Author Topic: [HAMR] New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1  (Read 165313 times)

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #850 on: 03 February, 2016, 09:30:13 am »
We get elite racers doing club time trials around here. They also ride 200s as training in the winter, in the same way as they ride 'reliabilities'. The documentation aspect of Strava enables coaches to assess their performance.
Bruce is an extreme example of an exemplar, showing what is possible.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #851 on: 03 February, 2016, 09:48:15 am »
Age and weight are self-reported stats. There are people who will happily mislead others to move up the rankings.

Not the only self-reported information:
One of Mrs Somnolent's QOMs was stolen by somebody who thought to move up the rankings by misleading others about his gender !  :o

I really don't understand this, the competition thing is a total red herring for example: https://www.strava.com/segments/8343695 I know a number on that list and am far and away the weakest rider, but on one day wind and traffic came together perfectly. Strava segments are primarily about wearing grooves in the road. The daily thing is entertaining in places when the usual suspects are leaving work a few mins apart, other than that its a nice logging tool that just works, unlike Garmin's software IME where for some reason it logs every ride 3 times and Garmin give their usual level of support.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #852 on: 03 February, 2016, 09:56:17 am »
I'd expect the vast majority of cyclists that have coaches to be using TrainingPeaks (non-free) rather than Strava.

Even Garmin Connect (free) is way way better than Strava's Premium technical analysis.

On the Social front, nothing comes close to Strava but many people only post to Strava because they use something like Tapiriik to sync their data across multiple sites.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #853 on: 03 February, 2016, 10:16:22 am »
Training Peaks complements Strava quite well, though I'm not sure it's worth paying for both (I do, because I can and I'm a nerd, but I also pay for Trainer Roads, Zwift and have only just given up on BKool!!). I don't get on with Connect and find it unreliably accessible, particularly if you have a less than stellar broadband facility, but when it's working it does provide reasonable analysis tools, though I wouldn't claim they're better than Strava Premium - you do need to get 'under the hood' a bit with Strava to discover the full range of analysis available.

I just need the ability to make it worthwhile. Which might possibly involve riding a bike rather more often than I do!

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #854 on: 03 February, 2016, 10:42:33 am »
Age and weight are self-reported stats. There are people who will happily mislead others to move up the rankings.

Not the only self-reported information:
One of Mrs Somnolent's QOMs was stolen by somebody who thought to move up the rankings by misleading others about his gender !  :o

There's more about Strava as only segments. The various monthly competitions regarding longest total distance, longest daily distance and most altitude gained are far more interesting for audaxers as chasing KOM's.
I really don't understand this, the competition thing is a total red herring for example: https://www.strava.com/segments/8343695 I know a number on that list and am far and away the weakest rider, but on one day wind and traffic came together perfectly. Strava segments are primarily about wearing grooves in the road. The daily thing is entertaining in places when the usual suspects are leaving work a few mins apart, other than that its a nice logging tool that just works, unlike Garmin's software IME where for some reason it logs every ride 3 times and Garmin give their usual level of support.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #855 on: 03 February, 2016, 10:43:02 am »
9pm and nothing posted for Bruce today. Usually posts around 7...

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #856 on: 03 February, 2016, 11:32:13 am »
Training Peaks complements Strava quite well, though I'm not sure it's worth paying for both (I do, because I can and I'm a nerd, but I also pay for Trainer Roads, Zwift and have only just given up on BKool!!). I don't get on with Connect and find it unreliably accessible, particularly if you have a less than stellar broadband facility, but when it's working it does provide reasonable analysis tools, though I wouldn't claim they're better than Strava Premium - you do need to get 'under the hood' a bit with Strava to discover the full range of analysis available.

It's more the accuracy of Strava that is the problem, it's slated on various different forums by good (e.g. Cat 1/2) cyclists. It's interpretation of power data (and specifically how it calculates the weighted averages) is seemingly random which is why many people prefer TrainingPeaks. The weighted average is key to calculating TSS and thence form/fitness (CTL/ATL). It's also hard to get out the key metrics such as 5s/1m/5m/20m peak power from a single ride, and impossible to plot these over time (which is where something like TP or even Golden Cheetah comes in).

Put simply: if you want a tool to help you make measurable improvements then Strava isn't the one. I guess most people don't realise what they are seeing isn't quite accurate, or they're happy with just seeing a bunch of numbers without the bits that are needed to help them improve.

