Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: Ian gaggiaport on 20 December, 2019, 04:43:10 pm
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Hello all
I'm looking for the cheapest and least complicated way of powering a power bank from my Shimano dynamo.
This is for my summer touring.
So I'm not needing to power a headlamp.
I just need to keep my phone and camera topped up when I can't always access mains power.
Looking forward to your suggestions.
Ian
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I used an e-werk (https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/dynamos/busch-muller-ewerk/ (https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/dynamos/busch-muller-ewerk/)) back when I needed to do such things. It doesn't do a bad job, but nothing compares to plugging into the grid somewhere.
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I use a USB-Werk. But tbh, the yield is pretty poor. You're only getting 2wh for every hour your riding.
Now You can get large power banks that can charge fast, for relatively low costs, My 100wh Anker pack fully charges in ~6.5 hours. Finding a cafe/bar/restaurant with a power socket and putting in 15-20w while you eat lunch is far superior to the drag your dynamo will be constantly adding while you move.
You can carry a lot of lithium for the weight of a dynamo. Your power budget doesn't seem very demanding.
J
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I agree with QG. Even ignoring weight and drag, the number of hours of riding on a casual summer tour might not be enough to make much headway on a decent sized power bank. and you'll be looking for a mains socket anyway.
(if you are planning to be properly off grid somewhere sunny, solar power might make more sense)
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Given summer, and depending on how much time you're actually going to spend actually riding, and whether you're able to keep it pointing in the direction on the sun[1], solar (say a 15W panel) can outperform dynamo power. Most of my cycle camping over the last couple of years has been to ALC meets, where a solar panel is more useful than an E-Werk (even if I go for a day ride, I can leave the panel and powerbank doing its thing back at camp). Of course, dynamos aren't weather dependent.
As quixoticgeek says, it's hard to beat some quality time spent with a mains socket. Get a decent power bank that can charge at a high rate (eg. using QC3) and a compatible charger, and you can potentially make do with electrons scavenged from cafes and so on.
[1] Leaning against a tent at the optimum angle and repositioned every couple of hours beats lying flat on the ground, which beats strapped over your panniers.
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Compatible charger? Meaning what? How do you know? Well, not you, how would those less steeped in the way of the electron know? Those who thought all USB chargers were alike in their charging rate (if it's even rate we're talking about?).
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Standard USB is 5 volts and limited to about 2.5 amps, so 5*2.5 = 12.5 watts, which given even a small-ish power bank can be 40Wh, means it takes 3-4 hours for a full charge.
The way round this is to increase the volts, since increasing amps makes things melty. There are two common systems for doing this - QuickCharge 3 (which uses a standard USB connector) and USB PD (which uses the newfangled USB C connector). If both devices are compatible with one of these two systems, and both support the same higher voltage, *and* you have the right cable, then they can get negotiate using a higher voltage, get more watts over the wire and therefore charge quicker.
Sadly checking which gear is compatible requires a lot of squinting at spec sheets, trusting dubious manufacturer claims and mostly trying it out and hoping for the best.
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Compatible charger? Meaning what? How do you know? Well, not you, how would those less steeped in the way of the electron know? Those who thought all USB chargers were alike in their charging rate (if it's even rate we're talking about?).
To charge a QC3 compatible thing (phone, powerbank, whatever) at QC3 speeds[1], you need a QC3 capable charger. There's also Power Delivery (PD), because The Great Thing About Standards™ applies. There are logos to befuddle the user and, particularly in the case of phones and fondleslabs, proprietary branding for the technology (eg. Motorola Turbopower is just another name for QC3).
There are also powerbanks that can charge at normal[2] USB voltage and current from more than one USB plug at the same time, which is a nasty but potentially useful bodge (if you have a high-power multi-output charger), and others that take the easy (for the designer) option and charge from some non-USB-compatible wall-wart via a traditional DC jack. Works fine, but less ideal for touring, as you can't then use the same wall-wart to power your other USB stuff, or obtain an appropriate wall-wart for the sockets used by FOREIGNS in ABROAD, rather than mucking about with adaptors.
Also note that just because a powerbank supports QC3 or PD on an output, doesn't mean it does so on the input. For a typical touring cyclist, the speed at which your phone can charge from your powerbank is largely irrelevant; the important thing is how fast the powerbank can charge during your cafe stop.
