[HAMR] New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1

[simonp]

It requires mobile phone coverage, which SPOT doesn't, as it's a satellite based system.

[velovoice]

UMCA say Bruce wasn't compliant on day 1, so he had 17 days to bring himself into compliance (presumably with lots of communications back and forth between him and his team with UMCA), until UMCA called it quits. The references on Bruce's part to "administrative errors on UMCA's end" lead me instead to wonder...  Did UMCA simply not receive the fee that Bruce needed to pay to be an official HAMR challenger? Presumably this would have involved a bank transfer from Australia -- maybe there was a problem with that?

Pure speculation on my part of course but it make more sense to me than the tracker theory.

[Exit Stage Left]

AIUI the purpose of the tracker is so that they can potentially send someone out at random times to check that you are where you say you are, riding in accordance with their rules.

And not only the UMCA but any member of the public.

I've been in contact with various film-makers who've used trackers to try to rendezvous  with riders they've been following. The time lag makes that difficult.

[Jack_P]

Interestingly Bruce can claim the highest mileage in 1 month "world record" because it was officially recognised
where as we all know that Teethgrinder, Tommy Godwin and Kurt have all ridden further.

He must be careful.

[Mr Larrington]

I see that Wikipedia has not bedn updated since Kurt broke the record.

That can be very easily remedied, you know.

[LMT]

Looking at his recent Strava upload comments. It appears that the UMCA from the offset were not in the loop to ratify his record - that's that way I read it anyways.

Much ado about nothing, keep turning those pedals Bruce!

[TimC]

Interestingly Bruce can claim the highest mileage in 1 month "world record" because it was officially recognised
where as we all know that Teethgrinder, Tommy Godwin and Kurt have all ridden further.

He must be careful.

I agree. GPX/TCX tracks are essentially text files, and are easily manufactured. Bruce doesn't use a heart rate monitor, so there's no way to prove beyond doubt that he rode where he said he rode, and that it was actually him that did it. No-one else is verifying his effort by witnessing the events (which, I believe, is at least in part how Tommy's ride was recorded), so, without the umbrella of a monitoring organisation, his ride will carry little weight and will appear in history as no more than a footnote. That's a pitiful reward for all that effort!

UCMA may be twunts, but they give Kurt and Steve's efforts credibility.

[Citizenfish]

I see that Wikipedia has not bedn updated since Kurt broke the record.

That can be very easily remedied, you know.

I started doing it at the weekend but the mark-up is so horrendous I backed off until such time as I can put some proper effort into it.

[hillbilly]

That is really harsh on UMCA. 
They are doing a reasonable job overseeing the record attempts. 
I don't detect any twuntage.

Bruce's attempt didn't comply for some reason. UMCA appear to have given Bruce a reasonable opportunity to amend the situation.  He didn't. So they are in their rights to DQ Bruce.

Bruce can carry on. He may even tally up enough miles for an unofficial record.  But that's all it will be. Unofficial and anecdotal to "history".

This board bemuses me at the moment.

[Greenbank]

I agree. GPX/TCX tracks are essentially text files, and are easily manufactured. Bruce doesn't use a heart rate monitor, so there's no way to prove beyond doubt that he rode where he said he rode, and that it was actually him that did it.

The HR data wouldn't prove that either, it's just more data in the existing files (even the binary .fit files are easy to fake). Bruce is collecting power data (the UMCA ask for power or HR along with time/location), and power data is harder to fake convincingly than HR data.

Live tracking (via a service like a SPOT tracker rather than a Garmin/Strava App) is the key though as it makes it many orders of magnitude harder to fake, and you risk being found out by random checks.

[nextSibling]

UCMA may be twunts

I'm seeing no good evidence to conclude that.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I see that Wikipedia has not bedn updated since Kurt broke the record.

Difficult to update Wikipedia when UMCA haven't updated their website.

[TimC]

UCMA may be twunts

I'm seeing no good evidence to conclude that.

No, nor me - I'm just allowing for the possibility that the issue may be at their end. I make no judgement either way.

I agree. GPX/TCX tracks are essentially text files, and are easily manufactured. Bruce doesn't use a heart rate monitor, so there's no way to prove beyond doubt that he rode where he said he rode, and that it was actually him that did it.

