Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: quixoticgeek on 03 March, 2019, 10:33:38 pm
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Have just given my cassette a damn good clean. The small rings that are separate I could put through the ultrasonic cleaner, but the larger block of rings that are a single unit are too big to fit in my cleaner. I had to make do with citrus degreaser spray, a brush, a tooth brush, and cloth. It was laborious, messy, and made a right mess of the sink. The size of the block makes it a bit hard to do the Sheldon shake.
What is the best way of cleaning a cassette? There seemed to be something a bit like mud, and even the odd bit of twig deep between the sprockets.
Is there a better way? Or should I just be hunting a bigger ultrasonic cleaner?
J
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i use a dishwashing brush, apply some degreaser and then turn pedals to rotate casette quickly whilst holding brush against it. No need to piss about taking the cassette off, let alone ultrasonic cleaners.
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i use a dishwashing brush, apply some degreaser and then turn pedals to rotate casette quickly whilst holding brush against it. No need to piss about taking the cassette off, let alone ultrasonic cleaners.
That would make a right mess of the hallway carpet...
Much easier to take off the cassette and clean it in the sink...
J
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Ahh. No garden, I take it.
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I've taken to 'flossing' between the sprockets with a manky old microfibre cloth (something with a bit more thickness to it than a J cloth) soaked in detergent/degreaser, without removing it from the wheel (or indeed the bike, but it's probably easier if the chain's out of the way). The freehub makes this quick and easy, and it's surprisingly effective if the cassette isn't too horrendous to start with. I'd rather do that twice as often as a proper cassette-in-the-sink scrubbing.
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Ahh. No garden, I take it.
6th floor city apartment...
J
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I just floss with a rough kind of rope, using a bit more of a meter or so per clean.
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Doing that to an ultrasound cleaner strikes me as a very good way of killing the cleaner unless you spend as much time cleaning it as you do the cassette.
A dishwasher would do a good job but your housemate(s) might object.
One way to do it is to have a suitable container to do the job rather than using the sink (like a plastic 5l drum with a hole cut out of one side to make a washing tube). Old toothbrushes are handy for brushing sprockets. This way you don't have to clean the sink afterwards which saves a bit of work.
My approach is to scrape the muck out between the sprockets with a small screwdriver, rinse with aerosol degreaser and reoil. Since I use more freewheels than cassettes I don't take them off the wheel. CBA!
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Have just given my cassette a damn good clean. The small rings that are separate I could put through the ultrasonic cleaner, but the larger block of rings that are a single unit are too big to fit in my cleaner. I had to make do with citrus degreaser spray, a brush, a tooth brush, and cloth. It was laborious, messy, and made a right mess of the sink. The size of the block makes it a bit hard to do the Sheldon shake.
What is the best way of cleaning a cassette? There seemed to be something a bit like mud, and even the odd bit of twig deep between the sprockets.
Is there a better way? Or should I just be hunting a bigger ultrasonic cleaner?
J
I found that Cillet Bang and a 1" and a half inch decent paint brush in a used plastic paint tub did the job of shifting everything that the road threw at my bike and the vulnerable parts including the chain,the cassette,the triple chain-rings.
This involved a quick wash down with warm water and then drying off of the components and then re-lubricating them again.
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I'd use pipe cleaners if I really wanted to give it a proper going over.
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Is there a better way?
By the by, the best degreaser available in the Netherlands by far is Dasty superontvetter (https://wibra.eu/nl/assortiment/huis-en-tuin/dasty-superontvetter-met-sproeikop/). Pity that it is only sold in Wibra shops.
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I'm with soaking it first, I have some re-purposed foil tins. Put cassette in and fill with degreaser to soak. Occasional agitation, then mechanical cleaning with a brush. Rinse off and lubricate.
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Degreaser then floss with off-cuts of old towel, tee-shirt or whatever else is handy. The thing has to work smoothly, not win a beauty contest.
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Doing that to an ultrasound cleaner strikes me as a very good way of killing the cleaner unless you spend as much time cleaning it as you do the cassette.
My understanding is for teeny parts or seriously manky stuff is to put them in a container with what fluid goes in the ultrasonic cleaner, then put that in the cleaner which also contains fluid.
Disclaimer: I've only read about it somewhere. When I've had recourse to use an ultrasonic cleaner it was one at work and therefore Someone Else's Problem.
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I use baby wipes to floss between the rings. They're pretty good at degreasing, and they get inbetween the rings pretty well. I also give a good spray of wd-40 first to loosen any hard stuff, then floss with the wipes.
