[LEL17] Insurance for overseas riders

[Moleman76]

From the LEL 2017 website:

"Overseas residents must arrange their own third party insurance.
"When you register on 29 or 30 July 2017, we will ask you to sign a written declaration that you have at least £1 million of third party insurance cover. If this level of cover is not available where you live, please contact us."

I understand this is liability insurance.  I have yet to find a UK insurance source which sells cyclist liability insurance to non-UK residents. 
As a US resident / citizen, I understand (at least that's how it was handled 8 years ago) that my US automobile insurance policy covered me when operating a rented motor vehicle in the UK.
Over here,  one's home owner's (or renter's) insurance, if it covers liability, covers whatever I might perpetrate on a bicycle.

I will ask my insurer if this stretches across the ocean -- but, would be interested in hearing from others how they are planning to handle this.
Does LEL have any specific coverage text in mind?  [ An insurance broker friend of mine used to say "our policies cover you 100% unless you are alone or with someone" ]

[Ripio]

Travel insurance?

[The French Tandem]

Just make sure you tell your insurance company that LEL is not a race. Riders are assumed to be on a personal excursion on open public roads. I can't cite the source, but I'm sure it is written somewhere in the rules. This is how we got our car insurance company to cover us. Have we entered a race, they would not have covered us.

[Fidgetbuzz]

3rd party insurance is a sensible cover to have in place.

UK residents will be picked up by AUKs insurance.. but this cover can not be extended to non residents (  even if they are AUK members)

We STRONGLY recommend all overseas residents to ensure that they are 3rd party risk covered .. this may  be done by an ordinary holiday travel cover.. although the level of  3rd party cover may be less than the suggested £1M.

Looking back at 2013 .. first of all .. there were no incidents that I am aware of that resulted in a 3rd party claim. We tried to ensure that all riders had some level of cover .. but in reality it was impracticable to verify this.

Consider also .. if you are an overseas resident .. what current level of cover do you have in your own country when you go out for a ride .. do you have any cover at all or do you take the view that you will be self insured.

For 2017 .  you are told to ensure that you have  3rd party cover .. and when you sign on you will be declaring that you do have this cover in place .. but we will not be  inspecting your insurance cover document

[L.Lagopus]

From the LEL 2017 website:

"Overseas residents must arrange their own third party insurance.
"When you register on 29 or 30 July 2017, we will ask you to sign a written declaration that you have at least £1 million of third party insurance cover. If this level of cover is not available where you live, please contact us."

I understand this is liability insurance.  I have yet to find a UK insurance source which sells cyclist liability insurance to non-UK residents. 
As a US resident / citizen, I understand (at least that's how it was handled 8 years ago) that my US automobile insurance policy covered me when operating a rented motor vehicle in the UK.
Over here,  one's home owner's (or renter's) insurance, if it covers liability, covers whatever I might perpetrate on a bicycle.

I will ask my insurer if this stretches across the ocean -- but, would be interested in hearing from others how they are planning to handle this.
Does LEL have any specific coverage text in mind?  [ An insurance broker friend of mine used to say "our policies cover you 100% unless you are alone or with someone" ]

Also from the U.S. For 2013 I emailed my insurance agent and asked if my home-owner's policy would provide the necessary cover. I even included a link to the LEL website in the email, so there could be no dispute about whether the insurance company knew about the nature of the event.  They replied that I would be covered.

[thing1]

Also resident of USA.
I have umbrella insurance policy that tops up both car and home to provide additional liability insurance. This has been useful before when eg renting a large cabin for a group and they want evidence of $2M liability insurance.

[Lotum]

Here's what I posted on here on January 10, 2013... perhaps it's worth repeating:

“Not wishing to add to the ”fluff”, but I did some googling, and it seems that there are companies willing to sell travel insurance with at least a reasonably adequate public liability cover also to international riders. Here's an interesting site:

http://travellingtwo.com/resources/insurance-for-bicycle-tours

Of the companies listed there, I checked worldwideinsure.com, and they offer a travel insurance policy (covering, among other sports, 'recreational cycling') to EU residents with a public liability cover of £2M (excess £100). This is but one example. Okay, it's not £5M, but it's comparatively close [the organizers insisted on a £5M cover, at least initially, in 2013].”

