug: :smug:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 22 October, 2017, 05:30:21 pm
Nice steady 11 miles today with an old and long time friend and running companion. Managed to fall over descending a rough and muddy hill in the woods, but fortunately didn't land on her as she's probably less than 2/3 my weight. Ribs a bit sore now mind...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 22 October, 2017, 05:48:08 pm
Went for a run today in windy Baku.  8km, first time in 8 weeks, not the pleasantest, but I got out there

Well done.  Kudos for the location.

The only continent I've not run on is Antarctica. Par for the job with me

Next month I should be able to get a run in above the Arctic Circle
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: phantasmagoriana on 23 October, 2017, 08:56:56 am
Went for a run for the first time in ages yesterday (I don't really run, and when I do it's usually when I'm on holiday and don't have a bike; yesterday I only had a short window of free time and it wasn't worth going out for such a short bike ride). Whenever I try running, I always seem to go too hard and  my shins hurt for days afterwards, so I decided to just take it easy. Did 4 miles up the river and back, it was surprisingly ok and I didn't feel like I was going to die by the end.

I've been meaning to try a parkrun for a long time so I may try and get along to the local one soon. Should give me something to do when I can't be bothered cycling (i.e. most of the time at present).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 23 October, 2017, 11:43:12 am
Went for a longer run on Sat. Kept speed down, was aiming for 10km but didn't check how far on strava, just gesstimated it. 9.4km when I got home, at average of 5:53per km, which was faster than I expected. That's further than I've run for probably 15 years. My dodgy foot really didn't like me running over grass, I may have to look into shoes with more protection. Legs a little sore this morning.

I'm really envious of you guys who can run real long distances. I'd absolutely love to be able to do that, particularly in the mountains. My tendons, hip joint and ankle say "no" quite firmly though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 02 November, 2017, 11:31:01 am
I've be plagued by a stitch when running. Assumed it was due to lack of fitness.

Started to wonder if maybe the waist pouch I was wearing (non-stretchy belt) was restricting my breathing. Bought an arm pouch thing to try instead.

Went for a run this morning, not quite 5k, kept pace up to my usual speed or quicker. Not a single stitch, not even a hint of one.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 02 November, 2017, 10:49:09 pm
two short runs this week, each about 6.5km/35mins.  Calves not as bad as last time I ran.

This week I was running on the Deeside line, an old railway in Aberdeen, now a shared use path.  I had a head torch and retro-reflective gear. I was surprised how many cyclists and runners did not have either. I almost ran into another runner in the dark, wearing as much low-vis gear as he possibly could.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 21 November, 2017, 06:41:30 pm
Only a short run today 5km or so, but in mitigation, it was above the arctic circle in Hammerfest, it was offroad in snow, and it was about -4 with a windchill to -10.  It was bloody good fun though, even if I did get lost. 

Not sure which is more middle of nowhere, here or In Amenas?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Blazer on 21 November, 2017, 07:07:40 pm
I've paid a small fortune and have a place on Brighton 2018.  Good to have a goal and all that.

I think I only post on this thread now and wonder if that is a sign I need to consider another forum...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 21 November, 2017, 10:00:43 pm
My Brighton 2018 attendance hangs in the balance. At least the expensive hotel I booked is refundable.

Foot x-ray came back all clear. Have a physio appointment tomorrow. Likely possible outcomes:-
a) Assessment and referral back to doc for more scans (unlikely)
b) rest (from running or 5-a-side), then physio
c) physio and rest (from running/5-a-side)
d) physio and ease back into running/5-a-side

Given:
* my last run was just over 2 months ago
* it's only 5 months until Brighton
* I'm 16kg from my self imposed maximum weight for running another marathon

...it's looking unlikely, but if I've got a chance then I've got to approach the weight loss and training properly.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 22 November, 2017, 11:36:24 am
c) physio and rest (from running/5-a-side)

Back from the physio and it's looking ok.

Injury is/was almost certainly a stress fracture, but it's almost 2 months since the original injury (impact injury during 5-a-side) and 4 weeks since I stopped playing/running, so it's had a fair while to heal so far. His prodding suggests there's still some bone bruising so I remain off running/5-a-side for another couple of weeks at least, but now have a healthy list of exercises to do to get me back on track and a followup appt in 2 weeks. Luckily no tendon/ligament damage.

If all goes well I should be running again in 2 or 3 weeks, which sadly means I've still got enough time to get fit for Brighton in April and put in the graft to get the weight down (we'll see how far down from 95kg I can do in 20 weeks, under 80kg is looking unlikely). If there's no improvement in 2/3 weeks, or it gets worse, then I'll be referred back for an MRI.

First time I've used my private healthcare in the 20 or so years I've had it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 22 November, 2017, 12:42:18 pm
c) physio and rest (from running/5-a-side)

Back from the physio and it's looking ok.

Injury is/was almost certainly a stress fracture, but it's almost 2 months since the original injury (impact injury during 5-a-side) and 4 weeks since I stopped playing/running, so it's had a fair while to heal so far. His prodding suggests there's still some bone bruising so I remain off running/5-a-side for another couple of weeks at least, but now have a healthy list of exercises to do to get me back on track and a followup appt in 2 weeks. Luckily no tendon/ligament damage.

If all goes well I should be running again in 2 or 3 weeks, which sadly means I've still got enough time to get fit for Brighton in April and put in the graft to get the weight down (we'll see how far down from 95kg I can do in 20 weeks, under 80kg is looking unlikely). If there's no improvement in 2/3 weeks, or it gets worse, then I'll be referred back for an MRI.

First time I've used my private healthcare in the 20 or so years I've had it.


I think this sounds positive, apart from running a marathon (too long on the feet for me)

Hope all goes well
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 02 December, 2017, 05:35:08 pm
Training for the Dartmoor Traverse still going well.  13 half marathons or more in 14 weeks.  Pace remains good.  Still have the groin niggle I've had for the last 17 years so its manageable.  Got the required kit list today.  Will have to try out the larger running rucksack next week with all the spare warm clothing and waterproofs in.  Shouldn't need them for the event but understand that they'd be essential if I got injured.  And Dartmoor is about as remote as it gets in England, especially the heart of the southern moor which we cross (on the northern moor we go up the west side over Great Links Tor)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on 04 December, 2017, 04:19:05 pm
Haven't been on here for a while but just to report that I completed my first marathon in October in 4h 40.

Comments...

In hindsight 13 months was not long enough to go from no running, to a marathon without having issues (I of course knew that before I started but decided to do it anyway).   I built up slowly with walking and running until had a solid 20 mile per week for a few months.   Then I started adding miles to that.   20 miles per week was fine ...as soon as I started adding mileage on to that I got niggles.   At 40 miles per week I got injured.

You read lots about speed and hill sessions.   My experience is that these are not a good idea for complete beginners.   They put too much stress on me and resulted in injury.  I would have been better off with lots of slow, flat miles and strength training before I ran a single interval or hill.   I didn't have the strength and stability in hips and ankles, or the correct form to run fast or on an incline.    Now I know my body better and have a full year of running and weights I am adding the speed and hill work and its paying off.   I have had to systematically target my weak spots every day to get to this point.

I managed to get tendonitis in my ankle which was successfully solved by strengthening, concentric moves.   I then got it in my hip which was only helped by rest.   Unfortunately this hit in the last 4 weeks of my training so my two week taper effectively became a 6 week taper.   I could cycle and cross train for 4 hours to simulate the cardio effort but I couldn't run.

I also had a baby girl (or my partner did) 8 weeks before the start which meant I didn't sleep for more than 3 hours in a row in that time.   That definitely stopped the injuries from healing.  I just didn't recover from runs like I did with 8 hours a night.

End result was me going to the start line with a longest run of 16 miles in training.   I was pretty close to a DNS but with it being my home marathon I thought I would just have a go.   I knew I could fuel and pace it well and I had multiple half marathons from earlier in my training to have some idea of what would happen...but I was in unknown territory after 16 miles.

Predictably I was strong up until 15 miles, running sold 10 min/mil, then the wheels came off.   Last 10k was awful.   Having now ran a 4h 40 marathon I can not for the life of me understand why anyone would want to do that more than once.   It was excruciating and I look at those runners who do multiple slow marathons as nothing other than self harmers!  I actually got a bit angry with all the people at the back who I was passing telling me this was their 10th marathon of the year...why??!!!  Its not like cycling where a slow ride can be fun - its horrible and punishing and the longer you take the harder it is!

I do want to do another - but I will only start it if I am confident of running a strong sub 4 hour time.   I am giving myself 2 years this time to train.  The good thing is I know where all my weaknesses are and am strength training daily to address these.   Next year I will concentrate solely on 5ks and half marathons looking for speed.   My weight was 93kg for the marathon which although came after 5 stone of loss was not nearly enough.  I wouldn't do another unless I was at least 10kg lighter.

All in all a great experience although I couldn't walk for a few days after.   All recovered now and into a more sensible 5k training program.  The one thing running has done is to kill my winter cycling....I just can not face the wet, the cold, the muck and all the clothes.   I can get my run done in a lunch hour and get similar health and mental benefits.  In general though my cycling is stronger now than it was when I did was cycling - im lighter and fitter from running alone with the occasional effort on the bike.


Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 05 December, 2017, 05:47:46 pm
Trying to do 50/50 at the moment, which is working well except when work gets in the way.

5.6 miles last night at 7:17 pace with an hour on the turbo planned for this evening.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 29 December, 2017, 12:01:53 pm
Jogger's nipple

Ouch
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 04 January, 2018, 09:17:12 pm
Packed up ready to travel down to Devon tomorrow for the Dartmoor Winter Traverse on Saturday.  It's just like a long distance cycle event, silly times of the day.   Register at 5.15am at the finish, then get bussed to the start so that you can then run back 50k over Dartmoor.  Weather looks cold, light sleet or snow and headwinds all the way.  But then there's the chance to run over the hills where I grew up.  Just got to be done.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 07 January, 2018, 11:15:58 am
How did the event go, CET?

I planned on running this morning, while household was asleep. Got togged up, did pushups etc to warm up, stepped outside and did a magnificent two-step dance on the black ice. No run for me this morning  >:(

Might see if I can manage one later, if ice disappears.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 07 January, 2018, 08:32:01 pm
It was icy to start.  The most treacherous bit was walking from the pick up at Meldon village hall (the finish) to the coach.  The difference with being on foot is that you can always walk along the grass verge once you feel it getting slippery. 

We set off at 7.15 am having been bussed around Devon to South Brent, with head torches.  After a short walk/run to Shipley Bridge to get warmed up, we had a short bit of icy tarmac to get onto the moor proper.  We were supposed to be going in groups with a mountain leader, but as we gained height the mountain leader was well behind.  I set off in the front group.  There were a couple of experienced ultra trail runners with GPS watches.  As we gained height the ground became increasingly frozen, which was just what I hoped.  Dartmoor can be boggy enough in the summer, let alone the winter, but with the top inch or two frozen solid it became much easier to run.  Sunrise was absolutely brilliant and we crossed the boggy ground around Red Lake and Erme Head with ease.  Then the wind picked up and the fog rolled in.  This thinned our lead group down to four: Matt, Charlie, George, and me.  Matt and Charlie were clearly highly experienced trail runners - they talked about doing the Arch - 100 miles around the Cornish coast in the winter.  Charlie had also run the Glencoe skyline, which I'd seen on television and is a reasonably elite event.  George talked about running the Bristol Ridgeway, 45 miles, over Christmas, and was going to run 125km Gran Canaria traverse in 30 hours in a month's time (which both Matt and Charlie seemed to have done).  So I tagged along, listening to them chatting and realising that there is a whole Audax-like culture for trail runners.

The first stop was at Foxtor Cafe, Princetown, which I remember from a Dartmoor Devil and a couple of other Devon audaxes.  Our entry free included cake and a hot drink.  Four of us became five as Lyndon, with his dog Bessie, joined us, he'd entered the 30km run from Princetown.

I struggled on the next section, which followed the old railway line from Princetown.  They were better runners than me and used to making up time on easy ground.  We passed a large group that were taking the 30km walk option for the event.  Fortunately the fog stayed away - she good luck for the organisers, with the wind being from the northeast the western side of the moor had better weather.  There was a short road section at Merivale and then a walk up the steep hill to the Staple Tors.  There were two problems now.  The wind had freshened to a stiff northeasterly breeze, block headwinds are just as bad for running as for cycling.  And, it had warmed up enough to thaw the ground.  So every step now sunk into the mire that is Dartmoor in winter.  So there was as much walking as there was running.  The elastic between me and the others kept stretching but I was better over the boggy ground than they were (good route finding, a longer stride so I could leap bits they couldn't, and some brute strength and ignorance).  After skirting Cocks Hill we dropped into the Tavy valley and the next check point at Lane End.  I could feel a blister and some bruising on my left foot as the mud sucking bog had loosened that trail shoe.

Here they had hot drinks and a huge range of home made tray bakes, which even El Supremo would have been proud of (my early memories of Audax are of David Hudson's catering on controls in lay-bys).  We had 15km to go. 

The next 7km were all up hill, Ger Tor, Hare Tor, Chat Tor and around the side of Dunna Goat to pick up the old mineral railway that skirts the north side of Great Links Tor, and the highest point of the run, at 552m.  It was really cold and partly frozen up there, and i needed all of my bog-hopping skills kept me up with the rest.  From there it was all down hill to the finish at Meldon Village Hall and we stayed as a group of four, Lyndon having dropped back near Hare Tor, to finish in 6hr 26min.  We were at least 45 minutes ahead of the next group of runners.

At the finish they had hot stew, unlimited tea and biscuits.  It was one of those gold-plated days - good weather, good company, a good run, great food.  I really enjoyed it.  I'd booked two nights in the Travelodge at Sourton Cross (1 mile from the finish) but I only used it for a hot shower and change of clothes and was fit enough to drive home to Basingstoke after that.

All the training worked out well.  I had planned to do a 30 mile 4.5 hour run locally before Christmas but fatigue and a chest cold ruled that out.  I think if I'd not had the bug I would have been able to run a bit more fluently in the second half and not struggle so much to keep up with the others. 

There is a summer traverse and anyone looking for a trail running experience that's just like Audax should enjoy that.  Link is attached.

https://www.climbsouthwest.com/events/dartmoor-in-a-day/ (https://www.climbsouthwest.com/events/dartmoor-in-a-day/)

Legs are stiff today and I've got Compeed blister patches on both heels.  My left foot is slightly bruised but given the amount of rough terrain - lots of half-frozen peat bog, rocks, stones, river crossings, mud, etc, that's fine and there's nothing that will stop me running next weekend.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on 08 January, 2018, 08:19:23 am
A good read, thanks for that... AND WELL DONE!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 08 January, 2018, 08:23:29 am
Sounds fantastic. Well done indeed - just completing would be good but in with the lead group is admirable. For an event like that do you use trail shoes with plenty of padding or something with more feel?
Gold plated day indeed.

I managed 12.5km yesterday - maybe half of it on semi-boggy mud. The pavements were still icy so I opted to take a riverside route which was very chewed up. Needed to clear my head after getting some bad news in the morning.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 08 January, 2018, 12:10:33 pm
CET, Amazing.  I am in awe of anybody that completes something like that , let alone coming home in the lead group!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 09 January, 2018, 05:49:03 pm
I use Salomon Speedcross 4 shoes - so a top end trail shoe.  And for socks I use Tesco sports socks at £5 for 5 pairs. 

I take real care to make sure they are pulled tight, ie no wrinkles and I also take real care to make sure the shoes are as tightly laced as I can bear - that's partly because I have very narrow heels and if I don't get everything tight enough there'll be heel rub.  I also try to break shoes in - these Salomons are quite new and I'd planned at least one more long run in them before the event, which I didn't get to do. 

The trail shoes offer all the grip and support that I need.  If you have weak ankles (I have very stiff ankles which take a lot more abuse than many people) then you might need more ankle support - however I've also run in walking boots before and that requires a lot more what I would call Wallace in the Wrong Trousers running style - whereas in Trail Shoes I can run almost as well on the good surfaces as I would do in out-and-out running shoes.  The expert trail runners definitely exploited the ability to go fast on the easy sections so that they had more time in hand on the rough sections - just as I would exploit downhill and downwind sections on a long audax event to bank time for the tougher sections, and so trail shoes are, in my opinion, the way to go.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 10 January, 2018, 08:57:56 pm
A nice report CET and interesting shoe info. I’m currently running off road in Inov8 x-talon 190s,  it do sometimes wonder if I should try something a bit more cushioned for life never runs. Otoh, I used to wear original style Walsh PB’s everywhere.

After a cold over Christmas I just got out and did 6 miles tonight, finishing off on the Nidderdale Greenway through the deep dark woods:)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 12 January, 2018, 10:45:46 am
A nice report CET and interesting shoe info. I’m currently running off road in Inov8 x-talon 190s,  it do sometimes wonder if I should try something a bit more cushioned for life never runs. Otoh, I used to wear original style Walsh PB’s everywhere.

After a cold over Christmas I just got out and did 6 miles tonight, finishing off on the Nidderdale Greenway through the deep dark woods:)

No gruffalos?  Or did you have a mouse?  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 12 January, 2018, 11:35:54 am
A nice report CET and interesting shoe info. I’m currently running off road in Inov8 x-talon 190s,  it do sometimes wonder if I should try something a bit more cushioned for life never runs. Otoh, I used to wear original style Walsh PB’s everywhere.

After a cold over Christmas I just got out and did 6 miles tonight, finishing off on the Nidderdale Greenway through the deep dark woods:)

No gruffalos?  Or did you have a mouse?  :thumbsup:

Mouse and a head torch;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 13 January, 2018, 10:35:11 pm
great writeup and result cet! i did a 9km ( 8.8 on strava) tribute run today to commemorate victims of soviet aggression 27y ago. managed to go under 20min on a 5k sector and few other pb's which surprised me as i go out for a run once in a blue moon. i do miss the parkruns, but they clash with our saturday club rides and cycling obviously wins! here's top three finishers together with the ambassador.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180113/40a339ce954b5da2efcc5b5cfc1ab296.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 20 January, 2018, 09:40:53 pm
It's back to training.  I've abandoned plans for another Easter Arrow this year - too complicated, so am contemplating running the Basingstoke Canal.  http://www.basingstoke-canal.org.uk, which weighs in at about 37 miles.  31 miles or so of this are on a  towpath, with limited climbing, then the canal ends but there's 5 miles where footpaths broadly follow the route.  I can park the car at Basingstoke Station, get a stopping train to West Byfleet and run back.  If I get the first train of the day I should be back in time for lunch.

Today was proper hard training, 15 miles around Rotherwick and Hartley Wespall, going soft, waterlogged in places.  The mud sapped my strength, I was 20s per km slower than similar ground in the first half and then 40s per km slower towards the end.  But looking at the faces of the cyclists I saw coping with muddy potholed roads and constant drizzle, I reckon I had the best of the day.  When I looked back at my records, it was my 60th half-marathon, my first having been done at the tender age of 47.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 22 January, 2018, 02:15:37 pm
Anyone tell you that you are a nutter?

I splashed out on some Hokas. Still settling in to them - they are a bit narrow fitting for me - but the massive cushioning is really helping, I don't get pain on my old injury after each run anymore (previously, after a10k run I'd be limping for the next 24hrs).
Not any faster yet but the money was worth it just to know I'm not causing more damage to an already stuffed ankle.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 30 January, 2018, 05:07:32 pm
Royal Parks Half Marathon ballot is open.

https://royalparkshalf.com/

Be warned about the £57 !!!!five!!!seven! entry fee. Crikey.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 31 January, 2018, 09:32:02 am
You also forget the £3.95 P&P, so actually £60.95 :o  However, compared to the £40 Adidas are charging for their 10 km race in Fulham (https://www.adidascityruns.com/fulham/overview/) in March that doesn't seem as bad. They also don't seem to be offering any good for age spaces either. Bournemouth is the weekend before are about half the cost.


My training was going well until I got hit by a ('flu?) virus over a week ago and & haven't run for nine days & counting. I was meant to be running Watford half this Sunday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 31 January, 2018, 09:57:32 am
For some people a half marathon is their major goal, so they don't mind spending a chunk like that for a one off event.

I use HMs for marathon training so I either do my own (extended commute or out and back along the Thames path) or go cheap (RunThrough are £28 for the Wimbledon Common half which is 3 or 4 times a year and gives me timing, motivation, a technical t-shirt [useful as a training top], water on the way round and free photos, I don't mind paying that much for all of that).

Skiing in a couple of weeks so I need to do as much running as possible before (being careful not to overdo it and get injured) to help my legs. Starting to get to the 'fun' stage of getting back into fitness where it's not so horrible and I start to see the stats (weight, pace, HR, VO2max, etc) move in the right direction.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 02 February, 2018, 11:44:13 am
For some people a half marathon is their major goal, so they don't mind spending a chunk like that for a one off event.

True true. Also, I've been thinking further about entering the Royal Parks Half because at least it doesn't involve any transport costs, unlike some races I do in places such as Milton Keynes.

I noticed it's possible to enter the ballot & pay up front. If unsuccessful in the ballot "You will be entered in the “second chance” draw for any unallocated places", which seems to good reason to pay up front. But wait, if one is still unsuccessful "You will receive a 2018 edition Royal Parks Hoodie to say thank you for your [£57] donation". (See here (http://royalparkshalf.com/uploads/PDFs/2018/Ballot%20Process%20Diagram.pdf).)

Oh, so I pay upfront, don't get a place and my fee is donated. Hmm. If I enter I'll be opting to pay once I know the outcome of the ballot.

(From a selfish point of view it's a shame they don't offer good for age.)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 09 February, 2018, 10:02:46 pm
This looks like being my next running goal.

https://goo.gl/maps/h5MoV3ySR9S2

The peninsula on which Selsey and West Wittering sit is known as the Manhood Peninsula https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhood_Peninsula

So this would be a Manhood marathon.

And all for free (except it will probably total another pair of socks given the mud on various parts of the route).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 04 March, 2018, 06:54:54 pm
I ran a PB at Wokingham half two weeks ago, which was great. Since then I had a big week of training, followed by falling off a Boris bike & possibly fracturing a rib (I've not been to a doctor because there's no point so it's self diagnosed). The next day I ran a 33 km training run during which time one of my quads gave up. I've had a week of rest and today managed around 15 km of the Big Half before the same muscle gave up and I had to walk to the finish. Walking along in just shorts & a club vest was cold, but somewhere in Deptford a marshal gave me a foil blanket to help me maintain my body temperature. Still, only 37 minutes slower than Wokingham half!

I don't know if my quad injury is due to me running differently to protect my rib; whether it's caused by the pratt fall off of the Boris bike; or something totally unrelated. Still, only London marathon in seven weeks ::-).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 07 March, 2018, 11:44:59 pm
Hard luck Adamski. I hurt some ribs a couple of weeks ago falling while running through a dark alley and they're still sore. Just did 6 miles tonight, so nice to be out again.

I've got a heavy 4 weeks of rides kicking off with Deano's 100 mile Brevet Unpopulaire, so really ought to get on the bike aain this weekend.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 08 March, 2018, 05:30:09 pm
It's been a spendy week.  I've plunged for a Garmin Forerunner 735XT 'wearable' sports watch and a pair of Brooks Ghost 10 shoes.  I've finally found a pair of road shoes that fit my wider foot well and feel like they are the proper length rather than having an acre of space in the toe box.

Looking forward to getting out tomorrow.   8)   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 09 March, 2018, 05:58:13 pm
It's been a spendy week.  I've plunged for a Garmin Forerunner 735XT 'wearable' sports watch...

I find the data and the 'new records' stuff very motivational.

Goals for next 12 months (after two week rest/recovery from marathon):-

* Get back in to a regular routine (swimming, cycling three times a week, 5-a-side twice a week, 11.5km run commute once a week - HM run commute once a month, intervals once a week, parkrun, long slow run on sundays)
* Weight down to under 80kg by Christmas (~36 weeks and ~11kg to lose) and to ~76kg by April 2018 (Brighton Marathon again - sub 4:15, possibly sub 4h)
* A few HM races over the next year, just to keep the long runs interesting and hopefully see some proper race progression
* Parkrun PB sometime around August hopefully (24:24 currently) as the weight comes off. 21:59 as a longer term goal, maybe lower if speed improves lots with weight coming off
* 50 parkruns by April next year (currently on 21) including a few volunteering!
* Run all of the paths/tracks on Putney Heath, and when that's done, Wimbledon Common (introduces some nice variation to the long runs, I can get right down to the Southern end at Barham Road in about 6km from home, so should be easy to pick off un-run bits)

Ha. Hahaha.

What a difference a year makes. Apathy post 2017 marathon and a metatarsal stress fracture in September killed off most of my plans (I only started running again properly in January and I'm easing back into it as I don't want to injury myself).

I've done 2 parkruns since that last post and have lost and put back on the weight (95kg now). So, starting again:-

Goals for next 13 months (leading up to London Marathon 2019):-

* Get back in to a regular routine (swimming, cycling three times a week, 5-a-side twice a week, 11.5km run commute once a week extended to a HM run commute once a month, intervals once a week, parkrun, long slow run on Sundays)
* Weight down to under 80kg by Christmas (~41 weeks and ~15kg to lose) and to ~76kg by April 2019 (London Marathon - sub 4:15, possibly sub 4h if I get under 76kg)
* A few HM races over the next year, just to keep the long runs interesting and hopefully see some proper race progression
* Parkrun PB sometime around August hopefully (PB is 24:24 currently) as the weight comes off. 21:59 as a longer term goal, maybe lower if speed improves lots with weight coming off
* 50 parkruns by April next year (currently on 23) including a few volunteering!
* Run all of the paths/tracks on Putney Heath, and when that's done, Wimbledon Common (introduces some nice variation to the long runs, I can get right down to the Southern end at Barham Road in about 6km from home, so should be easy to pick off un-run bits)
* Swim Serpentine 2 mile swim again in September 2018 (really enjoyed that last year despite it being cold!)
* Keeping entering the Ride 100 ballot as I want the London Classics medal (assuming I actually finish the London Marathon in 2019) - would consider charity place if I'm unlucky in the ballot in 2019 (no place this year in the ballot)

(I have a London Marathon place for 2018, thanks to the ballot, but I'll be deferring it due to my foot. I'll also be passing on the Brighton Marathon place I have this year which was my backup.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 29 April, 2018, 10:42:37 pm
I strained something in my calf a week or so ago (pain across it, about half way up). A week of nothing more than a walk seems to have fixed it, though don't feel as ache free everywhere as I'd like. Anyway, managed a nearly 5km / half hour run today OK. I've entered a trail half on 10th June, so need to start building the running up a bit.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 30 April, 2018, 08:59:10 am
On the volunteer roster for local parkrun next week. (Can run it first too unless they switch jobs for me.)

Didn't want to get the (unofficial) award for most parkruns without volunteering.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 30 April, 2018, 09:10:51 am
VLM 2019 ballot open now: https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/how-to-enter/ballot-entry/
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 05 May, 2018, 04:50:36 pm
VLM 2019 ballot open now: https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/how-to-enter/ballot-entry/

Good luck to anyone who's entered the ballot, which is now closed.

Interestingly the Good For Age system has changed for 2019. There's now a limit of 6,000 GFA runners (50 % split between male & female), with males under 40 years old needing to have run sub 3 hours (down from sub 3:05). The GFA times will be lowered if more than 6,000 people apply through the system. It sounds like one needs to be at least 5 minute inside the GFA time in order to be confident of a GFA place.

The times needed to get a Championship start remain the same.

Comparing the results from London marathon this year to last year far fewer men ran sub 2:45 (276 opposed to 542) or sub 3 (1,078 opposed to 1,862) so I wonder what impact that'll have on the numbers applying for a GFA spot.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 08 May, 2018, 02:26:00 pm
I ran my first 10k training run of the season this morning in a respectable time for me (and the terrain, which involved some uneven trails) of around 55 mins.  It was also my first serious attempt to up my cadence as I normally over-stride at about 156-159 steps per min.  Result - 168 steps per min.  This worked my lower legs more but the result was reasonably relaxed overall.  I shall continue working for 170 spm until it becomes second nature I think.

I'm hoping that my slow build-up of distance this year, and a focus on avoiding over-striding, will help me stay injury free for a change.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 10 May, 2018, 02:50:00 pm
Anyone else here running in the Hampshire Hoppit marathon or half-m on 17th June at Kingsclere?
I've just entered the HM.  Big steep hill one mile after the start :o 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 10 May, 2018, 03:43:51 pm
Over 410,000 have applied for a spot in the London marathon via the ballot :o https://www.fastrunning.com/events-and-races/london-marathon/record-400000-apply-for-london-marathon-ballot-place/15976

In other news I ran my first track race last night (a 5,000 m race). It was certainly different to running on the road as everyone is trying to hug the inside line, are a lot more bunched together & there's the decision to make about whether to pass people or tuck in behind. An interesting experience.

Good luck with the ½ Quisling. At least the hill isn't in the last mile!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 10 May, 2018, 03:56:18 pm
Over 410,000 have applied for a spot in the London marathon via the ballot :o https://www.fastrunning.com/events-and-races/london-marathon/record-400000-apply-for-london-marathon-ballot-place/15976

Took me 8 years to get my ballot place, luckily I could defer it for a year so I'm already set for 2019.

In other news I ran my first track race last night (a 5,000 m race). It was certainly different to running on the road as everyone is trying to hug the inside line, are a lot more bunched together & there's the decision to make about whether to pass people or tuck in behind. An interesting experience.

It's a long time since I did any track running but it is quite unnerving at first, similar to being boxed in in cycle road racing (which I find much worse personally - probably the faster speeds and more scope for pain).

Running 1m further out adds ~6.3m (2*pi) to each lap, but that's ~78.5m over the course of a 5000m race which is going to be ~20 seconds. You also lose out on draughting if you move further out.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 10 May, 2018, 04:34:11 pm
Over 410,000 have applied for a spot in the London marathon via the ballot :o https://www.fastrunning.com/events-and-races/london-marathon/record-400000-apply-for-london-marathon-ballot-place/15976

In other news I ran my first track race last night (a 5,000 m race). It was certainly different to running on the road as everyone is trying to hug the inside line, are a lot more bunched together & there's the decision to make about whether to pass people or tuck in behind. An interesting experience.

Good luck with the ½ Quisling. At least the hill isn't in the last mile!

I tried but the website kept failing to register my application.  Or at least, that's what appeared to be happening.  There's always next year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 10 May, 2018, 07:15:15 pm
It's a long time since I did any track running but it is quite unnerving at first, similar to being boxed in in cycle road racing (which I find much worse personally - probably the faster speeds and more scope for pain).
Yeah, it's strange having that feeling of being boxed in while running. I've done a decent amount of training on the track, but that's a different experience because it doesn't involve the jockeying for position.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 14 May, 2018, 05:50:29 pm
It's a long time since I did any track running but it is quite unnerving at first, similar to being boxed in in cycle road racing (which I find much worse personally - probably the faster speeds and more scope for pain).
Yeah, it's strange having that feeling of being boxed in while running. I've done a decent amount of training on the track, but that's a different experience because it doesn't involve the jockeying for position.

Elbows were invented for this scenario - track and the sprint for the stile/gateway 200 yds after the start of any (northern?) cross country race. It used to get pretty sharp at times
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 15 May, 2018, 01:44:26 pm
Slow progress but progress.

Watch pinged up new fastest 1km, 1 mile and 5k times after today's run.

(I'd deleted the previous records from when I was lighter, just kept my HM and marathon records in there, so this gives me a nice sense of achievement as I get back towards my previous level of fitness.)

5k time is now down to within 5 minutes of my previous best (I was about 12kg lighter when I ran that particular PB), just have to chip away at it to remove that 1min/km.

Need to build back up to doing regular 10k runs now as that's where I used to see the biggest gains.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 15 May, 2018, 01:55:45 pm
Up until 8 weeks ago I was running regularly. 6km once, twice a week and 13-14km on weekend. Then after a particularly fast 5km the tendon above my knee hurt. Gave it a few days rest, tried running - sore immediately. Gave it a week, tried a gentle 5km - much worse.
Three week's rest - same result.

8 weeks rest from running - still bad. So went to see company physio. To my surprise he's taken it very seriously. Thinks I'm probably badly torn tendon, just above patella. It doesn't hurt much in normal use (but then, Topiramate takes edge off all pain). Referred me to knee specialist for MRI and investigation for proper diagnosis.

No running. Very little exercise (but I can do gym, just stay off legwork).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 15 May, 2018, 02:46:54 pm
You have my sympathies MrC-YHT.  Each year my running looks like this:
* start running as beginner from lowish base fitness and perhaps 8-10 kg over ideal weight.
* progress up to about 10k capability, lose 4-5 kg and run a couple of 10k distances (not quick).
* pick up niggling injury (2016 = knee, 2017 = groin).
* stop running for a bit.
* start running and find it still hurts; give up for rest of season, re-start following spring.

This year I started more gently and only increased total distance not more than 10%/week on average.  Last week I ran two 10k's with a day in between.  Knee hurts.  Groundhog year coming up?  Gentle 5k this morning - minimal pain so hopefully not.

One year I'd really like to be able to keep going and get up to running 20-30 miles a week without borking something.  Maybe it's my age...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: tom_e on 15 May, 2018, 03:20:00 pm
You sound very like me, Quisling.  The annoying bit is that I really enjoy running.  Gets me out and about with a simplicity and freedom that even cycling doesn't touch.  My legs just can't take a lot of it, and never could even when I was 20.

What little I have learnt :

a) I need to allow time to recover, not run every day (even little runs).  One long run a week and then recover seems to be easier on my body than five short runs to the same total.

b) 10% per week is too high for me.  Either 5%, or a 10% step one week but then wait for it to feel "good" before stepping up another 10%.

c) Always back off if there's a problem.  I looked back through my running logs and (with the exception of a turned ankle) I have never been injured by a single run.  It's always been a buildup of too much total load, not one single run.  Again - allow time to recover.

None of which helps mrc.  Sympathies.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 15 May, 2018, 04:19:12 pm
b) 10% per week is too high for me.  Either 5%, or a 10% step one week but then wait for it to feel "good" before stepping up another 10%.

I think this is where I've gone wrong.  I just need to aim for consistency rather than epicness and build strength over time.  Injuries always seem to turn up after dropping in a longer run or three.  Doesn't bode well for the half-marathon in <5 weeks :-(  Another short run later this week and see how it goes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 15 May, 2018, 06:12:40 pm
I've just discovered the joys of Victoria Park (east London).  It seems to be for runners what Richmond Park is for cyclists.  So many of all varieties - it really helped with motivation.  I'm used to running on my own in a small local park where 22 laps make 6km - OK for a quick blast but anything longer gets very boring.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 15 May, 2018, 06:49:18 pm
small local park where 22 laps make 6km - OK for a quick blast but anything longer gets very boring.

That'd drive me nuts and I regularly do 160+ lengths of a 25m pool so I'm not afraid of a bit of repetition.

7 laps of the 2.28km loop used by my local parkrun did get a bit wearing: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1092459239 but it was a nice way to do a HM distance training run that isn't running along the Thames Path or through Richmond Park (#firstworldproblems).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 15 May, 2018, 10:04:24 pm
Victoria Park is good. The outer path makes for a decent lap of just over 4km, so me for with a run up to the park and back it's easy to make a 30+ km run by doing four or five laps of the park. Having to cross Lauriston Lane (the road through the park) can be annoying, so if I want to do a hard effort I'll stick to the eastern part of the park (like so: click (https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2612522578)), which is what the races also do (like so: click (https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2623457964)).

It's also easy to link runs with sections of Regent's Canal and/or Hertfordshire Union Canal. Plus laps of Mile End Parkrun course (ie: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2692568926).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 15 May, 2018, 10:30:53 pm
Having to cross Lauriston Lane (the road through the park) can be annoying, so if I want to do a hard effort I'll stick to the eastern part of the park (like so: click (https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/2612522578))

Yep, that's what I settled on - no interruptions.  Not as fast as you though   ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 16 May, 2018, 12:13:08 am
4:30/km at 115bpm.

*weeps*
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 16 May, 2018, 11:32:52 am
4:30/km at 115bpm.

*weeps*

Where's that from?

Weeping apart!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 16 May, 2018, 12:21:18 pm
4:30/km at 115bpm.

*weeps*

Where's that from?

Weeping apart!

See links in adamski's post above.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 20 May, 2018, 10:14:43 pm
Quote
I strained something in my calf a week or so ago (pain across it, about half way up). A week of nothing more than a walk seems to have fixed it, though don't feel as ache free everywhere as I'd like. Anyway, managed a nearly 5km / half hour run today OK. I've entered a trail half on 10th June, so need to start building the running up a bit.

And strained it again today, though it just started hurting as I ran, didn't slip or pull it. I've entered a half marathon on 10th June, so this is annoying.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 25 May, 2018, 09:25:33 am
Body still holding up.  Ran 8 miles last Thurs and 4.5 earlier this week with no real drama.  Long bike ride scheduled today so hopefully a recovery run will be on the cards for the weekend and then a longer run mid next week - target 8-10 miles.
I mentioned cadence in an earlier post. Through a conscious effort to run differently I've managed to go from 156-159 steps/min to approx 168 and this now feels fairly natural and hopefully now puts me less at risk of injury.  I'll try and push the cadence up a little more as I get fitter.  It's taken a few runs to adapt to the different cadence and it certainly works muscles slightly differently.  I think this is probably a good starting point to running faster in due course too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 25 May, 2018, 01:26:35 pm
There’s an interesting blog post by Steve Magness somewhere discussing approaches to increasing speed over the final lap of, I think, a 10k track race. Broadly higher cadence, longer strides or a bit of each. In the race he looked at the leading three runners each clearly used one of the strategies.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 04 June, 2018, 01:32:04 pm
Managed a 10.5 mile run last Tues am, and accidentally did another 8.8 on Friday after getting lost in the New Forest having only planned to do 4 miles  ::-)  Happily, through a combination of careful eating and increased exercise, I've been dropping about 1lb of body weight per week over the last 10 weeks.  I'm now 11 stone 7lbs.  The last time I saw that was circa 1988.  Even my MTB shorts fit again!  Good job I hung onto them. 

With the half-marathon 2 weeks away I'm aiming to maintain current weight until that's out of the way, then resume shifting weight until I get down nearer 11 st 2 which is theoretically the top end Stillman Weight for a half competent distance runner of my dimensions.  From there I can work on improving speed and/or distance. In the meantime the reduced weight is helping reduce pressure on knees and hips and hopefully contributes to injury avoidance. 

Really looking forward to upping the mileage and eating like a horse again ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 04 June, 2018, 02:32:28 pm
Entered https://www.thebighalf.co.uk/ today since it's perfectly timed (in terms of training plans) for people doing the London Marathon (which I also got to enter today since I deferred my ballot entry from last year).

That gives me 9 months to get into proper running shape (target is 1:45 HM and then a 3:45 Mara).

Current PBs are 2:06 and 5:07 but I intend to be >10kg lighter than I was when I did those (and which is 20kg lighter than I am now) so I've got my work cut out for me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 18 June, 2018, 08:53:20 am
Survived the Hants Hoppit half marathon yesterday. 2 hrs 15 mins to place me 240th out of 445 finishers. Given the terrain I’m happy with that. Knees hurt!
Good luck with your half Greenbank.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Legs on 26 June, 2018, 10:36:08 am
After nearly a year of knee injury, and barely any more that a little jog with my youngest in his pushchair, I ran the 5k at my village fete on Saturday morning.  Didn't manage to successfully defend my title but got round in 21:05, which is my slowest 5k by quite some way, but I was just pleased to have a pain-free run.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 27 June, 2018, 08:01:15 am
First run since March.  Don't normally run in the summer, but my Airnimal has a broken frame.  Did 10 miles along the beach from Schevingen to Wassenaar and back on the sand.  Legs feel appropriate at the moment, so will probably get back to the schedule of one run like this a week and see where that takes me.  Do quite fancy having a go at running from home (Basingstoke) to my caravan in Selsey.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 27 June, 2018, 03:47:22 pm
I’ve had a few poor days with only a 9 mile run on Sunday since last Wednesday. Nice thing was that I felt ok on Monday, just had a long work day, so fitness and resilience are coming back.

I also looked up Stillman weight. Apparently, when I was young and running 800m to 5k I was the correct 72kgs. I now have improvement possible, even to reach the inactive weight! Got to see it as opportunity eh.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 02 July, 2018, 08:54:24 pm
I also looked up Stillman weight.

Shit, that's a depressing scale  :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 05 July, 2018, 07:47:48 pm
I also looked up Stillman weight.

Shit, that's a depressing scale  :'( :'( :'(

Yes, but somehow it feels more robust than BMI. For a 6ft male the numbers land in the middle of BMI recommendation anyway. Not sure about smaller people.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 06 July, 2018, 12:59:12 am
I'm currently more than 30kg heavier than my Stillman Weight for the type of running I want to do (and have done).

50% heavier if you want to do it that way. 90kg+ instead of just shy of 60kg.

No wonder it's a chore. ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 06 July, 2018, 04:40:17 pm
Over 3 months since I injured my knee. Still can't run.

Physio wasn't even willing to give me exercises, he was concerned if they were the wrong ones I'd blow the quadriceps tendon completely.
Patella is extremely grunchy when moved around. I'm used to it making small noises, but this feels like lumps of gravel.
Even gentle commuter cycling causes a flare up.

Going to try kayaking again on Monday, which shouldn't stress it much. Legs are extended nearly straight and don't flex much in these sorts of kayak.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 06 July, 2018, 09:14:15 pm
Quote
Going to try kayaking again on Monday, which shouldn't stress it much

Which type of kayaking?  Where do you go?

Used to be at HPP twice a week and have done the big stuff in the past, Nile and Zambezi as well as the Alps for many years
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 08 July, 2018, 10:00:13 pm
I also looked up Stillman weight.

Shit, that's a depressing scale  :'( :'( :'(

Yes, but somehow it feels more robust than BMI. For a 6ft male the numbers land in the middle of BMI recommendation anyway. Not sure about smaller people.

Given that my running ambition is trail running, I put in my figures (83kg, 188.5cm), and it came up with a target weight of 72.6kg, which is less than my lean body weight (ie take out all my fat) calculated at my last medical of 73kg.  That means I'd have to lose a substantial amount of muscle mass as well as starve for months.  Or work out how to survive with a negative amount of fat in my system.  So I'm going to take the numbers with a pinch of salt.  I'd rather be a good rouleur who runs, than a skinny oik who would get blown away with the first puff of wind on a bicycle and catch every cold going.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 09 July, 2018, 08:59:29 am
I've only really started running in the last year, so had refrained from posting too much in this thread, as I was/am a bit crap.  I don't really run; I wobble-jog. But I think I'm getting better.

I started running a bit when we got Meg, the border collie puppy. Puppies aren't supposed to over-exercise (growing bones and stuff) so at 5 months old, and only able to do 20 minutes of run-walk, she was my ideal running partner. As she got bigger, I got a bit better, so we could run further and (a tiny bit) faster.  I bought myself a running watch in November, which was a revelation.  It turns out that I'm not actually totally shit (in whole population terms, not in proper running terms), and that the watch is massively motivational.  I've also finally learnt to run at a pace lower that 'near-death experience' pace.  Initially 'near-death' pace wasn't actually very fast, it was just that I was really lacking fitness, but as I got fitter, I was continuing to run as fast as I could reasonably manage, which made it a bit of a generally unpleasant experience.  So about 4 months ago I learnt to run to the pace on the watch, at a pace about 30 sec per km slower than 'near-death' pace, which makes it a nice run, with more in the tank to go a bit longer -  ::-) total revelation!

My problem now is that I've just moved from somewhere that was near the coastal path (so could do 5-10km with only about 30m of rise) to the side of a mountain (Moel y Ci, if anyone knows it). I've done my first couple of runs there last week - so much harder  :o from my house I have a choice of go down then up, or up then down.  Both ways have 250m elevation change in 2km. Get fit or die trying I suppose.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 09 July, 2018, 02:39:19 pm
I also looked up Stillman weight.

Shit, that's a depressing scale  :'( :'( :'(

Yes, but somehow it feels more robust than BMI. For a 6ft male the numbers land in the middle of BMI recommendation anyway. Not sure about smaller people.

Given that my running ambition is trail running, I put in my figures (83kg, 188.5cm), and it came up with a target weight of 72.6kg, which is less than my lean body weight (ie take out all my fat) calculated at my last medical of 73kg.  That means I'd have to lose a substantial amount of muscle mass as well as starve for months.  Or work out how to survive with a negative amount of fat in my system.  So I'm going to take the numbers with a pinch of salt.  I'd rather be a good rouleur who runs, than a skinny oik who would get blown away with the first puff of wind on a bicycle and catch every cold going.

Apart from observing that you’re quite tall, yes the scales do suggest that you and I would lose some muscle mass getting down to mid or long distance weight. That’s consistent with the GT guys though. Nothing wrong with keeping muscle mass as long as you don’t expect to carry quite so far and fast!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 11 July, 2018, 10:52:34 am
Have decided that I will remain a brick outhouse of a trail runner.  That means I don't have to give up cake for the next two years and can carry on with the weight training that gives me the necessary back and core strength to do Audax with a modicum of comfort, plus not get blown away with the first puff of wind.

Did my first half marathon since March on my favourite local route (the last 9km are mostly downhill and on road/good trails therefore you have to get it badly wrong to not have a negative split).  Was only 1 minute off my best for that route.  And was definitely the earliest finish I've ever had to a half (c5.40am)

Have set a long term goal of the Madeira Island Ultra Trail in April 2020, as I will be in the V55 category then, so am going to train up to a 50 mile run this winter.   :facepalm:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 11 July, 2018, 07:42:07 pm
Have decided that I will remain a brick outhouse of a trail runner.  That means I don't have to give up cake for the next two years and can carry on with the weight training that gives me the necessary back and core strength to do Audax with a modicum of comfort, plus not get blown away with the first puff of wind.

Did my first half marathon since March on my favourite local route (the last 9km are mostly downhill and on road/good trails therefore you have to get it badly wrong to not have a negative split).  Was only 1 minute off my best for that route.  And was definitely the earliest finish I've ever had to a half (c5.40am)

Have set a long term goal of the Madeira Island Ultra Trail in April 2020, as I will be in the V55 category then, so am going to train up to a 50 mile run this winter.   :facepalm:

Glad you'll be a v55 a few months before me, and I'm after the ultra:)

I tend to think that being a bit heavier, but strong, is no bad thing - even as I recall how fleet I felt at 72kgs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 13 July, 2018, 08:21:11 pm
Visited my osteopath today, who specialises in sports injuries, as the final treatment to sort out a problem arising from a combination of stress and bad posture from having to spend a lot of time in planes trains and other mobiles that weren't set up for a tall person, not helped by 1000km Audax. 

We talked about running and weight and he said that he treats a lot of runners who have problems with a weak core - they don't do sufficient weight and resistance training because they are afraid of putting on bulk...   so aiming for an ideal Stillman weight might have some problems - especially for those of mildly advancing years.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 16 July, 2018, 09:20:15 am
Visited my osteopath today, who specialises in sports injuries, as the final treatment to sort out a problem arising from a combination of stress and bad posture from having to spend a lot of time in planes trains and other mobiles that weren't set up for a tall person, not helped by 1000km Audax. 

We talked about running and weight and he said that he treats a lot of runners who have problems with a weak core - they don't do sufficient weight and resistance training because they are afraid of putting on bulk...   so aiming for an ideal Stillman weight might have some problems - especially for those of mildly advancing years.

I'm sure that's true, but I'm not convinced that light equals weak. Key is to do the core work without building the bulk - not that I'm particularly good at doing the core work - but resistance training doesn't have to turn you into the Incredible Hulk.

Certainly, I am carrying sufficient lard at 13st that I can lose quite a lot before I will be worried about compromising muscle mass. Probably, too, the focus on long distance/endurance (in cycling too) tends to predicate against any spare weight, whereas middle distance runners need to be quite strong.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 21 July, 2018, 04:22:58 pm
25.5km run today.  I went north of Rotherwick following a route I had done in the mud in the winter, hoping to go quicker on dry ground.  But it was hard going on uneven surfaces.  Then I got to an overgrown section and had to wade through foot deep grass on top of a ploughed surface, which cost time and took strength out of my legs.  There was more to come, with a herd of bullocks grazing along another section, which forced a retreat through the woods.  Average speed was below 5 mins/km which was disappointed, but it was a good test of trying to get back into rhythm after a unexpected hard section.  If I can get a good run in each week, should have the chance to run round the Manhood Peninsula (Selsey and Wittering) which is about a marathon, when I stay down at our carcan in August.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 21 July, 2018, 09:25:52 pm
Nice easy 7 miler this morning, off road on very rough ground, but took it easy as my left knee has been a bit stiff/sore (tendons at rear) following a couple of big weeks. I'll ride the bike tomorrow to give it a more gentle workout.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 27 July, 2018, 08:10:23 am
Braved the ford across the Lyde this morning.  It was less than two inches deep.  It made a nice alternative start to my 17 mile favourite route.  Struggled a bit with the firm underfoot going and the heat (even before 7am) but decided to add the extra off-road section through Hackwood park to bring the distance up to 18 miles.  Was able to keep the pace steady all the way round, even if not as quick as usual on this terrain, which I think is good news for having a go at a marathon distance around the Manhood peninsula in two weeks time.