For any really tough stuff, baby wipe wrapped around the end of a screwdriver.
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prevention is the best cure, i don't let the muck to build up by wiping it down after every ride, so the cassette looks new and shiny all the time. it takes 10min to clean the whole drivetrain after a weekend's ride - time well spent. all parts are kept dry (except the inside of the chain rollers) so the dust particles don't stick to them.
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I use a generous spray of Muc Off followed by an old toothbrush to get into all the gaps between the sprockets
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prevention is the best cure, i don't let the muck to build up by wiping it down after every ride, so the cassette looks new and shiny all the time. it takes 10min to clean the whole drivetrain after a weekend's ride - time well spent. all parts are kept dry (except the inside of the chain rollers) so the dust particles don't stick to them.
I'm riding too much for that, this bike is also my commuter, my training bike, my race bike, my Audax bike, and my shrink...
J
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I find that 10 mins spent cleaning transmission parts is much better value than 10 mins with any shrink :)
(I also find the "flossing" techniques pretty time-efficient, as well as very therapeutic. I tend to use whatever materials are going to end up in the bin anyway e.g. rags - even newspaper is some use. )
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Ahh. No garden, I take it.
6th floor city apartment...
J
When I’m working on the bike indoors I put it upside down on an old quilt cover/rug. I find this better than newspaper for coverage and absorbing spills (which find their way through gaps in the paper).
I use a knife or screwdriver or similar to get the big muck out, then spray with any degreaser or apply white spirits with a brush.
I use old t-shirts torn into strips and folded once or twice to get between the sprockets.
An old toothbrush is quite good on stubborn bits, but doesn’t have the reach. However, if I can’t get to it with the knife, the t-shirt floss or the toothbrush, I can live with it.
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if you have access to a pressure washer, shifting the worst of it with that is not a bad idea. It is normally possible to blast the crud from a cassette without aiming the jet at bearing seals etc.
FWIW chain lubes vary in what flavour of sticky crud they generate, and this sticky crud is what makes a lot of the unshiftable stuff on a cassette. Unfortunately winter quality chain lubes (which have any resistance to road salt) tend to make for extra-sticky crud.
Some suggestions;
a) hot (pressure or other) wash works a lot better than cold. Most flavours of sticky crud are softened when hot.
b) if you can't bear the labour intensive 'gotta get it done' frenzy, maybe it is worth thinking about having a second cassette & chain which you use on rotation? This way the dirty parts can be left to soak; a Tupperware container is usually leak-tight enough that a cassette can left inside it soaking in paraffin/white spirit for a day or two. (BTW a shallow bath of solvent can often be made to wick up a cassette wrapped in rag/tissue and thus the solvent can be made to soften crud that isn't actually immersed.) The stinky/fire hazard business of further cleaning can be done elsewhere/outside at a more convenient time if you don't want to stink your flat out. The solvent can be re-used many times.
FWIW I would be a bit more worried about leaving a cassette to soak in a water-based cleaner for days; such cleaners are often corrosive enough that they can cause problems where solvents do not. I also worry about putting crud from chains and cassettes into the water system.
cheers
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Just take it off and put it through the dishwasher when the mrs is at work.
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Makes me nostalgic for the days of the hot trichloroethane tank at work.
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I'm with soaking it first, I have some re-purposed foil tins. Put cassette in and fill with degreaser to soak. Occasional agitation, then mechanical cleaning with a brush. Rinse off and lubricate.
I do similar with a couple of old shallow plastic containers, just big enough for the largest sprocket. Dismantle as much as possible, chuck it all in, spacers included and come back a couple of days later. Quick wipe, rinse under the tap and reassemble.
Spare casette on bike while this one is soaking
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I cleaned three casettes this weekend. O:-)
The right hand brush of this set (Halfords) comes in handy.
(https://i1.adis.ws/i/washford/164297?w=637&h=403)
You can use empty ice cream tub, or large yoghurt container etc, and put the whole thing in a large plastic bag to avoid spray. I used a cheap equivalent of Muc-Off, the halfords brush, some old socks, and water rinses. Casettes cleaned up well, not spotless, but then I didn't want to spend ages... ;)
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Just take it off and put it through the dishwasher when the mrs is at work.
a) I'm single, so no Mrs to worry about
b) I don't have a dishwasher
J
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I just spent a good hour or so cleaning a cassette that I’m hoping will work with the new chain ( I do change them well before wear indicator goes anywhere near the 0.75). Dismantled, degreased, washed and sprayed with water dispersant before being dried. The sprockets are clean, but not totally corrosion free.
