Author Topic: [HAMR] New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1  (Read 165347 times)

crowriver

  • Крис Б
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #500 on: 21 January, 2016, 07:16:52 am »
Yes, according to Guinness it's Davidson that's the record holder.

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/118987-farthest-distance-cycled-in-one-month

Maybe someone would like to comment on the road.cc article to that effect?

It's Davison, and it was done yesterday.

I didn't mean on here, I meant on road.cc - just in case its readership is under the illusion that Bruce officially holds any records (even if, unofficially, unverified, he would appear to do so). I'm not registered there or I'd have done it myself...  ;D
Embrace your inner Fred.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #501 on: 21 January, 2016, 09:44:32 am »
Yes, it was done on Road.cc yesterday by both me and Aidan on different threads.

crowriver

  • Крис Б
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #502 on: 21 January, 2016, 09:44:42 am »
No-one knows how volatile internet media are. Strava kudos may evaporate at some point, and the record books will live on.
I'm surprised that there's no Pathe News footage of Tommy Godwin. They seemed fixated on women professionals, so Eileen Sheridan puts in a couple of appearances, most memorably in this piece. http://www.britishpathe.com/video/housewife-cyclist/query/Eileen+Sheridan
Place to Place records became unfashionable for most. I still like them, and Eileen still has a few, 60 years later.

http://www.rra.org.uk/records%20place%20to%20place.html

Yes, these records, while they may seem 'parochial' in comparison to the globe trotting antics celebrated in the media nowadays, are still impressive. Plenty of scope for female riders to take on some challenges I would think... Maybe some fast audaxers or triathletes who would take on the male solo records too? (Don't look at me BTW  ;D)
Embrace your inner Fred.

crowriver

  • Крис Б
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #503 on: 21 January, 2016, 09:45:50 am »
Yes, it was done on Road.cc yesterday by both me and Aidan on different threads.

Aidan's has only just appeared: heavy comment moderation?

Which thread does yours appear in? Can't see any sign of it...
Embrace your inner Fred.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #504 on: 21 January, 2016, 09:47:37 am »
Aidan's was visible to me at 2 am this morning. Mine was on the thread that reported Bruce's DQ by UMCA.

Edit: 2 posts on this thread

crowriver

  • Крис Б
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #505 on: 21 January, 2016, 09:51:20 am »
Aidan's appears under that article, posted 2 hours ago apparently. If yours is there too, it doesn't mention Davison nor Bruce's lack of any public verification of "his" records...
Embrace your inner Fred.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #506 on: 21 January, 2016, 09:55:14 am »
Eddington: 114 Miles

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #507 on: 21 January, 2016, 09:55:22 am »
Aidan's appears under that article, posted 2 hours ago apparently. If yours is there too, it doesn't mention Davison nor Bruce's lack of any public verification of "his" records...

Yes, it does. See the link above. Aidan's is in the thread that reports Bruce's attempt being under Guinness mine is, as I said, on the thread that reports his DQ by UMCA. They are different threads

crowriver

  • Крис Б
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #508 on: 21 January, 2016, 10:07:12 am »
Aidan's appears under that article, posted 2 hours ago apparently. If yours is there too, it doesn't mention Davison nor Bruce's lack of any public verification of "his" records...

Yes, it does. See the link above. Aidan's is in the thread that reports Bruce's attempt being under Guinness mine is, as I said, on the thread that reports his DQ by UMCA. They are different threads

Okay, gotcha. Good that some are attempting to set "the record" straight!
Embrace your inner Fred.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #509 on: 21 January, 2016, 10:12:38 am »

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #510 on: 21 January, 2016, 10:14:04 am »
Indeed. I am a bit baffled about how Guinness could be verifying his attempt given that for Kajsa's attempt, no drafting is allowed. (I think?) Bruce has posted plenty of pictures of drafting pro teams. Surely this means a restart then? I wonder whether he has looked into the Guinness rules any better than he did the UMCA rules?

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #511 on: 21 January, 2016, 10:17:58 am »
no drafting is allowed. (I think?)