The 'fitness and freshness' graph (Strava's take on TSS/CTL/ATL/etc) is rendered completely useless if you combine cycling with running as it doesn't take into account the running at all. It can't be used for planning either (unlike TP). I've got a far better CTL/ATL model in a simple google spreadsheet. Given Strava's graph is based on dodgy calculations of cycling training impact it's of dubious use to begin with, even if you're just using it for cycling. Other than this graph there's no other inter-activity graphing available. Want to plot average speed over time? Nope. Want to plot HRavg over time? Nope.

Strava's also dreadful at interpreting non-moving time when running (I've had a bug open with them for over a year that they've done nothing on and is just building up a huge list of other frustrated members who are not also renewing). Strava doesn't handle any of the modern metrics that are coming from the latest running devices, not that every single one of them is useful to the average runner but they should at least be able to display them. The pace graph for a run on Strava is horrible to read (due to the auto scaling) to the point that it's unusable. It's graphs, in general, aren't fine grained enough at all.

I'd do some side-by-side shots of individual activities but I didn't renew my Strava Premium membership.

The key is that if the tool is to be useful then either interpret the data correctly (which Garmin Connect seems to do fine) or allow a way to edit the data (which TP and Golden Cheetah do). Strava does neither and so you end up with the worst of both worlds.

Don't get me started on Strava's interpretation of swimming data, it's beyond laughable:-

Strava: https://www.strava.com/activities/465613915
GC: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1007469059

Anyway, this is beyond a digression now.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #857 on: 03 February, 2016, 01:50:03 pm »
Put simply: if you want a tool to help you make measurable improvements then Strava isn't the one. I guess most people don't realise what they are seeing isn't quite accurate, or they're happy with just seeing a bunch of numbers without the bits that are needed to help them improve.

The 'fitness and freshness' graph (Strava's take on TSS/CTL/ATL/etc) is rendered completely useless if you combine cycling with running as it doesn't take into account the running at all. It can't be used for planning either (unlike TP). I've got a far better CTL/ATL model in a simple google spreadsheet. Given Strava's graph is based on dodgy calculations of cycling training impact it's of dubious use to begin with, even if you're just using it for cycling. Other than this graph there's no other inter-activity graphing available. Want to plot average speed over time? Nope. Want to plot HRavg over time? Nope.

Have you tried http://veloviewer.com/ ?

Does provide some of the things you mention from your Strava data and it's only £10 a year I think. It's fun for data geekery and good for comparing your mileage progress through the year with previous years too.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #858 on: 03 February, 2016, 01:58:40 pm »
Anyway, this is beyond a digression now.

It is, but it's interesting and no-one's objected (yet) or moved it, so...

I've never used any online analysis for swimming, but I can understand why you'd find Strava inadequate for that. However, Strava is primarily a cyclist's tool - and, at that, really an amateur or clubman's tool. It certainly could be better at some things than it is, but I'd guess that the budget isn't, or hasn't been, there for much beyond the process of recording progress over the ground and collating that data for comparison with others. As I said, it works well in conjunction with TP, and I would certainly expect anyone with a coach to use TP, among other tools, and not simply rely on Strava. But many people can't afford to pay monthly fees for these sites and so have to settle for one; for most people, most of the time, Strava is fun, interesting and accurate enough on a casual level, and it succinctly enables you to compare stuff with your mates.

I could certainly see Strava developing a more professional product for competitive athletes (I'm amazed they haven't bought out Veloviewer yet), and they do need to better integrate running - and maybe swimming - into the current offering. If I were working on the software side for Garmin or TP, I'd be very concerned about what Strava might do next...

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #859 on: 03 February, 2016, 02:00:17 pm »
Put simply: if you want a tool to help you make measurable improvements then Strava isn't the one. I guess most people don't realise what they are seeing isn't quite accurate, or they're happy with just seeing a bunch of numbers without the bits that are needed to help them improve.

The 'fitness and freshness' graph (Strava's take on TSS/CTL/ATL/etc) is rendered completely useless if you combine cycling with running as it doesn't take into account the running at all. It can't be used for planning either (unlike TP). I've got a far better CTL/ATL model in a simple google spreadsheet. Given Strava's graph is based on dodgy calculations of cycling training impact it's of dubious use to begin with, even if you're just using it for cycling. Other than this graph there's no other inter-activity graphing available. Want to plot average speed over time? Nope. Want to plot HRavg over time? Nope.

Have you tried http://veloviewer.com/ ?