If the chain jumps tomorrow I will be cursing the time spent when I could just have stuck a new, shiny cassette on.
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I use baby wipes to floss between the rings. They're pretty good at degreasing, and they get inbetween the rings pretty well. I also give a good spray of wd-40 first to loosen any hard stuff, then floss with the wipes.
For any really tough stuff, baby wipe wrapped around the end of a screwdriver.
This. Baby wipes for cleaning everything on my bike except the chain. Lidl ones are good. Guess they're just a variation on the multiple 'flossing' techniques mentioned up thread.
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prevention is the best cure, i don't let the muck to build up by wiping it down after every ride, so the cassette looks new and shiny all the time. it takes 10min to clean the whole drivetrain after a weekend's ride - time well spent. all parts are kept dry (except the inside of the chain rollers) so the dust particles don't stick to them.
I'm riding too much for that, this bike is also my commuter, my training bike, my race bike, my Audax bike, and my shrink...
J
This is where people like Santos bikes (who are dutch I believe) would argue that a belt drive and Rohloff hub is superior to a conventional transmision. You can race in the sand all week-end, hose the bike off and you're good for the ride to work on monday. The theory fails on two counts for me, main one being that I don't have the superior income to go with the superior transmission and second that I have doubts about the value for hard riding weightwise.
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a) I'm single, so no Mrs to worry about
b) I don't have a dishwasher
J
I also have no dishwasher but am married, so when I need to deep clean chains and cassettes I put them to simmer in a detergent solution using in an old "mess tin" on a camping gas stove. You could try the same in an old or maybe new saucepan in the kitchen? ;D
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fwiw baby wipes are an environmental disaster area.
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/may/26/disposable-wipes-sewer-toilet-cities-flushable (https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/may/26/disposable-wipes-sewer-toilet-cities-flushable)
https://www.romper.com/p/wet-wipes-are-a-huge-environmental-problem-we-need-to-talk-about-it-62558 (https://www.romper.com/p/wet-wipes-are-a-huge-environmental-problem-we-need-to-talk-about-it-62558)
cheers
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as is cycling for pleasure, unnecessary and encourages higher consumption of both bicycle components and food with associated environmental impacts, where do you want to stop with your carbon footprint?
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as is cycling for pleasure, unnecessary and encourages higher consumption of both bicycle components and food with associated environmental impacts, where do you want to stop with your carbon footprint?
Yes and no. I'm not really eating anything extra to go cycling, I'm burning off the fat I've already created by eating too much. It's also worth noting that most of us aren't powering our riding purely from air freighted asparagus, and thus it's generally a pretty low CO² activity. There is something to be said for the non recyclability of Composites like Carbon Fibre, which is not exactly environmentally friendly, but for most other parts they are recyclable, or can be at least reused.
The only item other than carbon fibre I've not found a clear recycling chain for is my tyres. Dead tubes get repurposed as art, and other items. Chains get re-purposed as jewellery (As featured on last weeks GCN tech show!), cassettes ditto, and I'm looking at seeing if I can recycle these into Damascus too. My bike is steel so at end of life it can be melted down and recycled. Etc...
Bikes are pretty damn green, and given I'm using it for commuting instead of a car, it's very good. *BUT* the points re baby wipes is still valid, esp as they are not necessary to the function of the bike.
J
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i use a dishwashing brush, apply some degreaser and then turn pedals to rotate casette quickly whilst holding brush against it. No need to piss about taking the cassette off, let alone ultrasonic cleaners.
That would make a right mess of the hallway carpet...
Much easier to take off the cassette and clean it in the sink...
J
I do similar to Hot Flatus - outside my block of flats in the street between the parked cars, then ride to the garage and rinse off with a plain water jet wash, it's a quid well spent. It doesn't get it ultrasonic clean, but I've never felt the need to and IMO it's vastly superior to filling my flat with white spirit vapours.
For unavoidable indoor cleaning and maintenance, I cut a bit off a roll of polythene dust sheet, 50 meters for a fiver, I can live with the guilt of it not being recycled.
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as is cycling for pleasure, unnecessary and encourages higher consumption of both bicycle components and food with associated environmental impacts, where do you want to stop with your carbon footprint?
Yes and no. I'm not really eating anything extra to go cycling, I'm burning off the fat I've already created by eating too much. It's also worth noting that most of us aren't powering our riding purely from air freighted asparagus, and thus it's generally a pretty low CO² activity. There is something to be said for the non recyclability of Composites like Carbon Fibre, which is not exactly environmentally friendly, but for most other parts they are recyclable, or can be at least reused.