Correct.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #512 on: 21 January, 2016, 10:22:44 am »
I commented under the article because it states specifically that Bruce holds two records.  But that doesnt seem to be the case, although happy to be shown it is. 
I believe quite strongly (surprisingly so!)  that any record needs to be properly ratified.   In the schem of things it doesnt affect me as I am somewhat unlikely to be a challenger here  ;D

But I've supported Steve, and was rooting for Kurt, certainly in the second half of his record breaking ride. I think it unfair that just because the rules dont suit Bruce it looks like he will ride and claim a record anyway.  If I was Kurt or Steve or anyone else doing it "properly"  I'd be mighty pissed off with that.

As I said elsewhere, Bruces current riding is no more than a long bike ride its not a record attempt.  Strava Kudos and followers count for nothing much.

Will be interesting to see what Guinness actually say, only word I can see so far is Bruce saying they are ratifying, but if he cant adhere to UMCA  rules I cant see he'll stick to Guinnesss either.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #513 on: 21 January, 2016, 10:33:23 am »
The suggested rules posted above from Guinness were clearly just a rehash of what they use for people doing records such as the fastest 250m, 400m and other "short" records (including up to the hour or even the recent female 24 hour record) and unless done on a velodrome track they're prohibitively insane. Hence all the guff about being videod (preferably from a static place), perfectly flat or anything more than 1:1000 must be done uphill, witnesses, timekeepers, etc. Someone really didn't think when they sent those out (including the leap year issue as pointed out by mrcharly) for a year long record.

There's no way that those were the stipulations used for, say, Beaumont's Round the World record. So I'd expect there to be something a little more sane.

Someone said that Kasja may have posted the Guinness info pack on her site or blog somewhere, haven't had a chance to check. That may contain the answers to some of the questions here rather than constant speculation.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #514 on: 21 January, 2016, 10:47:25 am »
Indeed. I am a bit baffled about how Guinness could be verifying his attempt given that for Kajsa's attempt, no drafting is allowed. (I think?) Bruce has posted plenty of pictures of drafting pro teams. Surely this means a restart then? I wonder whether he has looked into the Guinness rules any better than he did the UMCA rules?

If Bruce has indeed secured oversight from Guinness - and given the non-appearance of his other Guinness 'records', I'm dubious - I imagine he will have to start again as nothing he's done so far will count under their rules. If he's prepared to do it for Guinness, why not UMCA?

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #515 on: 21 January, 2016, 10:48:47 am »
Someone said that Kasja may have posted the Guinness info pack on her site or blog somewhere, haven't had a chance to check. That may contain the answers to some of the questions here rather than constant speculation.

She posted a picture of the pack, not its contents (I think it was 36 pages long!). However, I'm quite sure she negotiated a far more practical system of oversight than the rules we've seen on this thread.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #516 on: 21 January, 2016, 10:50:50 am »
No-one knows how volatile internet media are. Strava kudos may evaporate at some point, and the record books will live on.
I'm surprised that there's no Pathe News footage of Tommy Godwin. They seemed fixated on women professionals, so Eileen Sheridan puts in a couple of appearances, most memorably in this piece. http://www.britishpathe.com/video/housewife-cyclist/query/Eileen+Sheridan
Place to Place records became unfashionable for most. I still like them, and Eileen still has a few, 60 years later.

http://www.rra.org.uk/records%20place%20to%20place.html

Yes, these records, while they may seem 'parochial' in comparison to the globe trotting antics celebrated in the media nowadays, are still impressive. Plenty of scope for female riders to take on some challenges I would think... Maybe some fast audaxers or triathletes who would take on the male solo records too? (Don't look at me BTW  ;D)


These are the records that get reported in the papers, as when James Cracknell had a couple of attempts at the LEJOG. The Daily Mirror reported the new tandem record last year, under 'Weird News', which is the heading Steve was under. It seems to be where they put world records.  http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/british-pair-smash-tandem-world-5654858

Bruce had a couple of attempts at the LEJOGLE, which lacks RRA status and is a bit of a 'Look at Me' record.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #517 on: 21 January, 2016, 11:22:05 am »
We have actually debated many of these points before, in a thread about Hoppo's LEJOGLE attempts. Reading the whole thread is interesting in the light of what's happened. It's only three pages.

It's been pointed out that he'd have done rather better to start at JOG!  If this were an RRA record, he'd have been allowed to start at any point on the route.  I don't know what Guinness say about doing that.   

