[HAMR] New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1

[zigzag]

yes, there are many ways to cheat, but the way Bruce rides at the moment i have full respect and admiration of his physical and mental ability. he's not using (afaik) tri-bars, which makes riding such distances so much harder - due to aero disadvantage and increased pressure on hands - this is how Tommy did the record too. plus, he currently rides almost self-sufficiently without a support team around. too early to forecast, but i wish him all the best and looking forward to sharing some miles when he's back in the uk.

the above is not to say that i agree with Bruce's decision to do it his own independent way; i'd prefer he's gone through "agency" for the sake of "official" approval.

[mrcharly-YHT]

How can one win a race if they are not entered?

By repeating, loudly, that you not only entered, but won.

Bruce is doing exactly this with his claims to hold two Guinness records (which, bizarrely, people are accepting without any proof) and claiming to be being 'officiated' (his quote marks) by Guinness in a highest annual mileage attempt.

[clarion]

I was interested to note the comments in the forum someone linked to about Guinness planning to adopt UMCA records.  That might be an interesting move, though it could just cause confusion, and the monopoly position may make it prohibitive.

[Exit Stage Left]

Guinness list lots of records that aren't valued by them, all the Olympic and Athletic records for instance. Armstrong would have been credited with a record number of wins of the Tour de France.
The UMCA 24 hour unpaced record is the 'official' Guinness one. If the record is from a credible source, they acknowledge it.

[TimC]

yes, there are many ways to cheat, but the way Bruce rides at the moment i have full respect and admiration of his physical and mental ability. he's not using (afaik) tri-bars, which makes riding such distances so much harder - due to aero disadvantage and increased pressure on hands - this is how Tommy did the record too. plus, he currently rides almost self-sufficiently without a support team around. too early to forecast, but i wish him all the best and looking forward to sharing some miles when he's back in the uk.

the above is not to say that i agree with Bruce's decision to do it his own independent way; i'd prefer he's gone through "agency" for the sake of "official" approval.

Are you suggesting that in some way Steve took the easy way out by using tri-bars? Or Kurt did by being in the US? Or that Bruce is by being (for now) in Australia and avoiding the UK winter?

Bruce is being a fool for not getting his riding independently verified, and he's undermined faith in him by claiming records which have not been ratified.

[zigzag]

not suggesting anything, i have my personal opinion about things. use of tribars is one of the quick-wins and i'm surprised Bruce isn't taking this advantage. the attempts will be always difficult to compare unless they are done under the exact same conditions and circumstances. if Bruce does the highest mileage (without taking a mick!!) any subsequent attempt will have to look up to that mileage.

[Tigerrr]

I was really worried with Steve gone, and the outpouring of unanimous goodwill that has provoked, that the level of rancour on YACF might drop to blandness. What a relief to find it hasn't. Go Bruce!

[simonp]

Tribars aren't something you can just put on your bike and ride faster.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Tribars aren't something you can just put on your bike and ride faster.

I guess you are thinking of the level of adaption required when using them for long periods.

[simonp]

Tribars aren't something you can just put on your bike and ride faster.

I guess you are thinking of the level of adaption required when using them for long periods.

That, plus it requires other position changes. I tried just putting tri bars on my audax fixie for riding a 12h TT and it caused big comfort issues when I tried it out. Solved by a set forward seat post but this resulted in a very odd position when on the hoods or drops.

[TimC]

not suggesting anything, i have my personal opinion about things. use of tribars is one of the quick-wins and i'm surprised Bruce isn't taking this advantage. the attempts will be always difficult to compare unless they are done under the exact same conditions and circumstances. if Bruce does the highest mileage (without taking a mick!!) any subsequent attempt will have to look up to that mileage.

As Bruce has trumpeted the fact of riding with Team Sky and others already (and I'll bet he wasn't on the front), I doubt he feels the need for any other aerodynamic assistance - and you can't ride tri-bars in a group.

Each rider has taken steps within the rules (for a certain value of rules, in Bruce's case) to adapt their bikes and riding to the conditions they face and the way they wish to ride. Of the three, Steve has given himself the hardest task by choosing to ride in UK through the winter, as Kurt acknowledged directly, and as Bruce is acknowledging by being in Australia and avoiding the problem altogether. The fact that Steve used tri-bars is neither here nor there.

[Wobbly]

Tribars aren't something you can just put on your bike and ride faster.

I did think about sticking some on the Pashley. 

[zigzag]

not suggesting anything, i have my personal opinion about things. use of tribars is one of the quick-wins and i'm surprised Bruce isn't taking this advantage. the attempts will be always difficult to compare unless they are done under the exact same conditions and circumstances. if Bruce does the highest mileage (without taking a mick!!) any subsequent attempt will have to look up to that mileage.