The only item other than carbon fibre I've not found a clear recycling chain for is my tyres. Dead tubes get repurposed as art, and other items. Chains get re-purposed as jewellery (As featured on last weeks GCN tech show!), cassettes ditto, and I'm looking at seeing if I can recycle these into Damascus too. My bike is steel so at end of life it can be melted down and recycled. Etc...
Bikes are pretty damn green, and given I'm using it for commuting instead of a car, it's very good. *BUT* the points re baby wipes is still valid, esp as they are not necessary to the function of the bike.
J
The point is no leisure activity by definition can be environmentally friendly, it is, by definition unnecessary and therefore excess consumption.
Whether you ate the excess food first, during, or after cycling is irrelevant. Can you guarantee your steel framed bike will be recycled using 100% carbon free energy? can you guarantee your tyres etc were sourced sustainably, zero carbon etc - butyl rubber and Kevlar have quite an impact.
You can get anal about this shit, or you can clean your bike
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as is cycling for pleasure, unnecessary and encourages higher consumption of both bicycle components and food with associated environmental impacts, where do you want to stop with your carbon footprint?
Yes and no. I'm not really eating anything extra to go cycling, I'm burning off the fat I've already created by eating too much. It's also worth noting that most of us aren't powering our riding purely from air freighted asparagus, and thus it's generally a pretty low CO² activity.
I carbon-offset most of my cycling with extra showers.
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as is cycling for pleasure, unnecessary and encourages higher consumption of both bicycle components and food with associated environmental impacts, where do you want to stop with your carbon footprint?
Yes and no. I'm not really eating anything extra to go cycling, I'm burning off the fat I've already created by eating too much. It's also worth noting that most of us aren't powering our riding purely from air freighted asparagus, and thus it's generally a pretty low CO² activity.
I carbon-offset most of my cycling with extra showers.
Hi Kim. Do the extra showers (water & electric or gas used) really justify the OFFSET ? How do you calculate it to such a fine degree ?
Cold showers - maybe !! but I suppose it is what ever floats your boat or sets your toes tingling.
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I carbon offset my cycling but not cleaning my cassette and sometimes by not cleaning the house. ;D
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as is cycling for pleasure, unnecessary and encourages higher consumption of both bicycle components and food with associated environmental impacts, where do you want to stop with your carbon footprint?
Yes and no. I'm not really eating anything extra to go cycling, I'm burning off the fat I've already created by eating too much. It's also worth noting that most of us aren't powering our riding purely from air freighted asparagus, and thus it's generally a pretty low CO² activity.
I carbon-offset most of my cycling with extra showers.
Hi Kim. Do the extra showers (water & electric or gas used) really justify the OFFSET ? How do you calculate it to such a fine degree ?
Not even slightly. I was just demonstrating that whatever carbon emissions I might save by not using a wankpanzer I make up for by running a gas boiler after each ride. Cycling is less low-carbon that it looks.
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as long as you don't have a power shower, draw your water from a well, dug by hand (necessity rather than pleasure) and shower under a bucket with holes in, I'll accept a low-carbon argument
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as is cycling for pleasure, unnecessary and encourages higher consumption of both bicycle components and food with associated environmental impacts, where do you want to stop with your carbon footprint?
Yes and no. I'm not really eating anything extra to go cycling, I'm burning off the fat I've already created by eating too much. It's also worth noting that most of us aren't powering our riding purely from air freighted asparagus, and thus it's generally a pretty low CO² activity.
I carbon-offset most of my cycling with extra showers.
Hi Kim. Do the extra showers (water & electric or gas used) really justify the OFFSET ? How do you calculate it to such a fine degree ?
Not even slightly. I was just demonstrating that whatever carbon emissions I might save by not using a wankpanzer I make up for by running a gas boiler after each ride. Cycling is less low-carbon that it looks.
My bold.
I'd be interested to see some stats for that - particularly when you factor in manufacturing costs for the vehicle - be it a bike or a car.
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as is cycling for pleasure, unnecessary and encourages higher consumption of both bicycle components and food with associated environmental impacts, where do you want to stop with your carbon footprint?
Yes and no. I'm not really eating anything extra to go cycling, I'm burning off the fat I've already created by eating too much. It's also worth noting that most of us aren't powering our riding purely from air freighted asparagus, and thus it's generally a pretty low CO² activity.
I carbon-offset most of my cycling with extra showers.
Hi Kim. Do the extra showers (water & electric or gas used) really justify the OFFSET ? How do you calculate it to such a fine degree ?
