Cyclist who knocked down and killed pensioner

[Ian H]

In this particular case the pedestrian walked into the side of the passing peloton.  That's akin to walking into the side of a passing car, with the same implication of lack of awareness.  As to blame, I'm not going to second-guess the court verdict.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

Saw a cyclist hit by a jaywalker.  They fell against the side of a moving bus and the pedestrian ran off. 

My last close encounter with a ped also involved a bus. I was cycling along the cycle lane next to a stationary bus, the ped was crossing in front of the bus, nowhere near any kind of crossing point.  He never looked for a bicycle. Somehow I was able to stop, my back wheel leaving the ground and trying to overtake the front. Managing, just to avoid falling over I eyeballed the ped who was clearly about to offer abuse and who then thought, no maybe not this time..

Clearly pedestrians should carry number plates and have insurance.

[andyoxon]

In any event, it's highly doubtful that the logistics of enforcing a speed limit for cyclists would be possible, given the majority of cyclists are unlikely to have a speedometer, & there would need to be a calibrated device display installed on millions of cycles?

That seems relevant politically, but not legally.  Speeding in a motor vehicle is an offence whether you look at your speedometer or not.  Overloading your car will be an offence regardless of whether you have some kind of weighbridge on your driveway.  It's perfectly possible for the law to be rewritten to nick cyclists for speeding.  Not having speedos doesn't present some kind of impregnable "gotcha".

Personally, I don't think in general it looks very reasonable to cycle above the motor vehicle speed limit.  Yes we are lighter and smaller, but still subject to the same limits of reaction time and distractability, and our braking is often poorer than that of a car.

In the UK, cyclist speeding (cycle speed limits) wouldn't be enforceable IMO.  Drivers may choose not to look at their speedometer, and still be guilty of speeding, but the fact remains the speedo is required to be fitted, functional, & visible by law, for drivers of multi-ton vehicles (capable of massive damage) to check, and drive safely...   No real problem cycling at above 20mph (not that I do often) in a 20 mph limit, as long as it's safe.

[Mr Larrington]

A LOL managed to slip through the barriers lining the closed streets of Darlington town centre for a series of criterium races and started across the road oblivious both to the yells of the marshals and the racers approaching at up to 30 mph.  Fortunately for her, it was my nice smooth faired Kingcycle that hit her rather than Mike Weaver's unfaired machine – with all sorts of nasty sharp spikey things sticking out the front* – just ahead of me, so she was at least physically undamaged.

* this being before the BHPC had rules pertaining to chainring protection.

[Kim]

In the UK, cyclist speeding (cycle speed limits) wouldn't be enforceable IMO.  Drivers may choose not to look at their speedometer, and still be guilty of speeding, but the fact remains the speedo is required to be fitted, functional, & visible by law, for drivers of multi-ton vehicles (capable of massive damage) to check, and drive safely...

The speedometer thing's a red herring, IMHO.  Not all motor vehicles are required to have one, and their drivers are still required to conform to the speed limit.

[rogerzilla]

Steam locomotives rarely had speedometers until the 1930s, yet drivers were expected to observe strict speed limits for curves, crossovers, etc, and to arrive on time.

[Gattopardo]

The correct response to anyone quoting the Daily Mail is 'Oh, that's the paper that supported Hitler'.

Daily hate or the daily Zig hiel.

[Gattopardo]

My motorbike mate though it was amusing that a cyclist 'under took' him while travelling at 20 mph.  The fact the cyclist was going above 20mph unassisted and though it was a wow pedl power moment but the comments show the hate towards cyclists.

Teaches me that people are utter shit streaks.

[andyoxon]

Steam locomotives rarely had speedometers until the 1930s, yet drivers were expected to observe strict speed limits for curves, crossovers, etc, and to arrive on time.

Yes, there seem to be/ have been exceptions (including professional loco drivers), but the vast majority of 10s of millions of modern motor vehicles in the UK are required to have speedometers & drivers observe speed limits, but not the millions of cyclists - for good reason.   Clearly cyclists still have a duty of care / need to cycle safely to conditions.  e.g. presence of other vulnerable road users etc.  Still think cyclist speed limits would be an unecessary 'smokescreen'...

-A day in cycle speed limit Britain?
>do you realise what speed you [* any age/type of cyclist] were cycling at down this hill
>sorry no idea, not cycled for a while.
>24mph. NIP'll be in the post soon, if it's any consolation the driver of that Kia EV9 has just been issued with one too...

