[HAMR] New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1

[Exit Stage Left]

Records are funny things. There are plenty of stories of TT records being broken in club events. Chris Boardman was reported breaking the 10 record prior to his 1994 TdF debut. But those aren't records, they're training runs for events that are properly recorded.

The club event records are anecdotal, and to me Strava is a digital anecdote.

[TimC]

I don't for a minute think Bruce is likely to cheat in any way, but if his riding isn't accredited at the time (i.e. from day 1), it can't be done after the event. Therefore there will always be doubt over his claims, and no record book will carry his name. Surely to only point in breaking a record is to have your name recorded as the new record holder? That ain't going to happen. So what is the point?

[zigzag]

regarding faking - i don't see Bruce as someone who would be doing it (unless i'm proven otherwise)

I don't think anyone has ever suggested he would fake his results. But having a different set of validation rules depending on whether the competitor is seen as trustworthy or not clearly wouldn't work. As with almost all records, relying on a third party to remove (or at least reduce) doubts about the authenticity of an achievement seems a better solution.

it definitely is a better solution. what i am trying to say is that in Bruce's case, if he succeeds, the absence of umca or guinness validation will not negate the miles he'll have ridden. a very long way to go still..

[TimC]

Records are funny things. There are plenty of stories of TT records being broken in club events. Chris Boardman was reported breaking the 10 record prior to his 1994 TdF debut. But those aren't records, they're training runs for events that are properly recorded.

The club event records are anecdotal, and to me Strava is a digital anecdote.

A record 'broken' outside the rules and visibility of the accredited organisation isn't a record. Never has been. Training runs don't count, howsoever recorded. They needn't be anecdotal, as such - they can be accurately recorded - but if they're not under the purview of the relevant organisation, they won't count. The thing is, they'll never get mentioned in any subsequent list of who did what. I'm sure, for instance, that the British men's 4-man pursuit team have broken the World Record many times in training, but it's worthless because it doesn't satisfy the qualifying rules for breaking World Records. It undoubtedly has happened, and been accurately measured, but it'll never be in the history books. Nor will Bruce.

[Freya]

No matter how much you trust him to genuinely record what he believes he has ridden (& I do find the Guinness claims a bit disturbing). How can you be sure that he isn't making a genuine error. Miles seemed convinced that he'd done a month of 400k days when he had actually done nothing of the sort.

[notlobgp14]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/archive/it-is-the-mercy-donald-crowhursts-log-17852&ved=0ahUKEwiLk5eO-r3KAhVIPxQKHTW1DfYQFggoMAQ&usg=AFQjCNHA94wgklRxfnLV5quDvxzVgQmcVQ

I'm not sure if the above will work, Google 'Donald Crowhurst'

If there's room for fakery......

[mattc]

The CTC has a history of muddying the waters for  its members .

Suffice to say I'm only a member for the insurance. 

Oh dear, another CTC-bashing outbreak ...

Mistakes happen. Ive just read a UMCA statement about a Phil WhiteHORSE on Steves team, and the HAND-cycle that Steve used whilst setting his 2015 record!

[Ian H]

Oh dear, another CTC-bashing outbreak ...

Off-topic, but there are many people who mourn the passing of the Cyclists' Touring Club.  Including Mr Bedstead.

[Phil W]

The CTC has a history of muddying the waters for  its members .

Suffice to say I'm only a member for the insurance. 

Oh dear, another CTC-bashing outbreak ...

Mistakes happen. Ive just read a UMCA statement about a Phil WhiteHORSE on Steves team, and the HAND-cycle that Steve used whilst setting his 2015 record!

I know, going to have to get my name changed by deedpoll.

[Greenbank]

Bruce's surname also misspelt in the Cycleclips snippet. Just how many errors can you pack in to 4 sentences.

[mustgettaller]

The CTC has a history of muddying the waters for  its members .

Suffice to say I'm only a member for the insurance. 

Oh dear, another CTC-bashing outbreak ...

Mistakes happen. Ive just read a UMCA statement about a Phil WhiteHORSE on Steves team, and the HAND-cycle that Steve used whilst setting his 2015 record!

Ha ha! I agree. I'm stopping there with my CTC criticism. Oh dear...

[mustgettaller]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/archive/it-is-the-mercy-donald-crowhursts-log-17852&ved=0ahUKEwiLk5eO-r3KAhVIPxQKHTW1DfYQFggoMAQ&usg=AFQjCNHA94wgklRxfnLV5quDvxzVgQmcVQ

I'm not sure if the above will work, Google 'Donald Crowhurst'

If there's room for fakery......

I wondered, with the discussion on this thread, when Donald Crowhurst would make an appearance. A very sad story - shows what happens when the event/pressure take over, underpinned by mental illness. Robin Knox-Johnston donated his prize money to Donald's widow. Quite moving.

[mattc]

Bruce's surname also misspelt in the Cycleclips snippet. Just how many errors can you pack in to 4 sentences.

And your comment on the UMCA statement?

(is it CTC or UMCA that are validating these rides?!? )

[Greenbank]

Bruce's surname also misspelt in the Cycleclips snippet. Just how many errors can you pack in to 4 sentences.

And your comment on the UMCA statement?

Already covered by other people, no need to repeat them.