It appears that worldwideinsure.com is still in business, and they still offer a similar policy.

[ramchip]

I live between the UK and Spain although for my Audax membership I have used my Spanish address. If I change  my Audax membership to my UK address then am I covered for LEL?

[Fidgetbuzz]

I have just re asked AUK to provide details of the actual claims made in the UK against their policy for the last 3 years. I am trying to provide riders with some info about the frequency and magnitude of claims .. my feeling is that there are very few and any actually made are for small sums .. lets see whether my feeling is right or not.

[Fidgetbuzz]

I live between the UK and Spain although for my Audax membership I have used my Spanish address. If I change  my Audax membership to my UK address then am I covered for LEL?

I think you would have to prove UK residence genuinely and not just a change of address ( not sure what correct legal definition of .. genuinely...... means in this sentence ) .. otherwise all overseas riders could claim to be UK residents if they stayed the night before the event in a B & B.

If this is a matter that you need sorting .. then you will have to take it up with AUK , it is their policy, .. your contact would be     secretary@audax.uk

[hellymedic]

I have just re asked AUK to provide details of the actual claims made in the UK against their policy for the last 3 years. I am trying to provide riders with some info about the frequency and magnitude of claims .. my feeling is that there are very few and any actually made are for small sums .. lets see whether my feeling is right or not.

Surely the point is that the potential for massive claims exists and that's why insurance is needed.

I have never claimed on travel insurance and my return travel to an hotel is hardly a high-risk activity.

There is still the possibility of a car crash, major injury, hospitalisation, prolonged rehabilitation or the need for repatriation.

Newspapers have frequent sob stories about those who didn't take out travel insurance and befell a very costly misfortune.

[Fidgetbuzz]

Helly I am only trying to provide info for overseas riders .. so that they are better informed. Personally i do not think that cyclists are a likely source for UK substantial  3rd party claims.. travel and medical insurance is different in my opinion. i suspect that many overseas riders do not have 3rd party cover at home .. OK the courts in these countries may well not  hand out enormous awards for 3rd party claims.. but some knowledge of AUK experience may help them assess the Uk risk that they might choose to take on.

[jsabine]

I have just re asked AUK to provide details of the actual claims made in the UK against their policy for the last 3 years. I am trying to provide riders with some info about the frequency and magnitude of claims .. my feeling is that there are very few and any actually made are for small sums .. lets see whether my feeling is right or not.

I'm not aware of any claims at all in the last couple of years under the AUK policy, though I believe there may have been one (maybe two) in the couple of years before that.

*However*, this is not at all a useful piece of information, as the AUK policy is one of last resort, and only kicks in if the rider has no other insurance. If they have 3rd party cover through their home insurance, through CTC/BC/LCC membership, from any other source, then the claim will go through that insurer instead.

[Fidgetbuzz]

Curious .. although I understand the point .. I did not think insurers could do that .. if two insurers are both covering the same risk .. then i thought that they had to split the cost of any claim between them on  a pro rata basis to the maximum cover  that they are providing. I can not see how an insurer can decide on the price to charge for cover .. if their risk depends on whether or not the claimant happens to have cover for that incident elsewhere .. which they do not know about.  i wonder whether this is just a mutual agreement between insurers .. I'll take claim 1 , you take claim 2, etc .. simplifies admin.

[Fidgetbuzz]

Wait a moment it is more complex than that .. first port of call is the claimant against their own policy .. then if there is no cover .. claimant falls back onto AUK cover.. so it is never claimant having cover from 2 insurers.  So any answer to my query does not pick up any body with their own cover, which has kicked in first. Hmm .. of very limited value as to number of 3rd party claims suffered by audax riders in the last  XX years.