Not even slightly. I was just demonstrating that whatever carbon emissions I might save by not using a wankpanzer I make up for by running a gas boiler after each ride. Cycling is less low-carbon that it looks.
My bold.
I'd be interested to see some stats for that - particularly when you factor in manufacturing costs for the vehicle - be it a bike or a car.
Indeed. (I'm sure you can manufacture a shedload of bicycles for the energy involved in making one wankpanzer.) It gets even more interesting if you fit an electric motor to the bicycle, which might avoid the need for a shower.
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as is cycling for pleasure, unnecessary and encourages higher consumption of both bicycle components and food with associated environmental impacts, where do you want to stop with your carbon footprint?
Yes and no. I'm not really eating anything extra to go cycling, I'm burning off the fat I've already created by eating too much. It's also worth noting that most of us aren't powering our riding purely from air freighted asparagus, and thus it's generally a pretty low CO² activity.
I carbon-offset most of my cycling with extra showers.
Hi Kim. Do the extra showers (water & electric or gas used) really justify the OFFSET ? How do you calculate it to such a fine degree ?
Not even slightly. I was just demonstrating that whatever carbon emissions I might save by not using a wankpanzer I make up for by running a gas boiler after each ride. Cycling is less low-carbon that it looks.
My bold.
I'd be interested to see some stats for that - particularly when you factor in manufacturing costs for the vehicle - be it a bike or a car.
Indeed. It gets even more interesting if you fit an electric motor to the bicycle and avoid the need for a shower.
Or cycle naked in the rain to kill 2 birds with one stone.....
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as long as you don't have a power shower, draw your water from a well, dug by hand (necessity rather than pleasure) and shower under a bucket with holes in, I'll accept a low-carbon argument
Why does this stuff have to be so binary?
The term for this may be "fallacy of perfection", but I've never been good at remembering that stuff.
Look at it another way: it's perfectly sensible to discuss relative eco-impact of different things, without it turning into a war against anyone with a larger carbon footprint than oneself. It's just about gathering/spreading information so that we can make better decisions.
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as is cycling for pleasure, unnecessary and encourages higher consumption of both bicycle components and food with associated environmental impacts, where do you want to stop with your carbon footprint?
Yes and no. I'm not really eating anything extra to go cycling, I'm burning off the fat I've already created by eating too much. It's also worth noting that most of us aren't powering our riding purely from air freighted asparagus, and thus it's generally a pretty low CO² activity.
I carbon-offset most of my cycling with extra showers.
Hi Kim. Do the extra showers (water & electric or gas used) really justify the OFFSET ? How do you calculate it to such a fine degree ?
Not even slightly. I was just demonstrating that whatever carbon emissions I might save by not using a wankpanzer I make up for by running a gas boiler after each ride. Cycling is less low-carbon that it looks.
My bold.
I'd be interested to see some stats for that - particularly when you factor in manufacturing costs for the vehicle - be it a bike or a car.
Indeed. (I'm sure you can manufacture a shedload of bicycles for the energy involved in making one wankpanzer.) It gets even more interesting if you fit an electric motor to the bicycle, which might avoid the need for a shower.
Oooohhh!
What you call interesting, some might call tricky ;)
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as is cycling for pleasure, unnecessary and encourages higher consumption of both bicycle components and food with associated environmental impacts, where do you want to stop with your carbon footprint?
It not being clear where to stop doesn’t mean you shouldn’t start. Everything is a trade off between useful function and environmental impact and looking for things where that balance is massively out of whack seems as good a place to start as any.
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as long as you don't have a power shower, draw your water from a well, dug by hand (necessity rather than pleasure) and shower under a bucket with holes in, I'll accept a low-carbon argument
Why does this stuff have to be so binary?
The term for this may be "fallacy of perfection", but I've never been good at remembering that stuff.
Look at it another way: it's perfectly sensible to discuss relative eco-impact of different things, without it turning into a war against anyone with a larger carbon footprint than oneself. It's just about gathering/spreading information so that we can make better decisions.
Why do you have to assume I was being so serious? Rather than trying to shake off the tedium of a really not fun week of work?
You're just being sooooooo binary Matt, I'll remember that one :P
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An old t-shirt wrapped around a redundant CD to give a bit of rigidity works well for cleaning between sprockets.
A Dire Straits one is best, thereby killing two birds with one stone. ;)
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Don't bother!
Cassettes (on-road) last a long time. I can't remember the last time I actually wore one out. All I do is give it a wipe with a cloth when I change my chain, or flick obvious lumps of dirt off if I see them.