If that goes well, then the Basingstoke Canal solo run is on.  The next thing on my short and sweet running bucket list.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 03 August, 2018, 09:24:05 am
Last long run before 45km round the Manhood Peninsula the week after next.  20C is definitely hotter than my preferred running temperature.  I did the hilly route out through Hackwood Park, over Farleigh Wallop, Moundsmere and trails through Bradley and Ellisfield back to Tunworth for the last 4 mile slog along roads.  The trails from 22km to 28km are quite technical, deep tractor ruts, lots of overhanging trees, awkward descents and stiff descents, all of which kick in just as the legs are starting to get tired, so I was please to get back into some sort of rhythm until the last 2km of 35.5.  Feels like the perfect test for the next big one.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 09 August, 2018, 09:36:30 am
Finding the Map My Run app effective for training.  Yesterday's run was mostly on the beach between Scheveningen and Kijkduin, and so the voice giving my kilometre splits was very helpful in sense checking my 'feel' for the pace at which I was running.  On the way out, into the wind, my kilometre splits were in a 6 second range.  On the way back, with the wind, exactly the same, only 15 seconds per kilometre faster.  Clearly pan flat sand of even consistency is easy to test this on than up and down hills of variable quality but I'm convinced my ability to run 'at a speed' is getting much better, which I think will help for the ultra events I hope to do.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 15 August, 2018, 12:40:16 pm
Proof of Manhood completed!

My static caravan at Selsey is on the oddly named Manhood Peninsula, which is the bit of land that sticks out into the English Channel south of Chichester.  It's quite a good place to go running, with the exception of no hills - the highest point is 9m above sea level - but there's a mix of woodland trails, farmland, canal path, shingle beaches, sandy beaches, gravel tracks and tarmac - so there's nearly always something to liven up a training run.  Looking at the map, the logical thing to do would be to run around the Manhood Peninsula, from my caravan, down to Selsey Bill, up along East Beach and half way around Pagham Harbour before running along the laughable National Cycle Route 88, which is far better as a running route than a cycling route (Selsey is one of the worst places in the country for traffic free cycling, with 8 mile of overcrowded tourist packed winding B-road and no proper cycle path), up to Mundham and then pick up the Chichester Canal along to the Marina on the north facing coast of Chichester Harbour.  That picks up the New Lipchis way, which is helpful as one or two of the twists and turns would not be guessed without the waymarks, sometimes along the coast, more often slightly inland, behind those properties that cost three times as much as they would otherwise because of the sea view. 

The path breaks out on the coast again, a little to the east of Itchenor.  Reluctantly past the Ship Inn, fortunately it wasn't doing breakfasts or the run might have ended then.  Then it's a beautiful trail through the old oak trees that overhang the shore, when the tide was in, but today there was a wide reach of salt marsh and mud stretching out to the last of the ebb (which was deliberate).  By now (28km at Itchenor) my legs were starting to tie up.  Map My Run emotionlessly recorded the fact that each kilometre was taking longer than the last.  But the trail and views were beautiful, just a little hard on the ankles because there hasn't been the rain to soften the ground.  Then there was West Head.  It's a spit, filled with sand dunes, and no more than 50m wide at the point my route reached it.  There was temptation to 'pretend' that it wasn't there, but I knew I would regret it if I did, so I turned back north, fortunately with a tailwind.  My legs were really hurting now.  When I reached the end, a broad curve rather than a sharp point I slowed to a walk to eat my second Eat Natural bar and drink from my Camelbak.  I also tightened my laces which, after 35km of running were not as tight as when they had started.  Then I painfully eased the legs into running mode again and headed round the last of the point and on to the hard sand heading south, for the last of the west coast section.

The tide was as far out as I've ever seen it, the Winner Banks stretching with their waterlogged but otherwise lunar landscapes far out into the sea.  I tried to stretch my stride but my hamstrings were having nothing of it.  I reached the first of the groynes and almost came to a halt stepping over it, but then I could see my path ahead, clear, on the hard flat sand, which was the reason for doing this run at low tide.  Slowly the landmarks came and went, West Wittering Beach, with its lifeguard post, East Wittering, then Bracklesham.  The marathon point was passed in 3:39.  With the tide so low it was probably that I could have carried on all the way to Selsey, even with the breach in the sea defences.  But it's tricky ground, the sandbanks and river from the new salt marshes keep changing position, and also, in summer, don't want to lure tourists into that area.  So I kept a watch for the point where the new sea defences start and struggled up the steep shingle beach, forced to a walk.  At the top there was a family of four.  The young boy looked at my crablike progress and must have wondered. 

Now it was just 6km of familiar tracks around the sea defences and back to the 'van'.  It's the longest those 6km have ever taken, and the most painful.  There are several gates along the top of the defences, each requires a stop, which was okay, and a start, which definitely wasn't okay.  But eventually the sea defences were past, and I could navigate using the familiar landmarks close to home, the track, the junction, the solar panels, the gap in the hedge, the zigzag in the road, the turn into the poplars.  Map my Run piped up with the 50km time just short of the 'van' which avoided that awkward decision of do I go once round the block to get to a round number distance.  I stopped the clock, struggled up the three steps to the deck, and collapsed in a chair for a few minutes.

That's the next on my bucket list of homemade runs - 50km in 4:29.  It was harder than I expected, perhaps due to the hard ground, but also a 10km walk and photography lesson (teaching no 2 son how to use his new DSLR) the day before (plus a 21 mile time trial of sorts testing out the new Enigma Bike) had put a bit of fatigue into the calves and ankles.  The next one, probably towards the end of September will be the 60km of the Basingstoke Canal, which will be on equal firm surfaces but no sand or shingle.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: tonyh on 15 August, 2018, 12:54:38 pm
 :) :) :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 20 August, 2018, 02:17:37 pm
Well done CET - for a person who doesn't normally run in the summer you seem to be doing just fine!  I agree - the Stillman weight seems to be for pure runners who want the Mo Farah physique and not ideal for triathletes.  Mind you, when I was 12 st. 8 lbs I thought I'd look anorexic if I was 11 stone and now I'm 11st 7 I can see I could readily get below 11 and still look healthy.  Shifting another half a stone will undoubtedly help the running.

I've had nearly 6 weeks off running.  I borked a knee doing the Hants Hoppit in June, then crunched my lower back but I've just done two 4.5 mile runs since Saturday with no knee problems so far, just minor back pain so I'm optimistic.  Made the error of forgetting to take my running shoes on holiday so missed out on some splendid coast path around the Gower last week. Still, I'm off to the New Forest soon....

Aiming to work back up to do another trail half-marathon before too long - either the Andover on 2nd Sept (probably too soon) or Clarendon on 7th Oct, and then keep running over the winter (which I've never managed before) and try a marathon next spring.  Whilst I need to get the odd long run in, I'm now trying a strategy of running shorter distances more often (4 or 5 runs a week instead of 2-3) to get my mileage in and avoid injury.

Just bought a pair of Brooks Caldera 2 trail shoes - first impressions are good. Reasonable support and cushioning - and true to my normal size 10 unlike Salomon Speedcross which are made for runners with four toes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 21 August, 2018, 09:04:45 pm
I now have a running target again, for about this time next year.  Next year the Islay Half Marathon is on the day before the Ride of the Falling Rain, adn I have the idea to do the double.  I've not run more than about 45min/8km in the last two years.  It's a matter of both managing fitness and the effect of the bone spurs in my big toe joints.

Wish me luck. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Legs on 22 August, 2018, 11:51:25 am
Well done CET!  That sounds like a really good run.  Lots of admiration for being able to motivate yourself to run hard over a non-competitive course.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 22 August, 2018, 01:26:52 pm
Just read that, nice one CET!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 22 August, 2018, 07:41:31 pm
first purposeful run in about two years, the starting point for my target of running the Islay half this time next year. 

Mixed on and offroad, about 60% off, slow, HR a bi higher than I'd like for the pace.  It always surprises me exactly how specific endurance is to any sport, two years ago this wouldn't have troubled me at all, but today it was hard work.  5km markers coming in at 28:07 / 5:37 pace and 28:59 / 5:47 pace, including a 400m walk while I tested blood glucose. 

THis session met both my goal of 10km and 1 hour including walking cooldown. I think I'll consolidate for a bit around 10km before getting too ambitious.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 29 August, 2018, 12:53:40 pm
Nice one ElyDave - good to get back into the swing of it.

I did the Brockenhurst Parkrun (and beat MiniQ  ;D) on Saturday, ran 4.6 miles in the New Forest on Monday and did 3.7 miles locally back home this morning.  Strategy of lots of shorter runs for the time being seems to be working.  Currently doing around 15 miles a week and looking to stick in a couple of longer runs ahead of the Clarendon Half Marathon in October.  I know I can do the distance - I just need to stay injury free and tapping out the base miles.  Given it's a trail half marathon the time isn't particularly important to me, but I'd like to come in under 2hr 15m.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 29 August, 2018, 09:07:43 pm
cheers Q, I have a HM training plan I've used previously which is a 10 week plan, with a suggested starting point of an 8 mile long run, so plenty f time to get back to that.

Ran on Monday again, but only 8km with very heavy legs after another 160km day on the bike on Saturday.  I think the run/bike balance will need some adjustment
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 03 September, 2018, 07:06:03 am
I did my first 10,000 m track race last night. It was a case of shutting off my brain for the first part to avoid trying to count down the twenty five laps. It was good fun with the crowd & being able to hear the commentator on the PA system.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 03 September, 2018, 09:54:58 am
kit question time! (poss better in Other Knowledge?)

Twin/2-in-1 shorts.  Fact me up!  I've never used them. What's the benefit compared to a normal 5" short?  Compression? Warmth? Extra support around the gentleman vegetables?

The weather is getting cooler (9C on this morning's run) and I'm looking for slightly warmer options.  I'm normally ok in basic 5" shorts down to 5C or lower if I keep my top half, head and hands warm, but as I move into running longer distances (therefore a bit slower) I suspect I might need something that keeps the muscles a bit warmer if I take a walk/feed break.

Recommendations?

Also - anyone else here doing the Clarendon Marathon/Half Marathon in October?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 03 September, 2018, 10:18:08 am
I have a few pairs and tend to use them for a couple of reasons, pretty much what you've IDd below
- 1 as you say, cooler weather but not requiring leggings yet
2 - if you are susceptible to thigh chafing they can be handy (i'm not in general, apart from with my very short Ron Hill track shorts)
3) for other sports - yoga, keeping the viewing public protected and on the indoor rower can reduce chafing of teh arse.
iv - can also be a bit compressy for longer runs depending which you buy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 03 September, 2018, 04:46:37 pm
My best running shorts are these.  When I was getting into running, on one trip, I realised that I'd packed my running shoes but not shorts, so delved into what I expected to be the most expensive place to buy kit  (Zurich Airport) and they were what came recommended.  For all of the reasons you have suggested, and they've been my shorts on most of my ultra-events, where I've not run in longs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 03 September, 2018, 07:32:30 pm
another run for me tonight, just 8km but instead of running to HR I ran by feel and PE.  Pace dropped off from about 5:00/km to about 5:20.  Plan is another 8-10km on Thursday as well.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 03 September, 2018, 08:23:19 pm
When it's too cold for shorts I wear ¾ leggings, for example: http://www.wiggle.co.uk/under-armour-run-true-heatgear-capri or https://www.prodirectrunning.com/products/Asics-3-4-Tight-Performance-Black-Mens-Clothing-1533690904-174104.aspx

I'll wear a short shorts over the top to preserve some modesty, eg: https://www.decathlon.co.uk/kiprun-split-mens-shorts-id_8488094.html
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: fuaran on 03 September, 2018, 08:28:45 pm
2 in 1 shorts are also good if you want pockets. If they have pockets on the inner shorts, it means it doesn't bounce around so much.
I have some Ronhill shorts like this. Handy if I want to carry gloves, buff, bit of food, camera etc, without a bag.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 03 September, 2018, 08:49:52 pm
oddly I never wear 3/4 either on the bike or running, just swap from shorts to longs.  3/4's just seem to look a bit odd to me on blokes, although i'm sure Adamski has the "charisma" to pull it off.

My knee warmers have only seen action a handful of times in the 5+years I've had them. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 03 September, 2018, 10:49:08 pm
Cheers for the knowledge. I’ll be getting a pair “shortly” ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 05 September, 2018, 09:14:41 pm
2 in 1 shorts are also good if you want pockets. If they have pockets on the inner shorts, it means it doesn't bounce around so much.
I have some Ronhill shorts like this. Handy if I want to carry gloves, buff, bit of food, camera etc, without a bag.

I use a small bumbag, which carries phone, keys or hotel keys if I'm running when away, and I can also fit a couple of small brioche rolls squidged down or an energy bar.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 06 September, 2018, 12:49:35 am
A flipbelt is a lighter alternative for carrying stuff.

I generally have a bit more to carry so I've ended up with a 2L hydro bag from Mountain Warehouse and I don't use the bladder. Enough to fit a bit more than just wallet/keys/etc but not bounce around annoyingly on longer runs.

(Plus I'm too cheap to buy a proper Salomon running vest.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 10 September, 2018, 11:54:48 am
How's everyone's running going?

I had a good weekend, beating my PB over a local 4.5 mile route on Friday night (in the dark with a headtorch) and shaving 16s off my 5k route this morning before work.  Now I've managed several weeks without injury running ~16 miles a week the aim is to drop in a few longer runs between now and the Clarendon half in October.  So I've pencilled in the Pangbourne 10k this coming weekend and then I'll try and do a ~9 miler the following weekend before tapering a bit ahead of the half.

Also, have you seen that Paul Sinton-Hewitt - he of Parkrun founder status - is launching a new ethical sports clothing company in the next month?  Aims to be European manufactured with fair wage labour rates, wider range of sizes to make sports more inclusive etc.  Profits to Parkrun.  https://www.drapersonline.com/news/parkrun-founder-to-launch-new-sportswear-brand/7032038.article
Looks interesting.  On teh Twitters @ContraMovement and t'interweb at www.contra-movement.com
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 12 September, 2018, 09:22:34 am
Nipples :o

Top tips please for avoiding joggers tit. With my increased mileage, colder weather and running in the rain with a wet technical t-shirt I'm starting to suffer from sensitivity of the old nip-naps.  And it's not nice.  The last time I suffered from this was years ago after a rainy 10k race.

What's the advice from the forum for avoiding this before it turns into full blown moob chafage?  Bodyglide? Sticky plasters (tricky, as I'm descended from wookies)?  Nip Guards or something else?

Ta in advance.

p.s. broke my 4.5 mile route PB again this morning. Which shows how rubbish I was to start with ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 12 September, 2018, 10:39:10 am
Two bits of micropore tape in an X over each.

I use it on any run of 10km or more when it's raining, and any HM or more even if it is dry.

Hurts a bit to take it off (easier if done in the post run shower/bath), but anything that sticks less and comes off easier will tend to fall off during the run which is not good.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 13 September, 2018, 10:39:18 pm
Nipples :o

Top tips please for avoiding joggers tit. With my increased mileage, colder weather and running in the rain with a wet technical t-shirt I'm starting to suffer from sensitivity of the old nip-naps.  And it's not nice.  The last time I suffered from this was years ago after a rainy 10k race.

What's the advice from the forum for avoiding this before it turns into full blown moob chafage?  Bodyglide? Sticky plasters (tricky, as I'm descended from wookies)?  Nip Guards or something else?

Ta in advance.

p.s. broke my 4.5 mile route PB again this morning. Which shows how rubbish I was to start with ::-)

I don’t really have any suggestions as I’ve not suffered to an extent to investigate, but you reminded me of a colleague who finished the Leeds half with two very red streams of blood down his t-shirt . Ouch.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 14 September, 2018, 08:36:31 am
two runs for me this week, both in windy Aberdeen, 8km adn 9km. 

Forgot my HR strap this week, so ran to effort, what I thought was sustainable.  Flat paced turns out I can hold around 5:10/km which was a bit of a surprise to me, didn't think it would be anywhere near that. 

Not sure if I could hold that for an HM yet though - by comparison, my HM PB is something like 1h 42
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 14 September, 2018, 08:50:17 am
Nipples :o

Top tips please for avoiding joggers tit. With my increased mileage, colder weather and running in the rain with a wet technical t-shirt I'm starting to suffer from sensitivity of the old nip-naps.  And it's not nice.  The last time I suffered from this was years ago after a rainy 10k race.

What's the advice from the forum for avoiding this before it turns into full blown moob chafage?  Bodyglide? Sticky plasters (tricky, as I'm descended from wookies)?  Nip Guards or something else?

Ta in advance.

p.s. broke my 4.5 mile route PB again this morning. Which shows how rubbish I was to start with ::-)

Stripper's tassels?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 14 September, 2018, 09:10:36 am
Joggers nipple . . .

Vaseline can help, although you'll end up with greasy stains in odd places.

Don't use bandaids, they can rip the skin right off.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: JJ on 14 September, 2018, 04:46:41 pm
Surgical tape.  Less fierce on the body hair than regular plasters.
Also some tech tops are smother and less abrasive than others.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 16 September, 2018, 09:45:45 pm
How's everyone's running going?

PB at Berlin this morning suggests my running is going well :D (The 3½ weeks of high altitude training in Iten, Kenya clearly worked.)

Lyon half in three weeks - target is <75.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 16 September, 2018, 10:07:06 pm
Wowsers, well done Adamski  :o. Great running.
Well done ElyDave too.

On the nipple subject I used Micropore in an X across each moob today and got a personal best of 49:55 in the Pangbourne 10k.  Nips fine but the Micropore tugged the chest wig sufficiently to leave it feeling bruised around the nipples. Next run I’ll either shave and tape up or try the Vaseline or Bodyglide approach instead.
Well happy with my PB though. It’s only taken 49 years to get a sub 50!  Bodes well for a decent (PB) half marathon time in a few weeks.

Are any of you lot doing the Great South Run? Ive not entered yet but am likely to.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 16 September, 2018, 10:46:17 pm
How's everyone's running going?

PB at Berlin this morning suggests my running is going well :D (The 3½ weeks of high altitude training in Iten, Kenya clearly worked.)

Lyon half in three weeks - target is <75.

Cracking on a bit there eh;)

Probably best not to mention Iten, or be photographed with your coach!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 17 September, 2018, 06:43:13 am
Probably best not to mention Iten, or be photographed with your coach!

I don't have a coach - I'm not spending a £100 a month to have someone tell me to go running!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Legs on 18 September, 2018, 03:57:22 pm
Great consistent splits, Adam!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 19 September, 2018, 09:14:47 am
School[1] running club this morning for Y5/Y6. 4km with a few stops to regroup.

Of course they all set off at <5min/km pace but it thankfully settled down to something sensible.

(My daughter preferred to stay and play football at before school club than come running. Fair enough.)

1. Technically not organised by the school but just by some of the parents.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 19 September, 2018, 04:31:51 pm
Great consistent splits, Adam!

Thanks - it was a one second negative split  :D The slowest 5 km were the first 5 km as I tried to get some clear space. That was despite my start being only 20 seconds delayed. It felt like I spent the whole race overtaking people, which is always a decent feeling.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 21 September, 2018, 06:23:05 am
Some thoughts about my run around Berlin are below. Hidden behind the spoiler as it's a bit long.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 21 September, 2018, 08:28:26 am
I knew I needed to be running each 5 km section in 18:20

Great stuff Adam, you just ran my 5kPB 8 times in a row.   :thumbsup:

that is truly an excellent standard for a marathon
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 21 September, 2018, 08:33:03 am
Great write up.
Conveys a lot of the sense of concentration. Some people say "Isn't it boring, running/cycling/paddling" for all that time. The truth is, to break a PB requires concentration all the way. Constantly checking form, checking pace, hydration, feeding, distance covered, distance to go, monitoring your body. Let up even for a minute and  you will falter and lose pace.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 23 September, 2018, 04:04:25 pm
Long slow trail run of 11.6 miles at 7am in atrocious conditions this morning. Made it round fine, although I lost the Micropore nip protection at 4 miles in the wet and ended up shredded. I’d use proper fabric tape for its superior stickiness but I’m allergic to regular Elastoplast.
Pretty sure the legs will be a bit sore tomorrow.
Nice out and back route over the Wessex downs.  Unfortunately the rain had draped a long section of the path with nettles so I got stung to hell.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 23 September, 2018, 06:15:22 pm
That's the problem with this time of year.  It's too warm for longs but the nettles fall everywhere and you get stung if you wear shorts.  There's a couple of trails that I avoid exactly because of this.

Good effort in the rain, though.  Bet it was slippery and boggy.  I went for a ride and the roads were flooded in places.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 24 September, 2018, 06:51:43 pm
HRM-Tri strap has given up the ghost (not surprising as it's had heavy usage for over 3 years, surprised it lasted this long).

£99 brand new full RRP replacement. £72 on wiggle.

Emailed Garmin support about it and they'll do an out of warranty replacement (if I send the broken one in) for £46.58 (inc P&P). That's a lot more reasonable.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 27 September, 2018, 12:20:12 pm
That sounds helpful Greenbank. I hear mostly positive things about Garmin customer support on Teh Twitters.
Steady 5k recovery run last night as legs a bit sore from the 11 miler on Sunday. Quiet week this week tapering for the Clarendon trail half marathon.
I won a prize this week.....free entry to the Windermere Marathon next May. I’ve never done a marathon before. First time for everything.  ;D :facepalm:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 02 October, 2018, 09:58:04 pm
Having barely ridden my bike since LEL, and with work so hectic, I can't spare the time to be out for long hours in the saddle, I am in my Altras (a godsend for me) more than on two wheels. Got a regular 16km/400m trail route up the hill from Langsett, and am currently playing with thoughts of being in shape for the Dark Peak 30 this time next year. Not sure I can face joining a club, so just trudge along at whatever pace feels bearable at about 150bpm.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 03 October, 2018, 12:40:40 am
so just trudge along at whatever pace feels bearable at about 150bpm.

HR is very variable amongst individuals, it needs context.

150bpm is barely jogging for me whereas adamski does his first half of a sub-3h marathon below 150bpm.

c.f. this:-

(http://www.greenbank.org/misc/hr_footy.png)

(172bpm average, 199bpm max and it was a relatively leisurely game...)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 03 October, 2018, 09:08:03 am
Having barely ridden my bike since LEL, and with work so hectic, I can't spare the time to be out for long hours in the saddle, I am in my Altras (a godsend for me) more than on two wheels. Got a regular 16km/400m trail route up the hill from Langsett, and am currently playing with thoughts of being in shape for the Dark Peak 30 this time next year. Not sure I can face joining a club, so just trudge along at whatever pace feels bearable at about 150bpm.

What Altras have you got?  I knew a bloke involved in the marketing who managed to wangle me 2 pairs of Samsons before they dropped the minimalist approach.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 03 October, 2018, 01:29:30 pm
3rd run for school running club. Doing 5k yesterday and playing 1h20 of 5-a-side last night meant it was full of aches but nice to be forced out on the paths.

1/6 of Y5 and Y6 do it, which isn't too shabby. It'll probably increase in the summer term with some of the Y4 lot joining in if we get a few more volunteer parents.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 05 October, 2018, 08:32:00 am
Having barely ridden my bike since LEL, and with work so hectic, I can't spare the time to be out for long hours in the saddle, I am in my Altras (a godsend for me) more than on two wheels. Got a regular 16km/400m trail route up the hill from Langsett, and am currently playing with thoughts of being in shape for the Dark Peak 30 this time next year. Not sure I can face joining a club, so just trudge along at whatever pace feels bearable at about 150bpm.

What Altras have you got?  I knew a bloke involved in the marketing who managed to wangle me 2 pairs of Samsons before they dropped the minimalist approach.

Paradigms - done a year in them, and Olympus waiting at the shop.

@Greenbank - 145-150bpm is around what I sit at at FTP on my turbo (tacx neo). It feels like my maximum "you could do this forever" hr.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 06 October, 2018, 05:43:00 pm
dropped my daughter off for a ballet class this afternoon and went for a run. 12km in just over 1 hour, so just about 5:00/km pace.  HR still a bit higher than I'd like, but it was bloody windy out there, damp as well.  Ended up tying the waterproof round my waist as I was overheating with it on.

Pretty happy with that as I was planning on getting to a 12km run in December.  Blood sugar behaved as well, which is always good.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 06 October, 2018, 06:06:10 pm
I ran my first event today.  I've been running since about October last year (wobble jogging really) and had worked up to 10km by February.  But I'd mostly just been running as and when I felt like - mostly 5km pre-breakfast plods, very occasional longer weekend run (10-12km).  So in a fit of madness, I entered the local half marathon a month ago, which was today.

The last few weeks I've been attempting to get 16km+ runs in on a weekend, to be sure I'd be capable.  Goal was 1. finish; 2. sub-2 hour; 3. sub 1:50 if at all possible (based on my fastest training run, I thought I could maybe do 1:52.

I got over-excited at the start and went off a bit too quick.  The 10km runners start all mixed in with the half runners, and run the first 6km together, so some people are setting off properly quick. I remembered to turn in down at about 1.5km, so I didn't go off bonkers quick, but looked at my watch at 8km and realised I was still quicker that I had intended to pace.  I felt ok, so thought 'sod it', and carried on at that pace. I'd found someone who was running at similar pace, so just stuck to him.  There  were a couple of big uphill kicks at 16-17km, but most of the last 4km was sort of downhill, so I knew if I could get to 17km, I'd be ok.  Finished in 1:41:20, which was massively quicker than expected.  Hurrah!  It was also good enough for 31st of 269, an age category win and 3rd female.  Double hurrah  :D :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 06 October, 2018, 06:32:37 pm
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

way to go Jasmine!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 06 October, 2018, 11:55:21 pm
Wow!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: guidon on 07 October, 2018, 07:46:09 pm
Well done! You were no slouch on the bike too I seem to remember from long ago... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 07 October, 2018, 09:55:51 pm
Congrats, that is good.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 08 October, 2018, 03:18:05 pm
Well done! You were no slouch on the bike too I seem to remember from long ago... :thumbsup:

I lost a lot of form and fitness over the last few years.  Haven't ridden a TT in 3 years and had ballooned to pretty overweight.  Weirdly, a side effect of becoming (unexpectedly) single 6 months ago was that I lost a fair bit of weight and suddenly found that I could commit time to exercise that I previously hadn't been.  It's really good to have something to show for the exercise!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: tonyh on 08 October, 2018, 03:52:54 pm
Congrats Jasmine, and all the best to you!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 08 October, 2018, 05:59:28 pm
Great result Jasmine.

Went for a hilly on-off-on road run this lunchtime and tried to do a shorter faster run. According to the numbers elevate gives, I did 12km at an average 89hrss/hr. On Friday I'd run a rocky 26km between Langsett and Derwent at average 74hrss/hr.

Back on Zwift tomorrow, but going to go out with a running club for the first time on Wednesday for a 9m @ 8m30s mile pace run. I think I would be okay in the 8m mile group, but in that it's the first time I have been out with them, I'd rather be able to speak.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 08 October, 2018, 08:56:21 pm
Great result Jasmine
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 08 October, 2018, 10:08:59 pm
Jasmin: 1:41 for a half as a first race is a way to go :thumbsup: :thumbsup:. I've got friends doing some decent training who'd be very happy with that time. Now be careful, it can get addictive. I should know having decided to still have a crack at the Lyon half on Sunday despite fracturing my wrist a week prior to the race. Everything was paid for so it would seem silly to just sit at home!

It turns out I can run a half with a fracture, and get a PB too. I'd originally targeted sub 75, but all things considered am very happy with 76:00.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 09 October, 2018, 01:31:54 pm
<stands back and watches the speedy people ;D>
Great running Jasmine/Adamski!

I completed the Clarendon trail half marathon on Sunday in 2:08:31, about 7 minutes quicker than I did the Hants Hoppit in June and on a course with 200' more climbing.  The Clarendon is a great event - really well organised - but tough.  Ideal weather though.  I got my pacing wrong and set off a bit quick aiming (optimistically as it turns out) to get round under 2 hours.  Turns out the first 10k or so had the toughest climbs so I started struggling badly after 11 miles and got overtaken a lot but hung in for my best result this year nonetheless.  I reckon I might scrape under 2 hours on a flatter road run.
Next outing, Great South Run on the 21st.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 09 October, 2018, 02:19:10 pm
I think you might be right about it being addictive Admaski.  I live somewhere very hilly (straight out of the house is either a 10% hill up, or 10% hill down) and I tend to do a lot of my running before breakfast, so when I find it hard to judge if I'm getting better.  I went for a run in Cardiff this morning from the hotel and I ran 10km at a pace that I would have been flat out and dying at only 3 months ago.

Unfortunately, the logical conclusion is that I should find a training plan and actively try to train, rather than just do some more running.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 09 October, 2018, 03:51:15 pm
Unfortunately, the logical conclusion is that I should find a training plan and actively try to train, rather than just do some more running.

Well my mate (2:16 marathon runner) says "Run. Run more. Just f**king run." ;D

Is there a local club? You may feel you aren't a good enough runner for one but with a 1:41 half you definitely are!

Have you tried parkrun? 5 km workout and you can easily measure improvements if you turn up fairly regularly. http://www.parkrun.org.uk/penrhyn/ (You're still in Bangor, right?)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 09 October, 2018, 08:51:10 pm
Yes, probably ought to haul myself to a Parkrun, given that I live all of 3 miles from that one.  I've done a couple of speed training sessions with a local club, and you are right, they aren't all super fast (although a lot of the ones who compete are).  They do a series of out and back intervals, so it doesn't actually matter if you are slow. Another reason for going to the club sessions is to meet more people too.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 09 October, 2018, 11:26:37 pm
some great achievements here lately - congratulations!
meanwhile:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181009/a9f458c6b5d0bf6c11a9ad11c09c6b62.jpg)
a winter on trainerroad again, methinks
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 14 October, 2018, 12:07:50 pm
You don't need an event to run a marathon.  You can do one from your front door (which is how I set my fastest one).  I use the MapMyRun app to give me a summary of pace for each kilometre.  If you get to 43 (800m) over marathon distance, you can be fairly comfortable you've done the 26 miles and however many yards it takes.

Meanwhile I laced up my running shoes and went for a run in Brighton yesterday, having stayed over after the Joanne Shaw Taylor gig at the Concorde, and managed half-marathon number 69, mostly on the undercliff road, but with a few detours onto the grass trails on the cliff-top and one beach section (shingle, slippery rocks - which did slow me to a walk, and a ramp covered in green slime that was impossible to walk up and I had to find some steps.)  Most of those have been done in training / on my own rather than events.

I was a bit worried about going so far after a 2 month layoff, but went cycling in the rain today with no ill effects, so I'm hoping to ramp up the distances quickly to get prepared for my next running challenge - West Byfleet to Basingstoke following the Basingstoke canal, which is as near as makes no difference 60km.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 17 October, 2018, 11:47:41 pm
Made the silly decision to go with the "medium-fast" group on my 2nd time out with running club, despite only having had 4 hours sleep. Medium fast meant running with people who do ultras. One of the chaps had done the (108 mile) Spine Challenger in under 40 hours, with no sleep. Despite dropping back a bit on the big climb, they said I am in the right group. Hopefully it will become less painful.

http://thumbsnap.com/f/F4BF1Jnh
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 20 October, 2018, 02:35:25 pm
3 x dreadmill runs here this week - too hot and humid for outdoors, even at 7:30 am when I went out for a walk this morning I was sweating buckets

2 x 8km  at 5:00/km pace and 0% incline, just getting the legs used to moving quicker adn keeping the HR down

today 10km using one of the "lets run through pretty scenery" workouts with an average incline of 2%, in 51:54.  Not my fastest, but a nice steady training pace.  HR up to 155.

It's coming back.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 21 October, 2018, 07:04:45 pm
4 weeks in to getting back into running and finally starting to not completely utterly hate running. (Being fat and unfit rarely helps but being 3kg down in that time might have something to do with it.)

Almost, dare I say it, enjoyed the last few runs too. Still a long way to go.

When I get down to 90kg (mid/late December probably) I'll reward myself by adding in intervals again. Ugh, but they work so well it's hard not to.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 22 October, 2018, 01:29:46 pm
Good effort Greenbank.  Still with the base work until you feel ready to move it up a notch.

I finished the Great South Run 2 seconds under my target time of 1 hour 30 mins.  Running with a stinking cold and getting over a calf strain (so no running for the last 10 days) I was happy with that.  Good atmosphere but oh my goodness the amount of plastic waste would make David Attenborough weep.  The bins along the seafront were all overflowing and bottles drifting about the place towards the beach.  Good job it wasn't windy and I hope the organisers / Portsmouth city council are on the case.
No further events booked yet.  I'll settle back into gradually building base miles again and gently ramping up the long Sunday run for a couple of months I think.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 24 October, 2018, 01:22:11 pm
2 days off after a heavy week and legs felt fresher. A 2018 record of 29:25 for my usual 5k (in reverse), definitely pushed harder at the end knowing that I was on for a record.

Unsurprisingly a bunch of new records for 2018:-
* Fastest 1km = 5:14 (as the first half of the run is slightly uphill the end of the run is mostly downhill, total elevation gain is only 30m though)
* Fastest mile = 8:44
* Highest VDOT (31.64) - still a long way to go to get to 43
* Lowest beats per mile (1521) which is something I read about on Steve Way's running blog as a way of measuring cardio running fitness (can't imagine getting to 800 like he does)

Weight also down to 95.2kg (again, a long way to go).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 25 October, 2018, 12:20:56 pm
Moving up to the "medium-fast" group in running club is helping get my speed and weekly TSS up. Did 7.4km at 4.39m/km (first time it's been sub 5m pace this year) on Monday, decent SST session on Zwift on Tuesday, then did hill reps with the club last night. I spent most of the reps being last to the top, but for the last 3 I managed mid pack - still I was fit to puke by the end, and my left calf and achilles are tweaky this morning - the session was 107HRSS, with a HRSS/hr of 87.4, but that's because we ran to the place we did reps and back. My LTHR is 165-168, and my best 20m last night was 166. It was really tough.

Looking back at 2017, I spent from BCM on in the run up to LEL at ~100CTL, but in prepping for my hernia repair in the January, I was up at 126CTL. My homelife was miserable, but damn, I felt strong.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 29 October, 2018, 09:48:42 am
Chilly 11 mile long, slow, mostly trail run yesterday.  Felt ok during and after.  Touch of the DOMS in the knees this morning though.  Prior to this year I'd only ever run over 10 miles on six occasions - each was a half marathon 25 to 30 years ago.  I've now done four runs of 10 miles+ in the last 5 weeks so I'm definitely fitter than I've ever been.  Rest day today.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 01 November, 2018, 04:49:00 pm
Sneaked in a 21087m run yesterday from the Hotel Stucki in Basel, along the Wiese almost as far as Haagen, and back.  Or as you could put it, I ran across an international border when no one was looking and 45 minutes later I ran back again.  The joys of Schengen.  I think it's my 12th unrecorded foray into Germany and back again.  It was a nice way to bring up half-marathon number 70.  A colleague has pointed me in the direction of the Race to the Stones (100km to Avebury along the Ridgeway next summer, which might also get me points for the Madiera Island Ultra Trail.  That's worrying.  I might have to start a new topic - Cross Training: Cycling.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 01 November, 2018, 05:17:07 pm
Cross Training: Cycling.

It's over-rated.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 02 November, 2018, 05:19:13 pm
Accidental CDC on today's run: https://www.strava.com/activities/1941598218

(Will work on improving it on my Friday work run next week.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 02 November, 2018, 07:23:39 pm
Humm.

About 20 years ago, when the world was black-and-white and all, I used to do some trail running.
So for reasons I can't quite explain, I've kicked it off again.

My first attempt was 5k, where I set off too fast and my calf muscles tightened up to the point they were threatning to cramp at 3k.  I was doing a 4:30/k when I set off.
I was sore for a week after that.

I've wound it down a bit, and a week in London menat I was off the bike so I did some early-morning 5 to 7 runs along the riverside.
I've been experimenting a bit with what pace works for me, and I've found that 5:30/k leaves me un-affected, but feels too slow.
At 5:00/k, I am starting to feel in my calfs after 5k.

I've found that by lengthening my stride, particularly behind me, I can stretch out my calfs a bit more as I go.

So I'm now 4 x 5k runs into this nonsense!



Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 02 November, 2018, 07:28:07 pm
Sneaked in a 21087m run yesterday from the Hotel Stucki in Basel, along the Wiese almost as far as Haagen, and back. 

Didn't fancy the extra 10m to make it a half marathon then?  ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 02 November, 2018, 07:38:51 pm
Sneaked in a 21087m run yesterday from the Hotel Stucki in Basel, along the Wiese almost as far as Haagen, and back. 

Didn't fancy the extra 10m to make it a half marathon then?  ;)

I walked up the stairs to my room on the 3rd floor afterwards rather than taking the lift  :smug: 

I shouldn't be particularly precise in that area.  Running along the Swiss German border means my phone switches signals from German providers to Swiss providers and can give some rather bizarre tracking results on MapMyRun.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 02 November, 2018, 08:05:30 pm
Cross training : Hobbling

1.8km in about 27-30 minutes. It's a start >:(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 02 November, 2018, 09:17:16 pm


My first attempt was 5k, where I set off too fast and my calf muscles tightened up to the point they were threatning to cramp at 3k.  I was doing a 4:30/k when I set off.
I was sore for a week after that.


On the advice of my cycle club captain I took it very easy when I took up running at the tender age of 47.  His point was that as a long distance cyclist I had the aerobic fitness and endurance to run 100 miles, and the connective tissue and little balancing muscles that could complain after 1.  My golden rule is not to run more than once a week (well, at least 4 days between runs), to let the legs recover.  And I stretch, pretty much religiously, for 15 minutes after every run.

I can't say whether its the best policy, but it's enabled me to run the half marathon distance or more 70 times in the last 7 years with a dodgy groin and arthritic damage in big toes without any further damage.  Calf stretches are particular important for me because of the stiff toes (apparently - when I saw the specialist he had a trainee physiotherapist in tow and was explaining that fact.  He also told me I shouldn't run and stick to cycling because of the toes.  But they haven't fallen off yet, so I'm carrying on while I still can.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 03 November, 2018, 12:37:03 am
Doing mostly cycling is awful for running (if you don't do anything to mitigate that), but running less frequently only reinforces that IMHO.

I run 4-6 times a week although I don't Audax anywhere near as much as I used to. If you've got a sensible plan then frequency isn't a problem.

I can't say whether its the best policy, but it's enabled me to run the half marathon distance or more 70 times in the last 7 years with a dodgy groin and arthritic damage in big toes without any further damage. 

I'm looking to build up to a HM every week. YMMobviouslyV.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 04 November, 2018, 08:43:35 am
Cycling does nothing for my running as my heart rate is too low.

Running fitness, however, transfers straight over to cycling.

My post Berlin marathon fitness is kicking in over the short distance. I ran a 5 km PB yesterday at Mile End ParkRun, how I can run faster there than a track 5000 it's crazy but I'm not complaining at 15:57.

For anyone interested the ballot for Berlin marathon 2019 closes on 7 November.
https://www.bmw-berlin-marathon.com/m/
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 04 November, 2018, 10:00:31 am
Cycling does nothing for my running as my heart rate is too low.

Running fitness, however, transfers straight over to cycling.

My post Berlin marathon fitness is kicking in over the short distance. I ran a 5 km PB yesterday at Mile End ParkRun, how I can run faster there than a track 5000 it's crazy but I'm not complaining at 15:57.

For anyone interested the ballot for Berlin marathon 2019 closes on 7 November.
https://www.bmw-berlin-marathon.com/m/
Chapeau!

Sent from my Lenovo P2a42 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 04 November, 2018, 11:32:40 am
adamski, don't discount the training in madeira! well done for the sub-16 5k :O
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 04 November, 2018, 11:49:33 am
Crikey Adamski, that's a bit quick!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 04 November, 2018, 03:01:33 pm
my recovery continues - 2km in about 35mins
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 06 November, 2018, 04:42:26 pm
Crikey Adamski, that's a bit quick!

He rides a bike pretty quick too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: adenough on 07 November, 2018, 05:31:06 pm
I used to run marathons in my 30s. They always hurt and each time vowed, never again. Gave it up for years. I now run or jog just 4 miles off road. I really enjoy it. I find running easy. Much easier than the bike in some respects. Running uphill for me is easier than riding uphill. I have no idea why. I could run much further I reckon, but I've had a bad knee problem which started on a run, so now I chicken out. I don't know whether to push it or not.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 09 November, 2018, 07:53:22 pm
Blimey, that is going some, Adamski.

I'm running jogging again.  My borked knee seems to have responded to kayaking and now tolerates a gentle jog. 3 gentle jogs in a week - first at 6min perkm pace, strava reckons that the last was 4.5 per km. I think strava was having a fit, I was still going at 6 per pace.

That's still only about the same speed I can paddle a kayak for the same distance, but it is a start. Something to keep fitness up when I don't get out of work in time to go paddling.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: phantasmagoriana on 11 November, 2018, 07:41:36 pm
Went for a bit of a run (ok, jog) tonight, because I CBA to cycle in the rain this morning and felt as though I should at least do something other than hibernate in the flat all day. Decided to forego earphones and came to the conclusion that actually, running is tolerable without music. I've never tried it before, as I've always just assumed that it's so tedious some distraction is necessary. But it was fine.

I've decided to not bother with Strava or timing or stuff for now, and just go at a gentle pace - i.e. slower than I "think" I should be going. It seems more sustainable that way.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 11 November, 2018, 08:35:16 pm
A new thing for me today, did a half marathon after cycling 200km yesterday.  It wasn't what I'd normally plan but the opportunity was there - firstly to get a long ride in yesterday (Mrs CET was in Sheffield with CET Junior 2, who won a medal in the British Trampoling Club League finals) and then the run, CET Junior in his last year at Pangbourne College  and in the band has to do the remembrance service at 11.00 and then another one in the village later on, which gave me a couple of hours, so I headed off to Aldworth and ran along the Ridgeway and back, a bit of a recce for the Race to the Stones 100km which I've entered (next July).  I wasn't sure how I would go with a long ride in the legs but, having had a quite a stressful day, set off what I felt was a bit too hard, and ran my second fastest half of the year (the faster one being on a particular quickest of trails).

Will have a go at upping the mileage to 20 next week, weather, family, etc permitting.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 11 November, 2018, 08:54:51 pm
My cousin's daughter was also in those trampolining finals.  Good running.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 21 November, 2018, 08:23:54 pm
No running at the moment, bruised foot (not from running) but just completed 1000km on the bike in November (only the second time to make that milestone in November and the other time was when on gardening leave.  So perhaps the cross training is working.  Courtesy of my Airnimal the miles have been done in 4 countries (although don’t tell the Germans - they don’t know I entered their country).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 21 November, 2018, 08:56:36 pm
I stopped running in the summer as I was getting a repeated calf pain, but seem to have started again as time and enthusiasm for long rides has been in short supply. I’m back to 25 minutes and looking at a 10k and half marathon I could aim at next year. Also <whisper> avoiding bike rides to make space for the running </whisper>. I just hope I can do it without hurting myself this time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 21 November, 2018, 11:42:01 pm
Ran 15km at an average 4m50s pace with running club, and despite me averaging 6bpm off my HR lactate threshold, and my best 20min being within 1bpm of it, I felt ace all the way round, and did quite a bit of chatting. There were some proper runners there though. They looked like they literally weren't trying. They also looked like they weighed about 50kg! BMI is back down in the 20.x range, which is making everything easier. 19.x is maybe possible this side of Xmas, but doubtful by January :)

Need to start doing some longer runs. Have asked if I can tag along with some of the marathon training runs at weekends. I have entry for the Grindleford Gallop trail race in March, which is 21 miles and 3000ft of climbing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 22 November, 2018, 05:18:20 pm
Walked two miles this morning.  Still using the stick, but less weight on it
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 24 November, 2018, 07:15:58 pm
I don't understand running. I've done two track sessions over the past three months and yet keep setting PBs. Sunday was 32:29 at the Adidas Fulham 10 km and today it was 15:37 at Long Eaton parkrun. Now if I can keep this fitness until the start of the Londonn marathon.........
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 27 November, 2018, 09:03:38 am
Those are great numbers!

I ran to and from the garage to get my car serviced. On the way back, I noticed increasing pain at the top/inside of my thigh. Hip and leg is sore / stiff this morning, and the piriformis stretches that I haven't been doing are sore. Not sure what I have done, but I won't be running today, and maybe not until the weekend. It's really uncomfortable.

Shames, as I'd managed to get back above 50CTL.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 02 December, 2018, 08:57:02 pm
A wet half an hour up the nearest hill today. Covered 5km. Failed to stop to take any photos.

I’ve also entered the 10km around Birling Gap / Beachy Head   https://www.endurancelife.com/sussex  (https://www.endurancelife.com/sussex)

So I’m up to half the distance already, although not quite half the climb. My “plan” is for it to be a comfortable step on the way to further rather that for it to break me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 12 December, 2018, 11:31:36 am
In the absence of getting out in a kayak, I'm trying to maintain fitness by jogging. I'm an indifferent runner, so 'jogging' is a good description (under 30min for 5km is reasonable for me). Only managing to get out once a week so far.

Last week jogged at 5:44 per km.

Last night decided I needed to be actually training if I had any expectation of being able to paddle at reasonable pace if I get back in a boat. Pushed pace and managed 5:08 per km

That's a good improvement in pace. What is a bit meh about it is that when paddling regularly (6 weeks ago), I was sustaining that speed in a kayak for 5km . . .
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 07 January, 2019, 02:45:41 pm
1st run of the year, indeed 1st proper run since December 5th (and that was only a gentle 4k outing with the Y5/Y6 children from my daughter's school) but a gentle 5k done.

16 weeks to go until London Marathon.
16kg heavier than I want to be when I run the marathon.

This is going to be a lot of (type 2) fun.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 11 January, 2019, 10:43:21 pm
Did get out for a run today.  The left foot was still sore, so have booked a physio appointment.  Reminders to book coaches for the Race to the Stones were not helpful.  Will console myself with a good long cycle tomorrow.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 12 January, 2019, 03:50:56 pm
i've done a tribute run today (8.6km) at 3:56 pace, feel pretty chuffed to be in a decent* (for me) running form again.

*sub-20 5k is my running fitness indicator. apparently only one percent of population practice jogging/running and out of those seven percent can go below 20min 5k.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 13 January, 2019, 08:56:58 pm
I got my running back over 5km today, for the first time in a while. At a rather more sedate smidge under 6min/km, which is my rough indicator of not taking it too easy but still allows for a photo at half way :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Aleksdad1 on 14 January, 2019, 04:08:11 pm
Like many folk I ran at school then decided cycling was for me so didn't run again until my late thirties when I did some marathons etc. including 17 min 5ks. Another big gap until a year or so when I started Parkruns to accompany my partner and have now managed to run 28 mins for the 5k. Still a lot slower than my partner who is doing 25s but is 10 yrs. younger at 63. Hoping to reach 25 mins this year if my gout, Raynauds, bad feet and heart arrhythmia allow. A lot more pleasant than cleaning a filthy winter bike in the cold and dark after every outing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: PaulF on 14 January, 2019, 04:29:07 pm
1.5 miles from his afternoon at 9.09 min/mile. Fourth day of exercise in a row so deliberately slower
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 14 January, 2019, 04:40:47 pm
i've done a tribute run today (8.6km) at 3:56 pace, feel pretty chuffed to be in a decent* (for me) running form again.

*sub-20 5k is my running fitness indicator. apparently only one percent of population practice jogging/running and out of those seven percent can go below 20min 5k.
One of my colleagues showed me her running stats.
18:54 5km
85min HM
3:03 M

Really quite fast.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 14 January, 2019, 09:51:57 pm


One of my colleagues showed me her running stats.
18:54 5km
85min HM
3:03 M

Really quite fast.

yes, one needs to be a dedicated, consistent runner to achieve those numbers!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 18 January, 2019, 11:40:14 am
Longest run for quite a while (6 months at least). 7km partial run commute (with the remaining 4.5km done on a Boris bike).

