Author Topic: Average speed cameras - the way forward?  (Read 13872 times)

Ben T

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #50 on: 07 February, 2018, 09:10:37 pm »
I don't think the maths or physics vary with the type of road!

The conditions do, though.  Dual cabbageways often have features that motorways don't - traffic lights, roundabouts, junctions without sliproads, etc. which are likely to affect the sweet spot for traffic throughput.  Probably in the downwards direction.

Indeed, it just gets you to the next stopping point (or traffic) sooner, when the slower vehicles catch up. While using far more fuel and putting far more stress on your car. But no, there's convincing many drivers of this, despite the fact they experience it every time they get in their car.

Years of driving long distance have made me slow down long before I reach the roundabout.  The idea being to reach it when there is no queue and the car in front of me is just entering the roundabout.  Because my speed is low and I am in the right gear I have plenty of time to observe traffic and can frequently enter the roundabout without needing to brake (I don't brake a lot - it puzzles my garage when they check the pads).   It is far less tiring doing it that way.


Completely agree, i never brake either, find it far better to simply steam round roundabouts at full chat as well.

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #51 on: 08 February, 2018, 02:58:07 pm »
I don't think the maths or physics vary with the type of road!

The conditions do, though.  Dual cabbageways often have features that motorways don't - traffic lights, roundabouts, junctions without sliproads, etc. which are likely to affect the sweet spot for traffic throughput.  Probably in the downwards direction.

Indeed, it just gets you to the next stopping point (or traffic) sooner, when the slower vehicles catch up. While using far more fuel and putting far more stress on your car. But no, there's convincing many drivers of this, despite the fact they experience it every time they get in their car.

Years of driving long distance have made me slow down long before I reach the roundabout.  The idea being to reach it when there is no queue and the car in front of me is just entering the roundabout.  Because my speed is low and I am in the right gear I have plenty of time to observe traffic and can frequently enter the roundabout without needing to brake (I don't brake a lot - it puzzles my garage when they check the pads).   It is far less tiring doing it that way.


Completely agree, i never brake either, find it far better to simply steam round roundabouts at full chat as well.

Yeah, because easing off well in advance and coasting or engine braking up to the roundabout means you're charging on at full road speed.

(The good Dr Martin can testify to the Motorway Minibus game - admittedly no roundabouts, but it's certainly possible to get from J12 of the M6 (for the Hollies, q.v passim) to the slip for Newport Pagnell services without touching the brake.)

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #52 on: 09 February, 2018, 09:04:43 pm »
It's funny when I learnt to ride motorbikes there was an emphasis on forward thinking, using the gears and engine braking which can be a lot more forceful on a bike to the degree I've met advanced trained riders who rest a foot in the rear brake pedal so they have brake lights on. When I later learnt to drive I was told I used to much engine braking and should use the foot brake more.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #53 on: 10 February, 2018, 11:10:00 am »
The use of engine braking has been Strongly Deprecated by driving instructors for many a long year; I suspect this correlates with front disc brakes becoming near-universal on ordinary cars.  I blame Sir Sir Jackie Stewart for this "gears to go, brakes to slow" nonsense.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Ben T

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #54 on: 10 February, 2018, 01:44:35 pm »
(The good Dr Martin can testify to the Motorway Minibus game - admittedly no roundabouts, but it's certainly possible to get from J12 of the M6 (for the Hollies, q.v passim) to the slip for Newport Pagnell services without touching the brake.)
(As any other adaptive cruise user will know it's possible to get from anywhere to anywhere else without touching the brake , in any amount of traffic - as long as it hasn't got roundabouts/traffic lights that are on red...  :smug:)
Not only possible, easy and pleasant.
I think when I drove to dorset I probably didn't touch the brake from M1 J24 to somerset.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #55 on: 10 February, 2018, 01:59:11 pm »
Giraffe has hired a car and used surprisingly little fuel to transport us places by smooth driving.
Smooth driving is MUCH more comfortable than the pedal-dancing used by rat-running minicab drivers!
The perpetual passenger.