When I tried to buy one (some time ago now), QC3 compatible mains chargers in a folding BS1363 form-factor were surprisingly hard to come by. I ended up with an expensive Sony one in order to get a slidy-inny earth pin. The situation may have improved.
[1] Both QCn and PD work by having enough intelligence at both ends to enable the device to negotiate with the charger to raise the voltage above the normal USB spec, delivering more power and reducing cable losses.
[2] For arbitrary values of normal.
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There are also powerbanks that can charge at normal[2] USB voltage and current from more than one USB plug at the same time, which is a nasty but potentially useful bodge (if you have a high-power multi-output charger)
This is the approach I use, I have a power bank with 2 inputs, meaning I can charge it at 4A, so 20W. (https://amzn.to/2G64YZu).
I also have a number of different USB wall warts with varying numbers of outputs. As most of my use case is on the continent, I have a RAV Power 40w unit, that can do 2.4w max per channel, for a total of 40w across all 3. I plug the anker into this, and it gives me 2 spare ports for wahoo + phone. They don't weigh much and I have been known to carry 2 of them (powerbank (2 ports), phone, wahoo, inreach+, camera, light, spare light battery), depending on how little time I am planning to spend in a hotel at any given time. For in the UK I have https://amzn.to/2EBe1iv as well as a 4 port that isn't available anymore. Saves needing to find a charger in the form factor you want, which supports the protocol you need. Also means if you lose it you can pick up any old usb wall wart from a gas station.
J
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I had a look at my powerbank and couldn't see any QC3 marking, so probably not relevant for me. Though most of the stuff that's not numbers is Chinese characters. But there is a very useful pictogram telling me not to burn it. I have noticed it does seem to charge faster from some chargers than others, but that must be for some other reason.
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I had a look at my powerbank and couldn't see any QC3 marking, so probably not relevant for me. Though most of the stuff that's not numbers is Chinese characters. But there is a very useful pictogram telling me not to burn it. I have noticed it does seem to charge faster from some chargers than others, but that must be for some other reason.
Probably means that the power source is better quality.
There are an awful lot of crap power banks on the market. It really is an area where paying a little bit more for a named brand can be worth while. Tho one of the best units I have is sold by IKEA. The IKEA unit does tell me it's 36wh.
J
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I have noticed it does seem to charge faster from some chargers than others, but that must be for some other reason.
If you have even a passing interest in this sort of thing, you can do a lot worse than invest in one of the many basic USB power meters that are available on AliExpress/eBay and similar for a couple of quid. It won't necessarily help you with the 'why', but it can be useful to simply determine which combinations of devices/chargers/cables work well and which are unexpectedly hopeless. The slightly better ones will keep a running total of mAh, so you can use them to measure the real-world capacity of a powerbank, or how much it takes to fill your phone or whatever.
(If you're being really fancy, the Ruideng (https://rdtech.aliexpress.com/store/923042) ones are pretty good. I've got a UM25C, which can work out what sort of signalling voodoo is going on on the data lines, as well as making the usual measurements.)
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I had a look at my powerbank and couldn't see any QC3 marking, so probably not relevant for me. Though most of the stuff that's not numbers is Chinese characters. But there is a very useful pictogram telling me not to burn it. I have noticed it does seem to charge faster from some chargers than others, but that must be for some other reason.
Probably means that the power source is better quality.
There are an awful lot of crap power banks on the market. It really is an area where paying a little bit more for a named brand can be worth while. Tho one of the best units I have is sold by IKEA. The IKEA unit does tell me it's 36wh.
J
Confused, sorry. What probably means it's better quality? Chinese characters?
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I had a look at my powerbank and couldn't see any QC3 marking, so probably not relevant for me. Though most of the stuff that's not numbers is Chinese characters. But there is a very useful pictogram telling me not to burn it. I have noticed it does seem to charge faster from some chargers than others, but that must be for some other reason.
Probably means that the power source is better quality.
There are an awful lot of crap power banks on the market. It really is an area where paying a little bit more for a named brand can be worth while. Tho one of the best units I have is sold by IKEA. The IKEA unit does tell me it's 36wh.