Thinking about it, I think Ben Rockett just turned up, rode and then claimed to have the record, rather than getting it validated by Guinness.  Does this mean that Hoppo could claim to be the Guinness record holder even if he finishes in over 5 days 21 hours?

Possibly.
I have heard that Guinness now charge £1000 per record claim.
I did check the LE-JOG record in a Guinness Book of Records after Gethin Butler's record ride in 2001. It was talking about that ride with people who were involved when I heard of the £1000 fee. When I checked the book, it still had Wilko's ride as the record.
Hoppo seems to be very good at gaining sponsorship.

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=70176.25

The Ben Rockett record is listed on Wikipedia. Does anyone know how it was validated? There's a book, which is inspiring, apparently. http://www.rockettrides.com/?page_id=1270

Hoppo made it known that his attempts were officially sanctioned.

crowriver

  • Крис Б
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #518 on: 21 January, 2016, 11:58:29 am »
No-one knows how volatile internet media are. Strava kudos may evaporate at some point, and the record books will live on.
I'm surprised that there's no Pathe News footage of Tommy Godwin. They seemed fixated on women professionals, so Eileen Sheridan puts in a couple of appearances, most memorably in this piece. http://www.britishpathe.com/video/housewife-cyclist/query/Eileen+Sheridan
Place to Place records became unfashionable for most. I still like them, and Eileen still has a few, 60 years later.

http://www.rra.org.uk/records%20place%20to%20place.html

Yes, these records, while they may seem 'parochial' in comparison to the globe trotting antics celebrated in the media nowadays, are still impressive. Plenty of scope for female riders to take on some challenges I would think... Maybe some fast audaxers or triathletes who would take on the male solo records too? (Don't look at me BTW  ;D)


These are the records that get reported in the papers, as when James Cracknell had a couple of attempts at the LEJOG. The Daily Mirror reported the new tandem record last year, under 'Weird News', which is the heading Steve was under. It seems to be where they put world records.  http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/british-pair-smash-tandem-world-5654858

Bruce had a couple of attempts at the LEJOGLE, which lacks RRA status and is a bit of a 'Look at Me' record.

Bruce's records all seem to have an element of that. Maybe he thinks that in today's "attention economy", getting eyeballs on cycling web site reports / Strava is all that matters?

It is rather curious his attitude towards bodies who would verify his attempts so they become actual records rather than just alleged world beating triumphs (according to Bruce and a few poorly researched articles).
Embrace your inner Fred.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #519 on: 21 January, 2016, 12:06:04 pm »
From Bruce's FB:

Hi everyone – I felt that you were all due an explanation of the issues I have had with HAMR and the ‘official’ record status.
Firstly, I would like to thank all of you for your on-going support. It really gives me energy to keep pushing. Thank you. Thanks also to my sponsors who have been great in helping me with this record attempt.

Prior to starting the record attempt, I was contacted by a number of people who recommended HAMR but I would need to register with them in order for them to officiate. I wondered as to how that would benefit me as a rider – as I am already being ‘officiated’ by Guinness – who are World renowned with record attempts and validation. However, after some thought, I conceded and explained to HAMR that I would like to join them and appear on their league tables.
At this stage, I was informed that there was a $300 registration fee. It seemed steep, but I paid.
I commenced the record attempt on January 1st. Since then I was contacted by HAMR to explain that I also needed to pay my annual membership fee – another $30. I had assumed this would be covered in the previous payment of $300 – it wasn’t. I was also informed that in addition to my Garmin, I would need to provide a live tracking device. I offered a iPhone based app (Find my Friend) which would enable the organisation to verifiy my Garmin records.
I was informed that this would not be acceptable as they required me to provide a tracking device that ALL MEMBERS of the group could follow. Real time. I was also told that a single piece of technology would acceptable – a further $200
From a personal security perspective, I have a major issue with every single member of the public able to know exactly where I am (more importantly – where I am not) at any time of the day. My living space will be compromised, and there is no ‘Privacy Zone’ setting. I have no issue in any single member of the HAMR organisation using a tracking device for me – but not the general public.
Further to this – I provided an excellent means of doing this, but it was found to be unacceptable. I don’t have the money or the desire to purchase an additional device. I also feel that my $300 should have been sufficient to cover all fees for a self-appointed organisation.
Please also bear in mind that all of this is going on WHILE I am trying to ride 340km a day, with no support. 11-13hrs in the saddle leaves little time for admin or discussion.