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #56 on: 10 February, 2018, 02:46:39 pm »
I would expect cyclists to be smoother drivers than non-cyclists. We are more aware of how to conserve momentum and not waste energy.

When in stop-start traffic, particularly on the M25, I play a little game of not quite coming to a full stop as far as possible by observing traffic movement further ahead.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #57 on: 10 February, 2018, 02:49:59 pm »
I certainly drive like a cyclist, and when I get behind the wheel of an EV/hybrid, that only encourages me.

My perpetual passenger certainly appreciates it, even if the driver behind doesn't.

Ben T

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #58 on: 10 February, 2018, 03:11:11 pm »
I would expect cyclists to be smoother drivers than non-cyclists. We are more aware of how to conserve momentum and not waste energy.

When in stop-start traffic, particularly on the M25, I play a little game of not quite coming to a full stop as far as possible by observing traffic movement further ahead.
Yes I do that ,it's quite an art because if you leave too big a gap, somebody will fill it.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #59 on: 10 February, 2018, 07:00:22 pm »
Two issues with average speed cameras are:

1.  Lane discipline goes out the window as all the BMW and Merc drivers who used to sit at 90 in the third lane are forced to sit with everyone else, and there is a lot of undertaking and switching lanes to try and get past the guy doing 1mph slower than them.

2. 50mph average speed cameras prove what complete bastards HGV drivers are; they finally achieve their life's ambition to keep up with the cars, so they sit 3 feet from your rear bumper to shit you up, or overtake you if they think they can get away with doing 52mph.  This is rather unnerving if you're in a low-slung car, because you never know if they can actually see you once they're alongside.  A relative learned the hard way not to sit alongside a lorry for any longer than is absolutely necessary - she was sideswiped by a foreign HGV and the police weren't interested because they said you can't expect the driver of an LHD lorry to see you  ??? :facepalm:
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #60 on: 10 February, 2018, 07:04:45 pm »
Back in the 1970s I read an interview with a chauffeur from Victor Britain, which was basically a mega-posh minicab outfit run by Avis, who reckoned that if you timed it just right you could cruise down the A4 from the Chiswick roundabout to Piccadilly Circus at a steady 20 mph and not have to touch the brakes.  His company car was a Rolls-Royce Phantom VI weighing about three tons so as well as being more comfortable for the posho in the back the fuel savings were considerable.
We have a family challenge to get through Thatcham on the A4 without stopping, a Herculean task with the vast number of traffic lights.  I've done it twice in 30 years, most recently about four years ago.  As long as your wheels keep moving, it doesn't count as a stop.  I have really crawled the last ten yards to the lights sometimes, blowing frantically (does anyone else try to blow lights to green?).
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #61 on: 10 February, 2018, 07:45:21 pm »
Is it a myth that you can do Slough on the A4 at a steady 28mph?

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #62 on: 10 February, 2018, 07:48:54 pm »
blowing frantically (does anyone else try to blow lights to green?).

No, but barakta has a Buddhist chant for it.

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #63 on: 10 February, 2018, 08:20:45 pm »
(The good Dr Martin can testify to the Motorway Minibus game - admittedly no roundabouts, but it's certainly possible to get from J12 of the M6 (for the Hollies, q.v passim) to the slip for Newport Pagnell services without touching the brake.)
(As any other adaptive cruise user will know it's possible to get from anywhere to anywhere else without touching the brake , in any amount of traffic - as long as it hasn't got roundabouts/traffic lights that are on red...  :smug:)
Not only possible, easy and pleasant.
I think when I drove to dorset I probably didn't touch the brake from M1 J24 to somerset.

This was *well* before adaptive cruise control.

(Mind you, I find ACC a bit disconcerting. I suppose I've only had it on hire cars, and too infrequently to get used to it.)

