Play in front hub

[Frank9755]

While checking my bike the other day I noticed that there was a couple of mm of sideways play in my front wheel.  The rim, while in the bike with the QR tightened normally, moves a couple of mm sideways.  It's a Dura Ace hub.

I have never attempted to service a hub so have no knowledge, but assume this shouldn't happen.  Is it a simple case of tightening the hub up, or should it be opened up and investigated? 

The hub is 4.5 years old and has done a good few miles. 

[Tim Hall]

If it hasn't been touched in that time I'd open it up, clean the old grease out and most likely replace the balls (I'm assuming it's a cup and cone job). Inspect the cups and cones for pitting. Cones should be available as replacement its but I beilieve DuraAce (in common with other Shimano hubs) doesn't have replaceable cups.

[Hot Flatus]

https://youtu.be/90XxoPHWbI4

[Brucey]

2mm at the rim means a few hundred microns clearance in the bearings. This is 'a lot' and whilst it might just mean the bearing has gone out of adjustment, it is also quite likely that all is not well inside. If hubs are run this slack then it often causes damage to the seals, but if the seal lips ran dry, they could have worn, let water into the hub, and this caused the bearing wear. All rather chicken and eggish.

Cup and cone hubs are designed to be overhauled, so you should overhaul this one.

When you are done, the correct adjustment is a little free play in the bearing which just disappears when the QR is used to secure the wheel in the frame.

cheers

[Frank9755]

Thanks.  I have just dropped them off to be serviced. 

I was bualking at the idea of going to the LBS, as it is not that L, but discovered that I had a wheelbuilder 5 minutes walk from me, so he is going to do it. 

[Brucey]

if they come back adjusted properly (as per above) then I shall be amazed.

cheers

[Frank9755]

Sure, it's great to do everything oneself but I spend too much time messing around with bikes and learning how to do hubs isn't my priority.  So it was either get him to do it, or just keep riding them and replace when they get grindy. 

I could have managed to get some spanners and just tighten them up, but the view was they needed a service, and that means getting someone else to do it.

[Brucey]

easy DIY job.

cheers

[Frank9755]

Is it easy? 

I do most jobs myself but have always been a bit scared of taking on a hub, based on the descriptions I've read of ball bearings flying everywhere.

[hubner]

You can put a piece of cloth under the hub so that if any balls do fall out, they won't bounce away and get lost.

Gloves mean you won't get your hands dirty.

The most fiddly bit is adjusting the cones.

[Frank9755]

Too late now.  I might have a go next time.

[rogerzilla]

Scuzzy answer for very tiny amounts of play: make the QR tighter.  The tightness of the QR needs to be related to the play in the hub when out of the frame.  On a bike with expected QR slippage issues, like chromed horizontal dropouts, that QR needs to be tight. This means a bit more slack in the bearings before the wheel is fitted, or they will end up too tight.  There is still no play when the wheel is installed.

A good steel QR compresses the axle quite a bit.

[quixoticgeek]

Is it easy? 

I do most jobs myself but have always been a bit scared of taking on a hub, based on the descriptions I've read of ball bearings flying everywhere.

It's so easy, even I can do it...

J

[robgul]

You can put a piece of cloth under the hub so that if any balls do fall out, they won't bounce away and get lost.

Gloves mean you won't get your hands dirty.

The most fiddly bit is adjusting the cones.

Better still is to fish the balls out with a magnet (the Park Tool probe set has VERY STRONG magnets) - then put them in a tray of some sort [I have a couple of old roastng trays in my workshop for holding small parts whilst servicing stuff]

Hub servicing is pretty simple but does have quite a bit of trial and error to get the cones at the correct setting ... and you really need an axle clamp fitted in the vice.

Rob

[Frank9755]

Hmm - you're making it sound a bit harder now.  This is what put me off!

[rogerzilla]

I avoid magnets because they can magnetise the balls, meaning they attract and retain metal wear particles.  Normally, a ball bearing sweeps particles aside nicely.

[quixoticgeek]

I avoid magnets because they can magnetise the balls, meaning they attract and retain metal wear particles.  Normally, a ball bearing sweeps particles aside nicely.

Agreed. A magnet should only be used for retrieving the ball from under the sofa where it rolled and you can't reach it without...

Hmm - you're making it sound a bit harder now.  This is what put me off!

It really is simple. You need some thin spanners, the balls, and some grease, that's it. It helps to have tweezers, but they are optional.

Plenty of guides on gootube for how to do it.

It really is so simple even I can do it, and as we all know, the popular forum opinion is that I'm a complete bloody idiot.

J

[Kim]

Is it easy?

The nth time, once you've got the hang of it.

The first time is a somewhat different proposition, and will likely result in the discovery that you haven't got the right tools or materials, and take much longer, on account of the amount of carefulling required.

I consider that a reasonable investment.  YMMV.

[Tim Hall]

It really is so simple even I can do it, and as we all know, the popular forum opinion is that I'm a complete bloody idiot.

J

The hell you say. (ref the second part of your sentence. I'm in strong agreement with the first.)

[mzjo]

It really is so simple even I can do it, and as we all know, the popular forum opinion is that I'm a complete bloody idiot.

J

The hell you say. (ref the second part of your sentence. I'm in strong agreement with the first.)

Agreed. Anyone who takes TRP Spyres apart and repairs and rebuilds them (so that they actually work, even) deserves to be called genius, definitely not idiot.

My way for taking things with ball bearings, that could escape, apart was to take off the cone from one side and then invert the whole assembly in a paper bag. Remove the axle while all is inside the bag and you can catch all the balls fairly easily. The superior technique involves rinsing the hub with degreaser beforehand so that there are no balls sticking to the grease when you take the rest of the hub away from the bag. This can also be done with the hub still in the wheel but then it is a case of holding the wheel over the mouth of the bag. I learnt to do this taking Cyclo screw-on freewheels apart nearly half a century ago (when I was in my teens and just starting to mess about with bike mechanicals).

[Frank9755]

The wheelbuilder has just come back and said some pitting in one of the cones and a small crack in a cup.  Being DuraAce, the individual parts aren't available separately so it needs a new axle unit.  I'm definitely pleased I didn't attempt it myself!

[rogerzilla]

Is the cup available?  I thought they were non-replaceable in Shimano hubs.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

The cups can be replaced but weren't available as a spare part whenever I've tried to get Shimano cups. They always had to be removed from other hubs.

[quixoticgeek]

The cups can be replaced but weren't available as a spare part whenever I've tried to get Shimano cups. They always had to be removed from other hubs.

I find it's usually cheaper to buy the same hub again, and pull the bits out, rather than buy the spare parts. Does leave you with a small pile of spare hub shells that are next to useless. But cheaper than paying a wheel builder to swap the hubs over.

Obviously it depends how much you end up needing to replace... but that's how it went for my rear hub last time.

J

[Brucey]

The wheelbuilder has just come back and said some pitting in one of the cones and a small crack in a cup.  Being DuraAce, the individual parts aren't available separately so it needs a new axle unit.  I'm definitely pleased I didn't attempt it myself!

IMHO you should be disappointed that you didn't attempt it before….

A new hub and a rebuild is what is likely to be the next suggestion....?

However unless the damage is severe then the hub might well rumble on for years without issue; it depends how bad the damage actually is.

cheers