[Cyclops]

It's known as contingent insurance and yes, the number of 3rd party claims on AUK events and the number of 3rd party claims on events that were handled by AUK's insurers may be two totally different figures.

[Fidgetbuzz]

We are in careful discussions with Endsleigh Insurance to become an Appointed Representative .. which would mean that Endsleigh can accept overseas residents as insured if their contract is placed thru us. a first indication of the likely cost for a 14 day travel cover which would pick up £1,000,000 of 3rd party cover is in the £25 area. This will take another 3 or 4 weeks to get thru the legal  things like FCA  approval .. but if you are an overseas resident ..concerned about insurance cover .. I would suggest that you hold fire for a period of time .. until we are able to give you the complete low down on what is on offer and at what price.

The policy and price would be something like the one offered here.. if you want a foretaste of this possible development

https://www.sportstoursinternational.co.uk/travel-insurance/

[Fidgetbuzz]

Current position from an update today

21st April .
After much discussion, our underwriters have agreed to provide cover even if less than 100% of the non-UK resident riders take out the travel insurance. However, their condition is that at least 400 participants should take out the insurance policy. Also, the applicable rate is £21.99 for two weeks of cover (for any participant aged 16 – 65) and £32.98 for two weeks of cover for any participant aged 66 – 75.


DO I STAND A CAT IN HELL CHANCE OF GETTING 400 OVERSEAS RIDERS TO TAKE THIS UP .. well lets see


I have asked for a quick sketch of the cover ..
Personal liability is £1,000,000
Medical is £5,000,000
Baggage £2000 . single item £200 max .. so no good for your bike
Cancellation £2000 .. but that will be for medical reasons not change of mind


this is posted here and is already on Facebook .. there will also be thought given to a mass circular to all riders to see whether there is demand at or very close to the 400 figure .. when we will have to jump thru legal hoops to get it set up.

Flag your interest with a yes please comment
Roger

[mongo]

yes please... mongo

[rusa64]

Just FYI - I'm an overseas registrant with adequate cover already, so wouldn't purchase this if given a choice. I'm not sure how common my situation is among your overseas riders.

Mark

[jsabine]

Wiggle Elite ....

https://cycleinsurance.wiggle.co.uk/our-cycle-insurance

You, Your means the person who must be over the age of 16 and named as the policyholder on the Schedule who is resident in the United Kingdom pursuant to the laws of tax residency

Probably not ideal for overseas riders. (Though some may find that there are analogous policies available through non-traditional insurance outlets in their own countries.)

[Fidgetbuzz]

Wiggle cover is like AUK cover only available to UK residents.

[Fidgetbuzz]

Underwriters have indicated that they will accept a 250 take up rather than the 400 initially looked for .

So .. IF you are an overseas resident .. who has not picked this up either from our Facebook group or from the rider circular that went out two days ago .. and want to be on the list .. please message me .

If you do .... this is not a firm commitment .. but an expression of interest .. hoping that we can get to 250. Currently Thursday 27th at 9.00pm .. I have 94 names on the list.

[Fidgetbuzz]

We have agreed with the underwriters to deliver a certain guaranteed income for them .
this means that when we have cleared the legal hurdles .. we will be able to offer a policy to all overseas residents that are interested .. costs will be about £25 for the equivalent of a 2 week travel policy .

I will update as we make progress on getting to the position of being  able to go ahead

[Fidgetbuzz]

INSURANCE UPDATE. I have had a long conversation with the company that will actually provide the insurance cover. I am very confident that we will have cleared all the legal and financial hurdles so that we will be able to offer travel cover on 1st July .. allowing you to purchase a defined 2 week cover thru the LEL shop using Paypal to pay. I expect to e-mail all 196 of you who have expressed interest .. prior to 1st July .. spelling out the cover provided and the steps that you need to take to buy cover. Cost for a 18 to 65 year old will be 23.99, 66 to 75 will be 34.98