Upping the distance slowly as part of the early stages of marathon training. Will do 9km on Sunday and then full run commute (11.5km) next week.

Hoping to see the weight start to fall off now, exercise up, drinking gone and keeping an eye on portion control and eliminating unnecessary snacking.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 20 January, 2019, 03:04:42 pm
Physio suggests that problem with the foot may be Morton's Neuroma, which is a benign growth on the nerves between the second and third toes, but x-ray is required to rule out a stress fracture.  Initial treatment for both is rest - so no running.  Have deferred my Race to the Stones entry to 2020.  So won't be running for a while.

Consolation was the second 100-mile ride of the year, this time finding a route from Basingstoke round Portsmouth using the Gosport Ferry.  Was a really nice ride.

Good luck all with marathon and various other goals.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 21 January, 2019, 06:03:39 am
I have achieved a sub-20 5km in the past, but not for a while. In theory, my 10k and him should also be faster than they are.

For me, I'm still walking rather than running. Now able to walk for an hour at 9:00/km consistently, and managed 50km on the bike.

Target is hm in august, with plan to start running tentatively first week of Feb and see if there's any pain.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 21 January, 2019, 08:24:04 am
28.1km running last week, ~40km scheduled for this week.

Hello perpetual tiredness my old friend...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 25 January, 2019, 12:51:30 pm
First full run commute (11.8km) for almost exactly 2 years and longest run for at least 18 months.

Took it easy in order to keep the heart rate down (a relatively [for me] gentle 6:16/km pace) and didn't find it too horrid.

Plan has parkrun (or any other 5k run) tomorrow and then a 13km run on Sunday so I guess I'll be running along the Thames Path to Barnes and back.

One long term aim is to get the 11.8km run commute down to under an hour (5:05/km pace).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 25 January, 2019, 08:57:03 pm
sub 9:00/km on the thames paths in London last week.  Only problem was it induced a massive hypo as I'd not reduced my insulin. Ho Hum.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 25 January, 2019, 09:10:34 pm
Ho Humm. I've got a vague idea of doing a Skyrace in September.
This is 30k with 2500m of climb.
http://www.skylinescotland.com/ring-of-steall-skyrace/

I started running again, back in December.
I've not run since BC ( Before Children ), over 20 years ago.
In that 20 years, I've been on my bike, and I'd not realised quite how adapted to that I've become.
I'm finding it *very* hard to get my running back to where I need to be, but I do have till September.
I started at a flat 5k, and it nearly killed me.

I'm now doing lunchtime runs with people rather better than me.
There's a hilly lunchtime route I'm favouring, with about 200m of climb...
https://www.strava.com/activities/2100141698

I've been pushing it up, and have done about 11k hilly now.
( 2 laps on Arthur's seat in Embra ):
https://www.strava.com/activities/2075399919

Did my first proper hilly run last weekend, on the local hill of Bennachie.
Just short of 10k, with almost 600m of climb.
https://www.strava.com/activities/2091263626

A modest restart of fell running, but I'm not actually ded yet, so that's good.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 26 January, 2019, 02:31:27 pm
That first one looks like a good run, its surprisingly undulating through kingswells.  I'm up thee in a couple of weeks, staying at the Village, but not likely to be fit enough for that yet. 

Still sticking with the walking for now, planning a flat 5km ish in the coming week
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 27 January, 2019, 11:12:30 pm
Training for London has started properly which means my legs are constantly feeling battered. But I was chuffed to run my second fastest 5km at Hackney Marshes parkrun yesterday, which came during my biggest ever milage week. Now if I can avoid getting ill this winter......
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 28 January, 2019, 08:26:22 am
Resetting all of the records on my Garmin has helped with my motiviation. Now I usually get some kind of record each time I go for a run (new fastest 5k or 10k, new longest run, etc).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 29 January, 2019, 01:49:58 pm
4 weeks in and had my first run I actually quite enjoyed (and was looking forward to). Just 5k but the fastest of the year (again, along with fastest 1k and mile).

More importantly "beats per mile" is down to a new low (still a long way to go).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 29 January, 2019, 10:46:04 pm
I keep meaning to look at my beats per mile to see at what pace I'm most efficient.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 30 January, 2019, 09:44:48 am
I'm fat and unfit so mine is way up, I also have a fast beating heart (I regularly go over 200bpm playing 5-a-side) which skews things, we'll see just how low it goes when I get properly fit and lose the weight. Carrying ~20kg extra around generates a lot of extra work for the body.

A recent 5k was 1530bpm (at 93kg).

My lowest has been 1308bpm which was a few years ago on my Parkrun PB (24:24) but I was still heavy at 85kg then (~10kg over target weight).

This is all a long way off Steve Way's ~800bpm [1].

Anyway, it's another fun metric to watch. The main two metrics I look at are:
* Weight (aiming for 79, eventually 70-ish, currently 93)
* VDOT (aiming for 43, currently 31)

1. http://www.steveway.co.uk/?p=37
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 03 February, 2019, 12:10:17 pm
I've started doing parkrun this year.  I did my 5th run yesterday for a PB of 19.09*  ;D :thumbsup:  Given that this time last year 5km was a 30 min affair, and 6 months before that 5km was my limit, I'm really happy about that.


*It's an 'assisted' time though - I run with my dog
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: BrianI on 06 February, 2019, 09:38:32 pm
Started couch to 5k again, first time in well over a year.
Week 1 run 1, 7:35 min / km. Slow, but hopefully I'll gain benefit from cross training by running, rather than cycling.

Hopefully the knees will behave..
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 07 February, 2019, 09:29:16 am
Well done for getting started Brian! Don't worry about the speed now, just follow the plan you are on and it will come.  Take it steady and try to stay injury free  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 09 February, 2019, 08:48:20 am
First run since mid-october, only 3.5km, and only 5:30/km, but no dramas, steady HR and no pelvis pain
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 09 February, 2019, 05:47:54 pm
Yay!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 10 February, 2019, 12:07:26 pm
So, the thing I had started before my off was a slow ramp up in my weekly long run to about 13km/8miles ready to start a HM training plan in late May, with a race date of the first weekend in August.  The plan is to be on Islay and do the double of HM on Saturday and Ride of the Falling Rain on Sunday (100miles).

Now starting from further back, that's 4 months to get back to where I was which doesn't seem unreasonable.  I don't want to drop too much cycling though as I need to keep the endurance going there as well. The HM plan as most of them do is based around a weekend long run and then varying tempo and speedwork through the week.  While away with work, I'll be able to follow the plan fairly well of course, but at home I'm thinking of how to balance the two.

My thoughts are along the lines of swapping out the tempo runs for a meaningful effort on a 25km loop from my front door, and audaxes in place of long runs.  Not replacing all of them of course, more of a mix and match.  I'd like to keep up some swimming as well, if i can, perhaps in place of the interval work. 

Any contrary views/other suggestions?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 10 February, 2019, 10:43:16 pm
My understanding is that running places different demands on joints and muscles than cycling, so if it were me I'd be wary of replacing too many of the long runs and finding that my legs hadn't adapted - even if my general fitness was OK. On the other hand, a lot of training plans seem to be full of recovery runs, and a bike ride sounds like a good match to those.

I've rather got the opposite problem at the moment - Mrs Dan is away a lot so my cycling is to the station and back, though I am finding time for a bit of running. I was hoping to do some longer rides this year, and am hoping that running has me fit enough to pick that up in a month or two - and that bum / saddle adaptation comes back quickly!

On that topic, I got up to 50 minutes today, although dramatic clouds meant rather more stopping for photos than I would normally do.  :-[
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 11 February, 2019, 06:27:37 am
Time on feet is,as you say, important, so no plan to replace all long runs with long rides, more trying to ensure both are represented.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 11 February, 2019, 12:11:41 pm
Any contrary views/other suggestions?

I wouldn't drop/swap any of the runs. Just add the cycling as necessary, most training plans have the option of doing cross training.

4 months is easily enough time to build up to being able to finish a HM given what you're written so far (whether you'll be as fast as you wanted to be is another question, given you're coming back from injury then you just need to accept that you probably won't be).

Looking at the 16 week beginner (BUPA) marathon training plan on my desk (I'm doing a hybrid between that and an intermediate plan) it says:
* To get the most out of it, you should already be able to run at least 5km, and ideally 10km, comfortably before starting
* The first HM length or greater run is a 15 mile run at the end of week 10

so that's 5km (ideally 10km) comfortably to more than an HM in 10 weeks.

The intermediate plan (starting with being able to do 10km comfortably) has a 13 mile long run at week 6.

Have a look at some Half-Ironman training plans as that should cover what you need (HM, 90km cycle, etc) and just ignore the swimming (but do some if you can as it's all good for fitness and recovery). You'll find they have just as much running as a traditional HM plan but also throw in a load more cycling.

The gentle ramp up in distance/time on feet is important though. I'm lucky that I can get away with more than the usual suggestion of limiting it to 10% increase in time/distance a week.

I started my marathon training on Jan 7th where I got round a 5km run comfortably but would have struggled to carry on to do 10km comfortably. Yesterday was the end of a week where I did 5h47m of running including an 18km long run; although it was a bit of an outlier week as I had two long runs (Monday and six days later Sunday) as I had to move the long run from the week before a day later into this week. Legs feel quite tired today unsurprisingly, but a 1km swim and that time in cool water has helped ease them a bit.

I've got my first HM distance run on Friday (extended commute into work). Looking forward to having done that run!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 15 February, 2019, 03:25:15 pm
I've got my first HM distance run on Friday (extended commute into work). Looking forward to having done that run!

Ugh.

Left hip flexor started to complain at 12km but it wasn't bad enough to warrant stopping, so I ground it out as an 'easy' run in 2h20 (HRavg 15bpm lower than I usually do a HM). Hip flexor and right calf pain (from being kicked) probably from 5-a-side football the night before, don't normally do long runs the day after playing football.

Thankfully that's done. Real HM (The Big Half) in three weeks, plenty of time for recovery although that isn't my target race so I won't be pushing it for a specific time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: essexian on 16 February, 2019, 04:58:29 pm
Any recommendations out there for a new treadmill

My wife's treadmill is on its last legs (its about 15 years old and has been well used) so we are looking for a new one.

Hopefully less than £400 (less than £300 would be good!), top speed 10mph or so, not that bothered about programmes etc but a wide base and a changeable slope angle would be good.  The machine would be used for an hour walk (top speed around 5mph) four or five nights a week.

Also, delivery would be good. 

Any suggestions gratefully received.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 17 February, 2019, 06:56:34 am
Life fitness have a factory/workshop on the edge of Ely, they sometimes do returned units, not sure if they would work for you?

On my account, Friday, 5km easy, warm, windy, no dramas, but hr higher than preferred for the pace. Need to do some base building work to hr I think, rather than a pace/distance target run to time.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 22 February, 2019, 06:08:26 pm
The good news.  There's no stress fracture in my dodgy left foot.

The bad news.  Radiologist says its 'wear and tear'.  Stress fractures can heal, but there's not a lot you can do with wear and tear.  I guess we'll see what the podiatrist says next week.  So have now completed 4x imperial centuries on the bike this year and 4 miles running.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 26 February, 2019, 11:03:46 pm
Return of the intervals. Ugh.

Starting off "gently" with 5x800m at 5:15/km pace with 90s walking recovery between each.

That's quite a bit faster than my current 5k pace (I think, haven't done a parkrun for ages) so no wonder I was topping out at 182bpm.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 28 February, 2019, 11:54:55 am
The good news.  There's no stress fracture in my dodgy left foot.

The bad news.  Radiologist says its 'wear and tear'.  Stress fractures can heal, but there's not a lot you can do with wear and tear.  I guess we'll see what the podiatrist says next week.  So have now completed 4x imperial centuries on the bike this year and 4 miles running.

Podiatrist says there was a stress fracture, but it's healed.  The bad news is that it's healed in a way that's fused the bones in toes number 2 and 3 so that they don't flex.  So we're going for insoles, exercises, physio, in an attempt to make things better, but in the long run it will need surgery to sort the problem out, which is not difficult but will mean several months off the bike when I have it done.   >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 28 February, 2019, 01:30:22 pm
but will mean several months off the bike when I have it done.   >:( >:( >:(

That's a bugger.  When I pick up running injuries which entail a lay-off (achilles, ITB) I can usually carry on cycling pretty much as usual.  Not being able to do either would be a real blow.

Having said that, you will have a very good incentive to do all the prescribed physio (and maybe a bit extra  ;)).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 28 February, 2019, 03:19:05 pm
The good news.  There's no stress fracture in my dodgy left foot.

The bad news.  Radiologist says its 'wear and tear'.  Stress fractures can heal, but there's not a lot you can do with wear and tear.  I guess we'll see what the podiatrist says next week.  So have now completed 4x imperial centuries on the bike this year and 4 miles running.

Podiatrist says there was a stress fracture, but it's healed.  The bad news is that it's healed in a way that's fused the bones in toes number 2 and 3 so that they don't flex.  So we're going for insoles, exercises, physio, in an attempt to make things better, but in the long run it will need surgery to sort the problem out, which is not difficult but will mean several months off the bike when I have it done.   >:( >:( >:(

This is why I've not elected for surgery on my big toe joints for bone spurs impacting on moblity, that and holes in feet being generally a last resort for diabetics however good the control is
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 01 March, 2019, 08:15:48 am
Its probably a good thing to get your gait checked every now and again.  It's only now the problem has been diagnosed that I've realised that I've been walking on the outside of my left foot to compensate for the injuries, and I'm having to make a conscious effort to walk normally.

If I'd been videoed or just had someone who knows their stuff watching me on a treadmill they would have probably spotted that something wasn't right and might have averted the injury.  But it is what it is and I'm looking forward to a good Super Randonneur series this year culminating in the https://sites.google.com/site/le1000dusud/home (https://sites.google.com/site/le1000dusud/home) in September.  Then if things aren't working I'll have the surgery done and rest up for the winter.

Good luck all with your running seasons, will continue to follow.  I do have an entry in the Race to the Stones if anyone is interested.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 04 March, 2019, 01:47:11 pm
Ran out of motivation 21km into today's 24km run. Taking 3 well out of date gels didn't help and they really were inedible (which I found out after a mouthful of the first) so in the bin they went.

Going to be a long slow trudge around The Big Half on Sunday as I doubt my legs will have completely recovered by then. Oof. Will be surprised if I can go faster than 2h15. Not that worried, I was just using it as another 21km training run so don't care about the time (or the medal).

Think I passed a Swiss Hat going the other way in Richmond park, only twigged who it was as he had just gone passed.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gus on 04 March, 2019, 03:48:09 pm
Did my first running in  4 years today.
6km at 7:15/km and No stopping or walking.
Priority is getting muscles use to run again.
I'll try to run 3 times a week at ae1 and ae2 for 4 Weeks,
Before trying to increase speed .
I Can really feel my weightloss now. 😊😊
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 05 March, 2019, 10:43:00 am
Ran out of motivation 21km into today's 24km run. Taking 3 well out of date gels didn't help and they really were inedible (which I found out after a mouthful of the first) so in the bin they went.

Going to be a long slow trudge around The Big Half on Sunday as I doubt my legs will have completely recovered by then. Oof. Will be surprised if I can go faster than 2h15. Not that worried, I was just using it as another 21km training run so don't care about the time (or the medal).

Think I passed a Swiss Hat going the other way in Richmond park, only twigged who it was as he had just gone passed.

I found choc brioche rolls worked quite well on long runs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 05 March, 2019, 11:35:55 am
Ran out of motivation 21km into today's 24km run. Taking 3 well out of date gels didn't help and they really were inedible (which I found out after a mouthful of the first) so in the bin they went.

Going to be a long slow trudge around The Big Half on Sunday as I doubt my legs will have completely recovered by then. Oof. Will be surprised if I can go faster than 2h15. Not that worried, I was just using it as another 21km training run so don't care about the time (or the medal).

Think I passed a Swiss Hat going the other way in Richmond park, only twigged who it was as he had just gone passed.

I found choc brioche rolls worked quite well on long runs.

Quite possibly but they don't hand them out during real events (got Big Half and London Marathon in the next couple of months) and I want to train on what I'll be offered during the race.

Also I can carry two or three gels in a race belt or the little pocket on my hand bottle. Carrying anything else would require a different bag (which I wouldn't be using on real events).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 06 March, 2019, 09:08:38 am
Calf went ping playing 5-a-side last night, but managed to play on for another 35 minutes although it was certainly uncomfortable I didn't do any further damage.

Rode a bike to help herd the children at School running club this morning sporting a pair of lovely calf guards I had in the drawer, think I'll keep it on to help support the calf for the rest of the day.

Will take it easy for the rest of the week (no other running or football) and see if it has recovered enough for The Big Half on Sunday. Enforced taper!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 07 March, 2019, 08:59:39 am
Walking on it and a bit of cycling seems to be helping ease it. That and wearing a compression calf guard pretty much 24/7. Limp almost gone and, more importantly, the tenderness when prodded on the back is a lot lot less.

Will try a gentle test 5k on it on Saturday and make up my mind about Sunday's half.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: tonyh on 07 March, 2019, 10:41:52 am
Good luck with the taking care of it, and with the running too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 09 March, 2019, 10:29:52 am
No time to do a proper test, going to just turn up at the start on Sunday and hope for the best. I'll bail if I feel any pain.

Good news is the weather is a bit colder and windy so it'll justify wearing compression tights that should help the calf.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 09 March, 2019, 07:56:23 pm
I hope it holds up for you tomorrow Greenbank.

I got to an hour today, over the nearest hill in the wind.
I’m running a 10k next week. Just checked and it’s another 100m of up and 900m of along compared to today. That feels plausible.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 10 March, 2019, 02:30:28 pm
It held up thanks. No complaints from the calf. Started steady and paced it quite nicely for once. 2:16:36 in the end, not bad for me at 91kg.

Not very inspiring route but nice to run on closed roads (minus the cobbles in Wapping). That tunnel...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 10 March, 2019, 10:21:44 pm
Good to see you got round Greenbank and didn't get blown into the river due to the wind. My God it was bad at points.

I agree it isn't the best route - they've managed to find the dull partt of the London marathon route. However for £10 (with a community entry) and being on the doorstep what's not to like?

I, and others, were getting shouted at by marshals for running on the pavement in Wapping but there was no way I was electing to run on the cobblestones. At least the route was slightly different to last year to avoid the Rotherhihte cobbles.

Right, seven weeks until the full one.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: jsabine on 11 March, 2019, 07:24:53 am
I see you were quite quick - congratulations ...

Pleased enough with a touch under 2hrs 10, though stairs are a little difficult this morning. And I do like the fact that it finishes close enough to home to just walk back, with a rehydration stop on the way ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 11 March, 2019, 08:02:38 am
We tried to get beer but the Vanbrugh wasn't open at 11.45am!  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 11 March, 2019, 08:16:56 am
Pleased enough with a touch under 2hrs 10, though stairs are a little difficult this morning. And I do like the fact that it finishes close enough to home to just walk back, with a rehydration stop on the way ...

Ha, I thought I was overtaken by someone who looks just like you at one point, but looking at the times that can't have been true (you started after me and finished after me although you were faster).

Will see if local physio has a free sports massage slot today, just to add to the pain.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 11 March, 2019, 11:59:56 am
Will see if local physio has a free sports massage slot today, just to add to the pain.

30 minute sports massage. Oh my $DEITY. Painful but so worth it. Legs feel completely free and like I could go out for a long run with no problems (I won't obviously, supposed to take it easy).

Some choice quotes from the physio:-

"Your calves are like rocks, I could do an hour on your calves alone."

"You need to do a lot more stretching."

"Do you have a very high pain threshold? I'd expect most people to be screaming with this much pressure."
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Peat on 14 March, 2019, 08:43:41 am

"Do you have a very high pain threshold? I'd expect most people to be screaming with this much pressure."

I think it's a cyclist thing. My physio works with a local rugby team every weekend and has remarked that if she was pressing this hard on any of them they'd be crying.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Peat on 14 March, 2019, 08:46:59 am
How does one start running?

I've tried about 3x times over the last 2 years and each time it's the same. I get a stitch within the first mile, get tired and exacerbate my already flat-feet, leaving me in agony for about 4 days hence.

I just have cheap crappy trainers, but find it hard to believe that spanking my bike money on a good pair would drastically improve my form. I'm just built all wrong.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 14 March, 2019, 09:27:59 am
Following advice from this very forum, I used the NHS version of Couch Potato to 5k.
It’s a very slow start but builds to half an hour continuous running in nine weeks.
Worked for me and I now really enjoy running.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Peat on 14 March, 2019, 09:47:17 am
Oo-err. I was doing 30 min runs from cold. No wonder I was hurting myself.

I might give that a go, cheers.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 14 March, 2019, 09:58:35 am
This is a VERY common problem for cyclists - you find 30 mins of gentle exercise soooooo easy; and then you damage some bit that you never use on the bike! (generally lower leg somewhere)

(most people luckily just get VERY sore calves, which gradually goes away with each run. )
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: phantasmagoriana on 14 March, 2019, 11:11:22 am
This is a VERY common problem for cyclists - you find 30 mins of gentle exercise soooooo easy; and then you damage some bit that you never use on the bike! (generally lower leg somewhere)

(most people luckily just get VERY sore calves, which gradually goes away with each run. )

Yes, sounds familiar. A few times I've tried to start running, gone too far and too fast from the outset, and ended up in pain so given up (top tip: don't randomly decide to see if you can run 10k in one go having not done any running for about a year. Stairs might be interesting the following day. :facepalm: :hand:)

At the moment I'm going for the gentle approach: I'm using a treadmill (simply because it fits in around other gym stuff I do - time before/after classes) and making myself build up gradually. I now know I can do 5k comfortably and not feel any pain the next day, which is better than I've managed in the past (my usual thing currently is 5k on a Monday morning - I figure that if I can manage a tough spin class on Tuesday evening, I'm fine). I also do 15-20 mins of "intervals" (slow and slower! ;D) once a week. Next step is to take it outdoors and go for a bit longer - but I'll be going very slowly to begin with while I try and build up some distance. I find that if I just take it easier and slower than I feel I "should" be, it's ok.

I'm also fairly sure I'm built wrong for running - my knees cave inwards, which the internet suggests is due to weak glutes, so I've bought some resistance bands and am going to work on that.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 14 March, 2019, 05:25:43 pm
Do treadmill runs at 2% incline. This helps you get your pacing right as the extra work required is roughly equivalent to the air resistance that you get when you run outside (which you don't get when running on a treadmill).

Build up to 2 x 30min runs, then split those into 3 x 20min runs and build up again.

Add 10% max to distance/time a week, especially if you just consider the long run. Sounds like it might be a slow progression but at 10% extra a week you can double the distance in about 7 weeks (1.1^7=1.95 to 2dp). Building up slowly allows your body to adjust to the changes that will be taking place, e.g. muscles that will be growing. One common cause of "shin splits" is the muscles in the lower legs growing faster than the sac that contains them and causing pain through pressure.

--

First run since Sunday's Big Half, had been putting off going out as I was feeling lethargic but forced myself out for a 10k loop from work. Glad I did as I felt great (despite another very windy day) and did my fastest 10k of the year.

29k long run scheduled for Saturday morning though. Ugh. Never a fan of those really long runs. Down to the river at Putney, along the river to Richmond Bridge, turn around and retrace.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Peat on 15 March, 2019, 07:26:08 am
I did a running last night, with the C25k plan as recommended.

The nice lady on the podcast told me to focus on hitting the ground with my heel and rolling through my foot. I found that quite difficult, my tendancy is to hit the ground flat on or the ball. Is that due to cycling related tightness or me just being a gangly clutz?

The local running club were out and doing the same bits of my chosen route. I could see from my shadow how badly i run, compared to those more experienced folk.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 15 March, 2019, 09:33:05 am
I did a running last night, with the C25k plan as recommended.

The nice lady on the podcast told me to focus on hitting the ground with my heel and rolling through my foot. I found that quite difficult, my tendancy is to hit the ground flat on or the ball. Is that due to cycling related tightness or me just being a gangly clutz?

The local running club were out and doing the same bits of my chosen route. I could see from my shadow how badly i run, compared to those more experienced folk.
Don’t stress too much about it. I’m sure someone with more knowledge will be along soon but some people rate the heel and roll technique and others don’t.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: tom_e on 15 March, 2019, 09:41:22 am
The nice lady on the podcast told me to focus on hitting the ground with my heel and rolling through my foot. I found that quite difficult, my tendancy is to hit the ground flat on or the ball. Is that due to cycling related tightness or me just being a gangly clutz?

This is a matter of Very open and heated discussion, so the "nice lady" is being positively disingenuous.  I would go with what feels natural to you in the first instance.  Don't deliberately try to change it without reading up first, the evidence is not strong for making a transition either way. [and certainly not in the direction of deliberate heel-strike]
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 15 March, 2019, 10:16:03 am
It's been discussed at here at some length. here is the unofficial YACF (ultra)running mentor:

My other half is a big heel striker, and a 2.30 marathon runner- if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Many people can get away with heel striking.

I can't believe anyone would actively encourage it tho- mid/forefoot running creates a million less problems. Plus the fact it's loads more efficient- elites don't heel strike.

I'm not a physio though. But as a PT specialising in rehab, I have dealt with many runners and injuries, the heel strikers have loads more of the problems.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 16 March, 2019, 01:57:18 am
+1 for not worrying about it too much.  I'm a forefoot runner.  It does make a difference when you are buying shoes, because it can change whether you want build up and cushioning in the heel. However, when I bought my first proper pair of running shoes, the person looking at my gait said that more people think that they land mid- to fore- foot than actually do. Keep doing what you are doing and see what feels natural to you.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 16 March, 2019, 03:20:45 pm
The 10k I'd been building up to was today (the EnduranceLife Sussex coastal trail run). It was bloody windy along the cliff tops either side of Birling Gap. One hill i was able to run up because of it :) ... but was hard into the wind. I was slightly dissapointed with my just under 1:19 time, then i looked at my GPS, which said 12.5km, and felt happier.
I enjoyed that.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 19 March, 2019, 06:35:56 am
6.4km running round a golf course yesterday.  Forking hell that was hard work!

Partly becasue it was quite soggy in places, partly becasue my running fitness is now officially appalling.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 19 March, 2019, 08:34:43 am
+10 for the 'don't stress about it' and 'more people strike heel than realise'.

I'm a heel striker. I used to run barefoot (no, not with funny sock-shoes, with nothing on my feet). I was still a heel striker when running barefoot. It is just my natural gait.

Forcing a gait will cause problems. 'Run gently, run kind' to enable your body to run distances. Once your body is conditioned for running, you can start to open up your gait, put in more power.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 19 March, 2019, 09:08:58 pm
I used to do some barefoot running, now just use very minimal and zero drop shoes. I'm definitely a mid-forefoot runner, switched from heel striking when I picked up the barefooting.  I'm quite surprised you're able to run heel striking barefooted

Mid or forefoot in my experience is definitely harder on the calves, heel striking was always more of an issue for back and hips with me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 19 March, 2019, 10:45:44 pm
I didn't have any problem running regularly with heel striking.  Over a period of 6 years I ran a half marathon distance 70 times, 13 of which were marathons and a few were 50km+   My injury was caused by a bad step (treading on a large bottle of fizzy water when it dropped out of shopping bag) a couple of days before running on the Ridgeway, where I stretched out my stride (as I was trying to run faster) and ran more on my toes than usual.  Old damage to the big toe meant no 2 and 3 toes were slightly displaced and the combination of all of the above caused an undiagnosed stress fracture.  The moral of the story is (a) be careful running, (b) run your natural style.

When I first started running I was very careful - building up from 15 minutes in 5 minute intervals and stretching for 15 minutes after every run (which I still do). 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 20 March, 2019, 09:16:45 am
I'm not surprised that people heelstrike, I'm surprised that people heelstrike barefoot.  When I switched to barefoot and minimalist running shoes I rapidly moved to a mid-forefoot striker naturally.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 20 March, 2019, 10:17:13 am
'heelstrike' is kind of a misnomer.

When I was running barefoot, to say that any part of my foot 'struck' the ground would be wrong. 'planted' or 'rolled' would be a better description. The greatest stress was on knees, particularly downhill, as they worked to be shock absorbers.

I'm a lot older now, with aging cartilage, so when I run, I wear Hoka shoes with huge amounts of cushioning. They encourage a similar rolling gait.   
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Peat on 22 March, 2019, 12:06:10 pm
In my lunchtime yesterday, I went to a running shop. They filmed me on a treadmill, said words while pointing at a video of my feet and then said buy either of these shoes.

I obliged, skeptically.

I can't believe the difference, honestly. I can now run straight and felt light on my feet for the first time in my life.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 22 March, 2019, 08:28:05 pm
Great. I hope they take you far, or fast, according to preference. ;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 01 April, 2019, 05:13:52 pm
Running not really improving at the moment, weight static around 90kg (should have been 85kg by now) so the VLM will be another ~5h slog.

Holidays in Feb and March just knocked my routine completely. Did 4 half marathons in March (all 2:15-2:20) but haven't run further than that this year (I'd usually have done 3 or 4 runs longer than HM in the run up to a marathon).

Last long long run on Saturday (usually aim for 35km but I'll probably cut it down to 28km).

Will aim to keep going over the summer and slowly get the weight down to under 76kg and keep it there (rather than yo-yo-ing back up in the winter). After April I'll be spending a lot more time in the pool and on the bike, and it's total exercise time which seems to be the biggest factor in my weight loss (I can do 10h on the bike a week quite easily, but 10h of running a week is nigh on impossible for me right now).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 05 April, 2019, 06:23:08 am
Last week, 4km walk and 2x5km runs
This week, 6.5km and 7km runs and 5km walk.

All runs around 5min/km pace which is OK, but HR still a bit high.  At this point its a matter of rebuilding running endurance and I'd rather run twice but shorter than once longer and not be able to run again for several days
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 05 April, 2019, 08:18:35 pm
My physio is mostly into running. I asked him today how many marathon-training injuries he'd seen recently ...

Part of his (long) answer was that they recommend only starting a marathon after 4 years of consistent running.


Meanwhile, this years Barkley "Marathon" was another zero finishers year. Quite a few injuries there, I suspect  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 05 April, 2019, 09:52:10 pm
Meanwhile, this years Barkley "Marathon" was another zero finishers year. Quite a few injuries there, I suspect  ;D

The BM100 is just beyond bonkers but it is to marathon running what a 24h cycling TT completing 400+ miles is to a gentle 80km social cake and tea club run.

I'd be tempted to try just 1 lap of the BM100 if I ever sort my weight and running life out. The full 5 laps is just stupid.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 06 April, 2019, 04:40:55 pm
Meanwhile, this years Barkley "Marathon" was another zero finishers year. Quite a few injuries there, I suspect  ;D

The BM100 is just beyond bonkers but it is to marathon running what a 24h cycling TT completing 400+ miles is to a gentle 80km social cake and tea club run.

I'd be tempted to try just 1 lap of the BM100 if I ever sort my weight and running life out. The full 5 laps is just stupid.

You'd have to make two laps to make it really worthwhile.  It'd be interesting to see how much slower I am over 50 miles under those conditions vs the others i've done
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 06 April, 2019, 07:13:38 pm
Well apparently 20 hours is pretty respectable for 2 laps!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 06 April, 2019, 07:33:58 pm
I have a 7 hour 40-miler under my belt, that was in pretty benign conditions, 8 hours for a different race in a torrential downpour, and  (from memory) just over 4 hours for a 22mile fell race in boggy conditions.  I'm not sure those translate to Barkley Marathons performance though
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Phil W on 06 April, 2019, 08:59:46 pm
Race report of one of the finishers

https://door5.com/2016/04/16/barkley-2016-act-4-the-guide/#more-2302

60 hours is really generous for 100 miles which indicates how difficult the course is.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 17 April, 2019, 09:10:57 am
I've started trying fell running in the last few weeks, by racing in the local mid-week series. I've done a fair bit of trail running, and am ok(ish) with lumpy, but this has been a bit of an eye-opener. The mid-week series is all short races (4-8km), but they are brutal. I'm told that running downhill well comes with practice, so I just need to keep plugging away at that. The uphills are hard, but I do appear to be slightly above average at those. I'm 3 weeks in now, and it's sort of fun (very much type 2). Last night I learnt that you can actually take any route you want in fell running (i.e. shortcuts are allowed if you know the route well enough) when I got pipped near the finish by someone who I had definitely put 200m into and she appeared from a side track immediately in front of me  :o. But it you don't know the shortcut, you don't know it! There's 12 races in the series, so I'm hoping that by then I'll know some new routes, and have a bit better technique.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 29 April, 2019, 09:07:02 am
woo-hoo, up to the magic (for me) 8km run last week, at pretty much target HM pace

the HM plan I intended to start in 4 weeks suggests a starting point of 8miles/12km.  That might be a bit of a stretch, but im inclined to start it anyway
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 29 April, 2019, 06:05:17 pm
VLM done but not as I would have liked it.

Never was going to be fast (had hoped to get down to below 80kg and aim for sub 4h) but was still 93kg on the morning, but at least I'd been doing some reasonable training.

Aimed for a steady 7min/km and went through half way at 2:26:54 feeling fine but then felt my hip flexor (old 5-a-side injury) start to go coming in to Canary Wharf (29km-ish) and walked from there from fear of doing myself some proper damage if I continued to run on it. Doubt I would have managed to run the whole thing anyway as I was just too heavy. The 13km walk to the finish gave me a 5:49:39. Not my slowest though (that was the heatwave of Brighton 2017).

Crowds are amazing but a little bit too much for me, just too much noise and no respite. Maybe it'd be better without my name on my vest. Also walking means you should be to the sides, so you're much closer to the crowds.

So many sweets on offer, I guess many people will be doing it for Diabetes UK...

Entered the ballot for 2020 and will look to do a different one if I don't get a place. And I'll only do another one if my weight is below 80kg (I said this last time but didn't want to pass up my London place and I'd already deferred once due to a stress fracture), it's just silly otherwise.

Some great runs from other yacfers.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 01 May, 2019, 10:15:40 pm
I approached VLM bravely. I lost nearly two weeks of training in mid March due to a quad issue, meaning I missed out on a couple of long runs and track sessions. This meant I wasn't quite sure what form I was in coming into VLM. Running 100 miles during the first six days of my Easter holiday at least gave me some confidence everything would hold up.

I was expecting to run 2:32 / 2:33, but planned to go through half way in 75:00 and then see what would happen. I'd normally aim for a negative split, or as close to even as possible, but this time thought I'd gamble and see what would happen.

I made the most of the tailwinds and downhill in the first 5 km and thereafter settled into a more sensible pace. People I knew were going for 2:30 passed me but I opted to let them go as I knew I didn't want to run any quicker over the first half. I got to half way in 74:33 and still felt decent but turning into the wind at the bottom of the Isle of Dogs made me quickly re-evaluate things. I wasn't losing ground to people around me, so it was clear everyone was slowing a bit.

After Canary Wharf I realised I wouldn't be able to keep up the pace and it started to slow. But at least I clung on for 2:34:27, which was a ~30 second PB.

As always it was a fantastic day. I loved spotting so many friends out on the course cheering on the runners, and also sharing the road with loads of friends, a number of whom ran massive PBs. The start was just one massive social of catching up with people.

I didn't see Greenbank but dumped into Oranj at the finish who had had a good time by all accounts.

It goes without saying I'll be back next year. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 01 May, 2019, 10:19:47 pm
another 8km for me in rainy Aberdeen

First 5k at around 10km pace, then steady finish.  I'll push to 10km on Sunday I think, but steady paced. 

Good efforts at vlm  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Peat on 02 May, 2019, 08:23:52 am
Still very early days for me. Starting from zero again really - I entered cessation the week leading up to a cycling holiday in Mallorca for fear of injury. That was a month ago....

I've still got no idea of what an appropriate pace is. I'm either flying past other joggers or having others fly past me. I did a 2.5km block at 5:04/km last night and felt I could have gone on for longer, but am weary of over-doing it too soon. I still get quite sore a day or so after these 5km walk/runs despite thorough stretching.

I guess my intermediate goal is to be able to run a comfortable 5km without much bother - mainly so that I have a means of faffless exercise available to me when i'm away from my beloved bikes. Still not sure I'll ever really like it, but having spent £100 on trainers I'll be damned if they are going to collect dust.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 02 May, 2019, 10:29:17 am
After Canary Wharf I realised I wouldn't be able to keep up the pace and it started to slow. But at least I clung on for 2:34:27, which was a ~30 second PB.

It goes without saying I'll be back next year. :thumbsup:


Wow!  :o Good effort!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 02 May, 2019, 10:33:23 am
Fwiw I'd be very pleased with 5min/km. I'm  more interested in distance, so in your position focussed on distance at the same pace rather than faster.

Having said that busyness and illness means i haven't run for over a week.

Sent from my LG-H850 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: tom_e on 02 May, 2019, 10:39:21 am
If you're not quite at 5km running yet, then 5 min/km seems quite quick to me.

αdαmsκι, I think you must be a different species to me.  Awesome.


My running keeps being interrupted by cycling at the moment.  ::-) 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 02 May, 2019, 12:25:59 pm
αdαmsκι, I think you must be a different species to me.  Awesome.

I'll ditto that one.

Greenbank, I think you were sensible to crank it back. Pushing on could have stopped you running for months. You completed, despite an injury, and that really counts.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 02 May, 2019, 12:57:33 pm
Following a short mid-week run this morning (4 miles at 8mph av.) I had some time to kill before being somewhere so had the idea of doing some sprints, something I haven't done in a very long time ( I ran for my county at schools level at 100m & 200m).

I ran diagonally across the full-size footy pitch as fast as I could 5 times, resting for 2-3 minutes between each sprint.  What I soon noticed was that my running form tightened up - much better arm swing, better foot strike and better upper body posture.

I also felt in in my quads - immediately.  They were burning mid-sprint but soon recovered.  I thought my quads were reasonably well developed through regular gym strength work and a lot of cycling, but this was something else.

Anyhow, it was fantastic fun!  I had that feeling of almost flying which I occasionally get when cycling (on a good day).  I'm going to start incorporating some of these into my weekly routine and see what effect it has on longer runs and cycling.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Oranj on 02 May, 2019, 08:54:25 pm
I didn't see Greenbank but dumped into Oranj at the finish who had had a good time by all accounts.

Cheers αdαmsκι, sub 6-min/mile is PROPER. I had a nice brisk run, no pressure for a target time though after a bit of an illness-interrupted January and February but enjoyed the atmosphere for a 3:06 finish. Not sure whether I'll be back next year, I sorta'd like to do something else in the spring.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: TheRedEyeJedi on 03 May, 2019, 11:10:05 am
I did VLM too and did 4.30 and a few seconds ...so 20 minutes quicker than my one and only marathon two years back.

Went through half way in just under 2 hours so as you can see I paced it poorly.  That also included a piss stop right at the start and navigating through some crowds.  The drop off of pace in the second half was kind of intentional though - I just wanted to see how long I could hold 4 hour pace and then how well I could hold it together there after.   I had done quite a bit of my long runs at 4 hour pace but never m,ore than 8-10 miles at a time.  At about 11 miles I knew I was not holding 9 minute miles and I intentionally dropped back to my regular, cruising, MAF long run pace (around 9.45 - 10mins).  All was fine until 20 miles approx where I had a bloody stitch start that killed the last 6 miles.  Had to be walk/run home to get rid of it and my pace dropped right off.  Tops of legs also failed massively in last 10k and although they didnt cramp or lock they felt close to it and it ruined my form.

I think I could have done 4.15 on the day with more even pacing but that is easy to say!  I finished in a bit of a state so at least I know I emptied myself.

Crowds were amazing, organisation first class, amazing experience....would I do London again?  Not sure lol.   I'm not convinced big city marathons are my thing and the whole London logisitcs left me pretty exhausted.  Walked nearly 13 miles on Saturday travelling, registering and having a mooch around the city (that was a mistake but would have been pretty selfish on partner to go and lay down in the hotel all day).  Then standing around for hours before the start isnt something I dealt well with.   I also got a bit sick of people doing selfish, stupid things all the way down the course...having experience in group riding is pretty useful I reckon.   I think my preference and future lays with small town marathons and trails.  Having said that I will enter my balot for next year as the chances are slim but now I have a time to beat!

In total I covered 36 miles on Sunday which included a very confused, wobbly and painful 90 minutes around the finish area where I became lost, disorientated and eventually a bit tearful.  My partner eventually got hold of me on the phone and spotted me on the other side of the route at about 600m to go signs.  St Johns had to walk me accross the course to her lol.   I was ok after that and have recovered quite nicely.


So first marathon - 25 mpw average (max 40 mpw) and 14 stone 10 resulting in 4 hours 50
Second marathon - 36 mpw average (max 55 mpw) and 14 stone 2 resulting in 4 hours 30
(Im 6ft and built for context)

I am booked in for Abingdon in October and I am really determined to get my weekly to 45mpw and my weight down to 13 stone.  I think I could break 4 hours then.  Actually looking forward to that one now where as after my first I vowed never again.  Im keeping my long runs going before that and also trying to keep my weekly mileage up as I think im starting to have the conditioning to do so.

MAF training has really helped - been largely injury free since beginning it and it has allowed my volume to really take off.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 03 May, 2019, 12:48:51 pm
Good work!

I'm not convinced big city marathons are my thing and the whole London logisitcs left me pretty exhausted.

Good point, but that's one reason why London did work for me quite well. I was still in bed at home at 7.15am on Sunday. It only took me an hour and a bit to get to the start using public transport. Even then I got to the start a bit too early.

Transport and hotels for the London Marathon cost me a grand total of ~£2 (Putney to Waterloo on the train. The train to Blackheath was free for runners. Coming back I got the tube from Westminster to East Putney and that was free as they were waving people through the barriers - I think runners got to use the tube for free until 5pm or so anyway.)

Compare that to my two Brighton marathons where I've spent more than £600 each time (wife/daughter/myself in a nice hotel for two nights, trains there/back, etc as made a nice weekend of it each time). Of course, I could have done it cheaper but nowhere near as cheap as doing my local one.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 03 May, 2019, 01:38:54 pm
All was fine until 20 miles approx where I had a bloody stitch start that killed the last 6 miles.

What works for me every time I get a stitch is to completely exhaust every last bit of air from my lungs - a full breath out and then force a final contraction, almost painfully.  This isn't easy when you are breathing heavily from exertion but can be done.  In a situation like yours on Sunday it would even be worth stopping briefly to try this in the hope it works and you can continue the rest of the run unhindered.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 06 May, 2019, 09:03:35 am
Breaking 2 Part 2 to come in London in October with banking from everyone's fav petrochemical company

Eliud Kipchoge plans 'super human' 1:59 marathon in London in October

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/may/06/ineos-eliud-kipchoge-attempt-break-marathon-two-hour-barrier-london
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Gus on 06 May, 2019, 11:13:36 am
Broke the 6 min/km mark yesterday, for the first time in 7 years. 5min 55 sec for 4.5 km. so chuffed  :smug:
Still being 112 kg and need to drop 25 kg, I'm sure I'll be improving dramatically when I reach my weight goal.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 11 May, 2019, 02:25:30 pm
After nearly 150 parkruns I finally made the pilgrimage to Bushy this morning. I've never seen a parkrun like it; the number of runners was bonkers. It must be an odd feeling if Bushy is one's "home" parkrun due to the sheer volume of people. Today there were 1,421 runners of which 180 were first timers to Bushy parkrun. A lot of events won't even have 180 runners. Watching the funnel management to keep everyone in order was incredible. I saw someone I know from when I was in Iten cycling to the start but never saw them again because there were so many people.

The course is very flat and mainly on grass or gravel. However today it was different to normal for some reason so I cannot comment on what the normal course is like. As I was the front it felt very open, but it would be a different feeling running in the pack, which is big. The first 73 finishers ran sub 20 this morning.

It'll be a while before I ever go again because it's a bit of a schlep to get there from east London (esp. when South-Western cancel the train from Waterloo :demon:), but it was definitely worth doing once in a while.
 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 15 May, 2019, 06:45:55 am
up to 9km yesterday, at a smidge ove 5min/km, so on or about my target hm pace.

this is now starting to feel doable for early August, though not likely to be anywhere near PB
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 15 May, 2019, 10:47:36 am
The first 73 finishers ran sub 20 this morning.

Quite a few of the keener kayak racers also do parkruns.  One weekend they were commenting that they'd just seen someone do the parkrun in a tad over 18min. While pushing a toddler in a 3-wheeled buggy.

Sure, the course was flat, but even so . . .
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Peat on 17 May, 2019, 12:07:10 pm
Ran with others for the first time since school this week. Did a 7km loop at lunch with some colleagues in just under 40mins. Quite fun.

Unfortunately, I seem to be going a week between each run now due to pain under my ankle bone on my left foot.  It just about subsides then i go and run again and it hurts again. Since i'm running on the behest of my physio, I'll see what he can do. Hopefully it's just the case of getting some insoles.... My knees tend to brush each other every 4 or so strides.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 19 May, 2019, 05:46:17 pm
I think I'm definitely starting to enjoy my running a bit more, although I have some difficulty with enjoyment when I'm really trying in a race.  A few of the people I know who also do the midweek fell runs seem to have a very different experience doing 'steady racing' mid-pack or slower, whilst I have a feeling of achievement close to the finish and then at the finish, but spend a fair chunk of the really hard stuff at max HR wondering 'why am i doing this?'. In this week's event I ran the 6.7km in 43 minutes (that's 6:24 min/km pace). In my defence, it had 380m elevation gain, most of which was between 1 and 3.3 km in. The winners were coving that in about 34 min.

Did a 10km race today with Meg (my dog), at a much better pace (only 220m climb over 10km). I have never raced 10km, and haven't done 10km in ages (generally either do shorter, or 15-16km, which is at a slower pace), so was unsure what a realistic pace would be.  Despite 2 cattle grids and having to open/close 2 fairly difficult gates, my finish time was 42:00.  :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 19 May, 2019, 11:08:42 pm
I meant to ask how the running was going but you seemed a bit busy yesterday afternoon trying to serve us tea & baked spuds and shoo out the ballerinas!

 If you're putting in max effort you're going to question your own sanity. It happens to me every time I push myself, from parkruns to marathons.

42 minutes for 10 km in any conditions is a decent effort but with over 200m of ascent and cattle grids etc that's really impressive. You should try a flat 10km!

Have you come across Russell Bentley? He's a 2:20 marathon runner based strong Bangor?



After having done the London marathon my next race is Vitality Westminster 1 mile. Followed by a 55 km ultra (and with WCW 600 in between to finish off my PBP qualification :facepalm:)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 07 June, 2019, 11:32:41 am
This week has been something of a running week, being away in Sunbury I've been running from the Hotel in Twickenham down the river round Teddington etc

last week had 2 easy runs of 40min each and a 10km total tempo run, but I missed the long run.

This week
Monday - 4 x 1000m at 10k pace - for a total of 7km - should have been 5, but my right hip was a bit twingy after self-physio-ing
Tuesday - easy 35min
Wednesday - tempo run with 1mile wu/cd and 20 mins at target pace-15s/km

My back has taken it pretty well, aching a bit hips slightly tweaky.
What I'm finding is that my pace over 8-10km is in line with the plan, but my run endurance is way off where it should be. With 8 weeks to go, I'm thinking whether I shoudl attempt the HM or not, or spend an extra day pootling by bike - maybe head over to Arran for a day, or ride the length of Jura

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 07 June, 2019, 02:44:50 pm
I've got running related DOMS for the first time in a while. I've discovered than learning to run downhill is hard. I seem to be able to get up hills reasonably ok, but I find downhill really hard. This week was the first week since the earlier, easy (easier) races that I've been able to run all the way down. When the midweek series finishes, I might see if I can find someone to teach me to navigate, so that I can do longer races (short races usually allow you to spot between the marshal points, or just follow someone else).

I hadn't previously come across Russell, but he does come to some of the local fell races. I've seen his blog - I'd been disappointed to miss Ras Yr Moelwyn due to clashing commitments, but his write up of how horrible it was made me laugh.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 07 June, 2019, 02:55:12 pm
I've discovered than learning to run downhill is hard. I seem to be able to get up hills reasonably ok, but I find downhill really hard.