As such, I was informed that I had been disqualified by HAMR – ironically, given I had not paid the $30 membership fee, I assume I was never actually registered to be disqualified anyway.

It is a shame – but it takes nothing away from my attempt. I feel that HAMR should be encouraging me, not providing road-blocks.

Thank you for understanding. And for taking the time to read this and also supporting me. It means a lot to me. The attempt will continue with Guinness providing validation.
Tommy Goodwin probably owes HAMR $300 too
wink emoticon


Not saying he's right, but I think there is a rationale there.  Wait and see what Guiness say, I think...
'Accumulating kilometres in the roughest road conditions'...

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #520 on: 21 January, 2016, 12:08:11 pm »
No-one knows how volatile internet media are. Strava kudos may evaporate at some point, and the record books will live on.
I'm surprised that there's no Pathe News footage of Tommy Godwin. They seemed fixated on women professionals, so Eileen Sheridan puts in a couple of appearances, most memorably in this piece. http://www.britishpathe.com/video/housewife-cyclist/query/Eileen+Sheridan
Place to Place records became unfashionable for most. I still like them, and Eileen still has a few, 60 years later.

http://www.rra.org.uk/records%20place%20to%20place.html

Yes, these records, while they may seem 'parochial' in comparison to the globe trotting antics celebrated in the media nowadays, are still impressive. Plenty of scope for female riders to take on some challenges I would think... Maybe some fast audaxers or triathletes who would take on the male solo records too? (Don't look at me BTW  ;D)


These are the records that get reported in the papers, as when James Cracknell had a couple of attempts at the LEJOG. The Daily Mirror reported the new tandem record last year, under 'Weird News', which is the heading Steve was under. It seems to be where they put world records.  http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/british-pair-smash-tandem-world-5654858

Bruce had a couple of attempts at the LEJOGLE, which lacks RRA status and is a bit of a 'Look at Me' record.

Bruce's records all seem to have an element of that. Maybe he thinks that in today's "attention economy", getting eyeballs on cycling web site reports / Strava is all that matters?

It is rather curious his attitude towards bodies who would verify his attempts so they become actual records rather than just alleged world beating triumphs (according to Bruce and a few poorly researched articles).

Yes, all websites are transient. Does anyone remember or care how many likes they had on MySpace, for example? Strava is great - for now, but it'll be supplanted by someone else eventually. Even Guinness won't last for ever, but the credibility of the records held under their name is irrefutable (even if some of the records are bloody silly!). I do hope Bruce does actually get Guinness accreditation, even if it means starting again. He's obviously a very, very strong contender.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #521 on: 21 January, 2016, 12:15:20 pm »
I don't disbelieve Bruce, and I don't disbelieve Ben Rockett's LEJOGLE. The Wiki entry on LEJOG is instructive.

It starts with corporate 'cycling as the new golf'.

Quote
There are several annual mass participation cycle rides that go from Land's End to John O'Groats, the biggest of which is the Deloitte Ride Across Britain,[5] run by Threshold Sports. The Ride Across Britain takes over 800 riders the full length of Britain, taking 9 days and covering 969 miles (1,559 km), with each rider covering an average of 107 miles (172 km) per day. Overnight accommodation is provided in large, tented base camps, and all aspects of the ride are fully supported. Previous celebrity participants include GB rower and Olympic gold medallist James Cracknell and former England Rugby captain Lewis Moody.

The middle section is the real thing, properly observed.

Quote
The official Road Records Association record for rider on a conventional bicycle is 44 hours, 4 minutes and 20 seconds, set by Gethin Butler in 2001.[6] The record for cycling from Land's End to John o' Groats is held by Andy Wilkinson, who completed the journey in 41 hours, 4 minutes and 22 seconds on a Windcheetah recumbent tricycle.[7] A typical cycling time when not attempting shortest time is ten to fourteen days.

Ben Rockett represents the Strava approach.

Quote
Ben Rockett, a postgraduate student from the University of Bath became on 27 August 2010 the record holder for cycling from Land's End to John o' Groats and back again in 5 days, 21 hours and 8 minutes.

Then there's a charity 'Strictly Come Cycling' at the end.

