Olympic nationalism

[TimC]

Makes more sense to me to support those from similar class backgrounds.

Why? What has class got to do with athletic ability or achievement? Surely the beauty of (most) sport is that it is class neutral; it depends mainly upon the ability, determination and application of the individual. We could no doubt go off on one about access, opportunity, international imbalances in funding etc, but those are not the fault or the responsibility of the competitors we're enjoying here and now. I acknowledge and celebrate the achievements and abilities of all the athletes - but I celebrate the British ones just a tad more!

[madcow]

On that basis , ESL  ,I cheer on anyone with the shared  affliction of ginger hair. Congrats to Daniel Purvis,GB  bronze medal in gymnastics.

Come on Ed Clancy.

[Exit Stage Left]

On that basis , ESL  ,I cheer on anyone with the shared  affliction of ginger hair. Congrats to Daniel Purvis,GB  bronze medal in gymnastics.

Come on Ed Clancy.

That's my second order preference, if they're over six foot I prefer the redhead. If two are ginger I prefer the one with blond eyebrows. If all those criteria are satifisfied I prefer the Brit.

[Exit Stage Left]

All my preferences and prejudices combine to make Ellen van Dijk the one I'm following. I've decided that she's a strawberry blonde, and therefore deserves to win the women's TT.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/YPXvpd1k4W0&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/YPXvpd1k4W0&rel=1</a>

[clarion]

Makes more sense to me to support those from similar class backgrounds.

Why? What has class got to do with athletic ability or achievement? Surely the beauty of (most) sport is that it is class neutral; it depends mainly upon the ability, determination and application of the individual. We could no doubt go off on one about access, opportunity, international imbalances in funding etc, but those are not the fault or the responsibility of the competitors we're enjoying here and now. I acknowledge and celebrate the achievements and abilities of all the athletes - but I celebrate the British ones just a tad more!

For all the reasons you cite - access, opportunity etc - it actually has something to do with athletic achievement, whereas that other accident of birth (nationality) has none whatsoever.  So I hope your last clause came with a self-aware wink.

Doesn't matter, anyway.  While I may laugh at the surfeit of surnames in the equestrian events, the majority of athletes are likely to be proletarian anyway, and so my natural internationalism comes into play.

[Manotea]

As it stands right now, looking at the table for delivering Gold Medals:

Team GB: 0
Some guy in Plymouth*: 1

Go Plymouth!


_{*Ruta Meilutyte's coach}

[Tigerrr]

Patriotism is simply a way of claiming identity and shared experiences and aspirations. It is no more (and no more sinister) than supporting your local village team - for those of us that still live in villages. Nationalism, to me at least, is something else entirely with far more sinister overtones. As for the presence of 'military officers' (very unlikely - the officers will be in the bar!) at the flag ceremonies, with something like 16,000 soldiers, sailors and airmen doing the jobs that G4S fucked up on, it's quite likely you're going to see quite a few of them. And they're doing those jobs bloody well.

The picture that surprised me was of the weightlifting flag raise. Chinese flag high & centre, and 5/6 Chinese military in peaked hats standing to attention facing it, quite apart from any crowd - I think its a military flag honour guard. Not nice g4s replacement bored squaddies in pink camo milling about, or conmmissionaires but what appeared to be full on Chinese military as an integral part of their flag, and a clearly military reference point for the anthem etc.
It was most bizzarre and looked very much like something from Berlin 1930s.
It was posted by Gerald on another thread about Olympic experiences - I would copy it here if I knew how. Look at it yourself - its quite 'sinister' as you put it above.
Maybe its a photoshoppped image? 
It looked quite

[mattc]

Tiggerrr, that's the Chinese, what did you expect?

They're hardly representative of the olympic experience (no matter how many medals they win!).

[bobb]

Makes more sense to me to support those from similar class backgrounds.

Why? What has class got to do with athletic ability or achievement? Surely the beauty of (most) sport is that it is class neutral; it depends mainly upon the ability, determination and application of the individual. We could no doubt go off on one about access, opportunity, international imbalances in funding etc, but those are not the fault or the responsibility of the competitors we're enjoying here and now. I acknowledge and celebrate the achievements and abilities of all the athletes - but I celebrate the British ones just a tad more!