The HR data wouldn't prove that either, it's just more data in the existing files (even the binary .fit files are easy to fake). Bruce is collecting power data (the UMCA ask for power or HR along with time/location), and power data is harder to fake convincingly than HR data.

Live tracking (via a service like a SPOT tracker rather than a Garmin/Strava App) is the key though as it makes it many orders of magnitude harder to fake, and you risk being found out by random checks.

I agree that live tracking is essential in verifying the attempt. However, I assumed (I don't actually know) that a heart trace would show characteristics unique to the rider, which could if necessary confirm that it was Bruce and not someone else (or a computer) that rode the recorded miles.

[Greenbank]

The HR data wouldn't help, if you had someone ride instead who had a different resting HR and a different HR max it may stick out a bit, but it's easily fixed by transposing each figure into the expected range for Bruce. Also it may have been Bruce himself but under the weather a bit or suffering from a mild virus that caused his HR to be a bit higher than normal for the same effort.

Same with power data as that can be corrected for a heavier/lighter or more/less aerodynamic rider.

Creating fake data from scratch is quite hard, but cobbling it together from existing rides or portions thereof and making new rides that way is quite easy. Strava itself provides a huge corpus of data to base fake rides off.

[mattc]

This is the UCMA statement(s):
www.ultracycling.com/wp_news/?p=967
(can't hurt to post twice!)

UCMA may be twunts

I'm seeing no good evidence to conclude that.

No, nor me - I'm just allowing for the possibility that the issue may be at their end. I make no judgement either way.

Tim, I've tried reading your post with every conceivable emphasis, and it still souns like you think they're twunts!

Oh well, you've set the record straight now! 

[Freya]

A note from Doug Hoffman, Executive Director of the UMCA:

At this time we are not going to explain further the reason for his disqualification. What we will say is that he was notified of the issues by every means at our disposal and offered support in resolving said issues.

If he were to desire to attempt a record with the UMCA as the regulating body at any time in the future and was willing to comply with published rules, we would welcome his participation.

 

[TimC]

This is the UCMA statement(s):
www.ultracycling.com/wp_news/?p=967
(can't hurt to post twice!)

UCMA may be twunts

I'm seeing no good evidence to conclude that.

No, nor me - I'm just allowing for the possibility that the issue may be at their end. I make no judgement either way.

Tim, I've tried reading your post with every conceivable emphasis, and it still souns like you think they're twunts!

Oh well, you've set the record straight now! 

Matt, it was simply that quite a few posts made here and elsewhere referred to UCMA disparagingly. Given Miles' similar dissatisfaction with UCMA, and the fact that Steve and Kurt both had slightly bizarre interactions with them about alcohol, I have to allow that UCMA may have screwed this up themselves and hence may be twunts! But of course they may not have screwed it up at all (and I have no evidence either way) in this case.

[Wowbagger]

Why are they being so secretive? Top sports people's efforts become public property and the only way the UMCA can command respect as the authority that gives authenticity to the MMIAY record is to be open about their decisions. When Lance Armstrong was stripped of his TdF titles, everyone knew why.

[mattc]

Secretive? I'd say the statement is pretty clear.

Not wanting to get into an extended debate is fairly common for governing bodies;
arguably cos it can turn into mudslinging and "he said she said" type sagas, or
because the details may make said body look like "twunts"

[Wowbagger]

It's not clear at all. We haven't been told what the issue is, other than that he hasn't complied with certain rules. It would help if they said which rules.

[Greenbank]

At this time we are not going to explain further the reason for his disqualification.

Seems very clear to me.

[Wowbagger]

Yes, it's clear that they are not going to explain the reason for the disqualification.

[Greenbank]

At this time. Yes.

They've probably been hounded by people asking why, so instead of saying nothing (and leaving people guessing as to what is going on) they've said "Stop asking, we'll explain in due course."

[clarion]

Way to kill the rumours and speculation, UMCA!

[red marley]

I'd be surprised if it wasn't related to the lack of live satellite tracking. I imagine via phone is sufficiently unreliable (reception and battery issues) to cause problems.


Oh dear. I've fallen into the trap of filling an information void with speculation. Must. Stop. Now.