Does provide some of the things you mention from your Strava data and it's only £10 a year I think. It's fun for data geekery and good for comparing your mileage progress through the year with previous years too.
BTW VeloViewer and StravistiX make Strava data much more useful and interesting IMO.

I've not used Stravistics, but I'm a pro member of Veloviewer, which is a stats-nerd's nirvana!

Covered above...

simonp

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #860 on: 03 February, 2016, 02:37:48 pm »
The lack of a combined ATL/CTL score is a nuisance. Maybe I should look at TrainingPeaks again. It would be useful to be able to represent the rowing club training sessions.


hillbilly

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #861 on: 03 February, 2016, 04:17:16 pm »
Given that I had to Google ATL/CTL, I reckon I'll stick with Strava  :)

simonp

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #862 on: 03 February, 2016, 04:22:32 pm »
The TrainerRoad podcast explained a lot of the concepts. Particularly how IF is derived (it's basically NP divided by FTP) and TSS which is IF times duration in hours times 100.

ATL is basically how much short term fatigue you have and CTL how much accumulated training effect. The fitness and freshness scores on Strava are similar in concept.

All I really need is to know roughly what the TSS of my rowing sessions is.

red marley

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #863 on: 03 February, 2016, 04:41:03 pm »
9pm and nothing posted for Bruce today. Usually posts around 7...

Seriously, does anyone know what happened to Bruce yesterday?

It is one of the ironies of his Strava only approach that without live tracking or body to submit alternative data to, there is going to be little evidence of the ride for the record if it turns out to be a GPS problem.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #864 on: 03 February, 2016, 04:53:03 pm »
IIRC, he was only carrying a single Edge 1000. That leaves him very vulnerable to any gremlins.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #865 on: 03 February, 2016, 04:56:08 pm »
I remember Shu Pillinger had 3-4 garmins for her RAAM ride and she had LOADS of problems which is why so many bits of her rides were missing. (I know she had the time limit on her mind first and foremost)

hillbilly

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #866 on: 03 February, 2016, 06:24:03 pm »
The TrainerRoad podcast explained a lot of the concepts. Particularly how IF is derived (it's basically NP divided by FTP) and TSS which is IF times duration in hours times 100.

ATL is basically how much short term fatigue you have and CTL how much accumulated training effect. The fitness and freshness scores on Strava are similar in concept.

All I really need is to know roughly what the TSS of my rowing sessions is.

WTF, OMG. LOL.

slope

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Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #867 on: 03 February, 2016, 06:47:16 pm »
The TrainerRoad podcast explained a lot of the concepts. Particularly how IF is derived (it's basically NP divided by FTP) and TSS which is IF times duration in hours times 100.

ATL is basically how much short term fatigue you have and CTL how much accumulated training effect. The fitness and freshness scores on Strava are similar in concept.

All I really need is to know roughly what the TSS of my rowing sessions is.

WTF, OMG. LOL.

 :thumbsup: And back to Bruce's efforts regardless of how we judge another

AND the SUBJECT of the THREAD TITLE

PLEASE?

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
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Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #868 on: 03 February, 2016, 07:14:14 pm »
IIRC, he was only carrying a single Edge 1000. That leaves him very vulnerable to any gremlins.

Bruce is clearly a man with a very large flock of laying hens and only one basket.
Quote from: Dez
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Bianchi Boy

  • Cycling is my doctor
  • Is it possible for a ride to be too long?
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Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #869 on: 03 February, 2016, 08:36:30 pm »
Last cycle_dr1 twitter post Jan 31st - hope he is OK.

BB
Set a fire for a man and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #870 on: 03 February, 2016, 11:22:25 pm »
IIRC, he was only carrying a single Edge 1000. That leaves him very vulnerable to any gremlins.

You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #871 on: 04 February, 2016, 06:37:48 am »
Last cycle_dr1 twitter post Jan 31st - hope he is OK.

BB

At least he's got the month record again :demon:

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #872 on: 04 February, 2016, 06:45:48 am »
I dont see a ride for wednesday on strava. Am I missing something?
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #873 on: 04 February, 2016, 12:53:18 pm »
I dont see a ride for wednesday on strava. Am I missing something?

No uploads for 2 days now. Wonder what's up.

Re: New challenger - Bruce Berkeley AKA Cycle_dr 1
« Reply #874 on: 04 February, 2016, 02:25:53 pm »
His tweets haven't been making the Canyon Bikes page, which tends to suggest that he's not garnering enough interest. https://twitter.com/canyon_bikes