Likewise.  When running uphill I can feel the muscle groups used in cycling kicking in and I seem to be able to match the good runners, but downhill I'm like a newly-born deer.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 19 June, 2019, 07:38:06 am
Last night was the last event in the midweek fell running series.  I've made it around 11 of the 12 events. I was mostly just happy to have made it through the series, as this was my first year of attempting the fell running. Last night's was short (3km) but more difficult than anticipated. I think I may have started too quick as I was really suffering toward the top.  It's a bit mean in that the finish is higher that the start, with the last 300m being uphill. Was pleased to discover that I was 3rd overall woman in the series (best 5 events), so happy with that. Considering learning to navigate so that I can do longer events now...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Legs on 25 June, 2019, 03:18:07 pm
I ran the Duffield '5' (actually 5.2 miles) last night with a colleague, trying to get him round as fast as possible.  I've been having knee niggles on and off for the past 2 years and have barely run in that time, so I was looking for an excuse to jog it.  It's a really tough course (https://www.strava.com/activities/2478651267) with a ridiculous hill in it, but it brings out loads of runners from the community and beyond.  Max, who is a 24-min parkrunner, finished in 44:50 and was amazed how hard he'd pushed himself.  ;D

Definitely up for a bit more running this summer.  My eldest turned 6 on Saturday and has a lovely new Frog 62, so hopefully we can spend some time up at the village playing fields with him on two wheels, and me trying to keep up!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: αdαmsκι on 27 June, 2019, 03:41:45 pm
Breaking 2 Part 2 to come in London in October with banking from everyone's fav petrochemical company

Eliud Kipchoge plans 'super human' 1:59 marathon in London in October

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/may/06/ineos-eliud-kipchoge-attempt-break-marathon-two-hour-barrier-london

Now moved to Vienna, which at least means I won't feel jealous being so close but not being able to get out of work to watch.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jun/27/vienna-host-eliud-kipchoge-bid-break-two-hour-marathon-athletics
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 29 June, 2019, 03:02:14 pm
HM plan wasn't going to plan, speed work and tempo work up to about 11-12km was going OK, but long run was nowhere near enough. Add to that 2 weeks of a hacking cough and snot and there's no way I'll be ready for a race in 4 weeks.

If I'd been habitually running enough in the last 8 months I might consider winging it. Instead on that day I'll take the ferry over to Jura and climb at least one of the Paps.  It'll be a long day on my feet
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: slope on 29 June, 2019, 03:27:53 pm
 ^ . . . dare one suggest a magical experience, whether permitting?  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 29 June, 2019, 03:33:10 pm
Last year when I was cycle touring I had less time on Islay and didn't make it to Jura, so I'm really looking forward to it, and can get the reverse pictures back to the Bunnahabhain distillery
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 13 October, 2019, 08:34:21 am
I had a bit of a revelation last night. Normally racing is a bit type 2 fun for me, especially if I'm running without a dog. Last night I ran in the team event of the Petzl night trail race at Coed y Brenin. It's a 3km lap (off road: 1km downish, 1km very up, 1 km down) with one team member (team of 3) running at a time, handing over a timing chip baton each lap. It's 3 hours long, so the idea is to run as many laps between you as possible. It was actually a lot of fun whilst I was running. I'm not sure if it was the support, the dark, the fact that the laps are shortish, but I really enjoyed it. I might even consider the solo event next year!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 21 October, 2019, 09:10:47 pm
Been struggling to get out much since the knee op. Not pain, just silly workload etc and dark nights now.

Anyway, just back in from 5 miles on the road in just over 40 minutes, so feeling pleased with myself. I haven't worn road shoes for weeks - well over a year really, so that was fun:) Suspect I'll feel it tomorrow or Wdnesday.

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 21 October, 2019, 09:26:17 pm
Think I've tickled my PF a bit after Saturday's hill run in the Pentlands.
The return is a horrid 5k flog along a tarmacked road, and in my trail shoes I was beginning to feel the tweaks.
I really need to not do that.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 12 November, 2019, 06:46:02 pm
first run since the off on the bike with a twisted ankle.  I had to run for a train this morning and that didn't cause any issues, so decided to run this evening after I got to the hotel

2km out and back, keeping mid-foot it was OK, as the heel dropped there was some discomfort, so telling me to keep up with the mobilisation and stretching.   Now feels OK, if not actually better than first thing this morning.  Let's see how it feels tomorrow.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 13 November, 2019, 08:01:51 pm
After a bit of a lull to focus on cycling I realised I'd dwindled to little of either, so am getting back out there. I've managed to get back to 5km with stops for crossing roads. I even went out at lunch from work the other day and got a new veloviewer tile  O:-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 14 November, 2019, 08:15:56 pm
I try to run to and from work once a week.
It's 8k each way, which is do-able in the context of a commute.
It's a trail run, totally off-road mostly in woods. (Well, there's about 1.5k of dead-end private estate road with no cars. )

The light is nice at the moment, the run in is just after sunrise, and the run home is twilight as I set off, and proper dark by the time I get home.
So I set about photographing it for fun.

The morning run photos are here:
https://www.strava.com/activities/2863869122

The run home in the dark I'll post here.
Yes, those are clouds of steam from my nostrils, in the manner of a horse!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49066240962_b874d6d2dd_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hKPiZL)
20191114_164725[1] (https://flic.kr/p/2hKPiZL) by Ron Lowe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62966413@N04/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 15 November, 2019, 01:21:59 pm
That looks decent.
I've tried a once-per-week jog to the train station (and back in evening). About 4km each way, then a bit to work at the other end.
Main issue (apart from legs not liking running) is the road camber. Really murders my knee tendons.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 17 November, 2019, 06:21:15 pm
Nice commute pictures.

I went for a run with Miss Dan the Younger earlier. She’s not in the habit of running, but chasing her up a rise gave me a strava pb on that segment. :blush: She also does a good line in going from hands in pockets saunter to sprinting for the lamppost. :D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 18 November, 2019, 09:17:53 am
That looks decent.
I've tried a once-per-week jog to the train station (and back in evening). About 4km each way, then a bit to work at the other end.
Main issue (apart from legs not liking running) is the road camber. Really murders my knee tendons.

same round here re the camber.  If road safety allows, either run on the crown, or run on the same side of the road out and back to help even it out
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 18 November, 2019, 12:57:29 pm
Even seemingly flat paths often have a slight camber. Here's a run along the Thames Path from Putney to Richmond and back from a few years ago.

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1075083351

Scroll down to the Ground Contact Time Balance graph at the bottom (and enlarge it) and you can clearly see the shift across the mid-point when I reach the turnaround point at halfway.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 09 December, 2019, 01:58:44 pm
Got the OK from the phyiso to start running again four and a bit months after doing my ankle.

Suggestion is to do the Couch to 5k to build back up the load on the ankle which should see me doing 5k in one go by late January.

Shall nip out for W1D1 later this afternoon and will try to resist the temptation to do too much.

(It's going to be interesting as it's only a further 9 weeks after the end of the c25k until the London Landmarks Half Marathon which I have a place in. Hmm.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 09 December, 2019, 03:51:07 pm
I did my furthest ever run on Friday - 24km. I'd managed a good steady fast pace to 22km. The last 2km were a bit shonky, but at least part of that was due to finishing on really crappy terrain (dune slack - not ideal for maintaining good form). Some of it was also thinking mentally of getting to 1/2 marathon distance, so I had a slight mental collapse after that. I felt a bit sore afterwards, but managed a reasonably fast parkrun 5km the following day, so no major ill effects.

The plan is to keep most of the pace on and increase a little bit each month. I might need to do some new routes to keep it interesting. The main problem with that is that 'interesting routes' around here tend to involve a lot of hills.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 09 December, 2019, 06:17:59 pm
Well done.
I'm building up to a half marathon. Even at 7km my routes are mostly up a hill, varying which one for variety.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 17 December, 2019, 07:39:54 pm
I seem to have purchased a tri suit.
I look like a badly stuffed teddy bear.
(But no worse than my TT skinsuit !)

And a set of training fins.
And goggles.
For my first swim coaching session on Thursday.

I've also signed up for the first of the local duathlon series in Jan.

Where is this nonsense going to end?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 17 December, 2019, 10:03:57 pm
Kona!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 18 December, 2019, 09:30:46 pm
Aye, perhaps.

My goals are more locally focused.

Celtman (https://cxtri.com/)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 18 December, 2019, 09:32:40 pm
Yes, there are plenty of long distance tris out there that you don't pay through the nose just for the Ironman branding.

Saying that, I'm looking at a 70.3 next year and hopefully a full IM in 2022 (i've been talking about it for a long time though!)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 18 December, 2019, 09:35:58 pm
Indeed.

I'm not able to do Celtman next year ( it's sold out already ), but I'm working towards being able to do it the following year.

And up here, the Celtman brand has somewhat greater kudos than IM.
(Not that I'm interested in kudos. No siree!)

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 30 December, 2019, 10:29:55 pm
I've done a hard run and an 8.6km long run this week and feeling it in my legs a bit. So i'm at the balance of being a bit behind my building to a half marathon plan but also knowing that my right hamstring needs a spot of recovery.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 13 January, 2020, 04:27:09 pm
Back into running after a work induced (need to earn money) break up to Xmas.  Pencilled in a half marathon XC on 1st March and a 16 mile XC in early April if I don't pick up insurmountable training injuries.  Will enter as late as possible to avoid having to bin it off if I stupidly over train.

That only gives me 8 weeks to get half-marathon ready from scratch.  Going fine so far but I'm still only doing short distances. Starting to gently ramp up from this week now I've got back into the habit.  Haven't run the course before but expecting some hills so any time under 2hr 15m will be welcome.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 13 January, 2020, 05:55:14 pm
That only gives me 8 weeks to get half-marathon ready from scratch.  Going fine so far but I'm still only doing short distances. Starting to gently ramp up from this week now I've got back into the habit.  Haven't run the course before but expecting some hills so any time under 2hr 15m will be welcome.

Depends on what your 'scratch' is? If your current 'scratch' is "could do 5k fine but would struggle with 10k" then 8 weeks is pushing it w.r.t. possible injuries. A max 10% increase in max-distance/volume per week means you can only double things (longest run distance, total weekly volume) every 8 weeks. So if your "scratch" is "could knock out a 10k plus some shorter runs now" then you could get to HM in 8 weeks and keep within the 10% rule of thumb.

Saying all of that I'm pushing things myself. I'm coming back from an ankle injury and will have completed C25K by mid-Feb (and so I'll be doing 3x5km runs by then) and then it's only 6 weeks from then until the London Landmarks HM at the end of March. 6 weeks of 10% increases takes a 5k run to almost 9k but the ~15k/week total volume goes up to ~26.5k/week, which should be enough to mangle into a 5k gentle run early in the final week and then the HM. I don't care about a time and so I'll be happy to finish even if I only run the first ~15km and walk the rest. (I hate wasting entries and there's no way to transfer it or defer it a year.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 13 January, 2020, 07:18:15 pm
The key to getting round them is not to increase the training too fast, but to make sure the week before is easy and that you have a couple (or even more) days off before the event. Then take it steady and hope to survive.

Enjoy - I’m up to about 7 miles now in between rest days and bike rides.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 14 January, 2020, 01:15:53 pm
Yep, I've learnt from experience that there's no point rushing progress otherwise I inevitably cease training with some injury.  I could knock out a 10k tomorrow in under an hour but I've been deliberately holding back until I speed up the shorter runs a bit and shift a few kg.  Focusing on ramping up overall distance steadily and then start adding in longer runs in a couple of weeks once the base miles are better established.  Going ok so far.

Good luck everyone with your goals this year :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 14 January, 2020, 05:21:00 pm
i ran the 9km run this saturday with no prior training for a year, except riding bikes. i was pleased about the pace (4:15), however was hit with the most severe doms. i don't feel that i've got myself injured, but three days later the pain is really bad, i walk in small steps like an "old man" and walking down the stairs is quite a challenge.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 14 January, 2020, 06:10:06 pm
i ran the 9km run this saturday with no prior training for a year, except riding bikes. i was pleased about the pace (4:15), however was hit with the most severe doms. i don't feel that i've got myself injured, but three days later the pain is really bad, i walk in small steps like an "old man" and walking down the stairs is quite a challenge.

Yep, that's what you get for running further than your body is used to. Cycling is great for cardio-vascular fitness and certain groups of leg muscles, but the quads and hamstrings are hit much harder by running than cycling.

If you'd been doing even 2-3 5km runs a week then the longer run is unlikely to have resulted in such severe (if any) DOMS.

Cold water on the legs (i.e. cool showers on the lower half or, even better, cool/cold baths) work wonders for me. I'd often come back from a long run and have a warm bath (keeping my legs elevated out of the bath) and then sitting upright, letting the water out slowly and turning the cold tap on and trying to stay in for at least 10 minutes.

At one point my old training regime would often have me doing a HM in the morning one day of the week and then going for an afternoon swim in the local pool whilst my daughter had her lesson. Even a 30 minute gentle swim in 26 deg C water was enough to bring my legs back to life.

If it's really bad then walking backwards down stairs works as it avoids reliance on those specific quads to take your weight each step.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 14 January, 2020, 07:46:17 pm
I’m sure I’ve told the tale before, but in my youth I decided to do some track work. Coming off nice steady road running I went out and ran 16 x 100m.

I spent the thick end of a week shuffling downstairs using my arms to carry my weight on the bannister.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 14 January, 2020, 07:53:36 pm
I did a local duathlon on Sunday, and got the pacing a wee bit off.

4k run at 4:30, hilly 16k bike at full-on 10 mile TT effort, leaving nothing in my legs for the second 4k run at 5:00!

Feeling it today.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 15 January, 2020, 09:48:28 am
8 of them for pre-school running club this morning despite the dark/wet/cold, although 4 of them are semi-coerced as their parents also run.

Ankle held up to more running and less walking, and also trail shoes and more uneven surfaces. Getting back slowly...

[EDIT] Saying that, the next run (C25K W5D3) is a straight 20 minute run bookended by 5 minutes of walking as a warm-up/cool-down. This will be another partial commute for me, with the rest done by Boris Bike.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 17 January, 2020, 11:24:16 am
[EDIT] Saying that, the next run (C25K W5D3) is a straight 20 minute run bookended by 5 minutes of walking as a warm-up/cool-down. This will be another partial commute for me, with the rest done by Boris Bike.

And that went surprisingly well. A gentle parkrun tomorrow with my 10yo, last time she did one was 4 years ago so a PB shouldn't take long.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 20 January, 2020, 11:47:28 am
Steady paced hilly 4 miles on Saturday and a more level 4.9 miles on Sunday giving 16 miles over the last week.  No planned increase this week but will work on a slight increase in pace.
I've entered the 16 mile run in early April but haven't entered the planned half marathon on 1st March in order to avoid pushing the build-up to early.  If I'm ready for that then fine, but I'd rather arrive at the 16 miler fit and well than push too hard too early.
Going well so far...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: fimm on 20 January, 2020, 03:15:20 pm
The first 73 finishers ran sub 20 this morning.

Quite a few of the keener kayak racers also do parkruns.  One weekend they were commenting that they'd just seen someone do the parkrun in a tad over 18min. While pushing a toddler in a 3-wheeled buggy.

Sure, the course was flat, but even so . . .
A friend of my husband's can do this. He was joking that his daughter was "first female" at one of the parkruns they did...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 20 January, 2020, 08:08:17 pm
The first 73 finishers ran sub 20 this morning.

Quite a few of the keener kayak racers also do parkruns.  One weekend they were commenting that they'd just seen someone do the parkrun in a tad over 18min. While pushing a toddler in a 3-wheeled buggy.

Sure, the course was flat, but even so . . .
A friend of my husband's can do this. He was joking that his daughter was "first female" at one of the parkruns they did...

I would say the impressive bit is still getting enough training in to do that after having a child - shows dedication to the running cause!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 20 January, 2020, 08:31:08 pm
On our parkrun's (https://www.parkrun.org.uk/yeovilmontacute/) first birthday, back in 2014, Liz Yelling and her husband Martin were special guests. Martin ran our full cross-country course with a double buggy. He started at the back, so as not to get in the way in the initial rush, but at about 1.2k flew past me as if I were standing still. OK, so he's a professional (or pretty close) and a lot younger than me, but it was still very impressive.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 28 January, 2020, 11:08:03 pm
Training going ok, and mercifully injury free. Did a hilly 4 miles Sat, 10k Sun and 5k this morning. Total weekly is up to 17-18 miles. Similar week planned next week before progressing the long slow run up to 8 miles, then 10 the following week if no problems.
Previous experience suggests it’s the longer runs which shake out the injuries so I’m still not confident enough to enter the half marathon on 1st March, yet. Watch this space.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 31 January, 2020, 08:49:43 am
Week 3 of my Couch to 5k completed. So far so good.

I am noticing some discomfort across the tops of my feet. What could be causing that? My shoes do not seem too tight, and they are the sock type of running shoe so fairly stretchy anyway.  The discomfort (mild) is mostly midway along the first metatarsal. I'd accept it as normal if it had just been during my first few runs, but it seems to be persisting.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 31 January, 2020, 11:40:33 am
Good work!

No idea on the tightness thing although it might be worth reading the shoelace site https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/lacingmethods.htm as there's a load of stuff there about how the different lacing methods affect the pressure on the foot.

Am pretty much done with C25K myself now, I think today should have been a 25 minute run (with 5 minute walking bookends). Swapped it round today and rode a hire bike to Lots Road and then ran in 6km from there. That's the first proper run of 5km or more (i.e. no walking) for over 6 months and I'm happy with no pain/discomfort in the ankle. (The real test will be skiing next week.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 31 January, 2020, 09:59:01 pm
Cheers.

I’ll try loosening things off even more on my next run to try to exclude that as a cause. It may just be my feet getting used to unaccustomed activity of course. Heart and lungs wise I could run further but at the same time I can detect that the rest of me needs time.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 31 January, 2020, 10:36:53 pm
i ran the 9km run this saturday with no prior training for a year, except riding bikes. i was pleased about the pace (4:15), however was hit with the most severe doms. i don't feel that i've got myself injured, but three days later the pain is really bad, i walk in small steps like an "old man" and walking down the stairs is quite a challenge.

(for my own record) doms subsided after about six days however tendons/ligaments in my feet and knees took three weeks to heal. i'll start doing some running every now and then, just to keep my body used to this type of exercise.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 02 February, 2020, 07:50:00 pm
Week 4, run 1 this morning.

Not so good. Ran according to the programme ok, but had pain on the outside of the right hip this time, gluteus medius. It’s easing off a bit now. That pain started right at the start of my run, along with a tight right hamstring. Something clearly not quite right on the right hand side! Also, mild non limiting pain just behind the top of the kneecap, doesn’t get better or worse when running. Is there a recognisable ailment there? ITB?

Another thing: when I last pulled something, it was the gluteus maximus on that side. Again, it was an early Sunday morning run. On both occasions I have been at a pilates class the day before and done more arduous than usual glute stuff. On both occasions I have had some DOMS from the day before.

A lesson there I think.

Onwards. On the plus side, my feet don’t hurt. I suspect heavily padded stretchy sock type uppers spread the loads so evenly that it’s easy not to notice that your laces are too tight.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 19 February, 2020, 05:26:40 pm
Running hasn't been going too badly.  Did a 10 mile trail (mud!) run in Storm Dennis on the weekend but this seems to have exacerbated a slowing developing niggly pain just above my ankle (only hurts the day after), but otherwise came off unscathed from my longest run this year.  Currently doing around 20 to 22 miles a week, ranging from circa 8:30/mile to 9:50 depending on length of run and terrain.
I have a schedule 4 - 5 mile run tomorrow and lower overall mileage this week so hopefully I can resolve the niggle.  Definitely binned off the idea of a half marathon on 1st March a I can see I'm not really ready for it and I'll just end up injured.
Trust everyone else's training is going well?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hot Flatus on 19 February, 2020, 05:42:06 pm
Just getting into running.

Issue is that I could happily run 8 miles non-stop as a first run, but I know that if I do that I'll develop an injury, so its all about s slow build up. A cold and a stag weekend got in the way for 14 days but back to running (gently) three times a week with 15 minutes sandwiched between 5 minute walk warm up and cool down
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 19 February, 2020, 09:19:13 pm
W6R1 on Sunday. The last run of the previous week included a 20 minute run which was fine, so I proceeded to the next week.

Shin splints now, on one side. At least I think that is what it is. Feels like it needs rest. My body is slowly working its way through a series of adaptations, some requiring a pause or even a few steps back. Hopefully I’ll repeat W6R1 this Sunday, and carry on.

I do like running, so it would be good if my body would get itself sorted so that I can focus more on cardiovascular fitness rather than mechanicals.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 19 February, 2020, 10:53:19 pm
I'm back to running again, being quite cautious about ramp up, up to running 4.5k yesterday with a 1km walking cooldown. Twice a week at that is about enough for now. May go up to 5km next week.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 12 March, 2020, 10:06:01 pm
I'm down to do a half marathon at the weekend.
There's been a bit of a change in arrangements, like needing to carry my own water, but they haven't cancelled yet.
I've made it up to 16km in training so I'm hopeful of going round at a run without breaking myself, even if I'm not doing spectacular times.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 15 March, 2020, 01:01:24 pm
6.5 miles of zone 2 today. How slow is that!!

(https://www.instagram.com/p/B9wSuAKnrgTGEYaI-V_EEUAKx1pnkEN7rK8Mxg0/?igshid=1qmgs9ghqotv7)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 15 March, 2020, 01:48:37 pm
Shin splints now, on one side. At least I think that is what it is. Feels like it needs rest. My body is slowly working its way through a series of adaptations, some requiring a pause or even a few steps back. Hopefully I’ll repeat W6R1 this Sunday, and carry on.

I’ve carried on doing that same W6R1 for the past few Sundays, but no other running. This seems to have done the trick as the shin splints have settled down. So I will treat this week as normal W6 and carry on...

I find it quite reassuring that given time my various aches and niggles have sorted themselves out.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 15 March, 2020, 01:56:52 pm
I'm down to do a half marathon at the weekend.
There's been a bit of a change in arrangements, like needing to carry my own water, but they haven't cancelled yet.
I've made it up to 16km in training so I'm hopeful of going round at a run without breaking myself, even if I'm not doing spectacular times.

I got round OK.  :D

It was "scenic" in both senses of the word - 670m of climb in 21km of running, but Birling Gap / Beachy Head / Belle Tout and the downs meeting the sea gives lovely views.

I had cramp twinges in both calfs around 12 / 13km, and was properly tired by the end, but got round in 2:22 (by my GPS, electronic timing was dropped to reduce shared contact points). That's a bit slower than I'd hoped for, but I'm happy. Walking up the hills made for more running the rest of the time.

Today, I can feel the effort in my legs and hips, and one foot aches a bit, but I've been to the shops and walked up and down stairs without problems.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 18 March, 2020, 09:37:46 am
parkrun cancelled nationwide.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 23 March, 2020, 10:30:52 am
Went for my first run in years as working from office today but massively reduced staff so lunchtime walks gone for now
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 23 March, 2020, 10:42:25 am
Just been for a wonderful run - nicest weather for months.  Running is going to be a source of sanity for me in the coming months - I really hope this isn't spoilt by cretins refusing to follow guidelines about gathering in groups and forcing a total ban on outside activity.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 23 March, 2020, 11:33:51 am
Really enjoyed my very early morning run yesterday. Avoided the park next door - already full of cretins veering towards me across empty spaces as if drawn by magnetism. Stuck to wide low traffic streets and crossed over when need be, which was rare.

I agree that it will be a source of sanity.

 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: phantasmagoriana on 23 March, 2020, 11:43:28 am
Also went for a short run this morning (with no gym classes, it's good to start the day with some sort of exercise). I live practically on a popular running route (riverside walkway) which is always popular and particularly so at the moment, but not too bad at 7am and the others out running and walking were generally very good about keeping their distance.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 23 March, 2020, 11:59:22 am
Ran an unintentional personal best half-marathon in training 2 weeks ago but strained a calf and got a cold so have had a fortnight off. Had planned to do 11 miles but the route was flooded and doubled back.  Annoyingly, I finished in 2 hrs 1 minute, and probably lost a minute re-routing and checking the map otherwise I might have just achieved the long sought after sub-2hr time.  Bah.

Planning a gentle 5k tonight to test out the calf.
Keep safe eveyone.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 March, 2020, 12:42:15 pm
Gentle 5k run adjusting the route to avoid as many people as possible. Worked well, probably only got within 2m of two people, and that was still 1.5m away from each of them.

If possible I want to be doing 3-4 x 5k runs a week and then slowly ramp up the distance of one. Anything more adventurous (intervals/etc) can wait until the weight goes down. Most of the runs can be fitted into a normal week as myself and Mrs GB will need the occasional breaks from throttling home teaching our 10yo.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 23 March, 2020, 01:20:02 pm
Did my local 8km loop yesterday. I need to work out a shorter, flatter route I can do easily from home - I'm too slow and unfit for this at the moment. I'm keen to get into the regular habit though. It's likely the only exercise I'll be getting for the foreseeable...

(Yes, I know there's also cycling, but I'm not feeling very tempted to get the bike out, tbh - I've already done my local roads to death. And I really just CBA with the turbo.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 23 March, 2020, 02:13:59 pm
Switched to another attempt at C25K in early February and started week 9 today.  With the impending lockdown of doom I decided to go for the 5K rather than for 30 minutes and hey presto, I did it!

Chuffed to bits but will all my efforts be in vain I wonder?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Phil W on 23 March, 2020, 06:07:57 pm
You can do the 5K2C programme now.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Phil W on 23 March, 2020, 06:11:10 pm
Did my local 8km loop yesterday. I need to work out a shorter, flatter route I can do easily from home - I'm too slow and unfit for this at the moment. I'm keen to get into the regular habit though. It's likely the only exercise I'll be getting for the foreseeable...

(Yes, I know there's also cycling, but I'm not feeling very tempted to get the bike out, tbh - I've already done my local roads to death. And I really just CBA with the turbo.)

I’m exploring some of the old bridleways I used to ride on my mtn bike.  I’m doing it on my recumbent which is a completely different experience. I figure the disused railways / greenways round here will be busy but the bridleways require some map reading skills so will likely remain mostly empty. I’m only doing the ones I think are suitable which are mostly hard park and not rutted or decent farm roads.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 23 March, 2020, 06:44:40 pm
Switched to another attempt at C25K in early February and started week 9 today.  With the impending lockdown of doom I decided to go for the 5K rather than for 30 minutes and hey presto, I did it!

Chuffed to bits but will all my efforts be in vain I wonder?

Brilliant - very pleased to here it!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 23 March, 2020, 06:53:26 pm
You can do the 5K2C programme now.

Not the most ambitious of targets though.

Quote from: sojournermike
...
Brilliant - very pleased to here it!

Thank you.  Much appreciated.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 March, 2020, 07:24:09 pm
You can do the 5K2C programme now.

Not the most ambitious of targets though.

It may all be a moot point past 8.30pm tonight.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 23 March, 2020, 08:42:17 pm
6.3km run today in the sun. strange not to see the emirates cable cars over the thames - they were always there either moving or stopped.

luckily we can still exercise outside.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200323/4fedf5cf827e1c905f8707f28c04c8b6.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 23 March, 2020, 08:57:07 pm
Great news about the allowance of one run (or cycle) per day under the new lockdown advice.  That will do me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 23 March, 2020, 10:42:32 pm
I took Miss Dan Elder and Younger on the first run of a couch to 5k yesterday. My exercise may well alternate between that and a longer solo run for a while.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 23 March, 2020, 10:52:12 pm
Keeping time to minimum is interesting - I've been running slowly a lot.

Meanwhile, back at the allotment committee, we're trying to work out if we can stay open or if working the gardens is banned. I'm inclining to the latter view, even though I don't think it's entirely obvious. Trying to get council guidance tomorrow.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: phantasmagoriana on 24 March, 2020, 07:04:13 am
Great news about the allowance of one run (or cycle) per day under the new lockdown advice.  That will do me.

Yes, good news. :thumbsup: In more normal times I'd run in the morning, but I'll be moving this to lunchtime as of today - purely because if I go out in the morning, that's me indoors for the rest of the day; I'd rather break up the day a bit with some fresh air.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: davelodwig on 24 March, 2020, 03:58:27 pm
Keeping time to minimum is interesting - I've been running slowly a lot.

Meanwhile, back at the allotment committee, we're trying to work out if we can stay open or if working the gardens is banned. I'm inclining to the latter view, even though I don't think it's entirely obvious. Trying to get council guidance tomorrow.

We are hoping our allotments will stay open, they are a short walk from our house (5 minutes at the most if you drag your feet), and we've just put spuds in, and have a ton of muck to move.  We still have the kitchen garden though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 24 March, 2020, 04:06:31 pm
Keeping time to minimum is interesting - I've been running slowly a lot.

Meanwhile, back at the allotment committee, we're trying to work out if we can stay open or if working the gardens is banned. I'm inclining to the latter view, even though I don't think it's entirely obvious. Trying to get council guidance tomorrow.

I think this is one of those 'spirit of the law' vs 'letter of the law' things. Many grey areas.

You could probably justify a bit of digging and planting as 'exercise' and as long as you observe the social distancing rules, it should be a pretty safe activity. Just remember to use gloves and/or wipes when in contact with any potential points of transmission, eg entrance gate, communal taps.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 24 March, 2020, 09:28:46 pm
I managed to injure my Achilles on a duathlon a couple of months back, and it's been a slow road to recovery.
I can currently manage one run of about 5k a week.
I'm a bit sore after that, and need to let it rest for a week before I'm willing to have another cautious run.

Today at lunchtime, I did an 8k with junior who is home from uni.
Basically, half-way of my 8k running commute and then turn around.

I'm sore again, but that's to be expected.
I need to just build things up slowly.

https://www.strava.com/activities/3212727079

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 25 March, 2020, 09:45:10 am
It was quite busy at our local rec at 7:00a.m. this morning but social distancing was being applied much better than it was on Monday.

Did 5k again and feel happy about that. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 25 March, 2020, 10:52:53 am
Went again at 6am. We'll enough after 6 to drink some water and let the chickens out.

Cold but beautiful out. Not far as it really is years since I ran but it's making such a difference to my mood
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 25 March, 2020, 04:11:01 pm
In lieu of my usual 10mile each way commute, I'm trying to top up my aerobic exercise with a bit of jogging. My old (damaged) joints don't really like running, so I don't do a lot. To end of road and back is 4km and I can do that in 20min.

Paddling, 5.5km in 30min is relatively easy for me. I've cranked out 2km in 10min (that was hammering it a bit).

So my paddling speed is not much different to my running speed.
 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 25 March, 2020, 04:14:24 pm
Mr charly Iirc you do kayak racing? That's pretty good going. I paddle a 16 foot open canoe and unfortunately due to having not run in years there is probably not much difference in my speeds in either
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 25 March, 2020, 04:20:08 pm
Mr charly Iirc you do kayak racing? That's pretty good going. I paddle a 16 foot open canoe and unfortunately due to having not run in years there is probably not much difference in my speeds in either
I would race, if they weren't all cancelled . . .
At my level, you need to be able to sustain better than 5:30 per km to be within a chance of being near the front.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 26 March, 2020, 01:00:46 pm
In lieu of my usual 10mile each way commute, I'm trying to top up my aerobic exercise with a bit of jogging. My old (damaged) joints don't really like running, so I don't do a lot. To end of road and back is 4km and I can do that in 20min.

Paddling, 5.5km in 30min is relatively easy for me. I've cranked out 2km in 10min (that was hammering it a bit).

So my paddling speed is not much different to my running speed.

Cross-sport comparisons are fun.  My half-marathon PB on a Concept II Ergo is only 5 mins different from my half-marathon running PB
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 26 March, 2020, 02:48:41 pm
In lieu of my usual 10mile each way commute, I'm trying to top up my aerobic exercise with a bit of jogging. My old (damaged) joints don't really like running, so I don't do a lot. To end of road and back is 4km and I can do that in 20min.

Paddling, 5.5km in 30min is relatively easy for me. I've cranked out 2km in 10min (that was hammering it a bit).

So my paddling speed is not much different to my running speed.

Cross-sport comparisons are fun.  My half-marathon PB on a Concept II Ergo is only 5 mins different from my half-marathon running PB
I sort of object to people comparing times on rowing machines to  'on water' performance (I know you aren't). Rowing, like kayaking, is very technique-heavy. Using a rowing machine takes nearly all the technique requirements out of the picture.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 26 March, 2020, 08:35:39 pm
Too right. Last year out in my canoe going slowly a guy came past at a half decent pace in his kayak. Thing is he was making a right mess of the water and missing strokes etc. I guess if he smoothed his technique he would have been much faster for less effort.

Anyhow this is veering off running. Planning on my third run tomorrow to drop some yeast at a friend's house before work. Also planning on trying to kee it up when all this crap is over as its made a huge difference to my mentality and happiness
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Davef on 27 March, 2020, 06:05:24 am
If you build up slowly you may find your painful joints improve. I run quite a lot these days and don’t have knee issues. That was not the case 10 years ago before I started running.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 28 March, 2020, 06:48:44 pm
Switched to another attempt at C25K in early February and started week 9 today.  With the impending lockdown of doom I decided to go for the 5K rather than for 30 minutes and hey presto, I did it!

Chuffed to bits but will all my efforts be in vain I wonder?

And today I have completed the 9 week programme.  I have in fact taken myself slightly off plan and done a little more most weeks.  It's done: I have "graduated"!!!

I also have a Bridge to 10k schedule that I have drawn up myself.  Hoping to reach 10k before the attack dogs are let out of their kennels ...

If you like a bit of youtube check out The Running Channel.  I have found it to be very motivating.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 28 March, 2020, 10:58:36 pm

And today I have completed the 9 week programme.  I have in fact taken myself slightly off plan and done a little more most weeks.  It's done: I have "graduated"!!!

I also have a Bridge to 10k schedule that I have drawn up myself.  Hoping to reach 10k before the attack dogs are let out of their kennels ...


Well done and good luck with the 10k.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Davef on 29 March, 2020, 06:09:34 pm
I saw an ostrich on my run today. Was hoping for elephants - should have gone earlier in the day.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Sergeant Pluck on 29 March, 2020, 08:04:07 pm
Switched to another attempt at C25K in early February and started week 9 today.  With the impending lockdown of doom I decided to go for the 5K rather than for 30 minutes and hey presto, I did it!

Chuffed to bits but will all my efforts be in vain I wonder?

And today I have completed the 9 week programme.  I have in fact taken myself slightly off plan and done a little more most weeks.  It's done: I have "graduated"!!!


Well done PB!

I’m still languishing on Week 6. For the past few weeks I have done W6R1 and then not done the others during the week, as I’d need to do them before going to work and I haven’t felt up to it. Must do better.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 30 March, 2020, 09:10:29 am
And today I have completed the 9 week programme.

Well done!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 30 March, 2020, 10:11:01 am
Thanks folks.

And in 20 minutes I shall leave the house in my running kit to walk the 1km to the rec which has a safe loop.  Round and round and round I go.    :)

Bridge to 10k starts today.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 30 March, 2020, 10:19:19 am
Wasn't as pleasant this morning with the clocks changing. 6am BST was a lot darker then GMT had been
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 30 March, 2020, 05:02:28 pm
One of the usual 5k routes today. Time down a bit and HRavg down a bit. Dodged the rain.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 01 April, 2020, 07:07:30 am
CV5 today, numbering my return to running during what's going on. Chuffing cold - 3 when I got home but the sun was coming up and everything was crisp and quiet apart from when I took to the road to overtake someone walking and the runners coming the other way had to cross the road. That was all three people I saw in one go. Probably saw two moving cars and around 50 rabbits.... Now where are my snares
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 01 April, 2020, 08:55:07 am
I've found a nice loop from home, 4km off-road, 2km on road. Running on rutted, hummocky ground is so much harder than the road - but oddly it doesn't bother my damaged hip as much as road running. Maybe it is the impact (although I run in super-cushioning Hokkas).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 01 April, 2020, 09:50:19 am
Been working from home for 3 weeks and have concluded my shoes have now done enough miles to warrant replacing for anything but speed work. Only 260 miles, but they are light - New Balance Zante Solas

The Inov-8 X-talon 190s are still fine
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 01 April, 2020, 09:52:38 am
I’ve also managed a couple of point to point 10 milers by hitching a lift with Sue, who has had to travel to look after vulnerable Mim (87 yo). A nice quiet off road run.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 02 April, 2020, 10:47:42 pm
Just under 6 miles tonight in a new pair of Hoka Rincons. A fair bit softer and more resilient than the NB, but seem fine. They still feel a bit big at the heel though. I'm in two minds about big cushioned shoes, although the brand beginning with N show that they can be more faster than the difference between athletes...

I think the Rincons work on longer and slower/medium runs nicely. I'll work out if they've got speed covered later, but I've got some racier shoes on order too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 03 April, 2020, 06:42:13 am
Cv6 this morning. Went a bit further as wife's snoring woke me up a bit earlier. Had a little bit longer before I went out as well which seemed to help. A few cars and vans mostly being driven too fast, one dog walker, one guy litter picking I think and one guy on a bike who needs to give his bike some attention. Heard him coming long before he was passing me on the road
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Davef on 03 April, 2020, 07:03:20 am
Busy on my normal loop yesterday. No people though.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200403/19cf92094b0eac9cc9aa954039d720f0.jpg)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 04 April, 2020, 07:00:30 pm
12 miles very steady this afternoon. Mostly off road and some nice views.

Too many ‘Private - no entry’ signs around for my liking though. Gives a real impression that the estates continue to try and enclose land and keep out out the commoners today as for hundreds of years.

(https://www.instagram.com/p/B-kWoKknJQsV8UpZKtsvnwGK3mcLSv-sge3-fs0/?igshid=5f92fqajn9ee)

(https://www.instagram.com/p/B-kXEPjHriTP9XjxtrSIq9c4Dn6r6kQyBJ6NXU0/?igshid=18oy5hjn0hsv3)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 04 April, 2020, 08:01:53 pm
Pulled a hamstring last week during a sprint session  ::-) so taking a few days off.

Around here (fairly central London) there has been an explosion in running.  Literally 10 times the usual number.  Everytime I look out the window there are runners - mainly young, running singly, in couples or with young kids.  On the pavements and (traffic-free) roads and in those parks that are still open.

This is very unusual.  One of the lockdown by-products might be few hundred thousand new runners who may get the habit & will continue.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 04 April, 2020, 08:33:19 pm
Pulled a hamstring last week during a sprint session  ::-) so taking a few days off.

Around here (fairly central London) there has been an explosion in running.  Literally 10 times the usual number.  Everytime I look out the window there are runners - mainly young, running singly, in couples or with young kids.  On the pavements and (traffic-free) roads and in those parks that are still open.

This is very unusual.  One of the lockdown by-products might be few hundred thousand new runners who may get the habit & will continue.

Similar here in North Yorkshire. Lots more runners, many young. There aren’t so many out where I tend to go, but I like off road and away from it all. Hopefully they’ll stick with it a lower future diabetes and mortality rates.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 06 April, 2020, 08:10:21 am
Been out this morning for my first run beyond 5k.  Allowed myself to take it easier than usual and all went to plan.  Very happy with that.

I notice that there are more early morning runners out now.  I wonder if the behaviour of a few less friendly scrotes locally towards runners has changed people's running times.

I will chase sunrise now until October.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 06 April, 2020, 12:28:02 pm
Cv7 this morning. Had a bad night sleep and a couple of beers last night which I think contributed to it feeling really hard. Warm though and beautiful with sun coming up. Few people about, lots of rabbits a deer and a huge cat that I actually thought was a badger to start with.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 08 April, 2020, 06:58:04 am
CV8 this morning and my first 5k run in years. Relatively warm although a bit of damp in the air. Saw guy with the badly maintained bike again but from where I saw him this time I suspect he may just be out for a ride as the two locations I've seen him in aren't a logical route to anywhere.

Also saw three deer, one jogger. One guy with a mug of tea and loads of rabbits. Did a extra little loop as Strava was showing 4.8km at the point I normally stop to walk the last little bit home
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 08 April, 2020, 07:38:10 am
Chasing the sunrise and the miles, I was out just before sunrise this morning.  Another 5.5km, another satisfying start to the day.

Looking forward to coffee and porridge before a shower and a special parcel all the way from Hong Kong...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 08 April, 2020, 08:02:27 am
I have a regular 6km loop, 4km on hummocky grass and 2km on the road. Pancake flat (this is the fens). 
Felt fit yesterday, so pushed myself a little bit. Dropped average speed from 5 30 to 5 06 per km. Still slow for some people but a lot quicker for me. Main thing slowing me down is that my leg muscles aren't conditioned for running.

Can only manage 2 runs a week. Each one leaves my bad hip hurting for a couple of days. Shame, as I'm enjoying the running and would do more (and further) if I could.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 08 April, 2020, 06:20:45 pm
Chasing the sunrise and the miles, I was out just before sunrise this morning.  Another 5.5km, another satisfying start to the day.

Looking forward to coffee and porridge before a shower and a special parcel all the way from Hong Kong...


Really good to ‘see’ you getting out regularly. Hope you’re keeping safe and well?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 08 April, 2020, 06:21:27 pm
I have a regular 6km loop, 4km on hummocky grass and 2km on the road. Pancake flat (this is the fens). 
Felt fit yesterday, so pushed myself a little bit. Dropped average speed from 5 30 to 5 06 per km. Still slow for some people but a lot quicker for me. Main thing slowing me down is that my leg muscles aren't conditioned for running.

Can only manage 2 runs a week. Each one leaves my bad hip hurting for a couple of days. Shame, as I'm enjoying the running and would do more (and further) if I could.

Even twice a week helps to stave off the cabin fever - right off for a run
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 08 April, 2020, 06:33:10 pm
Chasing the sunrise and the miles, I was out just before sunrise this morning.  Another 5.5km, another satisfying start to the day.

Looking forward to coffee and porridge before a shower and a special parcel all the way from Hong Kong...


Really good to ‘see’ you getting out regularly. Hope you’re keeping safe and well?

Very well thanks.  Yourself?

I'm into a routine now so I should be able to keep going provided that I avoid illness, injury or an attack of the lethargy.

My push for 10k seems far less daunting than getting back to 5k ever did.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 08 April, 2020, 06:37:20 pm
Chasing the sunrise and the miles, I was out just before sunrise this morning.  Another 5.5km, another satisfying start to the day.

Looking forward to coffee and porridge before a shower and a special parcel all the way from Hong Kong...

The parcel arrived.  It is a Logitech webcam ordered from HK as things got sticky.  It cost 1/3 less than from a UK supplier, was actually in stock and was mis-labelled so I didn't get stung for import duty.

Not sure if my conscience can cope with the latter ...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 09 April, 2020, 07:48:30 pm
did a first 10-miler after more than a year. it's getting too hot to run, will only go out early mornings or evenings going forward. thames river was brimming today, water splashing on the thames path in places.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 10 April, 2020, 10:45:57 am
After the BBC unhelpfully shared some information which is neither peer reviewed nor scientifically verified in any way claiming that runners should in fact social distance by at least 10 metres, I fear that the local chav loonies will inevitably target runners even more because of such unbelievable stupidity.

I may be being irrational but regardless, I got up at 5:15a.m. today and was at my local rec for 6:00a.m. for my run.  There were no other humans there but I shared the time with the sun slowly breaking through the line of trees on the east side and creeping it's fingers across the deserted football pitches and children's playground.  The usual snarl of engines and noxious belching of exhausts being replaced with the dawn chorus and clean, fresh air.

Just as I was finishing approximately 35 minutes later the first other person appeared, a dog emptier with a white terrier which seemed delighted at having so much space to bound and frolic in.

So, thanks Aunty for your David Icke moment of sheer stupid lunacy.  You did at least give me a wonderfully clean and empty space to enjoy whilst I push on in my quest to Bridge 2 10K.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 10 April, 2020, 10:51:57 am
I missed that bit of stupidity, PB.  Where/when was it posted?  I may want to write a stiff email!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 10 April, 2020, 11:04:52 am
It was in the BBC's worship bozo daily thread yesterday evening.  I note that the Torygraph has it today too.  I cannot bring myself to read the Torygraph tripe.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 10 April, 2020, 11:09:04 am
BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52225173/page/2)

Just scroll down to timestamp 20:27
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 10 April, 2020, 11:17:03 am
Thanks PB.

I guess we should be blaming the "teams from Eindhoven University of Technology and Leuven University" (who?) for ths unsubstantiated nonsense, but as you say also the BBC and Torygraph for "premature" publication.

I note they also recommend cyclists should ride 20 metres away from others  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 10 April, 2020, 11:38:19 am
And here's an article giving it a bit more scrutiny:-

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/v74az9/the-viral-study-about-runners-spreading-coronavirus-is-not-actually-a-study
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 10 April, 2020, 02:42:50 pm
I have complained to the BBC for repeating "David Icke" like unsubstantiated content and pointed out that at present there is a small minority of individuals behaving like self-appointed enforcers who will accost and runners and cyclists for going about their lawful and as yet harmless business.

I have also suggested that they might want to check the validity and relevance of any material they publish as par for the course but even more so in these difficult times.

I have accused them of being reckless and negligent.

Bet they ignore me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 10 April, 2020, 03:53:46 pm
Did 14k with Junior the Elder today.
Pretty much my running route to work and back.

That's the longest I've done by some margin since injuring my Achilles a couple of months ago!
Previous longest was 8k.
Feeling it a bit twingy now.

https://www.strava.com/activities/3279659338
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 10 April, 2020, 07:11:42 pm
Looks like Aunty has realised and published a 'caveat' post on the "love bozo" news feed.

It's not the unequivocal 'this is bollox' caveat but it does say that there is no evidence re virus transmission in this.

Of course, that will placate the morons, NOT!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 13 April, 2020, 07:34:27 pm
first time in a long while (over a year) managed my benchmark 4.3km loop at under 4min pace; it was hard, and now i've got a dry corona cough.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200414/941abe0454711a67fa0fe76bd22ac711.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 13 April, 2020, 07:41:08 pm
That's good going and matches my fastest-paced runs under 5k on flat routes.  No wonder you were coughing!

My stupidly self-inflicted hamstring is still niggling and hurts after anything longer than a few k.  I'm trying to hold back but am desperate to build up the miles.  Having to content myself on the newly setup turbo trainer, which doesn't seem to impact the hamstring at all.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Davef on 13 April, 2020, 10:07:29 pm
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200413/0edfd954dbf29c7b0c19213ebf08762b.jpg)
Sub 20 5k pace is impressive for a training run. I am enjoying the local wildlife.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 14 April, 2020, 08:16:07 am
Cv9 Friday and did nearly 7km.CV10 should have been yesterday but with run then physical gardening Friday with giving blood squeezed in. More gardening sat and Sunday as well as just generally being busy sorting stuff round house till relatively late and cycles to and from allotment sat as well as work up allotment my legs were saying no so day off and was tempted to go this morning before work but will stick to Mon/weds/Friday and go tomorrow
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 14 April, 2020, 08:28:23 am
first time in a long while (over a year) managed my benchmark 4.3km loop at under 4min pace; it was hard, and now i've got a dry corona cough.

Good run! I get that cough after races (particularly fell races); I think it's just a bit of temporary lung damage.

My average pace has dropped a fair bit. My pre-breakfast 5-10km road run is loops of the village (100m up and down for every 5km), so at 6am I'm lucky to run faster than a 5 minute 1km split. Longer runs are generally offroad. The routes from home are harder technically (sheep tracks on steep stony descents) than where I normally run, so a few of my runs have average pacing in the 7-7.30 per km range, reflecting significant areas of walking both up and down.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 14 April, 2020, 11:49:58 am
first time in a long while (over a year) managed my benchmark 4.3km loop at under 4min pace; it was hard, and now i've got a dry corona cough.

Good run! I get that cough after races (particularly fell races); I think it's just a bit of temporary lung damage.


If I go really hard at anything (hill climbs on a club run, fast 2k or 5k on the ergo) then I can get a bit of a dry cough afterwards - I've always assumed it is exercise induced asthma (which would be consistent with the lungs getting irritated/damaged from an ultra-hard effort) - and also the reason why so many top cyclists struggle with asthma.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Genosse Brymbo on 14 April, 2020, 01:25:44 pm
^^^Is this the so-called "sprinter's cough" which I suffer from after maximal efforts?  I've been hoping that I can distinguish it from the corona cough because it is usually accompanied by a metallic "blood" taste in the back of the throat during the exercise  ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 14 April, 2020, 03:54:23 pm
^^^Is this the so-called "sprinter's cough" which I suffer from after maximal efforts?  I've been hoping that I can distinguish it from the corona cough because it is usually accompanied by a metallic "blood" taste in the back of the throat during the exercise  ;D

sometimes i get the blood taste, sometimes not after a very hard effort. yesterday i didn't, and i suspect my cough was also caused by a large volume of cold air going in and out (temperature was around 7'c). everything is fine today.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 14 April, 2020, 04:11:39 pm
Chasing the sunrise and the miles, I was out just before sunrise this morning.  Another 5.5km, another satisfying start to the day.

Looking forward to coffee and porridge before a shower and a special parcel all the way from Hong Kong...


Really good to ‘see’ you getting out regularly. Hope you’re keeping safe and well?