J
Confused, sorry. What probably means it's better quality? Chinese characters?
The device you are charging the power bank from being better quality. Rather than the powerbank itself.
Bear in mind that lithium batteries are not a 100% safe product, and that they aren't unknown for their ability to spontaneously combust. Better quality tends to reduce this risk. A named brand device is likely to be a lower risk.
J
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Ah, yes, okay. You did say power source. Sorry and thanks and all.
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Thanks for the replies
I surmise that I really need a Solar charger
I usually manage to scavenge some mains power. I was caught out a few times on the last tour, especially if I was using the phone camera, and it was a stress not letting people know I was safe.
cheers
ian
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While we're on the sparky chat, can anyone recommend a fast charging powerbank? My OnePlus phone can go from 0% to 100% in a out 40 minutes, I hoped there might be a powerbank that has a similar performance. I have a good powerbank but it doesn't charge especially quickly and I expect I'll want to replace it within a few years.
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While we're on the sparky chat, can anyone recommend a fast charging powerbank? My OnePlus phone can go from 0% to 100% in a out 40 minutes, I hoped there might be a powerbank that has a similar performance. I have a good powerbank but it doesn't charge especially quickly and I expect I'll want to replace it within a few years.
Yes, the Anker one I link to above.
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I tend not to bother trying to charge stuff from the dynamo on tour anymore. I just use it to power my GPS and lights if I need them. I've got so much capacity now that even if I don't get a sniff of mains power for a few days, I've still got enough juice. Then when I do find power, I charge the lot in one go:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/1767/29111140778_722807581f_z.jpg)
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I have one of these wending it's way to me: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Poweradd-20000mAh-Delivery-Compatible-Tablets-Black/dp/B07K1XTXRS/ref=dp_ob_title_wld (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Poweradd-20000mAh-Delivery-Compatible-Tablets-Black/dp/B07K1XTXRS/ref=dp_ob_title_wld) I've had good performance from an earlier Poweradd so went with them again but with added USB-C and PD charging goodness. My aim is to reserve my dynohub for powering lights. The new Igaro D2 looks neat but I'm not sure I'd need it even on something like PBP or LEL.
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Yes, the Anker one I link to above.
cheers that looks like the mutt's
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Yes, the Anker one I link to above.
cheers that looks like the mutt's
Been some other recs for power banks on another forum. I have the old gen ankers (not the fast charge versions) and will upgrade with the ankers again on the grounds that they have been so robust. Grippy shape, compact and survived bike pack races. The light wheel indicator is really useful just need them to charge faster!
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Been some other recs for power banks on another forum. I have the old gen ankers (not the fast charge versions) and will upgrade with the ankers again on the grounds that they have been so robust. Grippy shape, compact and survived bike pack races. The light wheel indicator is really useful just need them to charge faster!
I have some 3-4 yo ankers and a couple of other brands. I find they are fine for tcr-type use. They charge overnight when I'm in a hotel. I would never bother trying to to them up in a cafe.
I use 4 x 10 Ah and find they can keep me going for 3-5 days comfortably, and longer at a pinch of I mix in a few AAs.
Quicker charging would be good but I can manage fine with that set up.
What sizes do you have and what is your issue with them?
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Been some other recs for power banks on another forum. I have the old gen ankers (not the fast charge versions) and will upgrade with the ankers again on the grounds that they have been so robust. Grippy shape, compact and survived bike pack races. The light wheel indicator is really useful just need them to charge faster!
I have some 3-4 yo ankers and a couple of other brands. I find they are fine for tcr-type use. They charge overnight when I'm in a hotel. I would never bother trying to to them up in a cafe.
I use 4 x 10 Ah and find they can keep me going for 3-5 days comfortably, and longer at a pinch of I mix in a few AAs.
Quicker charging would be good but I can manage fine with that set up.
What sizes do you have and what is your issue with them?
I have 3 x 10Ah Frank. I wasn't getting full charge on the overnight stops though (4 hours or there about) It could be that I was using crap cables and a sub par "wall wart"
Sometimes I'd wake up and see only a couple of additional dots on the power wheel indicator and feel uneasy.
It was on the 4 odd nights playing catchup riding through the night that the power banks weren't keeping up.