As Bruce has trumpeted the fact of riding with Team Sky and others already (and I'll bet he wasn't on the front), I doubt he feels the need for any other aerodynamic assistance - and you can't ride tri-bars in a group.

Each rider has taken steps within the rules (for a certain value of rules, in Bruce's case) to adapt their bikes and riding to the conditions they face and the way they wish to ride. Of the three, Steve has given himself the hardest task by choosing to ride in UK through the winter, as Kurt acknowledged directly, and as Bruce is acknowledging by being in Australia and avoiding the problem altogether. The fact that Steve used tri-bars is neither here nor there.

tough winter conditions is the most significant factor preventing higher mileage, that's why i have my utmost respect for Steve. other factors also have substantial impact, especially with the compound effect over a year. any competitor is leaving potential miles on the table if they don't use the rules to their advantage.

[TimC]

Indeed. But what are the rules Bruce is working to?

[zigzag]

for me one rule that trumps them all is to ride your bike as far as possible in 365 days with honesty and integrity. it is ambiguous, but sufficient.

[mustgettaller]

Oh dear, CTC have managed to not read the road.cc article properly! This is what they say in their 'cycleclips' email sent out a few minutes ago.

Year-record contender disqualified as feat brandished 'too dangerous'

Bruce Berkley is trying to take on the year record that others like Steve Abraham have also been gunning for this year (but Steve has now sadly withdrawn his attempt). The fly in the ointment is that his verification body, the Ultramarathon Cycling Association thinks the challenge is too dangerous, breaks their rules and is therefore disqualifying his attempt. With a name like the UCA, you'd think this challenge is right up their street! Maybe Berkley should set up a rival 'Ubermarathon Cycling Association'?

My bold where they link to http://road.cc/content/news/175539-bruce-berkeley-disqualified-year-record-attempt where there is mention of Guinness thinking it's too dangerous (as has been discussed upthread).

This will nicely muddy (or stir) the waters for CTC members. 

[madcow]

The CTC has a history of muddying the waters for  its members .

[mustgettaller]

The CTC has a history of muddying the waters for  its members .

Suffice to say I'm only a member for the insurance. 

[DaveE128]

Tribars aren't something you can just put on your bike and ride faster.

I guess you are thinking of the level of adaption required when using them for long periods.

That, plus it requires other position changes. I tried just putting tri bars on my audax fixie for riding a 12h TT and it caused big comfort issues when I tried it out. Solved by a set forward seat post but this resulted in a very odd position when on the hoods or drops.

Indeed. I note that Kajsa is using an interesting dual-position seatpost, presumably to allow her to switch on and off the tri-bars in comfort.

[clarion]

That's exactly why.  She demonstrated that in a video.

[mrcharly-YHT]

for me one rule that trumps them all is to ride your bike as far as possible in 365 days with honesty and integrity. it is ambiguous, but sufficient.

Difficult to verify, there is a history of people faking it, and (more recently) a history of people making mistakes and recording the wrong distances (this happened to both Miles and Kurt).

FFS, what is so hard about getting a SPOT tracker and using it?

[Grandad]

Oh dear, CTC have managed to not read the road.cc article properly!

I had already e-mailed them to point this out.  Not the usual person doing the weekly post today.

[red marley]

I had done the same. I suspect we won't have been the only ones correcting them today. 

[zigzag]

for me one rule that trumps them all is to ride your bike as far as possible in 365 days with honesty and integrity. it is ambiguous, but sufficient.

Difficult to verify, there is a history of people faking it, and (more recently) a history of people making mistakes and recording the wrong distances (this happened to both Miles and Kurt).

FFS, what is so hard about getting a SPOT tracker and using it?

regarding faking - i don't see Bruce as someone who would be doing it (unless i'm proven otherwise)*. yes, i would prefer he used a spot tracker, but he gave his reasons for not willing to use it (unfounded, imo, but that's his excuse, valid or not). he stated that he will be going for this challenge before, in 2015, and now walking(cycling) his talk. wishing him all the best!

*if it was Kim or Greenbank going for the record i'd want all the possible proof (joking!!!)

[red marley]

regarding faking - i don't see Bruce as someone who would be doing it (unless i'm proven otherwise)

I don't think anyone has ever suggested he would fake his results. But having a different set of validation rules depending on whether the competitor is seen as trustworthy or not clearly wouldn't work. As with almost all records, relying on a third party to remove (or at least reduce) doubts about the authenticity of an achievement seems a better solution.