I find that I have to change cassettes because they have added more sprockets much more often than because they have worn out.
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fwiw baby wipes are an environmental disaster area.
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/may/26/disposable-wipes-sewer-toilet-cities-flushable (https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/may/26/disposable-wipes-sewer-toilet-cities-flushable)
https://www.romper.com/p/wet-wipes-are-a-huge-environmental-problem-we-need-to-talk-about-it-62558 (https://www.romper.com/p/wet-wipes-are-a-huge-environmental-problem-we-need-to-talk-about-it-62558)
cheers
I use 3 or 4 to clean a cassette, and I don't flush them down the loo. I doubt that there's much difference between a baby wipe and an old piece of cotton or length of rope.
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A baby wipe has been made specifically for that purpose whereas a old piece of cotton will be serving its second (or further) use.
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Don't bother!
Cassettes (on-road) last a long time. I can't remember the last time I actually wore one out. All I do is give it a wipe with a cloth when I change my chain, or flick obvious lumps of dirt off if I see them.
I find that I have to change cassettes because they have added more sprockets much more often than because they have worn out.
:D
Yeah, I don't think cleaning them increases the life much (although I do wear mine out... I've been riding mostly 8speed for about 30 years).
But I think it helps keep your chain - and thus everything else - clean. You don't need to get them spotless - just shifting the excess.
Plus I think there's a general rule with cleaning - leaving dirt on attracts more dirt more quickly, so it will take more effort next time. But this is impossible to quantify; so I just use it as a reason for smugness when I have a few extra minutes to get something REALLY clean :smug:
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All this cleaning of chains, cassettes and all is generating waste heavily laced with hydrocarbons. Unless the waste is going into a suitable treatment centre identified as hydrocarbon waste it is possibly better for the environment to leave it on the bike (having worked in a workshop where all the grease, oil and other crud was caught in separators which we paid to have emptied and the product disposed of correctly, whatever that may have meant ???). Waste doesn't disappear, it just changes its form!
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All this cleaning of chains, cassettes and all is generating waste heavily laced with hydrocarbons. Unless the waste is going into a suitable treatment centre identified as hydrocarbon waste it is possibly better for the environment to leave it on the bike (having worked in a workshop where all the grease, oil and other crud was caught in separators which we paid to have emptied and the product disposed of correctly, whatever that may have meant ??? ). Waste doesn't disappear, it just changes its form!
I've heard it all now! ::-)
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All this cleaning of chains, cassettes and all is generating waste heavily laced with hydrocarbons. Unless the waste is going into a suitable treatment centre identified as hydrocarbon waste it is possibly better for the environment to leave it on the bike (having worked in a workshop where all the grease, oil and other crud was caught in separators which we paid to have emptied and the product disposed of correctly, whatever that may have meant ???). Waste doesn't disappear, it just changes its form!
That's a fair point. :thumbsup:
But I think dilution is a big factor. Some stuff is a problem no matter how much you dilute - because it accretes somewhere down the line into a problematic form (c.f. fatballs!). I think plastic is in this category (see: marine life with stomachs full of our waste). But other stuff is basically harmless if you dilute it enough.
I await an expert to categorise the hydrocarbons coming off our bikes.
(My guess is that what we clean off is mostly road dirt, so it's not worth worrying about ...)
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depends on the chain lube you use, I'd imagine.
cheers
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On the waste heirarchy for oily rags, I'd expect not many feasible options other than incineration with energy recovery
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for really messy wiping of oily stuff I use paper wipes; they usually get burned afterwards. Most cloth rags get used for less aggressive wiping/polishing duties and often get run through the washing machine a few times before they have had it.
cheers
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depends on the chain lube you use, I'd imagine.
cheers
Exactly. The Hydrocarbons aren't really the main issue here. The bigger problem is PFC's - perfluorocarbons. These occur in chain lube as PTFE. This washes off and gets into the environment.
The hydrocarbons from washing your chain etc... for the most part won't go into the environment as hydrocarbons. The action of the soap or degreaser is to act as a solvent, which should break down the hydrocarbons. My chemistry isn't so great, no doubt someone who knows more can comment on the products of the saponification, and their environmental impact.
We then have to get onto the subject of quantities. With 13000km under my belt, I've yet to fully use the 120ml bottle of lube I started with. Meaning that the total amount I've put into the environment, even if all of it was washed down the drain without going through any other process, would be less than a 3rd of a pint. There is also the issue of what the origin of the lube is, technically olive oil is a hydrocarbon, but it's of natural origin. Is the lube mineral oil based, or is it plant/animal based*?