I had couple of wall warts, one a triple, but as Im sure you know one socket in the room isn't unheard of. Set the alarm a couple of times to swap things around.
My phone (iPhone 7 plus) probably uses a lot of power and I do take a lot of photos. 7's are not fast charge capable. Rather not go to the expense of changing out a perfectly serviceable phone.
I had 4 usb light sticks on the bike too (2 on at any given time) I keep the back light on the wahoo at night.
I never ran out of juice but got v low, and thats when it gets on your mind.
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You need a decent charger, amazon ratings should steer you towards something serviceable, which should put out 1.5 - 2 amps so they charge over night. But the quickest wins would be to take a 4th power bank, and use less power (taking photos =faffing!)
EDIT from 2 minutes searching here are a couple of chargers which claim to be good for at least 2A x 4:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Syncwire-Charger-Upgraded-Multiple-Interchangeable-White/dp/B07Q2SVG31/ref=sr_1_10?crid=19RZ2EFXLB3RO&keywords=usb+charger+4+port&qid=1577247917&sprefix=usb+char%2Caps%2C169&sr=8-10
(https://www.amazon.co.uk/Syncwire-Charger-Upgraded-Multiple-Interchangeable-White/dp/B07Q2SVG31/ref=sr_1_10?crid=19RZ2EFXLB3RO&keywords=usb+charger+4+port&qid=1577247917&sprefix=usb+char%2Caps%2C169&sr=8-10)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0773JG24W/ref=vp_d_pb_TIER1_cmlr_lp_B07Q2SVG31_pd?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0773JG24W&pd_rd_w=LCwGd&pf_rd_p=a5181cc2-2759-4854-b0ca-328b7b655681&pf_rd_r=3697e419-fda6-4341-9442-a923566e4449&pd_rd_r=3697e419-fda6-4341-9442-a923566e4449&pd_rd_wg=ttJeg (https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0773JG24W/ref=vp_d_pb_TIER1_cmlr_lp_B07Q2SVG31_pd?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0773JG24W&pd_rd_w=LCwGd&pf_rd_p=a5181cc2-2759-4854-b0ca-328b7b655681&pf_rd_r=3697e419-fda6-4341-9442-a923566e4449&pd_rd_r=3697e419-fda6-4341-9442-a923566e4449&pd_rd_wg=ttJeg)
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10000 mAh is a nominal 37 watt hours, so to charge in 4 hours you need around 10 watts, which is about 2 amps. If you’re charging 3 at once you need 6 amps. Multi port chargers can’t always put out that many amps at once on all ports.
As Kim mentions it’s worth getting one of those £3 USB doctors to see what combo of charger/cable/power bank gets the best charging rate (amps/watts). There can be huge differences.
One tip for hotel rooms is the TV almost always has a USB port on the side. Throw a towel over it to block out the light.
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The calculation can be put even more simply: to charge 10Ah in 5 hours you need 2A
I put a couple of links in the previous message but, flicking through the search results on Amazon, there are lots of chargers which claim to offer 2A or more per port:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=usb+charger+4+port&crid=19RZ2EFXLB3RO&sprefix=usb+char%2Caps%2C169&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_8 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=usb+charger+4+port&crid=19RZ2EFXLB3RO&sprefix=usb+char%2Caps%2C169&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_8)
They may not all deliver, but the two that I have both do a 10Ah battery within 5 hours, which is what matters.
Like any piece of kit, you would want to test it beforehand to make sure that it does what you need it to do!
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Thanks for the tips guys, much appreciated. Happy Christmas too.
The thing I'm really taking away from this is that not all chargers are as efficient. The 3 socket one I picked up at the local Brico is likely naff.
I'll test some in the new year.
I hear you on the photos too Frank :-) It didn't help matters when more than once I hastily returned my phone into the racing pocket after taking a couple of shots with it still on.
There was a happy ending to the excess of photos though as Yan H. saw a couple I posted on instgram during the race and asked me to write an article for BQ.
He generously paid me for the piece which ultimately ended up going right back with him to buy some of his bicycle components.
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(taking photos =faffing!)
Not necessarily. I have a Olympus TG5 that I keep in the pocket of my Jersey, I take it out, snap 2-3 photos, and put it away again, no need to even stop pedalling.
Thanks for the tips guys, much appreciated. Happy Christmas too.