Ben T

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #64 on: 10 February, 2018, 09:43:35 pm »
It's a bit weird at first but you get used to it. Once you know what it can and can't do and how long it takes to lock on and lock off it's pretty good. It's not so much a complete auto pilot but a tool to use in appropriate situations.
For instance sometimes when the vehicle ahead turns off and you're not, it slows down with them till about a second after they're completely out the way, but to conserve momentum you can just click it off for a second and back on again. Also just learning to recognise when resuming will result in pointless acceleration.
And before anybody asks yes it does lock onto cyclists, I've tested it.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #65 on: 10 February, 2018, 10:09:41 pm »
It isn't an option on the Mazda 6 unless you have a diesel engine AND a slushbox.  So mine will have normal cruise.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #66 on: 10 February, 2018, 10:33:32 pm »
Is it a myth that you can do Slough on the A4 at a steady 28mph?

Slough had the first linked traffic lights alongside the trading estate in the 1950s, I remember them in my father's car!

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #67 on: 10 February, 2018, 10:58:20 pm »
Two issues with average speed cameras are:

1.  Lane discipline goes out the window as all the BMW and Merc drivers who used to sit at 90 in the third lane are forced to sit with everyone else, and there is a lot of undertaking and switching lanes to try and get past the guy doing 1mph slower than them.

2. 50mph average speed cameras prove what complete bastards HGV drivers are; they finally achieve their life's ambition to keep up with the cars, so they sit 3 feet from your rear bumper to shit you up, or overtake you if they think they can get away with doing 52mph.  This is rather unnerving if you're in a low-slung car, because you never know if they can actually see you once they're alongside.  A relative learned the hard way not to sit alongside a lorry for any longer than is absolutely necessary - she was sideswiped by a foreign HGV and the police weren't interested because they said you can't expect the driver of an LHD lorry to see you  ??? :facepalm:

You simply adopt an inability to drive at a constant speed. Drivers stay further away from unpredictable vehicles.
It is simpler than it looks.

Ben T

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #68 on: 11 February, 2018, 03:16:48 pm »
It isn't an option on the Mazda 6 unless you have a diesel engine AND a slushbox.  So mine will have normal cruise.
Having to be a slushbox is understandable as it needs to be able to vary the speed of its own accord from crawling to cruising speeds, but not sure why it has to be a diesel.
I personally think it's an advantage of having an automatic.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #69 on: 11 February, 2018, 03:19:56 pm »
It isn't an option on the Mazda 6 unless you have a diesel engine AND a slushbox.  So mine will have normal cruise.
Having to be a slushbox is understandable as it needs to be able to vary the speed of its own accord from crawling to cruising speeds, but not sure why it has to be a diesel.

Petrol engine throttle not fly-by-wire?

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #70 on: 11 February, 2018, 03:50:23 pm »
Is it a myth that you can do Slough on the A4 at a steady 28mph?

I heard something similar about the Euston Road years ago - apparently you could get from the end of the Westway to Kings Cross station without stopping if you drove at exactly 30mph (provided the traffic was not backed up).  I've never deliberately tried but I did get a 'green wave' most of the way along once driving at just under 30.
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #71 on: 11 February, 2018, 04:01:44 pm »
Most cities now control lights centrally to smooth the traffic flow. For example, the inward and outward flows in the morning and evening peaks can be optimised.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #72 on: 11 February, 2018, 04:35:43 pm »
I did once draft a four-axle tipper lorry down the Edgware Road from Staples Corner to the Marylebone Road without touching the brakes ;D
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #73 on: 11 February, 2018, 04:43:11 pm »
blowing frantically (does anyone else try to blow lights to green?).

No, but barakta has a Buddhist chant for it.

Om mani padme vroom.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Average speed cameras - the way forward?
« Reply #74 on: 11 February, 2018, 06:23:01 pm »
It isn't an option on the Mazda 6 unless you have a diesel engine AND a slushbox.  So mine will have normal cruise.
Having to be a slushbox is understandable as it needs to be able to vary the speed of its own accord from crawling to cruising speeds, but not sure why it has to be a diesel.

Petrol engine throttle not fly-by-wire?
My Skoda is a diesel with a stick shift. It has ACC, which is v good.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)