Very well thanks.  Yourself?

I'm into a routine now so I should be able to keep going provided that I avoid illness, injury or an attack of the lethargy.

My push for 10k seems far less daunting than getting back to 5k ever did.

I am definitely into a groove now.  I am running every other day leaving the house for my warm up walk to the rec at 05:40.  Did my second 6k this morning following on from 6k on Sunday morning.

I really am enjoying running again and it feels far far safer and more rewarding for me than cycling ever did.

Oh, was I typing out loud ...   😊
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 15 April, 2020, 09:57:44 am
first time in a long while (over a year) managed my benchmark 4.3km loop at under 4min pace; it was hard, and now i've got a dry corona cough.

Good run! I get that cough after races (particularly fell races); I think it's just a bit of temporary lung damage.


If I go really hard at anything (hill climbs on a club run, fast 2k or 5k on the ergo) then I can get a bit of a dry cough afterwards - I've always assumed it is exercise induced asthma (which would be consistent with the lungs getting irritated/damaged from an ultra-hard effort) - and also the reason why so many top cyclists struggle with asthma.

Hmm, maybe exercise induced asthma. I used to always get it for a couple of hours after a TT, sometimes accopanied by inabilty to take a full breath in. It didn't hurt, but I could just feel that I didn't have full lung expansion.

If I've done a particularly hard run (30-45 min fell racing really does it because that's 'sprint distance'  :sick:), then the cough and discomfort can linger for about 24 hours. I had to have enforced rest days on the day after evening fell races last year, because I couldn't get my CV system going the next day.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 15 April, 2020, 10:04:27 am
I wonder if these post exercise problems could be improved by some training with a PowerBreathe type device?

I had one for a while but never got into the habit of using it. Binned it as I had left it in the back of a cupboard for ages and thought I'd never get it properly clean again.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 15 April, 2020, 10:51:31 am
it looks like "eib" is a better term for this temporary irritation, as not everyone who occasionally has eib has asthma (which is a more serious condition).

Quote
While it was thought for years that breathing cold air makes EIB worse, more recent studies indicate that the dryness of the air, rather than the temperature, is more likely the trigger. Cold air typically contains less moisture than warm air, and quickly breathing dry air dehydrates the bronchial tubes, causing them to narrow and restrict airflow.
also
Quote
Athletes should check with the governing bodies of their sport about the medicines they are allowed to take to relieve their EIB or asthma symptoms. Another resource is the Prohibited List, published by the World Anti-Doping Agency. Some medications (including beta2-agonists) are considered performance-enhancing drugs and cannot be used by athletes in competition unless a Therapeutic Use Exemption is granted for medical need.

https://acaai.org/asthma/types-asthma/exercise-induced-bronchoconstriction-eib (https://acaai.org/asthma/types-asthma/exercise-induced-bronchoconstriction-eib)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 16 April, 2020, 02:44:22 pm
Junior wanted to have a go at Brimmond Hill, a stiff local climb.
It's one of my lunchtime loops from work.
The off-road navigation is a bit tricksy the first time.

But from home, that would make it Half-Marathon distance, and a hilly one at that, and I doubted my Achilles was up for that.
So I rode to the 4k point, stashed the bike behind a hedge, and ran the remainder with him, out and back as far as the bike.
That cut my run down to a hilly 15k, which was plenty enough for me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 17 April, 2020, 09:22:58 am
local loop around the o2 arena, before the rain comes later on today.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200417/94b9d2a5724705ea7b128e076a11de68.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 17 April, 2020, 05:42:44 pm
local loop around the o2 arena, before the rain comes later on today.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200417/94b9d2a5724705ea7b128e076a11de68.jpg)

Looks nice.  Is that a screenshot from Strava Summit?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 17 April, 2020, 07:11:27 pm
thx, it's a so called "instagram story" (that stays on ig profile for 24hrs before it disappears)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 18 April, 2020, 11:47:18 pm
Easier week this week. I missed Sunday, Monday and Tuesday last week, then ran 5 consecutive days including 12.5 miles on Sunday - plus digging at the allotment. After a 6 mile dog walk on Monday I found I had mildly heavy legs on Tuesday’s run... so just ran 7 on Thursday and did another 6 and a bit today. I’ll probably take it easy tomorrow too.

Fitness seems to be building gradually, so keen to make sure I get enough rest.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 18 April, 2020, 11:49:37 pm
And still undecided about big clumpy shoes. The Hola Rincons are very squishy and cushioned, but still feel big and I do like it when I pull on a pair of flats or fell shoes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 19 April, 2020, 10:28:06 am
And still undecided about big clumpy shoes. The Hola Rincons are very squishy and cushioned, but still feel big and I do like it when I pull on a pair of flats or fell shoes.

After a year off running because of bruising and pain in no2 and no3 toes on the left foot, I visited the new podiatrist practice that had colonised the old doctors' surgery.  They pointed out that arthritic damage meant my toes about 10 degrees rather than the 60 - 90 degrees they should.  She recommended Hoka shoes.  I've been out on them a few times, including 10k mostly on trails a couple of days ago and so far the feet have been good.  So for me the big squishy shoes are quite helpful compensation for the toes that no longer squish like they should.  But there were a couple of times when I hankered for my old light fast Salomons.  I just reminded myself it was comfort or nothing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 20 April, 2020, 08:20:15 am
I bought some hokas a few years back, when I was running 4-5 times a week. A dodgy ankle and hip were complaining a lot. The hokas took a while to break in, but from the start made a huge difference to shock absorption.
Mine seem very light as well. Despite the padding, they are lighter than the Karrimors that I was using.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 20 April, 2020, 11:19:38 am
Did a 4 mile trail run last night exploring some different local paths which I've not done before - largely because they're deep mud all winter and overgrown with nettles in the summer, but it gives some variety and one of them was a useful link between other paths.
Still suffering with calf troubles but seem to be able to run enough to keep fit if I don't push the distance or pace too much.  Which suits me as the weather warms up.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 21 April, 2020, 12:38:45 pm
6km today, start of a build back up to 10km (adding 1km a week to the "long" run). Longest run and almost the fastest run since coming back from a b0rked ankle.

Felt good, the last 4 weeks of 3x5km is a nice, albeit minimal, base.

Looking forward to going back to my old 10km route although not sure it will be entirely suitable given social distancing considerations. Also got a long way to go on weight loss and that will help get the times back somewhere near where they were before.

[EDIT] So the target is to get back to a weekly 10k run by the end of May. From there I can go to ~15k in June and back to HM distance in July. This could set me up nicely for a marathon in 2021 (assuming I get the weight down - I said I wouldn't enter anything [other than the VLM ballot] until my weight began with a 7, which won't be until mid November at the current rate).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 21 April, 2020, 04:25:34 pm
Think tomorrow will CV13 having so far only missed one planned one since I started during lock down . The runs re all above 5km now but not really any changes in pace. Will try and extend the length but will involve getting up earlier
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 April, 2020, 11:38:29 am
Think I've turned a corner. Another 5k run today and felt good so pushed it a bit more and got my first sub-30m 5k since coming back from ankle trouble. Still got to find 1min/km to get back to my old pace, but I was 10kg lighter back then.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 23 April, 2020, 11:59:50 am
Greenback I was confused for a minute by your weight comment but I still work in stones so thought my word 7 stone as a target weight then realised you probably deal in kg
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 23 April, 2020, 02:30:16 pm
so, i can feel a lack of meaning in my runs, mainly as i haven't set any goals to run/train for. therefore i declare (haha) that now i am training for a sub-1h30 half marathon which i will run at the end of may. an interim goal will be sub-40min 10k.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 April, 2020, 02:55:50 pm
so, i can feel a lack of meaning in my runs, mainly as i haven't set any goals to run/train for. therefore i declare (haha) that now i am training for a sub-1h30 half marathon which i will run at the end of may. an interim goal will be sub-40min 10k.

Nice.

VDOT tables show that's about VDOT 51: https://fellrnr.com/wiki/VDOT_Results?Vdot=51&Weight=145&WeightUnits=Pounds&Mileage=40

That gives an estimated HM time of 1:29:57 and a corresponding 10k time of 40:32, so if you get down to sub 40m 10k you're definitely in the right place.

(Still aiming for VDOT 43 myself, that's a sub 1h45m HM and sub 3h45m marathon, but that's a long way away. Scrabbling around at VDOT 31 at the moment!)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 23 April, 2020, 03:37:28 pm
I was a bit worried about that VDOT calculator.  Based on my medicals my VO2 Max ranges between 47 and 50 but with 83Kg and a marathon PB of 3h20m it gave me a VDOT of 85.  Maybe there are some unit differences there. 

If it helps - when I ran my fastest half-marathon (Reading) in 1h26m something I went under the 10k done banner just after the clock ticked past 40 minutes.  But I was inspired to run faster in the second half by someone ahead of me running in a mankini, not a sight I wanted to follow for long.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 April, 2020, 06:02:33 pm
I was a bit worried about that VDOT calculator.  Based on my medicals my VO2 Max ranges between 47 and 50 but with 83Kg and a marathon PB of 3h20m it gave me a VDOT of 85.  Maybe there are some unit differences there. 

You must have typed something in wrong. Weight isn't a component of VDOT, it's purely based on time.

3h20 marathon gives VDOT of 47.2: https://fellrnr.com/wiki/Calculator_Results?Distance=14&Hours=3&Minutes=20&Seconds=0&Temperature=&TempUnits=Fahrenheit&Weight=83&WeightUnits=Kg&Mileage=

But entering a weight will allow the site to guess how your times would change if you gained/lost weight.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Davef on 23 April, 2020, 08:07:23 pm
so, i can feel a lack of meaning in my runs, mainly as i haven't set any goals to run/train for. therefore i declare (haha) that now i am training for a sub-1h30 half marathon which i will run at the end of may. an interim goal will be sub-40min 10k.
I might go for that for end of July, but I suspect I exceed you in  years and kg and therefore need a longer run up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 24 April, 2020, 07:40:49 am
this week's long run

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200424/c437f43fe91947ad747e826e1ead621c.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200424/69b6748c88a6a0054ccee1c0ce92ceed.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200424/bb5cf099372687a74ee03ece1e5c7a59.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200424/07ca03548fbd084b0f15fe6f43a026e4.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 24 April, 2020, 09:16:59 am
Well this morning was a pleasant surprise. Headed out into the countryside for a slightly longer loop and felt like I was struggling. Reassured myself I always find this road hard when cycling and distracted myself with wildlife watching. Lots of hares. Some hares pretending to be mud and some mud pretending to be hares. A little owl that is often in a particular tree and a couple out photographing the wild life

Got home and was my second longest run since I started my lock down running and average speed was sub 5 minutes per k for first time
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 24 April, 2020, 09:39:05 am
Not sure if I'm going to be able to continue running. Doing approx 6km at a bit over 5min per km and it takes 3 days for my hip to recover. For the next two days after a run I'm limping, unable to bend down or do a squat.

$%^$£&£$ arthritis
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 24 April, 2020, 05:22:45 pm
Bollocks.

Rolled my ankle 10k into a 14k route with Junior.
He ran on and came back inna car to get me home.

It's now elevated with an ice pack.
I can almost weight bear to shuffle around, but not easily.

Double bollocks.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 27 April, 2020, 03:56:03 pm
Well that was Week 1 Day 1 of Couch to 5k. I haven't run bar being late for a train in a few years and even then I never did more than a couple weeks at a time.

Went fine, did 2.65 miles in 31 minutes in the end.

Knees grumbled for the first half and towards the end my lower back on one side was a bit twingy but that's gone now. Just doing a gentle warm down half hour on the exercise bike now.

Lots of tree pollen blowing about today.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Davef on 28 April, 2020, 08:16:29 am
Well that was Week 1 Day 1 of Couch to 5k. I haven't run bar being late for a train in a few years and even then I never did more than a couple weeks at a time.

Went fine, did 2.65 miles in 31 minutes in the end.

Knees grumbled for the first half and towards the end my lower back on one side was a bit twingy but that's gone now. Just doing a gentle warm down half hour on the exercise bike now.

Lots of tree pollen blowing about today.
Easy does it. You need to build up slowly. This is particularly true if you are fit but not used to running. Build up too quickly and you will be taking 10 weeks off.


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Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 28 April, 2020, 08:22:02 am
That's exactly why I'm doing C25K. In the past I've gone off too far/too fast/too soon given my cycling fitness being there.

Easy does it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Davef on 28 April, 2020, 08:32:21 am
I thought week 1 day 1 was about 1.7 miles total.


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Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 28 April, 2020, 08:40:44 am
5 minute brisk walk to warm up. Twenty minutes of alternating 60sec jog/90sec brisk walk. And then a final 5 minutes brisk walk to cool down.

I'm a pretty fast walker so that probably accounted for the bulk of the distance.

Legs feel alright today. A little tight on the front of the thigh. But then I did weightlift three days in a row over the weekend.

Doing half an hour on the exercise bike before work but going fairly gently, just getting a bit of blood flowing through the legs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 28 April, 2020, 08:50:34 am
Distance is not important for C25K.  Most people who graduate are not running 5k continuous when they do.   The aim is to increase continuous time on your feet whilst gradually introducing you to running. 

We all walk and run at different speeds.  Experienced runners just like experienced audaxers tend to forget that there are people with lesser capability.

I am happily and comfortably able to do a 7k run now.  Lockdown has been a positive benefit to me in this regard.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 29 April, 2020, 07:00:01 am
6k this morning. First time I hsd to force myself to go out but missed Monday as wife's birthday. Damp and hard work but OK in the end. Usually run Friday next but might go tomorrow, might even treat myself to an after work run as just shy of 60km for the month so be nice to pass that
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 29 April, 2020, 07:08:08 am
5k easy run for me this morning.  Have been running alternate days for the past couple of weeks and had a day off on Monday after doing 6.2k for the 2.6 Challenge last week.  Would have run yesterday but the rain was relentless.

75k for the month.  Best month in terms of distance that I have had in over two decades. 

I am now planning to go back to three runs a week and mix things up with intervals, a short session and a long, slow run each week.  A bit of a change to what I was originally planning but I'm doing it to keep me motivated.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 29 April, 2020, 05:19:07 pm
And that is W1D2 done  :thumbsup:

The plan was to go out this morning as the forecast was cloudy but ok up until lunchtime and then rain afterwards. Well after faffing with work emails and just one more tea-ing I decided to get ready to go out, upon which it started raining  :facepalm:

As the weather radar reckoned I'd have a dry spot if I waited an hour I put the kettle on again.

And lo the rain did stop and I grabbed my GPS watch and my mp3 player. To find that I'd left the mp3 player on and whilst it had gone to sleep it had also nonetheless flattened the battery  :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

It would have been very easy to say sod it especially as it was now sounding quite windy but I gave the player a quick ten minute charge and that was enough to get me round the run. The wind was a bit chilly for shorts and a t-shirt for the warmup walk but I was ok once I got going properly. I definitely need new trainers though.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 30 April, 2020, 09:03:42 am
intervals yesterday, 10k run today, intervals tomorrow.

i plan to do three races (itt's) in may - 5k on the first weekend, 10k on the middle and half marathon on the last.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200430/74e51a2f2926e8321a0c057b1d94002c.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Davef on 30 April, 2020, 09:56:24 am
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200430/21be6436b12d7f23cc5f1e1039efec95.jpg)
Morning run. 12km with flyby.


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Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 30 April, 2020, 09:14:46 pm
Went out this eve for another 6km to push April's total over the 60km mark. Slightly torn as due to my morning runs and today's later run have hardly cycled during lock down and realising if I'm going to push on with the running whole still finding time to do allotment and taking kids out on weekends it's not gonna leave much space for cycling if only doing one exercise a day
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 01 May, 2020, 07:25:31 pm
10k run with 6 × 2min vo2max (3:40) intervals; escaped the rain!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200501/d2e919dd3d7482e86c98194e9c838237.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200501/da845c15c15a0430b7b1cf3cfcb91315.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 02 May, 2020, 12:29:00 pm
Due to the lack of commuting and accompanying MrsC on her permitted exercise walks, I have now run further this year than I have cycled.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: phantasmagoriana on 02 May, 2020, 12:38:13 pm
Due to the lack of commuting and accompanying MrsC on her permitted exercise walks, I have now run further this year than I have cycled.

I don't keep records, but I'm sure I have too (which isn't saying much - I've only ridden a bike a handful of times!).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 03 May, 2020, 09:15:52 am
did my 5k "race" today, started off ambitiously at 3:50, then couldn't hold the pace after 2k. ideal weather (cool and still), not a single person on the pavement. overall time 19:35 and one cheeky kom.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200503/a9c76caa72cda6b017d6850f054a0b5e.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200503/5fdc9a1452b5a6278c5514334d85aa86.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 03 May, 2020, 10:10:30 am
6 weeks later and my left hamstring is still playing up.  I borked it doing some silly interval sprinting  ::-)  Pulled up immediately with a pain to the back upper thigh from the hip down to the knee.  Never had hamstring trouble before but I'm pretty sure that's what it was.

Looked online and because I could walk without limping it sounded like a grade 1 tear (2-3 weeks recovery).  I laid off running for a couple of weeks and since then have been tentatively doing test runs once a week.

There isn't much pain during the run or immediately after, but the next day I get a dull pain - it's moved higher up so almost feels like it's in the rear hip.  Anyone else had similar?

I'm still cycling and am near the end of a TrainerRoad plan so quite hard going.  Cycling doesn't seem to be a problem but I'm wondering if this might be slowing recovery?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Davef on 03 May, 2020, 05:42:32 pm
Never listen to medical advice on the internet .... but I injured my pisiformis muscle (did not know I had one either) in a bike tumble. For quite a while (months) when I ran I got pain down the back of my leg to the knee even though the injury was much higher up. Something to do with sciatic nerve. Having googled I see it can be caused by running as well as falling off bikes.


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Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 03 May, 2020, 06:58:17 pm
did my 5k "race" today, started off ambitiously at 3:50, then couldn't hold the pace after 2k. ideal weather (cool and still), not a single person on the pavement. overall time 19:35 and one cheeky kom.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200503/a9c76caa72cda6b017d6850f054a0b5e.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200503/5fdc9a1452b5a6278c5514334d85aa86.jpg)

Go out fast and fade;) actually, you held in pretty well for a time trial I reckon. Wish I could crack 20 at the moment.

I’ve just lost a week of running to work - stupid when I’m at home all day, but that’s how it is. The very low level of safety net does create some pressure in these times.

Any, got out and managed 9.5 miles this afternoon, off road and that lovely damp late spring early summer feeling. Realised I first ran the route in the autumn of 1988!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 04 May, 2020, 07:49:57 am
Screaming fast times there, zigzag.

Think I might have to give up running. Taking my dodgy hip 2-3 days to recover from a run.

Shame as it is such convenient exercise. Can do it in all weathers, quick to get ready and go.

Might try a bike ride tonight. Lanes around here are few and very boring.

My legs are definitely weaker; I went for a paddle yesterday, following Maff principles (80% at 80% of race pace, 20% at 105% race pace). Legs were the part of my body that fell apart. They were trembling with exhaustion by the time I'd finished.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 04 May, 2020, 08:52:26 am
MrC - are you running on-road or off-road? I know quite a few people who can't run on-road because the harshness of the impact is painful on joints, but who are completely proficient on off-road trails. Some trails might have weird camber, which might not be good with a dodgy hip, but if you could find some not too technical but softer off road stuff you might find that less painful?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 04 May, 2020, 09:22:59 am
MrC - are you running on-road or off-road? I know quite a few people who can't run on-road because the harshness of the impact is painful on joints, but who are completely proficient on off-road trails. Some trails might have weird camber, which might not be good with a dodgy hip, but if you could find some not too technical but softer off road stuff you might find that less painful?
I was running mostly off-road, but the hummocky ground is worse for my hip (and a damaged ankle). It's all pancake flat round here.

Did 10km on friday, reduced my pace a bit (normally I run about 6km, 4km of that off-road). Even my reduced pace resulted in fastest 10km since I started using Strava ('fast' being a relative term; this would be walking for zigzag).

Using Hoka shoes, so plenty of cushioning.

Used to be able to run half-marathons without hip pain (but that was nearly 20 years ago).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 04 May, 2020, 11:00:46 am
C25K W2D1 done.

Didn't seem much harder than W1 so that's good. Glad I went earlier before it gets too warm.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 04 May, 2020, 12:28:26 pm
MrC - are you running on-road or off-road? I know quite a few people who can't run on-road because the harshness of the impact is painful on joints, but who are completely proficient on off-road trails. Some trails might have weird camber, which might not be good with a dodgy hip, but if you could find some not too technical but softer off road stuff you might find that less painful?
I was running mostly off-road, but the hummocky ground is worse for my hip (and a damaged ankle). It's all pancake flat round here.

Did 10km on friday, reduced my pace a bit (normally I run about 6km, 4km of that off-road). Even my reduced pace resulted in fastest 10km since I started using Strava ('fast' being a relative term; this would be walking for zigzag).

Using Hoka shoes, so plenty of cushioning.

Used to be able to run half-marathons without hip pain (but that was nearly 20 years ago).

Couple of thoughts to, hopefully, encourage you

- running adaptation takes time and you might be well served by doing a bit less for a while and sticking with it. Of course, only you know what the impact on your hip is. After my knee op, where I was actually in pretty good shape for age(!) the surgeon view was that I'd be fine if I made sure I kept my muscles strong - quads for me - but building the support is a slow business.

- I've commented about Hoka above and I am getting used to them. However, I still prefer the much flatter ones. Cushioning is a mixed blessing that we adapt to within moments, stiffening or softening our legs to respond. Footfall and gait may be better in lower or less cushioned shoes, although again building up to use these takes time.

Hope you're able to hang in and find a way to stick with it, even as an adjuct to kayaking or cycling it's a good way to see the world.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 04 May, 2020, 12:42:19 pm
It is a good way to see the world. Mixed terrain, not restricted by roads.

I've been running about twice a week since lockdown started. I don't think this is lack of adaption, just legacy from childhood bone disease (perthes).

Doing some exercises to strengthen my flexors, since these wear out when paddling. Maybe that will help.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 04 May, 2020, 09:13:29 pm
I did about 10km on Sunday (9 and a bit followed by C25k early stages with Miss Dan the Elder). That was my first run for a few weeks, coupled with much less walking on lockdown and not walking the hills, I'm feeling it today.

I hope you're on the mend Feanor and finding something that works mrcharly.

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Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 06 May, 2020, 08:48:35 am
Cv16 this morning. I'd be lieing if I said I was up for it. 7 weavung km as basically wanted to go home so kept looping out from near home.

Posted in GPS to see if I can rectify but Strava seemed to have a moment as to my shock I'd averaged sub 5 minute per k splits despite feeling really slow.

When I looked at the splits one is sub 4 minute which frankly isn't right but annoyingly has buggered all my achievements
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 06 May, 2020, 11:38:54 pm
9k run yesterday with four 20s sprints at the end; 12k run today with eight reps up the greenwich park hill (ooh my calves!). gentle 8k run tomorrow.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200506/71b7b384c939185c1a776b33961b97e6.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200506/cc03ce50cdb4eb400bdcec777f5d616d.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 10 May, 2020, 10:20:55 am
Tried a gentle 10km on Friday. Middle of the afternoon, heat was relentless. Really didn't cope with it, had to walk to cool off several times.

Buggered up my dicky ankle in the process. Two days on and I'm limping like I've had a fracture or major sprain (I haven't, just strained a damaged joint).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 10 May, 2020, 10:05:22 pm
look after yourselves chaps, take it easy if you need to.

good to see structured training is giving results: did my control loop of 4.3km at 3:53 pace, without initial intention to push hard. the first km seemed fairly easy, so decided to maintain the pace. the third km always feels harder, but managed to push through and it became easier again once the end was in sight. crazy wind from random directions.

vo2 intervals tomorrow - 6 x 2.5min at 3:30-3:40
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 11 May, 2020, 04:08:09 pm
9km run today, enjoyed it despite it including the horrible (but lovely (https://goo.gl/maps/horp6CkVAyqDAqNY6)) section behind Putney Vale Cemetery (https://www.strava.com/segments/2872047?filter=overall). Still almost 2 minutes slower on that 1.68km segment than my PR but no great surprise at 15kg heavier.

HRavg 5bpm lower than normal on a run although it was noticeably cooler than the last few weeks.

Back to my usual 10k route from next week (which is mostly the same route but with a different ending). First goal is to finish it once, then get it down under an hour (not bad given there's ~100m of climbing over that 10k) and it's actually ~10.7km. Ideally I'll get to sub 50m for it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 12 May, 2020, 12:56:41 pm
Friday took advantage of the day off and went for a slightly longer run on what my mate who knows about running says is a good fast route. He wasn't wrong. My longest run since resuming running at just shy of 8km and 4.44 km splits.

Then pulled back up allotment Saturday so couldn't run Monday. Feeling better today and hopefully will be tomorrow as want to do at least 70km in May
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 12 May, 2020, 06:44:38 pm
I took advantage of the relaxation of the once per day rule (law in Wales) to get 2 runs in today. Pre-breakfast was hill reps for 7.5km - warm up hill is 1.2km (90m gain), then 5 x 500m (45m gain) with the recovery being the run back down (so 5 x 500m), then 1.2km downhill home.

This evening was 9km rolling off road with my dog. It was a really nice run; I was even properly running downhill. I'd forgotten that I actually run better in the evening. The only disadvantage is that there's a lot of people pottering about, and some of the paths require one person to step off the path completely to pass.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Davef on 12 May, 2020, 09:39:29 pm
This evening was 9km rolling off road with my dog..
I am all for a bit of rolling with my dog, but 9km must have got you really dizzy.


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Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 12 May, 2020, 09:57:41 pm
had to cut my interval session after the first interval today as i could feel some unusual pain at the inner back part of my left knee and did not want to take risks; finished with a gentle jog. i hope it goes away soon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: phantasmagoriana on 13 May, 2020, 12:00:48 pm
I've decided to give the Garmin Coach function on my watch a go. First (really short!) "benchmark run" this morning; next up is "stride repeats" on Friday. This appears to be 20s sprints, which I am not looking forward to one bit as I am the world's worst sprinter. :sick: (Admittedly, my "sprint" is probably more of a jog to most people!)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 13 May, 2020, 12:28:12 pm
1 min off my post-ankle recovery 5K PB.

The cooler air helped and it was the first run for a while that felt 'nice' despite pushing it a bit harder than normal for the second half.

(Still 4 minutes to knock off to get back to my real 5k PB, but that's a longer term goal that'll come with weight loss.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 13 May, 2020, 02:46:55 pm
1 min off my post-ankle recovery 5K PB.

The cooler air helped and it was the first run for a while that felt 'nice' despite pushing it a bit harder than normal for the second half.

(Still 4 minutes to knock off to get back to my real 5k PB, but that's a longer term goal that'll come with weight loss.)

Good work!

I don’t expect to ever get back, or even near, to my real 5k PB. I think I’d have to step up to marathon or down to 200m or less to set a real PB now;) Sad, but true.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 13 May, 2020, 03:39:55 pm
I'm aiming to take just over 4 minutes off my PB.

Currently 28:26
PB: 24:24
Aim: 19:59

Going from 98kg (currently 93kg) to under 76kg is the main thing that will help with this.

That current PB was only set a few years ago, it's not like I'm remembering it from 20 years ago where I weighed a lot less and hadn't had years of drinking and smoking to slow me down.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 13 May, 2020, 04:11:50 pm
Well, my suspected left hamstring twinge has turned into a full-blown tear  >:(

I waited 6 weeks from the initial incident (self-identified as a grade 1 tear after an interval sprint) with only cycle trainer stuff in the interim (no pain at all), then went out for a tentative run.  It was absolutely fine and pain-free until I stumbled and twisted my left ankle on an uneven surface.  My knee buckled and there was an intense pain shooting right up the back of the thigh.

I couldn't even walk a few paces so had to call a friend to give me a lift home. 6 days later and it isn't much improved.  Walking more than a few steps is too painful and cycling is totally out (I've tried  ::-)).

The only good news is that within 2 days of ringing my GP I've been booked in for an ultrasound scan next week and a consultation with a sports physiotherapist thereafter.  Bloody amazing service under the circumstances.

Trust me to bork myself just as the regs on outdoor exercise are easing  ::-) ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 14 May, 2020, 01:07:03 pm
I'm aiming to take just over 4 minutes off my PB.

Currently 28:26
PB: 24:24
Aim: 19:59

Going from 98kg (currently 93kg) to under 76kg is the main thing that will help with this.

That current PB was only set a few years ago, it's not like I'm remembering it from 20 years ago where I weighed a lot less and hadn't had years of drinking and smoking to slow me down.

Good stuff. Getting from 98 to 76kg should give you somewhere between 40 seconds and a minute per mile, so very helpful. I always tell myself that the work I do while heavier mud count double to eventual fitness too!

Watching with interest.

My PB was set between 25 and 30 years ago when I was a lot lighter.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 14 May, 2020, 01:28:06 pm
I'm aiming to take just over 4 minutes off my PB.

Currently 28:26
PB: 24:24
Aim: 19:59

Going from 98kg (currently 93kg) to under 76kg is the main thing that will help with this.

That current PB was only set a few years ago, it's not like I'm remembering it from 20 years ago where I weighed a lot less and hadn't had years of drinking and smoking to slow me down.

Good stuff. Getting from 98 to 76kg should give you somewhere between 40 seconds and a minute per mile, so very helpful. I always tell myself that the work I do while heavier mud count double to eventual fitness too!

That 24m24 was when I was 85.8kg, that was the highest VDOT I've seen. Plugging that into the Running calculator on fellrnr.com and (ab)using the "6.2 Weight Adjusted Race Times" sections I get:-

86kg 24m24 = VDOT 39.4
  prediction at 81kg = 23m13

Plugging that in again (I know, it's a big 'what if' and extrapolation but...)

81kg 23m13 = VDOT 41.8
  prediction at 76kg = 22m00

76kg 25m50 = VDOT 44.6
  prediction at 71kg = 20m48

So sub 20m is not completely out of the question. I reckon I can get back to mid 24m 5k before I get down to 86kg though, which should buy a little more wiggle room. What's holding me back at the moment is lack of fitness (I only started running again in December after 6 months off with a partly broken ankle).

76kg is the upper bound of what I want to weigh once I'm through this. Last time I weighed that much I still had a bit of a spare tyre. At the current rate of weight loss it's going to be the end of the year though, so a long way to go.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 15 May, 2020, 01:00:00 pm
so the interval session i had to do on monday, i did on thursday as the knee felt better. all went well, however today the knee pain is back again and in addition to that my left groin started aching. i suspect that there is a problem of misalignment, as my left trainer is near the end of it's life. i still want to run 10k tt on sunday, but no dramas if i have to delay this, depending how i feel.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 15 May, 2020, 01:25:10 pm
Well, on my C25K journey, I did 8k this morning!    :thumbsup:

Cogitating my progress I think that the most psychologically difficult bit was going from run/walk to just run.  In two weeks I plan to set a 1 hour time for my long run and just see where that gets me.  I'm not quick and don't expect to break any records but I have been making tentative plans for a half marathon in October, lockdown or not.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 15 May, 2020, 01:31:42 pm
so the interval session i had to do on monday, i did on thursday as the knee felt better. all went well, however today the knee pain is back again and in addition to that my left groin started aching. i suspect that there is a problem of misalignment, as my left trainer is near the end of it's life. i still want to run 10k tt on sunday, but no dramas if i have to delay this, depending how i feel.

Remember the old adage - never try and run through an injury.  It'll come back to bite you.

See upthread for my recent problem.  I was pretty sure the initial injury was healed and did all the right things in terms of laying off exercise, allowing a decent recovery period, RICE, etc, but still have managed to put myself out of action for weeks if not months.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 15 May, 2020, 01:39:12 pm
Well, on my C25K journey, I did 8k this morning!    :thumbsup:

Cogitating my progress I think that the most psychologically difficult bit was going from run/walk to just run.  In two weeks I plan to set a 1 hour time for my long run and just see where that gets me.  I'm not quick and don't expect to break any records but I have been making tentative plans for a half marathon in October, lockdown or not.

Well done!

At 10% increase per week it's only ~8 weeks from 8k up to 21k, although that's a bit simplistic, no reason why you can't take more time to get there. There's no reason not to target October for a HM.

I love the HM distance. It's far enough to feel like a real achievement but you don't have to worry about feeding or hydration that much (I carry a single 500ml hand bottle on an HM and make sure I'm nicely hydrated before starting - not too much that I want to go for a wee all the time though). I did a month of morning HMs on empty stomachs (I even ran one at the end of a 36h fast although I was carrying some gels just in case as I really didn't know how that was going to go).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 17 May, 2020, 02:57:32 pm
I gave running another go on wed. Stuck to the road to see if my old joints were better with that.
A few twinges, as usual, ran a PB for 10km. So far so good. Hip sore as expected. Went paddling on thursday. Bit pathetic, bit slow. Not awful though.

Friday afternoon someone dropped 100kg of lead weights on me. Ended up abandoning work by 4pm, collapsed on sofa. By Sat I have a sore throat, headache, can't eat, utterly exhausted, drifting in an out of sleep all day.

Yup, looks like i have the bug. Just when paddling has been opened up again.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 17 May, 2020, 05:38:32 pm
I gave running another go on wed. Stuck to the road to see if my old joints were better with that.
A few twinges, as usual, ran a PB for 10km. So far so good. Hip sore as expected. Went paddling on thursday. Bit pathetic, bit slow. Not awful though.

Friday afternoon someone dropped 100kg of lead weights on me. Ended up abandoning work by 4pm, collapsed on sofa. By Sat I have a sore throat, headache, can't eat, utterly exhausted, drifting in an out of sleep all day.

Yup, looks like i have the bug. Just when paddling has been opened up again.

Get well soon Mr C and don’t rush back to exercise/work, not that that will be top of your mind now I imagine.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 17 May, 2020, 05:42:24 pm
5 runs and 1 bike ride this week, for 37 miles running and 14 riding. 11 today, mostly off road. Definitely time for an easy day tomorrow I think.

Still, nice to be in one piece and I love the wild garlic and bluebells I’ve been running through the last couple of weeks.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: phantasmagoriana on 17 May, 2020, 07:51:14 pm
Today's Garmin training plan thingy called for a "long, easy run" - 70 minutes (including 5 mins warm up and 5 mins cool down) which seems weird, as I only signed up to the 10k plan!). In the hope that the rain would keep the hordes away, I opted for the canal path. Still more people than usual about, still some folks who don't seem to understand the concept of single file. ???

Wasn't too bad. Found it quite useful to have an actual pace range to stick to, as I'm guilty of just going at the same pace all the time. Next up is another easy but shorter run (:thumbsup:), then later in the week "speed repeats" of 1 min on/1 min off, which sound horrendous!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 17 May, 2020, 10:12:45 pm
so the interval session i had to do on monday, i did on thursday as the knee felt better. all went well, however today the knee pain is back again and in addition to that my left groin started aching. i suspect that there is a problem of misalignment, as my left trainer is near the end of it's life. i still want to run 10k tt on sunday, but no dramas if i have to delay this, depending how i feel.

so, as planned, set out to run a max effort 10k today, but ran out of steam after 5k and called it quits at 6k when i saw that sub-40 is out of reach. i was overheating and the left leg did not feel 100%; might have to move my goals by a week or two into the future.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200517/ddd7378e671686c4e301988ea0add01b.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 17 May, 2020, 10:27:16 pm
I did about 10km on Sunday (9 and a bit followed by C25k early stages with Miss Dan the Elder). That was my first run for a few weeks, coupled with much less walking on lockdown and not walking the hills, I'm feeling it today.

I felt that for several days. Yesterday I did 8 slightly less hilly km, and feel fine on it. So I'll build back up from there.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 17 May, 2020, 10:35:30 pm
Today's Garmin training plan thingy called for a "long, easy run" - 70 minutes (including 5 mins warm up and 5 mins cool down) which seems weird, as I only signed up to the 10k plan!). In the hope that the rain would keep the hordes away, I opted for the canal path. Still more people than usual about, still some folks who don't seem to understand the concept of single file. ???

Wasn't too bad. Found it quite useful to have an actual pace range to stick to, as I'm guilty of just going at the same pace all the time. Next up is another easy but shorter run (:thumbsup:), then later in the week "speed repeats" of 1 min on/1 min off, which sound horrendous!

One thing bandied around by the "80:20" running crowd is that most people do their fast runs too slow and their slow runs too fast, and so much of the coaching/training is trying to stop that.

I tend to do all of my running at about the same pace but I'm mostly doing it to lose weight rather than get faster (although I do get faster as I get fitter and lighter). Once I get down near my target weight I'm going to focus more on a more varied "proper" training plan.

But it's surprising just how slow a "slow" run should be.

Putting something like a target of 5min/km pace (50min 10k) into https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/ (you don't need to enter your email address) gives 6:34-7:19/km pace for "long runs". That's a huge difference in pace!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 17 May, 2020, 10:48:27 pm
Yup, looks like i have the bug.

Sorry to hear that, good luck.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hot Flatus on 21 May, 2020, 07:29:44 am
Well bollocks, I've injured myself.

Hip pain, hobbling, on left side. I think I know what's done it, not running but yoga. I do yoga most days and last week I thought I'd concentrate on opening up my left hip as it is a lot tighter than the right. I do pigeon pose quite a lot as the cycling tends to tighten things up and there was a big difference in range on left and right.  Anyway, I was successful and a week of deep stretching opened the left.  Felt good to be able to do it.

Cue slightly weird feeling after last Friday's run like a tightness inside where the ham meets the pelvis. The next run felt worse but tightness and not pain, and on yesterdays run the pain arrived.

It seems obvious now that I've overstretched the ligaments and lost stability on the left, and running out of kilter has agitated everything.

So arsebollocks.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 21 May, 2020, 09:17:30 am
Commiserations. What makes being out of action much worse at the moment is every time I look out my window every bugger in the neighbourhood is out running - 10 times more than usual.  Old folks, families with kids, furloughed marathon runners - everyone but me!  My jealousy is unbridled  ;D

The question is - can you cycle?  I couldn't even do that for the last 2 weeks, although I'm tentatively testing that out at the moment.  I'll be slowly cycling down to Waterloo for my ultrasound scan later so hopefully find out if I've done any major damage.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 21 May, 2020, 09:43:01 am
8.5km this morning with 10 × 60s vo2 efforts at 3:26. might have another go at 10k pb as the weather cools down over the weekend.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200521/931208a8d972c0ae3fe211819dd934f7.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hot Flatus on 21 May, 2020, 09:47:10 am
Commiserations. What makes being out of action much worse at the moment is every time I look out my window every bugger in the neighbourhood is out running - 10 times more than usual.  Old folks, families with kids, furloughed marathon runners - everyone but me!  My jealousy is unbridled  ;D

The question is - can you cycle?  I couldn't even do that for the last 2 weeks, although I'm tentatively testing that out at the moment.  I'll be slowly cycling down to Waterloo for my ultrasound scan later so hopefully find out if I've done any major damage.

I probably shouldn't cycle.

I'm kicking myself, because I should have known that my hips are highly mobile anyway. I'll go for a gentle tentative ride later, but if there is a lack of stability it will aggravate the irritation that is already going on. I reckon I need to rest it until it feels normal...might take a few weeks

Fingers crossed for good news from your scan.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 21 May, 2020, 02:47:32 pm
it looks that most posters on this thread has picked up an injury of some sorts, including me. just goes to show how demanding running is on the joints, ligaments and muscles. on a bike you just sit locked in and move legs in one plain - very little to go wrong once the fit is sorted. when running, every step needs to be micro adjusted, due to irregularities of pavement, cornering; also, the stride and associated impact is different at different speeds.

i thought six weeks of mainly gentle running would be enough to get used to new stresses, but once i started structured training and intervals i've got an aching left knee - i believe it's a pulled sartorius muscle or some ligament on the inner side of the knee. when i go out, first kilometer is a bit "ooh!.. ahh!..", but then the pain mostly goes away once warmed up. so i'm keeping an eye on it.

take it easy, our bodies are quite good at healing themselves.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 21 May, 2020, 04:04:23 pm
No injuries yet (anyone about to pick me up when I break something tomorrow)

Got bored with posting CV run updates (and did post an update in the rowing thread by mistake) but generally getting faster and further and looking to do some events in the autumn if they run and aren't massively over subscribed.

Hoping to take advantage of bank holiday and do a longer run but will have to adjust my speed downwards as usually running pre work I have a finite time scale.

Also possibly got a race with the 16/17 year old daughter of a guy who I used to run with as I saw him running shortly after seeing her running and my enquiry of did you catch her was a negative as she's much faster then him now.

I think she may just have the legs on me at the moment but maybe after another month or so of running could be a close er run thing
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 21 May, 2020, 05:11:51 pm
Indeed, no injury problems for me (so far) but then I was coming back from a (5-a-side football induced) ankle injury (no running from Aug 1st to Dec 9th) and had been taking it slowly and steadily through the C25K plan and then a 10% max increase plan of my own.

Stuff is progressing nicely. Going from start of lockdown to now:-

5K: 31m45 down to 28m26
VDOT: 28.79 up to 32.87
5K beats per mile: 1645 down to 1482
Weight: 97kg to 92.10kg (today although that's mostly due to getting pissed last night and being dehydrated this morning)
Longest run: 5.01km up to 10.37km
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 21 May, 2020, 05:27:45 pm
Running is more demanding on joints and ligaments, but I think also more protective in the long term. It gives a more all around conditioning - not that getting on a bike is easy if all you do is run. I picked up a slight Achilles tweak so have had a few days of stretching and a couple of bike rides, but if any of us have the patience to get fast slowly running is very sustainable.

Stay well everyone and remember, usually if you can’t run you can still ride a bike;)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hot Flatus on 21 May, 2020, 05:59:52 pm
To be clear I don't think mine is a running injury.

I think it is a yoga injury that makes running painful.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 21 May, 2020, 06:06:19 pm
Just back from the ultrasound scan.  They found a relatively minor mid-thigh muscle tear which is on its way to healing.  No tendon/ligament damage visible.  Whew!  A bit more r&r and I should be good to go.  Patience  ::-) ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hot Flatus on 21 May, 2020, 06:53:11 pm
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 21 May, 2020, 10:00:08 pm
Just back from an exploratory run 7 miles no pain, so relief.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DuncanM on 22 May, 2020, 08:43:30 am
Just back from the ultrasound scan.  They found a relatively minor mid-thigh muscle tear which is on its way to healing.  No tendon/ligament damage visible.  Whew!  A bit more r&r and I should be good to go.  Patience  ::-) ;D
Good news.  :thumbsup: Take it easy once you are able to do stuff...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 23 May, 2020, 05:13:12 pm
Really happy with run this morning. 10.5km and was making an effort to hold pace back and while it felt pretty easy I was sub 5 min/k which is normally my pace for 6 or 7km runs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 23 May, 2020, 05:27:43 pm
Well I thought I'd have to repeat Week3 of C25K instead of starting Week4 this week. My knees were quite sore last week (probably down to a 90 mile weekend on the bike at the start of Week3) and the total running jumps from 9 minutes to 16.

I was just going to go ahead and repeat Week3 on Monday but decided to try session 1 and see how it went. And it went fine and day 2 went fine again on Wednesday. I even had enough juice to up the pace for the final minute of the last five minute segment. I mean it's just an increase from slow to not quite so slow but I'll take it.

Didn't run Friday as I was hungover and lazy but I popped out today around lunchtime. Apart from it being windy as a windy thing out there it went fine. A couple momentary twinges from the knees and my right Achilles tendon but nothing too bad or long lasting.

Took a good three minutes for my watch to pick up the GPS satellites but that was ok, a longer warmup walk won't hurt.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 23 May, 2020, 06:20:51 pm
I enjoyed sunrise over the local rec this morning as I did a recovery 6k.  Nothing like the pace many achieve in here but that is irrelevant to me.

I worry about knees and calf muscles but in reality I am not suffering at all which is fantastic and slowly but surely I am stretching my distance.  Lockdown has been very good for me.

Next week my long run stretches to 9k. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 23 May, 2020, 06:45:28 pm
I enjoyed sunrise over the local rec this morning as I did a recovery 6k.  Nothing like the pace many achieve in here but that is irrelevant to me.

I worry about knees and calf muscles but in reality I am not suffering at all which is fantastic and slowly but surely I am stretching my distance.  Lockdown has been very good for me.

Next week my long run stretches to 9k.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 23 May, 2020, 06:48:28 pm
Took the oldest out today to get her moving and we did 2.75 miles run/walk. She started out grumpy but got better as she moved - been the same since she was about 5!

Then 3 hours digging a trench at the allotment for the poly tunnel and now having a cup of tea. Might have a little spin on the mtb or a jog before a glass of wine. Mrs S got a really good mark in her latest assignment so reason to celebrate 🎉
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 23 May, 2020, 07:33:05 pm
That's one busy day Mike.

I put my "lack of injury" down to the fact that these days I do a good 12-15 minutes of dynamic stretching then a brisk 12 minute warm up walk to the rec before I run.  Similarly I have a 12 minute cool down wak afterwards and sometimes manage some static stretching or a post workout 15 minutes of yoga.

I never used to bother with all the stretches and warm ups 30 years ago but these days the body complains a bit more.  🤔
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 25 May, 2020, 09:31:10 pm
Couple of miles with Hannah tonight and then a steady 6 on my own. Lovely evening:)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 26 May, 2020, 12:45:41 pm
easy 5k this morning, fullgaz 10k day after tomorrow

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/8db9b932283ac4f8e981af8bcc550795.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/109f88ac31b9148ab9c28e431a1a6479.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/90ae0375aeb2318d8c11850cce85335c.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 26 May, 2020, 11:31:32 pm
5 miles tonight, with a bit of fartlek thrown in. Almost like being young again... but much, much slower
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 27 May, 2020, 11:33:37 am
Missed Monday as Bank Holiday and slept badly so didnt go this morning. Motivation lacking but need to go tonight and Friday to crack 70km for month target
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 27 May, 2020, 12:19:43 pm
9.30am run today instead of 2pm, much nicer but still not as cool as I assume 5am would be (luckily I haven't needed to see 5am for a long time).

Scales post-run showed a BMI of 29.96 which is the first time I've been under BMI 30 for quite a while, but scales post-run don't count so I go with my earlier slightly heavier weigh in (BMI 30.17). So that's still 1/6th of my bodyweight to lose to get down to under BMI 25.

On track for 86.3km this month (assuming I do my one remaining run on Friday) and June will be a bit higher as I'm now up to my usual 10.3km "long" run and I'll look to rejig the week a bit and introduce intervals once I'm down to under 90kg:-

Currently:-

Mon: favourite 10k loop (tricky to fit in as my wife works Monday morning and I work Monday afternoon and we split the home schooling this day)
Wed: 5k (easy-ish, especially if legs are heavy)
Fri: 5k or 6.7k

Should see under 90kg by mid June and so the week will become:-

Sun: favourite 10k loop
Wed: intervals (starting at 6x800m, 90s recover walk between) which is ~7k with a gentle warm-up jog and cool-down walk.
Fri: 5k or 6.7k

Intervals then build up from 6x800m (90s recovery walk between), 5x1000m (100s recovery), 4x1600m (120s recovery) to 10x800m, 8x1000m, 6x1600m where they stay (and the paces just get faster).

The 800m intervals are done at my current 5k pace, so the 10x800m session will have me doing 8k at 5k pace which is why the last intervals are tough and the 90s bits of recovery walking are so nice (and necessary). The 1000m and 1600m intervals are done at slightly faster than current 10k pace (because I won't be covering a full 10k during them). As my 5k and 10k times start to come down then I adjust the interval pacing accordingly, or if my HR is low enough that I can see I've got some spare capacity however being able to finish them is more important than pushing myself too hard. My Garmin Forerunner (935) watch makes it easy to programme in each interval session online and download to the watch, and then it just beeps at me and I just have to follow what it tells me to do on the screen, especially if the pace is below what it should be, and those sweet sweet countdowns of precious recovery time.

These intervals also work well on a 4 week cycle of hard, harder, harder still, and then an easy week. Every 4th week the interval run is replaced with a suitable distance easy flat run so that the body has time to adapt/recover and also so the whole thing doesn't become a spirit crushing endless slog of ever increasing hell.

I'm also relying on plenty of other walking (I average ~50km a week) to act as my 'easy runs' as the plan above does look quite top heavy. It's not ideal but it's the best I can do given the current time constraints.

[EDIT]

For what it's worth, here are my five 4 week blocks of intervals to go from 6x800m/5x1000m/4x1600m up to 10x800m/8x1000m/6x1600m:-

(Distances in brackets but these are based on my 900m warm up jog then running round a ~1350m loop, and then a cool down walk. Obviously I can finish the last interval at any point on the loop so the cool down walk is sometimes longer than normal.) Recoveries are 90s of walking between 800m intervals, 100s between 1000m intervals, 120s between 1600m intervals.