It's not a clear cut argument one way or the other, and seeing as what goes down the drain, in any civilised country will get multiple levels of processing to remove all of the bits that aren't just water, I don't think it's something to worry about.
The environmental implications of having a wet wipe incinerated (the local waste disposal method of choice), is much more of a concern...
J
* For the purpose of this statement I'm ignoring the fact that mineral oils are derived from plants/animals that existed millions of years ago, you know what I'm trying to say, stop being pedantic :p
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depends on the chain lube you use, I'd imagine.
cheers
Exactly. The Hydrocarbons aren't really the main issue here. The bigger problem is PFC's - perfluorocarbons. These occur in chain lube as PTFE. This washes off and gets into the environment.
The hydrocarbons from washing your chain etc... for the most part won't go into the environment as hydrocarbons. The action of the soap or degreaser is to act as a solvent, which should break down the hydrocarbons. My chemistry isn't so great, no doubt someone who knows more can comment on the products of the saponification, and their environmental impact.
We then have to get onto the subject of quantities. With 13000km under my belt, I've yet to fully use the 120ml bottle of lube I started with. Meaning that the total amount I've put into the environment, even if all of it was washed down the drain without going through any other process, would be less than a 3rd of a pint. There is also the issue of what the origin of the lube is, technically olive oil is a hydrocarbon, but it's of natural origin. Is the lube mineral oil based, or is it plant/animal based*?
It's not a clear cut argument one way or the other, and seeing as what goes down the drain, in any civilised country will get multiple levels of processing to remove all of the bits that aren't just water, I don't think it's something to worry about.
The environmental implications of having a wet wipe incinerated (the local waste disposal method of choice), is much more of a concern...
J
* For the purpose of this statement I'm ignoring the fact that mineral oils are derived from plants/animals that existed millions of years ago, you know what I'm trying to say, stop being pedantic :p
doesn't so much break them down as surround them with hydrophylic/hydrophobic ends to hold them in suspension as oil droplets in the wash water. If you wash it down the drain, some of it wil be degraded in the sewage works biologically, some will not and will end up in the environment. Thsi is why commercial carwashes have an environmental permit with conditions of compliance.
Your impact will in itself be minimal, but accumulated with the other casette-polishing cyclists out there may add up. What it would be vs the inpact from the Dutch offshore sector, road runoff, other industrial applications I couldn't say.
As a vague handwavy assumption thoughy, maybe half your lube into the acquatic environment either marine or freshwater and the rest on land? The fact that it was critters or trees millions of years go is not relevant - oil dug up from the ground is not sustainable on a human lifescale.
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On the other hand, I expect the volume of hydrocarbons I've used for cleaning and lubricating bicycles in the last decade pales in comparison to the amount spilt on Diesel Corner[1] in the average month.
Let's sort out the motor vehicles, then worry about the bicycles.
[1] A junction near a fuel station on one of my regular routes where I had a nasty off in 2010, and now proceed at dead slow.
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Handily I create socks with holes in at roughly the same rate as I floss my cassettes.
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Handily I create socks with holes in at roughly the same rate as I floss my cassettes.
Do you sleep-walk?
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Based on that question mattc, do you sleep in your socks ?
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Only if I know I've left dirty cassettes lying around!
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I recall using Gunk as my engine cleaner of choice when I was a lad.
I now have an ultrasound bath and have been a little disappointed that gobs of grease haven't been removed from parts I've ultrasounded (is that a word ?)
Do you reckon using Gunk in the ultrasound will be alright ?
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I recall using Gunk as my engine cleaner of choice when I was a lad.
I now have an ultrasound bath and have been a little disappointed that gobs of grease haven't been removed from parts I've ultrasounded (is that a word ?)
Do you reckon using Gunk in the ultrasound will be alright ?
Having experimented with all manner of cleaning media, I passed my ultrasound cleaner on to another YACF'er on account of similar disappointment.
They might be alright on jewellery or pen parts, but my one was a bit shite on bike bits.
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We had an ultrasound bath in my very first job and it was brilliant, though the solvent used was neat acetone. That saw all manner of automotive parts on the sly. I'm therefore wondering if the fluid I'm using simply isn't strong enough, and I'm conscious that getting hold of litre bottles of acetone is probably problematic now.
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We had an ultrasound bath in my very first job and it was brilliant, though the solvent used was neat acetone. That saw all manner of automotive parts on the sly. I'm therefore wondering if the fluid I'm using simply isn't strong enough, and I'm conscious that getting hold of litre bottles of acetone is probably problematic now.
