Tubeless rim tape for latex inner tubes - what width for 15C rims?

[Oxford_Guy]

I'm considering running latex inner tubes (in Veloflex Master 25 tyres) for the Mercian Strada Speciale road bike I have on order. I'm aware of all the pros/cons of running latex tubes, but for the intended usage of this bike, think am okay with them.

Anyway - I've read in a number of places that it's recommend to run two wrappings of tubeless adhesive rim tape if running latex tubes, but am unsure what width tape I'll need, as will be running relatively narrow Mavic Open Pro rims (on NOS Campagnolo Chorus hubs), which have a 15mm internal diameter, and the narrowest tubeless rim tape from Stans or Silica is 21mm - isn't that going to be too wide?

This chart seems to suggest the 18mm width tape is what is needed for 15C rims?: http://www.schwalbe.com/files/schwalbe/userupload/Images/FAQ/Rimtape.pdf

Is there any decent tubeless rim tape that comes in 18mm width?

[giropaul]

I just use a layer or two of insulation tape if I think that the existing rim tape needs a hand.
You won’t have as much pressure in a 25 the tube as in one in a 23 anyway.

[Oxford_Guy]

I just use a layer or two of insulation tape if I think that the existing rim tape needs a hand.
You won’t have as much pressure in a 25 the tube as in one in a 23 anyway.

True, though apparently the Veloflex Masters run quite small for a 25 (or perhaps truer to say that most 25s run large).

[Oxford_Guy]

I've read that Tesa 4289 is the same stuff as Stans Tubeless tape, but much cheaper if buying without the Stans branding, and you can get narrower widths e.g. 19mm, which think might work better with my 15C Open Pro C Rims e.g.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tesa-4289-No-Tubes-Tubeless-Rim-Tape-19mm-Wide-x-66M-long/293004075523

[Brucey]

why tubeless rim tape?  Why not just use Velox rim tape?

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

why tubeless rim tape?  Why not just use Velox rim tape?

Just based on some of the threads I've read elsewhere about using latex tubes and direct from one person I know in my local cycling club e.g.

"Note that I don't recommend Velox despite the fact that it sticks to the rim bed because over time latex tubes will "seep" into the fibers of the tape, which will make it impossible to uninstall without damaging. Velox also has a bad habit of getting pinched and moving when using tire levers in my experience." - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-idiots-guide-to-latex.html

"Plastic rim strips can sometimes have rather sharp edges that can turn up at the edges and slowly work their way into the latex.
They won't flat straight away, but may in time.
Latex likes to creep so any small shapes can work their way into the tube.
Grit, carbon bits left over from cutting rim hooks and plastic strips with sharp edges may cause problems over time.
Even the material edge on Velox rim tape thins out the latex in an obvious pattern when left in the same spot.
Tubeless rim tape has none of these problems and is usually wide enough to cover the entire rim bed from bead to bead which also insulates the tyre somewhat from excessive heat." - https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/Latex_tubes_for_dummies__P6309372/


Although some do seem to recommend Velox cloth tape:
https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/what_rim_tape_do_you_use_with_latex_tubes_P4919481/

Also some seem to recommend using Velox, but with a layer of electrical tape over the top, to prevent some of the problems mentioned.

BTW on Mavic's own page for their Open Pro C rims, they say: Recommended rim tape (width x thickness):18 x 0.6 (mm)

AFAIK Velox cloth tape comes in 16mm, 17mm and 19mm, but not 18mm somewhat annoyingly... If going for Velox, I suppose the 17mm would be the best option?

Frankly I don't know what would be best to use with latex tubes, hence asking here...

[Brucey]

19mm velox rim tape usually fits OK in Open Pro c rims.  No problems with edges if the rim tape is beneath the tyre bead. Possibly the problems encountered by others are something to do with the type of latex tubes they are using?  After all if latex tubes being pushed up against a bare fabric surface is an inherent problem of some kind, then every single tub would be a non-starter?

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

19mm velox rim tape usually fits OK in Open Pro c rims.

Good to know, I read here that they recommend 17mm Velox, but that thread is from 2005, and I think Open Pros may only have been 13C then?

No problems with edges if the rim tape is beneath the tyre bead. Possibly the problems encountered by others are something to do with the type of latex tubes they are using?  After all if latex tubes being pushed up against a bare fabric surface is an inherent problem of some kind, then every single tub would be a non-starter?

A fair point. I was thinking of using Vittoria or Silca latex tubes, they have removable valve cores (unlike Michelin), which given how often you have to pump the things are probably a good idea, and are thicker than Vredestein and Challenge, so hopefully a little less fragile.

[Oxford_Guy]

BTW I asked Mavic about this and they said:

"For the Open Pro C rims with a 15mm internal width, we recommend to use a rim tape with a 18mm width.  Several brands are selling this kind of rim tape like Velox, Var or BBB for example. "

Except that Velox don't do 18mm, though I have seen 19mm and 17mm

Looks like BBB do cloth tape in 18mm, but I don't know if is the same quality as Velox: https://bbbcycling.com/en_en/bti-98-rimtape

BB also do tubeless tape in 18mm: https://www.sigmasports.com/item/BBB/Tubeless-Rim-Tape-18mm-x-4-metres/IUMX

BBB do this 18mm tubeless tape, but I don't know if it's any good:

[rafletcher]

The 19mm tubeless tape will be fine, I get mine off ebay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tubeless-Bicycle-Wheel-Rim-Tape-Self-Adhesive-Heavy-Duty-Road-Or-MTB-66m-Roll/283083176582?hash=item41e9127a86:m:mKPavWXrirbX1tATjQ5DUnA

for example.