[
Quote
8] From 1 to 4 March 2010, David Walliams, Jimmy Carr, Fearne Cotton, Miranda Hart, Patrick Kielty, Davina McCall and Russell Howard cycled in a team relay from John o' Groats to Land's End to raise money for Sport Relief.[9]

You can take you pick which is your kind of 'End to End'. It's interesting to consider which celebrity you'd sentence to doing the year. Jimmy Saville would have been ideal in his prime. John Bishop today perhaps.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land%27s_End_to_John_o%27_Groats#Cycling

IanDG

  • The p*** artist formerly known as 'Windy'
    • the_dandg_rouleur
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #522 on: 21 January, 2016, 12:17:36 pm »
No-one knows how volatile internet media are. Strava kudos may evaporate at some point, and the record books will live on.
I'm surprised that there's no Pathe News footage of Tommy Godwin. They seemed fixated on women professionals, so Eileen Sheridan puts in a couple of appearances, most memorably in this piece. http://www.britishpathe.com/video/housewife-cyclist/query/Eileen+Sheridan
Place to Place records became unfashionable for most. I still like them, and Eileen still has a few, 60 years later.

http://www.rra.org.uk/records%20place%20to%20place.html

Yes, these records, while they may seem 'parochial' in comparison to the globe trotting antics celebrated in the media nowadays, are still impressive. Plenty of scope for female riders to take on some challenges I would think... Maybe some fast audaxers or triathletes who would take on the male solo records too? (Don't look at me BTW  ;D)


These are the records that get reported in the papers, as when James Cracknell had a couple of attempts at the LEJOG. The Daily Mirror reported the new tandem record last year, under 'Weird News', which is the heading Steve was under. It seems to be where they put world records.  http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/british-pair-smash-tandem-world-5654858

Bruce had a couple of attempts at the LEJOGLE, which lacks RRA status and is a bit of a 'Look at Me' record.

Or maybe we just go out and ride for a personal challenge? The idea of a DIY audax is relatively new to me (first was in 2013) and getting from Lewis to an event is a rare undertaking, but I've been churning out 200km plus rides around the island since I moved here in 1998 - just for my own enjoyment.

(that attitude for the year record would be 'stretching' it tho')

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #523 on: 21 January, 2016, 12:21:53 pm »
From Bruce's FB:

[...]

Not saying he's right, but I think there is a rationale there.  Wait and see what Guiness say, I think...

FindMyFriends will not provide a retrievable track, just a current position for those who are connected via the Apple infrastructure and individually approved. It's a good system, but unsuitable as an independent verification of a GPS track, I believe. Strava Live Tracking applies to any Premium member, and can be seen by anyone following that athlete, so the security aspect is, at best, debatable (Bruce's Strava account is open to anyone to follow) - and, of course, it uses the same source as the recorded Strava track, so again is probably unacceptable.

I'm still intrigued by the Guinness reference; it would now appear that he already had Guinness validating the attempt before he approached UMCA. Assuming that's for real (and, as his Week and Month 'records' have still not appeared on the Guinness site, I have my doubts), why bother with UMCA?

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #524 on: 21 January, 2016, 12:29:44 pm »
FindMyFriends will not provide a retrievable track, just a current position for those who are connected via the Apple infrastructure and individually approved. It's a good system, but unsuitable as an independent verification of a GPS track, I believe. Strava Live Tracking applies to any Premium member, and can be seen by anyone following that athlete, so the security aspect is, at best, debatable (Bruce's Strava account is open to anyone to follow) - and, of course, it uses the same source as the recorded Strava track, so again is probably unacceptable.

The Strava's Active Friends feature should respect his privacy zones though, but it doesn't provide a log, and it's public (hmm, may not be, I can't find it and I'm not a Premium member). I don't think the source being Strava (the same as the recording tool) is a problem. It's the lack of the log that is the main problem (to UMCA) and the lack of privacy (for Bruce).

Bruce also seems unaware that he could turn the SPOT tracker off when not riding, and/or only turn it on when far enough away from his home. It's a bit of a faff though I agree and easily forgotten.

His rides on Garmin Connect are giving away his base location anyway (as he has no privacy zones setup there), but not in real time.

Regardless of the technology used Bruce doesn't want the public to be able to see where is in (near) real time, and I think the UMCA require that. So unless one budges they'll never be able to work it out.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."