For all the reasons you cite - access, opportunity etc - it actually has something to do with athletic achievement, whereas that other accident of birth (nationality) has none whatsoever.  So I hope your last clause came with a self-aware wink.

Doesn't matter, anyway.  While I may laugh at the surfeit of surnames in the equestrian events, the majority of athletes are likely to be proletarian anyway, and so my natural internationalism comes into play.

Your reasons do make sense, but why are you not a massive football fan? The vast majority of players are traditionally (and still are) from, shall we say, lower socio-economic groups. The most popular sport in the entire world - played by ordinary, often underprivileged people everywhere whilst the wealthy prat about on horses and yachts...

[clarion]

It just doesn't interest me - perhaps because I was never much good at it, beyond being a competent keeper and a defender with a good tactical brain.  Rugby league, on the other hand...

[Tigerrr]

Tiggerrr, that's the Chinese, what did you expect?

They're hardly representative of the olympic experience (no matter how many medals they win!).

I haven't been watching - do they militarise all their flag ceremoniesin that way? I assumed it was a one off.  Its deeply offensive if they do and I cant understand how it can be permitted. Do any other nations do that sort of thing?

Then it occurs to me that the sight of so many of our soldiers in the audience in uniform, because they've been given free seats to fill the gaps, might be interpreted quite differently, if one was for instance Argentinian.  Maybe surrounding the Chinese cymbal bashers with squaddies would be a good tactic.

[geraldc]

The picture that surprised me was of the weightlifting flag raise. Chinese flag high & centre, and 5/6 Chinese military in peaked hats standing to attention facing it, quite apart from any crowd - I think its a military flag honour guard. Not nice g4s replacement bored squaddies in pink camo milling about, or conmmissionaires but what appeared to be full on Chinese military as an integral part of their flag, and a clearly military reference point for the anthem etc.
It was most bizzarre and looked very much like something from Berlin 1930s.
It was posted by Gerald on another thread about Olympic experiences - I would copy it here if I knew how. Look at it yourself - its quite 'sinister' as you put it above.
Maybe its a photoshoppped image? 
It looked quite

They were UK Armed services in full dress uniform, not Chinese, which is why I was surprised.

[TimC]

Patriotism is simply a way of claiming identity and shared experiences and aspirations. It is no more (and no more sinister) than supporting your local village team - for those of us that still live in villages. Nationalism, to me at least, is something else entirely with far more sinister overtones. As for the presence of 'military officers' (very unlikely - the officers will be in the bar!) at the flag ceremonies, with something like 16,000 soldiers, sailors and airmen doing the jobs that G4S fucked up on, it's quite likely you're going to see quite a few of them. And they're doing those jobs bloody well.

The picture that surprised me was of the weightlifting flag raise. Chinese flag high & centre, and 5/6 Chinese military in peaked hats standing to attention facing it, quite apart from any crowd - I think its a military flag honour guard. Not nice g4s replacement bored squaddies in pink camo milling about, or conmmissionaires but what appeared to be full on Chinese military as an integral part of their flag, and a clearly military reference point for the anthem etc.
It was most bizzarre and looked very much like something from Berlin 1930s.
It was posted by Gerald on another thread about Olympic experiences - I would copy it here if I knew how. Look at it yourself - its quite 'sinister' as you put it above.
Maybe its a photoshoppped image? 
It looked quite

Chinese military? Sorry, but no way! They are Royal Air Force personnel. They are wearing their standard No1 uniform, as is appropriate for acknowledging the flags of other nations in a formal setting.

[mattc]

They are Royal Air Force personnel. They are wearing their standard No1 uniform, as is appropriate for acknowledging the flags of other nations in a formal setting.

Sadly, this is the sort of thing branded as 'nationalism' by some people.