[redfalo]

I have to say, I find the explanation Bruce gave on Facebook really weird. https://www.facebook.com/bruce.berkeley.1/posts/938139236274121?pnref=story

All this moaning about the cost ($300 HAM'R fee, $30 UMCA memebership fee, $200 for the tracker)  - given we are talking about a 12 month endeavour with no income earned and the need to feed yourself, these sums should really be small change. If someone finds it hard to finance these outlays, it may be worth rethinking the whole project.

[jochta]

I have to say, I find the explanation Bruce gave on Facebook really weird. https://www.facebook.com/bruce.berkeley.1/posts/938139236274121?pnref=story

All this moaning about the cost ($300 HAM'R fee, $30 UMCA memebership fee, $200 for the tracker)  - given we are talking about a 12 month endeavour with no income earned and the need to feed yourself, these sums should really be small change. If someone finds it hard to finance these outlays, it may be worth rethinking the whole project.

There are some staggeringly ill-informed comments on that post.

[Bianchi Boy]

I have to say, I find the explanation Bruce gave on Facebook really weird. https://www.facebook.com/bruce.berkeley.1/posts/938139236274121?pnref=story

All this moaning about the cost ($300 HAM'R fee, $30 UMCA memebership fee, $200 for the tracker)  - given we are talking about a 12 month endeavour with no income earned and the need to feed yourself, these sums should really be small change. If someone finds it hard to finance these outlays, it may be worth rethinking the whole project.

There are some staggeringly ill-informed comments on that post.

..... and he says he is getting verification from Guiness ? Really is he? I have read about these rules and if the UCMA was hard they are even harder. Like no drafting?
 
Is there some place with the rules for Guiness verification?

At the moment it looks like just a nice long bike ride.

BB

[crowriver]

Let's face it, Mr. Berkeley is bullshitting.

He's clearly a very strong rider, but compared to Kurt and Steve he is disorganised. No team, no support, and now no independent verification.

Still, the Strava massive, and it seems the cycling zines, will lap it up, presumably because of his former racing pedigree. He's the kind of cyclist the sportive riders dream about being.

If he manages to keep going with his "wing and a prayer" approach (who can tell?) then I imagine in a year's time there will be articles in the main sportive riders' zines waxing lyrical about Berkeley's "triple whammy":

- the week "record"
- the month "record"
- the year "record"

Then, a year after that, everyone will have forgotten about Mr. Berkeley and will have moved on to the Next Big Thing seeking its 15 minutes of fame.

[Greenbank]

AIUI he's going to present his evidence (Strava uploads and a few photos a day mostly) to Guinness after the ride and ask them to recognise it as a record.

In much the same way that he did this for the week and month records which he has claimed but which aren't listed on Guinness' website at all.

Good luck to him if this is his plan.

[crowriver]

AIUI he's going to present his evidence (Strava uploads and a few photos a day mostly) to Guinness after the ride and ask them to recognise it as a record.

In much the same way that he did this for the week and month records which he has claimed but which aren't listed on Guinness' website at all.

Good luck to him if this is his plan.

Yeah, it's weird this rather delusional blind spot in his approach.

As others have said, it must take a certain, highly unusual, degree of downright stubbornness to take on this momentous challenge. In Mr. Berkeley this appears to manifest itself as a rather ego driven cussedness, a bombast that is ultimately self defeating. He clearly wants to be recognised as the record holder, but can't be bothered with following rules or doing the necessary admin in order to gain "official" recognition. As such, despite heroic efforts, if he does exceed Kurt's mileage his "record" will remain unofficial, even if it is "recognised" in the popular cycling press, and amongst Strava users.

[wajcgac]

Bruce has made a couple of comments that suggest that he is aiming at some distance bizarrely lower than Kurt's new record.

Todays Strava upload, 333.5km stated 'And got the number done + extras' - Kurt averaged 335.4 km so how did he get the number done + extras ?

From his Twitter account he stated '3 weeks down - 301km up on target'

Compared to Kurt's final daily average of 335.4km for 21 days Bruce has averaged 342.3 km resulting in him being 144.9 km up on Kurt after 21 days.
Compared to Tommy's  final daily average of 331 km for 21 days Bruce has averaged 342.3 km resulting in him being 237.3 km up on Tommy after 21 days.

He could have course set a slightly different personal daily target (the number he refers to) for the first few weeks but it would be so close to the required daily average anyway that I can't see why he'd bother.

However, if he carries on the way he is by averaging over 212 miles (342.3 km) a day, lack of distance won't be the problem - just the small matter of making it official.

(edited for typo - Bruce is currently averaging over 212 miles a day not 221 miles)

[Freya]

I'm sensing another Miles TBH, albeit one who is very good at riding a bike

[clarion]

That would be even more tragic.

[teethgrinder]

If he wants his record to be recognised by Guinness, it is my understanding that Guinness will only accept claims via the UMCA, which is a very recent thing (as in less than a week), hence Kurt now also being the Guinness World Record holder.


Oooops.


Bruce said hello to me on PBP. He never mentioned he was going for the year record. He did look like a very strong rider though and I do wish him luck, regardless of his ride being official or not.

[SoreTween]

From his Twitter account he stated '3 weeks down - 301km up on target'

Compared to Kurt's final daily average of 335.4km for 21 days Bruce has averaged 342.3 km resulting in him being 144.9 km up on Kurt after 21 days.
Compared to Tommy's  final daily average of 331 km for 21 days Bruce has averaged 342.3 km resulting in him being 237.3 km up on Tommy after 21 days.

[pedant]
If Bruce sticks to his published plan he's riding a 363 day year at best.  Probably only makes a knats difference to the numbers this early but...
[/pedant]