Block 1: 6x800m (7.1), 5x1000m (7.2), 4x1600m (8.5), easy week
Block 2: 7x800m (8.4), 6x1000m (8.2), 4x1600m (8.5), easy week
Block 3: 8x800m (9), 7x1000m (9), 5x1600m (9.6), easy week
Block 4: 9x800m (9.7), 7x1000m (9), 5x1600m (9.6), easy week
Block 5: 10x800m (11), 8x1000m (11), 6x1600m (12.2), easy week

Unfortunately my loop (https://www.strava.com/segments/10929140?filter=overall) isn't quite flat, there's 10m of climb in the first 500m of it, enough to be noticeable, and I can't be bothered to find a different loop I could use that's nearby, without roads to cross and generally OK for social distancing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 28 May, 2020, 08:55:44 am
another attempt at sub-40 10k today. all went well until i got side stitches at ~5.5km and decided to stop at 7k seeing that i won't be able to continue at the required pace. thanks to adamski for the company and pacing!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200528/e594d90ccc6fabebcc7e1ef5565299c7.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 28 May, 2020, 09:15:45 am
Went last night. Found it really hard compared to morning runs. Was a couple of hours after dinner but in mornings run pre breakfast which may have been the reason for lethargic feeling and getting a stitch. Now on 64.64k for month so my 70k target should be easy and tempted to run tomorrow as planned then an early longer one Sunday and try and crack 80km for month.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 28 May, 2020, 09:20:00 am
A bit OT, but times are interesting.

A number of kayaking organisations have been holding 'virtual' time trials around the world. Times are very variable.

Fastest 5km time so far; 17min 30s

Happens to be a very good world level young woman.

'good' club paddlers are hitting 23-24 min (my best 5km is 28min).

17min 30s is absolutely flying!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 29 May, 2020, 01:25:15 pm
On track for 86.3km this month (assuming I do my one remaining run on Friday)

Did that and forgot that I'd moved my 10k run to Sunday so it should be 96km for the month if I'm not lazy.

Most months from now are 90-100km assuming I don't start increasing the long run towards HM distance (I don't think I will yet, at least not until another 5kg or so lost.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 29 May, 2020, 01:38:41 pm
Cv25 this morning. Stiff as old stiff boots with added starch and stiffness but dragged myself round nearly 6km to get over 70 km for the month

Might forgoe a longer weekend run and actually ride my bike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 31 May, 2020, 10:21:07 pm
Slow by the standards of some here, but by putting a little bit of effort in and picking a flat route I got my fastest estimated 5km today, of 26:48, in a 7km run. Which was nice.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 31 May, 2020, 10:24:22 pm
I did the final session of Week 5 this morning which involves a straight twenty minute run sandwiched between the warm up and cool down walks. I think it's been a few years since I've run that long in one go.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 31 May, 2020, 11:35:48 pm
i've hurt my right hip falling off the bike yesterday, couldn't even run today. walked 6.5km this evening, with several attempts to jog at ~6min pace. it was painful, but still feel better for it.

i've signed up for a virtual half-marathon challenge which i should complete next week, if i have to walk it, so be it!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 03 June, 2020, 06:57:20 am
CV27 this morning. Got my numbers wrong so had done two CV16s

Struggled with motivation to go so actually went to allotment Monday which should have been a running day and my early alarm wasn't welcoming this morning

Just over 7k and once I'd stopped being as stiff as an old board after 2km was a decent pace for me and quite enjoyable. Think an event or target might help but as trying to take advantage of the light evening's for a cycle can only fit in so many early morning runs
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 03 June, 2020, 10:43:58 am
World Running Day today!

(No, I didn't know either. Only found out when Garmin Connect gave me a silly digital Internet badge for going for a run today.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 03 June, 2020, 11:07:05 am
Google says its the 5th. Today is apparently World cycling day
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 03 June, 2020, 11:18:18 am
Google says its the 5th. Today is apparently World cycling day

Try googling again. ;)

It was the 5th June 2019. It's the first Wednesday in June.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 03 June, 2020, 11:30:07 am
Well they need to sort their website. Global running day that is not Google. Says June 5th when searched for and when clicked on it says 3rd.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 03 June, 2020, 11:54:30 am
To be fair, it's Google that is parsing the Wikipedia page and pulling out the first date it sees and displaying that as the top result for "World running day".

The precis of the actual global running day website lists the correct date.

Anyway, I did my fastest post-ankle 5K by 24s giving me a new VDOT of 33.5 (target is 43). Beats per mile was also down to1479 which is a new (recent) record for me (I did get down to 1309 when I was lighter and doing marathons.)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 05 June, 2020, 09:44:37 pm
Well managed a couple of off road runs the last two days at 6 and 9 miles. Nice to be out, although I bruised my instep this evening on a slippery root (route!).

Also wore my fell shoes tonight, which always make me smile. Plus only rained for 2 miles today rather than all the way around yesterday - things are looking up
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 08 June, 2020, 07:55:44 am
did a virtual half-marathon (https://www.kaunasmarathon.lt/page) challenge yesterday. having sore right hip from falling off the bike i chose a conservative pace of 4:44/km and finished as planned in under 100min. this run, as expected, aggravated hip injury and i will have to give it at least a month to fully heal before i go out running again.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200608/51941670eb0fdc039c487c88d16eb1f9.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 08 June, 2020, 08:31:21 am
"conservative pace"; I could only dream of being able to run that fast.

Nice pacing, zigzag

Since it was too windy to carry my kayak across the fens to go paddling, I did a 10km jog last night. Knocked 1.5 minutes off my previous best time for 10km. Could have gone faster but several joints weren't happy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 08 June, 2020, 08:51:55 am
thanks, it's all relative, i can also dream about what some other runners can do (but i don't have ambitions to turn into a runner). my "injury-free" target pace would have been 4:14, but as in the old meme, road to success is never a straight line. in the current state, i'm on a lookout for a zimmer frame! ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 08 June, 2020, 09:38:34 am
Some very impressive workouts there guys.

From my more modest station I have knocked 30 seconds off my pace (per km) over the past two weeks on my short and medium runs.  I am beginning to feel stronger and more capable every time I set out which I have to say is an awesome feeling.  Wednesday will be my first 10k for at least 15 years and I am looking forward to it.

As yet no injuries since starting on this adventure in February and going from C25K to running 10K continuous feels like huge progress.  I still break into a big grin when I pass through 5k on my runs.   :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Salvatore on 08 June, 2020, 11:34:09 am
in the current state, i'm on a lookout for a zimmer frame! ;D
steel, aluminium, titanium or carbon fibre?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 08 June, 2020, 01:55:54 pm
Did the first run of C25K Week 7 today which was the same as the final run of Week 6 which I did Saturday - that being 5 min warmup walk, 25 min run and then a 5 min cool down walk.

It was definitely harder today. My left ankle and achilles were twingy even during the warmup walk and when I started my run my feet just felt really heavy, a five minute stitch in the middle didn't help either. I was slower overall, the first km at 5:30 pace but the rest at 5:45 where on Saturday's run I had most of the kms at 5:30 or lower.

Still I did it so that's another one ticked off the list.

Not sure what set the ankle off - it was a bit grumbly on my post service shakedown ride of the Trek yesterday but I suspect the repeated crouching down and standing up and running up and down the stairs whilst doing the service were (hopefully) more of a contributor.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 08 June, 2020, 02:12:25 pm
in the current state, i'm on a lookout for a zimmer frame! ;D
steel, aluminium, titanium or carbon fibre?

if there was a choice - bamboo.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 08 June, 2020, 08:52:38 pm
If its any consolation - at the end of December 2016 I crashed on black ice and badly bruised my right hip (bursitis).  I was on crutches for 3 weeks and didn't run until mid March. after quite a lot of physio.  I started running more seriously in July and set my marathon PB in September - running on trails with 400m+ ascent.  A year and a week after the hip injury I ran Dartmoor end to end, 50km over rough terrain.  There are a lot of good exercises for hip injuries which a physio (if you can get to talk to one) can guide you through, which were a key part of my recovery.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 08 June, 2020, 10:31:51 pm
If its any consolation - at the end of December 2016 I crashed on black ice and badly bruised my right hip (bursitis).  I was on crutches for 3 weeks and didn't run until mid March. after quite a lot of physio.  I started running more seriously in July and set my marathon PB in September - running on trails with 400m+ ascent.  A year and a week after the hip injury I ran Dartmoor end to end, 50km over rough terrain.  There are a lot of good exercises for hip injuries which a physio (if you can get to talk to one) can guide you through, which were a key part of my recovery.

thank you, in my experience so far, given enough time, body knows how to repair itself. i suspect there might be some local inflammation (or similar minor issue) after the impact, which i hope will go away without any special treatment. if needs be, i'll have to see a physio - but i'm not in a hurry just yet.

there is almost no pain when riding bikes - which i will carry on doing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 08 June, 2020, 10:50:25 pm
Usual 10k loop today, lots of apathy and wasn't looking forward to it so I decided to take it easy (try and keep HR below 150bpm on the first half and then below 160bpm for the hilly second half). Mostly managed that but found it much more pleasant (or less unpleasant) and only 90s slower than previously. HRavg of 155bpm which is where I wanted it to be. A cooler day did help.

Have two weeks to grind myself into the ground and then I get an easy week thanks to blood donation scheduled for the 21st.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 09 June, 2020, 12:53:39 am
Just 5 miles this evening. Off road and ran easy - average HR 142, so top end of Z2. A couple of excursions upwards, but generally just enjoyed being out.


PB, good to see to continuing to build up!

Greenbank - how are you finding the 945? Does the elevation map mean that you get sensible altitude and elevation reports? I did a quick ride yesterday and used the Edge 1000 and it had gain and loss matching to within 3 feet over an hour. The 935 always drifts upwards for the first mile or so.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 09 June, 2020, 08:57:55 am
Greenbank - how are you finding the 945? Does the elevation map mean that you get sensible altitude and elevation reports? I did a quick ride yesterday and used the Edge 1000 and it had gain and loss matching to within 3 feet over an hour. The 935 always drifts upwards for the first mile or so.

Haven't really noticed anything different. Never had a noticeable problem with my 935, haven't been doing much riding other than my commute since I've had it (and haven't been on the bike at all since getting the 945).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 09 June, 2020, 09:34:21 am
After a bit of rest due to a sore calf in May (after breaking my 5k PB) I went out on Sunday morning and did a half marathon (mostly trail) run to visit MiniQ.  It's only taken 10 attempts since my 20's but at the age of 51 I finally managed to get comfortably under 2 hours and felt I'd probably be able to shave a few minutes more off that if it was a tarmac course.  I don't know why it's such a big deal to me to beat the 2 hour mark but I'm happy ;D

I've worked hard to avoid injury this year and focused on regular running rather than total distance.  This finally seems to have allowed me to build my mileage up to 20+ miles per week reasonably consistently and it's paying off in improved fitness and strength.  The result is no major aches or pains following the half, just a bit of tiredness and stiffness - due largely to sitting at a desk all day.

Happy running (and cycling) everyone :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 11 June, 2020, 11:25:30 am
I’ve been booked as a pacemaker by an old friend for Saturday morning. Originally she suggested that I should pace her around 10k at 8 minute mile pace, she appears to be having doubts that that will be fast enough. I am getting a bit nervous as she was pretty quick back in the day and it’s not obvious that she won’t decide to try 7.30 or lower - in which case she will be doing the pacing...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 11 June, 2020, 11:44:47 am
A bit tangential, but reading the above post reminded me of one of my running difficulties. I run with a friend who only knows pacing in "x minute mile pace". I only understand "x minute km pace", so often find myself trying to do the mental calculation whilst we run. This is obviously easy for 5 min km/8 min mile, but 4m 30s per km to 7m 15sec per mile is trickier whilst running.

It odd, I can't even remotely comprehend what 6min per mile, or 7 min per mile is, whilst I have a good feel for 3m 45 sec or 4m 20 sec per km is
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Davef on 11 June, 2020, 11:56:54 am
. I run with a friend who only knows pacing in "x minute mile pace".
With a bit of training that will be down to “VII minute mile pace”


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 11 June, 2020, 12:29:29 pm
A bit tangential, but reading the above post reminded me of one of my running difficulties. I run with a friend who only knows pacing in "x minute mile pace". I only understand "x minute km pace", so often find myself trying to do the mental calculation whilst we run. This is obviously easy for 5 min km/8 min mile, but 4m 30s per km to 7m 15sec per mile is trickier whilst running.

It odd, I can't even remotely comprehend what 6min per mile, or 7 min per mile is, whilst I have a good feel for 3m 45 sec or 4m 20 sec per km is


Indeed, I have no comprehension of minutes per kilometre. What is somewhat concerning is that these days I could probably use minutes per kilometre and have similar numbers to my mind per mile pace from xx years ago:(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 14 June, 2020, 09:18:59 am
I’ve been booked as a pacemaker by an old friend for Saturday morning. Originally she suggested that I should pace her around 10k at 8 minute mile pace, she appears to be having doubts that that will be fast enough. I am getting a bit nervous as she was pretty quick back in the day and it’s not obvious that she won’t decide to try 7.30 or lower - in which case she will be doing the pacing...

So we set off uphill at 7.00 min/mile, which I swiftly pulled back:) pleased to say that we completed 10k at 7m 50s per mile. I was pleased with the overall pacing as Harrogate is never less than undulating and we only dropped off for mile 6, which was actually a very gradual climb.

Now for a program to repeat in 8 weeks...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 14 June, 2020, 01:21:39 pm
And a nice ‘easy’ 10 off road miles this morning, including finding a delightful new path along the southern bypass - on top of the embankment and separates by trees and undergrowth.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 14 June, 2020, 01:34:38 pm
Usual-Sunday-in-lockdown 10k this morning. Under the hour, which is what I aim for (there's over 300 feet of climbing on the route). But I was a soggy mess when I'd finished. 83% humidity.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 16 June, 2020, 09:38:48 am
very hot this morning, even for a gentle run hr averaged 163..

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200616/a953e80e764fcd2f9dd2f1f5661a7d19.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 16 June, 2020, 12:27:21 pm
4:59/km at 163bpm! First sign of you being human!

I managed 5:41/km today (albeit cooler than this morning) with an HRavg of 155bpm (my outright PBs are all at an avg about 170bpm and I could probably push 5bpm more than that if I was wearing a number, can't get fully motivated on my own or midfield on a parkrun). The same run two weeks ago (my post-ankle 5k PB) was 5:36/km at 164bpm but that was hot, either that or I'm making good progress on my CV fitness.

Beats per mile down to 1419 too, a new (recent) PB.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 16 June, 2020, 03:05:25 pm
You must all have higher HRmax than I do:(

Threshold is around 159 for me. Max in the low 170s I reckon. Saturday’s 10k was 4:52m/km at 152bpm average. That feels all too human.

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 16 June, 2020, 03:20:33 pm
5-a-side: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1754883341

HRavg = 175bpm
HRmax = 201bpm

But for running the highest I've ever seen my HR is 187bpm (avg 173bpm) which was a relatively quick (for me) parkrun: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/758335639
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 16 June, 2020, 03:55:03 pm
my cycling hr max is 188, running - haven't tested, but i reckon very similar. i've never seen it reach 190bpm.

similar 5min/k runs used to be in the 135-140bpm range in cooler weather; just goes to show how much heat affects my physiology.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 16 June, 2020, 04:47:09 pm
I admit to being mildly jealous! Presumably an age thing as mine was higher when younger.

Oddly, my Garmin reckoned on me having a new HRmax of 178 the other week, but I dismissed it as seeming unlikely. As Greenbank suggests, it’s hard to hit the numbers when you’re not racing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 16 June, 2020, 10:17:26 pm
We already knew that running reduces the prevalence of knee osteoarthritis by about 1/3 and now there is a paper suggesting that (self selected) running isn’t harmful and reduces knee pain in adults over 50 with knee osteoarthritis.

 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6095814/?fbclid=IwAR0U5wUt95K3spBGXXAZXBieYytC_nAyBmdWHfJBq0Ki2-PGukUx8ffWv6I (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6095814/?fbclid=IwAR0U5wUt95K3spBGXXAZXBieYytC_nAyBmdWHfJBq0Ki2-PGukUx8ffWv6I)

I’m sure they told me that running would wear my knees out when I was young, but that was largely people that didn’t move. There’s more and more work showing that we need to keep moving...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 17 June, 2020, 12:58:07 pm
We already knew that running reduces the prevalence of knee osteoarthritis by about 1/3 and now there is a paper suggesting that (self selected) running isn’t harmful and reduces knee pain in adults over 50 with knee osteoarthritis.

 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6095814/?fbclid=IwAR0U5wUt95K3spBGXXAZXBieYytC_nAyBmdWHfJBq0Ki2-PGukUx8ffWv6I (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6095814/?fbclid=IwAR0U5wUt95K3spBGXXAZXBieYytC_nAyBmdWHfJBq0Ki2-PGukUx8ffWv6I)

I’m sure they told me that running would wear my knees out when I was young, but that was largely people that didn’t move. There’s more and more work showing that we need to keep moving...

wearing out your joints from use is still such a universal trope that I have even stopped discussing it.  It is just impossible to change peoples views. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 17 June, 2020, 01:20:30 pm
Hit 173bpm last night, with an average of 156bpm. Stupid lungs are horrible at the mo' - felt good to get some air down into the deep bits.

My form feels horrible at the moment too. I have the style of a newborn calf. Still, injury free and enjoying it. Going through a "I hate Zwift" patch at the mo.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hot Flatus on 17 June, 2020, 04:50:07 pm
Hit 173bpm last night, with an average of 156bpm. Stupid lungs are horrible at the mo' - felt good to get some air down into the deep bits.

My form feels horrible at the moment too. I have the style of a newborn calf. Still, injury free and enjoying it. Going through a "I hate Zwift" patch at the mo.

Just enjoy it, regardless.

I'm injured. Have been for 4-5 weeks, not sure when it will heal and it's awful.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 17 June, 2020, 04:53:59 pm
Hit 173bpm last night, with an average of 156bpm. Stupid lungs are horrible at the mo' - felt good to get some air down into the deep bits.

My form feels horrible at the moment too. I have the style of a newborn calf. Still, injury free and enjoying it. Going through a "I hate Zwift" patch at the mo.

Nice to hear your riding. I’ve noticed a fair amount of pollen in the last couple of weeks and traffic is, sadly, building back up. Does that affect you?

On swift, you could try one of the alternative real life video route apps. I like tacx in the winter, when I can ride summer routes around Europe.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 17 June, 2020, 09:59:10 pm
Ran 10km with the new orthotics on Monday, and the feet are feeling ok.  Pace was only 10 seconds/km slower than when I was running regularly 2 years ago.  Have honed the route so there's less than 1km of tarmac and most is on single track country footpaths by the River Loddon and through local woods.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 17 June, 2020, 10:50:38 pm
Hit 173bpm last night, with an average of 156bpm. Stupid lungs are horrible at the mo' - felt good to get some air down into the deep bits.

My form feels horrible at the moment too. I have the style of a newborn calf. Still, injury free and enjoying it. Going through a "I hate Zwift" patch at the mo.

Nice to hear your riding. I’ve noticed a fair amount of pollen in the last couple of weeks and traffic is, sadly, building back up. Does that affect you?

On swift, you could try one of the alternative real life video route apps. I like tacx in the winter, when I can ride summer routes around Europe.

I'm not sure what's doing it - feels like I need to do more chest physio, but there's only so much huffing and coughing one can do in a day.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 28 June, 2020, 03:14:24 pm
10k today, got caught in a massive downpour between 2km and 3km but don't mind it as it stops me overheating. Sun came out for the last 3km which was nice.

Felt sluggish and its been only 7 days since giving blood, so I decided to ease off slightly and not bother pushing (I don't look at my km splits when running, tend to have the watch just displaying HR and that's it) but came home in the second fastest time this year for that 10k loop. I'll take that.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 28 June, 2020, 03:39:55 pm
Sounds a bit like my morning. Rain at about the same point on my 10k, but fortunately not torrential.
Managed to keep the time under an hour (and there is a serious hill on the route) despite having been awake since half-four.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 29 June, 2020, 07:50:10 am
Too windy all weekend to carry kayak over to the river, so I ran on Sat and Sun. Deliberately kept pace down.

Sat, pleasant run.

Sun, chose new route, 3/4 offroad. About 600m of it was through knee-high nettles. My legs are still glowing.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 29 June, 2020, 08:31:56 am
June has been an interesting month of progress in a year of progress.

Restarted running (again!!!) In January on the C25K programme.

Stuttered along through February but then realised in late February that the gym would close soon so stopped going to the gym and concentrated on running only.

Progressed through March and made the 5k mark in March.

Carried on with a new quest of Bridge to 10k through May.

Each month my monthly total distance run has crept up and today I did my last run of June, an attempt to break 30 minutes for 5k.

So June has once again seen my progress stay on track and make me very happy.  Most kms in a month this year (85), longest single run (10k) and a new sub 30 minutes PB (29:42) for 5k.  That was more than a minute quicker than the previous mark.

I even had a brane wobble due to data overload from Garmin but I have reset the grey cells and put that behind me with the help of my PT.

My target now is to slowly increase the long run and try to be ready for a half marathon at the end of October.  Even if the event is not on I shall run the distance but not the actual course as a lot of it is on roads with no pavements and they can get very busy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 30 June, 2020, 11:03:26 am
Inspiring stuff PB - looking forward to that October half report!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 01 July, 2020, 12:09:44 pm
Dropping the car off for an MOT tomorrow so that's an excuse to go for a run along the river towards Battersea Heliport and back.

I'm also going to start adding an easy Friday morning recovery run to my routine. I don't do enough "easy" running so adding a specific run that's meant to be done slowly should help. The Tuesday run will eventually become intervals so it should shape the week nicely:-

Mon: rest
Tue: intervals
Wed: rest
Thu: 5k steady
Fri: recovery 5k
Sat: rest
Sun: long run (10k currently)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 03 July, 2020, 01:02:35 pm
Slightly different run this morning. I've always used Endomondo for tracking rides and runs. I colleague I used to go riding with at lunchtimes suggested it a very long time ago and I've never bothered changing. It was bought by Under Armour a few years back. Of late it's been less reliable and this morning the app wouldn't connect to the website, so I couldn't use my personalised plans. Instead I used the Apple Watch's Workout app. The biggest difference while running is that I didn't get the km split times. Made a nice change. And with a time of about 27'08" for the 5k, didn't affect my speed either way. Maybe I should mix things up a bit more often.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 05 July, 2020, 11:38:03 am
Dropping the car off for an MOT tomorrow so that's an excuse to go for a run along the river towards Battersea Heliport and back.

Did that and funnily enough ended up at Decrackalon and accidentally bought some table tennis stuff for the outdoor table we just obtained (the bonus present that seems far less extravagant when tacked on to a complete garden overhaul (http://www.greenbank.org/garden.jpg).

10k today, tried to take it a bit slower in order to give me more "low aerobic" time to readdress the imbalance in my "just do some running" style of training (primarily aimed at losing weight rather than getting faster). It's nice going out for a run knowing I don't have to push that hard all the time.

With the last two runs being done more slowly I've managed to push the "low aerobic" up from almost nothing to just inside the optimal range:-

(http://www.greenbank.org/loadfocus_20200705.png)

Not worried about the anaerobic stuff, that'll start to appear when in a few weeks when I start doing intervals again.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 05 July, 2020, 01:12:47 pm
Today I learnt how far I can go pre-breakfast before I hit the wall.  I usually run pre-breakfast, so 5-10km is fairly normal, if it is steady state. I've been pushing up to mid distance and managed 16km last Sunday and 18km on Friday, so thought I'd give 21km a go today. I'm not 100% sure if it's just being pre-breakfast, or also the accumulation of mileage this week, but the 18-20km section was very hard today. It doesn't help that I live on a hill, so this particular route has a 100m incline between 18 and 19.5km.

I'm looking forward to being able to travel to flatter locations on Monday, so I can go somewhere where I can see how I feel at various points in the run and add loops, rather than have to decide to add/remove distance in the middle section. Also being able to go somewhere where falling over isn't going to be extremely painful. I fall over quite a lot (no feeling in one foot) so technical sections on rock (slate) aren't my favourite.

Otherwise, the run was reasonably good. Lots of flooded paths, so very wet feet (I jumped the first stream, seemed a bit pointless after the first random completely flooded long section of footpath). I tried a new footpath I've never done and saw some mini frogs. And I've learnt that I should eat before trying anything longer! 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 07 July, 2020, 02:07:23 pm
Good work!

HM distance was about my limit for running without fuel and on an empty stomach. Not quite as hilly as that, maybe 100m of climb in the first 10km and then the second 11km was nigh on flat (since it was along the river into work).

Usual 5k for me today, fastest of the year, down to 27:20 (taking 38 seconds off my 2020 PB). Unsurprisingly also 2020 PBs for VDOT (34.4) and beats per mile (1418).

Weight has plateaued for the last month but adding to the running and getting back on the portion control is helping.

Recovery 5k jog tomorrow, again it'll be nice to take the pressure off and not have to push that hard.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 08 July, 2020, 01:44:15 pm
Weight is down at the 72/73 kg mark, and running is improving as a result. A couple of weeks easy to let my ankle ease up and feeling good now. Ran 17.5km on Monday, will get out again tonight, although quads a bit tired.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 08 July, 2020, 09:22:47 pm
Took 15 seconds off my 5k PB but I just could not get my breathing right. Had a stitch the entire way round and kept breathing far too fast/lightly.

And I ran in the drizzle because later rain forecast then after I got home the sun came out :eyeroll:

Still at least my ankle was less painful even if not completely right.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 08 July, 2020, 10:14:07 pm
Had a stitch the entire way round and kept breathing far too fast/lightly.

I think the 2 things are connected. What works every time for me when I get a stitch - breathe out as fully as you can then force an extra push.  I visualise trying to completely empty my lungs.  The stitch goes within seconds.

Not always easy when you're at full exertion so maybe have to slow down a bit, but it beats strugging for ages in pain or having to stop completely.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 10 July, 2020, 08:57:56 am
feeling that my hip has almost healed went out for a quick run today. last time i ran properly was a month ago. running felt easy initially, so a kept the pace and finished 4.5km loop at 3:55/km. now i need to build on this to score a sub-40 10k (forty days overdue).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 10 July, 2020, 05:47:41 pm
feeling that my hip has almost healed went out for a quick run today. last time i ran properly was a month ago. running felt easy initially, so a kept the pace and finished 4.5km loop at 3:55/km. now i need to build on this to score a sub-40 10k (forty days overdue).

that is scorching along!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 11 July, 2020, 12:38:47 pm
feeling that my hip has almost healed went out for a quick run today. last time i ran properly was a month ago. running felt easy initially, so a kept the pace and finished 4.5km loop at 3:55/km. now i need to build on this to score a sub-40 10k (forty days overdue).

that is scorching along!

that's the good part. the bad one is that my hip feels painful today and it might be a long way until full recovery. got a new pair of running shoes today with more cushion, hoping they will soften the impacts.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200711/3dbfafb620fb61d68e77aa1d3f790d1f.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 11 July, 2020, 02:53:09 pm
https://youtu.be/iwlvPuAIpKo (https://youtu.be/iwlvPuAIpKo)

Happy hip strengthening.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 11 July, 2020, 08:33:05 pm
I tried a tentative run on Thursday after a complete layoff of 7 weeks due to a hamstring tear (probably grade 2 by the sounds of it).  Fine to start off but felt a definite twinge after 10 minutes so I stopped immediately.  Felt tight for the last 2 days.  Damn!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 14 July, 2020, 09:37:46 am
Got my weeks mixed up, forgot this week was a "hard" week. (I do cycles of {easy, medium, hard, recovery} weeks.)

DayEasyMedHardRecovery
Monrestrestrestrest
Tue5k gentle5k medium5k hard5k gentle
Wed5k recov5k recov5k recov5k recov
Thurestrestrestrest
Fri5k medium5k medium5k medium5k gentle
Satrestrestrestrest
Sun10k gentle10k medium10k hard10k gentle

Current rough paces: 5k recov = 33min, gentle = 31min, 5k medium = 29min, 5k hard = 27min

That means pushing hard on the 5k today, then a recovery jog 5k tomorrow, then a hard 5k on Friday, then pushing on the 10k on Sunday. Ugh.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 14 July, 2020, 12:09:25 pm
That means pushing hard on the 5k today, ... Ugh.

(http://www.greenbank.org/ugh.png)

Ugh indeed. 168bpm average, was aiming for 170bpm but it takes me 6 or so minutes to get up to that HR so the first km of the run (which is uphill) keeps my average down a bit.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 18 July, 2020, 02:46:22 pm
Well yesterday's 5k was my second slowest yet but I also didn't stop at 5km and ended up doing 7km in 42 minutes. So far the longest runs I've done have been a straight 30 minutes which normally gives me 5 and a little bit kilometres.

Should have done 7.5 really but as I got to seven I'd just finished a little hill and gone from merely very hot to mega boiling vision pulsing at the edges hot. So I slowed to a walk and wandered home.

Sore quads today which is a new one (from running at least) but I got out on the bike for just over an hour and knocked out just under fourteen miles despite the wind. I'm happy with that. Now for bacon rolls as all I've had today is two cups of tea and a bowl of strawberries.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 18 July, 2020, 02:58:04 pm
I overdid things last weekend. A 10 k in the morning, then a walk through the woods to one of our local pubs for the first post-lockdown pint.
The run wasn't too bad, but I was only wearing sandals (and fairly flimsy ones at that) for the walk, with the result that I did something to my knee, or rather to the bit just above it. Then I was really stupid and did my normal Monday morning 5k.
Come Wednesday, I set off for that run, did the walk to warm up, then managed about five yards before deciding this was a really stupid idea. Turned round and walked home again.
The leg is much better now, but not 100%. I didn't run yesterday and I am not sure about tomorrow. I certainly won't be doing 10k. Grump, grump.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 19 July, 2020, 11:36:48 am
10k PB[1] by 1 second today. End of the "hard" week. Looking forward to recovery week next week and then intervals begin week after next.

1. Post ankle PB. Still 7 minutes off my 10k PB of a few years ago. Luckily no records exist of 10k times from when I was young and properly fit as those would have probably been a further 10 minutes faster.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 19 July, 2020, 12:47:09 pm
And further to my last post, I managed to bork the other knee yesterday. Just walking across the living room floor. I think something slipped slightly and there is was, worse than the first one. So tomorrow's before work run is looking not sensible. Bah.   >:(
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 19 July, 2020, 03:15:52 pm
Finally - a pain-free run!  Just 2 miles but at a decent pace and hopefully the start back to regular running after the hamstring tear.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 19 July, 2020, 07:34:43 pm
And further to my last post, I managed to bork the other knee yesterday. Just walking across the living room floor. I think something slipped slightly and there is was, worse than the first one. So tomorrow's before work run is looking not sensible. Bah.   >:(

Bad! Sorry.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 19 July, 2020, 07:35:08 pm
Finally - a pain-free run!  Just 2 miles but at a decent pace and hopefully the start back to regular running after the hamstring tear.

Good:)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 21 July, 2020, 04:16:33 pm
I did a 23km run with the purpose of veloviewer explorer square hunting at the weekend. It was muddy and hilly, but good fun exploring. Suspect this could become a thing for me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 21 July, 2020, 05:20:12 pm
I did a 23km run with the purpose of veloviewer explorer square hunting at the weekend. It was muddy and hilly, but good fun exploring. Suspect this could become a thing for me.

:) nice to hear Dr M
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 22 July, 2020, 05:57:45 pm
And further to my last post, I managed to bork the other knee yesterday.
I decided I'd give it a go this morning. MrsC does the vacuuming on Wednesday mornings, when I'm running, so I said I would go out, do the five minute warm-up, then see how things went. If I still couldn't run, I'd complete the routine walking.
I ran for the full half hour. Not fast, not pretty, and with the occasional reminder that I'm not completely fixed, but I ran all the same.
And since then, although things are not perfect, some of the awkwardness, coming down steps for instance, is much improved.
I will probably try the same on Friday and see how things go from there.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 23 July, 2020, 10:14:24 am
Recovery week for me (ahhhhhh) and so today was a gentle 5k at a pace that's 1min/km slower than my fast 5k pace.

Almost twisted an ankle within the first km due to a dodgy road surface and debated stopping and walking back but it seemed fine after that with no pain (really no pain, not that "oof, but we'll see if that gets better" pain that generally indicates something is wrong and will flare up a few hours after running).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 24 July, 2020, 09:50:44 am
Yesterday I ran 10k without stopping or slowing to a walk. In just over 57 minutes!

I suspected it's too big a jump from regular 5ks to do in one go and that I'd ache today but I did it! Though actually I'm not too sore so far anyway. And later my new trainers arrive so I'm not running on worn out three year old £13 trainers from Aldi.

Woot!

I extended my warmup walk as my legs felt quite heavy, did a full kilometer walking before starting the run (my usual warmup is usually 0.5-0.6km), I slowed over the ten kilometres but my first one rolled out in 5:17 which helped the overall time, I was originally intending a fast (for me) 5k but knew I couldn't hold that pace so I eased off to 5:40-5:50ish/km and as I still felt ok at the 5k mark just decided to see if I could at least get 7.5.

As it is I just kept rolling along. I was glad when I could drop down to a walk but not hanging on for dear life so I'm very pleased.

Planning to drop back to 5ks for now and maybe introduce some speed work. Then if the new shoes suit me do one or two short and one longer run a week for the time being.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 24 July, 2020, 11:24:11 am
Congrats, it is a good feel to be able to run 10km. Dropping below an hour always feels like a significant milestone as well.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 24 July, 2020, 11:50:50 am
Yeah very pleased, thought I'd take longer to progress from 5k to 10k so it was a nice surprise.

Wondering about trying my next couple short runs with a backpack to get used to it so I can carry a bit of water and a jacket if I start going longer. I didn't need water yesterday but I was happy to have a drink when I got in. I've got a vague idea of heading up onto the Downs maybe and doing a bit of off road for variety.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 24 July, 2020, 12:13:39 pm
Yeah very pleased, thought I'd take longer to progress from 5k to 10k so it was a nice surprise.

Wondering about trying my next couple short runs with a backpack to get used to it so I can carry a bit of water and a jacket if I start going longer. I didn't need water yesterday but I was happy to have a drink when I got in. I've got a vague idea of heading up onto the Downs maybe and doing a bit of off road for variety.

In general the recommendation is do more than 10% of what you did before, but it's not as simple as just saying that 5km to 10km is a 100% jump and therefore bad, it's got to be taken in context of the weekly load. If you're doing four 5k runs a week (for 20km in total) then making one of them 10km would only mean a 25% weekly distance increase. Dropping one of the 5k runs and replacing another with a 10k run would give you the same weekly load.

It's still not that simple. Doing 4x11km runs in a week doesn't mean that you can do nothing for most of a week and then run a marathon. Your body is going to need to build up getting used to the longer runs. If you can run 5k at a reasonable pace (you're talking about a 5min/km) then pushing on to 10k isn't that tricky.

In general, a large increase in individual run distance will come with an increased risk of injury. Plenty of people get away with going 5k to 10k, but some don't. I'm glad you got away with it.

As for drinks. It's personal. Some people can't do a 5k without carrying water. I'll do a 16km run without taking anything to drink, just make sure I'm hydrated before hand. For anything longer than that I'll take a 500ml hand bottle[1] with me. I prefer not running with anything on my back if I can help it.

But when I used to extend my commute in to work into a HM I used to have to take work ID/wallet/keys/etc with me and so I'd use a small running rucksack and take the hand bottle, when it was finished I'd stuff it in the backpack so I could do the majority of the route without having to hold anything.

Another alternative is something like an IsoGel or two. That way you can get some energy and a bit of hydration (rather than just a normal gel that is hypotonic[2] if not taken with some other fluids).

I could always get a drink shortly after finishing or, if I really needed it, en route somewhere given my commute was into central London and I passed nearby to literally thousands of shops along the way.

1. Something like this: https://www.wiggle.com/ultimate-performance-kielder-handheld-bottle-carrier
2. Can never remember if its hypo- or hyper-, the one that means it'll make you more dehydrated.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 24 July, 2020, 02:44:57 pm
I got some new trainers, and started the c25k app.  I have now done 3 of the runs and last night swapped the walk for 90sec to a run of 90secs and a walk of 60 seconds and extended the distance to 5.3km in 38 minutes including 5 minute walk at the beginning and just under at the end. 

i did the first two runs oven the roads around about us but for this one headed off road over some trails for about 60% which is really why i restarted running to get into the countryside more.

Really enjoying it so far.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 24 July, 2020, 03:45:35 pm
I did my furthest ever run today - 26km. Just before Xmas I'd decided to try to increase my distance ability, up from doing a half marathon maybe once every 6 weeks, but mostly doing 10-15km as my long run. I dislocated my ankle just after Xmas (11 km into a half, so forced to pop it back and hope it would 'run off' in 10km - it really didn't) so that didn't start off so well.

During lockdown I've increased the number of 'middle distance' (8-12km) runs that I've been doing, and I've been generally doing 1 or 2 'medium-long' (12-20km) runs a week. I've been unable to really increase the distance beyond 21km. I live somewhere really hilly, so 21km off-road is a hard run. I've also failed to run fast, because the off-road is too technical for me to run fast downhill and the uphills are, well, uphill. I'm also wanting to up my distance without the pace dropping like a stone.

Today I drove somewhere else to run, and it was marvellous. Just a touch over 2 hours, so a decent enough pace, especially as it's not really flat. My legs felt tired toward the end, but otherwise it felt ok all the way.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 24 July, 2020, 04:21:00 pm
That sounds rather good, Jasmine.  :thumbsup:
And continuing my recovery...
I repeated Wednesday's routine: 5 minute walk, 15 minute run, turn back for home for another 15 minutes, then walk the rest of the way.
A very decent improvement on the last run, going over half a km further overall and managing to get the 5k time under the half hour.
Still hard work and still not completely fixed, but going in the right direction.
I think another flat 5k on Sunday rather than my usual hilly 10k, but at least I am out there doing something.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 25 July, 2020, 11:43:15 am
You were all really helpful with shoe advice which has made a great difference.  Then i started and did 3 runs using an app of run/walk and was heading out this morning for my 4th.  About 100yds from home the heavens opened in a truly biblical fashion.  My choice was to either turn for home or keep going.  Not really cold so decided to keep going.  Then the app stopped playing (I probably stopped it fiddling with my strap). So now it was pouring with rain, the wind started blowing and I had no prompts.  I just ran, I thought worst that can happen is that i run out of wind and have to walk but i cannot be any wetter.  I ran pretty much the whole of just over 5k. One walking bit after the only real hill and Strava gave me 31.02 for the best estimated 5k which was a PB going back over 10 years.  Well chuffed.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 25 July, 2020, 12:05:10 pm
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Excellent!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 25 July, 2020, 02:42:23 pm
Yeah I knew jumping to 10k wasn't a 100% jump like you say but that it was also a bit of a risky jump in one go. I seem to have got away with it as I did a 5k in the rain this morning to test out my new trainers (finally got some) and got Strava Best Effort PBs for 5k, 2 miles, 1 mile and 1k!

Zoom zoom! Though I suspect the rain/coolness was more of a factor than the trainers. Willl see how my legs/ankles feel tomorrow but I think the trainers will do as a stopgap till I can get a proper fitting arranged at the very least.

In other news my tshirt got very wet and there was a touch of chafing  :o which is new. Something to keep in mind if it's raining next time. Should have predicted it but I didn't realise the rain was as heavy as it was till halfway down the road.

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 26 July, 2020, 02:44:55 am
5k in rain I can get away with.

10k in the rain I'll use micropore tape over the nipples.

HM or longer I'll tape up even if it's going to be dry, mostly because I sweat like 10 sweating things and so it's not far off being different from running in the rain.

Some of the photos.... https://runoregonblog.com/2014/03/27/prevent-nipple-chafing-when-you-run/
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 26 July, 2020, 07:52:54 am
A small smear of good old reliable Vaseline deals with 99% of all known nipple chafing.

Not only did we do that in the eighties and nineties (and it worked) but at events there would be the occasional aid station en route with big pots of the stuff for those in need.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 26 July, 2020, 11:33:06 am
A small smear of good old reliable Vaseline deals with 99% of all known nipple chafing.

Not only did we do that in the eighties and nineties (and it worked) but at events there would be the occasional aid station en route with big pots of the stuff for those in need.

No sharing these days I’m afraid.

I’ve never forgotten a friend of mine who is, er, more stout than me finishing the Leeds Half with two stream of blood soaked down his tees hurt. ‘Ouch’, I believe he said for a fair few days.

You can of course now buy a man bra, but tbh I wouldn’t. There again, I’ve been lucky in life and don’t even really have pecs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 26 July, 2020, 11:33:48 am
Chris, brilliant ;D

Keep it up
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 26 July, 2020, 01:00:26 pm
And continuing my recovery...
<snip>
I think another flat 5k on Sunday rather than my usual hilly 10k, but at least I am out there doing something.
Better again today. I'm using a timed routine, rather than a distance one for these. Five minutes walk, fifteen minutes run, turn round, fifteen minutes back, walk home. The total distances tell their own story.

Wednesday 5.27 km
Friday 5.85 km
Today 6.15 km

Tomorrow will be a repeat of this, but expecting to be a little slower, but on Wednesday I may try my current favourite loop, which is a little longer and includes hills.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 26 July, 2020, 01:46:16 pm
A small smear of good old reliable Vaseline deals with 99% of all known nipple chafing.

I'm in the 1% then where vaseline doesn't work reliably for me. It's also not great for modern running fabrics.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 26 July, 2020, 02:53:50 pm
I am very fortunate in that chafing has never been an issue for me.  I note that there are many products on the market now with prices to match the aspirations of many a modern runner. 

I'm well out of date with lots of the "kit" these days. 

Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 26 July, 2020, 06:03:10 pm
We had the biblical rain and winds here on sat. So no kayaking (can't carry boat in that weather). Did a 30min upper-body workout, then followed it with a 10km jog.

Halfway into the jog, I tore a calf muscle. No idea how, I was on a slight downhill, not running fast. Walked for a couple of minutes, thinking it was just cramp and would go; nope. So jogged the rest of the way very slowly. It is a bit sore now. No running for me for at least a week.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 27 July, 2020, 04:34:47 pm
Sunday's usual 10k was moved to today due to booze/apathy.

Means I have to follow it with a 6x800m interval session (at 5:15/km pace) tomorrow. First set of intervals for a year probably. Ugh.

Speaking of which, amazing what a month of aiming to run more slowly does. This was 3 weeks ago:-

(http://www.greenbank.org/loadfocus_20200705.png)

and this is now:-

(http://www.greenbank.org/misc/loadfocus_20200727.png)

(The anaerobic will be sorted out tomorrow hopefully, not looking forward to that...)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 27 July, 2020, 05:02:31 pm
Calves weren't really working this morning so moved today's run to tomorrow. Did a gentle half hour on the exercise bike and some stretching instead.

My calves still don't work right and stairs are an interesting challenge but they're better than they were and at least the joint pain seems to better and it's now just muscular.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 27 July, 2020, 05:36:14 pm
I was going to say, one of the major symptoms of pushing too far in one go is nasty DOMS that will come on a day or two after and last for a good 3-4 days.

If you do another straight 10k like that you'll likely get similar DOMS (but only for 2-3 days).

The only way to avoid it is the progressive/gentle increase in time/distance.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 27 July, 2020, 08:29:36 pm
Yeah I think the calves, like you say, were a result doing a 10k one day and then my fastest ever 5k two days later. The plan for tomorrow is a very gentle 5k if the legs feel a bit better in the morning.

Otherwise I'll just do a gentle spin on the exercise bike again. I have nothing to prove so I'm quite happy to be cautious.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 28 July, 2020, 08:49:51 am
finally i was able to run pain free again, it took two months for my hip to heal. i'll start including interval sessions once or twice a week.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200728/cca0bf6a7c6348bbb83437bbde882483.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 28 July, 2020, 06:30:10 pm
Headed out at 10 to 7 this morning and did a short 6 miler. Felt a bit heavy, so skipped the idea of intervals and just pootled around. Did quite a big weekend, so that may have still been in my legs, or it could just have been that it was early for me to run...

Still 6 more miles in the bag.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 29 July, 2020, 09:32:31 am
I've also suffered from heavy legs this week. Lots of running last week, but light on Saturday, cycling on Sunday. Monday was a 2 run day - 10km steady state (50-55 min) in the morning and then flatwork intervals in the evening. I knew when I got up on Tuesday that my planned hills weren't going to happen, so had to skip it and replace with an evening non-hilly run. Today is my scheduled rest day, so just did a spot of bikejor instead, which is much easier on me.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 29 July, 2020, 10:01:34 am
I have a few days when I feel like my legs have gained weight but over a few more days the effect gradually passes.  Looking at why this happens and investigating training plans I find that it is now normal to have a recovery week every fourth week.  I will be adopting this approach into my plans from now on to see if this helps.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 29 July, 2020, 10:27:17 am
Recovery runs where you run >1minute/km slower than "normal" made a huge difference to my training. I now no longer dread the bulk of my running because it's at a comfortable pace with an HR 20bpm lower than my usual "run" pace.

That and using a 4 week blocks where the individual weeks go: Easy, Medium, Hard, Recovery

I used to be doing every week at somewhere between Medium and Hard and only ended up doing a recovery run when my legs were so battered/heavy or I was so lethargic that I couldn't face doing yet another run at the normal pace. I really noticed the "easy run" idea when I started to help out with the school running club (with some Y4/5/6 kids) and, as long as I wasn't manning the front with the faster Y5/Y6 lot[1], I'd be gently running in the middle or at the back chatting away to them to keep them distracted/motivated. I'd come away from that 4k run with my legs feeling better than they were before, which was an odd concept.

(I won't sugar coat it though. It does mean that there are still runs that I dread. Whilst the bulk of the runs have got easier there are some runs that I now have to do at a harder/faster pace than I was doing before. These aren't fun but they're not too horrid that I'll never do them. The harder you can push in these consistently the more you'll get out of them and the easier it will get in the long run term. The thing that keeps me motivated is the progress I'm making. I may do my usual 5k or 10k loop a bit faster, or it may be about the same time but 5bpm lower HRavg, or my "easy" pace will catch up to what my "medium" pace was a few months ago, etc.)

1. We've had a couple of past Y6 girls do sub-21 minute parkruns. If I am at the front then trying to keep with one of them for a 1km stretch when they say "can we push it on this bit?" is interesting and I'm grateful for the rest as we wait for the others to catch up.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 29 July, 2020, 10:57:34 am
There is a body of thought for training that suggests the bulk of training should be at a lower intensity. Sharp short sessions to add speed.

I've started (when possible) to go for a min 2 hour 'easy' paddle on weekends. 21km takes about 2hr 20min if I'm going slow. Then in the week I just do interval sessions, 5-10km of something like 2' at above race pace, 1' steady.

Two weekends ago went for a longer slow paddle; on the way back I was doing really well, easily maintaining pace well above my normal 'steady'. (that fell apart when my bum started to really hurt.)

Taking it steady is a really refreshing change. Time to focus on technique. Time to look at the scenery.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: hulver on 29 July, 2020, 03:09:04 pm
Just started c25k again. I tried it a few years ago, but gave up after injuries. I'm a big guy (although getting slimmer now) and running is hard on my knees and ankles.

I intend to take it really easy, to avoid injuries again and to give my body a chance to catch up. The first session was fine, fitness wise, as I've been doing a lot of work on the turbo so my fitness is pretty good. A few knee twinges and my ankles are aching like anything a few hours later.

I'll leave it a few days before the next one. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 29 July, 2020, 04:46:14 pm
Just started c25k again. I tried it a few years ago, but gave up after injuries. I'm a big guy (although getting slimmer now) and running is hard on my knees and ankles.

I intend to take it really easy, to avoid injuries again and to give my body a chance to catch up. The first session was fine, fitness wise, as I've been doing a lot of work on the turbo so my fitness is pretty good. A few knee twinges and my ankles are aching like anything a few hours later.

I'll leave it a few days before the next one. Fingers crossed.

Join us on Beardy's C25K thread.   The numbers are small but growing and some of us have finally cracked C25K and have moved on.  It's the best non-cycling support thread on YACF.
 Probably.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 29 July, 2020, 06:09:55 pm
In general, a large increase in individual run distance will come with an increased risk of injury. Plenty of people get away with going 5k to 10k, but some don't. I'm glad you got away with it.