[tom_e]

Speeding is considered "strict liability" in law.  This means that not knowing you were speeding, or doing it by accident, are not defences.  If you have a broken speedometer then you may be committing an additional offence, but it doesn't change the speeding one.

Yes, the current law doesn't make speeding illegal for bikes.  But there is nothing stopping a government from changing that law other than politics.  Fitting a speedometer is neither here nor there (and the cyclists in this specific case would have had them).

[T42]

But there is nothing stopping a government from changing that law other than politics.

There's nothing stopping a government from making torn jeans illegal other than politics.

[andyoxon]

Speeding is considered "strict liability" in law.  This means that not knowing you were speeding, or doing it by accident, are not defences.  If you have a broken speedometer then you may be committing an additional offence, but it doesn't change the speeding one.

Yes, the current law doesn't make speeding illegal for bikes.  But there is nothing stopping a government from changing that law other than politics.  Fitting a speedometer is neither here nor there (and the cyclists in this specific case would have had them).

Presumably it's only due to the fact that motors vehicles (in general etc) are required in law to have working speedometers fitted as standard, that the strict liability offence is enforceable /seen as a fair & acceptable approach given seriousness, to cover the 'it was broken/ service booked to get it fixed/was distracted/sun glare meant it was unreadable...  Perhaps in part a 'political' decision, but the factors pertaining are not purely 'political' e.g. relative capacity of road users to cause damage, expense of implementing & enforcing, resources available, fairness etc...

[Gattopardo]

What, are you telling that police officers don't have calibrated eyes for catching speeding.

[Beardy]

Have I got it wrong that the pedestrian stepped off the pavement  and into the path of a cycle being ridden on the road? I know that the facts are somewhat irrelevant in an emotional discussion like this, and often completely ignored when reported by the scandal rags, but I do like to consider the details.

Yes, cyclist have a duty of care towards other road users, but the same is true, no matter how much the Daily Heil readership would like it not to be, of other road users to cyclist. Yes, I do count a pedestrian as an other road user.

I’ll be back under my bridge should you want me.

[peter simplex]

Yes, cyclist have a duty of care towards other road users, but the same is true, no matter how much the Daily Heil readership would like it not to be, of other road users to cyclist. Yes, I do count a pedestrian as an other road user.

Why single out  the Daily Mail ? [ the Daily Heil, oh so funny and witty, you are one...] It has reported on a case in the Coroner's Court in West London, along with several other newspapers and has given free rein to the son of the Mrs Hilda Griffiths [who reportedly had 'early signs of dementia' and who had no probate issued following her death afaics....]  to spout his anti-cycling rant which seems to have already been conveniently and amazingly coincidentally teed up by his mother [see below] shortly beforehand. He then to do a tour of the radio and TV stations, each of which is equally guilty of fanning the anti-cycling flames, by campaigning for changes to the law.  Very convenient.
Exhibit: The Sunday Telegraph May 5 2024
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-sunday-telegraph/20240505/281741274501175

Just days before....."those bloody cyclists are getting worse" she told her son...."She was right, with 35 or more cycling clubs with hundreds of members in the park, it was only a matter of time before tragic outcomes occurred" he told the inquest speaking from his home in Marylebone central London.... ‘I firmly believe my mother was killed by the culture of cycling that has grown up around Regent’s Park over the last few years"

I somehow don't think we have seen the end of this.

[ravenbait]

What does it mean that no probate has been issued?

Sam

[Ian H]

[ the Daily Heil, oh so funny and witty, you are one...]

It's a way of avoiding name-checking the grubby rag in a searchable forum.

[Goldcrank]

Saw a cyclist hit by a jaywalker. 

"jaywalker" is a pejorative term for "human being who has the temerity to walk"

There is no such term in the UK

[Regulator]

Saw a cyclist hit by a jaywalker. 

"jaywalker" is a pejorative term for "human being who has the temerity to walk"

There is no such term in the UK

And no such offence either...

I hate it when people talk about 'jaywalkers'. 

Pedestrians have a legal right to use the highway, as do cyclists and horseriders.  Motorists do not, which is why they are required to be licensed and insured, and are subject to specific controls when they do so.

[rogerzilla]

What does it mean that no probate has been issued?

Sam

It could mean many things:

1. No need (assets are sufficiently small)
2. Haven't got around to it yet, or stuck in the system
3. Died intestate, or will is being contested

I'm not sure what the context is here.