Author Topic: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank  (Read 30609 times)

mattc

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #225 on: 23 December, 2019, 11:25:11 am »
My understanding is that the MOAR ke, the more potential for injury and the greater the braking distance...
Having a low vehicle means that injuries tend to be less, or to more easily fixed parts of the body, which favours the lower and usually lighter cars, as well as the reduction in kinetic energy.

The kinetic energy makes less difference when there is loads of it. A car isn't slowed much when it hits a pedestrian, so having more energy makes little difference. The height is the big deal, as it alters how fast energy is transferred to the pedestrian, so what force is applied.

Braking distance isn't much affected by the car mass, as the more mass, the more weight so more friction is available, given the all post 2004 cars have ABS, so can maximise the friction on all the wheels. Braking distance goes up as the square of speed, so in that way the kinetic energy makes a big difference.
Makes sense to me. (but then I've only got a physics degree, what do I know ... )
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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #226 on: 23 December, 2019, 05:37:33 pm »
Another big reason for their popularity in the US was their being marketed with the implication that you need an SUV to be a 'man', or somesuch nonsense.
Rust never sleeps

Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #227 on: 23 December, 2019, 05:55:44 pm »
Another big reason for their popularity in the US was their being marketed with the implication that you need an SUV to be a 'man', or somesuch nonsense.
I'd say that was pick-ups rather than a true SUV.  When I lived there a work mate had a big pick-up that did less than 10mpg.  I asked him "why?"  He said that as a householder he needed to be able to carry sheets of sheetrock walling about.  I asked when he had needed to do that. The answer came back "not yet, but I might".

Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #228 on: 23 December, 2019, 05:59:49 pm »
Ah, you're right. Pick-ups, but I can see where having a stack of them on the road would lead not quite so influenceable people to choosing to buy something equally huuuuuge.
Rust never sleeps

fuzzy

Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #229 on: 29 December, 2019, 10:12:14 am »
Another big reason for their popularity in the US was their being marketed with the implication that you need an SUV to be a 'man', or somesuch nonsense.

Don't expect sensible reasoning from the USA. I mean, look at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, DC.........

Mr Larrington

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #230 on: 29 December, 2019, 02:05:18 pm »
On my one and only visit to DC, mind, I was surprised at how titchy the White House is compared with Missis Kwin's abode in London's famous London :D
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ian

Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #231 on: 02 January, 2020, 04:00:09 pm »
Yes, but the White House goes deep down underground, down to the caverns of the Illuminati and, of course, the ZOG. They're currently building a bigger fence around it, presumably to keep Donald either in or out.

I read the other day that BMW now have a model painted in Vantablack (basically the blackest, non-reflective pigment in scalable production, absorbs of 99.965% of incident light). Notwithstanding it's probably a marketing gimmick and they apparently had to adulterate the paint to generate a degree of reflectivity (now only ~98%), that seems genius-level stupid.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #232 on: 02 January, 2020, 04:03:16 pm »
Yes, but the White House goes deep down underground, down to the caverns of the Illuminati and, of course, the ZOG. They're currently building a bigger fence around it, presumably to keep Donald either in or out.
Or for Corbyn to sit on?
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ElyDave

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #233 on: 04 January, 2020, 08:07:52 am »
Yes, but the White House goes deep down underground, down to the caverns of the Illuminati and, of course, the ZOG. They're currently building a bigger fence around it, presumably to keep Donald either in or out.

I read the other day that BMW now have a model painted in Vantablack (basically the blackest, non-reflective pigment in scalable production, absorbs of 99.965% of incident light). Notwithstanding it's probably a marketing gimmick and they apparently had to adulterate the paint to generate a degree of reflectivity (now only ~98%), that seems genius-level stupid.

Is that what Hotblack Desiato used?
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Mr Larrington

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #234 on: 04 January, 2020, 01:35:34 pm »
It's like, how much more black could this be?  And the answer is none.  None more black!

Oh...
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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #235 on: 04 January, 2020, 04:57:23 pm »
It's like, how much more black could this be?  And the answer is none.  None more black!

Oh...

0.035% or more accurately (1/0.99965-1)%, but it comes to pretty much the same thing - not much blacker

Why did they add reflectivity?

Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #236 on: 04 January, 2020, 05:01:01 pm »
Or I suppose you could look at the amount of light reflected and then you cna go much darker

https://www.dezeen.com/2019/09/24/blackest-black-mit-material-news-vantablack/

10 times blacker

I suppose people might fall over it in the dark...

ian

Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #237 on: 06 January, 2020, 10:03:30 am »
It's like, how much more black could this be?  And the answer is none.  None more black!

Oh...

0.035% or more accurately (1/0.99965-1)%, but it comes to pretty much the same thing - not much blacker

Why did they add reflectivity?

I'd like to say 'road safety' but I expect to reduce the chances of people driving into it when it's parked.

fuzzy

Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #238 on: 06 January, 2020, 11:22:13 pm »
If you study video of counter terror units in action, you will see that they are generally dressed in shades of grey or green. Black was used by the likes of the SAS for a while until it was realised that black shows up better at night than grey. Night isn't truly dark so, to dark adapted eyes, the total absence of colour that black becomes at night is easier to spot.

Therefore, driving a blacker than black car is a safety feature. Or something.