A few years ago, when I was Very Fit Indeed, I was regularly running 8-10km 3-4 times a week. I entered a tough trail marathon, fully intending to build up to it properly. Thought it would be a good idea to do an 'easy' marathon before it by way of preparation.

As it turned out, the local annual marathon happened to be a week before the trail marathon, so I entered that.

For various reasons, my training didn't go to plan, so while I was still doing a fair bit of cycling, my running was not going so well.

I still did both marathons, but they nearly killed me. I couldn't run again for months afterwards, and I'm sure that was the start of my general decline in fitness that I have still not properly recovered from five years later - although there have been a number of other factors in that as well.

So yeah, a salutary lesson - don't overdo it, you will pay for it.

I probably would have been fine if I'd just done the 'easy' marathon.

Managed a nice gentle plod round my favourite 8km loop through the woods yesterday evening - first run for a couple of months, in fact - and really enjoyed it. Mainly because I didn't look at my watch once during the run, so had no idea how slow my pace was. I have to remind myself it doesn't matter - just doing the run is the most important thing. Bit of muscle soreness today but with that and the increase in my cycling lately as well, I feel like I'm starting to get the bug again.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 30 July, 2020, 12:51:05 pm
went out this morning for a longish easy run before the heatwave strikes. how long and how easy? initially set off for 10k and settled for 5:25 pace. as i was heading home i thought maybe i should extend my run further. so carried on along the river and decided to turn back home with the (would be) total of 21.1k. legs tired, couple of blisters, but no pain in joints or ligaments.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 30 July, 2020, 01:06:34 pm
Nice work. Haven't done a HM length run for over a year (indeed, last run >10km was London Marathon 2019). Will start lengthening my Sunday long runs from September onwards (although I've got a blood donation appointment mid-Sep).

Should hit 115km for July assuming I don't find a reason not to do my 5k recovery run tomorrow.

August will be a bit lower, depends on whether I get out for a few runs whilst on holiday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 02 August, 2020, 08:30:42 am
Not run this week at all.  starting work too early and too hot when i finished. A few walks with my wife for her exercise and a couple of bike sessions.  So this morning I had an hour when she would be out doing the early service and I could run before i set up the streaming.  6.6km in 39.51 with a 29minute 5k.  A new PB. Really pleased.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 02 August, 2020, 05:21:57 pm
Not run this week at all.  starting work too early and too hot when i finished. A few walks with my wife for her exercise and a couple of bike sessions.  So this morning I had an hour when she would be out doing the early service and I could run before i set up the streaming.  6.6km in 39.51 with a 29minute 5k.  A new PB. Really pleased.

Good going Chris:)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 04 August, 2020, 04:11:43 pm
5x1km intervals today with 100sec walking recovery between each. Target was 5:34/km pace.

Intervals done in 5:32, 5:30, 5:26, 5:29 and 5:29. Only got up to 171bpm too (10bpm off my general limit for anything other than the sprint to a finish line).

However, that's because this was only 5x1km intervals at just shy (+20s/km) of 5k pace, I've got to build up to doing 8x1km intervals (at just shy of 5k pace) which is where the fun comes in. The last couple of those intervals get rather hideous unsurprisingly.

The other intervals are also building up towards 10x800m at 5k pace and 6x1600m at just shy of 5k pace.

Tuesdays are fun, honest!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 05 August, 2020, 08:17:11 am
5k this morning at a deliberately slower pace.  Would have been happy with 7min and ended up with 6:26/km.  This followed 2 days of commuting by bike.

And another 2lbs weight loss.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 09 August, 2020, 09:37:05 am
A first for me, running before breakfast. It's going to be too hot later, so I got my kit ready last night.
I'd decided that, if I woke up before MrsC, which I tend to, I'd go out rather than lie there reading.
Nice temperature, but rather humid.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 10 August, 2020, 05:57:33 pm
5x1km intervals today with 100sec walking recovery between each. Target was 5:34/km pace.

Intervals done in 5:32, 5:30, 5:26, 5:29 and 5:29. Only got up to 171bpm too (10bpm off my general limit for anything other than the sprint to a finish line).

However, that's because this was only 5x1km intervals at just shy (+20s/km) of 5k pace, I've got to build up to doing 8x1km intervals (at just shy of 5k pace) which is where the fun comes in. The last couple of those intervals get rather hideous unsurprisingly.

The other intervals are also building up towards 10x800m at 5k pace and 6x1600m at just shy of 5k pace.

Tuesdays are fun, honest!

My good friend is doing 500 fast 100 jog 100 fast 500 jog x 6-8 on Tuesdays and some ‘entertaining’ threshold intervals On Thursdays. Every couple of weeks an acceleration run gets thrown in. Should help her 10km times somewhat, and probably her 5kn times too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Davef on 10 August, 2020, 08:01:23 pm
What I found quite useful when aiming for a specific 5k time (20min in my case) was to run 800m at target pace then 200m walk repeated 5 times to make 5k. Then over 3 or 4 weeks increase the pace of the 200m to jog then run then race pace. Not sure of the science but it took me from 21 to sub 20


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 13 August, 2020, 09:01:09 am
good work and decent progress everyone, improving fitness and shedding weight.

6.4km loop around the o2 arena today. pushed quite hard and managed 19:18 5k. as the rain is coming i can now rest and recover with a clear conscience :)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200813/315b33241c52f5d5833a9073df73c85d.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 13 August, 2020, 09:54:35 am
Nice running ZigZag

I've been continuing to build up distance, sometimes doing fast-steady 10-20km, sometimes doing slower runs. Fast-steady = 5 min per km pace for me; it's a pace that I can reasonably comfortably hold over 15km, but I'm feeling it at 20km. I had a pretty slow one at the weekend - 22km in 3 hours. In my defence, there was 800m ascent, and it was almost entirely offroad and outrageously hot. I needed to walk a few descents, but I think it's a good way to build into really long distance, where most people do seem to run-walk.

Unfortunately I've injured myself by falling over on rock slabs this week. My legs are just cut up, so after a day off I seem to be back able to run. I also dislocated a finger, which is still pretty swollen (along with the fingers either side) so I can't ride a bike or hold a pen.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 13 August, 2020, 10:08:14 am
Unfortunately I've injured myself by falling over on rock slabs this week. My legs are just cut up, so after a day off I seem to be back able to run. I also dislocated a finger, which is still pretty swollen (along with the fingers either side) so I can't ride a bike or hold a pen.

oh dear, heal soon. it's only when they don't work you realise how important fingers are in most day-to-day activities.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 14 August, 2020, 02:39:35 pm
Could have done without the 93% humidity this morning.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 19 August, 2020, 10:46:45 am
lovely morning today for a half-marathon. i may start running hm once a month.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200819/11df5c77a2b71fd75b920d5e01e76727.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200819/36c43db7759f7a082a47d0264b80f423.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 21 August, 2020, 10:33:38 am
good weather for running (or strava cycle-doping) today. did eight laps around my local park today amounting to ten miles. legs still tired two days after the half-marathon. passing by the same dog walkers going around the opposite direction many times, almost getting to know them!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200821/dede47df2410c0399738198392c2079a.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200821/26631d0cbe7a646336217f4eb96310cb.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Ashaman42 on 21 August, 2020, 04:56:29 pm
So I headed out with the idea of maybe doing 10k (for only the second time) but not set on it, thought I'd see how I felt after five.

Did a 5 minute warm up and then set off jogging at my usual pace, I was a couple minutes into the first km before I checked my pace as I'm trying to look at my watch less and get used to running by feel. Well that obviously doesn't work because I was at an average of 5:11/km at that point rather than my usual 5:20-5:45.

Well I finished that km in 5:11 and then did the next two at practically the same speed when I had expected my pace to naturally drop. At that point I thought I was on for a good time so I upped the pace for kilometre #4.

Finished that km in sub five minutes and a quick bit of mental maths had me realising if I did similar for the last k I could get sub 26 minutes!

So I huffed and puffed and towards the end was running with one eye on the watch and it just ticked over the minute and I was four seconds too late 😭
Then I realised my mental maths was wacky and actually I was well sub 26 and only four seconds off sub 25!! A PB of 1:14 on my previous fastest!

Needless to say I walked home from there and did not do another 5km.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 23 August, 2020, 02:39:38 pm
cooler weather makes a big difference to heart rate and perceived effort; avg 145bpm today at 4:30 pace over 8km. autumn and winter look promising!

(had to climb over 2m pointy gate/fence, twice, on my run - it was locked for some reason..)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 26 August, 2020, 04:52:24 pm
Went for a run while on holiday. First was 5km on soft sand. My dodgy old bits didn't like that much.

Moved location and then had a 5km trot up and down a stony, rutted track. Really enjoyed it, although my legs were sore for the next two days. A bit of jogging in Cambridge does not prepare you for running downhill!

Then repeated and lengthened the track route. Finally got my hill technique back and really, really enjoyed it. Best of all, no sort bits afterwards. Fastest 1km (downhill) for me, at 4:01. Was taking it easyish, just shows what an incredible difference running downhill can make (if technique is good).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 28 August, 2020, 01:47:32 pm
Today was a long run day - pushing to furthest ever in a single run at 29km. I'd like to have pushed on for another 5 minutes to get 30km, but I ran past the car at 25km*, and then again at 28.7km. I could push on for 300m to make a round km, but I couldn't con myself into another km. Good news is that I managed to keep an average pace of 5 min/km. Not too hilly today, just a bit of rolling terrain giving me only 250m ascent over that distance. I felt really good over 10-16km, pretty good at 20km, but went from "I'm pretty ok" to "this is hard" very quickly at about 22-24km.

*one of my dogs was flagging, so we diverted to put them all in the car whilst I did another 20 min.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 29 August, 2020, 04:54:19 pm
Today was a long run day - pushing to furthest ever in a single run at 29km. I'd like to have pushed on for another 5 minutes to get 30km, but I ran past the car at 25km*, and then again at 28.7km. I could push on for 300m to make a round km, but I couldn't con myself into another km. Good news is that I managed to keep an average pace of 5 min/km. Not too hilly today, just a bit of rolling terrain giving me only 250m ascent over that distance. I felt really good over 10-16km, pretty good at 20km, but went from "I'm pretty ok" to "this is hard" very quickly at about 22-24km.

*one of my dogs was flagging, so we diverted to put them all in the car whilst I did another 20 min.
I'm impressed that you had dogs that could run for 25km, particularly at 5min pace. That isn't slow.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 30 August, 2020, 12:10:54 pm
My 'usual' Sunday morning 10k. First time I've risked it since I damaged my knee back in July. Not fast, but good. The slightly cooler weather was nice.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 30 August, 2020, 12:28:35 pm
No running for 8 days due to apathy which turned out to be the precursor to a big old headcold. Getting over it now though.

Will be the first month for a long time where I didn't do a 10k (holidays and apathy took away the chance/will earlier in the month).

I'm sure I'll be back into it at some point soon, not worrying about it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: L CC on 30 August, 2020, 04:31:22 pm
I'm impressed that you had dogs that could run for 25km, particularly at 5min pace. That isn't slow.
Jasmine has dog(s?) that run canicross. They're canine athletes.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 30 August, 2020, 06:58:03 pm
I'm impressed that you had dogs that could run for 25km, particularly at 5min pace. That isn't slow.
Jasmine has dog(s?) that run canicross. They're canine athletes.

They are indeed! They're collies (with a bit of kelpie) so will run for days. More importantly, I actively train them to run. Building up distance for dogs is similar to building up distance for people, so they've been increasing with me.

I've got into bikejor of late, which really does work the dog, and is a fairly bonkers.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Davef on 30 August, 2020, 07:11:23 pm
There are some beasts in canicross. My dog is on the right !(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200830/1c84066845402415fe858e2644644e8b.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 11 September, 2020, 08:04:00 am
consistent training is working - did a 5k pb today of 18:31 (3:42/km). should i ease off training and maintain my current fitness or aim for a sub-18 5k? it doesn't seem out of reach now!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200911/542fca0c8b2793cf02d295bcb525fb47.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200911/d564a92f03318e6f686cdb94b1208c9d.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 30 September, 2020, 03:15:23 pm
easy 8k watching sunrise, for which there's no need to wake up early these days. many people out there running and enjoying the weather before the gloom arrives.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200930/28fb23d0970999d8fd10436f0af6e7ba.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 01 October, 2020, 11:10:44 am
A single run of 5.09km in September.

Had some symptoms similar to sciatica (never had any back/nerve problems before) so binned running (apart from 5-a-side football).

Had also lost interest in running (which generally happens when I start to increase the swimming and cycling) but starting to miss doing it now so I'll start up again next week and get back into the routine now that my body has got used to the increase in other exercise.

Still too heavy though, but that'll sort it self out eventually if I keep doing the right things (mostly).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 01 October, 2020, 11:49:05 am
47 miles for the month for Sept, giving me 500 for the year so far.  August/Sept have mostly been an exercise in injury management and I'm trying to gently ramp the miles back up with a view to one day running a full marathon distance.  500 miles is way more than I've ever run in any year so the consistency will gradually pay dividends and I'm on track for perhaps 650+ for the year.  My VO2max is up to 48 (according to Garmin) which appears excellent for a 51 year old chap. 

Periodic injury has at least encouraged me to spend more time on the bike, and I've flipped my strategy of ducking out of working from home for a run during the day, and then working late in the evening, to one where I go out at 06:30 and then just work a sensible day.  That's helped the work-life balance by keeping work "in its place" a bit better.

Happy running everyone (and cycling, obviously ;D )
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 04 October, 2020, 01:28:17 pm
VLM 2021 Ballot is open: https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/how-to-enter/ballot-entry/index.html

(It's planned for October next year, not April...)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 04 October, 2020, 05:57:50 pm
CET Junior 2 is trampoling coaching for an hour on Saturday mornings in Alton, which is a 30 minute drive from home.  So that's just enough time to fit in a 10km trail run while I wait.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Davef on 04 October, 2020, 07:23:13 pm
Having not done much running at all in recent months (for me it is an October to April activity) but being quite fit from cycling and swimming I thought I would do the virtual London marathon. Much like kipchoge the first 17 miles were fine. The last third deteriorated very quickly. I am now experiencing more pain then I can ever recall.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 04 October, 2020, 08:44:06 pm
Oh yes, as the saying goes: The marathon starts at mile 20.

(It's usually 28k for me, so around mile 17. That's where all of my runs >26k have run into trouble.)

Well done though!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 04 October, 2020, 11:30:31 pm
Having not done much running at all in recent months (for me it is an October to April activity) but being quite fit from cycling and swimming I thought I would do the virtual London marathon. Much like kipchoge the first 17 miles were fine. The last third deteriorated very quickly. I am now experiencing more pain then I can ever recall.
Congrats.

Completing a marathon (or longer races) seems to be more about the ability of your tendons, ligaments and joints to take the constant pounding.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 06 October, 2020, 07:19:31 am
Been going further. Averaged 70KM a week for the last month, weight dipping below 71kg. Will do a 40km run and maybe a 50km run this month. Going over 35km was uneventful. Motivating myself by exploring the Peak District from my front door. Been over Cut Gate, up to Back Tor, over to Margery Stones and High Stones. Planning to make it as far as Bleaklow Stones (where there's a crashed plane) this month. Last night I ran over Ewden Height and looked up at Pike Lowe (the Strava heatmap suggested no clear path, but on the ground there was literally nothing, and light was fading).

I've joined the FRA and LDWA and also joined Dark Peak Fell Runners. All an excuse to buy some more kit. Some pics from the last month. All between Wharncliffe Crags, Derwent and Langsett.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/USFv-a-o1xn6PD17uvKlRBITov_d3sQtZqle4_2oRoHXm9qfD-oezceSsvtRKLRuPfmBGhe1jCYXwUTb3yBAF0z52aUZHONf-KNLQAd1b0vKxNYQVeq4LrdJVpfxDb5BiD7Kan6hDTA=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DDl9aD_K8ltf3jr7xKGrWfFE2BwW0zA2dvYtVbEOWtHwnmup3xnCckBOCmQCgK6sSD4vSluzfnXHfzNfeZWWLHMkai9qrSDrf9I_dAJO6r6XV5kyo7jebvkbYthqRUkTSjUPuGV37bo=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rRrAEZPbo4y3del6eYkuwGMcA6fDdH1ux_IfcaqtkUH280UoBQyuWPKdJfSpsqLP03Jp76ZylFsXjaqsuu_MyQYQbVE5hKP0MuI5ucURrVoAJD1K46JQGR-WOsAGkXpV7DpfVvyEsY=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zpFhShKH8DG3CAqwPVqgSBZVMtDSJ6eAJ8cFs0vNht4zG0A-2_t-6cGbQF-2U6KMXGCMS9ZkuEKFkPa9SlFfJ8T1V-ycRHGIKDuIsJLz-g33kmjsxeM2jYBnwYXhensAaNt2ZcTseRw=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NDPQOArbqSz3vg7WuYfwvM7_KdtY3xpRNwKumEAUlUsa760OVWPaHp5QoWLZFmI9rEHr24qiOCJk87rWhT5l9pu5WxJCMd5kFkg5ispSmO50Zc6Sf79D4pKpJJ-2IuA-BJprsxD9Dw=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dJMV7p8qHNeOxvf6APadYU1lSQXddg6Cc80IQESPW2UAqk4aetpVJtze9ctnhbwa12OGwObnlEx3LQzymjRaSZcYAedqAxp9lH_0zXldMKf_PTOjoAp_eMY1e5AIsS-H3LkovOsgPuU=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jH_5QfoCX6I4gBJifeFQf_QqHOTJsLUUM7gAlFaEarq_hxdU1HMjXhylN5y7UkGPVu_vaEbuL_e5K879AhckhGv77NvoJwhq_W5_HY-Lcn3gLcDt3HBS6JcTtKxwCvPyWYiUTHybdm4=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/h_4wJy7-pfeQSuLd0yBx-oy6FlVgB5nhKCj04a1Wxvx0R2FmRbGCw-_idtx3j5ZyYf3AX2Won2hWM1qem3K_mZ0aJzyS6iM6Ol09KBp_1NCNeIwh4vpJRM2xioL-FdRp7GwsUWDj4AI=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/X-a-zdvF8H16Ds9i5cdO5teuxpAYO9OkfyUe2oh2qY782B-sToh2qw3_pdPQ2AntBGAYiWcAiIyfOIhHS6lusnTg2gQkPVk0cTs9BnoDaV5MYcAAw-asJxBJotwCxckNgC0_T9upTvk=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eU3H2z_PrQnnl1XYITwEc11vgpcYqkEicwaE85ebtyGWAdjTqAAKC4YpkrxQTb2z3neEKxHzp7shR7A6hYCKATdrLW7OVsNoRnAzOGcpLSemCJiAljIGSUHG-pKXfCnswxqqrCbMm2Y=w2400)





Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 06 October, 2020, 01:36:19 pm
Lots of envy from here DrMekon!

I broke a toe two weeks ago (clumsy not running), which has rather got in the way of building my running back up. I fear that I also need new trainers but nipping to the local running shop at lunch is harder than it used to be.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 06 October, 2020, 01:51:45 pm
Been going further.
<...>

lovely photos and great to see you smile!

my running is currently on hold, as i'm waiting for my pulled left hipflexor (if i'm correct) to heal, planning to resume in a week or two.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 06 October, 2020, 01:53:39 pm
Cheers @Dan

@Zigzag - I've been doing at least a 10 min yoga session every day to ward off hip flexor problems. I slipped on ice in 2018, and it wrote off months for me. Months led to months of doing nothing. It's been a long road back. And yes, happy with my new teeth :)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 09 October, 2020, 02:51:37 pm
VLM 2021 Ballot is open: https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/how-to-enter/ballot-entry/index.html

(It's planned for October next year, not April...)

final couple of hours to register, if anyone's thinking.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 09 October, 2020, 05:18:43 pm
Looking good Dr M :thumbsup:

I've been running very intermittently in the last couple of years, but Mrs ED has taken it up with a vengeance in lockdown, C25K and beyond, and has challenged me to a race.

I went out last night as the wind dropped (otherwise would have dreadmilled it) with an exploratory "let's see where I am" mindset. HR plan was 145 max, ended up average 148 and max 152 so a bit high. Set off too fast and pace dipped as a result to maintain the HR. Last km was at 6:52, average about 6:15-6:20, so much slower than when I was run-trained. I was worried about the effect on my lower back, but today that seems fine. left hip is a bit tight and quads are feeling it - it's surprising how sport specific fitness can be, cycling at that HR for an hour and I'd feel nothing.

Will aim to include one run per week at aerobic HR
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 13 October, 2020, 02:10:09 pm
I've found the Down Dog app amazing for keeping my body in shape for running. Head, heart and lungs don't struggle, but the rest of my body hates running. The down dog app let you specify where you want to focus in terms of strength or flexibility, then makes you a yoga workout to fit your time / style requirements. I'm finding I need to regularly work on my lower back strength, my ankles, and my hamstrings, and occasionally my quads, hips and hip flexors. I do a couple of 10m blocks a day, and a couple of longer ones (never more than 40 mins) on rest days. It's been a huge change in terms of making running sustainable for me, and done my head no harm either.

https://www.downdogapp.com/

If you sign up via email, they say they are absolutely fine with people sharing login details, which is very cool in my book.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 13 October, 2020, 03:58:23 pm
Thanks for this DrMekon. I'm having difficulty with a strained achilles at the moment, so this might help me. I think I have the same as you - no cardio-vascular difficulty with increasing distance but my body isn't used to the bashing in my legs. I think maybe it might help me fall over a bit less too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 25 October, 2020, 09:28:09 pm
15.7k run today, to celebrate a certain londoner's gt win!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 27 October, 2020, 06:20:49 pm
Been going further. Averaged 70KM a week for the last month, weight dipping below 71kg. Will do a 40km run and maybe a 50km run this month. Going over 35km was uneventful. Motivating myself by exploring the Peak District from my front door. Been over Cut Gate, up to Back Tor, over to Margery Stones and High Stones. Planning to make it as far as Bleaklow Stones (where there's a crashed plane) this month. Last night I ran over Ewden Height and looked up at Pike Lowe (the Strava heatmap suggested no clear path, but on the ground there was literally nothing, and light was fading).

I've joined the FRA and LDWA and also joined Dark Peak Fell Runners. All an excuse to buy some more kit. Some pics from the last month. All between Wharncliffe Crags, Derwent and Langsett.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/USFv-a-o1xn6PD17uvKlRBITov_d3sQtZqle4_2oRoHXm9qfD-oezceSsvtRKLRuPfmBGhe1jCYXwUTb3yBAF0z52aUZHONf-KNLQAd1b0vKxNYQVeq4LrdJVpfxDb5BiD7Kan6hDTA=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DDl9aD_K8ltf3jr7xKGrWfFE2BwW0zA2dvYtVbEOWtHwnmup3xnCckBOCmQCgK6sSD4vSluzfnXHfzNfeZWWLHMkai9qrSDrf9I_dAJO6r6XV5kyo7jebvkbYthqRUkTSjUPuGV37bo=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rRrAEZPbo4y3del6eYkuwGMcA6fDdH1ux_IfcaqtkUH280UoBQyuWPKdJfSpsqLP03Jp76ZylFsXjaqsuu_MyQYQbVE5hKP0MuI5ucURrVoAJD1K46JQGR-WOsAGkXpV7DpfVvyEsY=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zpFhShKH8DG3CAqwPVqgSBZVMtDSJ6eAJ8cFs0vNht4zG0A-2_t-6cGbQF-2U6KMXGCMS9ZkuEKFkPa9SlFfJ8T1V-ycRHGIKDuIsJLz-g33kmjsxeM2jYBnwYXhensAaNt2ZcTseRw=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NDPQOArbqSz3vg7WuYfwvM7_KdtY3xpRNwKumEAUlUsa760OVWPaHp5QoWLZFmI9rEHr24qiOCJk87rWhT5l9pu5WxJCMd5kFkg5ispSmO50Zc6Sf79D4pKpJJ-2IuA-BJprsxD9Dw=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dJMV7p8qHNeOxvf6APadYU1lSQXddg6Cc80IQESPW2UAqk4aetpVJtze9ctnhbwa12OGwObnlEx3LQzymjRaSZcYAedqAxp9lH_0zXldMKf_PTOjoAp_eMY1e5AIsS-H3LkovOsgPuU=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jH_5QfoCX6I4gBJifeFQf_QqHOTJsLUUM7gAlFaEarq_hxdU1HMjXhylN5y7UkGPVu_vaEbuL_e5K879AhckhGv77NvoJwhq_W5_HY-Lcn3gLcDt3HBS6JcTtKxwCvPyWYiUTHybdm4=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/h_4wJy7-pfeQSuLd0yBx-oy6FlVgB5nhKCj04a1Wxvx0R2FmRbGCw-_idtx3j5ZyYf3AX2Won2hWM1qem3K_mZ0aJzyS6iM6Ol09KBp_1NCNeIwh4vpJRM2xioL-FdRp7GwsUWDj4AI=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/X-a-zdvF8H16Ds9i5cdO5teuxpAYO9OkfyUe2oh2qY782B-sToh2qw3_pdPQ2AntBGAYiWcAiIyfOIhHS6lusnTg2gQkPVk0cTs9BnoDaV5MYcAAw-asJxBJotwCxckNgC0_T9upTvk=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eU3H2z_PrQnnl1XYITwEc11vgpcYqkEicwaE85ebtyGWAdjTqAAKC4YpkrxQTb2z3neEKxHzp7shR7A6hYCKATdrLW7OVsNoRnAzOGcpLSemCJiAljIGSUHG-pKXfCnswxqqrCbMm2Y=w2400)


This is marvellous to see Dr M!!

I grew up in the white peak, but Bleaklow, Black Hill, Kinder and Mam Tor etc were my childhood ground. Have you moved? Seems a while!

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 28 October, 2020, 01:13:29 pm
4.5 miles this morning at a touch under 8 min/mile.  Happy with that as it was my first run since Sunday when I ran 15 miles - my longest ever and my 4th half-marathon (or longer) run of the year.  Should total nearly 90 miles for October.  In spite of niggles and set-backs along the way I'm really happy with how this year has gone. Several factors that have made it easier:

* running regularly, and lots of "easy" miles, rather than pushing pace or distance too hard. It's helped me minimise injury down-time and the long sessions have helped me get a feeding strategy in place and understand my body better.
* getting the OS maps app and using lockdown to explore more local trails.  Indeed, trails account for 50%+ of my mileage which keeps it way more interesting than pounding the roads.
* refusing the drive anywhere more interesting to go for a run on environmental grounds has forced me to run longer from home.
* getting a Garmin watch has allowed me to monitor longer runs without my phone battery dying and the geek in me has found the available data a brilliant motivator to go out and learn a bit more about the science behind fitness and performance.
* engaging with a friendly running community on Twitter keeps me motivated

Targets for the year slowly getting ticked off, and some might roll into 2021, but I've so far hit:
* sub 24 min 5k (23:39 PB)
* sub 2 hour half m (around 1:58 PB)

Still working on:
* sub 49 min 10k (PB is currently 49:59)
* completing a marathon (as a single run)

Happy running and cycling everyone :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 01 November, 2020, 10:16:44 am
Last run was 5th September (although I have been playing 5-a-side twice a week) but with the pool closing and 5-a-side stopping it's a good enough reason to get back into it.

5km three times a week to begin with, then I'll add a fourth run on a Sunday which will be my long run.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 02 November, 2020, 12:21:56 pm
Spin class cancelled this morning, really have no excuse not to go for a run this afternoon.

It's going to be a bit damp and muddy but that's what trail shoes (and showers) are for.

Let's see just how slow I've become in two months of not running...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 02 November, 2020, 01:40:48 pm
Forgot to post that I did a 54km run the other week in celebration of my mate being 55 the week after - he's done loads of ultras, whereas this is the first time I've gone over 40km. Rolled my ankle at 27km, and given we were coming off Bleaklow, no choice but to tough it out. It's still hugely swollen and black and blue. I regret nothing! Found an ace bothy too - opens on to a waterfall. Plan to do another 50km run out into the Peaks towards the end of the month.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kTj9FCk2YOJEXpU5pQbYl0Nz8py_rVEfXI7lnCnBJiW-UqqEBF23WN9rBtovDhIJ9Bwo9tRdoawmsXYjTH5TfA-kEPMES4_Bjjs1-N2nk2OcLoyS73RmEwoDq5eStiM78gRtvZYdF9I=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0CWGYxbky-F9Yhh0RJFauEbczJiGdHQv_1zjRrsCJdVfi-0nGj5AHnBfiovdF4Sz1TVNNBavx8alnBI-OPcKyNCPb0sWxsvNWRSFB2iAsHI1t-ZTxWqLy8eeXDc80dyea2TZyPtPJAs=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/h1s6QnOPrI_MwerGHY79lRrLrBg4b-sJfK9ter-qR4yL8IImcucoUv-_E9e665Wiw-hfO7gzmXEbEOf0eTgg3K3crr1s0iWXamEzaUz0wyikyIr1ifmi-VFEj-Y5aV8s7VHgZ6uv7IY=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ferT9PCGdZH6JED9n0nelGHlOi46pw3UIEjr_dybjGyn_pmq_v3nl23wm5PDjNHYdeYOi1LLK5gotjx0xvNTRXyzaNkI90m76zsmgfw-W2fLtwndskypLs3JS-LaUVzJDVASJ0-uCLw=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/lOQs91ovBuDFhF8sh3rHtMqrGstjA64LjNBE6eIlTiQs63RZzjr20ZZ6DcUfGx1SX0v0e4runAmGoYCE5zQs3g_WgcpOHJqdFM5gGFLT4wALnkSpvGZUV4ejHYTj2wwUlMXRRBZPmcw=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eyjQZzndU6mH2nAOLBbh3Luw0kaZjjMjDQ9KiSEohMt2rpnXiGGjTTR0lwxnijf_bFmJkQihk2isYVJ7soJ-W87hvlmcOATEBPw_OAmid8tFgcmr5VROGDMlkb21S7QR8JT4hcARJR0=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YxI4JJAhjIjsbz_cadM1OxnAr3PnToNWCZQu_jGWtgRnW2eAwr7QJqnqNgi9cz1blCxUuhWjzTLUAqlYOs4DicC_b7h1adym1OV6UFIehtJ4OFU9Q0UrYWaZ0TYBwj4Je-ruq54N_qI=w2400)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KEG1YUl5P0hbtgbU_P3Spg5mI8i97f8IP1sZLcmF3ethSg1_02xN5oF-J8gAe_7x0puFla_RgnCjOpJ5mf55GK9DQCZFOGEO8gOoHGZz_0JcS9brF8rXgIKZJgNyANycLqLMqavnCs8=w2400)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 02 November, 2020, 01:49:58 pm
Very nice! What was the solution for crossing that river? It looks too far for a jump to the bank, and jumping to the slippery looking rocks seems a bit unwise.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 02 November, 2020, 01:59:46 pm
Falling in further up :thumbsup:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5EDnPcQj1pPhEyLatMYlSoXptgPgJQIf3HXBDUyxHWfZG4MmgNpYcBYF_yKKhVEM7D-dTB3dHKE4pib3pkuuE9B4Tcb1r6LjWPn8umSLNDt-dWVQi28-cEGS8-KgR9Ub-u3o49CCgW8=w2400)

I took the hit and walked through. At that stage, we didn't realise we'd be knee deep in peat soup later on. I went in up to my thighs in one bog. lucky not to lose my shoes - gaiters definitely helped.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 02 November, 2020, 04:09:50 pm
Did I read somewhere about sewing the gaiters on?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 02 November, 2020, 08:11:47 pm
Mine are just the one that go with my Altras. I hear the alpkit ones are good too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 02 November, 2020, 10:24:18 pm
Forgot to post that I did a 54km run the other week in celebration of my mate being 55 the week after - he's done loads of ultras, whereas this is the first time I've gone over 40km. Rolled my ankle at 27km, and given we were coming off Bleaklow, no choice but to tough it out. It's still hugely swollen and black and blue. I regret nothing! Found an ace bothy too - opens on to a waterfall. Plan to do another 50km run out into the Peaks towards the end of the month.

 :thumbsup: applause! Looks beautiful.

I'm toying with the idea of a 50km next year. My enthusiasm for big bike trips is limited with the uncertainty about making travel plans.

Right now, I'm wondering why I get an ache under my right knee. I don't feel it particularly when running, and it might be from falling over a couple of months back, spending too long sat at my desk, or too few in the week runs as easily as running style / distance.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 02 November, 2020, 11:10:10 pm
a (shortened) vaulting pole would come in handy for jumping over those streams. great scenery!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 03 November, 2020, 05:39:43 am
Looks brilliant.  Hopefully the ankle heals quickly.  I've found that I spend the first part of a run on a wet day trying to keep feet dry and, when they inevitably get soaked, spending the rest of it not caring how wet I get if the best foot placements are under water...  Then I wonder why I tried to keep my feet dry for so long?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mrcharly-YHT on 03 November, 2020, 12:47:52 pm
That looks amazing. hope your ankle recovers quickly.

I would really like to be able to do runs like that (even if a lot slower).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 03 November, 2020, 05:16:00 pm
I have dug out my running hat and gloves for tomorrow. 'Feels like' 2ºC forecast for the time I will be going out.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: campagman on 03 November, 2020, 07:14:03 pm
The local jogging club have a 5k route not far from my house. I have ran this 3 times now and my times are improving but I definitely miss other people to run with/against.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 04 November, 2020, 02:37:50 pm
If anyone fancies a run in the Peak District, I'm usually up for bunking off work on a Friday. I live near Langsett Reservoir, which puts the Cut Gate path in easy reach, which then puts a straight run to Derwent, a left turn out to Margery / High Stones / Back Tor, or a right turn to Bleaklow (and on to Kinder) all in reach. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 04 November, 2020, 02:55:50 pm
I live near Langsett Reservoir, which puts the Cut Gate path in easy reach, which then puts a straight run to Derwent, a left turn out to Margery / High Stones / Back Tor, or a right turn to Bleaklow (and on to Kinder) all in reach.

Sounds rubbish. Why don't you move to the middle of a cramped dirty city where you have to drive 5 miles in no less than 30 minutes to get to a patch of grass that is bigger than a football field?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 04 November, 2020, 06:04:43 pm
If anyone fancies a run in the Peak District, I'm usually up for bunking off work on a Friday. I live near Langsett Reservoir, which puts the Cut Gate path in easy reach, which then puts a straight run to Derwent, a left turn out to Margery / High Stones / Back Tor, or a right turn to Bleaklow (and on to Kinder) all in reach.

Likely taker in the spring - it’s been a while since I ran over kinder or bleaklow. Continued work will, I hope, see me able to do some longer runs again. Not sure I’m up for 55km yet mind.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 05 November, 2020, 09:09:10 am
Still got "Classic DOMS" from my first 5k in 2 months on Monday followed by 5-a-side on Tuesday night, but it's waning.

Not sure if I can face going out for a run today (the correct answer is that I'll feel better for having done so).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 05 November, 2020, 11:32:03 am
I live near Langsett Reservoir, which puts the Cut Gate path in easy reach, which then puts a straight run to Derwent, a left turn out to Margery / High Stones / Back Tor, or a right turn to Bleaklow (and on to Kinder) all in reach.

Sounds rubbish. Why don't you move to the middle of a cramped dirty city where you have to drive 5 miles in no less than 30 minutes to get to a patch of grass that is bigger than a football field?

I would, but unless you can get stone cottages with walls 50cm thick for £90k, it's out of my price range.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 05 November, 2020, 11:41:05 am
If anyone fancies a run in the Peak District, I'm usually up for bunking off work on a Friday. I live near Langsett Reservoir, which puts the Cut Gate path in easy reach, which then puts a straight run to Derwent, a left turn out to Margery / High Stones / Back Tor, or a right turn to Bleaklow (and on to Kinder) all in reach.

Likely taker in the spring - it’s been a while since I ran over kinder or bleaklow. Continued work will, I hope, see me able to do some longer runs again. Not sure I’m up for 55km yet mind.

That would be great. I didn't do a 5km until April, and a 10km until May. I've just done about half an hour a day of yoga to try to ward off injuries using the down dog app. Until I rolled my ankle, I've had no problems so far.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Greenbank on 05 November, 2020, 08:36:30 pm
Not sure if I can face going out for a run today (the correct answer is that I'll feel better for having done so).

And indeed I do feel better for having gone for a run.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 06 November, 2020, 04:18:00 pm
I've had a few injuries of late. The finger dislocation back in August still isn't fully healed. That's apparently entirely normal. Then in early September I had a niggle in my ankle that turned into some sort of achilles injury. I think this may have been caused by using both my road shoes and trail shoes too long so they weren't giving the required support and allowing by toes to splay out. I eased of a bit, doing shorter runs (but twice a day), some specific exercises and ball massage for both the leg and foot. 

Although I've been able to do up to 2x 10km for a couple of weeks now, I've only managed to get back up to 15km for a single run in the last week or so. I tried it about 3 weeks ago and it wasn't very nice. Basically, eventually the 'niggle' turns into discomfort which turns into pain. In the last couple of weeks there's no noticeable niggle over a standard 10km. Today I decided to try a long run, undefined distance over 20km. No achilles pain, but big chunks of it felt hard. The pace to 23km was fairly solid (2 hours), but the last 8km to get to 31km was over sand dunes and dune slack, so the pace went to shit a bit. Longest run to date. Cardio-vascular is fine; legs are reasonably ok; feet generally hurt. Hopefully will get 35km in a single run soon. Dogs likely to sleep for the rest of the afternoon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 30 November, 2020, 09:22:42 am
Back in August I signed up for a virtual challenge to run the distance of LEJoG (1420km). The time period allowed was 1 year, which works out at just 4 km per day, and walking could be included (if logged, which I don't). I finished mine last week, which works out as 11.5 km every day since 1st August. I can go back to doing some speed work now!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 16 January, 2021, 05:37:59 pm
I was 48 this week, so planned a run with a mate. Lockdown put paid to that, so I rejigged the route to avoid Derbyshire, and ran out and back to Dovestone Tor on my own. A bit over 51km all in.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/s6-WN20iwnbSXDNlRj28QfJhWpbwRPv7utErWKAo3F5mz1HbvvaD5DT_UHEoaVpMxCDwo2exP69RrkTZAK-8W028nGTTmdCvHAnRLtonQwBvnoMYmmqi3bZRByyyrhFZs2pt7FJRAdI=w2400)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZRkHKqo1ZGh5t0fSnvdQKcIX7Y8IMKbVSjouc_JV7fsNecPTVTA8F0HoZ7b182LjGSxjqGzbIQOSvn6fIb-DJCwilhOCHUQbI1ze2k5PULK6cJJBq8HpqolqFGd3wFK8ljAPnqfOY6g=w2400)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jkW2m8F6Fvg5ijFRDWjzr0zAdtWS48wAoosopNOPpgxYmiNJfWHekpchSNujNyWU20uKVObHwvZuDMkQFTZ0piBONy0rkIf5E87PcQ6BmFtQyJPJwqy7cS3ODa1Oc2yQ1IGao8qQmbY=w2400)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/oUu6q1w2e62E0kEGYT2NW2YZfuqyjOeOHxJg7sj2OdCyc5NPWo4Hb3gMDc3bUoK3btxIEVBjOkYdHBEwGV8qFpAWOXnp-y2fPr58rZuP4pgYZ3iuyC-OreqHjqmqcnKPTgiK8pyGJ84=w2400)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/J9nW3GabKjDhlZpmtxxqFO88oi_L1VL9twwASK9eMHORiGiK0Ad3dSa-tOxETgJEskmvdnMSeL4VTDDhd1Mo3ewt9HFWEV9n-UGEk0Vt7U7EaE95wXdHvhVFMCu9rR1TyJms3APIUyw=w2400)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3imZPq3VMH-J9PPi5xX-ILsIuRaubT3aNbmQldVQb25xroTQS_ScRDi1UifwPvkC2BEDS2RUEro7cHkW_CR7VwDsDHREaMuZdcAXCjWS6w1YsAl01zF0Ew8v9X2MXsACjI_Bf8W-Sas=w2400)

Strava - https://www.strava.com/activities/4625161253
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hot Flatus on 16 January, 2021, 05:43:51 pm
Wow,  Soulfood.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 16 January, 2021, 05:49:25 pm
Yes, got lucky with the weather. Don't think I saw more than 10 people all day, and about half were skiers.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hot Flatus on 16 January, 2021, 05:56:39 pm
A bit jealous

I've started running again this year, after a nasty glute strain in may. I've realised I don't like pavements, or flat straight tracks at all so I bought a grippier pair of trail shoes that are amazing in mud.  I have no fitness issues with distance other than not wanting to overdo it so I'm working up slowly. It takes me a good 15 minutes before things start to flow nicely, which is a bit annoying as my actual runs are limited to abou 20-30 minutes at the moment. Got a 50 minute run tomorrow, which will enable me to head into a long, steep sided hidden valley, thickly forested with a myriad of empty trails, a folly, an unfinished gothic mansion and boating lakes.  The aim is to try and get up to about 13 mile runs in April.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 16 January, 2021, 06:46:00 pm
I started in January last year after a year+ off with a horrible hip flexor injury. I've definitely found that a training peaks PMC / Strava fitness and freshness approach pays dividends in terms of avoiding injury, and paying no attention at all at going fast anywhere other than uphill. Definitely needs more management than cycling for me. Feel the same about pavement or flat stuff.

I wish there was an audax equivalent for running. I've joined a FRA club (Dark Peak), but I'm not sure I'll ever have the dexterity to do what they do. I only got to go once before they stopped club nights, but I hit 186 BPM hanging off the back of the medium group - terrifying lot. Nicky Spinks runs training sessions just up[ the hill from me. I might go along when they restart if I am feeling brave.

Love a folly - you can just make out Boot's Folly in the bottom right - https://peakedinterest.co.uk/2016/05/21/boots-folly/

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tlKwjosBvi3ISEplS5dj5gSS_9swFUVv_twy-hKgZXdcuysTqAYqrjIxiUAxDi_GJSuv17MGXo-2KHvEj8GQ6Zb4LpPLmnf2NSrKRyStRYyJrM9v4H23IOSv4shnHqzHPkPhqRVz7hM=w2400)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: perpetual dan on 16 January, 2021, 11:14:48 pm
That’s lovely. Also, happy birthday!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mattc on 17 January, 2021, 01:19:33 pm
Doc Mekon:
LDWA is the closest to Audax-on-foot. They have flat and hilly events. Some walk them, some run em.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hot Flatus on 17 January, 2021, 01:57:18 pm
Definitely needs more management than cycling for me.

Half the problem is understanding what needs management and how to manage it.  I'd rather not learn through mistakes because the impact is so long lasting. I do a few glute exercises, bit of stretching etc.

Interesting that you talk about only going fast uphill, as I only had this realisation yesterday. I suspect it is the biomechanical action of running fast (longer strides etc) that causes issues so if you want to improve CV fitness and avoid these speed related issues, it means running uphill.   Hence the old steep sided valley  :thumbsup:

Ran round it this morning. It was lovely.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 10 February, 2021, 06:32:32 pm
did a 6k run after 14 week slump/break, fitness is down as expected, heart rate hovered around 180bpm for 4:47 pace (used to run 3:4x last autumn at that heart rate). i would need some serious training again to reach the sub-20 5k, maybe by summer if there's a will.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 12 February, 2021, 05:36:07 pm
did a 6k run after 14 week slump/break, fitness is down as expected, heart rate hovered around 180bpm for 4:47 pace (used to run 3:4x last autumn at that heart rate). i would need some serious training again to reach the sub-20 5k, maybe by summer if there's a will.

In my experience it takes a while for cyclists to 'remember how to run'.  Those people I cycle with generally have the power to weight ratio, VO2 max, and general endurance to post a pretty impressive marathon time - but their running technique isn't so efficient.  Certainly my muscles aren't used to working efficiently in a running motion (e.g tight hamstrings and not fully stretching my stride impacts my speed = stride length x cadence (strides per minute).  It usually takes quite a bit of work on my running before I get up to speed - without any change in my overall fitness. 

I've had 2 years without much running due to arthritic damage to my toes.  Equipped with new orthotics I've taken it up again - but at the moment I'm 30 seconds / km slower than I was then, although my general aerobic fitness, as measured by performances on the Concept II ergo is probably slightly up.  I reckon if I can run regularly (at least once a week) by Easter I'll be going significantly quicker purely because I will have remembered how to run.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 12 March, 2021, 08:59:07 am
Still not going much quicker, but have managed my first half-marathon distance in over two years.  So I'm going to stick it down here on the web to try to make me do it this time.  The goal is to run the Basingstoke Canal, from its start not far from Byfleet and New Haw station all the way back to Festival Place Basingstoke - following towpaths as far as Greywell, where the canal disappears into a collapsed tunnel and then following its course using footpaths, about 60km, hopefully in just under 6 hours.  I've had this as a goal a few times and never done it (other goals or injuries have put paid to it), so wish me luck this year
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: tonyh on 12 March, 2021, 09:04:39 am
Wishing you luck, and pleasure, and likely success!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 12 March, 2021, 11:13:00 am
Good luck.  Do you have a plan to increase your distances and prepare?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 12 March, 2021, 11:42:50 am
This is bad.  Sitting on a Teams meeting but not really taking part so just googled the staffordshire millenium way from Burton to newport, 60km and less than 300ft of ascent.   I am less than 10km from the start.  I am wondering about walk/running it as a fast hike both ways over 2 days unsupported.  It would make a wonderful adventure and even walking is probably doable.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 12 March, 2021, 12:47:21 pm
ran 11km yesterday, after a long break, got a big blister. skin is not used to friction, just like we get sore bums starting riding audaxes after winter's hibernation.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Davef on 12 March, 2021, 12:59:42 pm
Still not going much quicker, but have managed my first half-marathon distance in over two years.  So I'm going to stick it down here on the web to try to make me do it this time.  The goal is to run the Basingstoke Canal, from its start not far from Byfleet and New Haw station all the way back to Festival Place Basingstoke - following towpaths as far as Greywell, where the canal disappears into a collapsed tunnel and then following its course using footpaths, about 60km, hopefully in just under 6 hours.  I've had this as a goal a few times and never done it (other goals or injuries have put paid to it), so wish me luck this year
I would forget about the time aspect when you get to that sort of distance especially on a relatively slow surface. You are looking at the running equivalent of audax.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 12 March, 2021, 10:09:09 pm
Good luck.  Do you have a plan to increase your distances and prepare?

Yes - will be the same approach as I've used before to build up distance - my longest run in my current sequence is 13.5 miles, so I will aim to do 15, 18, 21 in consecutive weeks, ease off for a week or two, and then do 21 and a marathon, mostly on trails from home, then take a two week break and go for it. 

My legs will tell me if its working.  Usually with the plan above, they feel OK up to the previous longest distance and then tighten up.  It's a formula that got me round the Dorset Coast Ultra (70km), Manhood Peninsula (50km around the coast of Selsey cutting across the top using the Chichester Canal) and Dartmoor Winter Crossing (South Brent - Okehampton - 50km in January). 

The main unknown is how my dodgy toes will hold up.  The special inserts in my shoes seem to work well so far.  I plod more, rather than rolling on my toes, but that seems to keep my pace more consistent, although about 20 seconds per kilometre slower than pre-injury. 

Time estimates are less of a goal and more of a planning aid - how much liquid to carry in a Camelbak and the amount of calories to carry in my bumbag. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 12 March, 2021, 10:48:36 pm
Thank you. I was very loosely doing something similar although not got past 25km as yet.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 02 April, 2021, 10:31:36 am
Last week it was 14.3 miles, but felt strong at the end, so tackled by favourite 17 mile route today, but with a new start to reconnoitre a footpath around Blacklands Farm ahead of an attempt at a Round-Basingstoke Trail Run, which made it 18.1 miles.  Did it first thing on a cup of tea (rather than nothing).  Don't know whether it was the tea, the fact that the trails are dry at last, or that this route just has really good fast trails, but was pretty much as fast as I've ever been on this route (despite being at least 15secs/km off the pace all winter).  Result was the fastest average pace on any run I've done since a 5k last June, and my longest run since August 2018. 

So now starting to eye up the 22 mile route south of Basingstoke next Friday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 08 April, 2021, 04:19:31 pm
Good to hear the recovery and return to fitness continues CET.
I ran 10k on the Amazingstoke Canal path last night and also fancy a crack at the full distance.  Need to work on my base miles though as I'm returning from a bust toe and knee problems so I've had three months out.   Currently comfortably running 10k in 53 mins which is reasonable for me, and should be up to stead 13.1 distance at the end of the month.
You're not entering the Hampshire Hoppit in June are you?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 09 April, 2021, 09:37:15 am
Didn't have time to do the 22 mile this morning, so settled for a 17.5 mile exploration run linking Wildmoor, Sherfield-on-Loddon, Little London, Morgaston Wood and along the top of Taylors' Farm Park to Moulshay to stay on trails as much as possible and recce possible bits of the northern section of a round Basingstoke run.  Was really useful as one section wasn't obvious and I had to check the map.  Quite a bit slower than last Friday but the trails were rougher and there were a lot of stiles and gates which become more of a test.  Checked my log and it was the 75th time I've run a half-marathon distance, which really surprised me as I treat running as a bit of fun compared with cycling!