The thing I'm really taking away from this is that not all chargers are as efficient. The 3 socket one I picked up at the local Brico is likely naff.
You generally get what you pay for. It's worth spending a little extra for something that works well. I'm really pleased bwith the RAV power 40w unit I have. If you are planning on traveling abroad, consider getting one with the correct plug in it, UK to EU converters are stupidly bulky. Amazon.de will ship most of their chargers to the UK. I have different charger units depending on country.
J
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Thanks QG. I'll be based in, well.....Morbihan from June for a few months so will pick some up at that end.
Application in for TCR again so fingers crossed they get plenty of real time use heading South and East in July.
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I have a 7 port, 60Watt Bose charger, claims a max of 2.4A per port. Can't find a current link but there are plenty similar out there.
Seems to perform as stated and is not much slower than my QC3 charger.
A useful feature that led to me choosing it is that it takes a standard figure 8 mains lead and so travel can be dealt with by buying a suitably plugged replacement lead, this is tidier, safer and avoids the steric hindrance that often occurs with adapters, particularly in hotels. Some others come with sizable wallwarts which I could see causing all sorts of problems.
Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
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I have a 7 port, 60Watt Bose charger, claims a max of 2.4A per port. Can't find a current link but there are plenty similar out there.
Seems to perform as stated and is not much slower than my QC3 charger.
A useful feature that led to me choosing it is that it takes a standard figure 8 mains lead and so travel can be dealt with by buying a suitably plugged replacement lead, this is tidier, safer and avoids the steric hindrance that often occurs with adapters, particularly in hotels. Some others come with sizable wallwarts which I could see causing all sorts of problems.
What's the weight of the Device like? How bulky is it with the cable?
I like the flexibility idea, but the bulk and yet another cable put me off...
J
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The most compact option is to find something with an integrated two pin European plug which can also be used in UK sockets with appropriate ingenuity. Not that I recommend doing this, of course.
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The most compact option is to find something with an integrated two pin European plug which can also be used in UK sockets with appropriate ingenuity. Not that I recommend doing this, of course.
Best to use non-conductive ingenuity if it's not a socket you trust...
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I have a 7 port, 60Watt Bose charger, claims a max of 2.4A per port. Can't find a current link but there are plenty similar out there.
Seems to perform as stated and is not much slower than my QC3 charger.
A useful feature that led to me choosing it is that it takes a standard figure 8 mains lead and so travel can be dealt with by buying a suitably plugged replacement lead, this is tidier, safer and avoids the steric hindrance that often occurs with adapters, particularly in hotels. Some others come with sizable wallwarts which I could see causing all sorts of problems.
What's the weight of the Device like? How bulky is it with the cable?
I like the flexibility idea, but the bulk and yet another cable put me off...
J
Charger is not much bigger in plan than my phone and USB port thick, I have a long mains cable and short usb cables, so total length of cables is not excessive.
Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
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The most compact option is to find something with an integrated two pin European plug which can also be used in UK sockets with appropriate ingenuity. Not that I recommend doing this, of course.
Best to use non-conductive ingenuity if it's not a socket you trust...
I have lived to tell a tale about conductive ingenuity that involves early speech, fashion accessories and digital combustion.
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Rechecked, charger unit is considerably smaller in plan than my phone
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This is mine although not available it gives sizes etc
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00LU9GQV2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_8HFcEb63YCEND
Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
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So many different options. So much confusing techy data. ???
I wish things could be as simple as peddling!
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This is mine although not available it gives sizes etc
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00LU9GQV2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_8HFcEb63YCEND
I have one of these, tho I left it in the UK. It's heavier, and bulkier than my EU plugged wallwart.
I'll take a photo when back at the hotel...
J
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I've been using an earlier version of one of these for some years, which has C7 input. Much better than straight plug in as sometimes those are too heavy to stay in and, as has been said, changing to alternate socket type is simple. Interestingly the one I have doesn't support QC, but appears to charge much faster than other non-QC chargers, where the connected device supports higher current. Never had an issue with heating, either. This suggests that the "Smart ID" moniker actually has some smarts behind it.
https://www.iclever.com/products/iclever-boostcube-60w-6-port-usb-wall-charger
This current version looks hard to source, tbh.