[clarion]

It's militarist, but not nationalist.  Different problem

[Exit Stage Left]

It's militarist, but not nationalist.  Different problem

I know what you mean, as I'm as anti-militarist as any, but the huge number of weapon-based events shows the root of much of the Olympic ethos. The Modern Pentathlon, for instance, is explicitly about the skills needed by a military despatch rider, and many competitors across the games come from a military background.
I'm the kind of person who views the scouting movement as a little too nationalistic, so I'm by definition a bit weird. I'd be happier with a Woodcraft Folk equivalent to the Olympic Jamboree. But I'm not going to attempt to deny the mainstream the pleasure of a mainstream festival because I tend to fringe views.
Meanwhile I'm amused by the elevation of Bradley to Messiah status, he's Brian, from the Lfe of Brian at heart. I wonder what his contrarian reaction to his followers will be. Perhaps a sudden conversion to Eurovision hits, I might do a medley of his greatest moments to 'Making Your Mind Up' by Bucks Fizz.

[Cudzoziemiec]

A Woodcraft Folk Olympics would surely include spoon whittling, which would probably give YACF a couple of medallists.

[Manotea]

It's militarist, but not nationalist.  Different problem

I know what you mean, as I'm as anti-militarist as any, but the huge number of weapon-based events shows the root of much of the Olympic ethos. The Modern Pentathlon, for instance, is explicitly about the skills needed by a military despatch rider, and many competitors across the games come from a military background.

There go the shooting, archery, martial arts and a sizeable chunk of the athletics events, up to and including the Marathon.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Makes more sense to me to support those from similar class backgrounds.

Why? What has class got to do with athletic ability or achievement? Surely the beauty of (most) sport is that it is class neutral; it depends mainly upon the ability, determination and application of the individual. We could no doubt go off on one about access, opportunity, international imbalances in funding etc, but those are not the fault or the responsibility of the competitors we're enjoying here and now. I acknowledge and celebrate the achievements and abilities of all the athletes - but I celebrate the British ones just a tad more!

For all the reasons you cite - access, opportunity etc - it actually has something to do with athletic achievement, whereas that other accident of birth (nationality) has none whatsoever.  So I hope your last clause came with a self-aware wink.

Doesn't matter, anyway.  While I may laugh at the surfeit of surnames in the equestrian events, the majority of athletes are likely to be proletarian anyway, and so my natural internationalism comes into play.

Your reasons do make sense, but why are you not a massive football fan? The vast majority of players are traditionally (and still are) from, shall we say, lower socio-economic groups. The most popular sport in the entire world - played by ordinary, often underprivileged people everywhere whilst the wealthy prat about on horses and yachts...

I'm not sure that class makes any more or less sense as a reason to support a particular athlete than nationality. The reasons of opportunity, access and support all make sense, but they vary by nationality too; and the combination of class and nationality means that whereas most athletes from rich nations may be 'proletarian' those from poorer countries are more likely to be 'bourgeois' (is that the term? )

It's an interesting point about football though. Cricket, supposedly India's national game, is dominated by upper castes (as are rugby - union, I don't think there's any league there - and cycling), go to the poor areas of town and the game you see kids playing in the street is football. But visit the pubs and bars in the city centre and there are many middle class Indians wearing Arsenal and Chelsea shirts. The only Indian medal winner in London so far (air rifle) actually has a name indicating an upper merchant-administrative caste, to which the PM also belongs.

Myself, if I've no other reason to prefer one competitor over another, I like to support the one with the nicest shirt or from the country with the prettiest flag!

[Exit Stage Left]

A Woodcraft Folk Olympics would surely include spoon whittling, which would probably give YACF a couple of medallists.

I'd be up for the boundary management triathlon; fencing,walling and hedging. There's be 26 pages of closely worded debate to decide if there should be seperate men's and wimmin's classes.
I'd be in favour, as I could compete in the Men's and Heather could compete in the Wimmin's, there's more chance that way.

[clarion]

DSW should be in the cultural olympiad.  No question.

[Exit Stage Left]

DSW should be in the cultural olympiad.  No question.

Waller friends have been complaining on Facebook that Boyle's Teletubby Land/ Shire was a bit DSW light, us hedgers definitely shaded them there.

[clarion]

May have taken a wee bit longer to strike

[Exit Stage Left]

May have taken a wee bit longer to strike

They didn't seem to have much problem with those chimneys.

[clarion]

Ah, but chimneys are here today gone tomorrow, whereas a properly built wall...