[Oxford_Guy]

The 19mm tubeless tape will be fine, I get mine off ebay.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tubeless-Bicycle-Wheel-Rim-Tape-Self-Adhesive-Heavy-Duty-Road-Or-MTB-66m-Roll/283083176582?hash=item41e9127a86:m:mKPavWXrirbX1tATjQ5DUnA

Thanks, to be used double-wrapped, in presume, considering the high pressure in 23-25mm tyres?

Still not 100% sure whether Velox cloth or the tubeless tape is going to work best for latex tubes, though!

[rafletcher]

I've found a single wrap is ok, 'though I tend (the tyres being tubeless) to run no higher than 7 bar. That tape is quite thick, the DT Swiss rims I got had much thinner stuff as standard, and a single wrap.

[Brucey]

I would fit velox rim tapes, for two reasons

a) I think the logic behind them being 'unsuitable' is flawed, and
b) if the tubes show signs of marking up or other problem after a week or two's use, you can do something about it.

Specifically you can  strip out the velox tapes, roll them up again,  and keep them for later re-use. 

cheers

[Frank9755]

I would too, because people have been doing it for decades without any problem, whereas tubeless tape is a new thing designed for a different purpose.

[rafletcher]

Agreed. Tubeless tape has a sharp edge, not something I'd like in long term contact with a tube.

[Oxford_Guy]

I would fit velox rim tapes, for two reasons

a) I think the logic behind them being 'unsuitable' is flawed, and
b) if the tubes show signs of marking up or other problem after a week or two's use, you can do something about it.

I may be other-thinking it, but as Velox tape is not available in 18mm width (19mm and 17mm are available), like Mavic recommend for my rims, would Schwalbe High Pressure Cloth Rim Tape, which is available in 18mm width, be worth considering using as an alternative? It's made from "high-quality polyester" rather than cotton, like Velox, though am not sure if that's a good or a bad thing. It is apparently thinner, lighter, resistant to water, and much more sticky than Velox, and can handle up to 145 psi.

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s165p3031/SCHWALBE-High-Pressure-Cloth-Rim-Tape

I suppose it's not "tried and tested" as well as Velox, though...

[Brucey]

I've not used it myself but I think it looks OK.  The Schwalbe stuff that comes on a long reel is very thin (probably too thin) but maybe this is slightly thicker?

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

I've not used it myself but I think it looks OK.  The Schwalbe stuff that comes on a long reel is very thin (probably too thin) but maybe this is slightly thicker?

I think there may be two sorts e.g. this version seems available in 19mm, not 18mm and is not advertised as "high pressure" and has no printing on the tape
https://www.tredz.co.uk/.Schwalbe-Cloth-Rim-Tape-Bulk_101467.htm

Whereas this is available in 18mm, but not 19mm, has printing on the tape and is advertised as "high pressure":
https://www.bikester.co.uk/schwalbe-high-pressure-rim-tape-25-m-self-adhesive-blue-478845.html
https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m2b0s165p3031/SCHWALBE-High-Pressure-Cloth-Rim-Tape

I'm guessing the latter sort is for high pressure road bike tyres, the other for hybrids and MTBs

[bikenrrd]

I use Tesa yellow tape with both tubes and tubeless setups:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tesa-4289-No-Tubes-Tubeless-Rim-Tape-19mm-Wide-x-66M-long/293044515171?epid=681840908&hash=item443ad07163:g:6wIAAOSwYPNcOHBL

(other widths are available)

The added advantage over Velox is that it's not as high so it's easier to get a tyre on.

I do two wraps and make sure I squish all the air out between the tape and rim.

[Brucey]

one thing that  is worth bearing in mind is that the Open Pro C rim is designed to use a ~0.6mm thick rim tape. This means velox tape is 'correct' (thickness wise, and 19mm tape works fine BTW) but it also gives you freedom to use a different thickness rim tape if the tyres you want to use have an unusual (slack or tight) fit to them.

cheers

[Oxford_Guy]

one thing that  is worth bearing in mind is that the Open Pro C rim is designed to use a ~0.6mm thick rim tape. This means velox tape is 'correct' (thickness wise, and 19mm tape works fine BTW) but it also gives you freedom to use a different thickness rim tape if the tyres you want to use have an unusual (slack or tight) fit to them.

Good point. Assuming the bike is ready for the summer, think will be putting Veloflex Master 25 tyres on the rims, at least initially, I don't know how tight a fit these will be.

[giropaul]

Whatever tape you eventually decide upon, for latex tubes plenty of talc is key to success.

[Oxford_Guy]

Whatever tape you eventually decide upon, for latex tubes plenty of talc is key to success.

The latex tubes I was thinking of using (Vittoria or Silca) seem to come pre-talced, are you suggesting more talc would be needed?

[giropaul]

Whatever tape you eventually decide upon, for latex tubes plenty of talc is key to success.

The latex tubes I was thinking of using (Vittoria or Silca) seem to come pre-talced, are you suggesting more talc would be needed?

Yes - in fact I use it in all my tyres whatever the tube - the scent you prefer is optional of course

[gonzo]

I've been using Velox rim tape on open pro rims with latex for nearly 10 years. The only time I didn't was when someone built me some wheels and fitted the tyres. Both flatted within a month because they used something else (that never happens apparently). Went back to Velox and I have no issues now.