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #239 on: 06 January, 2020, 11:26:04 pm »
That is mentioned in one of the later books in the Swallows & Amazons series. Something about your eyes learning to detect the blacker blackness that is an enemy ship at night. Although battleships are grey not black. Which must be so they don't show up at night.
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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #240 on: 07 January, 2020, 09:19:28 am »
Would a properly non-reflective be effective for shape camouflage - as gets used to make it hard to photograph new body shapes? Actual camo tends to attract attention, in a way that black doesn't.

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ian

Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #241 on: 07 January, 2020, 09:29:09 am »
Camouflage works against a background and not necessarily by looking like that background (wildcats, for instance, aren't green and brown) but by breaking up or confusing visual cues.

Urban streets are most characterised, after dark, by street lights and various forms of bright illumination. I doubt having a nearly completely absorbent vehicle is a bright idea. The drivers should, of course, be forced to wrap their vehicles in hi-viz after dark.

Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #242 on: 07 January, 2020, 11:48:08 am »
That is mentioned in one of the later books in the Swallows & Amazons series. Something about your eyes learning to detect the blacker blackness that is an enemy ship at night. Although battleships are grey not black. Which must be so they don't show up at night.

I believe the the Japanese navy did a major study between the wars that showed that all black ships were fairly visible at night. In any case naval camo is less about making the ship invisible (hard to hide a battleship that's 750 feet long weighs 40000 tons and is probably belching black smoke from its funnels) more about breaking up the outline to stop the enemy getting the accurate estimation of speed course and range that's necessary to be able to drop a shell on you.
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quixoticgeek

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #243 on: 07 January, 2020, 01:14:43 pm »
I believe the the Japanese navy did a major study between the wars that showed that all black ships were fairly visible at night. In any case naval camo is less about making the ship invisible (hard to hide a battleship that's 750 feet long weighs 40000 tons and is probably belching black smoke from its funnels) more about breaking up the outline to stop the enemy getting the accurate estimation of speed course and range that's necessary to be able to drop a shell on you.

You say that, I once failed to find a 15000 ton battleship while following a piece of string that was attached to it...

J
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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #244 on: 07 January, 2020, 10:56:39 pm »
I believe the the Japanese navy did a major study between the wars that showed that all black ships were fairly visible at night. In any case naval camo is less about making the ship invisible (hard to hide a battleship that's 750 feet long weighs 40000 tons and is probably belching black smoke from its funnels) more about breaking up the outline to stop the enemy getting the accurate estimation of speed course and range that's necessary to be able to drop a shell on you.

You say that, I once failed to find a 15000 ton battleship while following a piece of string that was attached to it...

J

If it was only 15,000 tons QG, I doubt it was a battleship. Battlecruiser maybe ?  ;)


fuzzy

Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #245 on: 07 January, 2020, 11:03:53 pm »
The art of concealment is to work on SSSSM- Shape, Shine, Shadow, Shilouette and Movement.

Sticking bits of foliage in your combat helmet, webbing or over your Main Battle Tank is as much about breaking up the shape of the thing to be concealed as making it blend in to the background. Camo nets with lots of scrim, snipers ghillie suits, scrim nets over heads and shoulders, disruptive paint pattern or uniform patter are also to disguise shape

Camouflage cream/ paint for combatants and hessian over glass is to reduce shine (Regimental Seargeant Majors go apeshit if you have mucky boots on parade. Likewise, they go absofuckinglutley ballistic if your APC is gleaming and shiny on the battlefield. You can't win against a proper RSM).

Hessian rolls on vehicles that are deployed to hang down to the ground over wheel arches and between wheels or skirts that conceal the area between the top of tank tracks and the chassis are to hide areas of unnaturaly shaped shadow.

Not driving or walking along ridge lines, crossing ridge lines/ hill tops in a standing position etc are to reduce being shilouetted against the sky.

Reduced movement reduces the chance of detection. Alien stillness does so as well. A bush moving in an otherwise still environment will likely be investigated as a potential fidgety squaddie. A completely static area in an otherwise windblown woodline will likewise be investigated (or subjected to probing fire) as a possible enemy.

There is a lot of thought and skill that goes into being a Rough, Tough, Hard to Bluff, Lean, Mean Fighting Machine.

Kim

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #246 on: 08 January, 2020, 12:07:37 am »
Camouflage works against a background and not necessarily by looking like that background (wildcats, for instance, aren't green and brown) but by breaking up or confusing visual cues.

It's all just $generic_poo_colour to us dichromats, which covers most prey animals...

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rogerzilla

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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #248 on: 12 January, 2020, 11:15:21 am »
10mpg doesn't sound that bad for a Hummer, assuming those are the 0.8-sized US gallons.   With my annual mileage, that would only be £500/year on petrol.  I'm not sure one would fit on the drive, though, let alone down the road when all the morons have parked opposite each other on care home visiting day.
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Re: The Rise (and Fall) of the Suburban Main Battle Tank
« Reply #249 on: 12 January, 2020, 12:27:46 pm »
10mpg doesn't sound that bad for a Hummer, assuming those are the 0.8-sized US gallons.   With my annual mileage, that would only be £500/year on petrol.  I'm not sure one would fit on the drive, though, let alone down the road when all the morons have parked opposite each other on care home visiting day.
just fit some bull bars, you would get through  (or over the top). As for parking, you wouldn't need a drive, just abandon it on someone elses garden; you have to get into the mindset of a suburban battle tank driver. its far from normal