Have just checked out the Hampshire Hoppit - looks like a really good route so I might well give it a go.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 09 April, 2021, 05:53:45 pm
Have entered the Hampshire Hoppit.  I broke a pint glass washing up yesterday so could do with a replacement (the finishing memento is an engraved pint glass).  And it looks like a fun event.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 12 April, 2021, 09:41:05 pm
after a winter slump, then lots of walking in february, i started running again in march - it's only now, after six weeks i started to feel better and 5min/k pace doesn't feel like hard work anymore. will be adding one interval session a week to gradually improve the pace/fitness.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: DrMekon on 16 April, 2021, 01:21:37 pm
Had an injury, and got back into Zwift. Fortunately, as the weather has improved, I've recovered. Bunking off this PM to run out into the peaks.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 16 April, 2021, 02:00:19 pm
Woke up early this morning, so was able to get the 22-mile test piece in.  Had forgotten how tough this is (originally I set this up when training for the Dorset Coast Ultramarathon so wanted as many hills as possible - OK - North Hampshire has its limits, but it was still hilly).  Only started to tie up in the last 2km, which means it was the perfect distance.  The next step will be the around-Basingstoke trail run, probably in two weeks time.  There is no actual event, its just linking up footpaths and bridlepaths around the town which makes a surprisingly good route.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 21 April, 2021, 11:44:56 am
enjoyed still conditions and sunrise through the fog this morning, a welcome change from clear blue skies in the recent weeks.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210421/cc6a06be122a7962ac9ffc08213a8a75.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: P.P. on 27 April, 2021, 06:34:07 pm
Still not going much quicker, but have managed my first half-marathon distance in over two years.  So I'm going to stick it down here on the web to try to make me do it this time.  The goal is to run the Basingstoke Canal, from its start not far from Byfleet and New Haw station all the way back to Festival Place Basingstoke - following towpaths as far as Greywell, where the canal disappears into a collapsed tunnel and then following its course using footpaths, about 60km, hopefully in just under 6 hours.  I've had this as a goal a few times and never done it (other goals or injuries have put paid to it), so wish me luck this year

The Basingstoke Canal makes a good long run. I did it my self from the start back to home in Basingstoke at the end of October last year (blog post here if your interested - https://pperratt.weebly.com/blog/october-31st-2020).

It took me 6:13 for 39 miles in biblical rain. There's an outside tap at the Canal centre at Mytchett, a shop just off the tow path at Fleet and a petrol station with shop at Odiham, all of which are well positioned for topping up your water and limiting what you have to carry.

Most importantly its a great route, easy to follow and a brilliant days running!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 28 April, 2021, 02:41:59 pm
it's good to see how consistent running brings the desired results. when i restarted running, ten weeks ago, my flat-out sustainable pace was 4:47 @ 174bpm av.
nowadays such pace feels like jolly trot, 4:45 @ 152bpm av.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210428/0394f0678dc119ecdc112f0d13ed2f25.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 05 May, 2021, 09:52:06 am
Completed the "Big Way Round" 19 mile trail event round Winchester on Monday.  A decent step up on the longest distance I've ever run before.  Completed in 3 hours 15 minutes - average just over 10 minute miles.  Dead happy with that.  Have been eating ever since but the legs seem ok.  Generally rather tired though.  I was hanging on for the last three miles but ran the lot.  It's clear I need to to a few more > half marathon distance runs before I attempt a half respectable marathon.  Or, just walk a lot  ::-)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 05 May, 2021, 01:35:20 pm
19mi is a looong way, well done, i wouldn't dare such a distance just yet.

i've had my first fast effort this season, managed a 19:27 5k, pretty pleased. no aches or niggles so far, so hopefully can train properly now for my secret sub-18 aspiration.
Title: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 10 May, 2021, 08:02:13 am
half marathon yesterday at a steady 5min pace, it was a bit hot at noon. sore calves today, joints and tendons seem fine.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210510/74d9156545fb6678ae5f8439909f8ab3.jpg)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 19 May, 2021, 10:07:23 am
Well done Zigzag, that's a decent time for a half.  My PB is around 1 hr 58 so I'd be well chuffed if I did it at your speed.

Completed another long trail run last Sat - 18 miles in just over 3 hours - through Kingsclere and across the top of Watership down, past Ladle Hill and down toward the A34, and back home.  Legs were a bit tight but have done a couple of shorter runs since and all seems good.
Like CrazyEnglishTriathlete, I have now entered the Hampshire Hoppit trail marathon in June.  Tough one for a first marathon, and I'll definitely be walking the hill shortly before the finish.  I tried running up it after 5 miles of my run last Sat and it's definitely walking territory for me.   Planning to run a half-m training run this weekend to round off about 27 miles for the week hopefully.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 12 June, 2021, 07:05:39 pm
Final training run before the Hoppit today, used my favourite 17-mile route to Five Lanes End and up on to Weston Common - effectively doing a circuit around Humbly Grove, but extended it to 30km by traversing from Tunworth to Black Dam via Hackwood Park.  Legs were getting tight at the end but managed it under 5min/km - so hopefully next week will go well.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 16 June, 2021, 08:03:45 am
out the door at 5am to avoid heat, but it was still too warm for running. i think i'll postpone running to early autumn, or whenever the temperature drops to a more comfortable 10-15'c.

half marathon at maf pace today.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 17 June, 2021, 10:49:13 am
Work project that would have required weekend working has delayed - so it's all on for the Hampshire Hoppit Marathon at the weekend.  13 - 17 degrees and showers, so much more civilised than it could have been.  Will be my first marathon since August 2018 - having developed some foot problems the subsequent winter.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: zigzag on 18 June, 2021, 09:03:23 pm
Work project that would have required weekend working has delayed - so it's all on for the Hampshire Hoppit Marathon at the weekend.  13 - 17 degrees and showers, so much more civilised than it could have been.  Will be my first marathon since August 2018 - having developed some foot problems the subsequent winter.

best of luck on sunday, looks like a fun event - i've missed racing in a mass event!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 20 June, 2021, 09:43:25 pm
really enjoyed the Hampshire Hoppit Marathon today.  The only disappointment was the fog in the early stages that limited the views, but it did keep the temperatures sensible all the way through.  Having studied the route, realised that 2/3 of the climbing was in the second half and so paced myself accordingly.  It didn't stop the endless hills up to Hannington sapping my strength before the final kick up Watership Down, but ended up pretty much exactly on my target time.

The reusable plastic collapsible cups were great - cut down hugely on waste.  Signposting and marshalling were clear and there was lots of encouragement along the route.  More than anything else, it was good to do a big organised event again, having not done anything other than the club organised hill climb since 2019.  That makes marathon #14, but the first one for three years - all thanks to the special inserts that reduce the pounding on my damaged toes.  I think it will be less than three years to the next marathon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 21 June, 2021, 11:57:32 am
Another one who enjoyed the Hampshire Hoppit marathon and I agree on CET's points.  Great organisation and route.  And the last 5 miles were hilly torture.  Garmin reckoned I ran 26.6 (and I use the word "ran" loosely  ::-) )  Finished in 4:54 which was ahead of my expectations.  First marathon in the bag.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 21 June, 2021, 09:06:17 pm
Another one who enjoyed the Hampshire Hoppit marathon and I agree on CET's points.  Great organisation and route.  And the last 5 miles were hilly torture.  Garmin reckoned I ran 26.6 (and I use the word "ran" loosely  ::-) )  Finished in 4:54 which was ahead of my expectations.  First marathon in the bag.

Well done.  I've had the benefit of a few more in the past - the Clarendon Marathon - which goes from Salisbury to Winchester - has less hills, so you might find that a good one.  However, when I ran it, I got caught up with the faster starts in the half-marathon wanting to get past me at about 14 miles, which did my legs in.  I've done a couple in Sussex - the Sussex Coast and the Beach Head - both of which take in Beachy Head and Seven Sisters and are a bit harder than the Hoppit. 

On the Hoppit, the overlap worked alright for me, I was overtaking slower half-marathon runners.  Although my heart sank when I realised I didn't go the same way up the final hill as they did.  I used MapMyRun, which told me I ran 42.2km so not far off.  I set it so it gives me a voice pace every kilometre, which I can use as an indicator of pace (am I going too hard).   My splits (1:44 for the first half, 2:01 for the second) might have suggested I did go off too hard, but there was a lot more climbing in the second half, and my hamstrings always tighten up and slow me down towards the end, so on reflection I probably got it just right (for a change). 

Will probably do another trail marathon before the year is out, but the focus now will be on the bike - as I'm going to have a go at inaugurating my Just off to Whitchurch perm in September 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 03 July, 2021, 07:10:51 pm
Racing has pretty much only just returned in Wales, as the limit to 30 people outside was only release a few weeks ago. There aren't a lot of events happening near me, so although I'd hoped to ease back in with some nice 5 km trails, my first race today was a 9.5km fell AS category fell race (A category is the steepest category - minimum 50m incline per km). The actual climb was 700m, and I was fairly pleased with my uphill section. Unfortunately, I'm a terrible descender, particularly on rock, so I wasn't very much faster downhill than up. It was also completely pea soup at the top, so I made some very poor route choices, not knowing the course. Totally knackered. Very much Type 2 fun.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Hot Flatus on 03 July, 2021, 08:13:49 pm
Just managed to start running again after stopping in early March. Did 2 mile, 3 mile testers last weekend, then a flattish 6 miler on thursday and a hilly 8 mile trail run today. Had to ask my beloved to untie my shoes after but have spent the afternoon rehydrating with beer and feel great now  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 10 July, 2021, 02:11:17 pm
Another fell race this weekend. Today's was an AM race - A rated ascent (750m) and medium distance at 13km. That was seriously hard. A fair amount was truly runnable (fitness allowing!), but we just seemed to be going uphill for about 65% of the race (the finish was 800m of 20% descent on bracken followed by 1km of 25% descent on tarmac). I think that's the first time I've ever had a race where I've been in sight of the finish and not been sure I'd be able to run to it.  There's something weird about running down steep hills and finding that when it flattens out that your legs have turned jelly and won't operate properly. I ended up in a bog up to my knees, but I think about 25% of the field did that too.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 26 July, 2021, 10:57:53 am
After being drafted in to cover a COVID case as a substitute team-mate for Endure 24 Reading this weekend, the whole team withdrew after another buddy got "pinged" and had to self-isolate, and two more reported injury niggles.  That left just two of us and a crappy weather forecast.  The event organiser (rightly) wouldn't allow deferral to next year at such short notice so I found myself with the weekend free and reasonable fitness and instead I ran (ran/walked) the 33.5 miles of the Basingstoke Canal instead in 6 hours 43 mins. Slower than I wanted but it was warm and I lost 10 minutes on a detour to a shop for some supplies.  Train back to Basingstoke at the end from West Byfleet to round off an excellent afternoon's adventure.  Legs a bit stiff and tired but seem pretty ship shape which is excellent news. 

I seem to recall CrazyEnglishTriathlete ran the canal a few years back in...5ish hours?  Quicker than me I know that!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 28 July, 2021, 10:34:52 pm
I've been planning to run the Basingstoke Canal but have never got around to it.  Ran the Hoppit instead.  5 hours would be my target time, but its really hard to guess what it will be like.  I'd be interested to know how you dealt with the constant flat - as opposed to rolling terrain that gives a change of pace.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 29 July, 2021, 10:23:20 pm
I managed the constant flat by being crap enough to need to run/walk the last 20 miles so the change of stride/pace gave some variety to the legs. I ran the first half marathon, then had a decent feed as I walked (some solid food because Tailwind and gels get sickly after a bit). After that I walked a chunk of each mile, and by halfway I’d settled into a run half a mile/walk half a mile routine which I kept up to the end.

The first couple of miles from Pennybridge do undulate a fair bit. There is a permissive towpath along that first section which isn’t shown on the OS map although it does dive off across some fields for a short distance. From Up Nately it is mostly stony towpath for the next 10-15 miles.  As it progresses you get more tarmac sections (Woking onward). The flight of locks at Deepcut gives some respite as there is a small drop after each lock. Despite the limited variety in elevation, the scenery changes enough to keep it interesting.  I thought the flat would kill the legs but I recovered really well and was back out for a five mile trail run three days later.

If you’re planning a decent time I suggest a recce from Pennybridge to Up Nately is worth while before hand. Otherwise it’s a navigational doddle. Good luck!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 03 August, 2021, 12:06:44 pm
I'm planning to run it uphill!

The Greywell section back is local routes for me so have navigated them before.  Psychologically it might be hard running around Bellevue Road rather than the shorter Crown Lane.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 20 November, 2021, 08:49:22 am
I've only gone and entered a half marathon, cambridge, next march so plenty of time to prep.

This week, 7km at my previous HM PB pace left me absolutely smashed, I might have held it for another 3km possibly. Last night 8k at a steadier 5:30 per km. Lots of work to do, but I'll definitely get round as long as my feet hold up.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 23 November, 2021, 02:57:43 pm
This thread seems to have somewhat merged with Beardy's running log so I'm never sure where to post...

Since last time, I completed the 38 mile Downslink Ultra in October and am now in training for the Country 2 Capital 43 mile ultra in early January.  At some point this summer I also broke my half-marathon PB which now stands at 1:52 and a bit.  Happy to still be hitting new targets in my early 50's :thumbsup:  Not much cycling being done though :facepalm:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 04 March, 2022, 08:45:09 am
Posting here as Beardy's log is more about getting to 5k and my focus is getting to 50k.  Was planning to start running on 1 Feb, but Covid isolation and an Audax event got in the way, so only started last Thursday.  I'm normally cautious after starting back from a break, but risked a 12.5k (7.5 mile) muddy bash in awful weather on 24th Feb and followed in up with a 14.5k (9 mile) not quite so muddy but much darker run based on the 12.5k with an extension on Monday.  Woke up really early (stress has its benefits) this morning and decided to give my easier half-marathon route in the dark.  Got round fine, and the comforting fact was that on the lit/tarmac bits my speed wasn't too far down on last year, where I've been going really slow is navigating boggy ground by head torch.  The next step up will be my 29k route, but not quite sure when I will be able to slot that in.  Looking forward to running (a) in the daylight and (b) on ground which is not a quagmire.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 05 March, 2022, 11:53:54 am
Hampshire Hoppit entered as I enjoyed it so much last year.  So that's two trail marathons entered now, the Beachy Head being the other one.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 05 March, 2022, 07:11:45 pm
Cambridge half tomorrow, it might not be pretty, but I know I've done enough to get me round.  Went up to 14km in training and general fitness should do the rest.  With the current home/caresr/ local authority situation, getting the longer runs in has been tricky
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 07 March, 2022, 06:16:53 am
Cambridge Half Marathon yesterday, plan was for 1:50-1:55 target, decided to follow the 1:45 pacemaker from the gun, stayed with him for about 5-6km and then dropped back a bit, good push in the last 4km and I came in with a chip time  of 1:46:39, previous PB was 1:42:24 in 2011 so I've lost about 20s per year.

Achilles not too bad today, I wonder if I'll feel it tomorrow.

That late effort played havoc with my blood sugar though, adrenaline is not always your friend
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Polar Bear on 07 March, 2022, 08:40:13 am
Nice one Dave.  👍

I might even put Cambridge Half into my plan for next March if it happens again.  I'll be way back in your wake but that is not really the point.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: ElyDave on 07 March, 2022, 08:08:57 pm
Thanks PB, yesterday was not a bad day for it nice and cool, but could equally be typical early march wind and rain.

How do you typically run races these days, is your vision good enough to run solo, or do you use a guide?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 16 March, 2022, 09:27:41 am
Discovered today that running on glutinous mud in the dark 4 days after a very hilly 300k was not conducive to a good performance.  But I got out, got the legs working, and that should allow me to have a go at my 17-mile standard route next week.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 23 March, 2022, 10:18:56 pm
Didn't have the time to do 17 miles today, settled for 10, but the pace was much higher.  It's a lot easier running in daylight and not in quagmires.  Hope to do a half marathon on Saturday morning, exploring the Wey and Basingstoke canals.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 27 March, 2022, 02:04:44 pm
Did the planned half-marathon yesterday, before breakfast on my training course.  Made so much different running (a) in daylight and (b) on firm paths rather than bog, quagmire and slippery mud.  When I turned onto the Basingstoke canal after 15km there was another runner (who'd just run to the canal junction) about 50m ahead going just my pace, so I managed to keep my pace up in the difficult kilometres and managed to beat my target time by 5 min (and my previous half this year by 17 min).  Chuffed.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 16 April, 2022, 08:55:27 am
14.5 miles yesterday before breakfast on our holiday in Basel   I know the roads here from work trips but did take a couple of minutes to tour Burgruine Dorneck.   Forgot how tough the 400m of descent is and how much impact it has on the hamstrings 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 22 April, 2022, 08:32:04 pm
Plan to tick off one on my bucket list tomorrow - running around Basingstoke on trails.  I shouldn't really double my distance, but it's hard to find slots for long runs, and I've got a gap in the Audax season, and also the ground will be bone dry at the moment but the grass and nettles won't have grown up to obscure the trails.  Have used Ridewithgps as trails can be plotted using the draw lines function.

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/39163021

30 miles - aiming for between 4:30 and 5:00 hours.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 23 April, 2022, 02:25:06 pm
4:38.  I have colleagues who travel to European cities (and further) to run half-marathons and marathons.  I think they are missing out - 25 miles of trails and 5 miles of quiet roads, lots of those trails either singletrack between hedges or paths alongside woods.  Plenty of wildlife - roe deer and muntjac, rabbits by the buzzard-load, and a couple of hares, one not quite able to hide in the growing wheat, super views from the top of Farleigh Hill, and a complete circumnavigation of Amazingstoke without ever making contact with the town itself, except for a short out and back to home.

I did miss the long prep run, the legs got progressively tighter, sooner than I would have liked, but found a good plodding pace for the last 10km (which is probably the easiest of the route), but its in the book, and will now look at running the Basingstoke Canal from Byleet back to Basingstoke (following the course as best as possible after Greywell).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: tom_e on 23 April, 2022, 06:19:49 pm
Very impressive. 

I know what you mean about the city marathons.  I don't find my legs can take a lot of running, but I really enjoy the fun of covering ground off road - it feels so simple and free.  The idea of pounding tarmac for 26 miles couldn't be less appealing!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 30 April, 2022, 08:25:11 pm
Had time for a half marathon early this morning, golden sunrise, green grass, blue and white flowers, it was like running through the winner of the landscape photograph of the year.  Was a bit slower than I should have been but I think I’m still recovering from last week
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 29 July, 2022, 06:15:11 pm
Keeping this thread distinct from the Cto5k log, for those discussing longer runs.  Having stopped running in May to focus on completing my first post-lockdown Audax SR series, realised that the Beachy Head Marathon is starting to approach and needed to get some miles in.  Also, am going to the trail running Mecca that is Madeira in a couple of weeks time.

Historically I've built up my running distances steadily, running once a week and gradually progressing upwards in distance to the marathon point.  However, this spring I got to the half-marathon distance in three steps and have decided to do much the same again.  Ran 5 miles on trails round the back of the Basingstoke incinerator on Monday and did almost 11 this morning, with an eclectic mix of trails in the Loddon and Lyde valleys today - taking advantage of bone dry ground and better knowledge of what country footpaths go where. Hamstrings are tight, but not unnecessarily so, therefore the experiment seems to work and I should be set for my favourite half-marathon route next Friday
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 08 August, 2022, 03:51:49 pm
4 laps of the Cliveden Estate on the opposite side of the Thames from Cookham this morning. 9 short steep climbs in a half-marathon.  Made my understand why I struggled on the Beachy Head Marathon a few years ago - find it hard to get back into a good pace after a hard climb, and so gradually slowed down.  Now I know that's an issue, will head out to Watership Down area for some routes to practice on similar terrain.  Need 9 more half-marathon distances to get to the 100. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 14 August, 2022, 02:28:41 pm
One of the members of my longer weekend run group is training for a marathon, so we are currently ramping up our long runs with them. Today was 15 miles, with 1000m climbing. The heat really made a big difference, especially for the hills. I had wobbly legs and lungs pretty early on as all the hills were in the first half. Once we got on to the flatter section it was a bit easier. I hope next week is less hot!
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 17 September, 2022, 05:02:43 pm
10 miles along the canal today.  I am definitely carrying too much weight at the moment
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 20 September, 2022, 11:11:25 am
4 laps of the Cliveden Estate on the opposite side of the Thames from Cookham this morning. 9 short steep climbs in a half-marathon.  Made my understand why I struggled on the Beachy Head Marathon a few years ago - find it hard to get back into a good pace after a hard climb, and so gradually slowed down.  Now I know that's an issue, will head out to Watership Down area for some routes to practice on similar terrain.  Need 9 more half-marathon distances to get to the 100.

Sounds like you've had some great runs CET :thumbsup:  Watership Down is my reasonably local hill training spot as you can handily run loops there to get in some vert.  I'll need that, as I've entered Wendover Woods 50 (mile) in November which has 10000' of ascent.

I completed my first 50 miler, the https://www.centurionrunning.com/races/chiltern-wonderland-50-2022 (https://www.centurionrunning.com/races/chiltern-wonderland-50-2022) on Saturday evening, near the back of the pack of those who finished within the cut-off time.  The weather was perfect (although the 08:30 start was very chilly).  Legs are in reasonable shape and I'm looking forward to getting back into training harder again shortly.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 20 September, 2022, 11:15:20 am
congratulations

Are you going to go for a 100mile belt?
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 21 September, 2022, 07:04:27 pm
100k on Monday cycling then weights yesterday and another 5k tonight.  Very slow even for me as the legs felt very heavy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 23 September, 2022, 02:45:05 pm
A lurgy (common cold, but has the same impact as usual - no training for a week or so), plus other things have got in the way of dedicated training for the Beachy Head Marathon, but did manage a half around the streets of Basingstoke this morning.  Was asked about injuries given the fact that I do a fair few long runs, I think keeping my mileage low and having most of my aerobic training on the bike helps - I only run once a week at most - this was my 9th half-marathon or further this year and my total running distance for the year is 210 miles. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: toontra on 23 September, 2022, 04:02:03 pm
Quality rather than quantity for me too.  One long (15k) run a week and maybe one shorter but faster.  I've learned from experience that trying to fit in 3 longish runs a week on top of cycle training leads to injuries.

Luckilly, I find most running-related injuries (ITB, achilles, shin splints, ankles) can be ridden through, so they compliment each other well.  If I'm not able to run I can still get stuff done on the bike. The only time I've had to stop cycling in recent years was a torn hamstring (as a result of some comedy sprinting  ::-)).
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 26 September, 2022, 04:19:53 pm
congratulations

Are you going to go for a 100mile belt?

Thanks!

The sensible person in me says "Hell no" but somewhere in the back of my mind I know I'm thinking "one day".  The Chiltern Wonderland was my first 50, and I'm aiming to consolidate with the "Slam" of 4 Centurion 50 milers next year (South Downs, North Downs, Chilterns Wonderland, and Wendover Woods), and then if I survive those and retain fitness I'll look to extend - more likely into multi-day ultras rather than 100 milers...but at my pace a 100 miler *is* a multiday anyway ;D
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 09 October, 2022, 11:40:40 am
Just back from my second ever 10k race and the first for about 12 years.  Paced a perfect negative split to come in at 59:26 for the 10km.  Really enjoyed it actually and can see myself doing some more.  Iran/walked to 4k to the start line and back again as well although coming back was much harder.
https://strava.app.link/wewTOgsZYtb (https://strava.app.link/wewTOgsZYtb)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 12 October, 2022, 09:57:34 am
Just back from my second ever 10k race and the first for about 12 years.  Paced a perfect negative split to come in at 59:26 for the 10km.  Really enjoyed it actually and can see myself doing some more.  Iran/walked to 4k to the start line and back again as well although coming back was much harder.
https://strava.app.link/wewTOgsZYtb (https://strava.app.link/wewTOgsZYtb)

Congratulations!  Solid time that and more importantly you enjoyed it  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 22 October, 2022, 09:58:55 pm
Got round the Beachy Head today.  A bit warm for trail running, but it was well organised and the support around the course was brilliant.  Was 13 minutes slower than 8 years ago, but I was training for an ultra then, and most people said it was hard this year.  There probably weren't many runners ahead of me in my 85kg+ weight category.  The medal is quite nice, a depiction of the lighthouse shining out over the Seven Sisters.  There can't be many most scenic marathons in the UK.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 15 November, 2022, 04:43:55 pm
Well done at Beachy Head CET, that's a tough course.

I completed my second 50 miler (52 as it happens :o) at Wendover Woods on Saturday after more than fourteen and a half hours, including 7 by head torch.  The legs are still battered as the course had over 10000' of climbing and descent.  The DOMS in my quads is easing off but one calf is a touch grumpy and the other ankle has uncomfortable tendons.  I've managed a couple of 2 mile walks with the dogs but no running for a week or more I expect which means I can get back out on the mountain bike, and then build up to try and beat my half-marathon PB before the end of the year.  I managed to knock 3 minutes off my (not particularly brilliant) 10k PB a few weeks ago which pleased me immensely.

No more races booked until March (a 50k) followed by 4 x 50 milers from April to September.  If I'm feeling lucky in the new year I might enter a 100 miler in October 2023 as I should be pretty fit after all the 50s I hope.  Not sure about a 100 but I guess you never know if you can do it until you give it a go....
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Jasmine on 20 November, 2022, 02:14:15 pm
I did my first ultra yesterday - Pen Llyn Winter. Previous furthest run was 36km, so I knew it was a fair stretch up to 60km. Surprisingly, it was enjoyable for most of the run. I was still in good shape at 35km. I lost a lot of time in the 38-44km section as it's a technical descent to the beach and then a hard ascent to 400m above sea level. That was less enjoyable. Fortunately the last 15km is mostly downhill on the road so I was able to wobble home reasonably quickly. I just about made it back in the daylight, a fraction under 7 hours.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 20 November, 2022, 02:29:18 pm
Congratulations to CET, Quisling and Jasmine.  Really aspirational and I have no idea how you manage running and riding to high standards.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 21 November, 2022, 10:48:15 am
Congrats on your ultra Jasmine, that's a decent time for any 60k let alone a trail event.

My post-Wendover 50 legs are recovering.  Knocked out 16 miles on the MTB yesterday after walking the dogs.  My cycling legs are well out of form.  Mostly ship-shape now, with just a little grumping remaining from the tendons in one ankle.  Hopefully do an easy 5k tonight or tomorrow and see what effect that has before returning to harder training.

In other news, I've entered a 100 miler next October :facepalm: 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 21 November, 2022, 04:24:24 pm
I've been getting back into running lately - upping it from the once-a-week parkrun to an extra two or three lunchtime runs - easy when we've got decent changing facilities at the office, and there are some nice local routes (current favourite is an 8km loop round Hackney Marshes).

Really enjoying it - but it's leaving me with lots of aches and pains. I'm very out of condition.

Would love to do an ultra one day but I'm a long way off ready for that. Well done all of you.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: felstedrider on 21 November, 2022, 04:51:58 pm
Having built up to 10k last Winter and then getting injured I have been back at it since late Summer.

I was within 10s of my Parkrun PB a couple of weeks ago and am close to my 10k PB.   I completed my first 10 miler last weekend and have a Half Marathon this weekend.   I am still getting my fair share of aches and pains but switching from a lifetime of cycling was always going to be hard.   I can't see myself ever doing the same hours I can do on a bike.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: citoyen on 21 November, 2022, 05:21:48 pm
I’m currently 7 minutes away from my parkrun pb - but I was 10 years younger and 14kg lighter when I set that…
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 25 November, 2022, 04:21:42 pm
Well done Jasmine and Quisling.  Motivation for my next long run.  Hopefully will have a go at the Basingstoke Canal in the spring, probably just before the clocks go back when the mornings are getting light.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: P.P. on 25 November, 2022, 10:27:01 pm
Hopefully will have a go at the Basingstoke Canal in the spring, probably just before the clocks go back when the mornings are getting light.

It's a good run, with a few shops and plenty of bail out opportunities if you need it along the way.

I've run it as an ultra a couple of times and in my limited opinion, it's a more interesting route starting at the Woking end and heading towards Basingstoke, (it gets a bit built up at the woking end). But, there's more train stations and shops etc if you need them going the other way. There's also a water tap at the canal centre (Mychett?) Which is quite handy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 26 November, 2022, 06:14:40 am
Hopefully will have a go at the Basingstoke Canal in the spring, probably just before the clocks go back when the mornings are getting light.

It's a good run, with a few shops and plenty of bail out opportunities if you need it along the way.

I've run it as an ultra a couple of times and in my limited opinion, it's a more interesting route starting at the Woking end and heading towards Basingstoke, (it gets a bit built up at the woking end). But, there's more train stations and shops etc if you need them going the other way. There's also a water tap at the canal centre (Mychett?) Which is quite handy.

That's the way I intend to run it, as it is running 'home'.  I'll get the train from Basingstoke to West Byfleet and then run back.  I will do the full course of the canal, ending up in Festival Place, which is where the original canal head was.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: felstedrider on 27 November, 2022, 02:41:56 pm
1:50:54 at the Olympic Park Half this morning.  A bit wet and lots of people.  A really convoluted route took us into lots of places around the park that I hadn’t seen.  A mile of it was round the road circuit by the velodrome, which is not flat.

Pretty pleased with that.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 17 December, 2022, 05:15:22 pm
Ran my 17-mile test piece today, to take advantage of the last of the frozen ground, following a half-marathon down the Loddon valley the weekend before.  Definitely wasn't on a fast day but lumbered around 15-minutes slower than usual for 98th lifetime half-marathon distance.  There's a temptation to aim for numbers 99 and 100 before the year end but will play it by ear.

The nice bit was finding the path from Reeds Fm to Weston Corbett to add another trail section and eliminate the one bit of out-and-back on the route.

With PBP qualifying coming up, running will take a back seat soon, so if I am to have a go at the Basingstoke Canal it will have to be before Easter, perhaps if there is a cold snap in February to dry up the mud.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 03 January, 2023, 05:04:09 pm
Didn't get around to running over Christmas - got a few tidy cycle rides in instead.  Took the opportunity of a slow start and working at home courtesy of RMT to fit in a trail run in the fading light.  12.5km in the Loddon Valley, proper sloppy conditions with one section in the River Lyde rather than beside it.  Haven't had as much fun running in ages.  I think putting up 5kg overweight actually helped keep me upright.  Tackling the tail end of my working day with a big grin on my face.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 11 January, 2023, 08:25:01 pm
Took the opportunity of working away (in Huntingdon) to fit in a half-marathon before work this morning.  Plotted an easy to navigate out and back route (avoiding the temptation to run along the Great Ouse as, given recent rainfall that might have involved some running in the Great Ouse, and was blessed by a 2/3 waning moon that was bright enough to cast shadows.  One more to go to reach a 100 halves. 
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 18 January, 2023, 09:46:16 am
Thought I would take advantage of frozen ground for a trail run today, but it turned out that the most saturated parts of the trails were only half-frozen, making it hard work (and always the risk of getting ice-scrapes from putting a foot on an icy puddle which doesn't hold my weight.  Changed my route part-way round to try to find better trails.  Was still better off than cycling though, lots of icy patches on untreated roads.  Hopefully 8.5 miles today will keep the running fitness going for when it gets lighter and the ground is more trustworthy.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 29 January, 2023, 06:00:10 pm
Set off down the Loddon Valley today battling gloopy ground.  Tried out the trail from Daneshill School to Heckfield.  It didn't look like it got much traffic, but the route was clear all the way, so that opens up a new area for exploration.  Was running out of time for a full exploration, so took a short cut on the way back.  Still came to 15 miles, so that's the 100th half-marathon+ distance run.  :smug: :smug: :smug: :smug:
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 29 January, 2023, 06:52:41 pm
very steady 11 miles here.  Still using run / walk, but up to 8:2 which gives loads of time to recover.  I got to 90 minutes with no issues, comfortably in zone 2 as per the plan, but then something went awry and my heart rate shot up by 20 and the last half an hour was pretty tough.

It might have been dehydration?  I had jelly babies which I was scoffing a couple of every 'walk', but had no liquid to go with them.  I dont think I've been for a pee in the 7 hours since I got back either...  I'll be shopping for a camelback tonight!

Just being able to go out and do the distance seems nuts - my legs are a bit tired nothing actually hurts... I've only been running again about 5 months and was struggling to do 20 minutes, half run half walk.  Makes the August ironman plan feel a bit more achievable.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 31 January, 2023, 04:46:48 pm
Sounds like you've all been busy, and well done CET on getting to 100 half-marathons.  I'm probably nowhere near that but gave up counting a while ago.  I did a nice nearly 20 mile route through Kingsclere, Watership Down, Burghclere and looping home over the weekend.  Averaging about 33 miles per week at the moment, getting ready for my first 50k through the Chilterns in March.  Looking forward to that.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 06 February, 2023, 04:00:21 pm
So about a month back a newish friend casually asked if id like to do one of those charity 24 challenges. This one being 100km in 24 hours

Whilst I haven't committed yet it has taken my interest and motivated me to start running again in the dark evenings (I'm not expecting to run the whole thing) I had been running during the deep dark days of lockdown 1 and have run on and off over the years.

Really pleased how it's come back to me. Did 14km on Saturday at around 5:30 km splits and felt really good

Mid weeks fairly limited by running in dark but planning a shorter midweek and then longer runs on Saturdays although will mean like last time trained for a charity ride early starts so as not to impact on family life too much
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 10 February, 2023, 09:10:28 am
Repeated my Huntingdon run this morning - substantially faster (a) no navigation errors, (b) a lot drier, (c) nicely frozen ground with a good crunch to it, (d) motivated by going faster and aimed for a time - so the last 4k were the fastest 4k of the route.  Starts off a second century of halfs.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 11 February, 2023, 11:54:45 am
Insominic run today as lots to do. Out the door before 0630 for a slow run as very much building distance over speed. Mild but grey unlike yesterday's beautiful sunrise. Walking an slight incline a few km in and got over taken by another runner who annoyingly was just a bit slower then me once I'd started running again so eventually had to pass and thankfully they went a different way as I headed off into the country lanes which were blissfully quiet, I'd actually clipped on a rear light but probably didn't need it.

Surprised by how muddy the tow path I went on was as been fairly dry so that slowed me to a walk for a fair bit as too slippy to run much but emerged from that and turned for home with a quick stop to dig some artichokes for other allotment holders to help themselves to as far too many for us to get through

The last 5km from the allotment felt hard as had cooled slightly but ended up with pretty much bang on a half marathon (wasn't planned had aimed for 20km) in 2:15

Still home by 9am to start trying to get family moving
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 11 February, 2023, 12:52:55 pm
Insominic run today as lots to do. Out the door before 0630 for a slow run as very much building distance over speed. Mild but grey unlike yesterday's beautiful sunrise. Walking an slight incline a few km in and got over taken by another runner who annoyingly was just a bit slower then me once I'd started running again so eventually had to pass and thankfully they went a different way as I headed off into the country lanes which were blissfully quiet, I'd actually clipped on a rear light but probably didn't need it.

Surprised by how muddy the tow path I went on was as been fairly dry so that slowed me to a walk for a fair bit as too slippy to run much but emerged from that and turned for home with a quick stop to dig some artichokes for other allotment holders to help themselves to as far too many for us to get through

The last 5km from the allotment felt hard as had cooled slightly but ended up with pretty much bang on a half marathon (wasn't planned had aimed for 20km) in 2:15

Still home by 9am to start trying to get family moving

Always good to stop at the allotment on a run - ours are only 1/4 mile away which helps.

As for artichokes (Jerusalem) - I have far too many and, while they have only the conventional effect on my metabolism - Sue finds they give her quite nasty stomach cramps. Consequently, we eat far fewer than we grow. And, as many will know, once they’re in they tend to come back year after year whether you want them or not!

Sounds like a nice morning out
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 16 February, 2023, 06:47:50 am
Another 10km last night, had gone out expecting it to have cooled off as had previous evenings this week but didn't so was blooming warm. Seem to have settled into a pace of around 5:40 per km which I know isn't fast but seems to be one I settle into and can just trot along at which as training for a big run is what I need.

Did have another moment of a quick dash with phone in hand as stopped to walk last bit and was on 9.89km so had to make up to the 10. Reckon can add a few other estates but starting to reach the limit of distance I can actually fit in by doing a lap of my town
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 18 February, 2023, 03:26:57 pm
A mostly cross country 20ish km this morning. Was really mild but windy which did make some parts a slog. Found it hard and felt like walked more but was actually faster then last week over 20km despite having stopped for a few photos.

Best bit was finishing at my mums where kids had been for a sleepover so got fed breakfast, although the youngest donned my running backpack leaving me her overnight bag rucksack and decided we would run home which was just what my stiff legs wanted
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 13 March, 2023, 02:57:09 pm
The trails have certainly got very wet over the last week.

Went out Friday evening for a solo half-marathon the road, but the light of my headtorch.  Started quick to warm up as it was just about 0C, and then kept going.  Smashed my personal best HM time by over 6 minutes so now down to 1:46:07.  Not quite the 1:45 I'd like but substantial improvement on my previous >1:52.  It was a stupid think to do as I have a 50k trail race next Sat and the legs are feeling it a bit, but should be recovered.  Looks like it's going to be a slippy race next weekend.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 13 March, 2023, 04:18:57 pm
Well I've kept up the running. Bit over 100km in February and already at 70 for March. Slightly peeved as  when got home found out was 20 seconds over an 2 hour half although really just building distance for a 100km run/jog/walk/crawl in June

Getting a bit bored with route plans especially now off road is wet making it harder to find safe routes without repeating a lot of roads. Have planned one for around 30km Saturday with just a few bits off off road to bypass country lanes which are unfortunately driven on too fast.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 19 March, 2023, 09:23:03 am
Canal towpaths today - Woking to the Thames and back for a tidy half.  Quicker than any half since this time last year, on a similar route.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Quisling on 21 March, 2023, 10:43:38 am
Sounds like everyone is progressing well and having some decent runs  :thumbsup:

I completed the Hundred Hills 50k in the Chilterns on Saturday in 6hrs 50 which was top end of (realistic) expectations given the 4000' of ascent and spectacularly muddy and slippery.  By comparison I was 5hr 55 on the Round Reading ultra last July on a flattish course with a good deal of tarmac or decent trails.  Given the course anything under 7 hours would have been okay for me.  It was a great race and Centurion are a great race organiser.  Recommended.
Next race, South Downs Way 50 miles on Easter weekend (insert nervous grimace emoji here....)
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 07 April, 2023, 08:23:59 pm
Good luck Quisling.  I've got PBP qualifiers coming out of my ears so running will be on the back foot so to speak for the next few months.  Will probably aim for the Beachy Head Marathon again, but will need to see when my autumn term study weekends are before making a commitment.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 19 April, 2023, 07:55:19 am
So I've been getting out for training whenever can but April's mad for my family with Easter, holidays, birthdays a d anniversary so slipped a bit. However took day off yesterday and planned a longer run along the flitch way, a old railway track that's now a bridleway.

Ended up doing 43 40 km in just under 5 hours which was very pleased with as a big step up in distance and parts of the path were very muddy.

Legs also aren't too bad this morning
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: felstedrider on 19 April, 2023, 08:12:02 am
So I've been getting out for training whenever can but April's mad for my family with Easter, holidays, birthdays a d anniversary so slipped a bit. However took day off yesterday and planned a longer run along the flitch way, a old railway track that's now a bridleway.

Ended up doing 43 40 km in just under 5 hours which was very pleased with as a big step up in distance and parts of the path were very muddy.

Legs also aren't too bad this morning

Most of my early runs were on the Flitch Way which I can pick up within a couple of minutes of my front door.

My hip woes continued and I have stopped running for now as there's too much cycling on this Summer.   I'll try to get back to Parkrun pretty soon.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: sojournermike on 30 April, 2023, 01:12:32 pm
Putting this here as not sure if runners will look at ‘free to a good home’…

I’ve got a very low mileage (I.e. under 30) pair of Inov8 Trailfly G300 Max trail shoes. Unfortunately I don’t get on with them - although they’re a 5 on Inov8’s fit scale the toe box is lower than the G270s, which combined with the 6mm drop doesn’t help my clunky and Morton’s Neuroma’d right foot. Size 11.5 in Inov8 speak.

So, if anyone would like them and make use of them please drop me a on with your address.

Cheers

Mike
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 03 May, 2023, 12:54:28 pm
With it being PBP year there's too much cycling on the agenda for any serious running, so have hung up the shoes and will aim for another Beachy Head Marathon in October.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: orejas on 04 May, 2023, 08:28:41 pm
Is the flitch way cycleable on a road bike, 25mm tyres?
Thanks
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: mike on 16 May, 2023, 07:52:29 am
very steady 11 miles here.  Still using run / walk, but up to 8:2 which gives loads of time to recover.  I got to 90 minutes with no issues, comfortably in zone 2 as per the plan, but then something went awry and my heart rate shot up by 20 and the last half an hour was pretty tough.


Actually enjoyed most of a half marathon distance run on Sunday, 9:1 run/walk, about half a minute/km faster and HR 20 beats lower than 5 months ago. Wasn't at all sore on Monday.  The training is working...
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 20 June, 2023, 04:12:32 pm
I will get round to a proper write up but over weekend did my big run/walk. 101.95km in 14:45 moving. Undecided if enjoyed it but glad I did it.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 20 June, 2023, 07:01:31 pm
Congratulations. That is awesome as an achievement.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 22 June, 2023, 09:46:00 pm
Congratulations. That is awesome as an achievement.

Thanks, have popped a write upnin ride report but having basically done couch to 100k pretty dam pleased. Still shattered from it mind
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 05 July, 2023, 09:15:13 pm
Weirdly due to not being able to move very freely after run first week although managed a Saturday cycle and heading off to France for a wedding second week I'm now into third week with no running and my legs are tight and sore which is how they often were including the week before run when rested. Really does suggest that exercise is good for them.

Off out for a cycle tomorrow eve and think I'll try and get out for a run Sat morning before the wife heads off for the day leaving me to sort the social plans of the kids
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 29 August, 2023, 09:44:58 am
Now that PBP is over, have started running again.  6.5km this morning to test out the legs.  They seemed to go ok, was able to keep under 5 mins/km and push the last km quicker.  Beachy Head Marathon  is too soon and also clashes with a study day, but will look for a target late November or December.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: SteveC on 19 October, 2023, 05:41:11 pm
Not sure whether to put this in this thread or the "I'm a div" one.
Spent part of the afternoon in A&E having fallen over while running this lunchtime.
The final section of my regular route is down hill on a pedestrian underpass with overhanging trees. It's always a bit slippery there, but usually not too bad if you stick to the centre of the path. Today I met two women each walking a dog. They were both very good about going to one side of the path and keeping the dog close to them. As I passed the second, I must have stepped too far onto the chutney at the side of the path and I went down like a ton of bricks. I was winded, have a bruised and grazed knee, a bashed elbow, and the smallest of cuts on my near my eyebrow from the hinge of my glasses. That last of course blend like blazes, so I looked appalling. One of the dog walkers stayed with me while the other went to my office, only a couple of hundred yards away, returning with two first-aiders.
As I'd obviously hit my head, I was told I had to go to A&E, so MrsC came to take me there.
There appears to be no serious damage. It does not look as though I have concussion. My knee is going to be painful for some time though.

The two women who stopped to help were lovely and Yeovil A&E were excellent.

I will have to work out a new lunchtime running route for the next few months. I don't think I will be doing parkrun on Saturday.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 23 December, 2023, 12:28:38 pm
Strava is such a nag!
It's been telling me I need new shoes for ages now, and they've only got 2000k on them.
So I've got new ones just to shut it up.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53416187399_2ba62a9097_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pocVwg)
New Shoes (https://flic.kr/p/2pocVwg) by Ron Lowe (https://www.flickr.com/photos/62966413@N04/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 01 January, 2024, 09:25:46 am
Having got the running bug last year, although bulk was first half of year and not really doing new year's met a mate for a little 5km explore which went out the window and did a rather muddy 10km run instead. He is a talented runner and I don't go quick but having him with me always helps me run a few PB sections on strava

Really need my shifts to come through for work so can book into an event to aim for and train for
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 06 January, 2024, 05:47:43 pm
Set myself the goal of running the Basingstoke Canal this year, about the 5th time I've set that goal, and never managed it yet.  13km in going that was heavy, waterlogged in places, today and felt full of running at the end, so will probably aim for a half next Friday, but might make it a tarmac one unless its icy.  Not planning any Audax events until April and no PBP to worry about, so will see where running takes me this year.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Andy W on 09 January, 2024, 02:55:26 pm
A mate on strava posted a challenge,  run  100 miles in January. I was a long time ago a reasonable runner.  1984  Hitchin hard half marathon 1.21 and Swineshead ten aileron 1.01. Have run intermittently since but not for last 3 years . I'm on target 29 miles to date. It's slow, mostly 9m/ m. One 8.20 m/ m for 4.5 miles. My target ought to be met and beyond January  I'm aiming for 70% WAVA score. At 63 that's 23.15 for 5km, so probably a reasonably goal for April. I wattbike to help injury free aerobic fitness
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 26 January, 2024, 08:30:08 pm
Since coming off chemo some months back, I've been slowly trying to ramp up my hill running.
I've done lots of my regular routes, and am slowly building strength.
I'm still significantly behind my previous times, and I'm not sure I'll ever get back to them; the best I can hope for is to get back onto the 'steady decline' curve I would have been on.

Today, I did a run up a hill I've never been on before; a little-known minor hill called Pressendye.
10k, a bit technically challenging in places, but a good day out.

https://www.strava.com/activities/10632810527
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Andy W on 06 February, 2024, 04:44:31 am
Good luck Feanor.
I managed to complete the run 100 miles in January. Work commitments meant i missed 3 days and was concerned id miss the deadline. Fortunately, and amazing to me i remained injury free throughout and on 30th ran 13.1 miles in 2 hours flat with one of my sons who also joined this challenge. 2 miles on the 31st January and id met the target.
After a 3 day rest i attempted a 5 km time trial and ran 3.01 instead of 3.1 miles as it was dark and i was slightly short. Nevertheless, i recorded 23: 25. Equates to 67% on theWAVA score.
Im currently 85 kg at 184 cm tall. A full 15 kg heavier than in my 20s. My next goal is to get to 78 kg.
I intend to focus on audax this year but will run twice a week  so as not to lose the running fitness. At 63 its getting exponentially harder each year. Im just grateful i am able run at all when some of my friend and relatives of similar age have various health issues.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 15 February, 2024, 06:47:59 pm
Did a hillier variation of one of my regular routes today.
It's normally a 10k loop round Bennachie, a local hill.
Today, I approached it from a different point which added 4k to the length, but a bunch of climbing because I had to go up and over an extra hill both there and back.

https://www.strava.com/activities/10766714357

Weather was a bit pish, and I was glad of the heated seats when I got back to the car.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: chrisbainbridge on 20 February, 2024, 09:48:09 am
Out for my pre-work run yesterday and saw a badger in the half light running across the fields.  Lovely.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 12 March, 2024, 02:03:37 pm
As have been cycling to work loads haven't run much last 6 months. However got some time off work so went for a run. Was absolutely sodden but felt really good to be out. Annoyingly did 4.99km but always stop strava a little way from home and walk last bit to cool down and whereas have previously ended up running a few more metres to get to next distance I had stopped under a bridge to access phone without it getting soaked.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: The Family Cyclist on 20 March, 2024, 08:42:56 pm
I think my road shoes are dead after probably sub 300km, did 800km last year but a good amount of that was in my old shoes and then off road came in so got a set of decathlon trail shoes which I was massively impressed with. My legs really ache after a short run yesterday and looking at them they're really worn on outside of heels.
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: Feanor on 28 March, 2024, 10:23:40 pm
Did a 15k hill route today; the route of the medium distance option of the 'Illuminator' night-time hill race.
There was rather more Sno than I'd expected!

https://www.strava.com/activities/11055086099
Title: Re: Cross Training: Running
Post by: woollypigs on 29 March, 2024, 08:59:53 am
Since Spanish soil turn to sticky and slippery clay when wet, I'm on a forced hiatus from trail running, thanks Storm Nelson.

Yes there's roads in Spain but the last time I did that my legs hurt for two days after and also the idea of pounding tarmac is filled with boredom and dread.