It is tricky.
It took trips to a several of pharmacies before I was enabled with the quantity of acetone that I desired.
Most will only sell it to you thimble-cup quantities.
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I recall using Gunk as my engine cleaner of choice when I was a lad.
I now have an ultrasound bath and have been a little disappointed that gobs of grease haven't been removed from parts I've ultrasounded (is that a word ?)
Do you reckon using Gunk in the ultrasound will be alright ?
If you have gunky sorts of bits to clean, Gunk with a suitable brush and a hose down afterwards will invariably be better than ultrasound. An industrial fountain parts washer will also be better and ecological cleaners do exist (although the muck that is washed off with them and settles in the bottom of the barrel is just as nasty as it is with any other cleaner).
When I worked in a workshop with this sort of problem, apart from the separator our main tools were a fountain (rental, recycled every 6 weeks) and a parts washer that was basically a giant dishwasher. It used industrial detergent and hot water that was changed once every 6 months. The water went into the separator to be pumped by the waste cleaners. A visiting rep used our "dishwasher" as a test to sell a similar item to a firm rebuilding turbochargers because they couldn't get decent results with an ultrasound cleaner
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I recall using Gunk as my engine cleaner of choice when I was a lad.
I now have an ultrasound bath and have been a little disappointed that gobs of grease haven't been removed from parts I've ultrasounded (is that a word ?)
Do you reckon using Gunk in the ultrasound will be alright ?
If you have gunky sorts of bits to clean, Gunk with a suitable brush and a hose down afterwards will invariably be better than ultrasound. An industrial fountain parts washer will also be better and ecological cleaners do exist (although the muck that is washed off with them and settles in the bottom of the barrel is just as nasty as it is with any other cleaner).
When I worked in a workshop with this sort of problem, apart from the separator our main tools were a fountain (rental, recycled every 6 weeks) and a parts washer that was basically a giant dishwasher. It used industrial detergent and hot water that was changed once every 6 months. The water went into the separator to be pumped by the waste cleaners. A visiting rep used our "dishwasher" as a test to sell a similar item to a firm rebuilding turbochargers because they couldn't get decent results with an ultrasound cleaner
^
This.
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While on the subject of ultrasound cleaners: these are basically for fine cleaning parts and surfaces that are already clean from crud. My experience of them has been in garden machinery workshops where they are used for cleaning and clearing carburetters off lawnmowers and brushcutters and chainsaws (often jet and tract cleaning). The parts are already free of crud. One of the best ways of wrecking an ultrasound cleaner is to use it with cruddy parts and then not clean it properly afterwards (a common occurrence in certain establishments; forgetting to switch it off after the elapsed time is equally effective). Cleaning parts by other means before putting them in the ultrasound is the best procedure.
The other thing about ultrasound cleaners is their way of working. Basically they explode bubbles of oxygen on the surface being cleaned, which creates very slight erosion of the part. How much? Stihl (chainsaw and brushcutter makers) in their tech doc advised that carburetters should be cleaned in ultrasound a maximum of three times in their lifespan. The fourth time was likely to have eroded the part beyond its working tolerances. Following this advice one would be foolish to repeatedly clean things like rear mech parts in ultrasound because of the risk of creating play in pivots (thinks wickedly of the bod who will break his electronic shifting by changing the tolerances cleaning his cassette in ultrasound. No it won't happen but it's a nice idea :demon:)
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Have just given my cassette a damn good clean. The small rings that are separate I could put through the ultrasonic cleaner, but the larger block of rings that are a single unit are too big to fit in my cleaner. I had to make do with citrus degreaser spray, a brush, a tooth brush, and cloth. It was laborious, messy, and made a right mess of the sink. The size of the block makes it a bit hard to do the Sheldon shake.
What is the best way of cleaning a cassette? There seemed to be something a bit like mud, and even the odd bit of twig deep between the sprockets.
Is there a better way? Or should I just be hunting a bigger ultrasonic cleaner?
J
Oh, just noticed that this thread is nearly two years old. Any road up, just pointing out that if the larger sprockets on the cassette are riveted together rather than on a spider you can just tap out the rivets, discard them and you have a load of loose sprockets that are a doddle to clean. That’s what I do.
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The big question is why?
I've never removed a cassette for cleaning, let alone dissemble one. Pontless waste of time.
Just get some Morgan Blue Chain cleaner, apply with a dish brush. Rinse off 5 minutes later.